/vr/ - Retro Games

soul soulless

>there are people who will act like Samus' original sprite and animations don't look like complete garbage
Samus' run cycle looks like shit and you k ow it.

>>5212458
This is it. The comment that killed the idea that soul and soulless ever meant anything.

>>5212458
this desu

>>5212464
while the original was pretty bad, unless you work within the same constraints as the creators, >>5212458 is right. it's a good upgrade, but graphics take up a huge amount of memory, and it's not really possible to implement a compression scheme in the case of the nes for something like the main character graphics.

>>5212449
What's VP?

>>5212470
The NES can do the right one. That is the point.

>>5212475
I highly doubt it can unless there is some black magic PPU swapping every frame going on.

>>5212475
Name one (1) NES game with that many frames of animation for a character.

>>5212475
no doubt the nes could do the new one. it would just take an 3x the memory for samus graphics, and for a tiny nes cart, that may be prohibitive, especially if all of the character graphics are redone.

half the art of these games is to fit as much into the constraints you have to work with as possible. these games didn't have a "pixel aesthetic", they had technical limitations.

>>5212497
Dragon's Lair, biatch

>>5212504
Good thing Metroid didn't come on a cartridge but on floppies with practically infinite storage.

>>5212516
The animation is rotoscoped which makes it look more fluid, but it’s nowhere near 12 frames. They couldn’t do that many frames till PS1/Saturn.

>>5212529
http://gif-explode.com/?explode=http://i.4cdn.org/vr/1544500528609.gif

also, you have no clue what you're talking about

>>5212529
https://www.spriters-resource.com/resources/sheets/30/32891.png

>>5212542
>only 10 frames
HAHA YOUR GAY

>>5212497
You're going to move the goalposts because it's not literally twelve frames of animation per run cycle but Moon Crystal's claim to fame is its fluid animation.

>>5212468
Soul and soulless never meant anything in the first place. It was always a way to try to make your fuzzy nostalgia over something older and less conventionally attractive look correct, or as a very short and lazy way to say "i prefer the art direction of the older one" without putting any effort into constructing an argument for it.

>>5212449
come on anon, at least post the rest

Instead of more crappy level hacks I wish modders would do things like this to improve the vanilla experience. One of the better doom mods adds more in-between animation frames for the monsters, more fun than that brutal doom shit.

>>5212586
People have progressively been trying to figure out shorter and shorter ways to convey their opinion, and what's irritating is that other people actually accept them in place of arguments. Eventually we'll get to the point where people are conversing in single letters.

I think phoneposting was responsible for this.

>>5212764
k

>>5212820

>>5212517
wtf I own the cart

>>5212449
So is someone actually trying to "remake"' this game or is that just some one-off gif?

>>5212516
Unrelated, but God, what a terrible game.

>>5212449
It looks cool, but why did they have to change Samus's gait?

What they should do is keep the original frames and interpolate between them, not reanimate the whole thing.

>>5212556
Fluid animation, uses the fucking air to pull himself up. Christ.

>>5212743
which mod is that

>>5212994
I'd rather have slightly too wide margins for hit detection in platforming, than slightly too thin margins.

>>5212449
>upgrade
More like downgrade. It looks terrible.

>>5213014
Fair enough honestly.

>>5212464
Her original run cycle is fine. The real problem is how spindly and un-detailed she is. The sprite on the right is way better because the limbs are bulkier. Give that sprite the original walk cycle and you'll see the animation was never the problem.

>>5212764
Lol@u

>>5212834
Funny thing, is that he's not wrong either. Metroid, and LoZ as well, were both disc system games originally. Then were ported (cut down slightly) to fit on a cart.

>>5212497
Bio Force Ape
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmSgbhAxZ_k

>>5213509
>That fall animation
>Those jumps
>That powerbomb
>That catchy as fuck music
Fucking amazing

>>5213004
Not the same person, but Smooth Doom. Someone made a nice list of similar stuff here:

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/1889897

But if you want gore, don't use Ketchup. Either use Bolognese, or I recommend Nash Gore: Vengeance Edition. Though you may want to wait for the next update, there's a collision bug you might run into every now and then.

https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=62641

>>5213509
Shit, how could I forget this. Not only fluid animation, but fast, smooth scrolling. It's too bad it went unreleased, even though it's just an ok game.

