/vr/ - Retro Games

>>5117204
those look like shit.

>>5117205
This, OP is a fag

They look extremely generic, Toriyama's designs are far better

>>5117204
Because the final designs were done by a different artist. How are notebook scribbles more “distinguished”?

>>5117216
>Toriyama
His art is the definition of generic.

>>5117204
Those are sick designs, but you can't really separate the final game from Toriyama's designs.

>>5117224
Quite the opposite, his style is easily recognizable

>>5117225
>generic youthful anime girl #4, generic anime girl with glasses #6
yeah, makes Toriyama's art look quite generic. retard.

>>5117204
This thread again? Anyway, I like that Ayla but the rest isn't great.

>>5117204
I like these designs! But it looks kinda shojo! I guess I'm biased to the cut imo trigger we all got!

>>5117224
>>5117230

Do you even know what generic means? Toriyama is the most recognisable character designer in history. He's the definition of not-generic

>>5117281
Yeah that's what I said. This thread is fucking retarded. Comparing Toriyama's unique look to these generic shojo drawings that could be in literally any manga.

All these wacky designs ultimately don't matter with sprites that are 32 pixels high.

Reminds me of 80s Masamune Shrow.

>That one anti-Toriyama poster at it again

Nobody thinks these generic chickenscratch designs look better except you, man. Give it up.

>>5117204
They're better but they're in no way more distinguished.

They're just run of the mill 90s anime style, but then run of the mill 90s anime style is better than everyone looks the exact same and everyone has mad eyes that are fucking stupid toriyama style

>>5117354
>thinks i'm anti-toriyama because i like a specific set of designs better
strawman

>>5117204
Because they got Toriyama to sign on. Toriyama essentially sold the Dragon Quest series just on his monster illustrations alone. Toriyama designs are how Japanese studios print money.

>>5117224
>Toriyama
>Generic
He has very little range when it comes to designing faces, but his style is anything but. When you see his work, you know it's Toriyama. The concept sketches in the OP looks like they could have been done by any run-of-the-mill '90s anime studio at the time.

Also hot take: Crono should've said fuck it to Lucca and Marle and got with Ayla instead

>>5117547
>hot take
>the normalfag chrono headcanon
LuccaxChrono

>>5117547
Isn't Ayla Chrono's ancestor?

>>5117556
That makes it better

>>5117556
>>5117558
Reminder that /vr/ is the most oldfagheavy board

>>5117204
I would've like to see how Chrono Trigger looked with these designs.

>>5117204
The only design I prefer here is Lucca and she's already best girl in the game.

>>5117556
Ayla is actually Marle's distant ancestor, I think

>>5118269
Yeah that's correct.

>>5117224
What the fuck are you talking about? Toriyama's artstyle is one of the most recognizable to come out of Japan, next to Tezuka and Araki

>>5117281
>>5117226
Apart from both of you being correct about his distinct style, Toriyama's character designs are also just more distinctive even looking beyond the style.

When people think of Marle, do they think of her Toriyama eyes? No. They think of the big white pants, blond ponytail, and spunky attitude (Toriyama's faces are varied and expressive whether you like the style or not) .

With Lucca it's the helmet-glasses combination with pink hair and army green/orange color theme. It's nerdy in a unique way. OP is cookie-cutter anime schoolgirl nerd except for the messy hair, which is ugly and off-putting.

Crono is literally a generic blank slate mute protagonist and yet Toriyama manages to give him a distinct look that everyone recognizes by making his hair red and extra-spiky. And Toriyama's Crono has a confident, energetic expression while OP's Crono just looks smug.

Magus has a pointy chin, pointy ears and long flowing white hair that comes to a pointy widow's peak that once again gives a distinctive look that isn't just "generic anime demon king."

>>5119115
Pretty much all of this. Every character Toriyama draws just ooze expression and you can get a sense of their personality just by looking at them. Good post.

