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/vr/ - Retro Games


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5125413 No.5125413 [Reply] [Original]

You guys ever think that the 5th gen should have stayed 2D or mostly 2D until 3D graphics advanced to the point of what we saw in the 6th generation?

Most people that think older games aged poorly mostly say this in regards to the 5th gen of gaming when controls and graphics weren't fully fleshed out yet. Meanwhile 2D games from the 3rd and 4th gen are seen as timeless classics that will be good no matter what year it is. Just think of how much more amazing 2D games we could have gotten if most games in the mid to late 90s were 2D instead. This would also mean that retro /vr/ related games would basically mean 2D gaming for the most part and 3D would be seen as post 2000 style of games.

>> No.5125418

Not really. 3D controls and graphics wouldn't have gotten to the 6th gen point without the 5th gen's experimentation.

>> No.5125420

3D games that aren't in first person are objectively shit.

>> No.5125421

> magically jumping from Star Fox to Uncharted graphics with nothing in between

sure

>> No.5125424

>>5125418
They would have had a lot more time to experiment though and its not like there would have been zero 3D games before 2000.

>> No.5125426

>>5125421
see >>5125424

You would have had 3D games you just would have had mostly 2D games. Also in what world do you live in where Uncharted graphics are 6th gen and Dreamcast graphics?

>> No.5125428

>>5125420
Now this is shit taste

>> No.5125429

No if was fine. The only people who bitch about the "unplayable shitty graphics" are the ones that focus solely on the consoles from 93 - 96

>> No.5125434

>>5125424
I don't get what you're saying. If they're making fewer 3D games than they did irl, how are they getting more time to experiment? You gotta finish the game and see the results before you can actually learn from it.

>> No.5125435

>>5125424
how would they experiment if not on practice, you gigantic fucking retard? Just pour millions of dollars into TOP SEKRIT UNDERGROUND RESEARCH instead of actually selling games?

>> No.5125438

>>5125424
You're asking them to experiment around with 3D tech while not actually releasing any of it for profit.

>> No.5125440

>>5125428
Yes, I imagine your taste is pretty shit.

>> No.5125443

>>5125434
3D was rushed instead of developed on for awhile to see what works and doesn't work.

>> No.5125451

>>5125435
A lot of the shit they released in the beginning was puzzling as hell and can only be summed up as a bunch of greedy asshats looking to cash in on early 3D without knowing how to make their shit playable or even visually appealing. The only reason it took off so well was because of the aggressive marketing for 3D and the fact that it was novel concept for the time. It amazes me how so many of those awful games from back then were even green lighted despite playing like absolute shit. You'd think they would playtest their games more to get the right control scheme down but no that didn't come until better games showed these idiots how to do 3D.

They never needed to release anything. They should have just been playing the shit they were developing better instead and then they would have realized they were making some really shitty controls for their games. N64 alone showed people just how bad those early PS1 games really were.

>> No.5125470

>>5125413
I've thought this for a while. I detest the ubiquitous gameplay conventions of that era, tedious collecting, tightrope "challenges" (really just shitty controls + shitty camera), less difficulty than previous gens, always back tracking, painfully slow travel, more fmvs... it just goes on and on. The 5th gen is the weakest console gen of all time.

>> No.5125476

If 2D is so great why did it sell like shit? Checkmate atheists.

>> No.5125479

>>5125424
>>5125443
You guys obviously have never developed anything, you need people to play/use what you create for feedback. It's stupid to think they'll just go away underground for 10 years then emerge with great 3d games.

>>5125451
>without knowing how to make their shit playable or even visually appealing
You just described all business, and all videogames ever. I suppose NES shouldn't have released because they weren't at 16-bit color yet? You gotta be trolling. Why didn't they just 'go underground' with all vidya from the 70s until today? I'm sure they could have emerged after 50 years with impossibly utopian games!

>>5125470
>tedious collecting
You mean like modern games, eg mario odyssey? This whole post is retarded. There was a lot of experimental stuff that didn't pan out, such as with every new tech, but to say it's "omg objectively worst" is your nostalgia-goggles for earlier gens.

>> No.5125483
File: 159 KB, 1000x1000, no.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5125483

>>5125413

>> No.5125485

>>5125476
Because NPC's like you need 3D video game movies in order to enjoy gaming.
>>5125479
It isn't about going underground you fucking retard. A lot of those early 3D games defy logic entirely with their god awful controls. Look at launch games for N64 like SM64 and later on OOT and right off the bat Nintendo clearly knew better than Sony and Sega on how 3D games should be playing. Yeah no 3D game really plays like those games anymore but THAT is good examples of stepping stones to better 3D later on. Those developing those games actually put thought into their shit and didn't just put out a garbage product simply because lol its 3D just buy it fagit. As said earlier, it wasn't until actually competent developers came around to show how you do 3D that all developers started to finally get it.

