/vr/ - Retro Games

>>5064814
> How do I get better at this?
by playing it, genius.
>Should I have started with 1 instead?
yes

How do I proceed? It's locked and there are no objects to interact with.

Can't help you with your question but you might be better off just playing the Anniversary version of the original.

>>5064891
Literally look behind you. There's a hole in the ceiling.

>>5064914
Anniversary is shit.

>>5064891
STICC

>>5064814
4 is the worst in my opinion
what you must play is start by 1 and then 2 and 3

>>5064814
TR4 was an awful starting point, because it's pretty much the hardest one of all Core games and lacks Croft Manor to train around. While I wouldn't encourage going all the way to TR1 (it has its own issue), TR3 is probably the best "starter" without need to go back to the first one.
And if you have enough spare time, naturally go back to TR1 and go from there.

>>5065197
>4
>Worst
The Man With No Taste

>>5064948
The bitch doesn't grab the ledge. She just jumps on place with her hands upwards.

He's trolling, don't waste your time.

>>5065274

3 is the hardest, dude. The level design is fucking bullshit. People should start with 1.

I started with TR4, it's not so bad at all.

2 best

fite me

(easiest) TR1 < TR4 < TR2 < TR3 (hardest)

There are obscure puzzles in all of them and places in which you go in circles for hours before finding the path/switch/item (unless playing with a guide).
Not the worst or most important example, but getting the Uzis in TR1 is done by jumping on an invisible square at 100m over the ground.

>>5065578
3 is also the most fun one, at least if we pretend London never happend. India, Pacific and bits of Nevada were fucking great, so was the final stage. Let's just pretend London and High Security Compound didn't happen and it's golden.

>>5065616
You are wrong and you should feel bad about it

>>5064814
Yes.
Start with 1. It's the easiest, and the level design and difficulty curve is perfect for beginners. Read the manual, and also choose "Lara's Home" on the main menu before starting the game so you know how to play.
Next play 2. It's a better game, but a worse starting point. Check the manual for the new moves.
Feel free to skip 3. It's basically more of 2 but with worse level design, worse plot, but more challenge.
If you can complete 2, you're ready for Last Revelation.

>>5065274
>>5065859

>>5065559
Hold down the button, dumbass.

>>5064814
cant believe they allowed this cover art. it is borderline porn. i bet millions of kids jerked off to those milkers back in the day.

>>5066481
>Lara Croft on the cover
>Lol, it looks like porn!
No, it looks like Core-era Lara Croft.

>>5065917
>Skipping 3
>2 but with worse level design
>Worse plot
>Implying it is even remotely possible to have worse plot than 2
>Implying those game were ever strong on plot
>Hating challenge

>>5064953
People like you are the reason why we've got nuLara.

>>5066931
Not him, but explain me your logic: how stating truism about Anniversary (because everyone knows it was shit) leads to getting nuLara? Because I' missing something here.

>>5066934
It's very simple.
When making LAU, even with all the changes devs still considered the original materials, they were trying to get tomb raider back on track. With each game in the trilogy they only tried to make games and Lara closer to the roots, but sales were only decreasing.
It was only logical to drastically change games and Lara herself for the new audience, if the old one can only bash their games.
PoP sands of time for example is considered a great game despite more casual approach compared to the original. It was made with the involvement of the original creator just like Toby returned for the new trilogy.
I don't even understand what's the problem with this fanbase, either people don't understand that things can't be the same or they simply don't even know what they want. They're begging for dual pistol for nuLara while completely forgetting it wasn't nearly enough to make them happy in LAU.

Are the PC ports the best way to play them? Any patches I should know about?

>>5067183
Yeah, but you need a multipatch. Also tr1 is without full soundtrack, you need a custom installer for that, there's a guide on steam for it.

>>5067170
Anon, do you know about all the stuff related to state of Eidos around the time LAU was made, all the stuff about Anni itself and then the eventual merger/take over by Squenix?
Because I'm not sure where should I start explaining things. It's not that you are badwrongfun wrong about the subject, but at least some important pieces of the drama related with TR, Eidos, Crystal Dynamics and Square Enix missed you and I'm not sure where to start.

>>5067183
>>5067194
GoG is your friend, you know...

>>5067295
Gog versions still need the patch if they didn't rebuild them in a year.
>>5067293
In one of these threads anon gave me links on articles about the core era, maybe it was even you, so you can do the same if you want, it will be faster than type everything by yourself. Or simply sent me to /v/ like any other people who have dissenting views.

