/vr/ - Retro Games

>>5175916
I mostly agree that every modern game is rife with flaws because they're trying to be too complex.

Graphical glitches because they're rendering too much.

Terrible systems that actually make the game less fun for the sake of length or nickel and dimeing customers.

Bloated length for the sake of "value" instead of having a good, tight campaign.

I generally prefer retro games and spend most of my time playing them but I'll play some Skyrim or Dark Souls once in a while. There are also cool indie games to play sometimes like Salt & Sanctuary and Hyper Light Drifter

no, there are plenty of great modern games you retard.

try looking at something beside AAA crap

Most retro games are too simple and rife with artificial difficulty for me to spend more than an hour on. I mainly emulate them on the go. Their arcade-y nature makes them better suited for short bursts of gameplay when I need to kill time.

Also you’re a faggot.

>>5175916

I quit playing videogames after PlayStation 3. Consoles have nothing new to offer and there are no more innovative games. I only play retro platformer shooters. I was hoping for Nintendo Switch, but it has no games worth buying.

>>5175962
>artificial difficulty

Preach, bro! Haha can I repost this to r/truegaming? Possibly a few of my retro gaming Facebook groups too? :)

>>5175973
I’m sorry your biggest accomplishments in life are moving pixels across a screen.

>>5175976
classic reddit
next you'll tell me I'm fun at parties and then ask who hurt me

>>5175916
Based and redpilled.

>>5175916
This

>>5175929
This too.

My biggest gripe about modern games is that they fail at videogame basics that were perfefted decades ago.

>racing games then: pick a course, car, race type and go. There were career or tournament modes of varying lengths as well as two player modes. But not all games had or needed them
>racing games now: career mode only for single player, every course, race type and car variable is limited or set in stone. Career mode is 15-20 hours at minimum, and it's mostly the same 3 things over and over with progressively faster cars. Multiplayer is online only.
>JRPGs then: start out slow, build up your team, buy shit, customise, etc. There's plot, but there's gameplay to match. Minigames and additional fun content abound
>JRPGs now, part one: it's a literal tunnel with tons of battles and cutscenes where they just drop you in, in the middle of a scene. No other gameplay or content at all.
>JRPGs now, part two: it's a fuck huge open world with nothing in it but things to fight and NPCs to talk to. All side queats are monster hunts, there's customisation, but by end game you'll have every ability and stat maxed anyway. Gameplay consists of holding or mashing a button
>fighting games then: 8-12 solid characters, and maybe some unlockables and pallette swaps. AI sucks, but buddies and the arcade acene are good fun. Many console versions have single player content, like extra modes (tekken ball) and endings for every character
>fighting games now: 30 starting characters and another 15-30 dlc and add ons. AI is better, and online play actually helps with mp, but the game is so badly balanced that everyone ends up using the same 3 characters all the time. Single.player content is usually shit visual mods, and a "campaign" mode that blows ass. Generally one story and ending in the game's entirety. But hey, there's boob physics and dress up costumes!

I could fo on, but I feel like I'm just wasting my breath.

>>5175981
Classic brainlet. You’re gonna keep repeating Reddit until I stop replying- which is now.

Have the last word, anon.

>>5175987
The reason people always pick the same character isn't because of bad balance, fighters are more balanced than ever before, they pick the same characters because they're a bunch of fucking faggots copying whoever won Evo last year.

>>5175973
Not him but the term artificial difficulty is legit and it goes back a decade before reddit was established.

The guns in festers quest (and it's sister game. blaster master) are a perfect example of this. The games are not that difficult if your weapons were function but they are very very poorly designed. Possibly the most poorly implemented "powerup" in vdieo game hsitory.

The first massive flaw is the "right handed gunner" problem. The gun is severely offset to the right of your chararacter and when you are walking up/north in a narrow corridor you literally cannot shoot at enemies in front of you if they are even slightly to the left of center. All your shots will pass them on the right, and there is nothing you can do about it.

The next massive flaw was the wave or spiral patterns of the projectiles, and how if even on part of your projectile touched a sidewall your entire barrage of projectiles would be suddenly erased. your entire attack had to be clear of both walls or it would be nullified, but since projectiles didn't shoot straight that means you can't shoot at all when in narrow corridors unless your gun was at a specific pwoerup level. Only certain gun powerups were functional and shot straight, and if you accidentally picked up a powerup at a bad time and switched to the next terrible gun it was pretty much death or you had to leave the area.