>>5212449
Why the hell would you make the improved walkcycle for the vanilla graphics instead of the objectively better MDBtroid sprites?

>>5212480
Half of NES graphics techniques is 'black magic'. NES is basically a box designed to run Donkey Kong that devs made run anything they wanted.

>>5213509
I don't play any NES games and even this looks awesome to me

>>5213715
>a box designed to run Donkey Kong
It couldn't even do that. The NES version is missing 1/4 of the game.

>>5212480
>>5212497
hardware-wise, including the mappers, it's doable (but inviable in 1986, though)

>Batman: Return of the Joker
8 frames (walking), bigger and more complex sprite
>Donkey Kong Country (bootleg)
12 frames (walking + running)

>>5212458
You're probably trolling, but it would be awesome to see the most popular NES games completely unmodified except with 4x more animation frames. The experience would be just like you remember, but all of the animations are fluid and more detailed.

>>5212449
can we please have a romhack with smooth anims? that isn't this

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbvDu_nkevE

>>5214067
I'm pretty sure some of those DK sprites are swimming.

>>5212449
I almost like this more for clearing up the suit design (and keeping it close to what it looked like in OG Metroid's artwork) than I do smoothing it out. It also gives her a "weight" similar to Super.

>>5214118
I love OG Metroid to bits but I agree both the sprite design and walkcycle are shite.

>>5212449
I hope someone with a crt will record this image on their screen via composite. Samus sprite looks bad but actually better on composite.

>>5212556
Moon Crystal was also a very, very like Famicom release, like Kirby's Adventure. Developers had learned a lot of optimization techniques by then that wouldn't be possible at the time of Metroid's release.

>>5214332
The walkcycle is natural. It's the original that looks like crap, Samus is pulling her knee all the way up to her chest in one frame, in another it looks like her arms are carrying a baby or something

>>5214098
nope

>>5214067
I am curious. I will look at it tonight.

>>5213509
I remember when this was supposed to be a hoax (and then it turned out to be real?)

>>5214332
>>5214509
What's weird is they actually made unique sprites for her depending on the direction she's facing just like Super, but they never used them for some unknown reason. Shame as they do look much closer to the powersuit art of the time

>>5214725
I saw this guy’s deviant art. He makes the heads bob too much in every sprite he does.

>>5213509
Looks nice, when was it released?

Sure these are "better" from a smoothness of animation style, but could you imagine using them in game?

I can't fathom looking at megaman other than his shitty run cycle. Same with SMB1 Mario, or Samus.

Leave these things to rest.

>>5214747
>>5214751
Now I'm convinced these look bad on purpose as a joke.

>>5214751
This one is better.

>>5214762
There's a noticeable quality increase between the earlier and later ones that the guy did, the early ones look retarded and the later ones range from not completely awful to pretty decent.

>>5214462
>Kirby's Adventure
>literally
>the game that's just blocks of orange and brown except for like two stages
>the game that suffers from slowdown from just Kirby and one enemy using its ability
>the game where every enemy is red
>half of the screen is just a UI that does nothing like it was made by Yuropooristanis
>the battery backup literally only saves what world you are on, and not stage, score, power up, or lives

I literally had to google this image and install 4chanX to post it without saving it on my computer to express how tired I am of people fellating that game as if it's some sort of technical master piece. For a 1991 game, it's not well polished graphically or technically. People only care because muh sakurai made this game.

>>5214763
Actually it sucks ass.

>>5212621
Isn't one of the others a remake of megaman's run cycle? If it's what I'm thinking of, it looks pretty bad.

>>5214763
>>5214751
No

Is this what they call "forced animation"?

>>5214773
>>the game where every enemy is red
why the fuck did you have to point this out to me

>>5214751
Oh. There it is. Yeah this one is awful.

>>5214773
>the game where every enemy is red
Factually incorrect

>>5214773
Of all the images you could have chosen to remotely post after installing an add-on you didn't even need in the first place to remotely post an image, you chose the most cancerous one.
Congratulations, you're a brain-dead moron.

>>5214734
>>5214739
>>5214747
>>5214751
Does this guy know how hats work?
Who shuffles their head like that while walking?