>>5067392
It probably was me. Unfortunately, I don't have a ready material for final years of Eidos as independent company nor their interaction with LAU, so tipy tipey, here I go
Since you got those links, you probably already know what kind of legal nightmare Anniversary was and how Crystal Dynamics outright DIDN"T WANT to make it, but were forced by contractual obligation by Eidos, who in the same time was ripping Core Design a new one.
Either way, Crystal got a game they didn't want to make and in time when they had no manpower to even try, since they were busy working on Underworld. Underworld - a game that was supposed to be bigger, better and essentially evoke all the good things from Core era, especially TR2 and 3 style of maze levels with dozens of puzzles
Since they got stuck with Anni, they had to divide their manpower, but that wasn't enough, so they've ended contacting and hiring Buzz Monkey Software, a tiny-ass company that helped them previous year porting Legend into more obscure systems. Eidos realised this is a clusterfuck, but since they've already stomped Core to the ground, they couldn't just back-track, so they've paid Toby Gard a huge pile of money (which they owed to him anyway) just to get him on-board, apply a multiplier to Crystal's scarce manpower by having a Class-A expert on board and generally create a possitive buzz around the project
It quickly became obvious there is just no fucking way for Crystal to deliver for actual anniversary due to insufficient manpower (and even more people had to be send from Underworld to help around), which in turn led to the most disastrous decision and pretty much single-handly killed "old" TRs as a style of game, in a domino effect that wasn't obvious initially (I will return to that later)
Namely:
The marketing department decided to refocus the whole campaign for the game. Rather than blasting from every corner "10th years anniversary", they simply started to shape the game as "where it started"
>1/?

>>5067661
Which instantly became a problem for game's reception. As the production went and delays kept on mounting up, the marketing almost entirely ignored the fact it's a remake and instead tried to sell it as a game on its own. This alienated old fandom and didn't exactly attract new people to the game itself, because the campaign was all over the place, changing every month for different target.
And alongside were the issues with insufficient manpower and ticking clock. Which led to gutting of the game and removal of many elements that were declared superflous. That's why Anni is so god-damn streamlined - they literally couldn't afford anything better or wider.
And on top of all this shit, the press copy that got delivered few weeks before premiere, had virtually no copy protection, aside expiring by November that year. The copy obviously leaked to the net and you could play a fully fledged Anniversary, with no bullshit attatched, almost two weeks before the premiere. In fact, my then-girlfriend-now-wife gave to me as a birthday present a pirate copy of Anni, two days before it hit stores.
So when the game eventually DID hit stores, it was a guaranteed disaster:
- old fandom was displeased by streamlined design and dumbed down design
- new fandom from Legend was unimpressed, because the game was even aside the whole remake issues just meh
- people outside TR pretty much ignored it
- lots of folks played the game before it premiered due to shit-show that was the copy for reviewers
If the marketing was more consistent, the game could at least get more people drawn to it, instead of making sure nobody really cared about it.

But there is more. Since more and more people had to be moved from Underworld to Anni, that meant development of Underworld suffered. Eventually most ambitious plans had to be scrapped entirely if they were to deliver the game on schelude, even once the Anni team rejoined rest of Crystal to help with Underworld.
>2/?

>>5067665
Underworld struggled in production and there were notorious issues with lighting shaders. Eventually the game was in a state that theoretically allowed a release in 2008, keeping the "one TR per year" pace and hitting stores in traditional mid November slot. This unfortunately meant neck-breaking pace in final stage of development, which was responsible for the god-awful camera work.
The game had a fuckload of buzz around it when it was still in production, partially to cover the bitter taste left by Anni. Said buzz was focusing on all the new and flashy elements, to distance Underworld from Anni and image of "stale franchise that only reheats old games". Which also meant few things had to be changed during production.
Things that also have been already streamlined before due to insufficient manpower for development. Ultimately Underworld had to be first trimmed and then trimmed again, dropping off a lot of things on the way and leading to cutting certain levels short.
Game hits stores and it gets "meh" reaction, because:
- overhyped, or at least overhyped when compared with actual content
- it's overly dramatic thanks to the guys from marketing department (it was the period where everyone was throwing overblown drama to their games and Underworld was late puppy in the litter, getting hit by flak for such practice)
- the promises are only partially met
- the camera is from fucking hell, to the point people reporting severe cases of nausea
It sells better than Anniversary, sure, but Anniversary burned a lot of goodwill Crystald had and people managed to get tired with those new TRs in just 3 games, rather than 5 in Core's run. Not to mention Anni was the worst selling TR to date and despite best effort, Underworld didn't manage to rebound.
It's generally ironic repetition of events from AoD development, where Core was stuck with Chronicles first and thus lost 7 months of development time.
>3/?

