/vr/ - Retro Games

>>5082926
What the fuck are you talking about?

>>5082926
Because organic, non-geometric shapes tend to bother autists?

>>5082926
Because underage summer need some silly contrived idea to shitpost?

>>5082943
> thread isn't about CRTs or "recent hauls" or a Doom General
ReeeeEEEEEEEeeeeEEEEeEEeeEeEeeEEEE

Why can OP only orgasm when he's eating the ass of a man in a dog suit?

dk has terrible level design

>>5082956
Get out of my jungle

>>5082956

DKC1 is arguable, but DKC2 is an A+ student of Nintendo's level design.

>introduce a level concept
>create progressively difficult variations of that same concept
>concepts from earlier levels will sometimes be revisited in later levels in a more difficult form (Mainbrace Mayhem vs Slime Climb, Target Terror vs. Haunted Hall, Krow's Nest vs. Kreepy Krow)
>people who want something harder can go for the DK Coins or bonus barrels.

>>5082956

DKC1 is arguable, but DKC2 is an A+ student of Nintendo's level design.

>introduce a level concept
>create progressively difficult variations of that same concept throughout the level
>concepts from earlier levels will sometimes be revisited in later levels in a more difficult form (Mainbrace Mayhem vs Slime Climb, Target Terror vs. Haunted Hall, Krow's Nest vs. Kreepy Krow)
>people who want something harder can go for the DK Coins or bonus barrels.

>>5082980
I thought DKC1 was an above average platformer and then DKC2 fucked it up. I didn't even complete it because the level design was so boring and even the soundtrack sucks in comparison to the first game

Man I'm playing DKC for the first time and this game sure is making a monkey out of me.

How the fuck was a child supposed to make it past Gorilla Glacier?

>>5083018
This.

>>5083023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA6vNU7q-fI
OH MAN SUCH A HARD GAME HOW DID THE KIDS MANAGE
kill yourself

>>5082926
Because collision boundaries take a longer time to br 'felt' and even after significant time, failures still feel unfair due to lack of concrete definition of boundaries.

>>5082980
You just described my biggest problem with it. It's formulaic, nothing really stood out or surprised me.

>>5083026
>just keep grinding level one for more lives

Jarpig mechanics in a platformer. Yikes and oofpilled.

>>5083034
If you don't like farming you could just play better and not die.

>>5083034
Also that's 15 lives in less than 2 minutes, hardly a "grind"

>>5082926
Because COLLISION is still based around a tile grid regardless of what the graphics look like. Meaning that it's borderline impossible to judge jumps precisely.

As a result, all these 'organic looking' platformers are either piss easy (to compensate for lack of precise platforming) or unfair and frustrating.

>>5083037
Fast grind is still a grind, moron.

>>5083037
>>5083284
Like... if the lives don't matter, why are they even included? Just give player infinite continues. It's padding, plain and simple.

DKC are pretty good games, but they are still very flawed in some respects.

>>5083283
/thread

>>5082926

I wonder how they pulled it off. I'm not a game dev, but my first instinct would be to treat the GBA like a weaker Saturn and use the sprites as quads, as both systems have similar rotation and scale capabilities. But it's hard to tell whether the games are using quads or tris.

>>5083283
>>5083512
Don't thread your own comment, autist. Don't post a picture reply saying it wasn't you by editing the (you), we could see the poster count stay the same.

Your image is shit and you should feel bad. Mario is in no way that tight, and DK is not that loose. Fucking aspergers 4chan users on the rise clearly.

>>5083552
> I like DKC because I want to fuck Candy lmao

Why /vr/ hates DK now?

>>5083580
Not an argument.

>>5083598
SEETHING

>>5083603
OBSSESED

>>5083607
confirmed for not actually paying attention to poster count.

You have yet to prove why DKC series are objectively bad games

What has been said.
I still don't think non-pixel perfect visible hitboxes are always bad, I actually think Rare somehow did the best of its kind with the DKC series. I can't think of any other game with this kind of art direction that flows so nice. With games like Rayman or EWJ, it always feels a bit wrong even though I enjoy those games, but DKC is a joy to play.
I still prefer stuff like Castlevania or SMW, but there's also pixel-perfect games that are trash and worse than Rayman or EWJ so that alone isn't an indicator if a game is good or not.

>>5083290
They exist because they don't expect the regular player to be a supreme autist retard whoring for every last life. You pick up 15-30 lives, who the fuck cares? Those lives are all gone pretty fast in the later levels. It's the most ridiculous, autistic, irrelevant, nonsensical criticism. Then we look at SMW that is incredibly broken in every way imaginable.

