/vr/ - Retro Games

Most of its games are outright trash

>>5133802
Lotus would like a word with you. It's outright better than Outrun.

So many of its best games were ported to more popular systems that there's not many titles that feel like true "Amiga games".

So many games that look and sound so cool, but the design and programming are horrible.

>>5133808
>using an exception as the rule

>>5133794
Most games were tech demos that didn't focus on developing any memorable qualities.

>>5133808
the genesis port of this was my childhooooood

>>5133824
for most of the devs coming off hardware with 64 kb of ram and sound circuits only able to make basic beeps and boops and suddenly in 1985 having a machine with actual graphics, sound, and memory/storage to hold actual games was quite a shock. they didn't know how to utilize all extra resources so they just made the same games they did in C64 and speccy and gave it better graphics and music to fill the floppy

>>5133941
Wait, why was this only a problem in Europe? American devs seemed to be able to figure out how to use the next- gen 16-bit machines better.

The amiga was a love or hate platform. Dedicated developers are often quoted saying programming on the amiga was extremely easy and flexible, but they weren't many, and were mostly small Europe-based studios with an hobbyist edge to it (think Sensible Software, Rainbow Arts, Bitmap Bros and Thalion). Conversely most PC-based devs hated porting to the amiga, the most common complaint being the lack of support from Commodore. This resulted in most Amiga to PC/Console ports being of very good quality whereas PC to Amiga ports were often ouright bad. Because the Amiga itself never found a true gaming audience in the states, with the rising influence of gaming consoles in the mid-to-late 80s, the developers also saw it as an unlikely source of profit. Finally, the amiga was one of the most pirate-prollific platforms back in the day, and many devs considered that making high budgeted games for it was an outright suicide.

>>5133949
No disk drives and lower budgets. The European gaming scene was very amateurish and focused on bedroom coders making single load cassette games. They didn't understand how to properly use the Amiga's hardware. It was different in the US where game development was more professional and everyone had disk drives.

>>5133953
>Because the Amiga itself never found a true gaming audience in the states, with the rising influence of gaming consoles in the mid-to-late 80s
This is false because console gaming and computer gaming were two separate audiences with different kinds of games entirely. Console games=button masher shit, computer games=dungeon crawlers, flight sims, stuff like that. The audience for computer gaming was generally adult neckbeards while console gamers were children and normalfags.
>Finally, the amiga was one of the most pirate-prollific platforms back in the day, and many devs considered that making high budgeted games for it was an outright suicide
Also false because the amount of piracy on the Apple II and C64 was insane yet it didn't stop anyone from developing for them.

>>5133960
The piracy meme was an excuse also used to justify not releasing Atari 8-bit games. It was a nice way of saying "The user base of this computer isn't that big so it wouldn't be profitable to release games for it."

>>5133953
>Because the Amiga itself never found a true gaming audience in the states
It found a niche audience among PC gamers but that wasn't enough to keep it viable. Total Amiga sales for all 8-1/2 years on the market were about 4 million units, but less than a million of those were in North America and it seems that the UK alone accounted for almost half of total Amiga sales.

>>5133960
I suppose it was true in Europe where they didn't really have consoles and home computers were used as a substitute for them, although in America the computer gamer audience was more oriented around the CRPG/adventure/strategy axis and less towards arcade games.

Europe isn't one country anyway, it's many countries with widely divergent income levels, markets, and aesthetic/cultural tastes. Americans have more disposable income and the computer market here has always been a premium one. For some place like Hungary, a rubber keyboard Spectrum clone with absolute garbage cassette games made by students was acceptable, it wasn't here.

>>5133975
>with absolute garbage cassette games made by students was acceptable
We had those here, but they were freeware/shareware, not passed off as a commercial product.

A neckbeard with clip-on Spock ears playing an RPG on an Apple II was generally the stereotype of computing gaming back then, at least for Americans.

I hear it has the best version of lemmings. It also has Wipeout 2097 so it can't be all bad.

>>5133794
Backlash against amiga fanboys that would brigade every single thread they could telling everyone about how the amiga is better. Same thing happened with pokemon and genwunners. Even if the initial spergstorm is over people are still reacting as though its still going on with righteous indignation.

>>5133794
It's trash

Low quality, hacky games were ok on the ZX Spectrum because of how cheap and primitive it was, but the Amiga was capable of so, so much more and devs never really did it justice.

>>5134091
Eurodevs didn't have the resources to make anything good for the most part. US devs did and often phoned it in because they didn't think the Amiga market was profitable enough.

>>5134095
Sierra did anyway but as I've covered before, they didn't really care about anything but Apple and PC games. A lot of US devs didn't develop in-house for the Amiga anyway, they outsourced their Amiga development to Europe.

I mean, Commodore didn't produce a single viable machine after the C64 aside from the Amiga 500 and that was mostly purchased in the UK as a low end gaming box with no hard disk.

Microprose and EA did some nice stuff on the Amiga, not a lot of others did though. Sierra, LucasArts, Origin, all of their Amiga stuff was phoned in and extremely poor.

>go on LemonAmiga
>look up Earl Weaver Baseball
>comment/review section has about 4 posts
>look up Sensible Soccer
>comment/review section has about 40 posts
>yfw

>>5133794
Youropoor a500 babies have a meltdown when they hear Amiga was popular in the US in the mid-late 80's

>>5134135
>when they hear Amiga was popular in the US in the mid-late 80's
Not really aside from some PC gamers and video studios.

>>5133949
you're underestimating how early it was and how amiga was quite revolutional in bringing high quality computing to the house of an average joe

imagine if you were in 1995 and you were making a game for PSX when suddenly a time vortex appears and Playstation 3 devkit materializes itself in the middle of the room

it was kinda like that

>>5133794
I don't hate it, I just have no experience with it. Euros were the ones who were more into computer stuff like amiga and C64.

>>5134236
C64s were fucking huge here, it was one of the most common computers in the US at the time.

>>5134240
He's underage, never mind.

>>5133794
It's just Americans going full U-S-A U-S-A.

You can't shit on Euro devs for being amateurish then jerk off to shareware shit and expect me to take you seriously.

>>5134258
I don't jerk off to shareware.

>>5133794
it's not. it's only hated by poorfag americans that were stuck using inferior apple macs and pc. amiga was got-tier everywhere else in the world. even the japanese used it for development of console and arcade games.
>>5133824
> hi, im zoomer cancer that's never had an amiga
colour me shocked.
>>5133845
> reddit
>>5133953
> Dedicated developers are often quoted saying programming on the amiga was extremely easy and flexible
compulsive lying: detected
> Conversely most PC-based devs hated porting to the amiga
what a faggot. more amiga games were ported to pc than anything.
> Amiga itself never found a true gaming audience in the states
this is because americans are too retarded to know how to use computers.
> Finally, the amiga was one of the most pirate-prollific platforms back in the day, and many devs considered that making high budgeted games for it was an outright suicide.
imagine compulsive lying this much? oh my fucking sides.
zoomer revisionist history, everyone. utterly pathetic.

>>5133969
>This is false because console gaming and computer gaming were two separate audiences with different kinds of games entirely
This dichotomy was only just emerging in 1985. Before Nintendo, kids in North America still played videogames on home computers like the Commodore 64, Apple II, and Tandy Color Computers. And many of those games were arcade adaptations as would be common with late 80s consoles.
http://www.lcurtisboyle.com/nitros9/coco_game_list.html

It wasn't until after the Nintendo revolution that PC/console dichotomy really solidified. Of course it's true that computer games like Wizardry or Carmen San Deigo were distinct from Arcade-style games like Pac-Man and Space Invaders. But they were all available for home computers before Nintendo.

>>5133794
It may be a bad system with pretty much no redeeming qualities, but I doubt anyone hates it. It's just mediocre and irrelevant.

>>5134258
it's pretty fucking disturbing since it's a machine that's 100% engineered by americans for the american market. it's usual shit that's been going on for decades: americans too poor to own god-tier machine, too retarded to know how to use it. when they did work out how to use it, they mass produced tonnes of shareware shovel-ware that was continuously ridiculed.

>>5134396
> irrelevent
american retard logic, everyone.

>>5133969
> Europe where they didn't really have consoles
compulsive lying american: detected and ignored
>>5134095
> Eurodevs didn't have the resources to make anything good for the most part
amazing. i wonder how they were able to make most of the games and manage to have an incredibly large demo scene? i guess it must have just been caused by black magic or some shit? what a moron.