>>5067671
All of this, must be seen from perspective of Eidos, which was bouncing checks all the time to stay afloat. Underworld was their "to be or not to be"
Not to be
They were already negotiating deal to be bough or at least sell part of their library. Cue out of the blue Square Enix shows up, mostly looking at the library of titles, not the assets of Eidos itself. They merge, rebrand, restructurise, but it's Squenix that's calling shots at this point
And then comes the infamous report, showing to the board that Eidos has a great potential for remakes and analysis how to use library
See, when new company takes a library of copyrights, their best course of action is reboot or at least remake. Preferably under the same title as original, to confuse the living shit of archives and in modern times - search engines. Reboots also guarantee free hand in doing whatever the fuck they want to do. And justification? Well, the old formula clearly didn't work, right? If we squint and ignore WHY it stopped working, we can spin a story how the whole franchise must be re-imagined and re-worked into something completely new, because it was the fault of the brand and not mismanagement. Especially since some of the people responsible for said mismanagement are now your high-ranking employees, so you can't say they fucked up.
Ultimately Squenix decides to reboot bunch of titles, including TR. Most of said reboots fail spectacularly, but since they've dropped 190 millions on marketing of TR'13, there was just no way to bomb. I mean it DID bomb and they didn't recover the expenditure to this day (production alone didn't return until 5 mil copies sold), but it created a momentum to keep going with the franchise (despite original vote of no confidence for another TR).
So on one hand we have corporate fuck-up, on the other corporate management decisions and ultimately the reboot "had to" be done mostly for the sake of it. And once you have reboot and new fandom, you can ignore past
>4/4

>>5067679
Thanks, I think they didn't want to make anniversary precisely because they were already busy with underworld. Also this early leak of anniversary could really be the reason of low sales.

>>5064891
ohh fuck, at least you are trying, but stop asking for help and take some time to figure shit out yourself!

>>5064914
No

The only tip you need for TR 1-5 is:
- When there's a huge gap you need to jump over, walk slowly towards the edge (I think SHIFT or CTRL does it), jump backwards ONCE (push BACK), run and jump. It'll always work.

This tip is necessary for beginners because the older TRs didn't really use "true 3D" for Lara's movement - you still move based on invisible grids on the floor, and Lara's movements (usually jumping forward) only register once you pass from one grid to another. By doing the walk to edge -> jump backwards, you make sure to always be at the perfect distance for the jump to register.

>>5067797
>t. someone who doesn't fully understand the movement scheme
You don't need to cross the grid. But you need to cross specific amount of steps for specific amount of momentum to jump over. Standard jumps are "two-steps" and huge ones are 3 steps. Doesn't matter how much grid you cross.
But your final advice is still true, because it positions Lara for the "two-step" jump.

>>5067824
If only they were on a real 3D system like the N64.

>>5067872
>real 3D
The fuck you are even talking about? The game pretty much DEFINED how 3D game is supposed to work, as contrary to 2D games in 3D sets.

>>5067872
>real 3D
The technical side of graphics doesn't have anything to do with the way the gameplay was designed.

>>5067872
good thing they were on PC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GMesT4WKzI

>>5067661
>>5067665
>>5067671
>>5067679
Jesus Christ, why Tomb Raider always has to end up fucked by the publisher? Why?! They fucked up under Core, they fucked up LAU and then they've created the abomination of current reboot. This time around they didn't even manage to produce a single good game.

>>5064891
You can always look up a walkthrough like we did when that game was current.

>>5068807
I think they thought putting Lara on the cover is enough for success.

>>5068807
Suffer, like I have suffered
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Xxc4XEkJew
This should be titled "Everything wrong with current gen" or "Why 2nd reboot TR is shit"

>>5067679
>the reboot "had to" be done
Well, current Lara now constantly has to do something, to the point you can have a drinking game. Or can try having one, because if you aren't Slav (I am), it's going to murder you.

>>5068807
The reboots have had their own share of development issues and last minute changes and rewrites too.

I feel bad for Crystal Dynamics, I know they could make a good Tomb Raider game but they A) don't want to even make Tomb Raider games and B) keep being fucked by first Eidos, then Square-Enix when they're forced to make a Tomb Raider game.

