/vr/ - Retro Games

because doom is literally babies first FPS, one of the most played games, can run on anything and the recent brutal doom attracted loads of faggots

>>5096325
>brutal doom
One of the most overrated mods in existence. Unbalanced, gratuitous shit.

That said, DOOM 2 with a good WAD is probably the greatest FPS of all time.

>>5096321
Because userlevels and deathmatch.

>>5096321
Why are you comparing apples to oranges?

BASED /v/ and /vr/ exposed

Muh complexity

Muh obscurity

>>5096321
Muh speed and compatibility. UW ran like ass back in the day even with the best PC you can buy. That was before 3D GPUs were a thang. DOOM came later with a much faster (fake)3D renderer , but with less effects of cose.But it ran on almost anything VGA as long as you're willing to lower the res.

Ultima Underworld is like classical music compared to Doom

Doom is genre fiction. Ultima underworld is literature

Doom is for primitive people.Ultima underworld for sophisticated people.

Doom is mcdonals. Ultima Underworld is a five star meal.

Doom is GDI. UU is Brotherhood of Nod

>>5096376
You are admitting that im right

Underworld a shit
OP is a raging homo

>>5096390
See
>>5096364
>>5096372
>>5096368
>>5096375

>>5096321
Which youtube celebrities do you watch? I want to be as experienced in obscure hidden gems as you

>>5096475
>calling Ultima an obscure hidden gem in order to diminish it
get out

No one refuted this>>5096394

>>5096321
>Why do casuals with no interest in particularly deep or complex experiences not gravitate toward this especially deep and complex game?

Gee, OP, I wonder why.

>>5096321
Because nobody played Ultima except kissless virgins.

>>5096493
Complex=/=deep

LGSfags Seething

>>5096321
ikr? i keep telling people that Ultima sucks balls compared to Dark Forces but the casuals keep clinging on to that trendy Ultima garbage.

Elitistfags seething

>>5096321
Because OP, I lost my virginity a while ago, and I feel as if I would’ve never done so had I played this shitty game

>better soundtrack
>modding community
>multiplayer
>microsoft showcased it
y-yeah i bet it was just those dumb normalfags not seeing the greatness..!!

Because 99% of RPGs are a bunch of horseshit faggotry for basedboy nerds, FPS games are the genre of choice for real men.

Because 99% of RPGs are a bunch of horseshit faggotry for basedboy nerds who will never lose their virginity in a way that counts, FPS games are unironically the genre of choice for real men.

baaaasedboy*
That fucking filter apparently even changes it to "basedboy" if you use a zero. Fuck you idiot whoever makes it do that, I didn't write that, like what the absolute shit are you doing.

S-O-Y-B-O-Y.

>>5096535
>HAHAHA everything I don't like is for permavirgins/s0iboys

>>5096541
....god I don't believe it. Even if you put in onions it changes it.

>>5096357
>Muh speed and compatibility. UW ran like ass back in the day even with the best PC you can buy.
Even playing it now it chugs a bit -- not for performance reasons just because it's a slower-paced game. Doom was designed to be as fast and action-packed as possible from the get-go so it makes sense that it would be more immediately impressive.

And tons of people cared about Ultima back in the day. UO was huge.

>>5096515
>doom was downloaded more times than windows 95
>forced to add compatability because win95 couldnt run doom

>>5096357
Fuck off tripfaggot retard.

>>5096321
>comparing ultima to doom when ultima doom already exists

doom was an actual shooter and not some faggot sword shit

>>5096321
RPGs are for shitters with no reflexes.

>>5096601
Shit game

>>5096321
Very simple: Doom was shareware, Ultima Underworld was not. Folks could pick up a cheap floppy with the first few levels of Doom for free, and they had to pay for the second and third episodes.

You young'uns have no idea this was a thing, but back in the day, bookstores and mall kiosks would offer shareware disks for like $5 a piece. You'd flip through boxes of floppies just like you'd look through a big box of Magic cards or baseball cards. There was all manner of stuff in those shareware disks, but Wolf 3D was the first real major hit through those disks. Some of the other Apogee stuff was doing well on floppies as well, but when Doom it, it went from being a kiosk in a mall with a buncha floppies, to a kiosk in a mall with a computer up, running Doom. The game was so in your face and violent (That was a big big thing at the time: realistic violence was really cool in games. Odd I know, but computers were finally able to render a bloody corpse well enough to shock people). It really drew people in, and it had a great little demo that could be played unattended.

