/vr/ - Retro Games

he was based

>>5045214

He was the best.

>>5045319
He was the only character worth a damn.

>>5045389
>Rescuing Princess Garnet from Alexandria castle
>he's forced to cut down his fellow knights & countrymen
>He does not do a victory pose.
>That alone broadcasts that it's killing him inside, yet he must continue on.
Brilliant subtlety you just didn't see in 7 & 8.

>>5045214
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeciA7yViqM

>>5045389
>>5045414
FF9 was honestly the best game probably ever s far as story goes.
Baten Kaitos was pretty good also.
7 is still my favorite but man 9s characters are so great. All of them serve some sort of purpose besides maybe amarant or quina.

Internet feminists told me the damsel in distress in video games is bad. Weird how this game is never mentioned though.

>>5045470

Garnet was generally pretty capable and often rather clever is probably why. While she does occasionally need a bit of requesting it was never because of her own fault or inability or when it was it was in service of larger character growth. Like to compare her to other PS1 heroines.

Garnet went to convince her mother, someone she had a slim chance of reasoning with to stop her war. Also she was smart enough to bring along her body guard who hits like a truck with her bit while she lacked PHYSICAL strength she came up with clever ways to sneak past the border and escape lindblum.

Rinoa meanwhile snuck into an evil sorceress castle and tried to get her to wear a magical bangle that she swear wasn't a trap honest. And she should totally wear it and it won't seal her powers I swear.

Id also like to say Tifa sneaking into Don Corneo's rape den was pretty idiotic but generally better intended and she's not nearly as helpless as Rinoa in generall and she gets scenes later in the game where she redeems herself in a pretty big way so we can call that a wash.

>>5045457
Man of taste right here. Absolutely cannot fathom the people who dislike the characters in 9.

>>5045214
He was based because of the cringe.

>>5045539
>Absolutely cannot fathom the people who dislike the characters in 9.
You don't understand why people might not like Steiner, who spends the first couple hours of the game being a complete fuckup in charge of a group of even more hopelessly incompetent knights, and after joining the party his single-minded obsession with protecting Garnet leads to ridiculously and foolish conflicts with Zidane. Yeah sure if you sit through 30 hours of the game eventually all that bullshit is revealed to be a product of Steiner's insecurities. Which is interesting I guess, but fuck me if it wasn't obnoxious as hell getting to that point.

You don't understand why people might not like Quina, a fat gluttonous retard who speaks in broken language and takes almost nothing seriously in the entire story, to the point where you wonder if he even understands what the hell is happening? And he has goofy cartoon battle animations.

You don't understand why people might not like Eiko and her silly crush on Zidane, that maybe the story didn't need yet another childish character? We already have Vivi, and it's not like Eiko and Vivi have a particularly compelling relationship.

You don't understand why people might not like Amarant, yet another one-note character with a massively exaggerated character flaw on display in every scene?

You don't understand why people might be disappointed that the first seemingly mature character to join your party is a fucking ratwoman? And her story just disappears anyway.

You don't understand why people might have a problem with Beatrix's character doing a complete reversal for no real reason?

I like Zidane, Garnet, and Vivi. And I can appreciate the appeal of those characters and they're well-drawn for what they are. But christ this is one obnoxious cast and I don't blame anyone for not liking them.

>>5045607
And people still shit on VIII for having "one dimensional" characters.

>>5045610
I never finished VIII and played it too long ago to remember anything relevant. I also don't blame people for liking FF9's characters the story is overall very well done and Zidane and Garnet are really solid, but the rest of the cast can be extremely off-putting. Even Zidane's cockiness can get obnoxious at times. I think Blank might be my favorite character in the game though.

>>5045607

You don't see how people might like and even empathize with a down on his luck underdog who wants to the do the right thing but gets no respect from those around him? Anyone with a lick of common sense can see that his short comings will of course come to a head sooner rather than later because we're no impatient fuckwits who need him to go through his arc within an hour of meeting him.

>You don't understand why people might have a problem with Beatrix's character doing a complete reversal for no real reason?

What the fuck are you talking about. Beatrix's reversal was telegraphed well in advance. We just don't have the luxury of seeing her as often as we do Steiner but we do see how her actions weigh upon her.

>>5045610

The key difference is that while 9 does have some underwritten characters, a good bulk of them do get established personalities and stories. IN FF8 nobody but Squall gets shit. Seriously you know what the big payoff to Zell was at the end? He gets hotdogs. All we ever learn about Selphi is that she likes trains and Irvine wants to dick her.

steiner was based
he was dutiful and autistic

>>5045214
One time, back when I used Steiner, I had him set up with counter and some other stuff (i forget what else) and he went trance during the boss before Kuja at the end of the game and the boss kept attacking him and he kept countering and I killed him without doing anything lol.

>>5045679
you simply cannot fuck with the stein man

>>5045623
ff8 would be better if rinoa was ultimecia

in the end even squall and rinoa don't get development or resolution. the plot is like dawson's creek, the game

ff9 got the characters right, but the plot is basically dbz. a lot of the hate is deserved. if the plot had stayed about plucky adventurers straight to the end it'd have been a lot better

>>5045503
I need to play ff games again lol.
This details impressive

>>5045591

the only correct answer

He was a based and cringy. He was basically an anon with great combat skill and a sense of honor

>>5045687

>f the plot had stayed about plucky adventurers straight to the end it'd have been a lot better

this is something that always bothered me with jrpg. Why the fuck they always have to ruin the comfy clssic adventure setting with idiotic space-travel, black holes, evil gods, ecc?

