/vr/ - Retro Games

Shmup fag is mixing it up, it seems. Tough love didn't work?

>>5135387
>Having to grind.
Try beating the boss by not grinding and instead using some of the other options under attack. You moron.

Some people get really into the story aspect of the games. They like how it's like watching an anime and get into the plot and characters.

Others enjoy the menus. They dig into numbers and stats and enjoy crafting builds and using different strategies to win.

Neither storyfags nor statsfags should be terribly difficult to understand, and I can recommend excellent games to both.

>>5135387
>Why do people like FPS games? I just can’t understand. It’s not even playing a game it’s just clicking on person after person, you don’t really do anything. And it’s the same generic story over and over again. Big bad wants to take over the world. So exciting. And where’s the replay value? I just don’t understand. Everytime I start one it’s just click click so u can beat some lame boss.
>FPS have more in common with visual novels
>Like snatcher than they do with a game like Mario. How do you enjoy this genre? Pleas explain it to me!!!
You can make this sort of generic whiny argument about any genre.

>>5135387
FF7 is objectively less complex than Ocarina of Time.

>>5135406
There has never been a good video game story.

>>5135387
Why do people like video games? I just can't understand. It's not like it's real life, just playing hours after hours, you don't really do anything.

>>5135525
Are you OP? Maybe your lack of understanding that other people have different opinions of what "good" is might have to do why you don't understand why people like JRPGs.

I just feel the need to post this

kinda dumb thread but yea
1. focus on plot and characters
2. freedom to create and chose your own path (not every rpg does that tho)
3. rewarding leveling up system that feels like your journey is actuallying paying off
4. emotional bullshit?

i don't know, they're just fun as fuck and sometimes hit you in the feels

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFk2LJPOY-s

Well there's.... pressing a.

Not always as easy as it sounds.

When are people going to learn that narratives have nothing to do with the game's genre? And that "playing" and "gameplay" mean different things?

Just because you're bouncing a basketball doesn't mean you're playing the game "Basketball"

GayRPGs fucking suck. Weeaboo non-game grinding garbage.

>>5135525
FF7 and 8 have good stories
>>5135387
It's all about the anime titties / waifus. The world building. Great music and visuals. Finding secrets. Seeing your characters grow from doing double digits damage to doing 9999 damage
The titties
The waifus
The stories
And you get more invested since you are the one controlling the characters

>>5135551
But what about the game?

>>5135551
>FF7 and 8 have good stories

>>5135551
>FF7 and 8 have good stories
Fucking lol. This is what sweaty dweebagoon faggot nerds actually fucking believe.

>>5135551
I'll give you 7 but FF8's story is Dawson's Creek tier shit

>>5135547
It's like explaining to the RPG Maker community that RPG is a genre which only exists as a collection of games with the same gameplay.
Which is why you can't invent new gameplay and call it an RPG for it's story.
It's not a story genre. It's a game genre.

>JRPGs don't have gamepla-

>JRPGs don't have good stori-

>>5135569
>>5135571
Correct.

>>5135387
>It’s not even playing a game it’s just sorting thru menu after menu
I'll take the bait
>all vidya are just manipulating bits and a series of on/off subpixels, so where's the game?!?

>>5135525
I like the story in Hearts of Iron, and that's a statsfag game.

>>5135569
>>5135571
Well.. yeah, Tactics Ogre has shit gameplay, and godawful writing.

>>5135585
>>5135569
Guaranteed both of these anons ragequit after losing at Dorter Slums and never actually played the game.

>>5135641
I beat FFT 1.3, fuck you

>>5135645
yeah sorry I assume you are >>5135569. I meant this goofy bait: >>5135637

>resource management, "do I want to use big spell that might overkill enemy and waste mana or skip mage turn and see if physical fighters can kill it before it drops another attack on my team making me waste MP healing"
"this boss uses poison should I deal with it and heal through it or try to fight it by recovering my status repeatadly"
>equipment choices
>this gives more defense but more damage taken from fire or this gives me wind absorb but less strength I wonder if the next boss has any sort of elemental affinities
>stories and characters are entertaining
>usually chockfull of great music/setpieces
>can collecathon in them
>many have different partymembers to change your group composition with

Grinding in rpg's is a crutch for people to retarded to try different tactics, especially in 99% of games made past the early 90's

>>5135398
>Try beating the boss by not grinding

Simply fighting normal enemies instead of running away is 'grinding', and yes, unless you know the most effective way of exploiting shit ahead of time, you aren't going to be beating most games without fighting a whole bunch of otherwise pointless battles just to to level up.

The idea that simply doing something other than attack (which admits that this is actually a viable possible strategy) is relatively advanced is telling, especially since using the fastest, high damage attack you have, healing when you'd otherwise risk death and buffing when you know you won't be killed fast enough that it's likely to be worthwhile is most of what you actually end up doing. The way things like healing work generally mean that you rarely ever need to actually think more than a couple of moves ahead. You seldom do anything much more than basic optimization, tactics involving making potential sacrifices for longer term positional advantage barely ever crop up. The fact that the player does level up means that the designer can't do things like tailor encounters assuming you have specific capability, and so most of the gameplay ends up consisting of small chunks. Because of this virtually every game requires that you deliberately restrict yourself for it not to be a cakewalk.

>>5135414
Any decent FPS game is going to be way more strategic than all but the very best RPGs.

>It’s not even playing a game it’s just clicking on person after person, you don’t really do anything

Flat out untrue because positioning, understanding levels and navigation is far more important than blind reaction. Deciding to tackle a map in a particular way has larger strategic implications in ways I wish more RPGs would bother with. Most RPGs are legit stupid shit that exist so that relatively dumb, undisciplined people can do things that let them pretend they are smart.