The shareware distribution method was what pushed Doom over the top.

>>5096552

UO was a cool game. I remember the first time having to actually get a graphics card as a teenager. It was a Riva TNT2 to play EverQuest. Never really looked back.

>>5096321
Interesting to see some people comparing PC 3D games that where rather late to the party. Proto 3D games, even Proto FPS are much older than Doom, heck even open world (or let's say sandbox) games with 3D graphics came out years before these two games.

Not only could you play 3D games in the 80s on home computers, the earliest video games usually chose a (wire frame) 3D perspective, since this was a lot easier to do when most of the screens still were based around vector monitors and you had a limit how many lines you could draw on them.

>this thread
What the fuck happened to /vr/? Did /v/ invade today or something?

>>5096709
>WTF WHY ISNT /vr/ A HIVEMIND?? PRAISE DOOM OR ELSE?
Yikes...

>>5096321
Because Doom runs, looks and plays way better. Also it had a much more original setting for the time.

whats the point of this thread
they are not even going for the same thing, its like comparing Deus Ex with Unreal

>>5096321
Doom while technically less impressive in some ways was a lot more pick up and play. It actually ran at a playable speed, I know most of you bitches didn’t play it back in the day but even if you had a computer UU could run on it ran like hot ass. Doom had way better spritework, texture variety and filled the whole screen. It was also much faster paced so this total package was far more impressive than ultimate as a result even if it’s technically inferior. It looked much better. The fact that it was shareware really pushed it over the edge too

>>5096828
Unreal is better than deus ex

>>5096828
Because this is the “popular thing bad, more obscure thing good” episode of /vr/

>>5096325
>>5096326
I never really got into doom back in the day, i mean i had the shareware copy but never really played much. but just recently i decided to give it another shot and i must say, some of the doom 2 wads are fucking fantastic! also ultima underworld is a great game, but not as good as doom or daggerfall!

>>5096872
>>5096861
>>5096836
>>5096807
>>5096659
>>5096535
>>5096625
>>5096515
>>5096494
>>5096390
The masses are seething when their tastes are questioned.

>>5096321

Probably the closest answer that makes sense (to me) is that DOOM was moddable. People like modding their games and, back then, it was fairly easy to hack together a DOOM level. Heck, even I made DOOM levels back in the day.

Otherwise, I'm 100% in camp Ultima Underworld. It had a great story. I can even remember the feling I had playing UU2 when you played in that level of the really slow moving creatures and realized that they had thrown away a rune (my memory is shaky on the specifics) and you realize that, even though they threw it out a long time ago, it's right at the edge of the conveyor belt.

It just goes to show that action is nice but story stays with you far longer.

>>5096321
You're comparing two different things. Ultima Underworld is the progenitor for Elder Scrolls games, Doom is the first game in it's genre to get the FPS right.

Wolfenstein 3D comes out, but it's kinda shit, so Doom gets made to fix all the problems. Ultima Underworld comes out and it's kinda shit, so Elder Scrolls makes 3 games before making that style not shit...or I guess System Shock would probably be better.

>>5096321
>they're the same genres because they're both in 1st person
For someone so nuanced and intellectual, you sure do seem to be reductionist and fucking retarded.

>>5097087
>reducing the reductionist op to ''they're the same because both are 1st person''
oh the irony

>>5098245
>what is an implication
>what is subtext
You seem autistic. Also, the OP is one sentence long, it can't be reduced much more than it already is. Now don't reply to me again until you've had some serious therapy.

>>5098383
>OP thinks of himself as an intellectual because he judges some games as nuanced
Who was the reductionist again? Not even disagreeing with your original statement, it just seems thoughtless to accuse OP of something you commit yourself in your response.

>>5098383
also inb4 le reductionist response, but i really cannot see why you would think that he thinks himself as intellectual beyond him using words like nuanced and advanced to describe a game experience?

>>5096321
Becayse the 90s were about being edgy as fuck

Admit you are objectively wrong op

Blue collar people in their 40's played doom, everyone played doom. It didn't just nail FPS by being early, it was the perfect storm of action, pacing, casualness, shareware, moddability, coolness (that banging soundtrack) and high performance FPS with a bunch of stuff on the screen, yet still ran decently. It just drew everyone in.