Another quality thread from the fine people at /vr/

>>5082926
I don't care about that, but DKC just isn't as fun as Mario 4

>>5083661
I'm too busy playing my original PCBs to care about making quality threads bro. Where are your quality threads anyway?

>>5083023
I got DKC when I was 5. I didn't beat it until I was 7. Gorilla glacier was pretty difficult and I remember beating it after being stuck for maybe a week, usually playing an hour or two after school. I only beat it because I randomly shot down into the secret barrel that skips the ending, then I just had to beat the other levels and make it to the save point which took me another couple days of figuring things out. I remember being 8 or 9 and I could just casually beat the game in about a week or less and every level is still engrained in my memory and I know when and where to jump in every level.

>>5083283
I have literally never had a problem judging jumps in "organic looking" platformers. You sound like you suck at these games and need an excuse.

>>5083283
I bet this no-instinct 'logical thinker' idiot doesn't like Sonic slope jumps either.

>>5082926
DKC and other western platformers (I'm looking at you David Perry) have poor level design in comparison to their Japanese peers.
>>5082980
>DKC2 is an A+ student of Nintendo's level design.
Horse shit. They tried hard, they really did, but they get a B at best.

>>5082980
>introduce a level concept
>create progressively difficult variations of that same concept throughout the level
>concepts from earlier levels will sometimes be revisited in later levels in a more difficult form
That's precisely why the level design is so bad. It's too fucking predictable.

>>5083552
You're a certified grade A retard, poster count stayed the same because it was clearly someone earlier from the thread. /vr/ is a relatively insular community anyway, this isn't fucking /b/ with thousand posts per minute.

Look at the posting time you moron, do you seriously fucking believe I came to a basically dead thread TWO HOURS LATER just to post "/thread"? You gotta be next level of stupid to think that, jeez.

For the record, all three post made at 9am ("because collision", "fast grind is still a grind", and "like if lives didn't matter") were written by me, because when I saw the thread I wrote several replies in a row.

Sometimes I wonder if this board would benefit from poster IDs. It would definitely cut down on both samefagging and pointless samefagging accusations.

>>5082980
>DKC1 is arguable, but DKC2 is an A+ student of Nintendo's level design.
So it's shit?

>>5083653
Beep, a fallacy. Just because SMW has the same problem that does NOT excuse the same problem present in DKC. If you ask me, SMW, DKC and Yoshi's Island should all have infinite lives and it would just improve them.

It's padding. The game is designed so you will grind for lives, lose them, go back to grinding spot, lose them et cetera. It's the EXACT same kind of boring padding for time that y'all say makes jRPGs 'unplayable' but somehow it's okay when platformers do it?!

>>5084312
Sonic slope jumps have a clear learnable arc that requires no guessing.

In DKC, you have to re-learn how jumping works in EVERY NEW TILESET because you have to relearn new ground level and where edges of the platforms are.

That does not make DKC a bad game by any means, but it makes it a bit sloppy and imprecise. If you ever wondered why there are Kaizo Mario hacks, but no Kaizo DKC hacks, that is why - the game is simply not precise enough. It drastically lowers the skill ceiling.

>>5084289
Of course you don't have a problem with that, *because designers account for this*. All jumps are designed to have a large amount of leeway (which you can increase by switching to Diddy). There is not a single pixel-perfect jump in any of the games, because they'd be freaking IMPOSSIBLE with these graphics.

That means the games are limited in what kind of challenge they can provide. "Organic looking" platformers have a choice of being easy or frustrating, with no inbetween.

>>5084413
Nice, you posted an still picture of a level whose entire gimmick is based around motion. Gee, I wonder why it looks boring this way... </sarcasm>

Seriously, good level design doesn't mean 'complex maze'. It means EXACTLY the shit we see in the picture.
First, overall difficulty curve - Donut Plains is an early level, it has to be really easy. Keep in mind that Super Mario World was bundled with the console, so for many people this would be their first videogame ever. So it HAS to be simple and easy.

Second, escalation WITHIN the level. The very first moving wall will not crush you, and in fact reward you for riding up - so it teaches you how moving walls work in a perfectly safe environment without needing a single work, or an obnoxious tutorial box. Player can experiment with the moving walls without risk of dying, and understand how they work.

Then, we have the first test - it's kinda like an exam. Did you understand how the moving walls work? if not, you will be crushed, and pushed back to the start - back to the object lesson.

