/vr/ - Retro Games

autism - the thread

>>5118710
I play SNES games on a 4:3 CRT, as was intended.

>>5118710
>And every circle in every Nintendo game is 8:7

>>5118710
Imagine if your life choices had led to a point in which you made threads like this

guess what OP
pvms can do both with a button to switch between instantly. for snes games, I use both.
what do you think of that?

>>5118879
I think that's fucking retarded, just stick to one ratio

who cares

I play on a real CRT; not emulation.
4:3 on a CRT doesn't look like OP's pic.

So what the fuck was nintendo thinking by making the system 8:7 when every TV was 4:3? Either they intended it to be stretched to fit on a standard CRT or they're fucking retarded and made a system where 99.99% of people are going to be viewing it stretched for no discernible reason.

We have this thread every couple weeks/months.
The answer is always the same: real TVs never look like the pics OP try to pass as legit.

Why is the SNES the favorite console of autists?

>>5119196
Autists love video games period, not just the SNES.
My autistic step-son likes the Xbox and the Dreamcast. I dunno.

>>5119203
>my wife's son
ohnonononono

>>5119196
Because nintendo + jarpigs

>>5119210
>jarpigs
Isn't that a /vg/ meme?
>le all JRPGs are bad! I watch japanese superplayers and pretend I'm good at shmups!

>>5119210
>ohnonononono
well meme'd, kid.
But actually, you've been memed.

What in the hell did I just read?

>>5118714
This.

>>5118710
All CRT TVs were 4:3. The developers knew what the image would look like at the end.

>>5119316
From what I can tell, it seems like most of the 3rd parties understood this and designed their games so that when stretched out to a standard 4:3 screen, they'd look proper. But on the other hand, a lot of the nintendo first party games seem to have 8:7 as their intended aspect ratio wtih things like the round mario coins or the super metroid morph ball being oval when viewed on a 4:3 TV.

No idea why nintendo did this whereas other developers knew to have 4:3 as the final look

>>5119345
But the coins or morph ball doen't look like "oval" on my 4:3 CRT.
Maybe adjust your own emulator? Also if you're emulating, you're probably using an HD screen, right?

>>5119351
Yes they do. This is actual hardware on a properly calibrated CRT. The morphball is an oval in 4:3

>>5119389
That's supposed to be an oval?
My geometry classes were all a lie.

>>5118879
What button Is that? Underscan?

>>5119395
You might want to get your eyes checked

>>5119419
yeah but you have to configure it first in the service menu

The Genesis outputted in 4:3, so couldn't you just compare the Genesis versions of games with SNES versions to see which developers took aspect ratio into account?

>>5119424
oh wait you're right, yeah it's totally an oval

>>5119389
Now post a picture of Super Mario World on real hardware on a properly calibrated CRT that looks like OP's pic.

>>5119175
the real question is why the fuck did they make the PAL version 16:15. PAL is still 4:3, so there was no fucking reason to change the resolution, and they changed it in the wrong direction too.

>>5119437
I'm guessing that geometry class you mentioned was in elementary school? Did they allow you to use the glue and scissors or did someone else have to do it for you?

>>5119440
I don't agree with OP and obviously he's exaggerating it. But I'm just pointing out that it IS true that certain games are stretched when viewed on a 4:3 screen. No idea why nintendo did this. It's full retard.

It doesn't bother me and I'm not going to bother adjusting my service menu shit every time I play a super nintendo game, but the distortion is there.

>>5119437
Not sure if you're trolling or just straight-up retarded.

>>5119471
It's because PAL has more vertical lines of resolution. Rather than recreating games to make use of the extra resolution, most developers just squish the resolution and leave black space on the top/bottom. It's the same reason why many developers don't bother compensating for the 50hz/60hz difference leading to PAL games running 17% slower: laziness.

>>5119479
>>5119496
Unless you go around with a compass, trying to discern very subtle measurement differences, most people will think that's a circle, not an oval.

>>5119471
Middle one looks the best, left is too thin, right is too wide and too short vertically.

>>5119564
Draw a perfect circle in mspaint on a picture thats 8:7. Then reformat the picture to 4:3 by stretching it. The result is an oval as shown with the morphball.

>>5119471
Actual capture from actual SNES. The black borders are part of the video the SNES outputs; the visible area is not actually quite 4:3. Emulators' 4:3 options make the image slightly wider than what is accurate.

>>5118776
>Imagine if your life choices had led to a point in which you read threads like this to complain about such threads

>>5119479
>>5119496
Don't be retarded. As >>5119564 put it, most people will look at it and think "circle" (or better said "sphere" in the case of that picture) before they think "oh yeah, that's definitely meant to be an oval".

>>5119608
This is hardly what I would call oval.

>>5119619
That is an oval, I don't know what else to tell you.