>> No.5125486

>>5125470
5th gen really did suck. Some of the most awful controlling games in existence come from that gen. Be careful, though, you might hurt the feelings of millenials who grew up on those systems.

>> No.5125487

People were sick of sidescrollers that all played the same. We had enough of Ninja Gaiden run 'n jumps and wanted full immersive interactive experiences.

>> No.5125493

>>5125479
> You guys obviously have never developed anything
> you need people to play/use what you create for feedback
those anons are right.
> but to say it's "omg objectively worst" is your nostalgia-goggles for earlier gens
a lot of games in that gen were fucking awful and 100% forgettable. keep trying, you tremendous faggot.

>> No.5125495

Besides there are plenty of 2D games out there you just haven't played them.

>> No.5125496

>>5125486
millennials are clueless cancer. their opinions: ignored.

>> No.5125497

>>5125487
>and wanted full immersive interactive experiences

And this is why gaming is in the shitter.

>> No.5125502

>>5125497
Why play with toys when I could be a literal Demigod in a fully realized virtual world?

>> No.5125503
File: 46 KB, 640x464, rh23.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5125503

>>5125495
This, MAME and Saturn are littered with beautiful 2D games nobody played yet they chose to come shitpost here as if that could somehow change the reality of 5th gen.

>> No.5125508

>>5125486
>>5125496
Half of all millennials grew up with NES and SNES you normie-meme spouting retards.

>> No.5125516

>>5125497
>please sega, sell me the same game another 40 times for $50 a piece.

>> No.5125518

>>5125503
What game is this.

>> No.5125519

>>5125487
>People were sick of sidescrollers that all played the same.

This is also not true. Stop with the revisionist history. Pokemon sold like hotcakes and it felt like an NES game in 98.

>> No.5125523

>>5125508
I'm on the cusp of Gen X and Millenial and although my childhood was indeed NES/SNES/Genesis, the PSX was my adolescence/early adulthood. I imagine for a lot of millenials 5th gen has a ton of nostalgic value.

>> No.5125524

>>5125451
What games are you talking about specifically?

>> No.5125528

>>5125519
What's the point of this thread, why not just talk about 5th gen 2D games themselves instead of speculating what could have been

>> No.5125530

>>5125485
So you think Nintendo just magically knew what to do and didn't study what others did right and wrong before them?

>> No.5125539

>>5125528
>5th gen 2D games
What are your favorites? For me it's SOTN, Megaman X4, Alundra and Suikoden 1 & 2

>> No.5125547

>>5125530
There's just something speci𝘢l about nintendo f𝖺m, they just have more soul, y'know?

>> No.5125548
File: 3.57 MB, 1440x1080, Sega Rally Championship (USA)-170827-051045.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5125548

hell fucking no i love 5th gen 3D

>> No.5125552

>>5125539
Elevator Action Returns, Panzer Bandit, Game Tengoku, Cotton Boomerang, GLADIATOR / ROAD OF THE SWORD / SHEN JIAN,

>> No.5125556

Do you people really fuckin' think that game companies were just going to know how to make beautiful 3D games without making ugly shit first?

That's like expecting us to jump from 2600 graphics to mid-90s shit.

>> No.5125575

>>5125552
Unique choices! I've only heard of Elevator Action Returns, which I've played on MAME. That game is fucking awesome

>> No.5125898
File: 204 KB, 1263x720, lawnmowerman.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5125898

Unless you were alive at the time and a gamer in that era, it is hard to describe just how impressive the mid 90s 3d graphics really were.

The movie "lawnmower man" had a surprising amount of cultural impact as far as 3d visuals were concerned, even though the film itself was shit. We were told "some day soon, video games could look as good as lawnmower man did". It was indeed high praise over the next few years to hear people comment "Holy shit! This is like something out of lawnmower man!"

Those fuckhuge polygons in the early days made people stop in their tracks and do a double take. I remember vividly the crowd of normies who gathered around the first virtual fighter machine at the mall, and those same people would walk past street fighter alpha or dark stalkers without blinking. The jump to 3d was a much bigger generation leap than the jump from 8 to 16 bit, at least in terms of visual impact and mainstream appeal.