>>5069042
Nah, they actually wanted to make TRs. Two of them: Legand and Underworld. Then they've realised how fucking god-awful Eidos is about this franchise and in the process got Anniversary, which fucked them up royaly (they almost went bankrupt thanks to the combined costs of Anni and Underworld vs revenue). It's always the same story, really: Eidos being bunch of morons. And currently Crystal is pretty much stuck with TR, which means trouble, because they've just finished current trilogy and there is no idea whatsoever what to do now.
On the plus-side, most of people related with anything even remotely good that was made by the studio quit long time ago, so now majority is made out of code monkeys, which nobody is going to cry after.

>>5069089
Also, daily reminder Natla wasn't ever planned to be part of Crystal's games and Natla Technologies was originally just an easter egg in Legend. So just try to imagine how different Underworld would be without her.

>>5064953
Nah, it's good and better than all of other CD's games, including nu-TR.

>>5067665
It's still amazing how Anniv turned out to be as good as it was and better than Legend though. If anything, TRL was THE streamlined game in the series back then.

>>5071290
Nice bait you've got going, unfortunately nobody to swallow it.
Anniversary only and ONLY works as a game if you played it first, before playing TR1. If you had it in chronological order, Anni sucks ass, because it can't stand the comparison with 11 year older title

>>5071290
Being better than Legend is no achievement at all. It's like praising any given TR for "having less bugs than AoD"

>>5070680
classic lara is 2sexy

>>5072620
>>5072707
Anniv > Legend, Underworld, AoD, TR2013, Rise and Shadow

>>5072620
>>5072707
Anniv > Legend, Underworld, AoD, TR2013, Rise and Shadow

The only way we can agree is if you say all these other games are worse.

>>5070680
classic lara always reminds me of a young janet jackson for some reason

>>5073126
From the listed:
>Gameplay
Underworld > Anni = Legend > AoD > bottomless void > Shadow > TR'13 > Rise
>""""""Story potential""""""
AoD > Underworld > Legend > Anni... and that's it, because 2nd reboot sucks ass.

Anni is literally gutted TR1 on modern(ish) controls and graphics. It has all the bad elements of LAU trilogy highlighted, it fucks up original lore, it makes Lara insufferable and with abysmal attempt at """"origin story"""" (halmarking the shitfest that's 2nd reboot). It really takes an effort to fuck up 1:1 remaster, but congrats, Crystal managed to achieve that.
Why the fuck you think that's the least successful TR game to date, despite, you know, being an anniversary project?

>>5073364
>Underworld > Anni on both
Should I give Underworld another chance? Last time I played, it screamed "rushed game" all over. I really hated those janky camera, controls and animations.

>Why the fuck you think that's the least successful TR game to date, despite, you know, being an anniversary project?
I honestly had no idea and I've been asking people since a while ago. I guess for those who started with the Core games and saw how much it was gutted, it sucked; and for those who got the leaked game, they got the full game for free. And no marketing. I finished TR1 a while ago, I saw how much of the content was cut. But coming from nu-TR and Legend first, Anniv was miles away from these games. Legend gets too much credit.

>>5074218
Let's put it this way:
When played outside of its original context (rushed Christmas premiere), Underworld is pretty good. Level design, especially for Thailand and Mexico, is really damn good and evokes the best vibes I always had about Core TRs. It's definitely less streamlined than Legend, it's the longest game in LAU trilogy and its generally fun to play.
The camera still sucks, thou, and it's an arc story I couldn't care less about.

In other words, Crystal proved with this game they are perfectly capable of delivering decent TR on their own, without hype or just making a remaster. So naturally it all went to bucket and we had 2nd reboot, because fuck you player for being with this franchise for past 22 years.

>>5074218
And as for Legend - it brought the franchise back from the brink. The marketing for it was also big part of the success, especially Miss Adebibe. Besides, my own approach to Legend is very simple. It's not an actual TR, but a tech demo mady by new company to show what they are capable off. Then they've made corporate-demand remaster and only then they've made the game they wanted to make. With such narrative, LAU trilogy as a whole is much better to take.

>>5064891
Disgusting zoomer.

>>5067797
>When there's a huge gap you need to jump over, walk slowly towards the edge (I think SHIFT or CTRL does it), jump backwards ONCE (push BACK), run and jump. It'll always work.
This is stated in all 3 tutorial levels, 4 if you count the first level of TLR

>>5068862
It's better than the actual review he made.

>>5073364
It's pretty easy to be dissapointed if something doesn't live your headcannon, is Toby describing you in this fragment?
https://youtu.be/VTJqA5EQWa8?t=996
Also who the fuck told you it will be 1:1 remaster, with all these new legend mechanics there's no way it would be the same.
And finally
>judging games by sales numbers
Are fucking serious? TR 2013 is the best in the franchise by this logic then.