Then, we hav escalation. Several walls in a row, mixed with flying enemies. Now this is some actual challenge. Player is unlikely to get hit, but since you only have max 3 hits in Mario, that is perfectly fine. It's enough danger to make player feel challenged - and feel fun.

Then, a twist. We combine walking enemies, flying enemies, moving walls - with uneven terrains. That provides a new challenge that player hasn't seen before.

And finally, one final challenge - player has to use a moving wall to perform a jump to the other side. Collectible dragon coins serves as an optional extra objective for the ambitious player - making them jump at the very edge of the moving wall, making it more likely they will miss the jump and fall into a pit. Risk versus reward.

And then, we're home free.

Simple 4-step design. Level designer use this structure to this day, and this level represents it brilliantly.

>>5084471
>Player can experiment with the moving walls without risk of dying
Except for the fact that, you know, the stage is an auto-scroller. Besides, the game doesn't need to teach the player how moving stuff works because it should be fucking obvious just looking at it. This whole "coddle the player first" bullshit is exactly why modern platformers suck. There's no fun in a level when its design is so formulaic you can guess how it's going to go from the very first obstacle.

>>5084515
>This whole "coddle the player first" bullshit is exactly why modern platformers suck.
Ah yes, Super Mario World, well known modern platformer.

STOP SAMEFAGGING

>>5084527
no

>>5084523
SMW was when Nintendo decided to make all their shit super casual

"Modern Platformers"
i know who you are, you are that insomnia.ac faggot.

>>5082939

This

DK suffers from the Sonic syndrome where very little happens so you gotta go fast to feel like you done something cool.

gamefeel is lost on the emubaby

>>5084552
icy hot or something

>>5084679
>>If is not mario is bad

Does this place seriously BELIEVE that any platformer that's not mario is bad? Or is just one autist?

>>5084695
There's only one good platformer.

>>5084695
You'd be hard pressed to find /vr/nauts that don't like non-mario platformers.
For instance, Wario has a lot of fans (and no, they're fundamentally very different from Mario games).

>>5084684
No, is this guy
http://insomnia.ac/reviews/megadrive/sonicthehedgehog2/

>>5084701
pedo

>>5084424
>If you ask me, SMW, DKC and Yoshi's Island should all have infinite lives and it would just improve them.
This is a valid, though kind of dumb, opinion.

>It's padding.
This is not a valid opinion. It changes the game, it's part of the experience, it's part of the gameplay. Nobody grinds for lives in these games, but it adds a bit of excitement sometimes when you're on your last life of a particular save.

You can agree to dislike them but if you think they're "padding" by logic then you're a fool. You may as well say not being able to press to teleport through every part where the enemies are gone is "padding". Also, I never said jrpgs are "unplayable", though as a 30-something year old adult with ambitions and responsibilities I'm not just going to plough into 40 hour fests of pressing a. You're so fucking stupid I don't know what to say to you.

>>5084692
>>5084695
you never played Keith Courage in Alpha Zone, shut the fuck up you little shit

>>5084701
little girl game? riiiiight ....

I hope the DKC autist is gone

>>5084736
>>5084707
mad

DKC is objectively a good game.Nothing will change that.

>>5084776
except reality

>>5084789
Reality is that DKC is a good game

>>5084793
DKC was shit, everyone who got it was a weirdo, that was like, the game your weird cousin with ADHD would bring over and never play

>>5084802
Not an a argument autist.

>>5084802
I know you're joking, but DKC was the game every kid wanted to play at the time. The grafixxxx bro! My whole class wanted to come home when I got the game at release.
It's honestly a good game, one of the best western platformers IMO.
But I still prefer SMW.

>>5084802
What the fuck are you even talking about.

I want the DKC autist to leave.

>Donkey Kong Country, now that was a good game

>>5084843
Yep he's back

>>5084843

Fortnite. now THAT'S a game.

>>5084806
>DKC was the game every kid wanted to play at the time.
I still have my Nintendo Power VHS covering the game. I remember when the game came out. It was pretty, but as soon as I got my hands on the game I thought it was complete shit.

>>5084852
objectively better than donkey kong country

Guys come on, nobody unironically thinks Donkey Kong Country is not a good game, they're pulling your leg.
>Take a game everyone says is a brilliant game.
>Shit on it.

>>5084947
>Rightfully

I feel bad for the DKC autist.

>>5083023
It was hard, but Cranky gave you tips on how to grind for lives.

I actually never beat a game without cheats and shortcuts before DKC, it was the first one I completed.

>>5083283
I get this shit for Earthworm Jim but it's hardly a problem in DKC.