>>5135387
Try playing Final Fantasy 1 on GBA. Most streamlined fun rpg on the market. If you play it and still don't see any appeal, I dunno what to tell ya. If ya do like it, check out Chrono Trigger and Lufia 2.

FF7 is some boring shit tho that's for sure.

>>5135538
>2. freedom to create and chose your own path (not every rpg does that tho)

This is extremely rare in any significant sense. Even in western RPGs there aren't that many games where you have the freedom to say, go out of your way to ignore the 'official' quest and just betray everyone, unless it's some dialog option you get give near the end of the game that barely affects much.

>>5135698
>Flat out untrue because positioning
No shit, dumbass. We know FPS games are more than clicking on target after target. You're responding to blatantly obvious rhetoric with a hilariously autistic spaz-out about positioning and navigation. You really expect to be taken seriously about your reductionist generalizations about RPGs after such a pathetic display?

>>5135387
>>5135523
>>5135540
>>5135548
>>5135558
>>5135560
>>5135637
cringe and bluepilled

>>5135387
Because back in the day they were the only way to get any sort of in-depth story in a video game. Action games rarely ever had a story to speak of, and certainly not to the extent as in RPG games.
As a consequence, it's no surprise why JRPGs have declined in popularity in the 2000s due to other genres of games starting to have more in-depth stories and characterizations.

FWIW I've always preferred graphic adventures like Snatcher to JRPGs. If I'm playing a game for plot and characters and lore, might as well just do away with any pretext like battle systems and stat grinding, IMO.

>>5136327
>Because back in the day they were the only way to get any sort of in-depth story in a video game
No, the stories aren't good, and no modern video games in any genre have good stories either.

They have cute little girls, and that's all I need to like them.

>>5136350
You're retarded and this thread is a thinly veiled attack aimed at those you feel superior to

>>5136365
No, neither of those things are correct.

>>5136350

>>5135525
Xenogears would like to have a word with you.

>>5136393
Xenogears has an awful story for babies.

>>5135525
Mostly agree, Lunar Eternal Blue actually is surprisingly good, and I hate video game stories. I just care about the gameplay experience.

>>5135525
Digital Devil Saga has a phenomenal story.

>>5136432
>a story involving child molestation, slavery, prostitution, darker religious themes, and ultimately a sad twist on the purpose of life
>dark

>>5136463
I never said it was dark, retard, I said it was for babies.

>>5136456
I love megaten anon, I really do, but space Hindu bullshit was not a cohesive and thoughtout plot. The lead writer got seriously ill while Atlus was developing DDS2 to the point of her having to be hospitalized. Atlus basically had to fill in the blanks and we got what was sort of a, still very good, mess of a game. DDS1's tribal demon gang wars was interesting but it wasn't amazing either.

>>5136350
I never said "good". I said in-depth. Other games' stories were a paragraph in the manual

>>5135387
RPGs are story + strategy. It's alright if your brain can't handle that, there's plenty of games for you too.

>>5136509
>It's alright if your brain can't handle that
weak bait

>>5136487
Yeah....video game companies dont target babies for games that cant even read yet, dumbshit.

>>5136557
If you're too stupid to infer things from context you should probably refrain from joining conversations.

>>5136562
...and I'm apparently the dumb one lmao.

I know what you meant stupid while you fell hook, line, and sinker. Good job!

>>5135406
So you agree they are
More visual novels then anything else?

>>5135387
>It’s not even playing a game it’s just sorting thru menu after menu, you don’t really do anything
>while posting a pic of ff7, which has so many mini games and different things to do that are not just the battle menu and the materia/stats/equip menus.

yeah, ok buddy! I do understand what you mean though. if, I am playing ff legends on the gb then, yes it is only just statistics and shit, but I enjoy them! I think you have to be more into mathematics to want to play rpgs that involve calculations (however trivial they may be). they just scratch an itch i really like, and thats all I can say about it. I do enjoy mathematics though and practice arrhythmic rather frequently. You just have shit for brains.

>>5135551
>ff 8
>good story

Choose one

>>5136492
>this retard actually doesn't understand turtles all the way down

>>5135523
the complexity is different. I beat ocarina around the same time i beat ff7 i think about half a year apart. now i was 8 it was 1999, but i managed to beat each one just fine. a few years later as a teenager i think 13 or 14 i wanted to replay them again. i played ocarina first, and I was a little bored (not by the combat) but by the blandness of the characters. they are just geared towards a younger audience and as an edgy teenager I really didnt get to much from the whimsy in OoT. after
I beat OoT, i played ff7 and I understood more of the story and got way more into the materia system ( i really didnt understand it that well when i was 8 ). the story was fucking edgy as shit, and thats just what I wanted at the time. Now, I really cant stand playing OoT, because I've played it three times and used a walkthrough on the third to get every damn thing in the game. thats still not how i feel about ff7. I can have a casual game of ff7 every few years thats a little different each time

>>5137540
How? The story turns out the same and you are just clicking menus

>>5137569
different outcomes in storyline happen through mini games!

don corneos choice in bride is dependent on how well you answered, reacted, played mini games, etc... it could be cloud, tifa or arieXXX.

chocobo breeding can be done numerous different ways at various stages of the game! which also adds to the games lore. you see you can get an item from one of the weapons that can get you a golden chocobo. the racing game is a bit too easy but still fun in a way.

yuffie is a character and a story line you dont even have to do if you dont want to. same with vincent ( on top of his own story that is fun to find through exploration). yuffies wutai story is a pretty fun side quest that can be done at various times in the story, as with vincents storyline!

