/vr/ - Retro Games

allowing dreamcast was a mistake

That's not Sonic Adventure 1 though.

Yeah, Shadow was "cool," because we got to play more Sonic stages basically.

>platforming was what it should be for a 3d sonic
The platforming was terribly designed, nevermind the engine being buggy as shit even if you could play around the jank.
>shadow was cool lol
Subjective but he was fine in this one game. It doesn't really matter for gameplay.
>actually had a story
And here it is. You're a storyfag. Who gives a shit. It's a mascot character, not some literary representation of humanity.

SA2 fails as a game because it's all over the place in design philosophy, never committing to any sense of continuity and you faggots won't let it go because it was "your childhood" and admitting your impressionable mind was wrong in the past somehow makes you think your life was a waste, which is quite the false connection many of you make.

>>4920971
>The platforming was terribly designed

i beg to differ, the platforming had a great sense of momentum and speed, if you knew what you were doing the sonic and shadow stages can be completed smooth as butter and i'll admit the engine is a little wonky but for the time i'd say it was the best linear platformer on the market.

>>4920993
I can play the game as optimally as possible. Well, I did back then, I have no desire to return to it. Getting to that point is a chore, fighting against the engine. It's not naturally fun to control.

I miss the simple times when small animal mascots didn't talk and engage in silly emo plot lines.

>>4921018
>My doo doo floats... streaking blood...

>>4921018
I blame Ken Penders.

>>4920962
Is this a triple deluxe reverse irony meme?

>>4920962
It would be but to bad its mostly garbage crystal hunting and mech levels

>>4920962
>actually had a story
Yeah a bad one, how the fuck could nobody distinguish Sonic from Shadow?

>>4921975
Same reason people couldn't tell shadow mario from mario in SMS.

>>4922576
The difference is that SMS wasn’t trying to be uber grimdark.

>>4920962
i cannot stand people who think this is a good game. REPLAY IT. IT FUCKING SUCKS sonic and shadow stages were ok at best everything else was fucking awful, bad camera, glitches fucking everywhere its not a good game take of the goggles and use your fucking eyes dude

>>4922624
This, I played it when it was in a display kiosk brand new, nearly twenty years ago, and it was shit then too. Sonic 3 a best.

>>4922624
tbqh not even the sonic and shadow stages are that good. The city levels, the jungle levels, and metal harbor are a bit of fast fun but nothing more. The other levels don't even have speed on their side so you get to realize just how shit tier the level design is when it's not focused on straight lines that you run through.
I much rather preferred the sonic stages from the first game where they were more open and had some ounce of thought put into them.

>>4920968
The thing is, 2 of those stages were Sonic's stages, Radical Highway and Sky Rail.

>>4920971
>engine buggy
That was SA1, more the ports. SA2 was polished, especially Knuckles gameplay that was smoother than Sonic's and speed(which could be proved by running around Meteor Herd)
Now, mecha gameplay? Yeah, that was slippy.

>>4922738
I also prefer SA1's Sonic stages. The only thing close to that was Final Rush but it was 90% grind stage.

Sonic Adventure 2 Battle was my first game and still my favorite game of all time.
Well, not really, but I really do hold it in a special place in my heart.

>>4923143
Behold the only way anyone has fond memories for this game.

SA2 was the game that made me drop the franchise until Mania. Bought that shit on day one, like SA1 well enough, it was rough but I could see how a sequel would tighten everything up.
SA2 undid anything good from 1, and introduced even more suck on top of that.

>>4923138
>The thing is, 2 of those stages were Sonic's stages, Radical Highway and Sky Rail.

Explain? Were all of Shadow's levels made for Sonic?

>>4923391
>Bought that shit on day one,

Honest thoughts on Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog, and Sonic 2006?

>>4923667
Those 2 were. Originally the only playable characters were Sonic, Knuckles and Eggman as it was shown in the first trailer

>>4923682
How many of Tails and Rouges levels were made for Eggman and Knuckles?

>>4923692
Dont know. That trailer showed little of Eggman and just a bit of Knuckles in Pumpkin Hill, i think.

