/vr/ - Retro Games

>>5045259
Yes

Id shooters > 3D Realms shooters > Epic shooters

I enjoy the setting of Quake 1 more, but I like the weapons and level design more in Unreal. Pretty sure I find equal enjoyment in both.

>>5045259
Yes

>>5045259

I loved Unreal. I fanned over it so bad for months before it came out. Saved every image that was released on their website. The engine was so great & the art designs were so beautiful. Still load it up once a year on jump on the DOG servers to play some co-op.

That being said, I have so many fond memories of Quake 1. Campaign co-op and Team Fortress mod.

Large chunk of my teenage years were chewed up by both these games. I don't think one is better than the other; I think they're equally great. Don't remember any zealotry. Everyone played both.

>>5045259
Unreal would be better if the enemies weren't so spongy

whichever one you played first

lmao nostalgia wars

>>5045259
It is an interesting and valid question. After all, Unreal is the only game, that could more or less be called "Quake clone" Quake has ever gotten before the Half-Life got released and changed the genre forever. Or more like the only high profile FPS explicitly influenced by Quake's campaign without having been influenced by Half-Life's campaign. It is pretty much "Quake 1.5" despite having been started even before Quake engine began development.

What can I say about the whole issue in general?

1) Quake is a game that basically asks a question of what mapping even is. It starts from a certain shared pool of graphical and sound resources, then goes to pains in order to showcase that each level designer interprets each of those pieces of content he uses in his maps completely differently, infuses the resources he uses with his own meaning completely independent of how other mappers interpret the same things. In other words, it's not that Quake's aesthetics is a hodgepodge, it's that every piece constituting Quake's aesthetics is as ambiguous as possible. There is no canon explanation or canon meaning to any part of Adrian's and Kevin's artistry you see in Quake, since there are several incompatible explanations to any such a thing, hence you can just as well come up with your own whatever meaning instead of trying to divine whatever the creators of the game intended it to symbolize. Moreover, Quake is peculiar in lacking the main level-designer. Duke had Blum, Blood had Wilson, Doom had Romero, Marathon had Jason Jones. In Quake, Carmack went to PAINS in order to ascertain for Romero's levels to be treated completely and absolutely equally to all the other three leveldesigners, with no one of four having an upper hand on any account. What that entails, given wildly different mapping styles of those four level-designers, is that there is no, or rather there isn't supposed to be, any canon or correct way to map for Quake that would constitute...

>>5045357
underrated post

>>5045359
...a more inherently "Quake" experience than certain other ways to map. The meaning of this is quite evident: there is no correct way to map, you are not supposed to copy either Romero (ESPECIALLY Romero), McGee, or whomever, you are supposed to get wild, to self-express, to make your own thing. This devolves Quake's singleplayer campaign to the status basically of a glorified collection of usermaps, that simply showcase you the stuff that can be done with the engine, HOWEVER, at the same time, said usermaps, not only those constituting Quake's campaign, but Quake's usermaps in general are elevated to the status of the genuine works of art and the products of inspired individual self-expression. The Quake itself, thus, is framed primarily as a tool both for creating and for accessing said works of art, meaning individual maps.
tl;dr: Quake is pretty much "level-artistry -> level-design". The point is not what content and props you have at your disposal, it is how you use them in order to create gameplay experiences that are distinctively "yours".

2) Unreal starts from pretty much the same point, having a similar-looking techfantasy hodgepodge look, proudly boasting whoever created each map at the start of said map, with the title of the game itself alluding to people getting seriously wild with their level-designs over the course of the campaign. How Fucking Ever. The crucial difference is that canonically all the levels constituting Unreal's campaign occupy the same ingame universe, and, ultimately, self-expression or not, they yield to the same consistent look, the same general aesthetics, the same tone. In other words, it's a PLACE, it doesn't contradict itself. Self-expression or not, ultimately the mapper yields to the "general idea" of the game he is mapping for. Rather than the individual levels, the game's campaign as a whole is framed as a work of art, and rather than bringing at the forefront the mapper, as Quake does...

Holy essay, batman

>>5045259
Speaking of singleplayer, I've replayed Quake 1 quite a few times but I've never made it all the way through Unreal's campaign.

Unreal has better enemy AI (if you're into bots designed to play like humans do in deathmatch multiplayer) but the level design can be really confusing and full of "where the fuck do I go" moments like when you need to touch all the bricks on a wall to find the one that's actually a button. Doesn't help that there's no automap, Unreal could have used one.

Quake 1's enemies are more basic in their behavior but the levels are fun to navigate and I don't recall ever getting confused as to where to go. I don't mind the more basic AI either, because I've grown up playing probably hundreds of games where nobody expects NPC's to behave like other other human players would, and I think that's sometimes more fun than playing against smart enemies (I will always appreciate smart enemies though).

