/vr/ - Retro Games

7th saga
The US version was made even harder

Dunno how hard the Eye of the Beholder series is, but at least the first one's a fine dungeon crawler.

Dragon Quest 5 or 7 are excellent places to start if you wish to get into the franchise.

If you are into dungeon crawling, the PC Engine CD versions of Dragon Knight are pretty good, except 2 (this one has a game breaking bug in every version). Is the real saga that became Knights of Xentar in the third part in the west.

>>492273
>Something with dungeons that will kick my ass if I'm not prepared.
The Immortal,
Vagrant Story
and Daggerfall (awful game but will kick your ass.

>>492429
Vagrant Story. Goddamn that game will kick you in the cock if you fuck up even a little bit. Plus, trying to get all the secrets and unlockables...fuck.

Super Pitfall (snes)

Legacy of the Wizard (nes)

Lanyrinth (nes)

Hydlide

>>492406
DS or SNES for DQ5?
I've been meaning to try DQ7, for like a decade...heard it was suuuuper long.

>>492457
LOL fuck you

You will not be able to beat this without a walkthrough, I'm not bullshitting.
Most people can't get past the first puzzle without a guide.

>>492467
Is that a good starting point for Wizardry?

It's a French dungeon crawler, you can get it on dotemu.com it's one of my favorites.

>>492479
Its the hardest one.

>>492479
No, I recommend you start with 6,7 or 8.
4 was designed as a challenge for veterans of the first three games and a lot of the puzzles require you to have a in-depth knowledge of the first three games.
It's the hardest game in the series apparently, so I really wouldn't recommend for a beginner who's new to the series.

>>492484

Ishar is really good game.
Blade of Destiny is another awesome, but difficult RPG (it's German after all

Ultima is far from hardcore. The worst you will get is Ultima 2 because the game is frustrating and grindy. The other games have some tough to find items but the fights are usually pretty simple and you get revived after dying.

The best recommended starting points are 3 or 4 with 1 being an option for it's short length and simplicity. 3 is the heaviest on dungeons since the overworld is relatively small.
You can get fan patches for the first five games and improved engines for 4, 6 and 7.

>>492273

What about Fushigi no Dungeons?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mystery_Dungeon_video_games

You could also try the Shin Megami Tensei series.

>never played Diablo though

Give that a try then. 90% of the game is a dungeon. I don't know if I'd say that it's particularly difficult though, it's been a while since I played it.

>>492568
Where to start with MegaTen? I can't afford SMT on PS2 and don't have a DS for SJ.

>>492628

Emulators.

>>492273
This is probably not /vr/ (although it's sorta-vr since creator admitted his main goal was to bring back love for old school dungeon crawlers), but Etrian Odyssey. It's hard, but fair.

Although the bonus boss of first game is pure bullshit.

OP, do you mind if I ask about the appeal of the early Tales games? I tried them and I don't see why people would play them, they're very sluggish in combat.

>>492593
>>492593

Not really hard, there are just some stupid boss battles that get cheap.

There is a mod to make the game much more extreme though. A buddy of mine that's played D2 for years uses that mod (along with playercount=8 of course) to make the game 'interesting', so it might satisfy desires for difficult game.

>>492273
>Have never played ... Dragon Quest

Shit happens, OP.

DQIII for open world, majestic glorious adventure. You make the whole party. Class-based character system.

DQV for the story of a hero from being a previous hero's child yourself to rearing your own son, who is, ultimately, the true hero. Yes, it is grand.

Get to it.

>>492628
Download a DS Emu for Strange Journey, or a PS2 emu for Nocturne.

As a fellow first-time SMT player, I can tell you that SJ rocks all the socks.

>>492706
>As a fellow first-time SMT player, I can tell you that SJ is the msot tedious experience ever.

>>492681
I was young. Phantasia and Destiny have aged like ass, much like Star Ocean 1 and 2.