Oh hey I made one of these too
Except I didn't actually make it, just stole the sprites from a dead Metroid II remake project and then arranged them to look like these

>>5214812
a duck.

>>5213509
That actually looks fucking good, why didn't it release? Did they just go out of business?

>>5214817
only acceptable one in this thread

>>5214751
Disgusting.

Only thing I'd say is he's not taking in to account the sense of speed given by the character's movement speed in-game. I have a feeling some of these sprites would look really awkward when placed in game at default. The Samus sprite is still legit better though

>>5212497
Metal Storm has a smooth walk animation

>>5214837
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud8rgSkjI08

>>5214751
I was expecting Mega's helmet to flop off his head like a pancake, based on the other examples

>>5214602
Also, her hair was supposed to be swept to one side when facing forward (without her suit, of course), but you never see this in-game because they just mirrored her head sprite there, too.

>>5214756
what a shitload of fuck

>>5212475
>The NES can do the right one.
Yes it can. The thing is, the original Metroid was released in 1986 for the FDS. Therefore, it can't take advantage of the advanced MMCs like MMC3 or MMC5 with more features and more data banks that were used in much later NES games.

>>5212834
>wtf i own the tiger lcd double dragon
>what do you mean i don't own an arcade

>>5212449
She looks like she's dancing a jig on the left

>>5215747
>>5212449
She kind of looks like she's doing that chad walk that Castlevania characters do, which made sense on the NES but for some reason they kept it when they entered the 16 bit era, meanwhile Metroid went for more natural animations.

>>5215759
>that chad walk that Castlevania characters do, which made sense on the NES but for some reason they kept it when they entered the 16 bit era
Because it makes Simon look like an absolute chad.

>>5215767
I'll take the chadwalk over the shitwalk anytime.

>>5214817
someone do fusion's run cycle

fusion is so aesthetic

>>5214725
>>5214734
>>5214739
>>5214747
>>5214751
>>5214756
>>5214761
>soul vs souless

>>5216071
You mean the shit-your-pants-walk

>>5212497
Wizard and Warriors (that eagle)

>>5216071
Exactly. That walk cycle is clearly Simon, sweating, stressed, and uncomfortable.
Why are there no toilets in Dracula's castle? Why did he choose Taco Bell in place of literally any of the other options available to him?

>>5216085
People shit a lot on Fusion, and there's some legit things to dislike, but goddamn, that was one of my favorite portable games.

>>5216119
You're thinking of Iron Sword, W&W 2

>>5212517
The fuck are you talking about. Infinite storage? Fuck off

>>5212449
>not pictured: 60 frames

>>5212764
Kys

>>5214747
>im gonna make the hat bounce

I don't get it: what's the point of this bullshit?

Just play the fucking game.

>>5216481
It's fun.

>>5216114
I still get surprised when I see a Gameboy title with parallax scrolling.

>>5214817
Samus' upper body doesnt have the sway in the remaster like shes actually twisting at the waist as she runs

>>5216085
I can't give you an upgrade, but I do have this.

>>5212449
Everyone in this thread lacks the ability to actually articulate a reasoned opinion on why these upgrade sprites miss the point (or soul) of NES sprites.
Here is an entire youtube video about strong keyframes in nes games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJosaT1sCfs

>>5216498
For whatever reason, the Obelix and Asterix games have really good production value.
See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giIJyBSwvK4

>>5216721
Glad you posted this, adding frames by itself does nothing, and can lead to a game looking floaty.

>>5214773
>newfag frogposter
KYS

>>5212449
holy shit is this a romhack

>>5216721
There's a lot of subjective opinion being held up as objective fact in that bullshit. He also obsesses about Little Samson when his rotation jump is literally the exact kind of excessive animation without really adding to the feel he was bitching about in Megaman 8. He's right about Batman being a good mix of both approaches. tl:dr He's not exactly wrong, but he's being an asshole about it.

>>5214751
the megaman one is ok.

>>5212449
>>5214725
>>5214734
>>5214739
>>5214747
>>5214751
>>5214756
>>5214761
This looks like that awful smooth motion 120hz tv shit

>>5214763
>stayin alive

>>5212449
does the right fit into the same sprite area?