>>5134395
> it wasn't until after the Nintendo revolution that PC/console dichotomy really solidified
> dichotomy
> nintendo revolution
TOP KEK

>>5134393
>it's not. it's only hated by poorfag americans that were stuck using inferior apple macs and pc
PCs and Macs were a lot pricier than Amigas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDs0hP4JYJs

>>5134395
>This dichotomy was only just emerging in 1985. Before Nintendo, kids in North America still played videogames on home computers like the Commodore 64, Apple II, and Tandy Color Computers. And many of those games were arcade adaptations as would be common with late 80s consoles
Arcade games were common in the early 80s on home computers when disk drives were expensive and tape and cartridge software was normal. After the video game crash, most computer gaming was Wizardry kinds of shit because arcade games stopped being fashionable and disks became universally available.

The VIC-20 and CoCo for example had mainly arcade stuff because the user base rather seldom had disk drives. Most of the traditional computer gaming genres like dungeon crawlers started on the Apple II because it was a more expensive, disk-based machine that lent itself better to those kinds of games.

>>5134435
Also most of the early stuff for the C64 was arcade kinds of games, after 84 most NTSC C64 games were CRPGs, wargames, and adventures. Arcade ports were still around, but they were usually just outsourced to Europe and then converted to disk and NTSC for the US market. I would struggle to think of a post-1984 C64 arcade port that was American-developed.

>>5134395
I would say by the late 80s, yes, computer gaming and console gaming had definitely split into two separate entities while they were more closely intertwined pre-85.

>>5134440
there were hardly any made in the US. European developers were the only ones competent enough to program them. this is why a shit-load of games remained PAL only until they were NTSC fixed by crackers (as the software developers had NO interest in making software for the cancerous US market, much to their annoyance and autistic raging). I see going by this thread americans are still autistic raging they were ignored by the rest of the world? oh my fucking sides. they might want to get used to that. I used to make c64 software that would detect an NTSC machine and refuse to load and reset the machine, just because I thought americans were pure cancer. I see nothing has changed? T O P F U C K I N G K E K

>>5134454
>there were hardly any made in the US
After 84, yes.
>European developers were the only ones competent enough to program them
Uh, no. Most of those arcade ports on home computers were awful. C64 Double Dragon was the most obvious and notorious one, but there were many other examples.

>>5134454
>I used to make c64 software that would detect an NTSC machine and refuse to load and reset the machine, just because
Stopped reading there. There's no way to detect in software on a C64 whether it's running on an NTSC or PAL machine.

>>5134473
> stopped reading
probably because you're a computer illiterate american that has no idea how the c64 works.
http://codebase64.org/doku.php?id=base:detect_pal_ntsc

It's harder to code animation on an NTSC machine because of the faster screen refresh. The CPU is faster on NTSC machines but not enough to make a big difference. So it's easier to do a lot of things on PAL simply because PAL machines are slower.

>>5134404
It is though.

People care about American games outside of the US.
People care about Japanese exclusive games outside of Japan.
Nobody cares about Euro games outside of Europe.

>>5134483
As that page explains, the ID byte at $02A6 often gets overrwritten so it is not a reliable check.

>>5134473
>>5134489
> retard that can't read assembler code
> read one line and stopped reading
see:
> The easiest way to determine cycles/rasterline is to count the rasterlines:

312 rasterlines -> 63 cycles per line [PAL: 6569 VIC]
263 rasterlines -> 65 cycles per line [NTSC: 6567R8 VIC]
262 rasterlines -> 64 cycles per line [NTSC: 6567R56A VIC]

top fucking kek. illiterate retard american: confirmed

Doesn't have Doom

>>5134454
You will immediately cease and not continue to access the site if you are under the age of 18.

>>5134495
> be american
> know nothing about computers
imagine my shock

>>5134454
>I used to make c64 software that would detect an NTSC machine and refuse to load and reset the machine, just because
Stopped reading there. There's no way to detect in software on a C64 whether it's running on an NTSC or PAL machine.

>>5133794
Western games are fucking garbage

>>5134498
see:
>>5134491

>>5134496
After a quarter century and having used the things since Windows 3.1, I think I know the stuff pretty well.

>>5134514
The underage kid you're replying to probably hasn't used anything older than Windows 7.

>>5134485
But they did arcade games on the NES and the 60hz refresh wasn't an issue, no?

>>5134525
That didn't mean it was easy. If you ever coded NES stuff, it's a quite frustratingly hard system to program for.

>>5134525
>>5134534
The NES actually locks you to the screen refresh because you can't modify the VRAM or PPU registers except during the refresh. On a C64, you can modify video stuff at any time and it's easy to get screen tearing. The point is that the lower refresh of PAL makes it easier to accomplish smooth animation and avoid tearing.

>>5134514
>I think I know the stuff pretty well.
pretty obvious you and most of the other amerilards here are 100% computer illiterate.
>>5134516
stay mad, computer illiterate.

>>5133824
>So many games that look and sound so cool, but the design and programming are horrible.
I had a flashback to Batman on amiga. Amazing looking game for 1988 but everything just felt clumsy and the menus were horribly over-designed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKFMmSXQ9BQ

You could always tell which games made by small teams of progammers with to little oversight. "we can add this and this and wouldnt it be cool if we did that other thing we talked about"? The end result is an unplayable clusterfuck where batman moves in slow motion and lurches around solving puzzles while looking amazing (by 1988 standards). But fuck me, those menus.

>>5134610
That was European game devs in a nutshell.

>make absolutely gorgeous audiovisuals but the game design itself is atrocious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWVMakbvffY

Just for fun here's the Apple II version. It's really fast, but at 0:04 you can see it's credited to US-based Quicksilver Software (>progam). I guess there weren't any European game devs who did Apple II stuff.

>>5134610
>>5134623
By the usual standards, that game is pretty impressive since Ocean were a big company with lots of money. If you want something truly horrifying, there's this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxef66P3Z3g

>>5133802
This is a lie. The awesome shmups alone (Battle Squadron, Xenon, Apidya, SWiV, Hybris etc) justify it being a great system. Also:

>Monkey Island 1&2
>Lotus 1&2&3
>Eye of the Beholder 1&2
>Wings
>Cannon Fodder 1&2
>Turrican 1&2
>Elite 1&2
>Populous 1&2
>Flashback
>IK+
>Alien Breed
>Battle Isle
>Road Rash
>Desert Strike
>Another World
>Indiana Jones
>Giana Sisters
>Bar Games
>Chaos Engineer
>Superfrog

>Pinball Dreams & Pinball Fantasies
>Speedball 1&2
>Rainbow Islands

>Wings of Fury

>>5134654
>90% of the list is PC ports or poor quality clones of console games

>>5134654
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TBt9CQd6tg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMrOMWaJAP8

If you think these are anywhere close to a Konami or Capcom shmup from that period, knock yourself out.

>>5134665
What perturbs me is how sluggish the scrolling is when there's plenty of NES shmups like Section Z that get substantially higher framerates out of a 1Mhz CPU.

>>5134661
> be ameritarded
> thinks these are pc ports to amiga and originally on console
T O P K E K
most of these games were on the c64 or amiga before they were on anything else.
ITT: american computer illiterates

>>5134671
Scrolling is practically free on the NES while on the Amiga it's a lot more CPU-intensive. But a computer and a dedicated game console aren't the same thing.

>>5134679
it's not, you dense faggot. do you know anything about how the amiga works?

/vr/ talking Amiga is easy way to determine whether you know anything about retro or not.

>>5134674
>Monkey Island
>Indiana Jones
>Populous
PC
>Elite
Original version was for the BBC Micro or something like that.
>Ikari Warriors
Arcade game
>Rainbow Islands
Arcade game
>Desert Strike
Mega Drive
>Battle Isle
PC
>the rest
Forgettable shovelware.

>>5134695
> caught out lying
> no real response
> leaves out the amiga titles he thought were pc ports
HAHA my fucking sides. this thread just keeps getting better and better.

>>5134690
Haha, what?

>my experience defines retro because mmmeeeeee~

>>5133794
retro means nes and snes
everything else is trash

>>5134435
I was an actual kid who played videogames in NA during those years. I had Atari2600, a Tandy CoCo, and a Mac Plus while friends had Commodore 64, Apple II, and Colecovision.
>After the video game crash
The Crash was 82-83. Maybe it's true that's when the divergence happened behind the scenes but as a player I certainly didn't notice. Computers had AstroBlast(1982), Karateka(1984), Ghana Bwana (1984) and they also had less arcadey games like Carmen San Deigo(1985), Oregon Trail(1985) and NFL Challenge (1985).

It really wasn't until the late 80s that the platform distinctions were obvious. Nintendo captured the fast-paced, side-scrolling, sprite-oriented games

>>5134415
Sorry if you have trouble understanding simple English. Here:
>dichotomy: a division into two especially mutually exclusive or contradictory groups or entities

>>5133794
what amiga games ARE worth playing? the megadrive seems to have a ton of them

>>5134404
>>5134409
is there anything funnier (or more pathetic) than butthurt Euros spazzing out with righteous indignation over some perceived slight?

