/vr/ - Retro Games

>>4900408
no
Super Metroid is perfect

Yeah, Super Metroid isn't very fun and SotN is pretty fun

>>4900432
spbp

>>4900432
But isn't the opposite true?

Metroid III doesn't have a Progress System™, thus it's shit.

>>4900492
But it does

The real question is Castlevania Symphony of the Night or Metroid Fusion.

>>4900504
Oh, I forgot about all the leveling up and stat allocation in SM.

>>4900526
Energy tanks
Upgrades
Missile upgrades

>>4900527
Then every game ever has RPG mechanics when you stretch the meaning of the word like that.

>>4900527
Do you get any of those things by acquiring a certain amount of points from killing enemies over and over? No? Then it's not a Skinnerboxvania.

>>4900408
Faggots do.

>>4900561
That doesn't make it not progress

>>4900408
Super Metroid is more challenging and has better gameplay, Symphony has better aesthetics, music and atmosphere but is also piss easy. No objective way to determine which is better, each has its own merits that will suit individual tastes.

I personally replay SOTN more often just because I prefer gothic horror to sci-fi.

>>4900408
Yep. I like the gothic horror aesthetic way more.

>>4900492
>metroid 3 has actual upgrades and not trinkets therefore it's shit

>>4900592
Getting new equipment has nothing to do with a progress system.

Wasn't a fan of any of the Metroid games, but SotN is one of my favorite CV games, right up there with 3 and Bloodlines.

SM is better designed.

>>4900530
Also, RPG is defined in incredibly broad terms. Whenever I see some arguement about whether or not some game is a "real RPG" its almost always going off of semantics and overly literal interpretations of terms. Not that SM is an RPG but it obviously has at least some ideas from RPGs.

im playing this right now for the first time and you people are f-cking crazy. this isnt even as good as the DS trilogy, all these ideas were done better later. while super metroid is a legendary classic

1.Dawn of Sorrow
2.OoE
3.Portrait of Ruin
4.SOTN

>>4900813
Aria of Sorrow is better than any of those and I would definitely not put Portrait of Ruin above SotN.

I do, I don't enjoy Metroid at all.

>>4900714
Things that define RPGs:
>player-driven character progression
>combat at least partly based on statistics
>inventories which are not filled with exclusively quest items
>free exploration of previously visited areas

SOTN is an action RPG.

>>4900601
SoTN has worse music but great music production values.

Also, the aesthetics are better on Super Metroid. Both have good aesthetics for level designs and so fourth but SM even bothers to integrate it into the UI item/map screen.

Symphony has worse atmosphere. There's atmospheric music, but it never really feels like a castle or has presence in the way SM feels like running around cavernous underground and techno-ruins etc.. There are a few parts of the castle that feel distinct but they don't really "feel" like what they are, just different that they're distinct areas. SM areas fucking feel like what they are. Norfair feels like a fucking inferno lava and acid ridden hostile hell hole. Maridia feels like a slumbering marine flooded cave with marine like creatures, The wrecked ship feels like an adandoned habitat.

The most SoTN does is like a room or two that sort of feels that way - like the Sanctuary with stained windows and mellow ass music or the Arena with the hype ass music. And they actually sort of almost feel like - okay yeah this is an arena and this is a church like place for a split second passing through them.

>>4901042
I will note - forgot - the underwater caverns in SoTN are perhaps the best atmosphere in the game and feels like a fucking cavern. So okay, that whole section there was probably the best designed portion of SoTN.

>>4900530
>>4900959
The only thing that sets RPG apart from other adventure games are the numbers. Stat progression system.

One could argue say SM is an action adventure game with some RPG elements because of the upgrades, but that's not enough to qualify it as "action RPG".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sglKS-HfZMw&t=21s

>>4900408
maybe because SotN is the best castlevania game but super metroid is outclassed by metroid prime?

>>4900408
Yes, because being a vampire is more fun than being a woman.

>>4902046
Saturn and PSP versions of SotN let you play as a woman.

>>4900408
People do, and they are idiots.

>>4900408
I know /vr/ loves hating popular things and saying classic Castlevania is better than SoTN because they don't like backtracking, but saying Super Metroid is better than SoTN doesn't have any fundament, since both games are in the same category and SoTN does everything better.

>>4900601
>Super Metroid is more challenging
I played both and never thought SM was more challenging. It is true that exploring the game is more challenging, as at some points it might seem hard to guess where to proceed next. But that's only an issue two or three times in the whole game.

Also, I don't think more challenging can be translated as better game.

>>4903138
>SotN does everything better
>>4901042 explains how I feel about the two games perfectly, I was going to type pretty much the same comment. One of SM's biggest strengths is how distinct the areas feel, not just in terms of atmosphere but also in gameplay. Different areas present different challenges - the Wrecked Ship has the power off at first, Maridia has the water, Lower Norfair has the acid. SotN feels like it's largely the same hallway copy and pasted with different wallpaper, with the exception of the underground caverns like he pointed out.

>>4900509
Fusion. I like my creepy space station setting.