>>4920962
This game is a stupid piece of shit. My cock is so fucking large and thick, and this game sucks it all the way down. The only fun levels were Dr. Scrotehead's Cosmic Bridge.

only sonic game I ever played and I like it
replayed it like 8 years ago

>>4923669
>Sonic Adventure 2
Hated it. had to force myself to finish it. Was an utter disappointment in every way. The story was a new level of suck as far as what should be expected of a Sonic game. Adventure 1 had the right amount of goofiness and light drama. 2 was too tryhard and not only wasn't a good fit for Sonic but just poorly written in general. Hated the hunting and mech stages. Speed stages were a goddamned snooze and offered me nothing in terms of exploration or excitement or wonder oranything. I'm not a scorefag so trying to get high ranks wasn't even a priority to me giving me no reason to plod through the shitty game more than I had to.

>Sonic Heroes
Got this game a little bit later since, like I said, I had dropped Sonic. I had heard how bad it was but one day I saw it for cheap so I got it.
Better than SA2 that's for goddamn sure. Only thing was some of the stages seemed to drag on too long. Story was back to being the perfect blend of light drama and fun. The levels again were a bit too much like running down a funnel and AGAIN meant more for OCD scorefags than playing because the world and controls are actually fun. It had way more whimsy than SA2 though. Playing as the other characters didn't break the flow either since they basically only served as cosmetic and plot differences from Sonic's main team. The Chaos emerald stages were a fucking mess, I do remember hating those a bit.

>Sonic 06
I was super hyped for this. There was a playable demo that honestly looked like a return to form for the games. We know how that turned out. Every bad thing that magazines and youtubers say about it are absolutely true. Zero redeeming features

All in all, there's a reason Generations gets praise. Its the closest they've come to making 3D Sonic work and there's no fucking reason it took them that long to get so close considering SA1 was a perfect first stab at it.

>>4920962
>actually had a story
Dude super hedgehog lmao

>>4920962
>sonic games
>good
shadow the edgehog was unironically better than other games in the genre

The game is alright but the chao garden is where it shines

>>4920962
I feel this is the moment of when the sonic fanom went full retard and never looked back.

>>4924496
when i was a kid this was cool as fuck
>>4924587
this x100000 it was super in depth and added so much replay value, there's like a million different chao combos and to get certain ones you have to do a lot of completionist shit

>>4920971
Oh looks, another idiot who keeps losing all his rings because Sonic is on his feet in all the trailers.
Maybe if you realized that like in the old Sonic games, you're supposed to be in ball form 99% of the time, then maybe you would die so much.

I know e-celebs aren't allowed here and that's a good thing, but anyone watched the recent Sonic 1 playthrough by Game Grumps/Egoraptor? Holy shit, he's bad. I know he plays bad on purpose but it was painful to watch to the end.
He skipped Spring Yard and Labyrinth Zone with the level select because he kept getting game overs

>>4924173
Hero's was awful, everyone played like shit, the levels were reused too much, it was too slow, nothing felt good.

I just wanted to play as Sonic but instead I had to constantly switch characters. At least SA2 let you beat a single stage as one character but Heros had all this filler with tails and knuckles.

I honestly prefer Shadow the Hedgehog over the trashfire that's Heros. Even the other SA1 modes (except Big) were way better than Heros.

>>4924969
I'm sorry, what? You sure assumed a lot based on virtually nothing. "Maybe you would die so much"? Seems you got so assblasted that you couldn't type straight. No 3D Sonic game was difficult for me, if that's what you wanted to know from the source. An easy game can be shitty, too.

>>4924969
>ball form
You are asking too much. In Adventure most will run forward without even realizing you can roll like in the classics. Or even spindash and jump to get momentum with physics, not classic good, but good enough to do some amazing tricks.

>>4924979
But their followers love that kind of shit. It is cool to shit on things of previous generations, so you can belong at the cool group. It is literally like highschool

>>4920971
Sonic handles pretty fine. There's fairly little that's wrong with it. It's a bit twitchy at worst, and whoever decided mapping all of Sonic's alternate actions to the same button should have been publicly flogged, but that's it. Stages could stand to be less corridor-like, but the actual mechanics of how Sonic moves are okay.