>>5119150
OP's post is interesting in the way you can see Toriyama's tweaks on the Kato's original concepts, especially for a character like Lucca. The original concept wasn't BAD. It's an inventor girl, she wears generic clothes suitable for academia, has big glasses and her hair is frumpy and a little unkempt as if she doesn't pay much attention to her appearance. Toriyama's use of the helmet accomplishes the same idea without such a distinctly negative character trait (neglecting appearance). Lucca's hair is actually cute and practical but covered up by the work helmet.

This is exactly what most good creative collaborations look like. It's the similar for musicians and actors. Really good actors will improve a writer's concept with unique detail and flourishes.

>>5117204
those look rather like generic shoujo characters compared to Toriyama's final designs for them.

even if you dislike how the characters look, you couldn't find a better artist to design memorable monsters for a video game. that's his real schtick that's often overlooked by most people looking into his designs

>>5117204
They look really meh. I don't really like Toriyama's works but that's really bad compared to the final ones we got.

>>5117547
Lucca > Marle > Ayla

Those look pretty mediocre. Robo is a Hygogg ripoff

Those look horrible. Jesus, I'm glad they got Toriyama to do the artwork instead.

>cool and energetic cast
>replace it with a bunch of whiny dragon ball reject faggots

>>5119742
>Generic Shoujo crap is better than Toriyama's iconic style
Wew lad

>>5118269
Given that they lived in 65 million BC, she is probably a common ancestor to nearly every single human alive.

>>5119742
that looks terrible.

>>5119742
4chan will always defend worst designs just to be contrarians, here's your (you)

>>5119786
One of the possible routes has Cloud passing out with a bunch of buff gentleman in a gay sauna but clearly they were just helping you get up.

Akira Toriyama doesn't have any wasted movements. Most of a character's story is said in the silhouette and costume design; they're almost instantly recognizable. I'll give it to you, his regular faces aren't great, mainly because his style has reduced line complexity. So to conform with his own established style, he's stuck with only so many shapes he can include without breaking convention.

>>5117204
These look awesome!

>>5119824
>Most of a character's story is said in the silhouette and costume design; they're almost instantly recognizable
I never thought of it before, but this fact is exploited in Chrono Trigger during a dramatic scene where there's an eclipse and Crono's sprite appears as a white silhouette against the darkness and descends to the ground with just 2 alternating frames of animation.

bump

>>5117204
So I'm guessing the guy who drew these showed them and got fired, then they hired Toriyama?

>>5117204
They invited a celebrity artist to do a the art and weren't going to waste all that celeb affiliation bonus hype.

>>5122531
Masato Kato is the director himself.

>>5117204
>character design is an iterative process

ALERT THE MEDIA

Iteration goes double for 8/16-bit era games since the characters also have to read well in sprite form.

>>5117204
Regardless of all other opinions, they're over-detailed. Pic related, here's me downsizing these pictures to how they would actually looked when sized like jrpg sprites.

Can you see anything in this mess? Of course you fucking don't. That's why simple, cartoony sprites work so much better as a basis for low-res sprites.

>>5123354
And so you won't call me unfair - here is the same test when applied to Toriyama's design. Much simpler, much cleaner, but as a result they're readable even when downscaled.

>>5123354
OP is retarded but holy shit you're even dumber.

>>5123354
>>5123357
thats weird anon you can recognize the faces in the tops portraits better than toriyamas shite.

>>5123354
Concept art never look like the sprites anyway.

>mfw my mom and cat both look like goku

>>5123373
>you can recognize the faces in the tops portraits better
Because they're larger you assmunching retard.

>>5123381
Except... in Chrono Trigger... they kinda do. That's my point, that Toriyama actually knew what he was doing, and sprite artist could literally 1:1 translate his designs into sprites, instead of having to basically invent an entirely new look out of the whole cloth.

>>5123362
I'm an artist, retard. Please, fucking explain me what is the point of adding a shitton of unnecessary detail to your artwork that won't actually be visible in-game?

