/vr/ - Retro Games

>>5216302
Saturn's disgusting architecture etc

Why can't the PS3 play PS2 games? Probably price or something.

>the Atari 7800 is backwards compatible with the Atari 2800

Is Sega even trying?

Isn't the DS the most backward compatible device ever? Played 3 fucking generations of games prior to it with GB, GBC, & GBA.

>>5216353
Windows PC

>>5216353
For a handheld, yes. For home console that goes to WiiU though. Native GC and Wii hardware. No partial emulation or fucked up scaling like on the launch model PS3's.

Nothing trumps PC obviously though.

>>5216358
>Windows is backwards compatible with Windows
Makes no sense fucktard.

>>5216368
Too bad that was three garbage consoles in a row.

>>5216370
Yes it does, backwards compatibility between OS releases is a thing.

>>5216376
>GC
>shit
So you hate JRPGs then?

>>5216376
Still Windows though. Even Windows 10 is pretty limited without dosbox or emulators. Can't even play all Windows games without fucking up.

>>5216370
Yes it does, you can reasonably expect software made for Windows 95 to still run on Windows 10. Microsoft Word 97 will still run on Windows 10. The problem is games that rely on old APIs like DirectX/Glide3D or disc check DRM like SafeDisc will run poorly if at all.

>>5216353
DS only plays GBA. GBA plays GB, GBC and GBA.

>>5216371
how n64 is better than gamecube and wii?

>>5216515
>what is transitivity

>>5216302
DC could also play Playstation games...

>>5216838
and it actually looked better too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzgPcVO7oDg

Apparently bleemcast emulated most PSX games, but there were obvious legal issues, so they only released a few versions of it for popular games.

>>5216810
>what is eating a bag of dicks

>>5216841
>and it actually looked better too

That's a good joke. Unless you like shitty color banding.

>Apparently bleemcast emulated most PSX games

Yeah, all 40 of them.

>>5216810
Something not applied here. The GBA was able to play the GB/GBC because it had a Z80-based coprocessor. Plus the DS's GBA slot was not compatible with the GB/GBC cartridges. Next time do a little more research anon :)

>>5216873
well you got me, I never owned a gba or a ds but I was sure it could run gb and gbc games as a gba (I've seen a friend playing pokemon yellow on his gb advance)

>>5216380
W10 is by far the most compatible I have ever had for retro games. There are nigger games that launched for W98 that work better on 10 than 98.

>>5216368
>>5216353
>>5216515
3DS can play DS and GBA natively.

>>5216919
>>5216508
>>5216370
>>5216376
>>5216358
>>5216371
>>5216380
GNU/Linux is backwards compatible with Windows (in fact, it even runs old games better).
Why haven't you upgraded to GNU/Linux yet?

>>5216891
GBA ran GB and GBC games too. All versions of it. DS ran GBA and DS games and that's it. Similarly to how 3DS runs both DS and 3DS games, but not GBA.

On the topic in general: GBA is the most backward compatible handheld ever. Certain launch PS3s were best backward compatible consoles.

PC is an argument I'm not looking to get into, but you can technically run anything on any PC, ad long as you have the right software and sufficient specs. But that's neither here nor there.
(Guess I lied, here's my argument) PC backward compatibility is software based, not hardware, and compatability can take some fucking work.

Buy the right PS3 or any GBA model, put in any compatible platform's games and they work. Buy a PC, fuck with settings for half an hour, download updates and etc and you can run whatever. So technically, Windows' compatability "out of the box" leaves a bit to be desired. But work at it, and you can surpass everytheing else.

I do know that le glorious master raec (xD) is gonna have a shit fit and run to the platform's defense, but it's true. I.can't just take a windows 3.1 version of chips challenge or doom and have it just work. It takes time and effort that backwards compatible consoles generally don't

Just sayin.

>>5216302
Modern PC emulation can't really handle saturn emulation, so that was out in 1999. Hardware based alternitives would have made the price of a DC go up a lot, and their major selling point for DC was the $200 price tag, so that was out too.

/thread.

>>5216942
3DS actually can play GBA games kind of natively. You can't plug them in, obviously but it runs them off of it's DS hardware inside of it. They offered GBA games for the ambassador program and you can get VC injections with a hacked 3DS

>>5216942
>I can't just take a windows 3.1 version of chips challenge or doom and have it just work
Yes you can if you use a 32-bit version of Windows.
64-bit ones are no longer compatible with 2.x/3.x programs.

>>5216308
it can, but it either had a ps2 inside, or it used an emulator, which they segmented off so you would have to pay more for and latter discontinued.

ps2 could play psx because psx was so fuckin pathetic that emulation of it was a non problem.