>>5134797
About 90% of its library is either shovelware or games that have been ported to better platforms, so no

>ITT Americans who didn't do their homework on the system they're talking about

>>5133794
60% of its library is shitty Atari ST ports and it got its head kicked in by the Mega Drive, see: Ghouls 'n Ghosts.

>>5134487
>Nobody cares about Another World, Rayman, Medievil, Tomb Raider...
Never go full retard, anon

RIP Ben Daglish

Creator of some of the best Amiga music. Died this month.

https://youtu.be/j3HgeWTUA6M

Because 50hz.

Favourite game was Lotus 2 but I never went deeper in its library.
Also there is some video on youtube with someone porting wipeout 2 to amiga latest model,
so it was pretty capable.

>>5133794
Coz people only play shitty arcade ports on it and then immediately give up. The good stuff requires actual knowledge and/or research to find.

>>5134791
>Apple II
Nobody used those things outside of school though.

It's a Eurojank machine

>>5134716
>leaves out the amiga titles he thought were pc ports
No, sorry. Monkey Island was not an Amiga game originally even though LucasArts made a shitty Amiga port.

>>5134454
>>5134409
>>5134393
Is this guy literally 14?

>>5135514
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFPFFZs5m_w

How's it shitty? The sound and fluidity of the animation blow away the PC. The original PC version was 16 colour EGA and had bleeper sound. I guess later on they redid it in VGA but still lacked the same fluid animation and sound quality.

By the time you get to X-COM, the Amiga was really at the end of the road. Aside from the music, it's a pale imitation of the PC.

>>5135504
not commonly but there were some for sure. either way it doesn't really change the point that after the Nintendo, Computer (PC) game developers outside of Europe focused more on RPGs, simulators, tactical games, and experimental stuff rather than trying to compete with consoles on arcade-style games (platformers, shmups and the like).

>>5135562
Arcade-style stuff was more common in Europe because they didn't have disk drives and it's not very feasible to do Bard's Tale with cassettes. Also no game consoles until the 90s so computers served as a sort of fill-in for the lack of them.

>>5135567
Too bad really, a game like Football Manager would have been nice with disk drives where you could save your team roster and things like that.

>>5135518
Just a seething europoor trying to defend his meme machine nostalgia

>>5134665
These look like bad Flash games.

>>5135556
Local bus video and SoundBlaster 16 was the end for the Amiga, it couldn't keep up with PCs anymore at that point.

>>5135578
I'd say Doom was the true Amiga killer.

>>5135582
Arguably it could since it wasn't viable on the Amiga and its planar graphics.

>>5135567
After they did get disks on the Amiga, they were still too dumb to figure out how to make anything but single load Spectrum games with better graphics and music.

>>5134665
He should have used Banshee instead of Xenon. The latter isn't really that good of a game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6B8i1IrHkY

>>5135590
That's a little unfair though because Banshee is an AGA game and the others posted were OCS games for the A500.

>>5134639
>couldn't even be bothered to add sfx

Spawned a generation of furries.

>>5135620
Like someone else said, it was probably made by lunkheaded C64/Spectrum shovelware developers. On C64 games it was commonplace to have no sfx because the SID only had three channels. Not necessary on the Amiga at all since it had eight channels, but the devs were not smart enough to figure that out.

>>5135620
About that, how come majority of video games on the Amiga makes you choose between music or sound fx? I've seen some titles that did both, so what gives?

>>5135629
I guess this answers my question >>5135628

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_500

I double checked just to be sure and yes the OCS Amigas did have 8 voice sound. There was more than enough to support both music and sfx and not have to make a tradeoff like on the C64.

A machine as sophisticated as the Amiga needed proper support from the manufacturer and Commodore just wasn't that kind of company. It wasn't Apple and their very professional and rigid guidelines for Mac programming to ensure all software would look and work properly and be compatible with different Mac models and OS versions.

>>5135814
IDK, you reminded me of the Amiga software that broke when you tried to run it on a 1200 because the idiots programming it used absolute jump addresses even though the manuals warned not to. Apple's manuals did same, but they had a tighter level of control over developers than Commodore did.

If you don't know what I'm referring to, on 680x0 machines you were always told to use relative jumps instead of absolute ones with a JMP instruction because program code has to be relocatable. So you can't just do JMP $200000 or something, you had to do something like BEQ label to jump ahead or back 128 or whatever bytes. Absolute jumps were fine on something like the Mega Drive where everything maps into a fixed location, but you can't do that on a computer.

>>5134393
OY blimey! Pop'em in tha gob, mate.

>>5135628
How did Mayhem in Monsterland manage to have both music and sound fx?

>>5135857
You could use two SID channels for music and one for SFX, although this didn't tend to sound very good so all three channels and no SFX was more common.

>>5134741
You must be 18 to use this website.

>>5135573
It's like you can't criticize sub-average shovelware like James Pond without it being an affront to their childhoods.

>>5135890
it's like you can't talk about the amiga without retard americans having autistic rages.
> muh pc
> muh apple mac
> muh lead poisoning
never stops providing keks, much like your software industry has been doing for over 30 years

>>5135890
Look, before he had an Amiga he was squinting at fucking ZX Spectrum 'games'. I'd be blown away too.

>>5135915
> muh lead poisoning
> muh dangerously low iq
americans, everyone.

>>5135918
The fuck are you talking about lead poisoning for?

>>5135915
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWHX3wm3x8A

Really. I feel bad for the poor fucks having to play this.

>>5135925
B-but they could pirate the games, see? Doesn't that make them less shitty?

Did you know Clive Sinclair envisioned his computers as a teaching tool and he was butthurt when most people used them for games.

>>5135925
>Americans in the 80s
>had Ultima V
>Yuropeans had...this

https://issuu.com/amigajay/docs/theamiga101bookpdf

Apologize right now.

>>5135962
>90% of that list is mediocre shovelware

>>5133794
Because Americans must build their superiority complex on something, so they just happend to pick "le yuropoor Amiga" to shitpost about.
All while getting furious when anybody points out their vidya crash was irrevelant for the world and so was NES

>>5134820
... which is every Amiga thread, ever.

>>5134736
No, he's right. If you are an underage b8, you will have no clue whatsoever about Amiga, thus parroting memes about it and how it's "Eurojunk machine".

>>5135567
Imagine being a console peasant so fucking hard, you actually think PC is inferior option to consoles, especially in the fucking 80s and 90s. I guess if all you are planning to do is playing video games, then be my guest.

>>5134095
Funny how the crash happend in States, not in Europe...

>>5135984

>>5135995
Yuropoors were too poor to afford vidya.

>>5136048
Really.

>no consoles
>computers with rubber keyboards and no disk drives

>>5135995
You would've needed a video game market first in order to have a crash.

>>5136078
Or maybe all it takes is not being a moron who produces more games than there are consoles to run it?
Nah, I guess it's totally unrelated with common sense and is just about being yuropoor

>>5135995

>>5136048
> who is sir clive sinclair?
> what is a spectrum?

>>5136048
Considering the crash was caused by overproduction of low quality games peddled by everyone and their dog on the market and the original argument was how this characterised European mar... oh, wait, you are just meming

>>5136107
>Expecting from Amerifat to bother themselves with anything else than "Muh NES"

>>5136110

>>5136107

>>5135941
He didn't even intend the things to be used for games.

>>5136124
> He didn't even intend the things to be used for games.

>>5136109
>and the original argument was how this characterised European mar
Of course that's exactly what happened. Bedroom coders churned out mountains of unbelievably shitty tape games for the Spectrum, C64, and Amstrad that sold in bins at Tesco's. At least the price fit the quality (or lack thereof) while you were paying $40 for an Atari 2600 cartridge worse than even the worst Spectrum games and you couldn't just pirate/copy the thing if you didn't want to spend money on it.

Actually there was a market crash in Britain in 1984 if not as huge as the US crash which was also related to the oversaturation of home computer products.

>>5136135
>>5136130
The crash was mostly an Atari 2600 phenomenon and not as relevant to other platforms. It didn't really affect home computer sales which continued to boom through 1983-84 before experiencing a sharp slowdown in 85.

>Euros were poor back then thus shit games
>when this exists

It literally implies that people who made video games were swimming in dosh.

>>5136137
To be honest the Atari 2600 and Intellivision kept on being produced into the early 90s. The Colecovision was terminated in 84 but it wouldn't have been able to keep up with the newer NES anyway.

