/vr/ - Retro Games

>>5174835
>sequence break the game on your first run
>wonder why you're having a mediocre experience

You really should try to play it "the right way" first.

>play a 100 hour sandbox RPG
>use an exploit to get most OP gear in the game right from the start on your first run
good job retard, have fun watching paint dry for those 100 hours

>It's another "Older, so better" shitposting how FO2 is "sooo bad"

>>5174835
Oh and forgot about this:
New Vegas has a fuck ton of references to both Fallout 1 and 2, but mostly 2. There are even recurring characters. Not to mention that one of the main factions in NV comes directly from Fallout 2.

>>5174861
>>5174886

I finished the first Fallout in about 13 hours, and in FO2 I still basically run from everything. I didn't like combat in the first Fallout either, the reason I did the power armor exploit in FO2 is to make combat easy when I'm forced to do it. Other than that I always play diplomat/peaceful solution fags in RPGs when they let me.

>>5174897
All Fallout games have tons of combat and you're supposed to be playing a smooth talking sniper stacking +crit perks.

>>5174889
>on /vr/
>doesn't like the 'older is better' attitude
Maybe you should rethink some of your decisions

>>5174897
Conversely speaking, I really enjoy the combat system in OG Fallout.

You're not going to enjoy this game.

>>5174835
You are a fucking retard.
Why the FUCK you went directly for Navarro run, you absolute moron? WHY?! I can understand people planning ahead with Gecko Skinning (which is gamey, but doesn't break shit) or save-scumming followers level-ups, but if you are doing Navarro Run on your first playthrough, you deserve that horrible experience you've got. Because you fucked it all up by yourself for no fucking reason other than being brain-dead faggot.

>>5174906
Quake 3? Pfftt. Now Quake 2, that was a great game.

>>5174906
I'm not following it, because I'm not a /v/ tourist trying to fit in, unlike increasingly large percentage of posters.
I like specific games for them being good, not because they are X years old

>>5174908
>unironically enjoying "aim for the eyes and do literally nothing else during your turn" simulator: the game.

>>5174917
>not doing that

I hope your day gets better, anon

>>5174917
>Implying this is the only way the game can be played
>Implying there aren't more efficient ways of killing things
>Implying eye-gouging ins't just the most boring shit to do in Fallouts that average scrub does, because he is too afraid to even try experimenting easier, faster and more engaging ways of killing things
I bet when you play modern Fallouts, you just go full retarded with max stealth, because it provides modifiers to damage, thinking this is most efficient or fun way of doing it

>>5174915
Then you have to concede that sometimes earlier entries in a series are, in fact, better. Also, you must understand that video game taste, as with all media, is pretty subjective. The fact that someone prefers an older entry in a series more than the one you do doesn't necessarily mean they're some try-hard hipster.

>>5174925
I'm a boomer and that's how we used to play through 1 & 2. It's especially hilarious if you go high luck + the Sniper perk, you can one shot kill everything in the game, just stand in place and shoot in the eyes, repeat till everyone's dead.

The game's combat system is not automatically "deep and nuanced" just because it's turn-based. BG2 and IWD had way better combat systems to give an example.

no time limit, was my thing about it. i hate time limits. majora's mask was tolerable b/c you could reset it. fallout 1's made the game no fun at all.

>>5174958
There is a time limit though. The Enclave eventually attacks your village. And they also attack that vault with intelligent deathclaws, not sure if it's preventable though.

>>5174929
There is a difference between "earlier instalments tend to be better" and "older is always superior". The fact I need to explain this means you don't understand anything than binaries.

>>5174938
Why the FUCK you still use aimed shots with fucking 10 LK and Sniper, you moron? You bother with aiming only and only when you don't have Sniper. With Sniper it literally doesn't matter, you are going to murder them anyway.

And nobody (or at least not me) made a claim the system is deep or nuanced. But the fact you don't even understand how your own fucking build is supposed to work speaks volume how you have no right to speak about that combat system in the first place.