>>5216306
only answer needed

now let's forget our troubles with a big bowl of strawberry ice cream

>>5216805
3rd party support with must have games, while gc wii and wiiu are almost all first party system sellers.

>>5216947
the issue with emulation is knowing what does what in a console, not a matter of specs.

sega has the blueprints for its own console, so emulation would work if they tried.

>>5216805
>constipation is better than diarrhea

>>5216928
because I'm not a retarded agenda pushing asshole and I'm only here to play games

>>5216380
>So you hate JRPGs then?

Yes, you weeb fuck. Star Fox Adventures was cool tho.

>>5216928
I used to run it for a while. I'll probably go back after my Windows 7 PC dies because I don't want to use 10.

Is that autist still spamming >tfw 16 gigs of RAM every 30 minutes on /g/?

>>5216967
wrong.
PS2 used a similiar architecture to the ps1, and could run ps1 instructions natively on its processor. The ps1's gpu is emulated though.

The reason PS2 could play PS1 games out of the box is because the PS1's CPU was the PS2's I/O controller. It was such an efficient design it could be used easily. The Saturn's CPUs on the other hand were a fucking hodge podge mess of processors. Including that hardware in the DC would have doubled the cost.

>>5216308
My PS3 plays PS2 games. Too bad that fucker is currently waiting to be revived.

>Huge Mungus was backwards compatible with Big Chungus
>Dreamcast wasn't backwards compatible with Sega Saturn
what the fuck, sega

>>5217402
possibly, but keep in mind while the ps1 was still a system, where were commercial emulators that were good and the systems these ran on were also weaker than the ps2, hell bleem is the reason emulation is legal in the us, though they got fucked hard in legal costs to make that happen.

>>5217402
PS2 running PS2 games was pretty different architecture, they just happened to keep the PS1's CPU as an IO coprocessor. In later model PS2 Slims it used a different IO processor and emulated PS1 entirely.

>>5216302
Your dad could beat altered beast
Why can't you?

>>5216302
DC could play PS1 games though.

>>5216302

Because nobody back then was thinking "Oh no, how am I going to play old arcade ports and Japanese Puyo Puyo clones now????"

>>5216928
Linux's WINE uses DOSBox, you tremendous faggot. what a computer illiterate.

>>5216924
But only for hypershills and pirates ;).

>>5216306
Saturn was going to be more streamlined and even have Genesis support but it was rushed because of wasting 6-9 months on the Gajin32x

>>5216981
Gamecube got just enough fibre.

>Saturn: SH-2
>DC: SH-4

Why coudn't the DC's SH-4 be used to handle part of the Saturn's architecture natively?

>>5216928
>GNU/Linux is backwards compatible with Windows
WINE is a implementation of the Windows API, nothing to do with compatibility.

>>5218215
>Linux's WINE uses DOSBox
How fucking retarded can you be? It's not emulation. DOSBox has NOTHING to do with WINE.

>>5216302
DC could barely play DC games, you can’t get blood from a stone.

>>5218215
>>5218712
>superior platform can play an inferior platform's games
>somehow not backwards compatiblity

>>5216302
What did you expect for a company that make you buy a vibration pack separately?

>>5217402
>The ps1's gpu is emulated though
It should be mentioned that this is a controversial point and nobody knows for sure.

>>5216308
The original CECHA and CECHB models have PS2 hardware backwards compatibility by using the same chip as the PS2. CECHC models originally had software backwards compatibility until Sony nicked i for some reason.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3_technical_specifications

>>5221429
How hard is it to reverse engineer that shit and find out?

>>5216302
The cost of shoving a Saturn into the Dreamcast for the 10 people who owned Saturn games would be a bad design decision.

>>5216370
SysWOW64

Windows on Windows 64

You're literally emulating Windows

>>5216371
t. sonygger.

>>5216353
DS only played gba games and that was removed with the DSI.

>>5222934
WOW
Is
Not
an
Emulator

>>5216942
>GBA ran GB and GBC games too. All versions of it.

The GBA Micro couldn't run GB/GBC games unfortunately.

>>5218075
This, when did we start pretending Saturn even had any games on it?

>>5221429
It's emulated, anon. GS doesn't support PS1 opcodes out of the blue, they need to be translated and virtualized first (by the EE and its PGIF component). It's a small step, but that still counts as emulating it.

>>5216919
Doesn't W10 drop support for older D3Ds and instead emulates them? Games like the Sims run terribly on modern OEM PCs because of that, while some games have weird texture artifacting like Vice City.

>>5223618
Nobody ever said the Saturn had games except for a few autists here on /vr/ who try to meme the N64 into being trash because their childhood was spent playing gay purple jester trash and arcade ports instead of cool shit like Zelda.