>>5119615
You're switching tactics. The argument is whether or not the morphball is an oval or a circle, not whether or not someone who's not paying attention will notice the difference. If your argument is now that the difference between 8:7 and 4:3 is insignificant, then I agree, but to argue that the difference doesn't exist or that the morphball is a circle in 4:3 rather than 8:7 is disingenuous.

>>5119613
This is also true. Makes 240p test suite on a SNES useless for geometry/position adjustments.

Some games, like Chrono trigger, take into the account the distortion on CTR so their in-game sprites are squished so they look round when stretched on the monitor meaning if you play Chrono Trigger in 8:7 you're doing it wrong. However, some other games like Super Mario all-stars were not rezised with distortion in mind thus meaning 8:7 was the intended way to see it. It depends on the game but changes absolutely nothing on your gameplay whatsoever and all of you purist out there should side by default on the 4:3 side since that what everyone was playing with back in the days. 8:7 is exclusively an emulator thing.

>>5119619
>no sides
>not perfectly symmetrical
It's an oval, dipshit,.

>>5119627
Well, for starters I'm not the one who initation the whole circle/oval discussion. That aside, I wouldn't call that circle "oval", just like I wouldn't call it a perfect circle either.
>the difference between 8:7 and 4:3 is insignificant
This is what I believe. The reason I jumped into the conversation was because that sphere in particular doesn't look much oval.

>>5119653
You're arguing against a spook because the argument is not whether or not it matters. the argument is whether or not it's a circle. And it's not a circle, it's an oval.

>>5119662
Not him, but to be fair he said "This is hardly what I would call oval", he isn't saying it isn't, just that it isn't the prime example of an oval, and to the naked eye it's kind of ambiguous.

>>5118710
tfw being able to play SNES games stretched to 16:9 just fine and not even giving too much of a fuck

>tfw trying to argue with americans that an oval ball is retarded

>>5119820
Game's called football - hardly any touching of the so called ball by feet.

>>5119812
certain types of games look perfectly fine when stretched.

>>5119665
This, pretty much. It's weird that the other poster was so lambasted over the universally unambiguous "oval" when to most people it won't immediately jump out as one, and so all of those "go back to school kiddo" comments were mostly uncalled for.

Dumb thread

SNES Mini and Virtual Console are 4:3 too

>>5119838

>>5119856
>come into thread debating whether a circle should be a circle or an oval
>"I can't tell the difference hurrr"
>get shit on
>act surprised

>>5119909
both of those have the option to use 8:7 mode, I imagine the reason they default to 4:3 is for the same reason the SNES did originally, simply to fill the screen.

>>5119916
That wasn't really the debate, more like the difference in this specific oval we're talking about isn't staggering, and most people who aren't Geometry Video Game Experts would assume it's a circle at first glance.

>>5120223
Are we talking about the circle in >>5119389

>>5120247
Yes, according to geometry expert anon here, that's CLEARLY an oval, lol.

>>5118710
>And every circle in every Nintendo game is 8:7
>every circle in every Nintendo game isn't 8:7
wew lad

>>5119820
It’s Britain’s fault the word soccer exists at all. Don’t like shitty outcomes, don’t make shitty choices. That’s on you wrong way drivers.

ITT: nobody who understands how analog TV signals work.

>>5119820

>>5122452
analog TV has an absolute vertical resolution. you are free to choose what to do with the horizontal resolution, and Nintendo chose to be retarded.

>>5119203
>step son
this is bait right? don't tell me your standards are low enough to go for a chick who already had a kid

is there 8:7 TVs? is the NES Tv 8:7?

>>5119613
For arguments' sake, does anyone know of any emulator that would accurately output the game like this without any sort of widening?

>>5119613
Thank you for your effort, knowledge, and common sense, but these threads are just bait by anti-Nintento/anti-real hardware people. It doesn't matter to them.

>>5122776
Higan does if you enable aspect correction. It's possible in Snes9x, but you have to set Stretch:AspectRatioBaseWidth = 292 in snes9x.conf.

>>5122812
Thank you, good to know.

>>5122776
retroarch can be configured to use any aspect ratio. you can even set your own numbers if you want black bars for some reason.

>>5122828
Ah okay so it's quite widely supported even with the black bars, thanks.

>>5122759
Beyond cucks and redpills, beyond sex and games, there lies a more satisfying affection in human connection. I hope for your own sake you overcome these perception-limiting stereotypes.

>>5122776
Not sure if it's exactly what you want but Snes9x lets you play either 4:3 or 8:7, and even lets you resize the window arbitrarily if you turn off locked aspect ratio. If you resize the window with the aspect ratio and size set it'll use black bars. Pic related

>>5122847
Snes9x's 4:3 ratio is inaccurate by default. You have to edit snes9x.conf for it to work correctly.