>>5174964
That time limit is superflous in FO2. They ALWAYS attack village, no matter how fast you pull this shit. You can save-edit yourself to get GECK and they are going to attack village, despite zero time have passed since you left it just to the map screen, didn't move an inch.
There IS a time limit of different kind. Due to script limitation, the game simply runs out of time in what? 15 years? 16? Something like that. But the game can be finished, without any rushing, below 8 months.

>>5174975
Aiming for different body parts gives different effects. Aiming for the eyes gives 4x dmg and a chance of instant death.
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Critical_Hit#Critical_effects

>>5174970
But no one said fallout 1 was better solely because its older. In fact, the people that did prefer it cited many different reasons why they preferred it to the second installment. The fact that you interpreted all of those opinions as "older is better" just highlights both your lack of reading comprehension and your capricious hangups.

>>5174980
... you can achieve the same effect without aiming, just going for the torso (where non-aimed shots go). It's in the very fucking same table you just send me. Did you read it? Or are you too stupid to even do that?
You literally have no fucking clue why the 10 LK Sniper is such powerful build and use it for achieving fucking aimed eye crits. Like what the fuck? The entire point of that build is to go for Fast Shot, Bonus Rate of Fire, two ranks of Action Boy and murder 4 dudes (or more, since burst weapons are a thing) per turn without even slowing down to do anything else than click.
And you go for aimed shots. With Sniper. And 10 LK.

>>5174981
Are you doing it on purpose? Because I would understood if you would do this on purpose. I really would.
What I can't get is if this just happens for you.

>>5174986
Not saying that you're wrong, Fast Shot can be powerful LATE GAME even in Fallout 1 where you can fast shot your Turbo Plasma Rifle like 9000 times per turn. HOWEVER, Sniper is a lvl 24 perk in Fallout 2, have fun getting there without aimed shots.

>>5174981
Literally EVERY. SINGLE. FUCKING. THREAD on /vr/ about Fallout 2 for past three years is about shitting on it purposefully, while intentionally ignoring absolutely every imaginable arguments defending it or pointing out Fallout 1 either did the same shit or was even worse. The whole MemOut 2 meme originated from those threads
You would know, if you weren't here since yesterday. Instead, you are surprised people are sick and tired with Fallout 2 thread opening with "lel, what a boring load of shit". And fucking complaining about lack of reading comprehension. Seriously? You are going to complain about reading comprehension? An illiterate faggot who didn't even read OP's post, but jumps in the middle of a discussion?

>>5174992
AND WHEN THE FUCK YOU ARE GOING TO GET SNIPER PERK IF NOT IN THE LATE GAME YOU FUCKING RETART?!
>HOWEVER, Sniper is a lvl 24 perk in Fallout 2, have fun getting there without aimed shots.
Absolutely and perfectly doable. The trick is simple - you must actually know how to play this game, rather than regurgitating "Sniper LK 10 aimed for eyes" meme like you are doing so far

Congrats, you've rilled me for real with your fucking ignorance and acting smug about it.

>>5174994
Nah man, "Fallout 1 is better than Fallout 2" is a very old RPG Codex meme, they've been going on at it at least for the last 15 years.

Also, to stay on topic, here's another reason Fallout 2's story made no fucking sense:
https://twitter.com/ChrisAvellone/status/569989754285989888

>>5174986
>The entire point of that build is to go for Fast Shot, Bonus Rate of Fire, two ranks of Action Boy and murder 4 dudes (or more, since burst weapons are a thing) per turn without even slowing down to do anything else than click.
On top of that - since 10 LK crit build is kinda slow to get going (you're a sniping build that's locked out of aiming for 24 levels, Fast Shot only really starts really packing a punch with your first combat shotgun or maybe flamer in comparison to eye-sniping), you can also Mutate! a second trait into Fast Shot 3 levels before or after you get Sniper.

Granted, it doesn't really matter that much in the long run, FO build optimization mostly just revolves around dumping CH, ST and EN (in this order) and figuring out how to maximize your Action Points and crits. And picking Gifted, ofc.