>>5216302
>>5216306
Because you touch yourself at night

>>5223684
>GS doesn't support PS1 opcodes out of the blue, they need to be translated and virtualized first
Nobody knows that for sure either. The GS is built up from the PS1 GPU in the same way that the Mega Drive VDP is built up from the Master System VDP, and I'm fairly sure the Mega Drive doesn't do any opcode translation.

>>5223618
When we started pretending a place called Japan existed. Wew lad

>>5223596
>GB_A_ Micro
yikes

>>5224797
>yikes
Time to go back

>>5226456
its name lacks "advance" for a reason, m8y

>>5227101
>its reading lacks comprehension for a reason
Because it needs to go back to wherever it's underage ass came from. Judging by the yikes that'd be reddit.
>lacks "advance"
>has "game boy"
>plays "advance"
>doesn't play "game boy"
wew lad

>>5216302
Backward compatibility was too expensive

>>5228215
but it does

>>5216961
>64-bit ones are no longer compatible with 2.x/3.x programs.
The CPUs can't execute 16-bit instructions in long mode. It's not a software limitation.

>>5229493
Through shitty emulation called "goomba" on a GBA flash cart sure, otherwise no

>>5216302
japans don't care what white pig wants

>>5216891
Not even the Gameboy Micro could play GB/GBC games, only GBA. Same for the DS.
No Z80, no Gameboy

>>5216924
I'd say the 3DS would be the winner here, it can play 3DS, DSi (Very different hardware type), DS (different again), and even fucking GBA all by jumping between which processors it uses.
>>5218454
>hypershills
Is that what 3DS ambassadors are called now?
I'm both :)

>PSP
>Runs PSX games natively
>Emulates everything else on the planet, runs fucking RetroArch now

Imagine that, if the 3DS could run Wii games natively, the Vita PS3 games, that's the fucking level the PSP was on
>Now I'm having nightmares of a PowerPC Switch running Wii U games
Fugg

>>5218698
SH-2 asm is different to SH-4 asm, you also need to find a way to emulate the graphics/audio subsystems, which the SH-4 isn't fast enough for to do it in pure software.

>>5229591
Didn't they discover a massive performance improvement with the PSP by jacking into the media center processor? Like it's able to actually tap into several N64 games by now, not to mention the ever-eluding SNES.

>>5216370
Thick cunt.

>>5216979
Some consoles are such fucking messes that it's outside the scope of even the original designers, this is happening more with modern consoles (The whole teams for porting xbox games to 360, and 360 to one), but even that's not as bad as the fucking Saturn.
Sure, one man may not have designed the NES, but it was maybe three or four teams of 1-5 people who worked on segments of it.
Fuck, the 6502 was three main guys, the soundchip it was bundled with was one guy at nintendo who spent most his time as a composer, the PPU five guys, 10NES was a store bought micro, point is you can sit down for a week, spend a day or two on each chip, and have a total understanding of the beautiful system architecture that is the NES, and understand it down to the fucking transistor.

You can emulate this entirely in less than 1k lines of C, and it will work perfectly.

The Sega Saturn is not this.
The Sega Saturn is the sort of abomination that happens when someone says "Hey, what if we throw in a 68k, just to handle sound?"
"What, a 6800 for sound?"
"No, a 68k for sound"
"You mean like the gameboy, to give it backwards compatibility?"
"No, I mean just for sound"
and people think that's a good idea to include a 70 thousand transistor chip just to handle fucking sound.
Hell, we even have Saturn programmers posting videos on youtube about the internals, that shit took some 130 IQ fuckduckery, or at very least plugging a ram expansion pak into your brain just to keep track of everything going on at once.
Nintendo can write a N64 emulator because they designed the thing, the Saturn wasn't designed, someone, as a joke, drunkenly tried to connect together a mishmash of 20 or so ICs that had no place being in the same building, let alone the same PCB as one another, and get it to play actual games.
Sega said "Fuck it", and we have the saturn.
PEOPLE might emulate it, sure, but no company is sadistic enough to try and pay people to create such a thing, that's torture

>>5223591
That's wine, silly. WOW is an emulator

WINE
Is
Not
an
Emulator

>>5229493
Emulation isn't official backwards compatibility
(Even if it does officially emulate the NES)

>>5229637
It is, unfortunately, not the kind of architecture that works well(or at all?) with high-level emulation, unless for example, the N64.

I still hope that some resourceful dev will someday come up with a perfect Saturn emulator. Or maybe someone tries a Saturn-on-a-chip for a retro console re-release, whatever.