>>5045470
It's because every single female character in this game kicks 15 different kinds of ass. The damsel isn't even really in distress here in the beginning which is usually how the story goes, she wants to GTFO and trained for it.

>>5045607
It sounds mostly like you can't get past surface traits.

>You don't understand why people might not like Eiko and her silly crush on Zidane, that maybe the story didn't need yet another childish character? We already have Vivi, and it's not like Eiko and Vivi have a particularly compelling relationship.

If what you got out of them is that they're just the token kids, you missed a lot. Vivi's storyline is about identity and mortality, and while he throws the occasional tantrum, it's understandable given that he finds out his race are war machines with extremely limited lifespans and that he may have murdered innocents before he "awakened." Eiko is the mirror instance of Garnet, born the same but into poverty instead.

It's called character development: you think this is muh traditional cliché/trope but then its twisted to develop deep character layers

>>5046502
Sounds heretical to me. Why would anyone want that kind of a story? Auteurs and their meme tropes, I swear

Steiner was always really nice to Vivi and immediately recognized his powers which I will always love him for, because Vivi is my favorite. I think as early as the airship crash site, Steiner refers to Vivi as "Master Vivi" ^_^

>>5045607
Wow it's like all the characters have an overarching theme going on only total morons would miss.

>y r vivi and eiko both smol???
>y is freya forgotten????

>>5046627
FF9 was good at those sub-relations you usually don't get between the secondary characters in JRPGs.

how anyone has a problem with this game is beyond me, it's the only FF that was written with true intelligence/empathy

>>5046490
I dunno. why do western games always have to end in confronting the evil guy and forgiving him, or confronting racism?

their culture has certain philosophical underpinnings that are just as annoyng to foreigners as our sjw nonsense is to others

but yeah ff9 definitely fell flat on its face

I like simpler plots, but the heroes of might and magic are a bit too campy for me. ff9 almost hits it right in terms of balance

>>5047074
>intelligently written
>plot is dbz
no fren. the characters are good, but not intelligent

ffx seems to be the most self aware. its the only plot that evokes actual empathy, and people hate it because it trashed the edgelord space monsters plot. yes, the voice acting made a huge difference, play the undub.

ff7 was really good for what it is too

>>5045214
based and redpilled, but IQ < 150

>>5047267
FFX is for reddit soys though

>>5047267
>plot is dbz
no matter how many times your dumb ass reposts this, it's not gonna magically become true.

>>5047280
ffx is the most popular in japan by far

>>5047285
>alien with superpowers and monkey tail whose hair goes funny when he powers up is sent to an alien planet to conquer it for his race
yeah, sure buddy

>>5047287
that doesn't invalidate the other 40 fucking hours of story in the game. that shit is hinted at throughout, but crops up only at the end, and by that point you've been gradually introduced to enough elements involving "something is going on out there" that it isn't particularly jarring.

>>5047287
How much onions do the Japenese consume? They seem very feminine and reddit-like so it's not surprising that they love ffx the most.

>>5047302
Based Japan taking one for the team exporting asian ladyboy newhalfs to the rest of the world.

>>5047302
japan is more or less the anti-reddit. btw the idea that somehow neckbeards and lanky pasty nerds playing ff9 are masculine is ridiculous

>>5047291
so if a plot slowly introduces gay anal buttfucking as the main plot point, slowly hinting and stretching your rectal cavity over time, that makes it a good plot?

yeah, naw, fuck off

>>5047267
"Intelligently written" means the writer is intelligent, not the characters.

>>5047320
It's neither then.

>>5047320
lmao

>>5047558
no need to doublepost

>>5047565
I'll doublepost however much I want

>>5047575
You could be learning a foreign language or honing a trade. Instead you shitpost.

>>5047580
Who says english is my first language, forasteiro

>>5047583
Ah, that explains it.

>>5047595
Gringo cabrón jajaja

>>5045214
>You don't want a hot lady knight in your party
>Have fucking Buzz Lightyear instead
FFIX coulda been a contender, but that mistake was enough to sink it.

>>5047617
If they gave you Beatrice you would be bashing the game for being fanservicey harem waifushit.
>but different anons
No you're not, you know you're fucking not. It's always like this, /v/ bitches that they are taking cute girls away from triple AAA games then turns around and bashes games with cute girls in it for being pandering.

>>5045414
There were various times when characters wouldn't do victory poses at the end of battle, but Stiener and Freya were the only ones I felt that had impact with. Everyone else's idle animation in battle just looks so bouncy and jolly. I guess it's fitting that they are the only ones taking the fighting seriously since they're the soldiers.

>>5047268
What does this even mean?

>that one kid who adored Vivi and turned out to be gay

What was his name? We all knew one.

>>5045623
>You don't see how people might like and even empathize with a down on his luck underdog who wants to the do the right thing but gets no respect from those around him?
Of course I see how some people could like him. But I also see how people might prefer their JRPG party to contain fewer annoying fuckups.

>What the fuck are you talking about. Beatrix's reversal was telegraphed well in advance. We just don't have the luxury of seeing her as often as we do Steiner but we do see how her actions weigh upon her.
You don't go from genocide and laughing with contempt at the poor helpless fucks you're crushing under your boot to a bastion of virtue just after one minor moping session. To call that a redemption arc is just stupid and no not much of it happens off screen. You rationalize away the stupidity because Beatrix has big tits and a pretty face.

