/vr/ - Retro Games

>>5176598
>"All those moments will be lost in time, like [coughs] tears in rain. Time to die."

>>5176602
I've seen shitty Chinese capacitors on fire in some fat ass hoarder's basement...

>>5176608
>Its too bad she won't live, but then again who does?

>>5176598
>Cartridges will last longer but they don't have an infinite lifespan.

Cartridges can be refurbished.

>>5176640
>but they don't have an infinite lifespan.


Neither do we, all things come to pass.

>>5176608
I've seen.. shovelware discs glittering behind a $120 price tags in retro game stores.

>>5176598
That disc is art.

>floppies were only made to last 20 years!
>pull out 35 year old floppies for the C64
>they all load just fine

It's amazing what keeping stuff in a climate controlled area out of direct sunlight will do for longevity.

Also, whatever is worth dumping has been dumped. Nothing that remains is particularly important for preservation. Nobody really cares about missing revision #28947 of a game that's been dumped a billion times, or poorly made southeast asian bootleg that had a limited release to a single pig farm.

>le disc rot mene

You commies won't ever get the rare stuff, even if disc rot is a lie.

>>5176598
>the next 10-15 years
No.

>>5176678
You think we don't even have THAT long?

>>5176658
Good storage goes a very long way, and there's a lot of bullshit surrounding disc rot as a phenomenon, manufacturing defects are omitted conspicuously often.

I've not had the same luck with floppies however, in fact I've had some particularly bad luck with them. One time I copied stuff from one computer onto a floppy, and then when I put it into another to read it, it had seriously fucking corrupted.

>>5176687
it might be environmental, do you live near the ocean?

>>5176658
EPROMs seem to be a similar concern. While they can certainly be erased by UV light, I know I have some 25+ year old ones that still read fine. Some with shitty paper labels that still m azad tech written checksums. Certainly should be dumped and covered ASAP, but yeah, if they're in a box or a dim room they should be fine. My main gameroom has UV resistant film on the window, a shade pulled down, and the two doors leading into it either closed or slightly cracked to allow for more ventilation. I'm not too concern about anything in there getting corrupted or rotting from any factor other than age

>>5176658
EPROMs seem to be a similar concern. While they can certainly be erased by UV light, I know I have some 25+ year old ones that still read fine. Some with shitty paper labels that still matched written checksums. Uncovered EPROMs certainly should be dumped and covered ASAP, but yeah, if they're in a box or a dim room they should be fine. My main gameroom has UV resistant film on the window, a shade pulled down, and the two doors leading into it either closed or slightly cracked to allow for more ventilation. I'm not too concern about anything in there getting corrupted or rotting from any factor other than age.

>>5176598
You literally put that in the freezer. Disc rot is a meme. The plastics and reflective layers are impermeable now compared to the old "gold" CDs from the 80s.

>>5176717
(and by written I mean either handwritten or coded into the data for the whole program)
>>5176718
Manufacturing errors could be an issue, I guess.

Most discs are fine, but i've been reluctant to collect any X68000 games because of the 5.25" floppies

>>5176687
That's down to the drives, not the media.

>>5176718
all plastics are susceptible to moisture and temperature change

though I think our generation will probably die first

>>5176598
This is kinda related. I like how you can put busted CPUs in an oven for about 15 minutes at 180-200 degrees Celsius and a lot of the time they'll work again after.

>>5177050
I thought heat is what destroys old computer parts like CPUs? Not counting in the process to make them of course but that takes more than just some heat as far as I'm aware.

>>5176640
CDs can too, just burn another one

>>5176598
I have CD games older than you. Based on your underage shitpost I'd guess I have audio CDs older than your dad.

>>5177050
That's just a temporary 'fix'. The silicon is still fucked, some heat/cooling cycles, movement and moisture will make the connections degrade further.

>>5177051
The heat 'reflows' the circuits and solders, as I understand, to make them connect properly again.

Reminder that "disc rot" is actually just a manufacturing error and OPs statement is at best, misleading, but realistically, a huge fucking lie he pulled from his clearly well-stretched anus.

