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/vr/ - Retro Games


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File: 50 KB, 640x480, Ralph.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4974012 No.4974012 [Reply] [Original]

Why was this on the PS1?

>> No.4974015

>>4974012
The same reason a lot of sprite games were.

The CD was cheap as fuck to produce.

The system could actually do sprites (n64 was leagues more powerful and did actual 3d but didn't have actual sprite capabilities).

sony regulations were pretty slack.

A lot of games were in development in the early 90's but needed a little too much for a SNES/32x. Those games were scrapped and reworked on for PS1.

>> No.4974027

Asiago Cheese bagels? Yummy!

>> No.4974032

Because everything did

>> No.4974045

>>4974015
Plus Sony was much more open about having a giant variety of games on the PlayStation. Unlike Nintendo that wanted to focus almost entirely on 3D.

>> No.4974052

>>4974045
>>4974015
Not sure about technical specifications, but I've read countless times that the Playstation can't do actual native 2D either, and that the sprites on games like SOTN are flat polygons with textures on them.
On the other hand, Nintendo 64 had games like Project Wonder J2 which IMO have some of the best 2D of 5th gen, but that one wasn't localized.
Sony also initially had a policy of "no 2D" in the west, when Bernie Stolar was in SCEA.

>> No.4974057

>>4974052
What about stuff like Wild Arms or Alundra though? I think polygons were the PS1's strength but it seems like it was a pretty capable 2D console as well.

>> No.4974058

>>4974057
I'm not sure, to me it looks 2D enough, just saying what I've read. Either way if it looks 2D, it's 2D to me, but apparently it's flat polygons and textures, not "real" 2D sprites like the older consoles did.
As for PS1's strength, I believe its actual forte was the video codec, in terms of 3D it was acceptable for late 94 but had a lot of issues. But it had better FMVs than any other console until the Dreamcast.

>> No.4974060

>"no 2D" in the west,
love this meme. The truth is there was little 2d games that would make you woah as most were just meh

>> No.4974061

>>4974052
It doesn't have hardware support for tile based graphics. It can do it all in software just like the N64 or PC can.

>> No.4974065

>>4974015
>>4974052
I don't think OP implied that it should have been on N64, but on Saturn.

>> No.4974502

>>4974012
Why not?

>> No.4974515

>>4974502
>>4974502
>>4974502
Apparently for some being weaker at one thing means you shouldnt even try it

>> No.4974523

>>4974015
>actual sprite capabilities
I mean it did... but an 8 Meg standard cartridge for a while plus the VI Filter made it a bade choice.

>> No.4974595
File: 124 KB, 640x480, 53472-Cotton_Original_-_Fantastic_Night_Dreams_(Japan)-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4974595

What PS1 game has the smallest file size? Pic related is 1MB

>> No.4975179

>>4974052
>but I've read countless times that the Playstation can't do actual native 2D either
It can. Saturn has best 2D, but PS1 has some spriting abilities and they're used in Ralph's Adventure.
The N64 is the console that had the shittiest 2D.

>and that the sprites on games like SOTN are flat polygons with textures on them.
That's one way to do 2D but not the only one.

>>4974052
>>4974060
>"no 2D" in the west
That part was true.
A lot of developers complained about it publically (SNK)
It's confirmed to be the direct reason why planned versions of Rapid Reload and Popolocrois never released.

Some of it was Bernie Stolar's influence but it continued even after his departure (Sony was rejecting Sakura Taisen as late as 2006 on PSP because "it's not a real game") but they were willing to make exceptions for political reasons.

They published Beyond the Beyond because it was Camelot fresh off their ugly breakup with Sega and they were more than happy to stick it up to them, and bought US rights for all the console ports of Metal Slug so Sega wouldn't use them... and then never released most of them.
When Konami and Capcom used MGS / RE and later Mega Man Legends as bargaining chips, they "unclogged" the approval pipeline for SoTN and the Mega Man X games.

>>4974595
Anything that has the gimmick of playing off the console's RAM (like Vib Ribbon which uses audio cd information to generate levels) will be small.

>> No.4975183

>>4975179
>Anything that has the gimmick of playing off the console's RAM (like Vib Ribbon which uses audio cd information to generate levels) will be small.
Sure, but pretty much all games use red book audio which blows up their size. Which other games are as small as cotton original without ripping resources?

>> No.4975227

>>4974052
they probably didn't want a repeat of the atari jaguar and 3do fiasco where a heap of old 16 bit games with little improvement were dumped on the console, many people at the time still liked 2d it was just the console war nerd who gave a crap

>> No.4975318
File: 27 KB, 126x99, cottonbestest.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4975318

>>4974595
Eh, the disc is tiny for a PlayStation game, but it's more than that. Even compressed it's slightly over 2MB, but the image itself is actually 30ish.