But Eternia (aka Destiny II in the US) has the most polished, fluid battle system I've ever played. That game is simply delightful, and stuffed full of all sorts of extras. Incredible presentation, music, and gameplay all around. Good pace and the story isn't totally jrpg-anime level shit.

Do yourself a favor and pick it up. I'm still mad Tales starting sucking hard after it went 3D.

>>492702
DS versions are the best, I'm guessing?

>>492720
For IV, V, and VI, probably.

IV is better in pretty much every way, with the exception of the accents (you ever try reading English like it was pronounced by a drunk Scotsman?).

V enhanced the story a bit and added new content. The PS2 version looks better (debatable), but is pretty much just the SNES game in 3D. Emulation for the DS game sucks, though, so if you aren't buying the DS version or playing it in a flash cart (This goes for all the DS Dragon Quests), go for the PS2 version if you can.

VI cut out some things and slightly rebalanced the game. Beyond that, it's pretty much the same. That said, the pixel art in the SNES version is sex. Too bad there aren't any fully completed fan-translations (there are one or two that have the full main story, but some things still aren't translated and they're kind of buggy).

For III, it's up to you. The SNES version is sex in graphics and looks really fucking nice. The GBC version looks like ass (even compared to the NES one), but has more content. I'd say go for the SNES version because the new content in the GBC version is negligible.

>>492458
DS or PS2.
Both are better than the SNES version.
DS is probably the best, but I'd recommend not emulating it, as it runs like ass (the game emulated, not the emulator).
Use a flash-cart or buy the game if you have to.

Might want to try SaGa out. Final Fantasy Legend I and II have standard progression so are easy to get into. From mid game and on wards battles can get a bit deadly, and the fact in Final Fantasy Legend I your guys have lives and there is a possibility for perma death along with weapon durability.

After that you could move onto the other entries like Romancing SaGa 3, SaGa Frontier, and possibly the remake of the SNES game Romancing SaGa for the PS2. The further you go into the series the less I'd advise someone to grind, it is entirely possible to make your game unwinnable in SaGa Frontier 1 (though you have to try doing that, but I've done so before), and it is fairly easy to do so in the Romancing SaGa remake.

Also one thing that turns people off is character development since there are no experience points or levels, it all depends upon the game and then if there are races the different races develop differently. Honestly if you really like JRPG's I think the SaGa series is worth trying out, but it isn't for everyone.

Though I personally think the games have medium difficulty, but I was raised off of them and think most JRPG's are fairly easy anyway. I am too afraid to go after something like Wizardry.

Wizardry IV

If you can beat it you will be counted amongst the most hardcore motherfuckers on the planet.

Shining Force I and II (Genesis)
Front Mission (SNES, a personal favorite)

Something newer, but not quite retro, Knights of the Old Republic. The sequel is plagued with bugs, even with the patches and mods. It's a mess, and I can't even finish the fanmade expansion and bug fixer.

>>492987
This. Sagas are fucking weird though. The GB FFLs (or at least the ones I played) have that old school ridiculous mid-game spike in difficulty thing going though. On the other hand, in FFL1 you can kill the endboss with a chainsaw. The annoying part about Sagas really just the lack of documentation, because the systems can vary a lot even between one game and the next.

>>493021
Shining Force I and II are the opposite of hardcore. If you're looking for SRPGs, play Fire Emblem 5 though even that is pretty easy if you understand how the game works. Langrisser I&II (not Der Langrisser) are also decent.

>>492527

the game of my childhood. I still have it on CD. I love the freedom it gives to the player. When you play it you feel like on a real adventure in contrary to the modern RPGs that makes you feel like in a theme park.

>>493053

>makes
>make

derp.

Wizardry VI - Bane of the Cosmic Forge
Wizardry VII - Crusaders of the Dark Savant
Wizardry 8
Wasteland
Lands of Lore - The Throne of Chaos
The Temple Of Elemental Evil
Might and Magic IV and V - World Of Xeen
Arcanum
...bah too many got tiered...