I seem to recall the detrimental powerup items also don't ever vanish after they drop so they end up becoming obstacles that block your path and sometimes you have no choice but to walk over them to advance.

Dying in the game meant returning to the very start of the game too. So not only do the mechanics fucking cheat you and kill you frequently, any death means more or less restarting the entire game. This was a blatant case of artificial difficulty and it came about from developers who simply gave no fucks to fix the flaws.

>>5176021
Yeah but that doesn't mean the game is artificially made harder by the developers wanting to make them hard. It boils down to them thinking that those decision were good game design, when in fact they weren't. But on the other hand. There are cases, where developer would increase the difficulty for games, so that if you rented a game you couldn't beat it in one sitting and never rent or buy said game.

>>5175989
I mean he's not wrong. Super predictable shaming tactics, which can be concisely labeled reddit.

>>5176039
Super predictable shaming tactic, like calling someone or something Reddit? I do hope you see the hypocrisy in what you’re saying.

>>5175916

Sometimes play modern games when they feature solid game play. Stuff like dragon's crown, mana remake, battle chasers and dragon quest XI. I totally hate the retarded indie games. And i cant stand triple AAA games. They give me diarrhea. Fighting games are DEAD in 2018. Racing games are deader than dead. And shooting games were ruined by polygons.
Even consoles are dead at this point, as they are all low spec nvidia/amd driven PC's now.

It's funny how more and more gamers turn their backs on today's industry in favor of retro gaming.

In all honesty, the $ony psychopaths and the microsoft lamers fucked gaming beyond repair in their endless quest for profit maximizing. Fuck them. Don't feed them any more money.

>>5176056
This reads like a damn parody. Go outside and get some fresh air, would ya?

>>5176056
>$ony psychopaths
>Microsoft lamers
You are the epitome of cringe

>>5176039
that isn’t exclusive to reddit dumbass. it’s the same on here too. people strawman each other and attempt to sweep their opinion under the rug because it’s easier than accepting different views

>>5175916
Nice meme. Now show hands.

>>5176056
>And i cant stand triple AAA games
those fucking shit AAAAAAAAA games

>>5176021
A better term for what you describe is "accidental difficulty", not "artificial difficulty." That term is borrowed from "accidental complexity" which is a programming term that means code complexity that comes as a result of bad design, human error, or bugs in the platform rather than being an essential part of the problem you need to solve

Artificial difficulty is a term that is almost never used properly. Technically, fake difficulty means "not actually more difficult, it just feels more difficult because enemies have more hitpoints or some other trivial stat change." The idea being that if you have the skill to overcome an enemy with 100 hitpoints, overcoming an enemy with 1,000 takes no additional skill it just takes more time. RNG is another thing that gets accused of being "fake difficulty." Basically, the idea is that if you have a scenario where your success is due to random chance, that's artificial difficulty because there's no way you can actually improve and get better other than trying repeatedly until you get a positive result.

The overwhelming majority of the time, people whining about artificial difficulty have no clue what they're talking about and simply see "RNG is a factor" or "enemy has lots of hitpoints or high DPS" and immediately points and squawks "artificial difficulty!" despite their being many legitimate design reasons to include such dynamics.

>>5175916
>AI hasn't advanced since PS2
Videogame AI has never been on the cutting edge of the field. The reason is that super-smart AI does not necessarily make for better gameplay. Some videogames would not even work if you went for any kind of realistic AI.

Games always implement a subset of reality and thus they also implement some subset of Artificial Intelligence tailored to that specific game.

>>5175916
I do play the occasional modern game, but most of my time is spent with retro, but haven't completely written off modern games since really enjoyed MH:W, Cuphead, Hollow Knight and only recently finished Witcher series. (games I played in the last month)

>>5175976
We're talking about videogames faggot and challenge is a legitimate aspect of videogames.
>>5175962
Odds are that anyone whining about "artificial difficulty" in retro games has no fucking clue what they are talking about and is just fucking lazy.
If you actually have a point to make, elaborate on what you mean and make a real point. Trying to mock people for actually talking about challenge in videogames just reinforces the fact that you're a fucking lazy piece of shit. Which, you actually feel guilty about otherwise >>5175973 wouldn't have gotten under your skin the way it did.

