/vr/ - Retro Games

I suggest you start with 5. PS1, FM Towns, Windows or whatever floats your boat. Just avoid the American releases.

>Do you guys consider this version to be the best trilogy version?
Yup, absolutely. The SNES version has some missing things,

>>5129636
>>5129634
Well shit, I'm onto the PSX trilogy right now thanks for the pic.

Nani the fuck? Am I really starting out with a level 3 geared party that has a Samurai?

>>5129636
Why would you want to switch to monaural?

>>5129653
You can create samurai and bishops with a high enough roll. Only lord and ninja are restricted to reclassing.

>>5129628
Automaps are for fags.

>>5129636
>Messages: Japanese (1) Japanese (2)
What's the difference?

I thought I chose English. Is there something I fucked up?

>>5129659
You can turn it off.

>>5129660
I haven't compared them but I expect that one is the original translation and another is a new translation.

>>5129661
That's just the spell descriptions which weren't in the original. Just get the regular manual.
http://wizardryarchives.com/downloads/archivesmanual.pdf

>>5129663
>http://wizardryarchives.com/downloads/archivesmanual.pdf
This whole thing is so glorious. People who never read this manual think Wizardry wasn't for beginners.

>>5129661
It doesn't translate the port-added text, only the text from the original game. tldr if you can't read it, it's not something you actually need to read and not something you'd even have seen if you played an English version.

>>5129628
Maybe for casuals. You play it on the apple ][ like the developers intended, of course.

>>5129653
smalltime

>>5129694
I'm legit thinking of rerolling shit and transfer the starter gear, I'll just use the starter party to make some gold.

>>5129694
Why would you create a human? They are simply worse than all other races. With 29 points you could create a lord

>>5129705
Can't lords be humans?

>>5129705
>other races

>>5129707
Humans only get 46 attribute points whereas elves and dwarves get 48, gnomes 49 and hobbits 50.
Humans also have no stat at 10 so they aren't suited well for any class. Normally you will want to start with vitality and your class attribute at 18.

>>5129692
If we're gonna pretend to play the game "like the developers intended" then you should stop being a rerollfag for muh minmaxing.

>>5129734
Or even worse: resting in something other than the stables.

>>5129739
Those options aren't as inaccessible as infinitely rolling the dice. Games like Stranger of Sword City let you reroll your stats with a button press, here you have to go through the whole character creation process over and over again.

You're only lucky the computer isn't a real DM putting up with your shit.

>no bows or crossbows
Why the fuck am I given FOUR melee classes then?

>>5129756
Play 5 or the Gaidens if you want weapons that can attack from the back row.

Lord and ninja are supposed to be mutually exclusive since one is good and the other evil and you can't recruit both alignments at the same time. Plus both are advanced classes you can't begin with so the idea is that you begin as a fighter and retrain into lord at a later point.

How's the NES version with the AC fix? https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1677/

>>5129734
Of course. Anyone who minmaxes does not understand role-playing and should be fucking around with excel spreadsheets instead or something like that.

>>5129763
I mean, the whole notion of a "computer RPG" began with making the computer act as your "Dungeon Master on demand", so rerolling or glitching is basically just the spoiled brat taking advantage of the fact that no DM will give him shit for demanding to reroll his character sheet.

>>5129762
Do they also fix the censorship and the missing transfer options?
Why do you want to play the NES version in the first place?

>>5129770
Just asking idk starting with level 3 characters sounds like streamlining the experience.

The original Apple versions have a clunky interface that requires you to type out the full names of spells. The C64 versions (really C128 versions) have a more streamlined interface. The PC versions have game breaking bugs, avoid those. The NES versions suck crap, ignore them. JPC Wizardrys are just the C64 version but with a bit higher screen resolution. There was also a Mac version of at least W1 for the original Mac 128/512.

>>5129784
Guess I'll just delete the lvl 3 chars and make my own party.