at the golden saucer (besides all the mini games) you have a chance through interactions with arieXXX and Tifa to have a date with them, you can also get yuffie. on top of that shit that is unique to the play through, afterwards you can go on a date with other party members and its a little light hearted humor that can be fun to do in a playthrough.

ok, sure the "main" story line is the same but there is so many different aspects that can be done individually (fort condor side quest, which is a fun simple rts that rakes a few good items) and you can choose to use different party members in the roster for different things. i recently started a game where im using arieXXX full time until she gets the sword. shes a fucking great healer with awesome mp. I know you think you can do these types of things in OoT, but you just cant Nemo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3virO3bvHUw

>>5137616
>getting all the materia to get neo bahamut

>getting venus gospel for cid

>getting knights of the round materia

>getting barrets final weapon

>going back to midgar

>getting omnislash early

>red submarine!

>morph and enemy skill
theres just to many things that you can easily miss ( if you dont play with a guide) its rich with replay value!

>>5137630
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wII-oSS0jxY

Don't respond seriously to this thread, it's a falseflag by /shmupg/.

>>5137770
Is there even a need to falseflag /shmupg/, they're perfectly capable of shitting themselves on their own.

>>5137904
They are pretty fucking horrendous, but the kind of idiotic reasoning they use in the OP is only from /shmupg/. For a start they think FF 7 is a "modern" jrpg

>>5137540
>the complexity is different.
No, it's less. FF7 doesn't have any gameplay.

>>5137965
Fuck off back to /shmupg/ faggot

>>5137968
What do shmups have to do with anything?

>>5137989
This thread is made by /shmupg/, who think every game besides le epic spaceship dot dodges is shit and they don't understand anything

>>5137991
>who think every game besides le epic spaceship dot dodges is shit
Ok, so since this doesn't apply to me, you don't need to mention them in this conversation.

>>5136356
these word speak to my soul.

>>5135387
That's what bad rpg games are like, Japanese ones in particular since Japanese people cannot make good games. Play something like Ultima Underworld, Jagged Alliance 2, Daggerfall, Might and Magic VI, VII or IX etc. to see what a good RPG is like.

>>5137930
I mean, isn't it one, almost-Barneyfag-tier autilus?

>>5137526
>>5137616
>muh minigames
Literally all of which are flash game tier, but I guess that is all it takes to impress the brain damaged weeaboo.

>>5135387
>Why do people like rpg games?
>>5137523
>So you agree they are more visual novels then anything else?
When you read a novel you are taking a passive role, in an rpg you take an active role. You lead the party down one path or another, you don't just read about the hero slaying the dragon, you are the hero slaying the dragon.

>And it’s the same generic story over and over again...Big bad wants to take over the world. So exciting.
Pacific Rim, Conan, Lord of the Rings and Willow are also about "slaying the big bad monster who wants to take over the world", but they are very different stories, with different characters, plots and themes.

> I just can’t understand. It’s not even playing a game it’s just sorting thru menu after menu
This is like saying reading books is just about turning pages. The menus have significance in the choices you make, how you respond to dialogue or how you customize your character.

>And where’s the replay value?
Depends on the RPG and what you want out of it. I replayed Baldur's Gate 2 so many times just to experiment with different choices, interactions, character builds and trying to find glitches and gimmicks in it.


>Like snatcher than they do with a game like Mario. How do you enjoy this genre? Pleas explain it to me!!!
How do you enjoy any other genre? RPGs are my main genre, every other genre is secondary, junk food, basically a way to cool off between RPG sessions. When I play games I want to go on a grand adventure, I want to develop a character and be part of a story, get gradually stronger and stronger. RPGs have progression, they have character development and I enjoy the strategy involved in battles.

Jumping on platforms (mario) and shooting spaceships (gradius) is or doing fighting game combos (Street Fighter) is fun for like 30mins, then my brain turns off because there's no depth or story or motivation to these games, every NON-RPG genre is paper thin and lacks substance.

>>5138046
Don't take this thread seriously based /m/an, it's a thread made by retards at /shmupg/

>>5137991
Some shmups are cool, just as some RPGs.
The problem /shmupg/ has is that they (at least the most vocal, autistic posters there, the ones that come and shitpost here) don't actually play games, they just copymonkey shit from actual (japanese) players and pretend they're good, but in reality all they do is complain about other people having money and buying things, and gossipping about literally whos from some forum.
>>5137989
As far as I could discern, there seemed to be some Autism Wars some time back, and some colossal faggots started hating each other over game genres. So they started this kind of tribalism war of "you can only like either SHMUPS or RPGS, not both!", I don't know who started it, maybe the shmup fags really were trolled by some rpgfag, or maybe viceversa, or maybe both ways. But yeah, for some reason shmup vs rpg is a thing and is a crossboard faggotry of /vg/ vs /vr/.

>>5138050
Yeah exactly, the actual games are great fun but the thread is a shit show. the crossboard faggotry is only done by one or two people, who both claim they hate /vr/ yet post here constantly and link to /vr/ in /shmupg/

>>5138049
I actually wanted to post just for myself, to get my thoughts out and see what I think lol. I remember asking why people like the Musou warrior genre games, and no one could give a clear answer they just got really angry.

>>5138050
>So they started this kind of tribalism war of "you can only like either SHMUPS or RPGS, not both!", I don't know who started it, maybe the shmup fags really were trolled by some rpgfag, or maybe viceversa, or maybe both ways. But yeah, for some reason shmup vs rpg is a thing and is a crossboard faggotry of /vg/ vs /vr/.