>>5175916
I don't get why you guys just ignore that indie games exist.

>>5176021
Nobody ever said the term didn't have valid use. He is talking about the tards that keep using the term wrongly, that are like:

>Game has limited continues
"artificial difficulty"
>Game has a punishment for losing all your lives
"artificial difficulty"
>Game makes you restart a level for dying
"Artificial difficulty"
>Game doesn't let you savescum by rewinding every five seconds
"Artificial difficulty.

I have seen people literally argue that last one on /vr/. Someone talking about how the game should you "master that part instead of going through parts you have already mastered" again.

>>5176051
he highlighted specific terms for ridicule relevant to the discussion. Sure it was mean, but this is 4chan get a thicker skin. You got butthurt and retorted with personal shaming that nobody wants to see.

>>5176095
I've noticed that for some reason people just automatically hate on Indie games thinking that all of them are some quirky tumblr tier omega pixelated shit.

>>5176095
Yeah, indie gaming is a godsend and the only kind of modern games I play nowadays.
It's pretty neat that with new tools and the internet one or two dudes can make a good game by themselves like in the 80's.

>>5176056
>Fighting games are DEAD in 2018
Fighting games have been more popular in these past three years than they've been since the turn of the century.

>>5176090
Games can't even design enemy AI to play the way a bad player would play. They're just random and then they increase the difficulty by making the AI cheat.

>>5176132
it depends on the game

>>5176101
>thinking that all of them are some quirky tumblr tier omega pixelated shit
Which is the case for 90% of them.

>>5176147
It isn't but ok

>SJW complains
Here we go

>SJW
Just go back to fucking /pol/ and complain there, your sweaty post isn't even worth looking at.

old = good
new = bad

It's always been the law of the land

The last good system was the PS2

and indiecuckery doesn't count

>>5176196
>>5176204

There's still lots of good games being made, it's just that the dynamic has shifted and it's typically the indie studies which are making them, not the AAA ones.

>>5176229

Yes, liberals doing mediocre 8 bit ripoffs of better games, with added progressiveness or pretentious walking simulators made by balding fucks that masturbate to their own creations.

>>5175916
I completely understand your pain and have largely thought just like you did. I think ever since gen 5 even you could see a massive shift in the thinking of developers and even what games the people want. I think there is a few reasons that can explain this.

>developers/publishers have been purposefully conditioning people to want these modern type of games
>shiny graphics and movie shit actually would always appeal to normies
>2D has just about been perfected at this point with everything just being clones of already done before games usually
>games run on fads and people always want to just buy the next shiny new thing instead of caring much for older games (even if its only a couple years old)
>the people actually never really liked games, they always wanted experiences instead

That last one is a big one. If you've been autistically following this gaming shit for years I'm sure you have seen over and over again people referring to games not as games but as experiences to be had. Often they may say the game was a great experience. This applies to the gaming media and fans. So many so called fans don't even care unless a game tells a compelling story and makes them feel a certain way. Gameplay comes secondary to these people. I truly believe these types outnumber true gamers by a very wide margin. Just look at the used game market. People largely never gave two shits about games. Its cheap entertainment for them to experience and toss to the side. Not for fun addicting gameplay. Even many of the best selling games is actually a drop in the damn bucket to the overall population playing games. A lot more people will have "experienced" Infinity War for example than ever played RDR2.

>>5176196

Very low IQ?

>>5176229
The only decent indie games that have come out in the past five years are Shovel Knight and A Hat In Time.

>>5176062

Cringe a little harder you stinking cunt.

>>5175997
May be so for Tekken, but you're wrong regarding DBFZ and SFV.
Give or take UMVC3.
>>5175987
Define Eternal Sonata.