The rest of the game's varying degrees of kinda bad, but Sonic/Shadow stages are good.

>>4921975
IIRC, his prototype design was closer, and they wrote the story around that
plus, there's literally nothing stopping Sonic from dying his hair black and putting some gel in his quills :^)

>>4922593
>grimdark
SA2's story is literally ripped from the pages of any shonen manga of the time. It's not any edgier than fucking comics made for twelve year olds.

>>4923138
I think most of SA2's Sonic stages are more fun, but SA1 really had more open feeling stage design. Final Rush might actually be the best level because of that, but like you said, it's also like 90% rails.

I'm still mad that Final Chase fucking sucked so hard though. Wouldn't have taken terribly long to just chop out those glitchy gravity pillars and replace them with rail bits or something.
The stage still wouldn't be that good, but it wouldn't be so damn awful.

>>4925935
the most fun I've had in SA1 was just spindashing literally everywhere since it's so broken

>>4926378
Nah. The physics are total fucking trash and the controls are janky as fuck. Sonic was always more about pinball physics that brainless speed. The marketing focused on speed but the games did not. Therefore Boost and Adventure are not classic Sonic logically translated into 3D, they're gotta-go-fast simulators with a sonic skin. Consider how Mario 64 is not classic Mario in 3D, it's a collectathon spin-off (that overtook the main series similar to how Persona overtook SMT). Mario 3D World on the other hand, is classic Mario in 3D. There needs to be a Mario 3D World for Sonic. A 3D game that that plays like the 2D games simply with an added dimension. A game with pinball physics, momentum, and actual platforming instead of homing attack spam and boost.

>>4924620
Yup. Shadow in particular was cancer on steroids.

>>4921018
Same.

>>4920962
Pic related. Also adventure 1 was better.

>>4926429
Both 3&K and Mania are better than 2.

sonic robo blast 2 is the best sonic game and it's not even an actual sonic game

>>4926429
sonic 2 is overrated as shit. it's got the same lame 'watch sonic go fast then climb some stairs' gameplay as 1 only you go faster and there's tails so it massages people's autism

>>4926454
actually it's a lot worse than sonic 1 in that regard now that i think about it

>>4926378
Yeah, the thing about Sonic's SA1 stages is being more open to shortcuts and some alternative paths. Sonic could pull some amazing shit by jumping at certain places after spindashing, like Red Mountain that was full of ways to try different things.

>Final Chase
Didnt like it either. The gravity pillars can lead to silly deaths when Shadow just decides to ignore the pillar and fall down. The level also drags a lot.

>spindash
In SA1 it was crazy how fast you could spindash without stopping. I also loved those jump moonphysics in both Adventure games.

>>4926419
The physics were good and fun, but not classic tier.
For example, in SA2 Green Hill the slopes work in the same idea as the classics. The problem is that is one of the few levels that have slopes since most levels are designed like straight roads with occasional trick ramps.
In SA1 there were more slopes and especialy ramps like in Ice Cap, which is when the Sonic's gameplay could shine.
Going back to SA2, in Final Rush when Sonic is going on vertical rails to the top it also shines how you can momentum Sonic's jumps to upper parts of other rails, but is not something easy to get right at first, it needs trial and error to master that.

>>4926504
Well the other thing is the janky ass controls themselves. Characters aren't fluid and instead of a logical acceleration there's like only 2 movement speeds. Crawl and fI'll sprint. It just feels like some cheap Chinese shit.

Sorry, but Sonic 3 & K is the best.

Was this the last Sonic Team game with SOUL?

>>4922738
playing it feels horrible. least precise controls of all time.

>>4926634
&Knuckles.

I kinda dropped Sonic after the Gensis trilogy on account of not having any sega consoles and my family that did have one moved away and the games and comics on shelves didn't look very enticing for me to want to return.