>>5136145
>Euros were poor back then thus shit games
What's incorrect about that? It's not a secret that Americans in general had/have more disposable income and lower living costs than Europeans. A computer with rubber keys and cassette storage was below acceptable market standards here where people generally did expect a real keyboard and disk drives. The birth of the consumer-level personal computer started in the US in the late 70s at a time when Clive Sinclair was still peddling calculator kits. It took about 3-4 years after the TRS-80 and PET before Europeans had consumer-level computers.

Commercial software was generally higher budget and most of what passed as commercial titles in Europe would be free/shareware here.

>>5136145
>It literally implies that people who made video games were swimming in dosh
Depends on who it was. Ken and Roberta Williams made enough to retire in their 40s and spend the rest of their lives poodling around on their yacht.

>>5136150
> be you
> retarded
> have no idea how many commodore 64s, amigas and PCs were sold throughout europe during the 80s and 90s
> computers engineered in USA that cost a fucking fortune when they were released
oh this "europoor" argument is really working out well for you. top kek.

>>5135625
How?

>>5136161
> has no idea who eric schwartz is
> the king of the furries
people should be banned from 4chan for NOT knowing this.

>>5136158
>have no idea how many commodore 64s
Yes and all with cassette players and abominable shovelware.
> amigas
Most of those were A500s with no hard disk and they were used to play more horrible shovelware, but it looked a little nicer than what you had on a Spectrum.

>>5136158
>computers engineered in USA that cost a fucking fortune when they were released
The PET and TRS-80 you mean? I think they sold for around $600 which was cheap by the standards of that time. The Apple II was quite a bit pricer.

>>5136167
this american retard logic is absolutely glorious. how is it that you're all this clueless? no wonder the communists are taking over.

>>5136169
> The PET and TRS-80 you mean?
>>> have no idea how many commodore 64s, amigas and PCs were sold throughout europe during the 80s and 90s
clueless and illiterate. utterly shocking. top kek.

>>5136161
Pic related. Eric Schwartz made Amy the squirrel Amiga's unofficial mascot.

If you read old Usenet posts, the American Amiga community in the late 80s-early 90s was small, but loud and annoying. I think the Atari ST was much more irrelevant here. Did anyone except MIDI musicians have those things at all?

>>5136167
The poor sods would have killed to have Bard's Tale or Defender of the Crown instead of, uh...Chuckie Egg or Jack the Nipper, but that's not gonna happen when you have cassette storage.

>>5135986
Americans just talk about games history, hardware, and stuff that is interesting to them.
Meanwhile hyper-sensitive Europeans with an inferiority complex lose their shit whenever it's pointed out that no one else gives a shit about the games they made in the 80s.

>>5136185
Oh, you could get disk games from American publishers here alright. Problem was, they were expensive and not many people had disk drives to run them on. The larger UK publishers like Domark and Ocean did release disk software for the C64 if you were rich.

>>5136095
>yuropoor
Didn't say anything about your nationality.

>>5134962
Wtf
F

Any market in which the Speccy was a viable option couldn't crash. You have to have standards to crash.

>>5136210
You also didn't exactly read my post, did you?

>>5136167
I'm always confused when reading things like this. It this genuine retardation or just try-hard pretending for juicy (You)s?

>>5133794
lol

>>5136190
Americans just talk about American game history, hardware that was present on their market, and the very narrow aspect of retro stuff that happend within their country.
Then get hyper-sensitive when they are reminded there is world outside their small bubble and said world experienced things differently, which cause them to make n-th Amiga shitposting thread.

But seriously, it never cease to amaze me how much vitriol burgers throw around Amiga. Is this the equivalent of O B S E S S E D meme? What's the fucking point, really? Or this is some sort of proto-console peasantry, where this or that console is "better" and people defend it with a fervour worth a crusade?

Why are the treads exclusively about bongs when talking about yuropoors? France had great companies too that produced mostly quality products. Companies like infogrames, bomico, cocktail vision, that were basically unaffected by the crash and kept the Amiga and Atari ST alive until they were gobbled up by ea or Ubi along the way.
Kult, purple Saturn day, operation stealth, time travelers, cruise for a corpse... Man that were awesome games whilst Americans were playing NES and Master System garbage.

>>5136185
I had Jack The Nipper 1+2 on tape tho. Took a whole meal to load.

>>5136265
Your point was old and tired, though. I'm just saying that I didn't mention your nationality. I realize that you're only in this thread because Burgerclaps live inside your head rent free 24/7 and your life is just sad enough that this is something you'll waste hours fighting on the internet about, but at least try to give people the benefit of the doubt when they reply to your asshurt.

>>5136283
>Why are the treads exclusively about bongs

>>5136276
You're just as guilty of shitposting and flamebaiting as the faggotclaps, though. You, like them, aren't here to discuss Amiga stuff. You just want to fight like retards over pointless shit.

What is the best Amiga game that's not a port and really had an impact on future games in that genre?
I'm going for Cadaver by the bitmap brothers. I still see remnants of it in Dark Souls.

>>5136276
>it never cease to amaze me how much vitriol burgers throw around Amiga
There isn't much, though. It's all in your head. For us it was just Tuesday.
Every platform gets shit on here. There's not a single one that escapes criticism. Normally, the response is just counter-arguments and banter about the console. But whenever the Amiga comes up, Euros instantly load their diapers and start sputtering about Americans this and Americans that. In this case you can see the insecurity in the sarcastic "top kek" in every post. This is an obvious attempt to try and cover up how badly their feelings were hurt by criticism of their beloved Amiga.

>>5136326
>Every platform gets shit on here. There's not a single one that escapes criticism.

>2600
The games are just too primitive
>NES
The play mechanics haven't aged well and shovelware
>Genesis
Sanic was a meme game for furries
>SNES
Casual games for Nintoddlers
>Saturn
>Dreamcast
Fuggin' Bernie Stolar, I swear
>N64
Small game library
>PS1
Shovelware, meme JRPGs

>Apple II
School box for playing Math Munchers, otherwise irrelevant
>C64
Shovelware, poor reliability
>Spectrum, Amstrad
Primitive sound and graphics, Euro shovelware
>Amiga
Furries, Euro shovelware
>PCs
Nerd shit, real men play button masher games like Tekken

>>5136326
But wasn't the Amiga an American computer? That's weird.

>>5136283
>Kult, purple Saturn day, operation stealth, time travelers, cruise for a corpse... Man that were awesome games whilst Americans were playing NES and Master System garbage.
Those games were mostly early 90s so more Genesis/SNES-era than NES.

>>5136349
>But wasn't the Amiga an American computer? That's weird.
It was and designed by ex-Atari engineers, but about 70-75% of the userbase was in Europe. That's not to say an American Amiga community didn't exist, it very much did and it gave us Mssr. Schwartz among other things.

>>5136351
Besides, most of them had PC ports.

>>5136283
>Kult, purple Saturn day, operation stealth, time travelers, cruise for a corpse... Man that were awesome games whilst Americans were playing NES and Master System garbage.

That's ok, we had more than enough LucasArts, Accolade, EA, Microprose, and Sierra stuff to keep us occupied.

>>5136185
Yeah I guess so. After the early days of mostly arcade games, the NTSC C64 game scene became dominated by sprawling multidisk adventure epics.

>>5136371
Well, it's not like Europeans didn't have access to those games. Flightims were huge on Amiga, so was Test Drive.

>>5136375
>Well, it's not like Europeans didn't have access to those games
They did as expensive imports.

>>5136349
Pointing that out will offend the sensitive Europeans.

>>5136373
I do agree. NTSC C64 games were more nerdcore and not as casual/kid-friendly as most of the PAL stuff.

>>5136379
Nah, I remember the shops being full with American games. Snes had to be imported, but American PC and Amiga games not.

>>5136384
The early stuff in 82-84 was mostly arcade games. The shift to mostly strategy kinds of games came later.

>>5136390
That was most likely because the early C64 stuff was made by Atari 8-bit and VIC-20 programmers and those machines had largely arcade stuff. As they got a little more experienced and shook off that VIC-20 cartridge game mentality, the stuff shifted towards more Apple II-esque strategy titles.

>>5136380
But nobody has a problem with that in Europe, mate. So nice projection.
The point stays - it's American computer and Americans hate it. Which IS confusing.

>>5136326
>There isn't much, though
This entire thread has maybe 10 posts that aren't shitposting. On either side of the pond. So I say - it gets shitted a lot and I simply don't get it. Essentially making an Amiga thread is equal with getting it derailed or outright started with flamebait

>>5136397
It's not hate it's amused teasing and indifference, which is what REALLY makes you seethe.

>>5136397
Nobody hates the Amiga, we just find it kind of silly to see Europeans going to bat to defend low quality shovelware because mmmuh childhood.