>>5048204
ff9 is a mishmash of great and terrible ideas

steiner is a cool foil, funny, and it is fun both chasing after zidane as steiner and running away from him as zidane

like a little mini tom and jerry plot inside an rpg. I can't think of any game that has ever done it better

but the writing towards the mid section begins to really, really fucking fall apart. design by committee syndome. the committee probably didn't care enough about the beginning to fuck it up

>>5046496
>It sounds mostly like you can't get past surface traits.
It's not like I can give you a fully detailed fucking review and analysis in a few words about every single character in the game. And it's not like the characters in this game other than Zidane, Garnet and maybe Vivi really have much doing for them beyond their surface traits, in spite of the massive amounts of dialog you have to sit through.

>If what you got out of them is that they're just the token kids,
I never said they were the "token kids." In fact I'd probably have less of a problem with it if they were. The problem is that there are no main characters in this game who are NOT childish and immature except maybe Zidane and Garnet, who are portrayed as very youthful teenagers.

It's fine if you're looking for a story full of childish characters, but the previous FF games were all more balanced. I find Relm obnoxious too, but at least in that game the rest of the characters behave like reasonable adults, so by the time she shows up she's just comic relief and a side story.

>>5046650
So you're saying you enjoy stories that treat you like a moron when trying to convey its themes?

>>5048214
He is a foil. A stooge even. Personally, I would have preferred wisecracking, irreverent Zidane to have been paired with a serious, gravitas-having knight whose internal conflicts were more subtle.

>>5047620
But nobody complains about Freya, and she's not even sexy.

>>5048215
personally, I enjoyed the fact that everyone acted like they were out of a saturday morning cartoon.

one, it was refreshing. two, it was WELL WRITTEN up until the point they decided to try and become grimdark.

it would've been entirely possible for them to transition from the happy go lucky plot to a serious plot based on the foundation laid in the beginning (conflict of responsibility vs youth (steiner vs zidane), or responsibility vs justice (steiner vs the queen))

the other ffs are hardly well written, with the exception of large parts of 7 and 10

the biggest problem for 9 is that the tone shift is unjustified, poorly done, not as entertaining as the first half, and frankly, fucking stupid in most parts

crono trigger managed to have serious parts while still being light hearted and funny. ff9 fucked up by not being more like crono trigger, not by being funny. it is legitimately funny

>>5048218
that's not funny though. they were clearly aiming for funny. and it worked.

if you want to see their attempt at gravitas, look at the disaster the plot turned into when kuja started spouting his fedora tier lectures. its a fucking trainwreck, and NO ONE liked it

the villains have to be grounded in the story. sephiroth worked because he fit into the setting perfectly, both as a reflection of the creepy genetic science, and of the protagonist. same for seymour, he is a reflection of both the world, and a reflection of tidus/yuna and their fucked up relationship to their parents

the serious moments of ff9 have no connection to either. its fucking gay. a villain like kefka would have been more appropriate

>>5047931
It's just a meme you'll see in places like /tv/. Basically Steiner is cool, but not the brightest character.

>>5045214
I just realized something about Steiner's face.

>>5045214
He is the most based character of any final fantasy

>>5048261
damn

>>5048223
>it was WELL WRITTEN
I'm not disputing that. I am responding to this comment:
>Absolutely cannot fathom the people who dislike the characters in 9.
It's not about appreciation of the writing quality of the story, it's about liking the characters. And I find it very easy to pick out unlikable traits for these characters, especially given its status as a Final Fantasy JRPG.
>that's not funny though. they were clearly aiming for funny. and it worked.
It certainly can be funny, though maybe not constant try-hard 3 humor. I mean yeah people loved "The Three Stooges" and if that's the height of comedy for you you'll love FF9.
> up until the point they decided to try and become grimdark.
Right, because they completely failed to establish any seriousness to the story before that point, so it seems incongruous. Even the disasters that happen before that, like the attacks on Lindblum and Cleyra, don't have an emotional impact that matches the stunning visuals, because the tone is so unserious and detached.

To look at another lighthearted, comedic Final Fantasy game that doesn't fail at this, look at FF5. Much of the game is very lighthearted and tongue-in-cheek, but the characters are still serious enough so when the story gets serious it doesn't feel fucking weird.

>>5048261
Similar characters too - Gruff but goodhearted arms of the law who keep getting their days ruined by a dickass thief.

>>5048261
>>5048572

I think this kind of character is somehow based, in some part at least, on a character from the traditional japan teather

Steiner went from being a stuffy overly protective wet blanket obsessed with his duty to protect garnet to a true bro and even develops a friendship and becomes a bit of a father figure(if not at the very least her most trusted companion) to garnet

It took awhile, but his character development was one of the best i the franchise

>>5045214
I hated the overly cutesy goofy fat character designs that started becoming prevalent in this era

>>5048782
Could you post some other examples? Because it seemed to me we were still well within the EDGE era of character design at the time and FF9 went against that grain.