If you're used to classic jrpgs I'd suggest Wizardry Tales of the Forsaken Land, but it's not retro ;_;

>>5129784
>JPC Wizardrys are just the C64 version but with a bit higher screen resolution.
More like the C64 is just the JPC version with lower resolution and removed language option.

>>5129790
Whatever. It's all the same primitive wireframe graphics because Sir-Tech couldn't be bothered to update anything.

>>5129628
Play the SNES versions.

>PSX version
>thief can just spam disarm on a chest without triggering the trap

>>5129794
Wireframe is timeless and well suited for manual mapping.

>>5129692
>Literally got interviewed a little while ago saying the NES is his favorite version

>>5129843
Who got interviewed?

>>5129849
Robert Woodhead

>>5129829
I played through the DOS version like half a year ago and I think my Thief triggered like two traps total the entire game. Just keep his Luck high, faggot.

>>5129853
He probably said Famicom and it got translated as NES.

>>5129858
>I played through the DOS version like half a year ago
Wizardry VI you must mean because the earlier ones were on self-booting disks and don't use DOS at all.

>>5129863
https://retronauts.com/article/915/the-mad-overlord-speaks-on-retronauts-episode-162
Around 1:20 said "on the Nintendo"

>>5129865
PC version, whatever. The Wizardry Archives one.

>>5129867
Remember that he lived in Japan since the late 80s.

>>5129784
In an ideal world, the C64 versions would have supported the VDC on the C128 which would have given them screen resolution closer to the JPC versions and also been able to use 2Mhz mode for better performance.

>>5129870
I was just debunking the idea of "developer intention" argument.

>>5129872
Why not just play the PC98 version?

>>5129880
"Well, you see, Brain, back in the 80s nobody in America had ever heard of a PC98. It might however have been nice if they'd bothered supporting hardware on computers available in this neck of the woods that could give higher resolution graphics."

>>5129867
He also said that he was impressed with how they managed to cram the whole thing into a cartridge while they leveraged the graphics capability in the dungeons.

So it can be either NES or SNES.

>>5129890
Can't be SNES because it wasn't on a cartridge.

The odd thing is that nobody in Japan actually seems to give a shit about JPCs, it's just Western weebs. You have nostalgiafags in Europe who jerk off to the Amstrad CPC and stuff, but so far as retro nostalgia does exist in Japan, it seems to be more about console games.

>>5129897
There's a Super Famicom version of Wizardry.
>>5129890
When someone say "for the Nintendo" 99.999% of the time they are talking about the NES. And he might be talking about how they manage to add things like walls and doors on the NES version which most Wizardry ports only had wire frame.

>>5129904
Nobody had NEC PC-8801s or Sharp X68000s at home. They were very expensive and mostly found in schools/universities. If anything, the MSX was probably the most common home computer in Japan in the 80s, but a strong computer gaming culture never really developed there for a variety of reasons.

>>5129907
>There's a Super Famicom version of Wizardry.
And it was distributed digitally in 2000.

>>5129913
I never found much on the MSX of interest anyway, it was mostly mediocre arcade/console ports.

Some purists will insist on the Apple versions because they're the originals. The fast disk access is nice but the interface puts you off; it was a lot more developed on later versions.

The first two were on the Mac. These would have been designed for the 128/512/Plus, so I'm not sure what's the newest Mac that will run them. Assuming they were well behaved and followed Apple's programming guidelines, maybe up to System 7.

As you can see, they were forced to totally redo the interface for the Mac and it's way easier to use than the other versions.

>>5129904
They have Japanese developed emulators and Project Egg as a commercial platform.
In Europe computers were used as consoles for children but in Japan you had the Famicom.

>>5129934
>In Europe computers were used as consoles for children
It was probably the same as in America. Some people programmed and used them for application stuff, a lot of them just treated them as console with a keyboard.

Wizardry 4 has never been rereleased not even in Japan.

>>5129945
Wizardry 4 got ported to the PSX.