SA2 was the game that made me want to come back. Loved that games style.

>>4926642
No, Knuckles still appears in the games. Although you could say this was the last time he had a reason to appear in them.

>>4926585
In SA2 Sonic, Shadow, Rouge and especially Knuckles feel fluid. But Eggman and Tails do feel slippery.
The only problem with SA2 was a bunch of abilities placed into one button which could lead to things like bouncing instead of lightspeeddash.

>>4926634
2008 and 2011 had soul.

>>4926663
Who the fuck names Sonic games by date unless you're talking about '06?

>>4926673
Because i realized this is /vr/ and shouldnt be talking about those games here.

>>4926645
I'm saying S&K was the last sonic team game with soul.
>>4926663
Sonic and Shadow do not fucking feel fluid. There's no fucking momentum or precision to their physics/controls.

P I N B A L L P H Y S I C S

>>4926718
There is physics and precision. You shouldnt hold the analog stick so hard or just tap it slowly in a way where Sonic seems he is jogging around. You can stop both characters any time and immediately with fucking annoying break sound, you can jump into the air(ball form) and stop mid air for precise platforming(both Sonic and Shadow stay in static position if press jump button again), you can roll around or run in circles to get a sort of balance to reach long platforms, you can roll on downhills(like any Forest stage) to gain speed and then press a button to immediately go into run form keeping up that speed.
Knuckles does feel and play smoother though. He can also glide in air and then run immediately run gaining a boost of speed.

What I see most of the time is bashing SA2 without even trying to get good at the game. Sort like classic games where people simply dont roll or take advantage of slopes in S2 to reach higher platforms.
Or how in SA2, some blame grinding is bad because they dont know how to change rails keeping up the speed without failling down like retards.

>>4926792
Wow man. You really don't fucking get it. You just straight up don't know what I'm talking about. Your character doesn't have actual acceleration, you essentially just kick into high gear after 1 second. The jump is super linear and janky. You don't know what good physics are. You don't know the difference between linear movements and an actual physics engine. There's a reason the game revolves around homing attacks and other brainless auto-pilot mechanics.
Go play Utopia you idiot.

>>4926792
People can write up treatises like yours about Superman 64. Doesnt mean it's a good game. SA2 ducks, has always sucked. The fact that it was inexplicably so many kids' first Gamecube game is the only reason it gets defended at all

>>4926805
This is a battle that has been raging for nigh on 20 years.
There is a weird cultish subset of SA2 fans who claim the control is good, the button responses are fine and they never had a problem with the camera or any kind of glitch. People that admit the Advture games are broken shit but still fun are at least honest about it.
Fucks like that guy who claim the game is well crafted are lunatics and cant be reasoned with.

>>4920962
I liked it because you can actually play as Robotnik
granted he's called Eggman in this, but this never happened before or since in a sonic game, and he has a cool theme.

>>4926805
Acceleration could be better, but it works for a 3d game.
About that jumping, that is pure bullshit. Jump works fine, it was janky in SA1 but not in 2. Homing Attack exists so kids can bypass with enemy placement for paths, in certain places you could spindash and jump and ignore those sections.

>Utopia
We werent even talking about that.
The problem here is thinking that the 2d classic sonic will ever work exactly the same in 3d with pinball physics+momentum without any issues.
This is why I think SA2 did things right and worked good, but classic Sonic is on another realm way above.

>>4926807
Yes, and then there are people like you that assume that defending something means you are contrarian, or that "was your first game", or a blind fanboy.
SA2 was never been my favorite, definitely not top 5, is just a good game.

>>4926817
I never fall down that loop in Emerald Coast or clipped through the floor, but saying this means "bullshit". Getting stuck it did happen, or bridge issues with the whale, but more on DX.
>camera
We werent talking about camera. Camera was way worse in SA1. In SA2 there were places that it was annoying, like Hunting levels in closed areas, or things like Crazy Gadget.

>>4928508
It works. It isn't good though. It's Chinese-tier jank.

P.I.N.B.A.L.L.

P.H.Y.S.I.C.S.