>>5048568
as I said before, the seriousness in ff9 is incongruous because the serious content has no attachment at all to the other elements of the story, not because the characters aren't serious

zidane is a clone baby super saiyan sent to the earth to murder all of humanity? wow, that was totally foreshadowed and totally not disconnected from the plot. zidane being serious wouldn't make this less fucking retarded

I think the reason vivis 'serious' arc resonates more than the other ones is that it is clearly tied into the story structure. it has less to do with vivi being a serious character (he is used as a punching bag and his own adoptive father was going to cook him) and more that it makes sense in the context of the world that was built. cleyra was dumb because we had no established link to cleyra. when kuja assaults alexandria I thought it was cool.

garnets past was kind of well done too

just as an e.g. a better 'serious' arc for zidane would have been something like, he loses garnets trust because he is always acting like a scumbag. when he comes to that realization, he now has an in world motivation to act more serious and win back her trust. (they attempted this a bit early on, and it was GOOD, but then they drop it) instead, we got 'alien clone baby super saiyan," which they thought was better than 'reformed playboy learns to actually care about a person. probably because people like you keep insisting for '2serious8me' stories

>>5048568
fuck me this thread is making me redownload the game. as much as I hate the 55serious600u second half, you people's incoherent whining is making me realize we'll never get another game remotely like it because publishers cater to your mindset. your mindset is what made them ruin the second half of 9 in the first place

I hope there's a texture fix

>>5048868
> the seriousness in ff9 is incongruous because the serious content has no attachment at all to the other elements of the story, not because the characters aren't serious
It's off right from the very beginning, when Queen Brahne is firing cannons to shoot down the stage ship carrying her own daughter (as far as we know). That's coming right off the Loony Toons chase with Steiner crashing into the tower, and then the scene itself is undercut by the goofy "Steiner doesn't notice the bomb" fight.

>incoherent whining
Get a grip. I've clearly identified specific gripes about specific characters which I personally do not like in spite of the fact that the writing isn't actually bad. And I've even admitted that >>5048775 is correct and Steiner does actually develop into a character I like, eventually, but that I really don't enjoy the long and obnoxious journey it takes to get there.

>fuck me this thread is making me redownload the game
Great, have fun with that. The music is some of the best in the series. My dislike for the characters and tone, which is very much personal taste, is really the least of my complaints with FF9. My real problem with FF9 is how badly the gameplay suffers for the sake of visuals and storytelling. But this thread is about Steiner the Stooge Knight.

>>5048868
>your mindset is what made them ruin the second half of 9 in the first place
Also lol at this. Final Fantasy 9 is what killed the series for me. If they have been pandering to "my type" since then, that's fucking news to me.

>>5048919
>loony toons chase scene
which is a setpiece. which is funny. and also appropriate, as the beginning of the game is framed around a heist, a heist conducted by thieves, and, to my recollection, the only thing in the entire game you ever actually steal

it is entirely appropriate, it is strong narrative framing, it is entertaining, and strongly strongly sets all of the character motivations

>characters
I agree the char development in the second half is off. it was bad enough to nearly ruin the game for me in the half a decade after it came out.

the problem here is your 'fixes' involve nothing regarding the structure of the story, the framing of the characters, or the ludicrous ending of the plot.

instead, you just want it to be more grim. please, that's not a fix

>catering
they ARE catering to you. or at least were. look at how fucking grim the series has been since after x. you got your hyper realistic visuals and over the top seriousness.

that didn't work. no one liked it. so then they turned the franchise into a virtual kpop game. kind of like a reverse idolmaster. congrats. you hated comic relief in an obvious comic relief character (god forbid) and instead we got kpop

>>5048921
just to note, 7 was actually really fucking funny. the translation didn't help convey some of it well. there are more moments than I can even point out in a single post of funny things ruined by the translation.

but square assumed it was the grimdark that sold. and they are probably correct

>>5048868
>I hope there's a texture fix
for?

>>5048963
>which is funny
I didn't find it funny at all. Humor is very subjective.
>grimdark
You keep using that word. The only mainline FF content that I really think is appropriate to call grimdark is FF7 and Midgar in particular. Even the World of Ruin in FF6 isn't grimdark. It's just a post-apocalyptic setting, characters are still full of hope and goodness living under the oppression of Kefka. Final Fantasy games nearly uniformly lack the cynicism and amorality typically associated with Grimdark.
>they ARE catering to you. or at least were. look at how fucking grim the series has been since after x. you got your hyper realistic visuals and over the top seriousness.
You have to be kidding. FFXII is more serious than the rest but considering it's set in IVALICE, which is the one setting in all of Final Fantasy actually conceived as a fully grimdark setting, it's rather bright and full of bunny girls. XIII's story and setting is fucked in so many ways you can criticize it from any angle you want. Lightning was supposed to be "Female Cloud" which is a clue right from the start that there's a distinct lack of creative vision there. XV is a road trip with a boy band. There's nothing at all grimdark about "I've come up with a new recipe!"

>>5048952
>involve nothing regarding the structure of the story, the framing of the characters, or the ludicrous ending of the plot.
The topic was the characters. I don't think the story structure is nearly as bad as you seem to think it is. Most of my problems with the story structure are in the part of the story you love, and my problems with it have to do with the way it interferes with the actual gameplay (you are playing a game, right?). In fact I think the ending of FF9 is one of the strongest in the entire series. You have Zidane actually struggling and experiencing some real growth from the "you're not alone" sequence through to the ending and emotionally satisfying final redemption of Kuja. Despite the fact that Zidane spends most of the story with Mary Sue levels of moral reliability, this ending sequence is credible and engaging. Then the story concludes by coming full circle with a joyous and entertainingly well-executed reunion between Zidane and Garnet.

Also I'm not sure you realize how much of FF9 is deliberately a pastiche of recycled tropes from previous Final Fantasy games.

>>5045214
the game was cringe.