>>5175962
>artificial difficulty
stopped reading there, opinion discarded

people sure like to make up fancy terms for “I suck at games”

>>5176132
>>5176135
but what they say is the usual fare, definitely

I was looking at Red Dead Redemption 2 AI in videos and it was blatantly obvious they were programmed to miss their shots at the player character 90% of the time, and just by a hair's length
Even when only a yard or two away

>>5176127
>Fighting games have been more popular in these past three years than they've been since the turn of the century.
So has 4chan.
of course, swap out "turn of century" for "last decade"

>>5175916
yeah sjws DO ruin anything, anyway remember how cool the 80s were? god i miss he-man and how at the end of every episode he'd look right at the camera and go "remember to be nice and respectful of other people, and to never judge them based on their appearances or your misconceptions without getting to know them first" and the way he'd always just... try to be nice to skeletor and reason with him instead of trying to kill him

fucking bleeding heart liberals can't handle REAL storytelling like that anymore

>>5176305

The sort of passive-aggressive reply only a butthurt marxist subhuman can give.

>>5176310
not super, dude, it's just really funny but also extremely sad to watch people who grew up with incredibly gentle, progressive, and kindness-oriented media endlessly pine for the bygone era of that stuff while at the same time 100% completely rejecting everything it ever tried to expose them to
you have to laugh desu no matter how sad it is

>>5176231
>>5176248
Look at all this cherry picking. Are you making a pie?

>>5176217
>>5176245
Not an argument you incel

>>5175916
Pretty much my thoughts too
PS1 was the last great system before things went to the shit as the PS2 era carried on

>>5175987
take me back anon...

>>5176090
>q3a is the peak of game ai, prove me wrong

>>5176337

Back to your containment thread.

>>5176305
80s kid here

everyone thought he man was a fag and skelletor was based af

also thundercats was faggy yiff furry shit

jason and the wheeled warriors was where it was at,find a flaw fag

>>5176321
It's Thanksgiving, so yes.

>>5176217
Slurp shit and die mungmuncher

>>5176356

Did it hurt your feelings? Am i a Nazi?

>>5176346
He Man made a shitload of money and was insanely popular. Slightly older kids definitely mocked him but acting like all the popular 80's cartoons weren't basically toy commercials with blunt moral lessons is nostalgic wanking at its worst.

>>5176358
I think he actually hurt your feelings. You aren't a nazi, just an immature adult who doesn't really know how to interact with people.

>remakes
fuck off

>>5176363
>no u

Is that all the banter you can muster?

>>5176250
Tekken, Soul Calibur, Smash, Guilty Gear, and Mortal Kombat are more balanced than ever before. I don't give a fuck about street fighter. Fighterz didn't even fucking exist before so that's a retarded point.

>>5176365
I'm sorry, I thought this was a thread about pissing our pants in rage over broad generalizations made about newer games.

>>5176379

It's far from broad, though.

I just wanna go back, back to 1999
Take a ride to my old neighborhood
I just wanna go back, sing
"Hit me baby, one more time"
Wanna go back, wanna go
Yeah, I just wanna go back
Nike Airs, all that
CD, old Mercedes
Drive 'round listening to Shady like, oh
Never under pressure, oh
Those days it was so much better, oh
Feelin' cool in my youth, relaxin'
No money, no problem
It was easy back then
Ooh, wish that we could go back in time,
Got memories
Ooh, maybe we could do it tonight
Tonight's the night
I just wanna go back, back to 1999
Take a ride to my old neighborhood
I just wanna go back, sing
"Hit me baby, one more time"
Wanna go back, wanna go
Yeah, I remember back home
Best friends, all night, no phone
No cares, I was dumb and so young
My room singing Michael Jackson
Never under pressure,
Those days it was so much better,
Feelin' cool in my youth
I'm askin', "Does anyone remember how we did it back then?"
Ooh, wish that we could go back in time,
Got memories
Ooh, maybe we could do it tonight
Tonight's the night
I just wanna go back, back to 1999
Took a ride to my old neighborhood
I just wanna go back, sing
"Hit me baby, one more time"
Wanna go back, wanna go
Back to where we came from
Playin' air guitar on the roof
In the kitchen, up on the table
Like we had a beautiful view
I wanna go
I just wanna go back, back to 1999
Ah, yeah

>>5175916
based and redpilled

capitalism ruined video games

>>5175916
remember in doom how you get the enemies to shoot each other, goldeneye had good ai too.
I like modern games for their physics but I expected games to have totally destructible environments by now, I would even sacrifice the graphics.
There was a freeware game called voxelstein 3d that had 100% destructable terain. Using procedural generation it should be possible to make a gta game where you can go in every single building.
I like modern gaming but its just a lot of them are trying to be movies.