If I remember right, because of different amounts of overscan in TVs of the time the effective safe area for gameplay was actually 256x224, even if the NES was 256x240, so devs had to be careful and not draw important stuff outside the safe area.

So I guess for the SNES they dropped the res to the 256x224 so they could forget about overscan issues and use the entire resolution all the time, it makes it easier for devs.

>>5119216
I.. I.. was just p-pretending to raise some cunt's retarded kid...

>>5119389
Now photograph it while looking at it straight, and not an an angle that distorts it lengthwise.

>>5122847
You need to "stretch image" for that to work. Otherwise it will use square pixel resize with integer, as selected on your output image processing tab.

Baka

>>5124396
Looks like neither on my end.

>>5118710
>every pixel ever is supposed to be square
>non-square pixels don't exist

>>5124396
It all depends on whether the developer was smart enough to compensate for the inherent stretch of the 8:7 internal image being expressed 4:3 externally. Square and Midway did this for games like Chrono Trigger and the Mortal Kombat series, but then we also see a lot of first party Nintendo titles not bothering to compensate for some reason.

>>5124492
In general you'll notice that games will take the wide pixels into account for large circles, but for small ones that are only a tile or two in diameter they won't bother since it's easier that way and less noticeable.

>>5124509
Any examples of a nintendo-developed game compensating for the stretch the same way Chrono Trigger does?
Also, I just don't understand why the SNES even did an internal aspect ratio of 8:7 in the first place. I believe something similar was also the case with the NES, but those are the only two consoles I know of where this issue occurs. I've never heard about any problems/debate regarding aspect ratio for the Genesis or TG16 or any other consoles during that time period.

>>5124518
Mega Drive is actually 10:7 for NTSC, although it is true 4:3 for PAL. PCEngine is capable of multiple resolutions, but the most common used is 16:15, same as PAL SNES.

I'd guess the reason is related to hardware, and how powers of 2 fit into the NTSC and PAL vertical resolution. NTSC has roughly 242 lines, PAL has 287, and due to overscan not all of those will be visible on all TVs. To get the most out of the hardware, Nintendo would want the vertical resolution to be divisible into a grid, and each tile in the grid would need its height to be a power of 2. For NTSC that is 7 vertical vertical tiles of 32(2^5) pixels each, totalling 224 pixels, PAL has 8 vertical tiles for 240 pixels total.

The horizontal resolution is not bound by the TV (not a hard limit, anyway), so Nintendo was free to choose any number. Again, to get the most out of the hardware, they would want a number divisible by a power of 2. 256 is 2^8, and this is quite a happy coincidence for Nintendo because 256x240 is 61,440 total pixels, which means that every pixel would be addressable within 16 bits (65,536). So the horizontal resolution would be a perfect power of 2, and it would use 94% of the available 16 bit address space, pretty efficient. However, this is, of course, 8:7, and the TV aspect ratio is 4:3. If it was displayed with square pixels, there would be black bars on the sides, and the average consumer wouldn't be interested in hearing the technical details of why the latest gaming system won't use his entire TV. So Nintendo took the easy option and just stretched it, and almost nobody noticed.

>>5124518
The Triforce on ALttP's title screen, for one.

There isn't really any "debate" to be had, it's just a matter of math. The pixel clock is what it is.
https://pineight.com/mw/index.php?title=Dot_clock_rates
Many consoles and arcade boards used the same pixel aspect ratio as the NES and SNES. The Genesis' pixels also aren't quite square; they're slightly narrower than they are tall. But as with the SNES, it was very common for developers to ignore that to make their lives easier.

>>5118710
I play SNES games the same way I play most other retro consoles; in 16:9, on my modern LCD monitor, with shaders in RetroArch. What are you gonna do about it, though? Other than shitpost while you sit there shaking with impotent rage.

>>5127340
yep, there's no right way to play games. just the way you want!

>>5127392
The funny part is that you thought posting that picture of what you think is poor image quality somehow made a point.

>>5127392
>PAL version
>NTSC color artifacts
Ah, just how I remember it.

>>5118710
>insert gameboy game into Gameboy Advance
>press L key
If you don't do this, your an idiot

>>5119825
the ball is 1foot long

>>5122962
>W-women are bad because they won't let me hump them :^(

>>5128224
On pokemon I did this only when walking to the left or right because it was faster. But then immediately had to switch back when walking up or down.

>>5128224
never had a gba, what this does?

>>5130739
It makes GBC and GB games square instead of stretched. I'm pretty sure that's what happens anways

>>5118710
Then explain Kirby looking squished when playing in 8:7.

First party Nintendo developers were fucking idiots who didn't take into account what would happen when making games in 8:7 would do on a 4:3 screen.
>>5128224
GB and GBC games make sense playing in a square since the original systems had a square screen.

>>5130739
>>5130771
L stretches, R makes them correct size (default)