>>5096861
lmao, I'm honestly kinda getting tired of this shtick

>>5096321
Doom is an easy to play FPS. You don't need to push F1-F6 for switching between using a sword, using a key, talking to people and looking at shit. Doom had an addictive multiplayer that laid waste to companies bandwith because it was so good.

Not that Ultima is bad, the RPG dungeon crawler experience is just completely different from a simple FPS.

>>5096321
>why do people like this popular fps more than this popular crpg?

That's like asking why more people like Call of Duty than Skyrim

>>5096321
>play doom
>have lots of fun
>play ultima online
>have sort of fun
there you go

>>5096321
I fawned over both at the time. DOOM had far simpler controls, far simpler objectives, plus multiplayer (nostalgia: lugging your machine over to someone's house). One big issue is that Underworld was a much earlier game (come out before Wolfenstein 3D) and was quite a pioneer in first person games. The controls for smooth-scrolling first person games hadn't been streamlined yet through the years of "playtesting" that followed. A lot of people felt the controls were clunky, and I agree there was a small learning curve.

Agreed with most of the sentiment of this thread, that you're comparing apples and oranges, but if your intention was not a comparison but rather a complaint that Underworld didn't and still hasn't gotten the love that it deserves, I agree. It's probably my all-time favorite and I play through it once a year. The only thing that could make it more perfect is a modern control scheme.

There is a project called Ultima Underworld Exporter which is an attempt at porting it over to modern machines with modern controls and video resolutions. It's okay.

>>5096341
they're both fruits, what am I going to compare an apple with if it can't be oranges? a fucking screwdriver?
shut your bitch ass up fool

>>5096321
are there any ultima type games made on the doom engine?

Ultima fans seething

>>5099343
I absolutely despise esl posters.

>>5098797
Seriously, the only thing they have in common is they’re in first person.

Might as well compare System Shock to Battle Zone while you’re at it.

Ultima Underworld is unironically the most influential video game in gaming history, Doom is a nice game but UU shits all over it, even if youre comparing an RPG to an FPS

>>5098797
That's all 4chan is nowadays unfortunately, a site for obnoxious hipsters to jerk off about how great they are and how everyone else is a just another NPC

>>5099353
I own Ultima IX: Dragon Edition.

>>5100823
Doom is influential as fuck too

>>5100861
Doom is influenced by UU
let's not forget about the ULTIMA series as a whole, which influenced all open world games, all roleplaying games, all first person shooters
Ultima games have been going since 1980
it just doesn't compare

Doom is still the better game

>>5100867
kek it's definetly not

>>5100868
Muh obscurity
Muh complexity

>>5100871
nice buzzwords retard

>>5100876
Keep crying ultima fan

>>5100880
wtf is this some sort of doom vs ultima fans rivalry
you do realize that if UU never existed you would never have Doom
fps games are for fucking brainlets anyway, and you're a prime example of that,my retarded friend

>>5096628
and this Ultima shit was any better? maybe this answers why neither are as popular as doom even if they're more "interesting"

sci fi > fantasy also

>>5100892
holy fuck youre dumb, it's probably because half of the ultima games were released pre-1990, and the last good Ultima game came out in 1993
really makes one think

>>5100883
Rpg are for casuals

>>5100841
don't forget you being here to bitch about it

>>5096581

ahh yes, bill gates, the original school shooter

>>5096326
agreed brutal doom is like doom made to play like call of duty

>>5100897
t. some retarded fps babby that spends hours coming up with zoomer-tier shitposts

>>5100909
Quake 3 is better than any Rpg

>>5100910
this is the last (You) get, fps brainlet

>>5100912
Rpgshitter

>>5096321
Doom is playable, even today. That Ultima shit is unplayable.

>>5096372
This is the only answer

Just like today. No good rpgs are being made but patricians still play 90s classics while plebs play DOOM

>>5100912
Blow it out your ass, Rpgay

Doom was the Fortnite of its time.

>>5101443
You shut your faggot mouth

>>5100907
And even then, there are WADs that do "modern FPS Doom" better, like some of Doomzone's classes.

>>5101438
I was being ironic rpg autist

Because Doom is fun and easy and get into.