>>492996
Nonono...if you beat 6,7 and 8 with the same party than you officialy get crowned as the master of all nerds and acsend to nerd godhood.

Romancing SaGa series

>>492273
>King's Field series
If you liked these you will fucking LOVE Shadow Tower for PS1. It's basically a King's Field sequel but with much better everything. Stellar game.

>>492273
If you can into ASCII graphics, try Nethack. Incredibly fun, incredibly difficult.

>>492429
>and Daggerfall (awesome but buggy game that will kick your ass and bring you back for more

ftfy casual

>>493971
Basically I second this entire post
particularly Xeen
I'm a big fan of eminem 6 too, though.

>>492273
>hardcore
All right. Games that are guaranteed to make you cry bitch tears in order of Fuck You Difficulty:
Deathlord.
Wizardry 4: The Return of Werdna.
Pools of Darkness.
Dark Heart of Uukrul.
Chaos Strikes Back.

Unless you meant just good old RPGs in general in which case:
Might and Magic 3-7.
Wizardry 6-8.
Darklands.
Gothic 2: Night of the Raven.
Realms of Arkania series.
The Magic Candle.
Lands of Lore 1.
Betrayal at Krondor.
Ultima 4-8 and spinoffs.
Arcanum
Baldur's Gate 2
Planescape Torment
Arx Fatalis
Starflight 1&2.
Quest for Glory 1-5.
Wasteland.
Amberstar & Ambermoon.
Ishar series
Albion
Hard Nova
Sentinel Worlds
Captive 1&2
Bard's Tale series
Anachronox
Stonekeep.
Dragon Wars
Anvil of Dawn

>>494148
>Darklands
fuck yerr
time to go knife some bandits in a back alley

Crystalis (NES)
Faxanadu (NES)
The Ys series (Book I+II, Oath in Felghana, Wanderers from Ys, Origin, and Seven are your best bets. Oath and Wanderers are the hardest ones.)
Advanced Dungeons & Dragons: Pool of Radiance (NES)
Legend of the Ghost Lion (NES) (Also just called Ghost Lion)
Sweet Home (NES)

The first two are action RPGs. The first is Zelda-ish, the second is 'vania-ish. The Ys series is all Zelda-ish except for Wanderers which is 'vania-ish.

>>494808
>Crystalis (NES)
Not really "hardcore", it's pretty easy. Great game, though.

>>494808
>Faxanadu (NES)
Kinda bullshitty and weird, but enjoyable. The atmosphere is pretty unique for a NES action RPG. Not really hardcore either. Worth playing, though, even though it's got an annoying password system.

>Legend of the Ghost Lion (NES)
Is this honestly any good? Never played it.

>Sweet Home (NES)
YES. Totally worth a play.

>>494929
>Not really "hardcore", it's pretty easy. Great game, though.
If you patch Crystalis to take out the forced grind (bosses had a minimum level you had to be to damage them), it had the potential to be decently hard. But I mainly suggested it because I try to recommend it anyone who wants a good ARPG.

>Kinda bullshitty and weird, but enjoyable. The atmosphere is pretty unique for a NES action RPG. Not really hardcore either. Worth playing, though, even though it's got an annoying password system.
That bullshit you're referring to is it being too hardcore for you. I kid, but it is harder than average for most so I suggested it anyways.

>Is this honestly any good? Never played it.
The battle music is a little repetitive but yes. It plays a bit like DQ, but you have to summon your other party members (via magical objects you find in your travels) in-battle. Also, you level up by finding fragments of hope scattered throughout the game world. Grinding is for money otherwise. It was pretty neat.

>YES. Totally worth a play.
My african-american gentleman.

>>492406
+1

>>492987
Romancing SaGa 1/Minstrel Song is only considered difficult because of the ER system. The more you fight, the further the story goes along.