That disc probably is heated. Try putting it in your asshole it makes a great anal device!

>>5176848
you a disk bitch?

For the millionth fucking time disc rot stems from a defect in the manufacturing process. This is why different print runs of different games have different liklihoods of rot. A game that gets disc rot was ALWAYS destined to eventually rot, and a game that didn't get stamped defectively will never have disc rot

>>5176647
pottery

>>5176598
WASH YOUR FUCKING HANDS!!

>>5176658
>Nobody really cares about missing revision #28947 of a game that's been dumped a billion times, or poorly made southeast asian bootleg that had a limited release to a single pig farm.
Tell that to byuu.

oh this thread again

name one disk based game that hasn't been dumped

enthusiasts always make replacements, drive or disk

>>5176718
>Disc rot is a meme.

no.

>>5178157
>name one disk based game that hasn't been dumped

Denpa Shounenteki Game 2 for Sega Saturn.

>>5178308
That's a scratched label disc.

>>5178308
I wonder who could be behind this post?

The worst thing I've ever encountered were fuckhead sellers trying to offload games with radial scratches.

Radial scratches fucking murder games - particularly older titles that used CD audio. I was conned into buying a Sega CD game (a very rare one) with only 1 or 2 radial scratches and I can't even make a disk image of the thing because there are so many bad sectors on the disk now.

The thing, you never know at first if the scratches only affect CD audio. The game will still boot up. You should be making disk images of all and every game that comes on an optical disk.

>>5176608
Discs that spin twice as fast, only for read half as long.

>>5178308
>no
>clearly fucking scratched

>>5176598
How does a place like /vr/ even let these types of idiot threads stick around? We all know better and that disc rot is proven false except in the most extreme cases of neglect.

>>5178314
Shame. I guess we'll just have to live with the first one, or Mario Party, until someone eventually dumps it. Life is pain.

>>5178452
>stick around
We don't. People keep churning out ignorant spawn

There are CDs and DVDs that use a gold layer instead of an aluminum one with a significantly longer lifespan, and they're still readily available in spite of everything being done by digital transfer for the sake of archiving.

I remember in he 90s a few bands actually released music on gold CDs but it didn't sell well due to the high price.

BUT with that higher price comes with knowing what you archive on them will outlast any other current digital storage. So I am surprised that game and movie producers don't use and offer that option.

I just hope they have the brains to back up their digital works on gold disc within their own offices for the sake of long-term preservation.

It's a different time, companies will try to sell their old shit forever and by doing that, preserve them.

>>5177050
Works with lazy jews too

>>5178864
>So I am surprised that game and movie producers don't use and offer that option.

They would rather resell it to you anon. They do the cheapest thing for max profit, not the caring thing so your media is preserved. I'm talking music more than games here, but if they can sell you the same media 5 times in your life, they have made more profit.

>>5178392
Underrated

>>5177050
You can reflow components which have become detached from a PCB by heat with an oven. CPUs usually don't do that because they're more often than not in a socket with a tensioned bracket holding them down. Reflowing can sometimes fix a faulty graphic cards but will probably not work on a faulty CPU at all.

Also do not use a full-size oven to reflow components, aside from taking too long to get to the right temperature reflowing contaminates the oven which makes it unsuitable for cooking food. Unless you want your food with a side of flux and lead. Use a small toaster oven instead.

Is this testing whether I'm a retro gamer or a lesbian, Mr. Deckard?

>>5176602
I lost a 2600 about a decade ago to a power supply failure that also zorched the mainboard. Game and controller were fine. That and my rrod 360 have been my only console failures in many years of game play.

>>5178864
I remember these being like 45 bucks at circuit city back in the 90s and it was all back catalogue stuff like classic rock.

>>5179332
My fucking Pokémon Blue still saves its game, last I checked, and all my old CD and DVD games from the 2000's and 1990's are in working order.
My PS3 is also still working great, in spite of its age.
The only thing which I've actually had ruined was an old DS which accidentally got crushed in a bag while traveling, and though sad, I do still have my SP and 3DS, so I can play the games just the same.