>>5045214
damn i guess all the edgelords get tired of 6? 9 is garbo

>>5048217
Enlighten us how you came to this conclusion.

If your final party wasn't Vivi, Steiner and Quina, you don't know SHIT about good characters.

>>5050883
Me:
>yet another one-note character with a massively exaggerated character flaw on display in every scene
You:
>Wow it's like all the characters have an overarching theme going on only total morons would miss.

I am arguing that heavy-handed character development that "only total morons would miss" is the actual problem with the story.

Am I wrong to conclude that you are arguing that heavy-handed character development that only total morons would miss is what makes the story good?

>>5045214
Steiner is the best and only good thing about FF9. He's based.

When FF9 released I was immediately turned off by zidane looking like a girl monkey thing. After Steiners introduction I was hooked till the end. He is absolutley based

>>5051721
Kino

>>5045214
Steiner was awesome. Annoying at first, but in my older age I understand him a lot more.
A true man. Motherfucker cuts through enemies like a laser.

>>5045607
I understand it completely. Most people are fucktards. Subtle things are beyond their senses.

>>5045214
Based

>>5051928
>FF9
>subtle
no

>>5052934
Go play Call of Duty while you blast some Nickelback, my friend. Seems to be your thing.

>>5045214
he starts out cringeworthy, but grows to be absolutely based.

>>5052969
You do realize your inability to properly follow this conversation is not exactly helping your credibility.

There is objectively nothing wrong with liking Nickelback.

I wish I could like 9 more but honestly the final boss ruined the whole game for me.

>Literal definition of "Space flea out of nowhere"
>first turn, inflicts every debuff available on your whole team
>Have fun

the problem for me with this game is the gameplay. The loading is absolutely atrocious. Every random encounter takes forever.

Can someone shed light on how steal probably is calculated in the game? For instance, in the opening battle with Baku, sometimes I steal the mage masher immediately, but every once in a while I’ll get stuck in what feels like an infinite loop of failed steals and I have to restart the game. Why is that?

>>5053401
Yeah it takes like 5 minutes per random battle. I enjoyed ff9 but I wouldn't play it again without being able to speed up the battles

>>5053493
From what I remember, the game makes two checks. First check:

Zidane's RNG mod + Spirit + Level > Enemy's RNG mod + level.

If the first check fails, you fail stealing. If it passes, the game does a second check.

Each enemy had four item slots of stealable goods, which have a 256/256 chance, a 64/256, a 32/256, and a 1/256. Each enemy has all four slots, but some slots for enemies might be empty. So, the game will first roll to see if you get the item in the first slot. If there is an item listed for the first slot, you get it. If there's no item, the game rolls for the second slot, and so on. If you have stolen everything you can from an enemy, the game will tell you "nothing to steal".

>>5053531
I made an error, the third slot is 16/256 chance, not 32/256. Also iirc I think Baku's Mage Masher is in the third slot.

>>5053384
How the hell can you can dismiss a 30-40 hour game entirely, just because of the final boss?

>>5053764
The most important thing of an RPG is, you know, kinda, the plot? Kuja was a perfect final boss up until there and then, just for the sake of "challenge? Necron appears out of nowhere with no relevance of the plot and is the most unfair final boss FF has ever had.

>>5053817

Necron is the manifest of Kuja's fear of death.

>>5053384
You missed the point of Necron.
Necron IS death. Literally the force of death trying to claim the party and life itself after they fought Kuja and broke the crystal.
Hence the name NECROn.

People who think Necron comes out of nowhere totally missed the entire point of the story of the game. Fate and death.

>based
>cringe
>>>/v/

>>5054184
Still has no purpose

>>5053817
Spoilers: the most important thing of any game is the gameplay. If you like a good story read a book o play a visual novel

>>5053817
>The most important thing of an RPG is, you know, kinda, the plot?
Even if you're dumb enough to think plot is more important than gameplay, Necron barely changes the plot at all. If the game has a good plot, it's a good plot with or without Necron.

Necron doesn't even really undercut the culmination of Kuja's arc with Zidane. The very worst you can say about it is that Necron isn't a part of the story, which really isn't saying that much given there's so much of the game that isn't part of the main story either.

Furthermore, if you're familiar with earlier Final Fantasy games, which is important given how heavily FF9 draws on them for inspiration, you'll know that "conceptual" final bosses were common. Final battles often involved a conflict against a physical manifestation of one of the main themes of the story. Zeromus, for example, has that quote as he dies:

> I will not perish so long as there is evil in the hearts of people
He's literally saying he's a manifestation of evil in people, which is fitting since the story is about redemption and conquering the evil in yourself.

Necron's manifestation is less obvious but that's partly because FF9 is a much longer and more complex story than FF4. But it seems to be something like death or the fear of death or something like that.

>the most unfair final boss FF has ever had.
Please whine more. One of my least favorite aspects of FF9 is the passive ability system, but it is what it is. If you didn't go into the fight prepared to counter status effects, you'll have a rough time. Then next time, prepare appropriately and you should have no problem.

>>5054761
It's another boss to beat.

>>5054995
>jrpg
>gameplay

Who's dumb now? Or should i tell you why every jrpg with actual good gameplay is today a niche game? Games like Digimon World, Legend of Mana and Bof: Dragon Quarter have actual game design outside of repetitive battles, that is iterated and fun, but the truth is they're too hardcore for the average storyfag.