Ultima Underworld is a fantastic game but CRPGs are fucking clunky and require a high level of tolerance to go through all the bullshit.

>>5096601
That's like resident evil DOOM, without the bullshit tank controls.

>>5096828
>>5096851
Nani the fug. Desu Ex was literally modified Unreal.

>>5096704
that draw distance

>>5096321
They're different kinds of games. They're not the same thing just because they're both first person.

>>5101443
>>5101468
but this is right.
fortnite would not be the current fad if kiddies couldnt get it for free.
also feeling elitist over a new game that is about running around shooting other players.
did you play doom on a lan?

>>5101725
in ten years time the games you saw as impressive will be making people just as ill

>>5101885
>>Hardcore fps :Quake
>>Kiddie shit: the rest fps games

>>5096974
>the closest answer that makes sense (to me) is that DOOM was moddable
Moddability is why Doom has had such great staying power, but for normies, a lot of people didn't know shit about that.

Aside from being widely seen and available due to Shareware, as mentioned, Doom is a game that's just much faster and which you can immediately pick up and play, the learning curve for just basic play is very gentle.
Meanwhile, Ultima Underworld is something you need to invest time in and which doesn't have the straightforward progression that Doom has, you can reach all kinds of places which you can't immediately pass for one reason or another, and would have to come back to much later after doing a certain thing or getting a certain ability.
In Doom, that doesn't happen, there's locked doors and blockades, but the levels will on average take like 20 minutes at the most (much less if you don't care a lot about exploring), a key or solution for passing is never distant, and there's lost of action on the way.

If you put up a demo kiosk with one PC playing UU, and another playing Doom, and most people will not spend a lot of time with either (maybe 15 minutes, assuming there's no line), it'd be hard to really fully enjoy playing UU, because you'd be jumping into someone else's discarded session, and you wouldn't have the time to fully enjoy it, while for Doom, you have a good chance of playing an entire level if nobody else is around and wants to try.
So Doom is something that's simple (at least for the base game), and fast, and you can easily pick it up and just play some and you'll enjoy it, but UU requires a time investment on your part, and isn't at all a fast paced action game, in fact being rather slow.
In short, Doom was just way better at advertising and selling itself, for really a lot of reasons, in part because it's much more exciting.

Also, OP is a fucking nerd.

>>5099345
Strife, sort of.

It's cool, but also kind of weird, with a lot of good parts, and some shitty parts.
It's also kind of short, and the ending feels like it comes kind of early.
Also being very hardcoded, making your own content for it is actually really bothersome and clunky, so despite being on the Doom engine, the amount of levels and mods available for Strife is a barren wasteland with like one tumbleweed. Hexen and Heretic are Doom tier in comparison.
So you hope either you aren't too attached to it and don't mind letting go once it's over, or you'll feel kind of robbed.

It has some stupidly pretty and well animated spritework (amongst some passable pre-rendered stuff), which wasn't enough to let it survive sandwiched between Duke Nukem 3D and Quake.

>>5096321
Because they're completely different genres that happen to share the same perspective, pretentious faggot

>>5102632
most of this thread is shit but thanks for posting this, I forgot I even owned it. I believe it runs pretty easily in GZdoom but there's also a Steam version now that supports modern resolutions and all that fun stuff.

>>5096321
>Ultima Underworld
Because despite the technical hoo hah it's clunky, the combat is ass and the class system is plain broken?

>>5096321
I am surprised Doom gets more recognition than Duke 3D or Blood despite being far better games.

>>5101889
like comparing fortnite to crysis

>>5096321
ultima doom when?

>>5102693
Thanks. I love talking about games I love and hearing others talk about what they love in games.

>>5103290
In my personal opinion, Duke Nukem 3D is second only to Doom as far as FPS goes. Blood is also definitely up there.
Doom I think is easier to regard because the ease of modding it gave it a very strong shelf life.
Initially being made with interchangeable .wads in mind, and just being very simple, hacks like DeHacked, and then the release of the source code, basically letting people do almost anything they wanted with the engine, has given it extremely long life as a classic game, because you have a good game fundamentally, but the user made content is sometimes many, many times better than the original levels.