>>5175000
>Absolutely and perfectly doable.
Yeah, maybe if you save scum like a crazy bitch.

Fact of the matter is, Fast Shot is horrible without Sniper, and it's a trait, not a perk, so you're basically gimping the fuck out of your build just to feel awesome for the last 10% of the playthrough.

>>5175007
>Yeah, maybe if you save scum like a crazy bitch.
Wellllll, except the one documented Ironman (no saving, no reloading) playthrough of Fallout 2 that I know of does go LK 10 with Fast Shot.

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/lets-ironman-fallout-2.87870/

The report does go into detail about the build and the author has some interesting opinions (author advocates Kamikaze / optimizing Sequence as a possible means of having an easier time not dying to random encounters, when common consensus is that the Sequence stat doesn't really seem to do anything / only works on the first turn). The author also does acknowledge that his build is very late-game oriented and takes a while to turtle (hence it's not a bad idea to just Mutate it away if you'd prefer to aim), but you don't need to savescum at all.

>>5175007
>Fact of the matter is, Fast Shot is horrible without Sniper
Aaaaand no.
Fast Shot is a quintessential Big Gunner perk simply because you can't aim with any of the Big Guns. You subside on burst weapons in the Small Guns tree (10mm SMG, Combat Shotgun) until you get to New Reno and pick up your first Flamer / Minigun / Light Support Weapon, and from then on you're set. Big Guns builds are really effective in mowing down groups and Rocket Launcher is pretty good at crowd control against tightly clumped groups of enemies. Big Guns are also really fun for lining up a number of enemies together and seeing how many of them can you cut down in a volley.
Another interesting, somewhat niche, build you can go for is the "cowboy" who uses a Magnum .44 with Fast Shot for style points and the fact that Magnum has a lower AP cost per fire (4 instead of 5), so even an AG8 Fast Shooter character can fire it thrice in a round. Get Action Boy twice and Bonus Rate of Fire, and you can potentially hit 6 attacks per round to truly feel like Clint.
There's also the one build with potentially highest burst damage possible in a turn that utilizes H&K P90C and Bonus Ranged Damage x2 (not Living Anatomy; Living Anatomy doesn't contribute +5 damage to every single bullet in a burst, it's added to the total damage at the end of your attack, and is thus not that useful) for highest possible burst damage in a single turn "on paper". It's a neat little idea, though also a little bit of a one-trick pony (10mm JHP ammunition is ubiquitous, however).
Fallout 2 Restoration Patch also buffs Fast Shot by allowing you to take aimed punches again, since Fast Shot no longer (like in FO1) reduces the AP cost of attacking in melee, which means that you can invest into an useful backup attack.

>>5175007
>Yeah, maybe if you save scum like a crazy bitch.
t. a cunt that can't even make a functional character

Shit son, I literally yesterday started tribal playthrough, with tagged Unarmed, Melee and fucking Outdoorsman. Reached New Reno (after finishing all quest in all previous settlements in the main quest) without a single fucking save at all, basically making it an iron man without even trying to play iron man.
Not my fault you are shit at this game, but stop pretending it's hard or the inner workings of it are magic, rather then well-studied shit since fucking '99

>>5175007
Also, have you ever heard about Mutate perk? Where you use it to switch from Finesse (a great trait that gets obsolete with Sniper) to Fast Shot (a great trait when you have Sniper)? It's not even that hard, unless you are one of those cunts who absolutely have to pick Quick Pockets by level 6.
>inb4 Finesse is bad
Aside the fact you have no fucking clue about this game, you are claiming having fucking 17-20% chance for critical is bad. Congrats, you are officially retarded