Some of the bosses in Ys games feel like I'm playing a shmup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oqK3DXSnSQ

>>5138053
Ys is such a fucking awesome series. /shmupg/ also think that JRPGs literally consist of FF and anything Square and Enix made, which is obviously wrong as JRPGs encompass a ton

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhFSwGb6a9M

>>5135387
>WHY DO PEOPLE LIKE THINGS?!?!?!

Fuck off and kill yourself you shithead Zoomer. I'm serous. Fuck off and don't come back.

>>5138093
It's /shmupg/, don't get so mad at the mentally ill. One of the posters there legit thinks he's going to be killed by 4chan assassins

>>5136463
>thinking a story that touches on certain themes means its well written
Are you retarded?

There is literally no good story

>>5135387
>Why do people like rpg games?
>role playing game games

>>5138054
>/shmupg/ also think that JRPGs literally consist of FF
not even that, really. Usually it's some generalized simplification of FF that only exists in their own delusions.

>>5138151
>Fido probably began life sometime in the autumn of 1941 as an independent street dog in Luco di Mugello, a small town in the municipality of Borgo San Lorenzo, in the Tuscan Province of Florence, Italy. One night in November 1941, a brick kiln worker in Borgo San Lorenzo named Carlo Soriani, on his way home from the bus stop, found the dog lying injured in a roadside ditch. Not knowing whom the dog belonged to, Soriani took him home and nursed him back to health. Soriani and his wife decided to adopt the dog, naming him Fido ("faithful", from Latin fidus).

>After Fido recovered, he followed Soriani to the bus stop in the central square of Luco di Mugello and watched him board the bus for his job. When the bus returned in the evening, Fido found and greeted Soriani with obvious great joy and followed him home again. This pattern repeated every workday for two years: Fido would stay in the square, avoiding all others, waiting and sniffing the air until excitedly greeting Soriani and enthusiastically following him home.

>This was during the Second World War, and on December 30, 1943, Borgo San Lorenzo was subjected to a violent allied bombardment: many factories were hit, and many workers, including Soriani, perished. That evening, Fido showed up as usual at the bus stop, but did not see his beloved master disembark. Fido later returned home, but for fourteen years thereafter (more than 5,000 times) until the day of his death, he went daily to the stop, watching and sniffing the air, waiting in vain for Soriani to get off the bus.

>Fido died still waiting for his master on June 9, 1958. He was buried outside the cemetery of Luco di Mugello beside his master, Carlo Soriani.

>>5138162
Shit. Like all stories are

>>5138167
Ok brainlet

>>5138172
It's more likely he has some kind of mental disorder or hormonal imbalance.

>>5138151
>>5138167
>there are no good stories
you depressed? or just have autism/aspergers?

>>5138209
Just shitposting, the thread is made by /shmupg/ faggots. See >>5138201

>>5138213
>thread is made by /shmupg/ faggots
wtf I went to /shmupg/ on vg and there's quite a lot of posts shitting on jrpgs lol
what is their problem? they're hardly talking about shmups in that general...

>>5138230
>What is their problem
Fucked if I know, I think the core group have legit mental illness. One of them thinks that 4chan assassins are coming to kill him because he doesn't like JRPGs

FF7 is D&D for normies. And you use your head and not even geting into the materia combinations, not like that garbage gameplay that FF13 has or FF15 who the hell playtested that a 10 year old who has never played FF.

>>5135387
they have something called an "imagination"

>>5138230
proof?

>>5136306
The thing about FPS games is, nobody complains that the reload takes too long or that rocket travels too long wishing to have a turbo button.

With turn-based JRPG's 80% of the time you're just staring, watching the menu choice you made unfolding, unable to do anything else. Whereas in JRPG's decisions matter, in FPS games, RTS games, shmups, fighting games and literally HALF the FUCKING GENRES out there, both mechanical skills and decision making matter.

RPG's require decisions. FPS/RTS/Fighting games/platformers require decisions and eye-hand coordination. You can tell which one is harder WHEN ALL ELSE IS EQUAL.

>>5138769
The NES FFs are more like D&D than FF7

>>5137630
>replay value by obscuring elements
Replay value comes from enjoying the game, not because the dev decided that you have to search the 5th rock on the 3rd mountain by the river that wasn't even there by CD 6 or whatever the fuck.

>>5138046
>When you read a novel you are taking a passive role, in an rpg you take an active role.
Clearly you never played Danganronpa, Phoenix Wright or Zero Escape but they're not retro so that's probably why.

>>5138787
Nothing is ever equal you retard.

Yes all videogames can be defined as puzzles or skill and timing based input and usually some combination of the two, but there are like a billion people with bad eyesight or arthritis or exhausting day jobs or any number of conditions that prefer something which doesn't require one or the other thing when they're finding time for recreation.

Maybe for mister pro-gamer some things aren't stimulating enough but that's just because of your own imbalance and acting as though those standards are objective measure of quality only shows how narrow minded and stupid you are.

>>5138793
the fact that you can't enjoy anything after you got bullied by someone whose literal goal was to make you stop enjoying things isn't a fault of the game

>>5138810
>you need to be physically incapacitated in some way to enjoy JRPGs
Sounds about right.

>>5138814
lmfao

>>5138787
>eye-hand coordination
So nothing? Who cares, fuck off out of our hobby you dumb jock

>>5135387
You foolz, it's not about the stories it's about the waifus.

>>5138813
The what now? I don't enjoy X therefore I don't enjoy ANYTHING?

>>5138825
>our hobby
Holding X for 50 hours isn't a hobby.

>>5138845
But waifus aren't exclusive to RPG's so what makes RPG waifus better than the rest?