As long as you take decent care of them and don't outright abuse them, a consumer electronic can last for quite a long time.

What do you guys think about bit rot?

>>5178452
>We all know better and that disc rot is proven false

I have a disc that actually showed deterioration through the 3-4 dumps I made of it in the period of a few years. By now the last track cannot be ripped. It's from a factory known for its defects.

My old rips still work fine but I can't re rip the disc, the last one or two tracks have a large unreadable chunk.

Once again /vr/ tries to refute this argument with no sources...

>>5179394
Sometimes discs just stop fucking working.

>1997
>get a duplicate copy of a music CD as a gift
>keep one copy in my car and the other unopened copy in a cool, dry basement in a box of other CDs I dont really listen to anymore
>2002
>get an MP3 player
>open the pristine copy and rip it because the car copy is scratched up
>put the pristine CD back into the basement
>2015
>dig out the pristine CD
>track 10 wont rip without errors
>think it might be a problem with my DVD drive
>Happens with every computer
>get a magnifying glass
>tiny fissures around the edge

I wish I had some pictures because it looked kinda weird.

>>5179405
How does one refute random pictures of damaged/degraded discs? Posting random pictures of discs that aren't?

Sorry not sorry

>>5176598
what conservation efforts can we utilize to avoid the effects of rotational velocidensity on old games?

>>5178371
WHOA

>>5179428

Yes, you did it. Thank you.

>>5179405
You don't have to refute false information. You just need the people claiming it provide actual validation besides the same proven false pictures or stories.

>>5179405
Considering I have some early/mid 80's discs that were left in a storage shed for 10+ years that didn't "rot"... I would say our games our fine.

>>5179203
>polly want a cracker?

ITT resellers desperately try to convince themselves and their potential marks that their scummy little cottage industry isn't going to come to an abrupt end.

Good. Fuck videogames.

>>5179894

>>5179898
Based Guardian.

>>5179898
Jesus Christ, how, do people become such good goyim? There's like a single guy in that thread defending ROM distribution and unsurprisingly, he's banned.

>>5179898
>the sewer forum of the internet produces shit opinions and takes
Shocking.

>>5179898

>>5179203
So I 'm assuming you can't use the small toaster oven to cook food again?

>>5180036
Nothing in life is free, but like, there's no argument that holds up as for why you can't digitally distribute a game.

Never came across bitrot yet

>>5180054
Probably not.

>>5179867
>ITT underage poorfags desperately try to convince themselves they aren't both

>>5180138
Your hoard is decaying as we speak, tubs.

>>5180138
t.

>>5176598
Try moving out of the south.

>>5176598
I've seen discs literally left outside for years with less damage than this. What the fuck you store your shit in, nigger??
My dad has CDs from the 80's that still work perfectly for fuck sakes.

I'm not saying disc rot it a myth, but as long as you store shit properly, it'll last a
long fucking time.

The only way we'll ever get the undumped Sega Channel games is if someone finds another disc which, if not in the hands of a hoarder, is rotting in a draw or a abandoned officer or a landfill somewhere.

>>5179371
its like the people who have high console failure rates are hamfisted slobs who never clean anything that shove electronics in cramped spaces with sodas sitting on top of them.

seriously, i had 4 brothers and all we managed to break was a power connector on a snes, a few controllers, and maybe a few game discs. maybe there was the occasional "my name donut steele" label on a controller.

I buy lots of shit on ebay and the amount of it that has been abused and covered in gunk is disgusting.

Nah

>>5180289
>I've seen discs literally left outside for years with less damage than this. What the fuck you store your shit in, nigger??
It might have more to do with the pressing than storage. I've had one CD-ROM turn out like that while others stored in the same place are just fine.

>>5182356
Disc quality can vary wildly.
An anecdote:
As a teenager and young adult I collected music CDs as a primary hobby and a main money pit. I can say that there were some CDs I bought back then that were very durable and still play nice today over 14 years later. On the other hand though, some of them had their track splits in the wrong places and some didnt play at all straight out of the box. I was into punk back then and the worst record label was Mystic. Some of my CDs from back then have disc rot now but 99 percent of the legit pressed ones dont

>>5182356
You play with Sonic dolls?