Looking back now at the crude polygons and low frame rates I can see why modern gamers are unimpressed. As cliched as it sounds you really had to be there.

>> No.5126568

>>5125413
No. Because they needed to experiement to learn what worked and what didn't. That awkward phase was necessary.

>> No.5126868

>>5125413
2D fighters should have stayed pixel based. The only reason to 3D is if you're doing something like Tekken. SFV's characters look like they're from the fucking Spongebob movie.

>> No.5127448
File: 2.65 MB, 2024x1094, Playstation-2D-Pt1.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5127448

>>5125413
>mostly 2D
This.

>> No.5127449
File: 2.61 MB, 2024x1094, Playstation-2D-Pt2.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5127449

>>5127448

>> No.5127473

>>5125413
>You guys ever think that the 5th gen should have stayed 2D or mostly 2D until 3D graphics advanced to the point of what we saw in the 6th generation?
Fuck no. What a retarded idea.

>> No.5127623

>>5125413
It goes hand in hand. Polys only improved when people started using them.

It's like saying we should've skipped the 8 bit era and gone right to 16.

>> No.5128925

>>5127449
Klonoa is not 2d if the majority of the of screen is rendering polygons

>> No.5128947

>>5125898
I was there and thought Virtua Fighter looked like shit. I was probably too young to really get why it was supposed to be impressive, but I had played stuff like Myst at the time and knew how good 3D COULD look. Virtua Fighter looked like ass in comparison.

>> No.5128950

>>5125548
people who use filters are the scum of the earth

>> No.5128976

>>5125413
no, these games exist for a reason and people stuck to their strong suits while others chased the hottest new trends

this is a part of history, the way things happened is set in stone

>> No.5129846

They should've used different styles for 3D.

>> No.5129887

>>5128950
people who upload 3.5mb PNGs are the scum of the earth

>> No.5129906

>>5125519
Yeah but being on a Gameboy made it okay

>> No.5129916

No, it shouldn't. But more 2D games and less 3D games to compromise would've been good. That's not how it work, 5th gen 3D needed to exist, they needed to understand how to standardize and apply game design to a 3D space. The jarring effect would've been much bigger if you had a game like Metal Gear Solid 3 or Shadow of the Colossus without all prior knowledge of controls schemes, camera settings, etc.
I really feel like people who bash 5th gen 3D can't be any older than 18.

>> No.5129923

>>5129916
no, 3d was a mistake!

>> No.5129929

>>5129923

You were a mistake.

>> No.5130021

>>5129916
MGS3 had poor controls and camera long after Konami should have figured things out. Its why they even released the Subsistence version of the game that improved the camera. So how do you excuse that when by the time MGS3 released it was already at least 10 years of 3D games being a thing? You can't and it all has to do with the developers developing the games. Notice how just about every TPS after RE4 is an over the shoulder shooter? Now why the hell might that be? Capcom had made numerous Resident Evil games prior to RE4 which developers all over also copied. Developers always copy from the best of the best.

The point is it was never about them needing to release hundreds of games until they finally got how these things worked. What actually happened is that everyone wanted to hurry and release their 3D games and consoles without putting too much thought into things that make games good. 3D absolutely showed and proved the vanity that is the industry and the bulk of the fanbase. Graphics hype back then was all about smoke and mirrors. It still is in fact due to all the bullshots and fake E3 trailers. They put great effort into brainwashing people that 3D was not just entirely better but even makes 2D gaming obsolete.

3D was rushed. That is why the 5th gen is the way it is. 5th gen should have mostly been another 2D gen. Many of those great games released for Saturn, PS1 and N64 would have just been developed a gen later and would have been better off for it with better graphics. 5th gen has aged the worst out of them all since NES release to now.

>> No.5132194

>>5125413
Megaman Legends and Fist of the North Star look good, you just need more games in that cartoony style.

>> No.5132258

>>5125548
>CRT shader
>but no NTSC shader
...you're doing it wrong.

>> No.5132264

>>5125440
EBIN COMEBACK BRO XD

>> No.5132308

>>5125413
>Most people that think older games aged poorly mostly say this in regards to the 5th gen of gaming when controls and graphics weren't fully fleshed out yet.
Issues with bad controls are a bit over-stated. Graphics were ugly but then so were early 2D console games.

There are plenty of early/middle 5th Gen 3D games that still have great gameplay. Twisted Metal and Bushido Blade are two off the top of my head. Bushido Blade even looks decent.

>> No.5132313

>>5125497
ignore that fag, what people wanted were 3D games that exploited the possibilities of 3D game engines (physics, complex environments, etc.)