You're probably gonna be looking for something in the "Nice Price Series" or "Simple 1500" catalog.

>> No.4975321
File: 2.15 MB, 480x360, Hover racing yaroze.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4975321

>>4975179
>>4974595
>Anything that has the gimmick of playing off the console's RAM
Net Yaroze games.

>> No.4975325

>>4974060
>love this meme.
Yeah, I'm pretty fond of reality, too.

>> No.4975837
File: 1.67 MB, 1801x800, IK+.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4975837

>>4974595
AFAIK the PS1 Port of International Karate+ was just 2 MB big. Whoever thought a port of an old 8-Bit game was a good idea?

>> No.4975892

>>4974061
>>4974052
One of the PS1's hardware commands is to draw a sprite. Technically behind the scenes it's drawing a screen space aligned polygon but it behaves a bit differently and for programmers there's no actual difference with sprites except you can't do any scanline-based sprite trick (but there are other ways to do them)

>> No.4975909

Symphony'Symphony ' sprites were not flat polygons, who the fuck would even think that? When I think of flat polygons I think clockwork knight actually. And yes, I'm just guessing with that one, but if someone has some links to reading materials about this I am bored at work for another 4 hours.

>> No.4975918

Plebstation 1 is solely a 3D machine. It has no support for 2D engines. Hence the slowdown in many ps1 pseudo 2 Dgames.

>> No.4975938

>>4975909
Everything the PS1 draws is flat polygons. That being said, if you want more details on SOTN's specifics, there's a DF retro about it.

>> No.4976196

>>4975918
>>4975938
Dun Dun Dun WRONG

>http://problemkaputt.de/psx-spx.htm
>The GPU can render Polygons, Lines, or Rectangles to the Drawing Buffer, and sends the Display Buffer to the Television Set. Polygons are useful for 3D graphics (or rotated/scaled 2D graphics), Rectangles are useful for 2D graphics and Text output.
>Rectangles are drawn much faster than polygons. Unlike for polygons, gouroud shading is not possible, dithering isn't applied, the rectangle must forcefully have horizontal and vertical edges, textures cannot be rotated or scaled, and, of course, the GPU does render Rectangles at once (without splitting them into triangles).

For the sake of simplicity, romhacking people / homebrew devs refer to this as the PS1's sprite feature, since it works similarly to the sprite feature of the snes and earlier systems (that had a sprite layer and multiple background layers. btw the saturn followed those earlier system leads with background layers usually on the VDP2 and foreground layers for sprites and 3d that was really distorted rectangular sprites)

To get this out of the way - yes, the ps1 had sprites. However since they weren't distortable as polygons some developers were fine with them (chippoke ralph) and some used flat polys instead (sotn, scenery art was still sprites)
The saturn sotn port and ps1 grandia ports were as bad as they were because they didn't pick the most efficient equivalent solution in the target hardware.

N64 2D: Wonder Project 2 and Mischief Makers (no idea about Wars 64 since it never released) went for polygons. It seems Nintendo's poor n64 documentation was particularly poor for 2d sprites, but i didn' check firsthand.

-- your friendly DF retro dumbassery hater.

>> No.4976212

According to the developers (on an interview available in Shmuplations) Chippoke Ralph was originally a X68000 game but on "development hell" so it was released on PS as a "retro game" even at the time.

>> No.4977114
File: 2.90 MB, 640x480, Bangaioh N64.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4977114

>>4974012
>>4976212
https://pixelatedaudio.com/little-ralph-interview/

>>4975909
>think clockwork knight
That's prerendered sprites. Symphony uses "sprites"/pixel art as the texture of polygons.

>>4975938

>> No.4977262
File: 2.17 MB, 320x240, psx_gems.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4977262

>>4974012
because almost all games on the ps1 were like this

>> No.4977267

>>4974012

Wikipedia says it started on the Sharp X68000.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventure_of_Little_Ralph

>> No.4977269

>>4975321
Never knew that there was F-Zero for PSX.

>> No.4977276

>>4977114
>https://pixelatedaudio.com/little-ralph-interview/

Thanks, didn't know about that.

There's two other dev interviews for Ralph:

http://www.itmedia.co.jp/games/interview/creator/aoyagi/index.html

http://shmuplations.com/chippokeralph/

>> No.4977291

The weirdest shit is that the game has an official English language website. It was never released stateside.

http://www.collavier.com/en/ps_ralph/index.html

>> No.4977313

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer%27s_Road
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorious_Boxers:_Ippo%27s_Road_to_Glory

Anyone played these?

>> No.4977507

>>4977291
It's not that weird. Some RPGs have archived English pages despite not even one advertisement releasing stateside. Some Japanese businessmen get their international translations ready ahead of time.