>>5179371

>pokémon blue still saves

You better back that up and replace the battery soon.

The gen 1 games save batteries are reaching end of life even from just sitting and not being used.

Gen 2 are mostly all burnt out already because the clock uses more power.

>>5182361
>dolls
weak bait

>>5182359
PC games are the ones that are going to delaminate or have holes caused by weather/climate etc. It's best to digitize everything you have in your collection. The one type of media that you want to save at this moment in time is anything on tape. Tape is really susceptible to mold.

>>5182368
Oh I'm sorry. Plushie. You play with Sonic plushies.

>>5182381
Well now you're just embarrassing yourself.

>>5176598
same thing was said about laser disc yet there's still a shitload of them working and they're years older than cd.
>>5176658
i had the best of luck with c64 disks, still do. blank amiga 3.5" disks I had started dying after a few years of constant use. my pc high density 3.5" disks were the worst when it came to reliability no matter how they were stored.

>>5180054
Yeah, using a microwave would be better

>>5182365
I don't really have a worthwhile save on it ATM.
My Ruby's battery DID go dry, however, which saddens me, because that one was one of my favorite GBA games.

>>5182375
God, I can't express in words how glad I am that we aren't using tape media anymore.
VHS and 8-Track was so fucking awful.

>>5182776
8-track and audio cassettes were pretty awful, but as someone who recently started playing with old VCRs for shits, VHS gets more bashing than it warrants. As long as the equipment is in good shape, the tapes aren't abused, and you're using an monitor that doesn't introduce upscaling, VHS quality can come within a stone's throw of DVD, easily, even via composite. I think it's a shame that a lot of people's final memories of SD/analog media were seen through the poorly-tinted lens of early HDTV upscaling.

And with being physical, analog media comes my favorite perk of just about all analog equipment; the sense of control. I fucking hate start-ups, menus, loading times and all that fucking shit. I love how immediate everything is with analog electronics. Seriously low levels of bullshit compared to modern digital media. You feel like you're actually using your devices, instead of your devices using you. I'm not going to be one of those delusional nutjobs who tries to make it sound like VHS is some objectively-god-tier, true and pure way to watch movies, but it's really not as shit as people make it out to be.

>>5182776
>>5182828
Audio cassettes aren't even that bad either. The biggest advantage CDs and DVDs offered over tape media is that you can get decent quality out of a shitty digital player but trash out of a shitty analogue player.

It has been objectively proven that on a high-end tape deck a Type 4 Metal Audio Cassette has equivalent audio reproduction to a CD. The difference in quality is basically not discernible to the human ear. It would probably be wrong to say it sounds *better* but it sounds fucking good. And audio cassettes have a lot of advantages over CDs once you go past the sound reproduction quality.

The real reason people shit on tapes like audio cassettes and VHS is because the typical person's last experience with it was either using either a trash player or using a high-end player which didn't have its heads cleaned for two fucking decades.

>>5179898
Typical RetardEra post in a nutshell. Its like you have to have bad opinions 24/7 to fit in. Its bizarro world over there.

>>5182842
>The difference in quality is basically not discernible to the human ear. It would probably be wrong to say it sounds *better* but it sounds fucking good.
I have to say that the audio coming out of my VHS tapes is certainly extremely good. Very little hiss, and an amazing amount of depth and clarity that makes me wonder why people thought we even needed surround sound. To be fair, my VCR and audio receiver are pretty high-end, though, so it's probably giving me some of the best possible results.

>>5182925
The original VHS audio quality isn't very good but it got an update called VHS Hi-Fi which is supported on some tapes and decks.

The quality of the audio reproduction on VHS Hi-Fi is comparable to what you get on a DVD.

>>5182828
New tapes would have good picture, but as a kid who had nothing to do and ended up rewatching a lot of stuff, quality degraded pretty quickly.