>>5175043
>Shit son, I literally yesterday started tribal playthrough, with tagged Unarmed, Melee and fucking Outdoorsman
I mean, it *is* a pretty damn good build for early-game survival. But I guess that the "tribal" in question really clings on to his spear?
>>5175047
>inb4 Finesse is bad
Not him, but I don't particularly like having it myself. It works by imposing a flat DR to enemies which is great for you if your crits do bypass armor and pretty eh when they don't. Sometimes, even with crit out of the wazoo, I can aimed shot someone multiple times and he just refuses to die or even get knocked over. By the time I get Better Criticals, I hit 95% of my eyeshots anyway, and those have a high enough innate crit rate that I don't particularly notice it whether I'm Finessed or not. So it mostly makes me feel like I'm spending more turns trying to kill things without it than with it, which is mostly annoying until level 9 and still a bother afterwards. It's rather subjective, though, and I never ran any tests on this.

>>5175052
No, the "tribal" in the description means role-playing a character. Which involves gear choices, too, but that's secondary to other shit.
And the fact you are also clueless how fucking GREAT Sharpened Spear is (literally 4th best melee weapon in the game and you pretty much start with it) or how bare fists are by far one of the best weapons in the game aside late-game gear adds just more pebbles to the mount of your ignorance.
And if you have 20% crit chance, the fact your regular attacks deal less damage is absolutely meaningless. You aren't going to inflict those anyway. And for any sort of Unarmed build, you are going to knock people out cold on regular basis. So it doesn't really matter if you are dealing full or decreased damage either, because they are just a sack of meat you are beating up, with no issues whatsoever.

>>5175061
I would even argue it's 3rd best, but Wakizashi still has Weapon Penetrate perk and Sharpened Spear unfortunately doesn't. But spear has an extra range, which is handy.
But spot No. 2 is taken by an unique weapon and No. 1 is a late-game Super Sledge

>>5175052
You really are fucking awful at this game

>>5175061
>And the fact you are also clueless how fucking GREAT Sharpened Spear is (literally 4th best melee weapon in the game and you pretty much start with it) or how bare fists are by far one of the best weapons in the game aside late-game gear adds just more pebbles to the mount of your ignorance.
Hey, first of all, I'm not the person you started this discussion with, so you don't really have to go this mad. I don't like these threads devolving into shitflinging.
Second of all, I never said the Sharpened Spear was bad, I always greatly appreciate its bonus range. I was just curious about what your build actually entailed. That's all. Thought that, on top of the skills, you might be self-restricting to some specific stuff.
Same with the bare fists stuff. I posted walls of text on how this skill works in one of the last threads here recently, I know the drill.
My only issue with Finesse is that, as you said, you are going to knock people out cold on a regular basis anyway, since you have so many attacks per round, and hitting people in fragile body parts adding heaps to your critical hit chance.
Finesse still feels like it's bringing me down early in the game, though, mostly by making punching scorpions, rats, geckos etc. take longer early on. It takes a few level ups to get your weapon skills to a level where you hit the head/eyes at 95% hit rating, and until then, if I want to maximize damage on a 10 AG character, I'll likely be going aimed punch->punch->punch.
My entire point is that you still have a high natural crit rate from aiming in the head/eyes (according to an empirical NMA study, +60% from eye, +40% from head), so the additional +10% crit just doesn't feel as impactful. In my book, if every 2nd-or-so punch/shot I take is likely to be a crit, I don't really need to invest into it more. So I'd rather keep the damage. It makes my early game feel faster. Later I crit all the time anyway. Finesse just feels redundant.

>>5175076
Yeah, except the last time I was in a Fallout thread, I had to teach 3 anons - each of them frothing and seething - that a Strength 10 character and a Strength 2 character in Fallout are about as strong with Melee Weapons, damage-wise, because of how terrible the returns on the Bonus Melee Damage stat are (and other reasons). Someone then called me a retard because I "forgot" to mention the special Unarmed moves at ST 6, except they were in my post all along, the game in question was Fallout 1, and the post was about Melee Weapons, not Unarmed.