>>5055161
>Who's dumb now?
You for thinking that you're making a point. Yes. JRPG fucking gameplay. Just because you're too stupid to understand it doesn't mean it's not there.

>Or should i tell you why every jrpg with actual good gameplay is today a niche game?
How about we presume the gameplay standard is "FF9" since that's the game under discussion. Can you even tie your shoes? Holy shit what a retard.

>>5045607
Quina is the most sober and serious character in the game and constantly moms the baby emotions of every other party member and repairs their selfish insecurities without ever drawing attention to it or belittling them

Quina is my favorite character in this game

>>5047313
did someone touch your ass anon

>>5054761

This is true and the reason why its one of the biggest wtf's in FF's history.

>>5054493
Worked

>>5055224
Yes

>>5045214
super based, but "nufourchan" will aslways say he is cringe. fuck you fuck your mothers and fuck your faggot nigger dads too!

>>5054296

Kek, imagine if when you die you have the chance to fight against death and if you win you can came back to life. It sounds stupid

>>5054296
Nobody saw this but you

I know what "based" means in this context, but… what is its etymology? I have always wondered.

>>5045470
>Using pedophilia as an excuse to continue his fealty

>>5059287
It's ni***rspeak for awesome.

>>5059308
thats not what based means at all, retard.

>>5053384

This triggers me so much, what is wrong with people who don't like fucking end-game "oh shit" moments. You beat Kuja and think you're on the way to the credits, then the game gives you more content.

I mean what is the real difference between this and Final Ultimecia or Safer Sephiroth, they're all fuck-off huge monster things. But I think FF9 actually alludes to Necron because you literally kill the World Tree or some shit which means Necron has to swoop by to end existence

>>5053817

If there was a game about flying to the moon to kill the big bad evil guy, and after you kill his 3 forms, a big-ass alien flies by and tries to kill you for trespassing on his moon, how would you feel?

He's basically Zenigata and Zidane is Lupin III.

Just started replaying this last night because of this thread. Obviously Steiner is great, for reason already stated.

however
>talk to Alleyway Jack, he'll teach you how to play cards
That is a fucking lie. He gives you at best a brief overview. What do the markings on the cards actually mean? How are Card Battles calculated? Figure it out idiot because Jack's not telling you.

>>5060136
and by markings on the cards I mean the OOPO shit, not the arrows obviously. I'm still winning but I'm not entirely sure why. This shit's no Triple Triad.

>>5053384
>"Space flea out of nowhere"

The "schtik" of almost every FF game.

>>5054296
nah, necron was fucking gay

>>5045214
this game sucks dick other than the FMVs / cinematic experience or it, but why are there so many final fantasy threads

>>5060136
>barely tells you how to play
>forces you into a game you'll probably lose
>forever have a 0/0/1 ratio until I'm forced to enter a tournament later in the game

>>5060547
Well, he is a petty thief. and more obviously

>>5045442

When I was a kid I had this crappy Waldo game for the Genesis. There was a stage set in a medieval time with a bunch of generic Knights fighting giants. It's always been funny to me how "generic medieval knight" seems to call to mind a certain kind of sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6pPoklM9hk

>>5053401
Iirc you can speed that up on later Playstations

>>5054296
It's not that people don't understand this. It's that we think it's silly as fuck.

>>5045871
If you expect "impressive detail" from FF stories, you will be very disappointed. The less you expect, the more you'll enjoy them. Pre-FFX writing has lots of heart, but is really silly and amateurish all around.

>>5045610
Bitch, FFVIII is miles worse.

>>5060687
If anything, I think it got more silly and amateurish after FFX

>>5046650
>Freya gets forgotten in her own game

Truly this is suffering

>>5048853
>he is used as a punching bag and his own adoptive father was going to cook him

wut

>>5048568
FF5 is also an odd example. Love FF5, but Lenna and Krile are worthless characters. Bartz is arguably another one.

>>5045214
Based. Pretty much all of FF IX characters were because they had charm instead of trying to be 90s edgy. That aged well.

I like how FF9 it did a better love story than FF8.

>>5061227
There was nothing silly or amateur about FF12

>>5061256
Remember how hated it was at the time, though. You had a real divide between people who thought 9 was a return to form and those who thought it was 100 steps backward.

>>5061280
Everything after the first 5 hours is amateurish

Balthier being an ex-Judge is dumb as all fuck

>>5061282
That seems awfully subjective.

>>5061265
FF8 basically completely drops the ball at the end of disk 2.

>>5061294
>>5061265
The problem with FF8's love story is there's no particular reason that they fall in love

>>5061297
Rinoa's relationship with Seifer is a lot deeper and you are ACTIVELY REMINDED OF IT

>>5061297

Right. At the end of disc 2 is when Squall starts to warm up to her. In the sense of "hey, maybe this girl is not so annoying".

Presumably disc 3 is where they fall in love.

Except they gave up and he's just MADLY IN LOVE the moment disc 3 starts, with no explanation whatsoever.

Squall dies when he gets the icicle through his chest.

>>5061227
It's gotten substantially more silly, but somewhat less amateurish. 13 was a confused mess, 12 was of course a fiasco of what could have been a great game, but 14 and 15, while profoundly derivative, are very professionally written.
(By "professionally" I mean they finally hired some shitty TV scriptwriters instead of trying to write humongous scripts themselves.)

>>5061282
Balthier used to be a judge? Holy shit, that's stupid as fuck. I quit playing after 25 hours or so, when it became obvious that the game is a clusterfuck instead of the "Vagrant Story on the FFT Scale" that we all expected back when we didn't know better.