Every time I play Quake 1 I feel like there's no other FPS quite like it, not even its sequels or other Id games. When I play Unreal 1 I have a blast until I get lost/confused and then I decide to play against Unreal Tournament bots instead because as good as the enemy AI is, I like it better when the maps don't force me to look up a walkthrough or strategy guide.

>>5045279
/thread

>>5045404
...Unreal brings at the forefront the game director. It can be even said that Quake's apparent lack of game direction and incitement of whoever maps for Quake to get wild IS, in fact, a result of a very deliberate and explicit act of game direction, and that posing for being utterly uninvolved as a game director still very much involves slapping the hands of whoever might decide to direct the game instead of your seemingly uninvolved self. In other words, Quake's purity is NOT something that should be taken for anything near granted, and is, in itself, a result of as much active effort, as that which went into making Unreal feel continuous and consistent.

So, OP, actually, I don't really know what to say in regards to your question. Unreal 1 actually complements Quake 1 and acts very much, well, maybe not as a true sequel to it, but rather as an earnest reply to it. Those two games are the results of compatible worldviews, but they have different focus and make different points. That is to say, that rather than compete, they coexist, and the act of comparing them doesn't make all that much sense, they simply do their own things.

Quake has way better actual level-design (as opposed to artistry) though.

>>5045259
>Engine
UE < id Tech 3
>Movement
UT < Q3
>Environment variety
UT > Q3
>Character design
UT < Q3 <<<< UT2004
>Map roster fun factor
UT = Q3
>Weapon fun factor
UT secondary fire < Q3 no filler but both good
>Weapon MLG factor
UT shock combo < Q3 holy trinity
>Soundtrack
UT > Q3
>SP campaign
UT = Q3 <<<< UT2004
>Bonus round
UT intro > Q3 intro
I prefer Q3 just slightly because UE1 movement felt janky and id Tech 3 was butter smooth

Unreal was until they gave up on UT4 and made Fortnut. Qc is the first gave i liked because it wasnt an adhd sporadic seizure fuckfest. But ut99/2k4/3 > q3 any day.

>>5045450
I hope you know Fortnite was in development since Gears of War 3.

>>5045495
and it was a neat idea til they capitalized on battleroyale mode. Where's GoW pc remaster? Who knows, they've pushed all teams to making skins and dance animation.

unreal has way more interesting environments than all the quake games combined.

>>5045510
This.

I think only the movement in quake 3 is better than ut99

>>5045504
But Gears of War was already on PC

>>5045620
we don't talk about that shitty port.

>>5045626
Ran pretty well on my 8800GT at the time minus GFWL

>>5045638
i heard it was mostly just buggy as shit unless I'm thinking of the ps3 port.

>>5045728
>Gears of War on PlayStation

>>5045741
it's so bad they erased it from the internet.

>>5045357
delet this

>>5045450
they gave up in ut3

>>5045504
>Where's GoW pc remaster
is being plugged with a battle royale mode right now

>>5045778
Everytime I tell myself I'm going to give UT3 another whirl in singleplayer, I play UT3 Black Edition for a few minutes before uninstalling it again.

>>5045728
>I'm thinking of the ps3 port

>>5045781
F.L.A.G.S.

>>5045781
RESPAWNERS

>>5045279
Reverse that for multiplayer

>>5045357
>1996 vs 1998
gee, what did I play first

Unreal has more interesting and varied environments in the first hour than Quake has across the breadth of its entire series.

I feel like the only things Quake has over unreal are better weapon balance, and in the case of Quake 3, better movement.

>>5045259
Unreal is pure fucking trash. Always has been. UT was fun though, but still trash compared to Q3. Quake is majestic. A hunter is a hunter even in a dream.

>>5046454
>say literally any game is better than Quake
>That game is trash!!!!!
Quakefags in a nutshell

>>5046317
Even the enemies in unreal are more interesting and fun to face. Meanwhile a lot of enemies in quake are forgettable and bland.

>>5046713
>Me skaarj me bad
Nah

>>5045781
UT4 is playable, and it got rid of some of the weird stuff from UT3. Shame Epic lost interest in it when Fortnite started shitting money

>>5048031
UT4 is the most skeleton ass game I've ever played. You could say all you need is the framework and core gameplay to have fun, but if that's the case, literally just go play 99 or 2004.