>>5176248
>>5176231
Nah I can name at least 6-10 games right off the top of my head that are good and aren't pixlated liberal walking sims.

>>5175916
You know a new sonic, castlevania, igavania and megaman JUST came out and they play the exact same shit as the originals.

>>5175916
>anyone else here and angsty teen redditor who likes to blog on 4chan
Yes. Not me. But this place is infested with your kind. But there are mature people here, with no age chip on their shoulder or need to prove their retro cred, who can enjoy playing nearly any game as long as it's fun.

>>5176409
Gah, meant to say metroid.

>>5176324
>incel
Yeah that's gonna be a yikes for me

>>5176409
Also all of those were made by americans. Hmmm notice a pattern?

>>Anyone else only play retro games or remakes?

To an extent. I get my multiplayer PVP fix from LoL and TF2 while casually paying attention to new releases from series that I enjoyed when I was younger like Hitman 2, MGS5, RE7, etc. I haven't purchased Hitman 2 yet, but I genuinely enjoy the gameplay of Absoluation and Hitman 2016. RE7 and MGS5 are flawed, but still great. Beyond series that I grew up with, I don't really pay attention to new games. I would like to finish every PS1 jrpg ever made before I die lol.

I don't do it on purpose, its just that my backlog is so big that it happens to be mostly retro games by coincidence. Maybe in 5 years I'll catch up to the modern age.

>>5175987
>but the game is so badly balanced that everyone ends up using the same 3 characters all the time

Frequent player of fighters both retro and modern here and this isn't true at all.

>>5176321
>indie games
>cherry picking
There's no other way to do it, anon. That's the whole fucking point of an indie market. You have open publishing platforms and low barriers to entry to let any developer produce a game, while letting the market figure out how to filter and cherry-pick the quality games from the volumes of garbage.

>>5176305
>remember to be nice and respectful of other people, and to never judge them based on their appearances or your misconceptions without getting to know them first
"Don't be a bigot" is actually good message and doesn't explicitly embed any particular politics or ideology beyond the kind of basic tolerance you need to have a functioning society. It's not trying to brainwash you into believing there are 40 genders or that gender is a choice. It's not promoting gay parents or blacked.com and it's not Muslim propaganda. It's not demonizing any political affiliation or outlook.

>>5176253
>but what they say is the usual fare, definitely
>I was looking at Red Dead Redemption 2 AI
I haven't played that one, really can't comment.
The last non-vr game I played was Dark Souls 3 and that AI was fine. People bash on it but that's because they're stupid and don't understand that the AI is really not designed to be like a fucking player most of the time (that's what PvP is for).

>>5175916

Good retro shit is made all the time.In fact even in the exact series you gave; Megaman 11, Zelda a link between worlds. and Sonic Mania. Then there are a bunch of indie titles you can play.

But you'll dismiss it all as you don't want good games; you want nostalgia

That picture is BS, OP.

>>5176837
lol bumpmapping

>>5176714
Get fucked poltard nigger.

>>5175916
I play whatever I like...plenty of modern stuff is good if you filter out the cinematic pleb shit, just like how tons of retro games are broken pieces of shit licensed games that are meant to be avoided.

You can say all modern games are shit because you don't have hindsight on them to know what's good like you do with old games...they've all been quantified and only what is good is remembered, the rest forgotten to time, but trust me, retro games had just as much shit as now, maybe even more, because the games were easier and cheaper to pump out with just a few guys, so companies could just rapid-fire shlock all day erry day.

>>5177043
The jews did 9/11 and want to kill every white person.

>>5176310
I am a marxist and prefer retro vidya
though mainstream pop culture since after ww2 has been degenerate consumer shit
>>5176454
christian whitehead is an aussie

>>5176714
Cool "us vs them" strawman bro, you should write a blog about it over at infowars, maybe you'll feel better

>>5177069
If you are a marxist, are you white, or a fellow white?

If you are white how come you can live with yourself? You must have extreme personality issues and must be extremely easyto push around IRL. Did you get bullied because of your weight or something?