>>5229610
Haven't heard of that, but it would be interesting if they did.
The Media Engine contains a second, near identical version of the main CPU, funny to think that years after it's died, we finally learn the thing's potentially twice as powerful as everyone thought.
At bare minimum you get a 2x performance boost.
What's interesting is that alongside the processor core, ignoring some media decoders, is a "Virtual Mobile Engine", a reprogrammable circuit system, basically a whole fucking FPGA!
Sony, being sony, looks like they first used it in a MiniDisc Walkman
https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press_Archive/200212/02-1210E/
But, from looking further, it really is a beast.
Original "Leaked" psp specs from years back, here:
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/84520-sony-psp-specs/7?print
This is fucking beautiful, not only does the PSP have a possibly untapped second processor, but a reconfigurable gate array on it too!
If programmed properly, the PSP could really be on the same level as many modern software-only devices.
Depending on how extensible this is, you could throw a fucking SNES's chip into the thing, and run it like it was real!
Fuck me, the PSP is utterly insane. To think, my dear little Go has had all this packed inside it for so long..., even my 1000.

>>5229664
Considering the number of things that need to be ran in perfect parallel, it'd be a nightmare.
You'd spend 10 instructions to handle one core of one chips instruction, then repeat, then again, then 20 instructions shifting data around now that it's all in place, keeping track of what to give to other chips if they ask, then it's on to processor bundle 2 of 20 to start all over again.
Once you've finally iterated through every fucking node of every fucking core of every fucking chip, spend another 200 instructions on housekeeping just so everything's ready for the next CLOCK PULSE
THOUSANDS OF INSTRUCTIONS, ALL ONLY EVER ABLE TO BE RAN SINGLE THREADED BECAUSE OF THE FUCKING MESS YOU'D CAUSE TRYING TO RE-PARALLELISE A LINEAR INTERPRETATION OF A PARALLEL SYSTEM, then, GET THIS, THEN, you've FINALLY COMPUTED A SINGLE, SOLITARY FUCKING CLOCKPULSE
THOUSANDS, IF NOT TENS OF THOUSANDS OF INSTRUCTIONS, to emulate what?
Exactly what does all that emulate?
A Single Fucking clock pulse, and everything that happens in that single clock pulse.
You've executed more instructions by an order of magnitude than it takes an NES to generate an entire frame, and you have to do this 28 MILLION FUCKING TIMES A SECOND.
Let's be generous, and say you can do everything in 300 instructions, that's gonna need a computer running nothing but the Saturn emulator at 8.4GHz, more realistically 28GHz. Guess fucking what? Our computers aren't ever gonna get that fast, no time soon. We're all talking about optimisation, multithreading, well that's all but fucking useless when you have to emulate something as mind fuckingly obtuse as the Sega Fucking Saturn
That's not to mention that the Saturn has 14 DIFFERENT FUCKING CLOCK SPEEDS ON IT

>>5229493
>im retarded
FTFY

>>5229591
>Imagine that, anything i shitposted was true

>>5229591
>>PSP
>>Runs PSX games natively
Not true, it's emulation.

>>5229701
calm down mooch.

>>5229701
Did you have a stroke writing this or what?

>>5229637
if you know what is going on in the conoles, which most people don't, you can easily make hacky fixes in emulation, and if you know what pinouts are suppose to do what, its even easier.

I'm not saying it's easy, but the number 1 issue stopping emulation is knowing what does what.

>>5229583
>Is that what 3DS ambassadors are called now?
Being an early-adopting eShop-customer? yes.

>>5229583

Manchild.

>>5229701
>You've executed more instructions by an order of magnitude than it takes an NES to generate an entire frame, and you have to do this 28 MILLION FUCKING TIMES A SECOND.
lost

>>5230183
>

>>5216919
lmao what a load of fucking bollocks, 10 is complete shit, stop with the cope posts.

>>5231026
The backwards compatibility in 10 is really fucking good thoug. Have you ever even used it or are you just mindlessly bashing it

>>5216308
>being THIS uninformed
LMAOING with my still working first model fat ps3 with the 4 usb ports in the front. Also replaced the thermal paste on the cpu

>>5216302
ps2 had the ps1 main cpu in it literally so it could play ps1 games.

the dreamcast was trying to be simple, and including 7 fucking cpus to support saturn games is anything but simple.

>>5230702
yeah and just "knowing what does what" in the saturn is not even close to trivial. there are specs but specs have errors and there are plenty of undocumented edge cases.

>>5232486
that's the thing, IF we are talking about dreamcast and sega doing it themselves, they they absolutely could.

Homebrew emulation though, that's a fucking mess as far as saturn is concerned still damanding fuckloads or processing power for what should be relatively simple tasks.

>>5233556
>that's a fucking mess as far as saturn is concerned still damanding fuckloads or processing power for what should be relatively simple tasks.
the only (until recently) good emulator being closed-source didn't exactly help.

>>5229673
Post source pls.
>Your ass