>>5135387
>Action RPGs, Tactical RPGs, Hack n' Slash with RPG elements

Pinnacle of gaming that everyone can enjoy

>Old, traditional Dragon Quest/Final Fantasy menu-centered games

Only autistic 40 years old virgins play this shit.


middle ground would be story-ridden, character-rich RPGs but not a lot of them managed to get it

>>5138787
>With turn-based JRPG's 80% of the time you're just staring
Nobody other than you gives a shit what "80% of JRPGs" are like. I'm sure I've played less than 10% of them.
>some games require mechanical skill others don't
There is no FPS game that can match the tactical depth of a game like Final Fantasy Tactics for a single player, because you can only ever control one actor at a time. At best, you can have AI companions or online multiplayer. Multiplayer coordination is fun but it's not the same as managing an entire team all by yourself.

>>5135387
>role playing game games
lol retard

>>5135387
>I don't understand something other people enjoy

Some things aren't for you and that's fine. I don't understand dudes who like feet. They're just... feet, to me. But that's fine. I don't need to understand it because it isn't for me. Move past these things.

>>5135558
>videogames have good stories

>>5135568
So FPS then?

>>5139401
how do nouns work?

>>5138028

>>5135387
FF7 is when JRPGs went full weebshit and casual

>>5139424
REFUTE IT >>5136767
>>5136735

>>5139470
The west can't make a good fighting game

>>5139412
Yes? FPS, RTS, Adventure, Puzzle, Action, they're all genres. It's a collection, a group of games, with a shared trait: gameplay. If it doesn't have gameplay it's not a game (talking about Visual Novels). And if the gameplay isn't share with the rest of the group then it's can't be categorized in the same genre.

If people like rpgs for the stories, then they're not actually talking about the video game genre at all; more like a the literary genre. Probably Fantasy.

>>5139473
fighting games are shit

>>5139475
Well you have shit taste then

>>5139478
t.japantard

>>5139479
Fuck off you ESL shitposter

>>5139481
t.eastcuck

>>5139403
I am just trying to understand why people enjoy them because they are particularly popular on here, and everytime I try to finish one, I get bored and quit halfway.
Also I am not any shmup fag or anything I don’t know what people are talking about on that one.
Many of the responses to my op were basically “fuck you we like it because”
But there have been some good posts.
I still stand in my belief that rpg games are one step away from visual novels.

Why is this /shmupg/ falseflag thread still up

if rpg games are so bad why rpgcodex like them.

>>5139512
mods are lazy

japanese games are garbage

>>5135387
Dont listen to the people who say that this game is legendary 10/10. They are just ps1 shit rat fanboys that wanked over tifa or lara croft. Gameplay wise FF7 is boring as hell, cgi aged like shit and menu fights were never fun. It felt like an interactive dvd.

>>5135551
The absolute state of ps1 nibbas.

Thank god n64 never went full retard with fanservice during that era. Sony needed to masturbate little japanese kids minds to being relevant. Sad!

>>5136393
>Crucified pikachu is "deep".
>Cliche of killing le god is "deep"


LOL!

There is nothing good ever made

imagine being so untalented that you think everything is garbage. the absolute state of contrarians.

Imagine not sensing hyperbolic jokes on 4chan of all places. /shmupg/ are fucking mentally ill

imagine, just imagine

>>5139559
Go to bed, Lennon

>>5139564
i'm not dead

Whats up with these kind of threads? I see them pop up from time to time

>>5139415
not the way you think lmfao retard

>>5139585
Pic related

>>5139585
It's /shmupg/ having a cry again, I wouldn't worry

>>5139591
I see
Yeah that kind of people ruined 4chins

>>5139595
why does a shooter fan hate jrpg? Most good shooters are japanese
Why not sport games or adventure games

how do we know that he is a shmupfag?

>>5139603
They're legit mentally ill. One of them actually thinks people from 4chan are going to kill him for not liking JRPGs. They're the kind of people who think JRPGs are a jewish conspiracy designed to make men into braindead consumers or some shit

>>5139604
proof?

>>5139604
I would kill people for liking gacha shit for supporting cancerous shit
And jap are really jewish when you think about it, nowadays

>>5139612
Go to /shmupg/

>>5138053
The games are the only JRPG's I still play, but they are good in spite of being arpg's not because of it, not really a good example if you want to defend the shitty genre. Especially since you can just play them as pure action game on time attack and have more fun than the story mode which wastes your time with unskippable cutscenes and busywork. Oh and the level design is stupid because it's an RPG, if it was a pure action game it would block off rooms until you've cleared enemies to ensure that you actually fight them like DMC, but because it's an RPG all encounters are skippable so nothing stops you from running past everything to the last save point and then killing nearby enemies to catch up to the minimum level

https://youtu.be/Fv7fCr6QFis
>In a JRPG you don't need good reflexes. Anyone will eventually complete the game

Anyways, not saying that I hate JRPG's since I still play them but one genre is an asynchronous test of aptitude (high scores are an intrinsic part of shmups) but for JRPG's to be like that you have to go as far as making up your own rules and have a group of people who agree (speedruns, low level challenge etc).

JRPG's are fun but they're something you would play to chill the fuck out, not to tense up and be fully focused caring how you would do.

Both genres are good with doing their own thing but it's Crystal clear which genre won and why. And it's the JRPG because people can't handle feeling incompetent and work on their skill.