A white person defending marxism is like a cow defending the slaughterhouse.

>>5175916
>small graphics improvements 99% of people won't give a single fuck about due to DIMINISHING RETURNS.

That image was proven to be a load of crap ages ago. You don't build today's graphics off smoothening low poly models.

>>5177113

This.

>>5176305
The irony is that then, we all laughed at the forced moral lessons in those cartoons, the "winners don't do drugs" messages or the laughable multicultural heroes like Captain Planet and his team.
Even leftist authors like Matt Groening or Tim Burton have poked fun at those things in some interviews. Anyway, for some reason, now that forced morals and are considered cool and progressive. Even The Simpsons is being attacked by the left as Ronald Reagan did back in those days.

>>5177113
What if I told you that marxism and communism in general has nothing to do with skin colors? I know Americans love to throw the word 'communism' at everything that isn't the casino capitalist mindset they've got but even marxism itself has several interpretations of it, itself being an interpretation of 19th century communism.

I don't even like actual communism but come one, you can't lump it together with social democrats or universal values like equal treatment and act it's all the same. That's like saying Doom, colonists of catan and playing marbles are the same thing regardless because they're all related to the word 'game'. Anyone familiar with /vr/ games knows how diverse things can actually be once you do some research.

>>5175916
Video games went the way of cinema, where the only things that truly turn in profit are the bombastic SFX pieces which can be enjoyed by all. The plot exists only to justify the action, and the characters are archetypes or just collections of clichés.
All of that applies to video games, but there is an additional effect - the mechanics of games continue to be simplified and made more accessible, so people will see more of the pretty SFX spectacle.
It was inevitable as soon as games started to make noticeable money. Businessmen want to decrease risks and costs as much as possible, so the only thing that will receive the lion's share of budget are those which guarantee profit.
What's that thing? Graphics. Well, there's also the most trendy genre or mechanics on top of that, but that's clear enough.

>>5177043
apparently you're the one who has a problem with a straightforward anti-bigotry message you fucking nazi

>>5177154
Jesus you people are retarded. It’s literally the conservative right that crusaders against curse words in media, depictions of religious objects and interracial relationships. It’s always been the conservative right decrying video games, calling them the devil and claiming they make kids murderers.

>>5175916
>There's nothing to do but small graphics improvements
You've got it the wrong way around OP, the problem is single-threaded CPU performance hit a massive wall a decade ago and we've had small incremental improvements since (ever diminishing). The problem is we no longer have massively increasing CPU and graphics power to make hugely impressive leaps with. New games just can't squeeze more stuff into that ~8 or ~16ms frame budget.

>>5177267
More so they can't afford to spend the money paying people to create those expensive assets. Also I just give zero fucks. We're pretty much on par with Pixar, the only reason those movies look better is because of the painstaking frame by frame animation, which games will never have.

>>5177263
It's both.

>>5177263
based retard

>>5175916
You're like some deviant form of the little kids who post "I was born in the wrong generation!" on Youtube music video comments.

>>5177516
/vr/ in 2018, anyone??

>>5176837
underage replying about something you don't understand is BS, newfriend

>>5175916
i don't make it exclusive, but I tend to only play games. I don't mind the explosion of features (in fact, the over-detailed nature of older business games is one of their great appeals to me.) in modern games, and I can usually manage the performance requirements, but as a general rule they're always less cohesive. There are always bugs unchecked, signs of rushing, consequences of exponentially growing complexity of actually creating the game.
The main thing I see in older games is that even though I know how the future turned out, when I play older games I can still channel the future they seemed to point to, the one we didn't get.

I'm not blinded by nostalgia goggles. I can follow things up to the 360 era, and after that consoles outright became PC hardware, with the exception of the Switch which I can see some appeal in. But there's definitely a 'lost futures' element to my interest in retrogaming.

>>5176095
Indie games operate in a completely different sphere to old games, especially old games made by the major developers of the time. The individual and technical challenges differ greatly.
If an Indie programmer runs into the problem that modern computer hardware can't run their game, it's almost certainly because they've screwed up rather than because they're at the bleeding edge and need to think up a clever technical solution to deliver on their idea.

>>5176305
Lou Scheimer was a moralfag who had the PTA look over the scripts to make sure they were as uncontroversial as possible.