>>5136403
>shitposting = hatred
I take it you've never visited any N64 threads.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKp_fP06f0Q

>>5136408
Only that nobody does that either. Standard reply defending Amiga actually desperately lists the GOOD stuff from it (which is usually late 80s, early 90s), which is then proceed to be dismissed as "shovelware shit" anyway, because "not part of my childhood = bad".
The most confusing part is that this is (in theory) not /v/ and average poster who remembers those times is closing (or passed) 40. Meaning we have theoretically adult people chimping out like 12 years old about hardware as old, if not older than them.

Makes no sense whatsoever to me.

Come on man, DOS was much worse than Amiga OS (where you got preemptive multitasking, a GUI, flat memory model, and real plug and play straight out of the box). Even Windows 95 was worse than Amiga OS. Shit, everything else you could buy in those days was better than the shit Micro$haft was peddling. MacOS, OS/2, RiscOS, NEXTStep, any Unix system...all technically better than DOS or W9x.

>>5136446
>The most confusing part is that this is (in theory) not /v/ and average poster who remembers those times is closing (or passed) 40.

A large amount is clearly zoomers just repeating shit off of some idiot Youtuber. Especially weird shit like claiming Amiga games had "either music or sound effects," and the completely baffling "games were bad for it because they came on cassettes(!)," which repeatedly get posted. What mongoloid originated this FUD?

>>5135590
Why the fuck everyone likes Banshee that much? It had pretty artstyle and that's it.

>>5136836
Its arcade like gameplay and story literally blew everyone away back in the day.

>>5135962
Ok, let's start with #101 - Worms...
>Whats special about the Amiga version?
>Amiga exclusive!
My God, lies from the line fucking one.

>>5136868
It's The Director's Cut you dingus. It was an Amiga exclusive.

>>5136868
It's The Director's Cut you dingus. It is an Amiga exclusive.

>>5136868
Is this is how reading comprehension in negative value looks like?

>>5136878
>>5137132
If you have to stretch the meaning of exclusive this far then you have a problem my friends. I love Amiga myself (no nostalgia involved, it's just a blast to emulate and there are some legitimately golden titles there) but this is just laughable.

>>5137157
How exactly is it laughable? The original version of the game was created for a programming competition run by an Amiga gaming magazine at the time. Its home is on the Amiga.
TDC introduced gameplay and graphical enhancements, a plethora of new weapons that are considered classics, such as Concrete Donkey for instance. These weapons made their way into Worms 2 and I can guarantee that few people are aware that they were first introduced in The Director's Cut.
It's the definitive Worms 1 experience.

>>5137157
Laughable or not, it doesn't change the fact that the game in question was in fact Amiga exclusive and you were in fact wrong.

>>5133794
The good games aren't obvious and well known, they also take time to appreciate because the controls are usually very complex and you need a manual to explain how the mechanics and controls work. Nobody downloads games and manuals - they just pick a handful of obvious garbage roms like shitty arcade ports and maybe turrican, then they play them at the wrong refresh rate then after 30 seconds they go "this is shit" and turn it off and write the system off. They're foolish and short sighted.
It's not like a console where you can just pick up your 2 button controller, hit start, and within 10 seconds you're runnin and jumpin.

>>5133794

Mostly Amerifats here who just wank over the NES

>>5133794
The Amiga had no great exclusives that really drew me to it and away from PC and Mac games at the time. Nothing on it impressed me enough to throw money down and import my own and find a converter to use it in the states.

Compare that against an X68K computer that I imported in 1999 for fairly close arcade ports and games I couldn't even understand let alone play.

>>5134081
It definitely does have the best version of Lemmings.

It also has the best versions of Poplulous, Syndicate, the Lotus racing games, Shadow Of The Beast games, Cannon Fodder, Secret of Monkey Island, Battle Isle, Dune II, Bubble Bobble (other than arcade), Rick Dangerous, Battle Chess, Rampage (other than arcade), Worms, and many more.

If you look at comparisons of various ports of games, the Amiga versions are more often than not the best looking and sounding out of the bunch. It was simply the most powerful hardware of its day, and it shows.

There are also tons of games that aren't ports, that are fantastic. The library of Amiga games is so huge, (over 6000 games) and 60% or more are not that great. If you know what to look for though, it's an absolutely incredible gaming platform.

The major fallback was the lack of 2+ buttons on the controllers, which severely hurt some ports, and made a lot of platform and racing games awkward. The system *really* excels at adventure, strategy, simulation, and other mouse-driven games.

TL;DR Amiga is underrated. Europeans know what's up. I'm Canadian though.

>>5139482
>If you look at comparisons of various ports of games, the Amiga versions are more often than not the best looking and sounding out of the bunch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1i8SpE6cIc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH3emf7NGg0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuvgUfHP1cE

Yeah...no.

>>5139594
Serious? Your argument is cherry picking two horrible ports that I didn't mention, and a game that was original released in 1980.

I did say "more often than not", not always.

Good job, detective.

>>5139619
>Serious? Your argument is cherry picking two horrible ports that I didn't mention, and a game that was original released in 1980.
Huh? Which of the three games was released in 1980?

>>5133794
Because Amiga is the retrocomputer choice of /a/ and /vr/ isn’t focused around Chinese cartoons.

>>5133794
Most of the people who shitpost here couldn't afford one.

>>5139639
Oh sorry, 1983. King's Quest is not exactly a showcase of the abilities of the Amiga.

>>5133794
Style over substance: the system. Plus it's mostly European, which means flickery 50Hz shit.

The only redeeming feature is tracker music, and I don't need an Amiga to listen to that. (Although the aliasing distortion of the original hardware is an important part of the sound, because it adds some high frequency content that's otherwise rare because of limited RAM. Good players can emulate it, e.g. with the render.resampler.emulate_amiga setting of openmpt.)

We've been over this and over this. Sierra didn't give a flying shit about anything except Apple and PC machines. Their Amiga ports were 100% phoned in.

>>5135628
>Not necessary on the Amiga at all since it had eight channels
Four hardware channels (with disgusting hard panning). You could mix more in software if you didn't need the CPU cycles for something else, like an actual game.

>>5139684
The European stuff was mostly shit-tier arcade ports and shovelware you don't need to play. Although I won't deny that Sierra and other American devs phoned stuff in at times, in general, the better stuff on the Amiga was of American origin.

>>5135925
I grew up with a ZX Spectrum. Several years ago, I spent weeks going through pretty much the whole library. 100% shit. Not a single game worth playing.

>>5135925
Why does his head turn green?

>>5139716
Color clash (poorfag video ram cost-cutting). Brits couldn't afford an individual color for every pixel.

>>5139716
Colour clash. The Speccy has a colour attribute system something like the C64 where each 8x8 block has to use the same colour.

The graphics themselves are 256x192 resolution and there's no actual text mode, the machine is running in bitmap mode all the time kind of like the Amiga. I don't recall exactly how the graphics memory was arranged, but I seem to remember it was fairly snarled.

I will give Sinclair credit for having a proper BASIC with actual graphics commands instead of requiring billions of POKEs. The BASIC was their own in-house design and does some things differently from Microsoft BASIC particularly matrice/string handling.

>>5136460
I always lol’ed at Amiga users bragging about plug n play back in the 90’s. Plug and play what? Who was making devices for Amiga then? Also, what was multitasking for? You popped the 3.5” disk out and reset the thing. It's just a video game system with a keyboard.

>>5139645
[citation needed]

>>5140865
>Also, what was multitasking for?
Preemptive multitasking 10 years before Windows had it and 18 (!) before Macs had it, although it wasn't terribly useful on an 8Mhz CPU. Multiple processes would slow everything to an absolute crawl.

>>5136346
>Amiga
>Furries

[citation needed]

>>5136283
Americans barely played the Master System.

>>5136164
>the king of furries
>not Doug Winger

>>5133808
Looks like a boring fucking snoozefest, just compare that stage design to OutRun stage 1.

>>5140918
Was multitasking terribly useful on an Amiga with a 7Mhz CPU and 1/2 a meg of RAM?

>>5140918
It wasn't until Windows 95 that GUIs and games could work together. In the 16-bit era, the things weren't fast enough and didn't have enough memory for that. The vast majority of commercial Amiga games didn't use WorkBench at all, you just booted them directly off the floppy and the game took over the entire system like it would on an 8-bit machine. Stuff that ran in WorkBench was strictly application software, utilities and some casual games.

With PCs, games usually just ran from DOS until the Windows 9x era because they needed total control of system resources. Windows 3.x was not very good at gaming for a number of reasons.