>>4900408

>>4905432

>>4900893
I’m a Ruin apologist and I wouldn’t either

>>4900432
Agreed.

never played a castlevania until recently
I'm playing castlevania IV and dracula x for SNES
so far I like dracula x better because it's easier. what other castlevanias have a lower difficulty like this?

>>4905512
IV is known as the easy one, and X is known as the ball-busting hard one.
Rondo has a very comfortable difficulty curve, and the original is super short.

>>4900408
No. I like SoTN, it's a fun game, but it's also very thinly spread and poorly focused, with really pretty lukewarm challenges (though part of the fun is finding something stupidly OP and going wild with it), whilst Super Metroid is a rather tightly wrapped adventure that seldom feels like it's stalling for time or putting on filler.

The DS and GBA Castlevania games do the Metroidvania thing FAR better, feeling much less slapdash and offering more challenge. Many SoTN bosses are really easy, but then you have Dracula in CoTM, or hard mode Death in DoS, the former who is easily in the top 10 of hardest CV bossfights.
SoTN was kind of patched together from a CV game which was never made, and the sheer amount of redundancy really makes this show.
The upside down castle also feels like an enormous afterthought which was rushed together late in development, HoD does the "two castles" thing in a much better way.

>>4900408
The musics sure are better. But Super Metroid is better. It was made by insane people. It's very hard to outsmart a game like that.

>>4903138
Metroid 1 age like shit.Classicvania are still fun to play.

>>4903893
>SotN feels like it's largely the same hallway
Look at this map and tell me how is everything the same hallway. SotN has more variety than SM, which only has an area with a lot of water and the rest of the map where you proceed the same way.

>>4906107
SM has more rooms, more shortcuts, more variety of level design, more gameplay possibilities. The design of SM had just more work.

>>4900492
Its annoying that the stat allocation in sotn is completely random. You can get 1 point or 4, i had to restart the game many times ao i could get a perfect level. I think that leveling was good on its own if the game didnt provide some broken weapons (and that ring).

>>4906107
Does that save point below the entrance to the castle really exist?

The main issue with SOTN is simply that it's tedious to backtrack through the castle. The future games made it easier to breeze your way through in various ways, and the castles weren't quite as large without all the upside-down stuff.
There are several points in SOTN where I knew that an ability I just gained enabled me to pick up an extra item, but I just couldn't be bothered to traverse the castle to get it. That doesn't make me think of good design, frankly.

In comparison, I never really feel like things are out my way in Aria/Dawn of Sorrow. The teleport points and placement of key locations just seems more compact and convenient for long-term play. I have extra incentive to go through a location multiple times because I might pick up a good soul with my higher luck stat.

SOTN did create a really good atmosphere and a sense of Dracula's Castle being a living entity, but the feeling is quite lost when you're slowly trudging through a corridor for the tenth time. Games with this much repeated content need to be compulsive in just the right way.

>>4906182
This,playing it for the first time and its a f-cking nightmare of design. This was just a blueprint for the gba/ds games.

They're completely different games, and the constant squabbling over which is better is exactly the sort of tedious shit that ruins this board.

Especially since ARIA OF SORROW SHITS ON THEM BOTH GET REKT FAGS.

>>4906107
I mean sure, the hallway gets rotated 45 or 90 degrees sometimes. That shouldn't fool you though.

Aria a best.

>>4906325
I like that this chap is a meme.

>>4906313
This. They look simiar on the surface, but Super Metroid is an action-platformer and SotN is like a sandboxy action-rpg. You get around by jumping on platforms, but they never pose any real obstacle to you.

I enjoy Symphony more, but think Super Metroid is a better game overall.

>>4900408
>Americans unironically posting that box art.
It's like you have zero (0) shame.

>>4906178

yes it does, you can easily get there when playing as richter and sliding backwards when entering the castle. Check some YouTube vids...

>>4906372
>badass spooky castle vs faggy Japanese girly man

America wins again.

>>4906350
>tfw when there's more character in a single SotN enemy than in the entirety of Super Metroid
Super Metroid is undoubtedly tighter in terms of design but it has absolutely no charm or sense of fun. It does have ewok knock-offs though, so I guess that's something.

>>4906394
>it has absolutely no charm or sense of fun
I don't think that's fair. Certainly SM's enemy design isn't its strongest point, and SotN's visuals are generally more appealing, but at the same time SotN's visuals are mainly copied from standard horror tropes, so you could accuse the game of not being very imaginative.
And I'd definitely have to challenge your claim that SM has no "sense of fun". I'd say that flying around with the space jump and screw attack is just as "fun" as anything in SotN, if not more so (I don't think the bat form measures up).

>>4906325
Highly true, the only things SotN has on AoS are the graphics and music (which are mostly due to hardware limitations). AoS absolutely has better gameplay and more content, despite only having one castle.

>>4900408
I think most people like it better than super. I prefer super because I like the bigger emphasis on hidden passageways, but both games are great

>>4900813
If you played the later Igavanias before SoTN, then yeah, there's a lot about it which isn't as good.