Someone else called the OP of that thread a retard because he took Heavy Handed with Melee Weapons, which, according to him, "DOESN'T FUCKING WORK YOU RETARD", even though a premade character for Fallout 2 is built with this combo, and even though the designers didn't make particularly good premade characters, they generally didn't fundamentally contradict the concept they were trying to pull.

He went on for like three more sentences of nonsense and still failed to notice pic related, which proved him wrong, and he would still keep screaming about that issue.

Personally? I just like engaging in conversation and theorycrafting. All I wanted to say is that I personally don't feel the impact of Finesse. I never said it's a bad, or the worst trait - I just don't think it's a particularly noticable difference in terms of amount of time I'm critting. I didn't call the guy talking a retard or anything - he got miffed because I asked him, casually, if he's gonna stick to his Spear because he's a Tribal.

I have the hours of gameplay put into this franchise, multiple characters behind my belt, an Ironman victory, and as of the last 3 /vr/ threads, multiple people like you calling me awful at this game when the only thing I said was equivalent to "I mildly disagree". And, sometimes, "I'm sorry, but you're factually wrong, and I have the screenshots to prove it".

tl;dr: Finesse is fine. It's not my style.

>>5174835
I mean if you don't like depressing cynical humor about how human beings are always trash and LOL DRUGS/PORN/SEX stuff or just shooting everything in the head to make your point you're probably not gonna enjoy the game.

Really the whole series is pretty much a downer designed for kids who got viciously bullied to have a cathartic fantasy about what if they could just retaliate without consequences

it's very childish, in real life the person who retaliates is usually the one who gets punished by law, unless you whine and complain extremely loudly and play the victim and basically go maximum jew on your tormentors, which won't really help anyone but yourself in the short term and probably helps nobody in the long term

so basically what I mean to say is there isn't anything positive in fallout that will actually make you happier or a better person or has any useful message with regards to society so you just shouldn't play any fallout games

>>5175139
>I have the hours of gameplay put into this franchise, multiple characters behind my belt, an Ironman victory, and as of the last 3 /vr/ threads, multiple people like you calling me awful at this game when the only thing I said was equivalent to "I mildly disagree". And, sometimes, "I'm sorry, but you're factually wrong, and I have the screenshots to prove it".
I'm gonna break the pattern and suggest that you might be terrible at life if you put so much time into such an unbalanced and unfun game

>>5174835
On paper Fallout 2 looks better than Fallout 1 because it has simply more quests, towns, content, etc. So if you just go on a game wiki and compare them side by side, 2 looks like the better game. I find the experience of 1 to be far richer though, and, therefore, the better game. Fallout 2 had way too much running endlessly over empty space from one side of a giant city to the other over and over again trying to find one NPC you need to talk to, also didn't like how right away the game puts you in a fairly decent sized city with a sign board showing 10 different things to do and with backstory on all those characters right up front. None of it means anything to the player yet, and it's just a series of running around doing, what feels like, are fetch quests trying to match the NPC up to the thing on the sign board you're supposed to do. By the time you reach a big city in Fallout 1 with multiple things to do, the game already worked you up to that point and several pieces of the puzzle already have a natural backstory that you've experienced throughout the game, and so it's all so much more enjoyable.

>>5174889
>zoomerposting on /vr/
fuck off

>>5175172
>also didn't like how right away the game puts you in a fairly decent sized city with a sign board showing 10 different things to do and with backstory on all those characters right up front. None of it means anything to the player yet, and it's just a series of running around doing, what feels like, are fetch quests trying to match the NPC up to the thing on the sign board you're supposed to do.
you know it feels like there a lot of games you could level this criticism towards

>I finished the first Fallout in about 13 hours
that's probably about how long it took me to get to the hub.

>>5175139
lmao get a life autist

or at least play some other game, jesus christ you're obsessed

>>5175172
>The game expects from you to use your brain and also just stumbling on things along the way, rather than hand-held you
>This is somehow bad
And you call others zoomers?

>>5175139
Jesus Christ, this autistic moron is up again...
Mate, seriously, get a life. The display you made in the thread was just sickening. It's like you really are autistic, not in a sense of snide remark, but actual mental illness.