>>5139960
Shmups and JRPGs are both good, everyone not mentally ill knows that. /shmupg/ are retarded though, in fact one of them thinks VLC is good to show you the level of idiocy we're dealing with

>>5139970
>anyone who has clear preferences is mentally ill

>>5139974
VLC is literally the worst video program /shmupg/

>>5139975
This is true, as true as JRPG's being the worst video game genre

>>5139975
>literally the worst
you are showing a higher level of idiocy

>>5139976
This, everything is terrible

>>5136432
"HARK! I WILL FOCUS ON THE ONE PART OF THE GAME THAT EVEN THE BIGGEST XENOGEARS FANS THINKS IS RETARDED!"

You sure showed me. Now I think Xenogears story sucks. Thanks man!

>>5138147
No, those are parts of what make the story interesting and engaging. Along with characters like Fei, Grahf, Citan, Krelian, etc. But yeah, keep projecting.

>>5140000
>Actually trying to reason with /shmupg/.
Even based quads can't save you, you're just going to run into a wall

>>5140000
I love RPGs but always thought Xenogears was cheesy and bad. It doesn't hold up to games like Valkyrie Profile, Suikoden II, etc.

Nice quads tho

>>5139970
>Shmups and JRPGs are both good
I don't really like either, but at least shmups have gameplay.

>>5140075
This tbqh, shmups are literally the only genre in human existence to be interactive

>>5140084
>shmups are literally the only genre in human existence to be interactive
That's not at all what the post you responded to said.

>>5140094
Inspired by /shmupg/ I decided that reality doesn't matter, so the post I replied to in fact does say that

>>5137526
>but I enjoy them

That's not what he's arguing.
I reached the thief cave to kill the bandit who threatened the girl from the village on the east, okay? I got murdered not because my execution was lacking but because I didn't spend 10 minutes outside of the town doing the same thing over and over until I have enough money to upgrade my gear/stats.

A player who plays JRPG's for a decade will still have to go through the motions of leveling and gearing. A player who plays shmups/fighting games for a decade will spent significantly less time in the "warm-up stage" and his skill is transferable without requiring a memory card.

A PvP RPG game will heavily favor stats, and stats aren't always gained by optimal performance. I too enjoy optimizing to melt shit in a turn or 2 but it's not REQUIRED.

For a genre that relies on calculations is not as demanding on them as a genre that relies on reflexes and upping the difficulty of a JRPG means spending more time grinding, not contemplating your stratagems.

>>5140142
>resorting to grind in JRPG
You either only played Dragon Quest 1-2, never played a JRPG, or are legitimately retarded.

>>5140156
You'd almost think someone who thinks a 30 year old game is a modern JRPG is fucked in the head or something

>>5140003
>It doesn't hold up to games like Valkyrie Profile
VP is the most overrated game ever. Its combat is as complex as Berseria's "mash everything" system yet nobody criticizes it as if VP is a sacred goat/cow.

>>5140156
I'm just saying, grinding is the first tip people give to someone who gets stuck in a boss fight.

>>5140180
Unironically better than Xenogears combat

>>5140156
>"Guys I'm stuck in X area of this JRPG what do I do?"
>grind anon

>"Guys I'm stuck in X stage in this shmup what do I do?"
>memorize the patterns/watch for the bullets/learn how to avoid homing bullets etc.

>>5140186
Xenogears isn't praised for its combat dum dum

>>5140186
That's setting the bar low.

>>5140190
VP's story is better too. Immediately the theme of taking the souls of dead warriors with you to fight the battle of Ragnarok is presented to you and it's fucking amazing. Each new party member is introduced to you with THE STORY OF HIS DEATH. Xenogears can't compare.

>>5140190
Xenogears is such a weird game. It has so many huge flaws and yet it often manages to be great in ways no other games can match.

>>5139960
>for JRPG's to be like that you have to go as far as making up your own rules and have a group of people who agree (speedruns, low level challenge etc).
To be fair, that's true of most games that aren't videogames. I have a basketball hoop in my driveway. The mechanics are all there. I can go chill out and shoot for practice whenever I feel like it. But to actually play I need more rules and some people who agree to them.

The Final Fantasy IV Free Enterprise randomizer is pure, distilled JRPG mechanics. Strategy, tactics, and execution all make a difference, and there's very little of obscure, arcane crap usually involved in heavily optimized speedruns like RNG manipulation and step routes. It's just ATB combat and routing through the world. But in the race context, there's pressure to avoid wasting any unnecessary time on grinding. There are various opportunities to take risks that can pay off or not.

There are 200 some-odd players registered on speedrunslive you can race against. http://www.speedrunslive.com/races/game/#!/ff4hacks/1
You can also download seeds from those races and run yourself to see how you stack up. They also post a seed of the week to the discord that you can run without joining speedruns live.

>>5139960
>for JRPG's to be like that you have to go as far as making up your own rules and have a group of people who agree (speedruns, low level challenge etc).
I don't like JRPGs, but I fail to see how this is a bad thing. Speedrunning is more interesting than 99% of dev-intended high level play anyway.

>>5140254
>I have a basketball hoop in my driveway
Shooting a ball through a hoop isn't playing basketball, it's simply using those objects to either play a different game or just fuck around when you're bored. This is nonsense anon. The randomizer is exactly that, a completely new game using the mechanics and systems of an old one

>>5140265
Basketball isn't governed by a set of intrinsic rules, though. All video games are.

>>5140265
>>5140269
Also, basketball has a huge number of different rule sets, many of which are subjective. If I set up a game of basketball with some friends at the park, chances are we won't be strictly adhering to the official NBA rulebook, but that doesn't mean we aren't playing basketball.

>>5140269
It's not "governed" by them, basketball IS the rules, playing the game means accepting its rules and goals then playing within that framework. It's not the objects you play with or any particular set of actions you do during basketball. Games are like this too, you have the game and you have an infinite number of potential self imposed games you can play with a game's built in systems while ignoring the actual game.