>>5046586
we dont have to be talking about quake for me to saw unreal is shit m8

but yeah quack is better than everything desu

>>5047678
>Me shambler me bad
Nah

>>5048069
Qwak is pretty damn good, but the flak Cannon is too cool

>>5045259
They both got very shallow skill sets and are all about timing. I think quake is slightly more shallow but it's hard to pinpoint. I think because quake is faster it has less tactics and is more about reflexes and timing and the weapons are less varied than in quake. Overall unreal wins for me, because the maps are so much better and varied.
Usually the deciding factor for me would be which game got the hotter girls.. But both score in that department so there isn't a winner in that category.
I never thought about how shallow unreal and quake actually are which is a nice thing to think about. Make me appreciate gore ultimate soldier even more. The best multiplayer fps on this planet.

>>5048031
the ut4 interface is one of the worst things ever

>>5045781
the only thing wrong with ut3 is the map variety; there's like 4 locations and that's it. Also there is no actual music playing unless you kill someone and then that produces an annoying klaxon that's impossible to turn off.

Is Unreal 2 SP any good?

>>5048336
you tell me

>>5048336
It is very ordinary.
Banter is pretty snappy at places, I guess.
Overall, though, it's, just, honestly, whatever.

,

Unreal was one of the first fps games I owned and in my opinion its singleplayer sucks ass. UT99 is great fun but unreal has nothing on its peers like Quake, Jedi Knight, or Half-Life. Even that Wheel of Time game on the unreal engine is probably better.

>>5045406

>>5045259
I liked quake's singleplayer and I somehow ended up with a ps1 copy at some point and remember it was playable too. I like unreal multipleyer more than quake though I have had fun with the newer quake game recently

>>5045259
Unreal, but that just opinions.

>>5045446
>Engine
>UE < id Tech 3
Legit fuckin retarded, m8.

>>5045259

Quake/Quake II: Better multi-player
Unreal: Much better 1 player (campaign) experience.

Unreal Tournament is a whole different animal.

>>5045426
Quake monsters have a defined set of behaviors you can learn and improve upon then.
In Unreal, every enemy circle strafe to take you down and make random decisions on the fly. They are designed to be multiplayer bots and that's why it doesn't work on the single player campaign.

>>5048343
We have better boobs these days, anon.

>>5045259

Quake 1 set the proverbial world on fire with it's first practical polygon room-over-room technology. The ability to walk under the bridge that you had just walked over was absolutely stunning.

Unreal came out a few years later and so had the benefit of better tech so, from a tech perspective, it's not a fair fight.

The more fair match-up is Quake 2 vs. Unreal.

For my money, Quake 2 vs. Unreal is a draw. Unreal did some things real nice & Quake 2 did some things real nice.

>>5049429
care to share?

>>5045259
Unreal was a good game built around a great engine. Quake was a hastily slapped together tech demo for a pretty decent engine which would see much better use in later titles, such as Daikatana.

>>5048336
Hard to say; I accidentally blinked and missed most of it.
No seriously Unreal 2 is the only game I've played outside of the C64 where the load time literally outweighted the gameplay time. Sit around for five minutes staring at a loading bar so that you can shoot at lame spiders for four minutes with a selection of guns so unique and interesting that I can't remember a single thing about any of them. Probably would be less bad on a modern computer with a SSD.

>>5048336
I tried to play it recently, but then I gave up when the game crashed and deleted my latest fucking saves for some reason, so I had to repeat the second mission once again, which is the most boring defence mission I can think of

>>5050851
Daikatana used the Quake 2 engine. It was originally developed with the Q1 engine, but Romero decided to move it to Q2 which threw a ton of time & money away. Q1 was used for Hexen 2, and Valve used it as a base for GoldSrc.

>>5045426
>>5049426
>complaining that enemy AI is too good and acts too similar to human players.

What the fuck!?

>>5048062
>UT4 is the most skeleton ass game I've ever played.

I think there are some free2play gookshit thats even more barebones, maybe certain games in beta stages. I hated the art direction and most of the level design too when I played it. It was ok gameplay and balance wise though. The new movement options made it kind of confused though.

>>5045357
I never played Unreal.

>>5051365
It's more the crazy-AI than humanlike-AI that they have a problem with. The skills used in predicting humans and AI are very different, but predicting a random AI is impossible, meaning that everything prior to a certain point of skill is russian roulette.

Unreal is clearly better. The real fight is Unreal vs Q2, there I think Q2 edges out the win.

The build trifecta (D3D, Blood, SW) wins out over all contenders though.

>>5051389
This is the precise reason Max is the most dangerous character in Poker Night despite Tycho being the most skilled AI.

>>5051381
Yeah, gookshit versus fucking Epic games, one of the pioneers of arena shooters. And the newest game in this very important series is barebones as fuck.

>>5045259
does anyone here want to explain to me how this one co-op server I'd love playing on had the ability to shrink players and make them really tiny including their first person views? I could never figure that out.

>>5051389
It's a while since I played Unreal, but isn't there some bullshit with the elite warrior alien enemy where they randomly auto-dodge rockets as soon as you fire them?