>>5061317
Actually, Squall dies when he gets the dick through his anus.

>>5061334
I believe that's 12's plot had the potential to be *amazing*. They even had all the pieces set up exactly right in the first couple hours. Then they just dropped the ball.

Vann going from street rat to seasoned sky pirate would have made him the best MC in the series.

15's story plan was completely mangled, to the point where it's somewhat pointless to discuss.

>>5061317
>>5061346
Actually, Squall dies in the opening movie when Seifer cuts his head open.

>>5061297
>>5061304
It's actually pretty realistic to how teenagers fall in love. They just fall in love jsut like so. The real problem is that it just doesn't make a good story, let a lone a star-crossed lovers type of story.

>>5061347
In other words, it had the potential to be a Matsuno game (a charming clusterfuck of an overcomplication of a gameplay and a great fucking story) but instead was completed by ordinary Squeenix staff and turned out exactly like this sounds.

>>5061349
>>5061346
So we all agree Squall dies
good

>>5061356
I don't know if I would have liked a Matsuno story. FFXII needed fewer factions/complications and more focus on character-driven story.

>>5061347
>15's story plan was completely mangled, to the point where it's somewhat pointless to discuss.
I thought that them cutting out almost everything nonessential actually did the script a TREMENDOUS FUCKING FAVOUR. It could have been talking in circles for tens of hours about the same fuckign thing like 13, but instead it skips stupid stuff and always gets to the point almost immediately. I liked it.

>>5061367
Matsuno wrote fine characters, no? Vagrant Story et al. Whatsitsface--the Crimson Shroud game. He's not the "politicool" writer some make him out to be. Themes are political, but stories are character-driven.

>>5061371
If that's an argument for "they did they best with what they had at that point", well, sure, but it's still not a good showing.

>>5061376
No, I'm saying that it's one of the best scripts in Squeenix history by a long shot. It's far from "good" or anything, but miles upon miles upon miles better than something like any of the XIII games.

>>5061385
I guess I disagree on that. In terms of how the lines read, yes. In terms of the overall story presentation, I think it's horrendous.

>>5061390
My argument is it's infinitely less horrendous that XIII and way more substantial than XIV. Compared to XII, it's much faster and less circular.

>>5061281
They had a point to be fair, i guess with going from traditional rpg tropes in 2d games from futuristic in 3D, then back to traditional could seem like a step back. certainly wasnt though

>>5059287
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq-jPa2-gdE

It was funny for a while for people to pretend to be fans of his music but I don't really know what happened, the jokes just kind of fizzled out. Searching up his name on Youtube, a lot of his videos seem to be dating to 2011. I guess he stopped being relevant because he stopped producing music.

>>5061281
I'm part of this with my friend to this day. His first FF was 8 and mine 7. Yet I thought that 9 was absolutely lovable, while he thought it was absolutely retarded. his favourite JRPG ended up being Xenogears and Parasite Eve, while mine Chrono Trigger and later Dragon Quest.

>>5061364
Squall dies for our sins, yes.

>>5061239
They aren't obnoxious and annoying, though. They just aren't deep, which isn't as big of a deal when the story is as quickly paced as it is in all of the SNES games. Certainly you can debate the virtues of the longer, more nuanced style of storytelling in the PSX games vs the more succinct, cartoony style of the SNES games. But it's hard to argue that the PSX style is going to get you deeper characters most of the time. Deeper doesn't mean more interesting or likable, though.

Also I'm not sure where this "Lenna is a garbage character" meme has come from. Lenna is basically a parody of selfless feminine compassion. She has a distinct personality which drives actions that have consequences to the story. I found her to be rather funny. As for Cara("Krile"), I'll take her being boring for Galuf being awesome.

>Bartz is arguably another one.
He's just an everyman, which isn't a huge sin for the protagonist of a JRPG, especially for the lighter, faster style of 90s JRPG.

>>5061281
Yeah and both sides were wrong.

>>5061407
where is the lower half of her body

>>5061415
The is lying straight and camera is pointed at her. The lower half just goes down into a hole in the floor where a fat man is a-rapin'.

>>5061421
you're lying
she's a half-woman

>>5061408
I'm not saying they're garbage, I'm saying they're extremely thinly written, one-dimensional characters.

Lenna is a compassion-box who has no character development or depth.
Krile is a plot device girl who can do everything, who also has no character depth.

Faris has a point of reflection on her own character and choosing her own path in life. Galuf regains his memories and needs to balance his regal responsibilities with his devotion to his friends. Bartz I guess gets mad that one time, but as you said he's a goofy MC so he gets a pass. Even Gilgamesh has an arc with great payoff.

I love the heck out of V, but I can't really defend Lenna or Krile. As you said, they're not bad, they're just utterly unremarkable.

>>5061421
I think I read a doujin about that

>>5061429
>thinly written, one-dimensional characters.
in a JRPG?

no way!

>>5061446
Yes, we want characters that at least have some depth, growth, or internal conflict.

>>5061450
Yeah they usually do it's just not a lot or particularly deep

>>5061452
And Lenna and Krile don't even pass that low bar

>>5061429
I might have been unclear earlier. I didn't intend to hold up FF5 as an example of superior-in-every-way storytelling to FF9. The point is that the main characters in FF5 aren't obnoxious and don't undermine the story, even though the story has a similar lighthearted/less-serious tone than other Final Fantasy games.