For Minstrel Song: It's best just to spam map skills to get Jewels to level up skills. Keep map proficiency levels low for maximum spamming. (Lurk/Move Silently should be at level 1; it wears off in a few seconds and can be reused, also map proficiencies replenish by just resting in the Inn's waiting room which is free), also Climb Mt. Scurve and accept Avi's request to get the Ignigarde, this will allow you to fight Pyrix who has the highest tech spark rate. If you are defeated by Pyrix you are just sent out of his chamber

Romancing SaGa 2 is difficult for the fact that the final boss hits like a truck and can inflict charm. Having Moleman and characters equipped with Somon Ring and Demonstone Ring are a must for that fight. Also the game is hard for the fact that enemy scaling is off sometimes, if you encounter a high rank enemy, the rank stays locked.

Romancing SaGa 3 is the easiest of the Trilogy because of Multi-tech magic and easy LP replenishment (LP restoring items can often be found). Also Muses' Dream = Easiest area to stat grind in since they are weak to instant death skills (Dimension Cut/Backstab). Said enemies also drop Earl's Tears which fully restore the party.

>>496226
wow, having never played these games, this sounds like the most spectacular jrpg gibberish

>>496226
I don't know if most people have the constitution to endure grinding out jewels on the field map through using proficiencies.

>>496257
ER is event rank, it depends upon the game. Either the amount of battles you fought dictate your rank or your HP dictates it. Higher the event rank the harder enemies become and certain quests either appear or disappear.

LP are life points. They are separate from HP, if you die or get hit with an attack that targets LP you lose LP. If you go to zero LP the character dies for good or is unconscious until it is restored (all depending upon the game).

Sparking/glimmering is learning a new skill during battle.

>>496257

LP = Life Points, the staple of the series from Romancing SaGa 2 onward. Characters lose LP if:

* They run out of HP
* They are attacked when out of HP

One can just revive a character by using a healing item or spell on them, as long as they have LP, they remain in the party.

In Minstrel Song if any character loses LP they are dead until brought back from the Netherworld. (Lead permanently loses 1 Maximum LP) if the lead character runs out of LP in any SaGa game, it's game over

ER = Event Rank, position in the story/quests available

Spark = Learn new techniques

ADOM

I've been playing Wizardry - Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord on the NES myself lately. Everything was going good until this happened. I appear to be trapped in a dark hallway, all light spells just get eaten by the darkness.

This is what I mapped out by feeling around on the walls, am I fucked?

>>500246
Derp, forgot I had to press A to open doors. Also according to Dumipac this is a east-west hallway.

>>492273
Phantasy star 4 on megadrive

>>500301
Fantastic game, but not 'hardcore'.

>>500246
What is that program you have running in the background for mapping?

>>500301
OP here. I actually made the PSIV thread that's been pretty popular lately...

Like the other guy said, PSIV is great but by no means difficult or hardcore. The dungeons are fairly moderate and only a handful of the bosses are truly challenging.

>>494148
What he saiid /\
||
||

I have to ask if anyone's played through the first Shin Megami Tensei on the SNES and if so how long it took them.
I can't seem to keep myself focused on it without getting irritated just trying to walk around.

>>503465
http://dungeon-map-ed.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/dungeon-map-ed/index.html

By the way, is it just me or does this dungeon overlap on itself in some places?

>>503837
how the hell do you work that program? In chrome it seems buggy as heck. Can't get it to work at all.

>>503837
No, it shouldn't overlap. At least it didn't on the original Apple version.

legend of legaia will make you hate yourself

first enemy kicks your ass

every enemy kicks your ass and drops shit money

knife - 800G (or whatever)

>>504223
You click on stuff you want to add then click where you want to put it. The graph resizes automatically when you place stuff near the edges. Maybe just try another browser.

>>504337
I must have made a few mistakes in counting hallway tiles.