>>5074776
>Here, let me post the interview he made for Crystal Dynamics
>Let me casually ignore the interview he did in private after being done with them

Rest of your post is missing the point so hard I'm confused if you are trying to bait now to keep thread afloat or are genuinely dense.

>>5065559
DID YOU EVEN DO THE FUCKING TUTORIAL!? It takes like five minutes and explains literally everything about the controls!

>>5074889
I can assume that he's not entirely honest here, but you can easily post the interview to back up your point. Lara is a really sensitive theme for him and I wouldn't be surprised if he was dissapointed during development again.
Also there's nothing to miss really, the point is a usual "old good new bad" bashing of anything post-core.

>>5074324
I guess, but this was 10+ years ago. Now that the games can be played out of their context, I see Legend as a very linear game filled with setpieces, making it feel close to Uncharted; Anniv as game keeping all the best elements of Legend and ditching all (or most, ymmv) of its bad elements and carried by (some of) TR1's content; and Underworld as an ambitious yet flawed game. I hope Underworld got a fan patch on PC.

I've never seen another piece of media create an Ancient-Egyptianesque-Cyberpunk race like the Atlantian rulers. You'd think people would be all over that shit.

>>5075235
Not him, but Gard is autistic. As in - for real, medicaly-certified autistic.
Thus getting from him ANY kind of statement is ridiculous, because he says whatever you ask him for to say, while thinking whatever he wants, but never sharing. Part of the reason why he quit Core was due to inability to work with him and his behaviour, because he literally shut up in his office and wouldn't do anything. Sure, we all know the biggest issue was marketing and how Eidos was fucking things up, but Gard was no saint himself.
And it's really hard to say that Anniversary is better than Core games. Or even peak of Crystal. The main issue with Anniversary in terms of remake was covered by some anon already above the thread. So they've been cutting corners in almost literal sense. As a game all by itself, without remake context - it's sure an improvement over Legend, but it's far from perfect.
As for me, personally, the biggest problem Anniversary has is extremely low hanging difficulty bar. I never, ever use a single med pack while playing it. Why bother, if you have (a) checkpoints with autosave every 30 seconds and (b) health is restored to full upon reloading. Not that you can die to begin with, because unless you really try or the camera fucks things up, you won't die on your own or by game design. Then there is the complexity of level design itself. This was entry point for my flat-mate during unit times to TRs as a whole. He never played such games before, not to mention TR1. He finished Anniversary with almost all relics or whatever they've renamed secrets into collected. On his own, without walkthrough. I know anecdotal evidence is no evidence, but this one really stands out.

>>5075497
Oh, and there are also the annoying LAU music cues. All three games keep blasting "combat music" until all enemies are killed. This really breaks immersion and kills the mood, because the music is pointless, repetitive and spoils the scene by basically telegraphing "hey, you are not alone!"

>>5075497
I feel bad for Toby.

>>5075497
I did find Anniversary to be harder than Legend, even with the new health and checkpoint systems and I didn't get all relics on my first walkthrough.

>>5075852
I'm still confused about the concept of "secrets" in Legend, if the very first one just sits in the open and half of them (including silver ones) are in plain sight. There is close to zero attempt to make them hard to find and not counting the gold one from Kazakhstan, it's all extremely straigh-forward.
Meanwhile, Anniversary at least puts some effort into them, so some need thinking it out and others are really well-hidden (Natla's Mine anyone?)

>>5064814
Just stop being such a scr...

>>5064891
Never mind, you are beyond help, just drop the franchise

>>5075852
The only hard one to figure was in Natla's Mine. Because you had to manually aim for the rope and there was absolutely no suggestion you can shoot the rope in the first place.

Maybe I'm brainlet, but puzzles like this where changing one variable changes few others too is the hardest thing to me. While understanding that I have to match images on the pillars, I messed them so much with trial-and-error, so I had to load previous save to the initial state in order to be able apply the solution from the guide.

>>5076193
Im going be honest i have to look a guide for the
Kazakhstan and Bolivian gold.
Still pretty easy compared to earlier games.

>>5079205
>I'm a brainlet
Here, ftfy.

>>5079714
Bolivia was easy. But Kazakhstan relied entirely on physics of the engine, which made it harder to figure out, unless you were eager to toy with the engine itself for the sake of it. I personally still remember the struggle with Bolivia and the "puzzle" with catapult, because it took me a moment to realise the game is capable of doing that in the first place.

>>5066481
Besides people didnt freak out over little things back then

>>5079205
You are one dense motherfucker