And Macs? Forget about it. No way to boot the system directly from a floppy (Apple saw to that) and you were stuck running everything inside an OS that also had shit-tier cooperative multitasking until after 9/11. The only games you could do on a Mac were casual stuff and things that didn't have much animation.

>>5140952
That was lame. On a PC, you could exit out of a game when you were done playing it and not have to reboot the entire computer.

>>5140949
IDK, the first Macs were single tasking only and multitasking appeared when the SE/Mac II came out, but it was just cooperative for many years.

>>5140949
incredibly useful if you had 1mb or more, which most people did. 512kb, eh. not so much. pc and apple couldn't match this level of multitasking for years.

>>5140986
Macs weren't very useful with 512k either but 1MB was the standard from the Plus onward.

>>5140952
>And Macs? Forget about it. No way to boot the system directly from a floppy (Apple saw to that)
Explain.

>>5140993
The Mac ROM routines were integrated with the OS and Apple also didn't document how to boot the machines from the ground up. The floppy controller especially was dependent on certainly very timing dependent firmware code.

>>5140997
Off topic: can modern PC’s be booted by any external media? Or has that been locked down too?

>>5140997

>>5140972
most pc games were hard disk installable, most amiga games used custom disk formats well into its lifespan.
>>5141006
yes, you can boot off a network image, bootable dvd/bluray or usb device.

>>5141019
That was the unfortunate result of hard disks not being well supported or cheap on the Amiga and most of the market being A500s.

>>5140991
i remember having to work with those old macs. for a machine with a 68000 cpu, they sure as hell were slow. but that's what happens when the cpu has to do everything with no help from any decent custom chips. if the amiga didn't have the blitter chip, it would have been as slow as a tractor too.
>>5141024
very true.

Try an Atari ST on for size, it also has no custom chips and unlike the monochrome Macs, it has to push around color data.

i just want to say that canyon capers was one of the worst games that I have had the displeasure to experience

The classic Mac OS had no memory protection, but then the Amiga didn't either. Motorola offered an external MMU however only workstations used it. Also the 68000 had a hardware bug that caused it to become unstable if you accessed an invalid memory location. Most workstations that used a 68000 got around it by having twin CPUs so one would cancel out the effects of the botched memory access.

>>5141036
quite right. it's not the easiest machine to program for. i have a lot of respect for demo programmers on that platform. they've been able to get some awesome stuff out of it comparable to amiga productions.

>>5141036
Atari STs are like a bigger Amstrad CPC. That one also had full 16 color bitmap graphics but it was just a frame buffer so the CPU had to do all the work and games ran like molasses.

>>5140948
On top of different environments you had weather effects like wind, snow and rain that affected your gameplay. Lotus had more variety. Also its music shits on Outrun.

Don't mind me. Just dumping some data.

rough Amiga sale figures:
United Kingdom 1.5 million
Germany 1.4 million
Italy 700,000
France 275,000
Scandinavia 90,000
Benelux 45,000
Rest of Europe 35,000
North America 600,000
Rest of World 400,000

somewhere around 5500 games released (years '85 - '97)
roughly 1500 Amiga original games, about half of that exclusive to the platform, rest is ports
approx. 200 of those ports have arcade versions
more than 2000 have dos versions
rest is other computer and console system ports

>>5140865
Just because you were never exposed to them, doesn't mean they didn't exist. They were mostly used in the big box amiga systems. Video production, sound production, and all manner of editing and television studios used Amigas almost exclusively. There was noting that on the market that even came close.

There are thousands of add-in cards available for Amiga systems. Video cards, accelerators, RAM expansions, SCSI controllers, IDE controllers, video editing suites, scan doublers, DOS emulation cards, audio cards, mp2 and mp3 decoders, amplifiers etc etc etc.. The list is absolutely massive.

Here you go: http://amiga.resource.cx

>>5141459
Glorious Video Toaster. In television stations and studios all over the world. I have heard of people still using it. I doubt many anons here that know of this beast's abilities. I have rarely ever seen it mentioned here. It was a powerful and much cheaper alternative to other broadcast quality graphics systems that were on the market.

found this toaster promo video.. it's really corny, but entire video was done on a toaster.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAIKfOdOTHg

>>5139710
>Although I won't deny that Sierra and other American devs phoned stuff in at times, in general, the better stuff on the Amiga was of American origin
It's odd that whenever people assert this they never give any examples.. I wonder why that is?

>>5141459
This is the USA's real legacy when it comes to the Amiga. First class application software (and until the mid 90's when they abandoned the market and were supplanted by Germans) add on hardware.
Deluxe Paint 3 was an absolutely seminal piece of software that was used heavily in game development for decades to come. LightWave 3D was also industry standard software for fledgling CGI that originated on the Amiga. The USA took the Amiga seriously as a business platform in a way the rest of the world never did.

>>5141863
>First class application software
Debatable. DeluxePaint and Video Toaster were software that played up to the Amiga's strengths. When it came to regular old office stuff like word processors and spreadsheets, the Amiga fell short by a long distance.

>>5141863
>It's odd that whenever people assert this they never give any examples
You really going to say that Microids or Millenium were better developers than Microprose or LucasArts?

>>5141904
The OCS Amigas were vastly inferior to a Mac or PC for office stuff.

>640x200 resolution
>8x8 text
>gacky blue and orange color scheme
>no monochrome capability
>no decent, cheap means of adding a hard disk
>no way to add an FPU for math-intensive software

Even the Atari ST was better and it was pretty popular in Europe as an office machine because it supported 640x400 with the monochrome monitor.

>>5134393
>it's not. it's only hated by poorfag americans that were stuck using inferior apple macs and pc. amiga was got-tier everywhere else in the world. even the japanese used it for development of console and arcade games.
Japs used either a IBM PC, NEC PC-98, or X68k box for development.

>>5141925
I know. Amigas weren't even sold in Japan at all, Commodore gave up on the Japanese market after 1982.

>>5133794
It's a bandwagon that, like many other bandwagons, exists for no reason. The bandwagoners have never touched or emulated an Amiga and only repeat words according to instructions.

>>5141347
That’s a weird timeline. So the best sellling Amiga is the A500, which is from, I’m guessing... ‘86. But the best year for Amiga was 1991?

Also, 1991 (in retrospect) isn’t a great time to invest in Amiga hardware. Didn’t Commodore collapse at roughly that time?

urlcut.ru/LOL

>>5141930
The A500 was sold from 87 to 91. Sales really took off when Commodore UK cut prices in 89 and offered the Ocean Batman game as a pack-in promotional deal for the movie. And yes, it was the most popular model by a quite overwhelming margin, about 75% of all Amigas ever sold.

>>5141930
>Didn’t Commodore collapse at roughly that time?
They filed for bankruptcy in April 94 so no it was quite a bit later.

>>5141932
Whoa! Just looked up Batman for Amiga. Yikes. That was the system selling killer app huh?

>>5141948
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H_loWZS9Jg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAsGL2Bucjs

It's not too bad if you compare the PC port. It does support VGA so the color palette is bigger but see how awful and choppy the animation is, also sound is PC speaker only although Adlib cards were available by this time.

>>5141958
Your right. It’s does look better than the DOS version. But it kinda answers OP’s question. I don’t think people hate the Amiga, not really. It’s just that a handful of Amiga zealots have been going on and on about how Amiga is some kinda super system on message boards since the dial up BBS days. Then you see a game running on it, and it’s just like.. “What is this shit?” “That’s the big deal?”

(Pic related, some shitty old Nintendo game that those stupid Americans like)

>>5141970
>(Pic related, some shitty old Nintendo game that those stupid Americans like)
On a 1Mhz CPU with character graphics (no bitmaps) and 2k of work RAM.

I agree that Microprose and LucasArts' Amiga titles were pretty good and so were EA's. A lot of other devs barely tried though.

>>5139180
>Nothing on it impressed me enough to throw money down and import my own and find a converter to use it in the states.
Uhm, you could have just bought one in the US. After all it was an American system.

>>5140949
Yes, I always had a mod tracker playing while doing pixelart in dpaint 4, or a second instance of dpaint.

Even the Rare founders said they were blown away at the quality and professionalism of Nintendo's games compared with the British home computer stuff.

>>5141970
You can have the best hardware in the world, but in the hands of programmers as shitty as the typical Amiga coder, all you're going to end up with is Yolanda and Scrappy Doo.

>>5142162
You have to feel kind of bad because when it was good, it was really good. This looks like 1994 in 1987.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7i6MHFPkdQ

>>5142162
Amiga coders make up a huge percentage of the still active demo scene tho. They are the best coders in the world.