I don't miss the clunk, the audio and video slowly degrading, having to rewind, etc.
When DVDs starting to become common, I was like fucking spellbound. Sure, the rewinding wasn't smooth like on a VHS, but the media was TINY, and you didn't NEED to rewind it, it'd start from the beginning by itself, moreover you could watch it a hundred times and you wouldn't get those lines of static and shit.
Big drawback though was that none of the DVD players we had could record programs or movies off TV, that's something VHS had a big advantage with.

>>5182981
>as a kid who had nothing to do and ended up rewatching a lot of stuff, quality degraded pretty quickly.
Here's the thing though. If you regularly clean the tapes and the tape heads, you get virtually no degradation from playing the tapes. The amount of wear that is inflicted on a tape just by it rubbing against the head is pretty fucking minimal.

But yeah, that's the big failing of tapes as a mass-market medium. The average joe, and kids in particular, weren't gonna look after their tapes and players properly. I personally find tapes cool as fuck. For a music enthusiast they are better than CDs cause you can so easily record onto them compared to optical media making mix tapes is and always will be fun as fuck.

Also, though it's pretty much irrelevant now, portable CD players were literally AIDS compared to portable tape players.

>>5183013
True, I was a kid then, and didn't really know about maintenance or anything.
For portable CD players, I did have one, but it didn't fit in my pocket, and didn't have a clip on, so I never used it.

>>5182981
>When DVDs starting to become common, I was like fucking spellbound. Sure, the rewinding wasn't smooth like on a VHS, but the media was TINY, and you didn't NEED to rewind it, it'd start from the beginning by itself, moreover you could watch it a hundred times and you wouldn't get those lines of static and shit.
This was a huge appeal for me as well. I got my first DVD player for Christmas of 2002 and it blew my mind. It was also around the time I started having my own disposable income, so my friends and I would basically hit up stores on a weekly basis looking for movies and TV series to buy. It was so awesome.

But now that it's easy to get everything streamed right to your TV in HD at a moments' notice, pretty much all physical media is pointless, especially if you're down with piracy. Even just 5 years ago, I would have laughed at other VHS enthusiasts, but honestly, I get it now. There's a sense of charm and nostalgia for people who grew up in pre-DVD times, and at this point, I've seen all of my favorite movies so many times in 1080p on a 50-something-inch screen that it's more worthwhile to seek out that nostalgia kick, even if it means watching the movie on a worn-out tape on my 20" CRT. And really, if the movie is good enough, after about 5 minutes, you won't even notice the little visual imperfections and artifacts; you'll just get reinvested in the movie. I recently popped in a copy of Star Trek IV that was sitting in my sock drawer for like 10 years, just to see how it played. I ended up watching the whole thing because it's a great movie, regardless of format.

>>5183067
I mean, I DO get why someone would seek out VHS and stuff like that, but personally, I find things like laserdisc much more fascinating. I went through the low end of the VHS experience in my youth, and I think that I wouldn't benefit from going back to it even on the high end.
For laserdisc, I've never seen one in person (I never knew anyone who had it), but they feel like this old novel, obsolete excellence. High quality picture and audio, but the disc is the size of an old vinyl record, and a movie is on multiple discs, so you gotta get up and switch multiple times (admittedly, a good excuse as any to go to the bathroom or to go get a drink or meal). I have no nostalgia for one, and frankly I don't have the space or money to go invest in something like that, but just the oddity of it fascinates me.

I'd love to just watch Predator on laser disc sometime, maybe some old James Bond films.
One thing that really got me curious about it is how I learned that a lot of the bonus material on some of my favorite films was actually originally made for collector's editions of movies on laserdisc (like Ghostbusters), just transferred to DVD.
Commentary tracks was a thing that I thought of as new and novel when DVD came around, but it was actually quite a lot older.

>>5183107
Analog is more fun than digital. That's a fact.

>>5183123
Unironically this.

>>5183107
Part of my falling out with DVDs came from the fact that I stopped caring about bonus content. I was so excited by the idea of bloopers and storyboards and deleted scenes and commentaries when DVDs first hit shelves, but nowadays you couldn't pay me to pretend to give a shit.