There is no point, it's a waste of everybody's time.

>>5123391
Because it's concept art, you dumbass. They haven't decided what's going to be shown in-game at that point. With your faggotry, they'll have to go back to the drawing board every time they need to change something. With proper concept art everything they might need is already there.

Those rough, sloppy sketches up there obviously didn't take much time, either.

>>5123414
>They haven't decided what's going to be shown in-game at that point.
Except they ALREADY KNOW because it's a fucking jRPG. They already KNOW that the sprites won't be any bigger than 32x64. God, you're really fucking dumb, are you.
> they'll have to go back to the drawing board every time they need to change something.
THEY ALREADY DO! With this moronic way of doing art, you basically need TWO different character designs - one 'fullsize' realistic character design, and a COMPLETELY SEPARATE simplified design for the sprites. They need to effectively design TWO characters instead of one!

In Toriyama fashion, all you need is ONE design for both of them, the only thing that really changes between the concept art and sprites are simplified faces on the sprites (and those are there for the mugshots). 100% of what you see in concept art ends up in game. No effort is WASTED.

>>5123462
Calm down.

>>5123462
>>5123414
>>5123391
>Because it's concept art
It's not even just "concept art" it's a fucking "idea sketch." The guy who drew this sketch was involved with the story creation and writing. This art was Kato picking up a fucking pencil and doing "here's how I envision these characters in this story we're working on."

>>5123462
>They already KNOW that the sprites won't be any bigger than 32x64.
So you've never played jRPGs before.

>THEY ALREADY DO!
Only if the project involves you. Of course they need to design full size and sprite versions, you moron. Even if the game never uses bigger versions (lots of games do), what do you think they're going to put in promo art and ads? You expect them to use game sprite art for absolutely everything. What a joke.

>100% of what you see in concept art ends up in game. No effort is WASTED.
Your own example proved otherwise. They'll still need to make changes, and they still need to make all the animations. Your braindead cut twice, measure once approach requires them to put more total effort in just so one guy can be lazy and make everyone else do his work for him.

>>5119786
>4chan will always defend worst designs just to be contrarians

Explains all the Toriyama sameface wank ITT

>>5123882
>t. too dumb to understand variations on an archetype.

>>5123906
>rehash the same shit over and over
>call it "variations on an archetype"
>retards eat your shit straight up

I can certainly tell you that I wouldn't have picked up Chrono Trigger if Toriyama didn't do the artwork

>>5117204
>Inventor Girl
Oh fuck, it's Kenji

>>5123925
The reason you are a failed artist, envious of Toriyama's success, is that you don't understand why his art is actually good. Rather than accept this in a healthy way, your ego invents a reality where you're the under-appreciated genius and everyone who likes that sameface hack Toriyama is stupid.

Seeing legitimate praise shatters the fragile delusion. The butt-blasted sufferers of narcissistic injury predictably lash out, in your case by posting a crudely assembled image that actually undermines the point you imagine yourself to have made.

>>5124010
>a glimpse into the mind of a mentally ill Toriyama fanboy

>Game you can rename your party members
>Majority of the cast use pseudonyms and the defaults in many cases describe their archetype/role.
Chrono Trigger is scary levels of deep.

>>5123882
Toriyama sameface is pretty cool how he does it though. Usually the guys who look the same in different works are the same "kind" of character. Easy visual shorthand. Plus if you do less things, you can get better at the specifics.

>>5122531
Why should they fire him?

>>5124040
still seething. I'm not even a fan of Toriyama I just recognize talent when I see it.

Have you faggots never seen anime? Every artist has 2-3 faces that they repeat for every character.

Ayla best girl. The female designs like Android 18 are the best many faps. I salute you toriyama.

>>5117224
I agree with you but you're going to get eviscerated by the 56%ers that grew up watching Dragon Ball.

holy fuck ayla is cute