>>5142173
>This looks like 1994 in 1987.
Not really. That saber duel looks rather 1985 to me. NES had Mike Tyson's Punch-Out in 1987. As a whole, that game looks like really nice for a 1987 game, compared to say Final Fantasy 1 or Pool of Radiance (1988). But only marginally so, not as if it was 5+ years advanced. Arcades had beautiful AND smoothly animated games like Operation: Wolf, Rastan, Double Dragon, and Contra.

Actual games you could play in 1994 at home include Doom, Kings Quest VII, Warcraft, Street Fighter II, and even Donkey Kong Country for meme graphics. Arcades had stuff like Darkstalkers and Tekken. Pirates! doesn't come anywhere close to looking as good as those games.

>>5142295
Agreed. The coding skill wasn't the problem. The problem is that sceners are all terrible game designers. E.g. look at Project S-11 for Gameboy Color. Technically impressive and plays like shit.

There's about 10 games of any worth on that platform and that's being generous. I mean, it's on par with stuff like Sega CD, but pretty interesting when you think it was basically just developed in a handful of European countries.

>>5133794
I never understood the Amiga vs. Atari ST thing. I had an Atari ST. My grandparents had an Amiga. I liked them both. No hatred.

>>5136048
>living in switzerland
>had the amiga 500, atari 2600, sega mega drive, sega saturn, ps1, ps2
hmm

>>5142687
It's like Xbox vs PlayStation basically. Dumb in retrospect since both systems had their strengths.
Atari had less colors on screen but faster vector graphics, terribly bad sound, but great midi interface for professional musicians and it came with a sweat hires display.

>>5142851
*sweet hires display

>>5142687
The majority of people likes both but it's the confrontation that generates the most discussion. Neutral opinions don't stand out as much as divisive arguments.

>>5142663
Also agreed, although some become successful game developers later on. Shinen started with a sid tracker on the gba, were discovered by Nintendo and are still producing games for them. Same with housemarqe and resogun. And some of the farbrausch guys worked on Alan Wake afaik.

>>5142687
I never looked into Atari’s 16bit computers. Am I wrong in thinking they are basically Amigas without the graphics and sound chips? Was the ST more affordable?

>>5133794
ATARI ST MASTER RACE CHECKING IN

520FM

FUK DA AMIGA

MEDWAY BOYS
POMPEY PIRATES

..

ALL THAT good SHIT

its the king of shovelware

most games were designed around a fucking one button joystick despite having a keyboard and mouse available. Also, despite having amazing sound hardware most games either have music or sound, not both. And if they do have both then usually the sound effects sound like total shit which lessens the overall impact of your actions.

It's basically wasted potential. Decent hardware wasted by talent-less or inexperienced programmers. Watch this playlist of Battle of the Ports to see how disappointing the software really was. If Japanese devs got involved themselves instead of outsourcing to hacks, it could've been great.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjnUa-_dnEnMFh2ANIXDqLShwMuDu2Ols

>>5133941
>the same games they did in C64 and speccy and gave it better graphics and music
>he thinks this is a problem

>>5133965
>it found a niche market among a niche market
Yeah, it never found a market in the states.

>>5134498
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA…
*inhales*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA…
*inhales, dries eyes, chuckles a little bit more, then calls you a fucking retard*

>>5135860
I remember reading the "Let's make a monster" series in Commodore Format at the time: one of the Apex boyz said they "muted" the part of the music on channel 3 (percussion IIRC), played the effect, then unmuted it. Basically, a logical evolution of the arpeggio tricks people had been using on SID for years.

>>5143787
>>5143387
>>5143286
fagsame

It's really sad how Europe tried their best but still couldn't match up to the American industry. They didn't even come close.

All the really important stuff in computer game development and design back then happened in the US anyway. Europeans didn't do anything but make mediocre arcade ports and clones of arcade and console games. Essentially all computer game genres of importance, the CRPG, the text adventure, the graphical adventure, the flight sim, the RTS, they all originated with American developers.

>>5143871
>Essentially all computer game genres of importance, the CRPG, the text adventure, the graphical adventure, the flight sim, the RTS, they all originated with American developers.
Exactly. Imagine the gaming world without Text adventures? There'd be nothing on Steam for sale. Flight simulators and point and click adventures are also massively important to gaming these days.
As usual Europeans couldn't hack it and pioneered dumb genres like open world games. They could only make horrible games like Elite, Tau Ceti, Starglider 2, Midwinter, Hunter and Grand Theft Auto. Speaking of which I hear they
even released version 5 of Grand Theft Auto a while back. As you might expect, it's a shovelware arcade port that comes on cassettes and you can only choose music or sound effects. What a joke.

>>5143919
The GTA devs moved to America from their shithole 3 decades ago. If Yurop was so good why can't they hold on to their talent?

>>5143924
And why were the Rare guys totally overawed with Nintendo games compared with the blue and yellow bleeper shit on the Spectrum?

Europeans got better in the 90s once PCs took over, but the 8/16-bit era was very dire indeed.

>>5143924
>Taxation
>better weather
Pick only one

>>5133794
Euro trash is called trash for a reason.

>>5143924
Only the Houser bros moved to New York, the actual devs stayed in Edinburgh.

>>5143868
When Polygon 3D took over we became better than you ever wished.

>>5140914
Amigas are well-known for having built-in genlocks. It made them the hardware of choice for early fansubbing groups.

>>5135914
>>5135918
You can tell how this fag's dad had a lead factory and got ruined after the trial that proved them wrong

https://www.pagetable.com/?p=603

BTW, read up about Maniac Mansion if you think only Europeans knew how to code a C64 game. There's some ridiculously complex stuff going on there.

>>5144734
>It made them the hardware of choice for early fansubbing groups.

[citation needed]

can anyone help me find this old music video done on an amiga?
it has some girl getting off the subway and going home i think, but she looks into a hole in the wall of some shop, and he says something about not meaning to scare her,
then theres some trippy shit with an egg
i know its pretty fucking vague but someone has to know what im talking about

>>5135914
>it's like you can't talk about the amiga without retard americans having autistic rages
Well yeah because you guys massively overstate the quality and relevance of games for the amiga and spectrum.

For example:>>5142173
>This looks like 1994 in 1987.
Except that it doesn't, of course, it's not even close. Then there was that thread awhile back saying something similar about Shadow of the Beast. Something like "games wouldn't look this good again for 10 years"

Obviously you're going to get flak for such blatant overstatement.

>>5146318
>Except that it doesn't, of course, it's not even close
Do I have to show you what the typical PC game in 1987 looked like?

>>5146238
Yeah well, Ron Gilbert was a professional who had real tools like a Unix workstation to code on. Half those Yuropean games were written on paper by some teenager who worked out the jump addresses in his head and took about three weeks of work.

>>5146238
>Sandy's tits were stored separately and XORed onto her
>it is not known why this was done, possibly to discourage people from making nude patches

>>5135994
>If you are an underage b8, you will have no clue whatsoever about Amiga
Hell, I'm almost 40 and I have barely any knowledge about the Amiga. It just barely existed where I grew up, aside from being talked in gaming mags. I emulated it recently so I could try the games I remember from my childhood that I was interested in but that's it.

It's complicated.

>>5146241
> reddit
>>5146456
> Half those Yuropean games were written on paper by some teenager
> be you amiertarded
> resorting to compulsive lying
woah woah woah. americans... that are pathetic compulsive liars that no nothing about programming or anything that went on outside the united states of mediocrity? fucking shocking. KEK.

>>5146318
>Well yeah because you guys massively overstate the quality and relevance of games for the amiga and spectrum.
Why do you keep complaining about things that never happened, anon. Where did the stupid yuropoor™ hurt you.

>>5136174
I came across some of these on youtube. Was the Amiga the unofficial furry computer?

Many of the games seriously aren't that good.

>>5147665
Denying the existence of a comment in this very thread. This uneasy relationship with reality is typical of people who imagine the Amiga to have had good games.

>>5147660
Did this guy have a frontal lobotomy or what?

It's out.

Amiga scene is alive and well.

>>5148610
I'd play that.

Thing about the Amiga is that most of the run and jump/gun games are inferior to anything you can get on a console. The more computer-ey stuff like strategy titles generally beat their PC equivalents in the 80s, but by the early 90s, forget about it.

>>5148717
There's any one of a dozen Genesis/SNES shmups better than this. They also didn't come on fragile floppy disks with copy protection, had controllers with more than one button, had zero load time, and could be rented from Blockbuster for $10.

>>5148741
The Mega Drive and SNES had newer chipsets than the OCS Amiga (three and five years newer, respectively) so it's not really a fair comparison, is it? Technology did advance quite a bit from 1985 to 90.

>>5148746
Both of them have a fuckton more sprites and also larger colour palettes. The MD has fewer colours total than the Amiga (512 versus 4096) but it can get more of them on screen at once (32 colours versus 64). It's also quite a bit easier to scroll the screen on the MD since it has tile graphics instead of bitmaps.