>>4906350
Nothing about SoTN is "sandboxy"

One is a pure action-adventure platformer and the other is an RPG/Action-adventure platformer hybrid.

>>4906394
>but it has absolutely no charm or sense of fun

It has entirely that. If you mean it's not goofy and shit, sure but if it were that would detract from the charm and sense of fun. SM is absolutely all about immersing you into a scifi world and seducing you with solid gameplay mechanics. That's about as fucking charming and fun as you get. If it were a person it'd make you swoon and fuck you silly.

>>4907131
Honestly, mock balling, wall jumping, shinesparking, ice beaming, boost running like a bat out of hell and just generally flipping the fuck out are funner. Those two are really just cherries on top to say congratulations you made the journey and it was amazing now fucking just fuck everything up and finish this, you've earned it.

>>4906372
That claw of a hand always bothered me.
Pic related is superior.

>>4901042
I stopped reading at SOTN has worse music. Worse atmosphere?

Super Metroid is the better designed game but that doesn't necessarily make it the better one of the two.

>>4901995
Metroid Prime series is the most overrated series I have ever seen. Were never that great.
>>4906132
BULLSHIT. more gameplay possibilities my ass. Just cause it is designed better, I can still make my character EXACTLY how I want in SOTN, why not in SM?
>>4906182
>>4906268
There are fucking warp points all around the map and are interconnected with eachother as long as you have used them. You don't have to backtrack the whole way, and the developers made sure of this.

I just beat SOTN for the first time today. It's a good game but it definitely has its flaws, which people have talked about already. Also the second castle is kind of a let down. There are basically no more major abilities to gain there and you can go everywhere from the start, so the feeling of exploration is gone and it just becomes a gauntlet of enemies to work through.

>>4900432
This.

>>4903138
>SoTN does everything better.
I don't agree.

>>4908263
The worst thing about the inverted castle is that it's only got like 2 music tracks playing everywhere, Lost Painting and that other one.

Also everything is simply palette swapped to be dark red/green/etc.

>>4906148
>stat allocation completely random

Ugh, just do well on the prologue fight with Dracula and you get your coveted stats. Don't get hit, kill him quickly, refrain from using the item crash.

>>4907956
I feels a heck of a lot more like a sandbox game than a platfomer to me.

>>4908434
He means that every level up is random, you can get +1 to one stat or all of them. Some people reload many times on each level up because autism.

But IMO this is in the same realm as trying to level up Muramasa all the way to +9999 dmg. Making a piss easy game absolutely no challenge.

>>4908454
>But IMO this is in the same realm as trying to level up Muramasa all the way to +9999 dmg. Making a piss easy game absolutely no challenge.

No shit it's a waste. Considering you can already kill Drac standing still in 10 seconds while being healed with items you just find sitting around the castle.

>>4900408
if one prefers the gothic horror theme to sci-fi, why not? I finished SOTN on my DIY arcade stick and I liked all the Street Fighter style special moves Alucard could perform. Samus had these amazing boost jumps that took some practice to master -- very satisfying!
I think they are both great and have stood the test of time.

>>4906325
... This makes me want to play a game where you're an average monster taking part in a rebellion against usurper Dracula.

Both are great for different reasons, let's not squabble

Aria and fusion both improve on them in some ways, so neither is perfect. But those games also lose a lot of what made the older games special.

>>4900408
I've played Super Metroid maybe three times, as in finished it.
Playing through SotN right now on the Vita.
It is very fun, but I don't think it comes close. Combat can be a little fucked and you can easily get lost. SM has a balance of exploration while also being able to keep you finding new things. SotN I end up missing crucial items or characters that can greatly help with bosses.

Course that's probably just preference but fuck if I know. Great game though, I will give it that.

>>4900530
>Then every game ever has RPG mechanics

But you're moving the goalposts becasuse that's not what >>4900492 said. He said "progress system." He didn't mention the term RPG at all. Super Metroid absolutely does have a system of progress in the form of items and upgrades. That's progression.

>>4912824
Progress systems triggertard derails so many threads.

But there's a real distinction I think between a game like Metroid or Zelda where there are set limited health and other upgrades that you can find, and one where simply killing many enemies will level up your character.

>>4912929

I do agree with that. That's what makes Metroid and Zelda not RPGs. But they do have item-based progression systems. Really he should have just said "Metroid isn't an RPG" to begin with if that's what he meant.

Yeah. I like the visuals/gameplay and soundtrack more.

I've literally never thought to compare them until now, and don't know how I haven't.

I love them both but I guess Metroid's tighter, way more focused with appropriate payoff? SotN can go all over the place and kind of breaks itself gameplay-wise but still has some thorns and is fun.

>>4900408
The boss fights in super metroid are better than sotn but I like the aesthetics of sotn more.

Super Metroid or gtfo

I've never liked this game

>>4900432
i found it easier to immerse myself in sotn myself. something about exploring a gigantic medieval castle was far more interesting than exploring some alien techbase

>>4900408