>>5140273
It means you're playing a variation of the basketball ruleset, games are also very flexible and allow you to adjust their rules to make them more fun/fitting for yourself (difficulty options are the most basic aspect of this) it's just that their options are limited and hard coded in

>>5140269
Uhh it is if you're playing on a team. Sure you can play half court pickup whatever but that isn't really basketball

>>5140274
>It means you're playing a variation of the basketball ruleset
Right, like how speedrunners play a variation of X game's ruleset.
>basketball IS the rules
But basketball doesn't have a strictly governed ruleset. People who organize basketball games/leagues just make up the rules for it and have participants agree to those rules.
>>5140276
>games are also very flexible and allow you to adjust their rules to make them more fun/fitting for yourself
Right, which is specifically what speedrunners and challenge players do.

>>5140263
It's bad because the games aren't designed around skill based play so they're RNG/cutscene ridden, overly long tedious shit. And if games actively punish speedruns like this it just feels arbitrary and unfun.

What the fuck am I reading. This is just trolls trolling the mentally ill

>>5140283
>Uhh it is if you're playing on a team.
Well yeah, the entity organizing the game and/or league gets to decide the rules, obviously, and participants have to agree to them. Just like with speedrunning.
>>5140285
So play a speedgame that doesn't have those things. Seems simple enough.

>>5140290
>So play a speedgame that doesn't have those things. Seems simple enough.
I do, don't have problems with speedrunning as a whole just JRPG's being shit for any kind of skilled play with some very rare exceptions. You play them casually they're crap, you speedrun them and they're still crap

>>5140284
Depends on the game I'd say and how many hoops you've gotta jump through to make speedrunning work well, sometimes it's just a variation but the randomizer you posted is very much a new game as far as I'm concerned

>>5140301
Sounds like the genre just isn't for you my guy

>>5135387
You made the claim that it's the "same generic story".

Summarize the stories of three or more JRPGs without using trope-like terms.

>>5140323
This thread is a falseflag by /shmupg/, they think FF 7 is a modern JRPG title. Don't take this thread seriously

>>5140323
not him, but

>ragtag group of nobodies get caught up in local political drama
>political drama evolves into something much bigger, usually involving a 3rd party manipulating politicians for personal gain
>ragtag group of nobodies works together to save the world/universe from 3rd party

every final fantasy game in a nutshell

Considering /shmupg/ think the literal Queen of the nation is a "nobody", it shows you how braindead they are about games

>>5140265
>The randomizer is exactly that, a completely new game using the mechanics and systems of an old one
It's not really a completely new game. The developers for that one demonstrate a great deal of restraint and discipline with regards to preserving vanilla behavior whenever possible.

Yes, the story is removed. Yes, the walk speed is enhanced, random counters can be toggled off (dated traits of games from that era), and the original linear progression is no longer enforced to the same degree. But it's the same game, with the same characters, same equipment, same abilities, same leveling system, and same bosses.

>>5140285
>the games aren't designed around skill based play
Now you're just being a dumbass. At least some of them ARE designed around skill-based play, but include a naturally integrated difficulty-release valve for players less interested in developing the necessary skills to play well. It's like some people are literally just too stupid to understand this, though.

They also include stories and cutscenes and stuff because, unfortunate as it may be, people really like those things. Plenty of non-RPGs have had lengthy cutscenes since 5th gen. Players also like the roleplay elements of being in an alternate reality to explore. How dangerous this alternate reality is depends heavily on the game. There are hundreds of JRPGs, many traits are shared but many are not.

>>5140359
>Plenty of non-RPGs have had lengthy cutscenes since 5th gen.
Most of the time they're skippable, to be fair. Metal Gear Solid 4 has more hours of cutscenes than even Final Fantasy 10, but the difference is that in FF10 you have no choice but to watch them.

>>5140359
>At least some of them ARE designed around skill-based play
No they aren't atleast not the vast majority of them, they ALLOW skilled play but everything allows skill based play if you add the right systems to it. There are practically none of them that reward you for doing low level runs, or ones that reward you for doing things fast and efficiently, they discourage experimentation by heavily gating options and adding scarce save points, many have absolutely bullshit instances of RNG (SMT series comes to mind with instakills) they disincentivize challenge runs of any kind really, but ESPECIALLY speedruns and permadeath runs. There are a lot of games with hours of cutscenes but the skill based ones like say Bayonetta make everything easily skippable, JRPG's do not with again some very rare exceptions.

>>5138793
its not obscuring elements you fucking red herring ass bastard. I fucking didnt post anything that has
>you have to search the 5th rock on the 3rd mountain by the river that wasn't even there by CD 6 or whatever the fuck.

all the things i posted are little extras that take a little bit of extra exploration to find, and some of them are cool plot twists, like the red submarine! its not "kneel at the end of the left screen holding the golden dildo for five seconds, then a twat tornado will devour you!" bullshit.

you suck at arguing!

>>5138037
it was 1997 you dumb fuck, flash games were not even a thing! besides your obvious retardation. some of the mini games are fun, they are not meant to be wario tier mini games, just something to do in between shit! there more stuff do to than just mini games that add to the storyline that you definitely cant do in fucking oot.

fucking brain dead faggot!

>>5140605
>oot doesn't have minigames

>>5139368
I think he meant 80% of the time spent playing any given RPG

>>5140549
>the vast majority of them
In other words, you are too fat and lazy to even cherry-pick games that support your point so you just generalize.
>many have absolutely bullshit instances of RNG
I guess you have never heard of Poker.