The Amiga does allow freedom of colour/pixel placement in a way the consoles don't, but in most regards it's less advanced hardware, but as you said it's also quite a number of years older. It does also have the high-resolution 640x200 mode but games really didn't use that much, only Workbench.

>>5148595
It's the same one dude talking about lead poisoning and lying. Its been going on too long to not constitute literal, unironic, clinical autism.

Think I'll always think of Turrican III as the Amiga game i had that wowed me. Sprite rotation, multi level parallax, those multi-sprite bosses console games showed off with, great sound and music, quick loading times, and it all came on a single floppy.

Yes there's Mega Turrican that has a few betterlooking backgrounds, but the music isn't half as good, a few levels are reworked and not as fun to play, and no hidden armor. I do hear III was a port of Mega but got released far earlier - didn't the original Turrican III get stolen at some Amiga show, so they had to make a new game?

>>5149196
1 and 2 are better Turrican games than 3

>>5149196
How do you get your game stolen and without any back ups?

>>5149082
We get those types, I guess.
Just like the one guy that champions composite video as the "one true video source of retro games" in every single CRT thread.

>>5148610
Holy shit. Is it any good?

>>5149223
>composite video as the "one true video source of retro games"
... it is though

>>5149751
No way, you're not a real gamer unless you use RF for everything.

>>5149695
Why don't (You) (yes, >YOU<) check it out?

https://mega.nz/#!6w8EjSbR!I2eXaSdWX7iiuE0zhq-PuHI1JiYGyL5fKEYvriUlFDE
https://mega.nz/#!UYVDhaDQ!dTsuD-89FaAfptyiKutl9VQdWz_buqYyzdsEYeD6d_o

>>5133794
It doesn't have very good games desu.

>>5150637
Almost 350 posts and somebody finally has the correct answer.

Mother fuckin’ genius here.

>meanwhile, /vr/ suck PC98 cock dry

>>5147709
>unofficial

>>5151419
rightfully so

>>5151419
It's either the erogefags or the aestheticfags.

>>5133794
europe vs america shitposting

>>5151523
Can you deny its aesthetic as fuck tho?

>>5149223
I mean, I prefer that to the mongs that champion RGB/SCART for everything.

>>5135570
Eh you do know that all amigas apart from the cd32 had disk drives right? I played and saved progress on few different football manager type games.

>>5151593
>being this triggered by a cable

>>5133794
Most of the posters on this board are insecure Americans who didn't grow up with the system due to market dominance in their region by Nintendo, they see it as a threat to the likes of the NES/SNES and have to rage against it. Also the some of the strongest aspect of owning the system at the time, such as the availability of coverdisc demos, being able to copy games from friends, cheaper games etc are not apparent to them.

>>5133794
it's because the board is on 4chan, and the Amiga is good.

>>5153818
well yeah I'd hope you could copy stuff. Who the hell would pay actual money for that?

>>5153818
anon you're projecting very hard.
This thread only exists because Amiga fans are insecure and full of rage at Americans for not really giving a shit about their childhood.

>>5153838

>>5134639
Yeah I would be grateful for piracy too if if saved me from actually spending money on this.

>>5153895
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tkSSDT8u5o

The C64 version interestingly has sfx but not music.

>implying the Amiga didn't have the best soundchip of any 16 bit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN4w2-yr_b8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQSsq7HCNHw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0FaAs4M3d0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiYuq6Ac3a0

Atleast we never had a "video game crash"

>>5133794

>Is there any reason why Amiga is outright hated on this board?

Is it? I think the problem is Americans that never had the Amiga that play the janky games now 20+ years too late and think it sucked. The truth is though that if we all hadn't grown up on Nintendo we would be equally harsh on old Nintendo games.

The Amiga offered unparallelled graphics and the games often had a unique dreamy art-design for some reason, and there was plenty of innovation and passion in the games due to the myriad of small-to-solo studios developing for it (which also led to a lot of janky games). It was my favorite game platform as a kid, I never had one but I played it often at a friends house and it blew away anything on the NES/SNES/Megadrive for me as a kid. The games felt more adult as well, which was a big plus for me at the time, plenty of gore and even sometimes nudity.

>>5133969

>I suppose it was true in Europe where they didn't really have consoles

Nigger what. I had a NES and a Megadrive, and my friend had an Amiga. The Amiga was far superior to the NES and Megadrive for me back then.

>>5154721
What subreddit was this pasted from?

>>5154735

The subreddit of my mind

The Amiga was a case of selling the sizzle without the steak. Games that looked so pretty but the design and controls were gruesome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y7lXK2apqE

I'm very sorry and my heart goes out to anyone who had to play this as a child.

>>5154721
>and there was plenty of innovation and passion in the games due to the myriad of small-to-solo studios developing for it

If you think Yolanda or The Final Trip had any passion or innovation to them, knock yourself out.

>>5133794
Because most of this board is American. Commodore stuff was primarily popular in Europe.

>>5154753

Those are two games out of hundreds, if not thousands. The Amiga was a gold-mine of indie development.

>>5154756
>Commodore stuff was primarily popular in Europe
Which particular Commodore stuff we referring to here?

>>5133975
>For some place like Hungary, a rubber keyboard Spectrum clone with absolute garbage cassette games made by students was acceptable

Spectrum users were treated as niggers by the Commodore users, though (and vica versa). And don't get me started on how popular the C16 and +4 were over here.

>>5154759
The Amiga line, the Plus/4, and business models of the PET had most of their market share in Europe.

It wasn't very fair to compare:

>console games made by big budget companies like Capcom with the best programmers, musicians, and stuff in the world who had up to a year to work on it after which a certification board would meet to determine if the game was ready to ship
>vs something slapped together on an Amiga by some Eastern European teenager in about six weeks

>>5140972
>On a PC, you could exit out of a game when you were done playing it and not have to reboot the entire computer.

Yeah, but rebooting a PC at the time took 3 seconds. 2 if you turned off ram check.

>>5141970
>(Pic related, some shitty old Nintendo game that those stupid Americans like)

Yeah, and compare this to some shitty old Amiga demo that you could code on the machine if you wanted.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBzVMSUMGXU

>>5154419
>using Dune as an example of all things

Amiga version had like 3 songs total, one was exclusive, and two were VERY poor conversions of the Adlib originals. The PC Version had 8 or 9 songs and they pushed the Adlib to its limit. It also supported the Adlib Gold with its add-on card - on this latter, the game sounded complete sci-fi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDudAahpoGA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usTwtyjepPo

>>5154759
>Which particular Commodore stuff we referring to here?

Damn near all of them? C64 had specific models sold for Germany alone, C16/+4 were gigantic in the eastern bloc, Amiga had over half its sales in the UK alone, etc.

>>5154814
VIC-20 and C64 were huge in North America, everyone had the things. The C128 was IIRC more common here than it was in Europe. The Plus/4 and Amiga, yes they were more Europe.

>>5154809
>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDudAahpoGA
Goddamn, the memories.

>>5154793
Demos are not games though.

I've seen some NES demos but they weren't very good though.

>>5154827
>VIC-20 and C64 were huge in North America, everyone had the things

Yeah...but you didn't have any demo culture and never really pushed the hardware like European coders did. Most NTSC games don't look very impressive to me.

>>5154887

>>5146238

>>5154887
Demo culture was more of an accidental outcome of PAL machines having more time during the vblank for graphics effects.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGgGMgRHpKY

They're trying to tell me this is as good as Gradius or Salamander.

>>5154919
Nobody's claiming that but at least you didn't pay $60 like you would for a Nintendo cartridge and you could give copies to your friends.

>>5154827
https://www.lemon64.com/games/votes_list.php

PAL and NTSC titles are fairly evenly represented. It is significant though that of the top 10, six came from NTSC devs.

>>5154939
Is it though? That's one game away from being dead even.

If you go by the top 20, there's 11 NTSC titles and 7 PAL. Also I'm not sure why they included that shitty port of Bubble Bobble.

>>5154939
I did the grand tally for all 100 games. It worked out to 61 titles from NTSC developers and 39 from PAL ones.

>>5154997
What's funnier still is that most of the people voting on that list were Euros since Lemon64 has a heavily Europeen user base.

I can't figure out why Americans jerk off to the Apple II when it was just basically a ZX Spectrum at 5x the price.

>>5155009
But nobody used those things except at school.

>>5154814
>C16/+4 were gigantic in the eastern bloc
Really just Hungary.

>>5154997
#owned

>>5154997
>rent free

OOOOOOONLYYYYYY AAAAMIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA MAKES IT POSSIBLE