>>5214812
Mario.

>>5214763
That looks smooth, but animates far too slow.

>>5216085
>"so aesthetic"

>>5214082
like the smoothdoom mod that just adds animation frames to everything. yeet.

>>5212470
>"you can't do better sprites than what they did with metroid"
Except later NES games prove that wrong. Like, I'm not going to slam Metroid too hard, for the time, it was really good and looked better than most other games out on home consoles. But it's simply untrue that the NES can't do better.

>>5214812
A cartoon.

>>5214747
>thwakthwakthwakthwakthwak

>>5212458
based and redpilled

>>5214812
Fat people

>>5212449
this one's better, but that's not hard with how fucking jank the OG run cycle is

>>5214725
this one is a downgrade, mostly because batman bobs too much, it removes that sort of stalking motion he had
>>5214734
while this one keeps that sort of stalking pace

>>5214751
>>5214761
jesus that's bad
a lot of them are good or at least decent and I'm too lazy to comment on them, but these are particularly fucking awful

>>5212449
Its stupid how a lot of new spriters resort to that lame looking "head pivots along with entire body" thing for everything now. Only time it actually makes sense is for characters like Wario in Wario Land 4 who is fat with no neck and waddles when going full speed.

>>5221902
I like the smooth animations but the head pivots would be difficult to notice on a crt. Pitfall on atari 2600 had good animations so it was a step back going to nes.

>>5214761
nigga walking like he got a wood leg or something

>>5214812
Maybe not while walking, but while running, peoples' heads definitely do bob about quite a bit.

>>5212556
that game is beautiful to look at, but a bitch to play. there is actually too much animation, to the point that the PC is hard to control. watch him turn around, he actually requires space to move, which leads to accidentally falling off ledges. the developers helped you out by extending the hitboxes past the ledge image, but it is still a bitch to control

>>5214751
How do you fuck up something that Sakurai already did perfectly in Smash Bros

>>5216071
As said by an anon other than me: the walk cycle of a constipated patrician on a mission.

>>5216637
I've always felt that Fusion's run cycle just a tiny bit off for some reason. A tad too little arm movement (not speed, but movement range) in proportion to leg movement perhaps?

>>5212449
Bitch, you're going to have to update all animated sprites in the game or it's going to look like shit.

>>5212743
>more crappy level hacks
>DOOM

wtf is this post

>>5216721
>pic related
I would get hit once on purpose every level

>>5214763
This is even worse than the one I thought it was. Even 8 had a smoother walk cycle.

>>5217459
Came to post this

>>5214817

https://youtu.be/E3aNm-K82UM

>>5217939
I'm not saying the NES can't do sprites like that, I'm just saying sprites like that have a large memory footprint.

I see OPs image and think to myself, "this person respects 'retro aesthetic', but not the 'retro art' ", which in my opinion is making the most out of a very limited system. A sprite animation like OPs shows very little understanding of the underlying hardware, and just brute forces what the artists thinks would be an improvement. It's a matter of understanding the nuances of the art vs imitating the art.

As I said in >>5212470, the original sprite isn't great by any measure of quality, and the "upgrade" is done well. I just think that I'd be more impressed with a better 4 frame walk cycle (for instance, the stock mega man is great).

Also, I tend to find over-animated games either have lousy play control, or awkward transitions between various poses.

>>5212538
>>5212542
>linking images on an imageboard

Actually retarded.

>>5222689
Battle Princess Madelyn is exactly that, but they give her long johns.

>>5217449
>awful smooth motion
>smooth motion
>awful
Oh right, I'm on /vr/

>>5212449
This does nothing for me

>>5224837
He's not saying that motion which is smooth is bad. He's saying it looks like those 120Hz Smooth Motion™ televisions that interpolate frames to turn 24fps movies into 120fps and look like absolute garbage.

>>5212449
The original Samius sprite is honestly pretty shit, maybe one day I’ll modify the FDS translated English version with a 4 frame version of the right sprite.

>>5214773
>kirby's adventure
>not technically impressive
you can count on your fingers the number of lag frames made in one play through of the game. They even considered using an MMC5 instead of MMC3 but chose not to for cost reasons

>>5214739
Where is the NES supposed to take the extra palette value for that blue coat from?