>>5175563
*the thread you've mentioned

>>5175563
>The display you made in the thread was just sickening
>correcting people posting blatantly wrong information while screaming was sickening
It truly says a lot about this "community" when you're still this butthurt about how screaming "faggot" wasn't enough to prove you right

I love them both OP but when I was your age I thought Fallout 2 started out retarded also.
>never dug the whole "you're a tribal" thing except for sulik / grampy bone.
>find vic the trader is just a boring stupid thing to open a game with
>Klamath is not really fun compared to other areas
>my first playthrough I found redding before the den and repeatedly got my shit wrecked
>the den has a couple cool quest lines but it's no Junktown
Stick with it, OP. It gets better. Especially new reno, vault city, broken hills, ncr, and arguably san fran - all have way more entertaining shit going on.
But you're still a fag for cheating for power armor on your first run at the game

Just do Klamath - > Den -> Vault City and you should be hooked by this point IMO. It's a very slow start, yes. But if you're still not feeling it, well, then it's just not for you, I guess. The last time I played Fallout 2 was like 10 years ago, so no idea if it really holds up anymore.

>>5174861
>sequence break
>Fallout
Missing the entire point

>>5174835
Fallout 2 has better writing and multiple ends to sidequests. You have specific outcomes like getting citizenship for Vault City by immediately by passing the test because of an extremely focused character stats. It had a bit of extra content for a lot of basically dumb builds.

I understand the love for Fallout 1. It was more sand boxy. Even if he did had some different outcomes they weren't as detailed. Fallout is full of pop culture references, from a dead Star Trek away team to the holy hand granade.

>>5175585
It's not about correcting people, but the fucking way it was done. And you STILL don't understand why people chew you out for that, which just confirms it for me you are actually autistic

>>5174835
>after rushing to get the power armor from Navarro
You feel me with such an immense amount of disgust that I taste bile.

>>5174904
Fallout 1 and 2 have character creation built like Henry Ford's marketing strategy. "You can play any character you want, if it is AGL+LCK sniper with crit perks and high speech".

>>5175612
Usually people either get hooked by Den or Toxic Caves, depending on their choice of direction. And yeah, if by Vault City/Gecko the game won't click for you, it won't click ever.
Played it in October and it was still fun. But damn, I wish to still have that feeling when I was playing it for the first time, when everything was new and ready to be explored

>>5175785
>Sniper Small Arms LK 10 is the only build that works
Yeah, how about no?
People who keep posting this bullshit approve me with nothing more than contempt. It's not even the most efficient way of killing things, so it's not even about being complicient and in this comfort zone when things go easy. There are so many god-damn options and yet people behave like the Sniper is some sort of ultimate build, while it's barely there in terms of being half-decent combat build.
On the other hand, no amount of complains is going to cover how much you just have to tag Speech and then rank it up ASAP, because 90% of quests require retarded Speech check for anything resembling a solution.

>>5175821
anon he never said "Sniper Small Arms LK 10"
he said "AGL+LCK sniper with crit"
most characters will build around pretty much the same stats because they're the best in the game, and dump the stats that don't work due to shit coding or bad design assumptions
it doesn't help that LK unlocks a ton of great perks and is the only one without free boosts from drugs and similar, and AG is the only really relevant combat stat
of course you can fluff your build to be different but there generally is a very narrow selection of perks and systems that work

>>5175827
Are you that fucking autistic kid who was screething last time about merits of Heavy Handed?
If so - get the fuck out

>>5175828
>/vr/ is one person
no
these threads are fucking shit holy fuck

>>5174835
Fuck all ya'll niggers. Fallout Tactics is one of the best Fallout game of all time. OF ALL TIME.

>>5174835
>Hey guys, I cheated
>Why this game sucks so hard?

>>5175858
Yeah, it's just the same few autists bickering about which perk is the best in a 20 year old singleplayer game lmao.