>>5129949
And on PC88, PC98, PC88VA, X1, FM7, PCE-CD and Windows 9x.
The PS1 even had two different versions of the game.

Wizardry 1-5 are also on the PC Engine CD

>>5130013
Unlike the other systems they don't have an option to play them in English.

>>5129763
There really isn't much roleplaying to be had in Wizardry. You can't act like it is a comparable experience to a tabletop game, as it is extremely combat focused with limited loot and few puzzles or interesting areas to explore and basically no NPCs to interact with.

>>5130254
The difference to the tabletop is that you can actually see the dungeon from the view of your characters instead of being restricted to bird's eye perspective.
This allows far more immersive role playing.

>>5130292
You see wireframe corridors, but I don't think you gain much from them. Any interesting details are still conveyed solely through text.

I really like Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord, but if you were to try to run it as a tabletop game it would require a huge amount of expansion, rewrites, dungeon redesign, and balance changes to be any fun at all.

>>5129787
I can't wait for The Dark Spire to be considered retro so I can shill the shit out of it here.

>>5131120
I got bored as fuck.

>>5129694
I've actually managed to roll 59 once on Wiz 5 SNES
It was on a neutral character
WHY

>>5129787
Slow, too story heavy and misses the point of Wizardry

>>5129628
I think GBC is as close as it got to the "definitive version", but there were some changes to the dungeon layout (different grid size) so it's not quite as "faithful" as some of the others.

>>5129636
>Yup, absolutely. The SNES version has some missing things,
Nah, it's missing Thieves being able to backstab from the back row IIRC, and some other suiff.

>>5132989
>it's missing Thieves being able to backstab from the back row IIRC,
That's an option in the SFC version but it is an anachronism from 5. Thieves are supposed to be dead weight in combat.

>>5129843
>>5129867
Nah, he said it was ASCII's version that was the best.
So it's SNES.

Either way, SNES and PSX versions are sorta identical if you exclude the graphical differences.

>>5129628
if you want classic wizardry that Japan will never let go of, yes

but if you want a straight up evolution of it that makes its changes more meaningful, play 6 to 8. granted 8 can be barely considered retro since it was released in 2001 after multiple delays but it's probably the best thing to come out of the series before it caved in and taken over by the japanese

>>5133936
Modern Wizardries (and clones like Elminage) did adopt most of the good elements of 6-8 though, except for the skill system and text parser dialogue, which were frankly kind of broken.

>>5129949
How did that work? Since there where times you needed to spell things out.

>>5133894
The SFC version was released by Media Factory. ASCII only handled the early ports

Tell me /vr/, whats the best version of wizardy 5?

>>5136543
The FM-Towns is true to the original gameplay and interface while featuring high quality sprites and CD-audio.
PS1 and Windows offer extra options and different interfaces.

>>5136543
PS1 (New Age of Llylgamyn)

>>5129932
I have a Macintosh 2. I wonder if itll work for itm

>>5136559
Why japs love Wizardry so much?

>>5138796
I mean name a bigger game around 82/3 (depending on some devs this is around the time it started to come to Japan). Ultima might have more things surrounding it but until 4 they felt more half baked ideas. Wizardry however was massively complex and while the second half of the dungeon is sadly wasted space the first half is insanely complex for a game of that time.

>>5138796
it pretty much kicked off vidya rpg's as a whole, so they have a large reverence towards it.
i can't think of any other reason why they still make classic wizardry style games themselves.
honestly for me, it's a bit annoying how some game makers only change graphics but don't really innovate the base system, so they can end up feeling samey.
i'm looking at you experience.

>>5137595
It should work, as I said assuming the game followed Apple's programming guidelines. Once in a while they didn't, for instance the Mac version of Archon won't work on anything after the Plus because it reads the mouse directly instead of using the API calls, so this broke after the switch to ADB on the SE.

>>5129932
Somewhere midway through System 7 they dropped support for monochrome software.