>>5183150
Honestly, bloopers and deleted scenes are almost never interesting, they're hugely overrated as a feature. Terminator 2 had some interesting ones, mostly because some of the deleted scenes have some very elaborate and complex practical effects shots which was never seen before. I struggle to think of many more examples.

Commentary tracks can however sometimes be very interesting and entertaining, and if there's Making Of shorts included, *sometimes* that can be great, especially with older movies, because I love classic propmaking, makeup and practical effects, so it's really cool to see how some things are done, given that sometimes an effect or prop might require some very specific kind of problem solving.

>>5182383
>blank amiga 3.5" disks I had started dying after a few years of constant use
Sucks that it's impossible to buy new DD disks. Even new old stock disks tend to work poorly because some lubrication dries out or whatever.

>>5183170
Can they be relubed?

>>5183185
Doubtful, I don't even know how to open one up without destroying at least one part.

>>5183160
Very good points. You could add, though, that "behind the scenes" material is also inherently less interesting the more modern a movie is, since just about every visual effect is now achieved with green screen and about 300 underpaid dudes with rendering programs.

>>5183196
That's true, modern effects are seldom very interesting in how they're achieved, which is why I get a sense of delight when they do practical ones, and also why I look around for old movies with interesting things going for them.

>>5178371
KEK

>>5182776

Fortunately, Ruby only uses the battery to run the RTC. You can still play and save your data, but the clock won’t advance when the game is off.

If you replace the battery you have to suck with your .sav file to make it recognize the clock was reset too.

>>5178392
>>5179185
For real

>>5183107
I bought a laserdisc player earlier this year. Before then I'd never even used one before. The biggest motivation for me to get one was the content that was still only available on laserdisc, namely the numerous computer animation compilations. Some of them are on DVD, but not all.

>>5182828
>As long as the equipment is in good shape, the tapes aren't abused, and you're using an monitor that doesn't introduce upscaling, VHS quality can come within a stone's throw of DVD, easily, even via composite.
Now that's most definitely exaggeration.

Big difference is that VHS stores video in composite with a really low chroma and luminance resolutions, which makes it even worse quality than analog broadcast television, even with brand new tapes and equipment. DVD stores component video which is superior by technical standards alone.

>>5184354
At least S-VHS fixed the luminescence issue.

Of course, tapes that were capable of fantastic analog picture quality already existed in the form of Betacam, but shit was expensive as fuck.

nes cartridges will most likely outlive ps4 discs

>>5184363
And you could even get analog HD with W-VHS, but that was only available in Japan.

>>5176608
i've seen a person home burn down and the insurance company refuse his claim because of those shitty capacitors.

>>5183932
Timed events won't work either, which was some of the post Elite Four fun.
Honestly I'm just accepting that it's gone, I'll just outright emulate Emerald on PC instead some day.

By the way, was there any GameShark or Action Replay codes to switch out my starter for something else?

>>5184617

Changing the battery is super easy, takes 5 minutes at most.

And probably easier to just use a save editor to change the starter.

>>5185242
>save editor
Ah! Of course!

>>5182975
>it got an update called VHS Hi-Fi which is supported on some tapes and decks.
It's on most of them going back to 1985. It's more uncommon for a VHS or VCR to NOT be Hi-Fi compatible, especially once the '90s hit.

Library of Congress finished a study on the longevity of printed CD's. The result was that CD's will live anywhere from 25 - 500 years. The varying lifespan depends on manufacture quality as well as temperature, humidity etc etc. Some CD's will certainly die in a few year. But not all of them.

>>5187861
Pretty much what I had assumed.
500 years is PRETTY fucking impressive though, wonder how one determines the optimal production quality, and the optimal storage method?

>>5187881

https://www.loc.gov/preservation/resources/rt/studyofCDlongevity.pdf

>>5178308
With enough copies of that disc, it should be possible to compile a working copy by overlapping the data.

>>5178308
I still can't get over this.
>"disc rot is real, let me prove it to you by posting an image of a laserdisc which has very obviously been scratched"