Duke 3D is an excellent game, a bit rough around the edges, but extremely fun, has a lot of personality, and the action is superb. It was also made with the idea of users making mods, because that's one of the things that they saw made Doom big (along with shareware), and while Duke 3D can do far more than Doom's original .exe could ever hope to, it's not nearly as simple to make content for.
Making levels for Doom is really easy, linedefs, tags and sectors, things are simple. Making levels for the Build engine is much more time consuming and complex.

A modding community survives for the Build games, because devs enabled it and they are good games that people remember and go back to with fondness, but the higher threshold for making content means it's not nearly as big. Compare to Doom, which sees a dozen hundred mods/levels annually, 25 years later, Duke doesn't see even a fourth of that, in spite of being almost as good, better in some people's opinion.

>Fast paced heavy metal demon slaying romp rife with shotguns and explosions and demons dying with gratuitous gore

VS

>Slow and methodically paced atmospheric adventure rpg dungeon crawl

First person perspective does not mean these games are remotely comparable

>>5096321
>Majority of people like action games more than RPG
>why there are more people singing praises to an action game than to an RPG game?
gee I wonder

>>5096321
Ultima is gay nerd shit that's why. Now give me your lunch money before you get a noogie.

First person shooter games like Doom are vastly inferior to shmups due to the impulse driven savescum mechanic, but games like Doom are vastly superior to manchild genres like RPGs where you spend 50 hours doing menial tasks as a gay elf for other gay elves. The only genre that WRPG beats is the typical JRPG, but that’s saying nothing.

>>5104682
>impulse driven savescum mechanic
So what you're saying is that you have weak willpower and couldn't play Doom without saving constantly?

>>5104689
I didn’t, but many did and still do all these years later. You’d think with the advent of so many more advanced shooter games that people would be conditioned to blow through a game like Doom, but no.

>>5096321

Because... ACCESSIBLE. First person shooters might be the most accessible genre of games. Coupled with trendy consoles and the low IQ audience it generates SHITLOADS of money.

>>5104692
Yeah, but savescumming is literally a matter of abusing a feature the devs gave you for your convenience.
If someone is savescumming, it's not a failing on the game itself, it's always a failing on the player.

>>5096492
That's because there are no arguments to refute, they're all try-hard analogies.

>>5096321
I don't know, never thought of Doom as a particularly good game even in its genre, always considered both Quake and Blood to be far superior games. UU is a masterpiece though, only games in its genre I think could compete with it are System Shock and Daggerfall.

>>5102632
Highly weird but extremely underrated game, it's sort of like 2.5D Arx Fatalis

>>5096321
one word
Shareware, doom had a larger install base than windows 95 remember

No one cant disprove it>>5102171

>>5102171
100% true. I haven't played QC, but every other Quake game is a masterpiece.

>>5105483
Based

>>5100883
>>5100863
>>5100823
>”wItHoUt UlTImA uNdErWoRlD dOoM wOuLdNt eXiSt
>Muh influence
Listen, we get it, John Carmack saw a demo of Ultima Underworkd and it gave him some inspiration to make hovertank, catacombs, wolf 3d and doom. Sure, cool. That doesn’t solely mean it’s more influential than Doom. Doom is arguably the game that set the standard for FPS games, the hottest genre in gaming now, to a point where all FPS games were called Doom Clones. It made the biggest company on earth get on its knees and submit to its dominance to a point that the richest man on earth superimposed himself into the game just to promote his own operating system. It made Gabe Newell rethink his life and lead him to create Valve, eventually paving the way for Steam, the go to platform for PC gaming. It had an impact on PC gaming in general, rocketing it to new heights and arguably being one of the key influences on the creation of DirectX etc.

It helped solidify modding and total conversions into the gaming sphere, helped define death match, was a contributor to the creation of the ESRB and was a huge pop culture talking piece for the 90s from columbine to Friends. Ultima Underworld is a beast sure, but it definitely didn’t impact the whole of gaming, and mainstreams view of gaming, like Doom did.

It’s like saying because Driver influenced GTA, that it somehow has more impact than GTA. Yeah, it helped pave the way, but it’s not the game that rocked the industry like GTA.

>>5096321

Doom runs better on lower end hardware, and the shareware model meant that it was widely available pretty much anywhere, from the internet to every shitball "500 games in one" CD-ROM shareware compilation from no-name companies on store shelves.

Ultima Underworld was the Crysis of its time. It was significantly more complex, but it required a considerably beefier system to get anything remotely close to a playable speed.