>>5045426
>Unreal has better enemy AI

This is the biggest fucking understatement ever made on /vr/. id Software's games had SHIT A.I. Unreal had arguably THE best A.I. of ANY game at the time, and was completely unmatched in the FPS genre.

>>5051879
>id Software's games had SHIT A.I.
Quake 3 actually had decent bots, not on UT's level but still not bad for a genre where the standard enemy just rushes forward aimlessly or "takes cover" and loses all situational awareness.

>>5048392
Jedi knight has some amazing gameplay, I don't know why you don't all download game ranger and iirc and start your own server.

Come to think of it, why no JKDFii general thread?

>>5051985
http://jkdf2.net

Someone start it

>>5051531
They dodge most of your projectiles, so just use hitscan. The mercenary guys with the invisibility shield, now that's bullshit

>>5051991

it happened
>>5052017

>>5051412
>The real fight is Unreal vs Q2, there I think Q2 edges out the win.

the fuck.

>>5051531
Rocker launcher has a lock-on feature you know

>>5051531
So you fire two: one straight at the fucker, another, immediately after that - at the place where he'll land (you need to fire while he is still mid-jump predicting the landing point based on the direction of his jump).

>>5052296
Stinger against skaarjes is pretty fucking fun. You tra-ta-ta at the lizard until it jumps, then shotgunblast (altfire) the landing zone. All the while evading the attempts to melee you. Very fun stuff, although it does get old eventually.

>>5045259
>what's better? the fps that launched in 1996 or the one in 1998?

>>5052961
Both of those tactics (as well as, say, ASMD-comboing) are effectively minigames though, that's why they do eventually get old.

>>5053556
You can say that about every enemy encounter in games though

>>5045259
>Which was better Quake or Unreal?
Tribes

>>5045357

Nah, I prefer U over Q and I played Q first. Q just isn't that good honestly.

>>5052534

Unreal is just pretty bland in SP. Q2 does the run-n-gun thing better. Unreal MP is better than Q2 MP though.

>>5054712
unreal's first level is more interesting the entire quake 2 single player

>>5054610
I actually liked Vengeance the most out of Tribes games. Its streamlined enough compared to the first 2 to make it enjoyable.

>>5055361
First Tribes was LITERAL "UT '99, but on steroids and with jet-packs", so no, fuck you.

>>5045778
UT3 was a good game, it just needed more maps and more diverse character models.

>>5048031
UT4 was doing great but it lacks maps and it lacks the mutators. I would go in and play dm or tdm in the same three fucking maps constantly. They had the right idea going in but they should have and could have pushed it more. Instead it was all about Foreskin and Gears 23113.

>>5051389
>>5051365
>>5049426
This pretty much summarizes why I dislike Unreal. Yeah, the enemy AI is pretty fucking cool, but it's not really fun to fight.

>>5054712
Dude what? Unreal has amazing environmental storytelling and direction that keeps you engaged, versus Quake 2 just telling you to go do shit with extremely boring objectives that get interrupted every three minutes. Time to blow up the pyramid, but first you gotta go blow up the power plant, but first you gotta blow up the security grid, but first you gotta rip out your brain stem and jump rope with it at the nearest four way intersection. It's an incredibly tedious game that nosedives in quality after the Big Gun fight.

>>5057439
>UT3 was a good game
I politely disagree
I don't even want to talk about ut4

>>5058129
I can understand the majority of the hatred it gets, but it was at least an 8/10 or 7/10 at least for arena shooters at the time. Especially 3am xbox 360 bot matches before school. You didn't get 7th gen arena shooter goodness on console any other way unless you played Halo 3 og style.

>>5058136
>7-8/10
don't you remember the massive bug clusterfuck that was on release?, that killed the game before it had any chance
the game wasn't playable until black edition

>>5058136
oh, sorry, I "played" it on pc

>>5058139
> buggy release bullshit
that's an understandable make or break. I only had the shit on console til I built my first gaming rig in 2012. Before that I was limited to 2k4 and 99 on pc, Sauerbraten was the most hd arena shooter I could play.

I played Unreal coop during the height of modding and hacking. It was a glorious time. Drama, fun and many keks to be had. It lasted for quite a while until WoW and Social Media killed it, since unreal was basically living on a thread of being a social platform.

Oh well, it was good times and it helped me learn how to program so im not sad about it.

>>5059885
How did social media and WoW kill arena shooters?

>>5058136
you must be at least 12 to post here.

>>5045259
Quake

>>5045357
>whichever one you played first
it's always the dumbest people who say this, because while there's a nugget of truth but it's never the whole truth nor the most interesting truth.

>>5060638
It didn't specifically kill arena shooters, just the specific subset community of unreal coop, and probably others that were effectively used as social outlets