>> No.4977512

>>4977291
Seen that happen before with anime too

>> No.4977767

>>4976196
>Dun Dun Dun WRONG
Which of course you mean to be dun dun dun RIGHT. If you look at the internal command buffer you'll see the rectangles are still sent as polygons.

>> No.4978437

>>4977767

Wow, look at this faggot!

>> No.4978739

>>4977767
>If you look at the internal command buffer

Can you source this? Really scratching my nose on why would 8x8/16x16 tiles, rectangles or dots require polygon interfaces. Is the rest of the allocated VRAM also polygons? They can be drawn the same way and then later re-referenced, even though it would be ungodly useless and slow. Isn't the console just converting 4bpp/8bpp data to 15bpp where due in whatever buffer and then copying it to the framebuffer using a simple painter's algorithm with z flags and stuff or whatever defined by the programmers?

>> No.4980072

>why is this on the PS1

Why wouldn't it be?

>> No.4980085

All 2D games on N64/PSX should have been made for Saturn instead, the console with the best 2D capability.

>> No.4980087

>>4980085
kek the console was irrelevant in japan by 1998

>> No.4980090

>>4980072
Was the PlayStation really big enough back then to warrant having a Saturn game?

>> No.4980092

>>4980087
wrong, it kept getting games there until at least 2000

>> No.4980101
File: 102 KB, 343x500, bernie stolar.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4980101

>>4980092
http://www.mobygames.com/browse/games/sega-saturn/2000/
>THREE (3) whole games
Wow... totally not an irrelevant, fucking shit system, bro.

>> No.4980113

>>4976196
retard, grandia was made for saturn FIRST and then ported to the psx. also the psx version has more slowdown and missing effects

>> No.4980125

>>4974045
I remember Sony being pretty anal about having all his library be 3D, then they changed their policy.

>> No.4980250

>>4980101
>bernieposting

>> No.4980270

>>4980101
kill yourself berniebro

>> No.4980283

>>4974595
Vib Ribbon is 1MB, I think.

>> No.4980285
File: 3.10 MB, 1790x3410, PS1 2D 1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4980285

>>4980125

That's Sony America. Sony Japan was more tolerant of 2D. Many of the 2D PS1 games are JP exslusives.

>> No.4980290
File: 1.71 MB, 1780x1844, PS1 2D 2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4980290

>>4980285

>> No.4980296

>>4977267
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventure_of_Little_Ralph

how in the hell does a jp only game have a wiki page? delete that shit.

>> No.4980308

>>4980296
>muh encyclopedic relevance!!!

Delete yourself.

>> No.4980313

>>4980296
I could probably find a random kid's cartoon from Korea with its own english wiki page despite not even having a fansub.

>> No.4980332

>>4974015
>The system could actually do sprites (n64 was leagues more powerful and did actual 3d but didn't have actual sprite capabilities).

Other way around. 2D PSX games like SOTN used textured flat ploygons. The N64 could produce actual sprites but pretty much nothing used it.

>> No.4980407

>>4980332
>The N64 could produce actual sprites but pretty much nothing used it.
Mortal Kombat Trilogy?

>> No.4980498

>>4980308
>>4980313

A game needs TEN English language reviews to be on Wikipedia. Nip dong wing wong shit shouldbnt' be on there. It's an American Websit.

>> No.4980520

>>4977262
why is this making me laugh so much

>> No.4980532

Funny how the 3D PS1 games are largely seen as out-dated. That's because later systems just did 3D better. But it's the 2D ones that stand the test of time and are considered timeless.

It was the total opposite at the time. Everyone was abandoning old 2D games, and rushing towards 3D. I was reading reviews in Generation Next in the mid 90's, that were saying things like "Did we buy a new console just to play 2D games? Nope. Shit sucks. 2 out of 5 stars".

>> No.4980679

I love how the PS1 has a select number of games that obviously began development as Super Famicom games.

>> No.4980704

>>4980679

In this case, it was Sharp 68000.

>> No.4980789

>>4977767
>post says ps1 has three modes - lines, polygons, rectangles
>also says devs had the choice between coding rectangular shapes either using polygons (two tris) or a rectangle
>NUH UH akshully the rectangle mode is polygons too
. . .

>>4980113
>The saturn sotn port and ps1 grandia ports
wow so impressive you put together this reply when you couldn't do basic reading

>>4980498
That "Reception" section where masturbatory cliques of american hipsters think about the game, with carefully selected quotes of the stupidity (DumbassMcFaggot of IGNoble.com said in 2016 on his blog "the gameplay was too dated, and the game was hard and poorly focus tested"), are the sole reason for the game to deserve existence and coverage on wikipedia.
One step at a time for the day when we say indie game X invented backtracking or princesses saving themselves or monster breeding.

>> No.4980839

>>4980332
>le source face