Yes, FF9 characters are deeper than FF5 characters. But that's not saying much given that FF9 has 6+ more hours of cutscenes and dialog than FF5. FF5 is written in a manner that allows you to fill in the blanks with whatever you want and is more plot-focused than character-focused. FF9 isn't, so any lack of depth is more frustrating. Amarant and Eiko probably wouldn't bother me as much as supporting characters in a story told in FF5's style. But in FF9, they take center stage for their personal side stories which are told in great detail with lots of dialog and cutscenes. The annoying attitudes of both characters long overstay their welcome as far as I'm concerned.

And even then, Krile, the child character in FF5, is still 14 years old. The other main characters are 19-20, and Galuf is 60.

Zidane and Garnet are 16. Vivi is effectively 9. Eiko is 6. Steiner is 33 but acts like a child until late in the game, and Amarant is 28 but acts like a sullen, rebellious teenager of maybe 17. Freya is the only reasonably mature character in the entire main cast, and has a relatively minor role (and is a furry). Quina also has a coming-of-age arc. FF9 is just a far more child-heavy cast than any other game in the series except possibly 3 (which I haven't played in 2 decades). This isn't automatically a problem but not everyone is going to enjoy it.

>>5047302
Japan is a nationalist nation with a strong work ethic, its as far from Reddit as you can get

>>5045214
I've completed 7, hated 8 since I was a kid, but I'd be willing to try 9. Whats the best way to play it if you dont own the old console?

>>5047302
despite the fact that the japanese do actually eat a lot of onions irl their society is actually extremely structured and resistant to change and basically super conservative with really strict penalties for stepping out of line in basically any way

you will be openly mocked and shamed for your differences and punished for standing out unless you are literally superhuman

>>5061725
PsN or Steam

>>5061779
this kind of sounds feminine when you put it like that

>>5061779
>>5062102
it's because they evolved as rice farmers which takes organization and tolerance for living together in close quarters.

>>5062102
well a man is definitely at his bitchiest when he's whining about the lifestyle choices of others because it might mildly inconvenience him in his imagination or gives him strange peepee feelings

>>5061303
how """"deep"""" was it?

>>5062843
Balls deep

>>5061725
Steam

>>5063397
nice

>>5062843
hmm

>>5045214
Hes that shit stain you get on your nutsack after fucking a dead hobo in the ass.

>>5062246
Did you describe faggots and trannies?

>>5061725
fucking emulate it so you can frameskip through the endless load times and easy battles

>>5045623
>gets no respect from those around him?
Now I wanna see a shop of Rodney Dangerfield dressed as Steiner.

>>5066661
this is not funny go back and start over

>>5062246
Wow you got hyper defensive over that anons simple observation, and your copypasted Reddit response was pretty shoehorned.

I couldn't imagine living life like you do.

The ability system in this game is fucking annoying

>>5060547
>>5060138
In the town of Dali right after you escape the Evil Forest, you can read a note in the local shop. It says the first numbers indicates attack power, and the last 2 digits indicate defense. The 2nd character (M/P/X/???) are still a mystery.

>>5067334
I assume they mean Magic/Physical and X means null

>>5062008
>>5064472
>>5066260
Thanks, anons

>>5046492
>It's because every single female character in this game kicks 15 different kinds of ass.

>>5068078
>freya
>beatrix
Even Dagger and Eiko are badass.

>>5046492
lmao

>>5068081
Beatrix has great stats and abilities, but storywise is one of the worst characters in the entire franchise.

>>5058301
and ill be touching it again tonight

>>5045457
Freya serves no purpose past Cleyra

>>5047943
me

My issue with FF9 is it has a tendecy to drop plotlines completely.

>>5061429
Lenna became a lot more likeable after I finished Phoenix tower. There's a lot of other cool optional scenes in 5.

>>5068741
Does she do anything after Phoenix tower?

>>5068742
Suck nigger dick

>>5068979
Based

>>5068259
It isn't much of a storyline thing.

Outside of job system games where anyone can be anything, IX has the most female characters as living nukes. Max Dragon's Crest, summons, etc..

>>5045214
FFIX is shit

>>5060594
love my megadrive but lord that game doesn't show its sound capabilities in the best light

>>5070926
based opinion

He's a Steiner bro! best character in the game.

>Tranny Buzz Lightyear

He/she/it was legitimately the reason I steered clear of the game.

>>5072686
ironically, the fact he chases the MC around like bugs bunny/yosemite sam is one of the best parts of the game and it goes to shit as soon as they drop it

>>5072686
You are an idiot

>>5072692
THANK YOU

If you did not like 9. You hate fun.

>>5053384
The most retarded of complaints when it comes to IX

>>5058914
>, imagine if when you die you have the chance to fight against death and if you win you can came back to life. It sounds stupid
Absolute pleb

>>5067726
>>5066260
Better yet get the PS4 version so you an turn off random battles and play at x3 speed

It's been some years since I've played FFIX but did Freya's character arc begin and end during the game? Because I don't see the bad in a character having their character arc play out and that being that. It's more than characters like Quistis got. Having some fatiguing nearly game-long character arc doesn't make you a likable or good character, just look at Vivi

>>5045214
Based.

He had morals and standards he withheld throughout the game, but also was more than able to ditch old believes and adapt to a rapidly changing environment. He's the clash between tradition, honor and servitude, and the passion of his desires and needs. He's a good character with a very interesting and underrated development.