>>5135558
>ecoterrorists find themselves mixed up with a parasitic alien who convinced a man to destroy the world with a meteor so it could absorb the souls of all life on the planet
>child soldiers are pitted against a witch from the future who wishes to abolish the dimension of time
You'd have to be REAL cynical, anon, to hate on these stories.

>>5140813
Obviously you have to generalize when speaking about genres, dumbass. Should I make a list of JRPGs that have these flaws? Can go through thr JRPG library of any console and this will apply to most if not all of them, especially turn based ones. And the comparison to poker is stupid because there is counterplay and mindgames there as you are playing with humans, with something like speedruns getting a run flushed down the toilet because you got a bad roll is always bullshit any way you slice it

>>5140289
That has always been 4chins thing

>>5140872
>Obviously you have to generalize when speaking about genres, dumbass.
Just as obviously, when a discussion starts getting specific and your bland assertions are challenged, you should start providing supporting examples. There are many RPGs across many years and many different franchises. Each category has its own strengths and weaknesses. Some are more plot-and-story heavy than others. Each game has different animations, text-scroll, walk speed, and overall pacing. Early NES-era games tend to be the most grindy. PSX-era Final Fantasies are notorious for ridiculously long battle animations, and also spend 10x more time in cutscenes and dialog than early JRPGs. Your generalizations get BTFO without even comparing specific games, just slightly less broad generalizations. That's how fucking dumb your position is.
>the comparison to poker is stupid
The point was meant to be very simple since you clearly have a very simple mind. RNG typically presents a risk decision where you can make a riskier but potentially faster decision or a safer but less risky decision. In fact I remember watching an FFT speedrunner realize that he could use Haste2 instead of Haste1, which has a slower animation but much higher success rate, meaning that for the cost of a few seconds he could eliminate the risk of a run-ending roll.
>speedruns getting a run flushed down the toilet because you got a bad roll is always bullshit any way you slice it
Actual "Speedruns" ie going for a world record against the leading autists, are just one way to play. Yes, those are ridiculously optimized to the point that a WR might depend on a single (or handful) of good or bad rolls that you have no choice but to take. But you can also just try to play the game as fast as possible and beat your own best time (or race against a friend). It's not like the vast majority of people who play shmups or FPS games come anywhere near setting any kind of world record, either.

>>5141298
Where did you BTFO my statements? You didn't even provide an example of a game to which my complaints DON'T apply which would honestly be much easier than listing games it does apply to (TWEWY comes to mind). Since we're talking about Final Fantasy, pick any game in the series and it will suffer from damn near every single flaw I listed. They don't reward low level runs, they reward speedruns outside of MAYBE Excalibur II in FF9, save spots are relatively sparse, they regularly gate your combat options with shifting party members AND most of all they have a ton of story sequences which offer 0 engagement thus killing the enjoyment of a speedrun for who has even a tiny amount of respect for their own free time.
>RNG typically presents a risk decision
Notice how I said bullshit instances of RNG while bringing up a specific example of SMT instadeaths, not all RNG is created equal, it's a question of how much your success depends on it. You are a moron.
>But you can also just try to play the game as fast as possible and beat your own best time
Doesn't make a difference unless you play at an incredibly low level and stop before you optimize your run, anyone with half a brain will immediately notice when their pb pace has been fucked over by RNG, hell even in arcade games it's an annoyance and the RNG there is very sparse in comparison.

You wrote a lot but said fuck all, be more concise next time you dumb faggot.

>>5140654
>reading comprehension

Lol

>>5136393
>>5136432

Xenogears a shit.

>>5140597
>like the red submarine! its not "kneel at the end of the left screen holding the golden dildo for five seconds, then a twat tornado will devour you!" bullshit.

The chocobo quest is exactly this though. If it wren't for the sage, it would be retarded.

>>5140263
>I don't like JRPGs, but I fail to see how this is a bad thing.

It's a bad thing because the genre could easily have challenge modes that cap the effect of levels and limit item usage etc. and have encounteres designed with this in mind and hence have actually meaningful strategy, but no one bothers doing shit like this and no one seems to care. This is why the genre deserves criticism, because 98% of the games just flat out don't care, they just copy what everyone else does and so don't even deal with the most basic, easily fixable flaws practically everything has.

>/shmupg/ triggered thread still hasn't been deleted

>>5142006
Ancient Cave mode in Lufia 2

>>5140323
>amnesiac protagonist
>wake up to find a world-ending threat
>you're the chosen one
>hop from town to town doing fetch quests and killing a boss
>gather the party as you hop from town to town
>story becomes convoluted and motivations as to why characters join you are vague or steroetypical
>hop to more towns, kill more bosses, do more fetch quests
>meet the final boss
>oops you're underleveled
>Grind for 30mins
>Win
you saved the world again!

Imagine being so fragile that you shitpost in a whole other board instead of playing the games you love so much lmfao. Shmupfags are the worst

>>5142010
http://shrines.rpgclassics.com/snes/lufia2/ancientcave.shtml
>The Ancient Cave is a side quest in Lufia 2. It is a dungeon comprised of 99 "randomly" generated levels.

Please. It is not a 'mode' and seems to be no different in principal from something like the Golden Saucer arena in FFVII.

>>5142009
There's nothing wrong with this thread besides people who you don't like posting in it

>>5142070
*Besides people who made it to shitpost and falseflag

>>5142074
You're the only one shitposting here, rest of the thread is discussion/arguing like usual

>>5142080
You just haven't been able to spot their style and trademark idiocy

>/shmupg/ falseflag thread is still up
Faggot jannies, aren't even doing it for free