>>5212458
Shit/shiny

>>5225624
Where's it gonna store all those extra frames?

>>5216886
>full 3d on gba
what the fuck

>>5225676
https://youtu.be/G27pO38Z3l0

>>5225829
I'm glad 3D on gba never caught on so 2D games could live a little longer.

>>5225875
The GBA and original DS did 2D so much better anyway, and it was nice to see some lingering use of 32bit 2D graphics in particular.
Also some ports of some 16bit classics, but on the go, that was very nice.

>>5225875
The Blueroses/Raylight people were fucking wizards but no one really used their tech save for a few games

>>5212449
Looks nice.

However, Zero Mission still beats it.

>>5217118
So this guy is also wrong about animation? I saw his game design videos (particularly the one where he claims that Metroid Fusion is some brilliant horror game) and cringed to death at the bullshit, but you're telling me that despite being an animator, he's also wrong about animation?

>>5216498
That's not real parallax scrolling, it's a multi-screen scrolling techique used in a very clever way - upper clouds, lower clouds, top of the forest, and the hills+actual terrain all scroll at different speeds. You will see that top of the hills NEVER overlaps with outlines of the trees. So it's strictly speaking faked, but it looks impressive nonetheless.

>>5214763
pimp strut

>>5214517
>>5214067
That's a really impressive bootleg, honestly. I thought all bootlegs were shit and romhacks.

>>5226931
>Metroid Fusion
>horror
Some occasional mild pretenses of such, but it's generally a straight action/exploration adventure like the others.

>>5212458
100% this.
Autists will never understand. They can't. Your stupid neuro-atypical brains can't fathom why blindly throwing more frames and pixels at something doesn't make it "better".

>>5225875
Sure, but most game use pre-rendered sprites, aka polygons, anyway, because taht shitty monkey game was popular and nobody liked real 2D anymore.

>>5215767
16-bit version of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLBUd3r1y3I

>>5212458
I'm Japanese and I agree.
I also read from right to left so the 12 frames is indeed soul.

>>5222529
kinda get you looking at it now, its like the arm moves a bit too fast and then has to snap back for the next cycle

>>5227443
Moronic

>>5224837
>>5224979
>>5224837

It was always terrible going to a mate's house to watch movies and seeing his TV had this shit going on. It always looked so bad and the worst thing is that no-one else could see it

>>5227363
I'm sure most people comprehend. 24 fps movies is the norm and faggots cant even comprehend a movie at 60fps because it doesn't look natural.

>>5214747
>take mario and make him a commodore 64 knockoff clone

it's surprisingly fitting

>>5228482
>because it doesn't look natural.
This just in: Real life confirmed not natural. News at 11.

>>5227443
If you read everything from right to left then you would have read the words in reverse order and looked at the images in reverse order, thereby still making them line up as the poster intended.

>>5222529
>>5216637
>>5227464
Looks hunched over, shoulder are too high. Like she jumped to break a ? Block with her head but never snapped back to normal.

>>5212449
Didn't know the game's name changed from metroid to steroids.

>>5224117
Upper body could be a bit slanted forward, though

>>5212449
The smooth version completely changes Samus' gait though. The 4-frame version looks more like she's dashing from the front of her feet, knees high up. The 12-frame version looks more like a more "normalized" run if that makes sense.

That being said, faux-retro indie games should use smoother animation. It looks much better in general if it's already not gonna look convincingly retro.

>>5213101
>Her
Thanks for the spoiler dipshit!

>>5227443
simply epic

>>5228180
It's only moronic if you thing the 4 frame is the soul one.

>>5229649
Read from right to left =/= reading letters backwards instead of reading words as a whole.

>>5230484
'imbly ebin

fixed your shit

>>5229521
Does 60fps movies actually look good to you?

>>5212958
That would look really bad. The timing would be off---you pretty much have to reanimate it to have it look good.

>>5231348
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbqfQ12V6_M

>>5231440
>OLD GOOD
>NEW BAD
just looks bad to you because you're used to 24fps-stuff.

>>5231543
Nar dude, a master animator could use the original sprites and add extra frames to the original animation and it would look sweet as hell.