/vr/ - Retro Games

>>4812962
Is Deadly Shadows worth playing? Are there any ESSENTIAL patches that are needed to play it?

>>4812992
I've tried it twice, got pretty far the first time, but it just felt awful to me.
Not worth it, but you could play it and pretend its an entirely different stealth game.

why were they so mean to him?

>>4813201
>doesn't like Thief
I think you're in the wrong place, buddy

I had a thief dream last night.
There were mummy enemies that were super resilient to damage and strangled you. Like Zelda's gibdos.

>>4814364
>DS = thief
lol

>>4814364
Yeah bro I love Thief. I'm in the right place. I buy games based on the name on the box and not the content of the game.

>>4814373
>DS is bad because muh it doesn't have nostalgia factor
Fuck off, I'm tired of shills like you. Just because it's not as good as the originals doesn't make it a bad game

>>4814401
>DS is quintessential thief and if you dislike it you dislike the entire series
also, you don't know what shill means

>>4814364
>>4814401
Different anon here, I honestly don't see why Deadly Shadows is worth bothering with instead of just playing fan missions if you want more Thief. It's okay I guess if you're starved for stealth games, but it's ugly and mechanically inferior. I guess if you really love Stephen Russell or The Cradle it's worth playing, but I didn't even finish the last mission when I played it. It was pretty lame compared to the originals. And if you really want DS-style graphics (dynamic shadows and all that) you could play the Dark Mod instead. I'm not a big fan of the Dark Mod either, compared to the originals, but I think it looks great compared to DS.

>>4814504
The level design is simply inferior, no one can claim otherwise, movement is not all that great either. Don't care all that much about graphics but i would say that the first two had a stronger art direction, also sound.
That's what killed it for me, no nostalgia, didn't beat the first two thief games until 2010 or so.

>>4812992
The sneaky upgrade is worth getting because it takes those trash loading screens out of the levels.

I didn't like how they nerfed blackjacking but when you get gas bombs you can more or less do your thang. Gas arrows don't have the AoE they used to. Climbing is a nice addition now that rope arrows are gone. I miss fencing but if you adapt to the equipment you have the enemies aren't really a problem. I never cared for the oil flask. I would have preferred no equipment limits because that feels more like the first game. Third person was sometimes useful but I'll admit it doesn't feel entirely right outside of sneaking in the shadows of a guard with a torch, which was novel.

It's way to fucking easy to be buddy-buddy with the factions, but I appreciate it when the city goes to shit and the streets are fucking chaos. That's where it got kind of fun because it's just a clusterfuck of street fighting and it feels like sneaking around during the opening fight of Romeo and Juliet but sometimes the AI dumps ass and a friendly will attack you.

Story-wise it's.... whatever. Has an okay who watches the watchers vibe to it, which is all right in a series that's sort of in a vague way had a centrist vibe to it. Garrett's not quite as fun as he was and there aren't really enough explanations as there should have been. They could have done a lot more with the assets they had, like the fucking fishmen who were there for all of one level but has so many opportunities to tie into The Lost city or some kind of HP Lovecraft scenario that they just didn't and that disappointed me.

I also disliked the map, which wasn't nearly as fun as the first two games'.

It has issues but it's not a bad stealth game. The sneaking works. Don't go into it expecting even remotely the same level of depth and complexity as the first two, but there are little tiny secrets and side quests that aren't terrible. But I'd take DS over hot garbage like Shawden or Aragami any day of the week.

How the fug do you come up with the layout for a mission?

>>4815367
look at real life architecture and old city layouts

>>4815367
Don't put stackable boxes in a level if you don't want them stacked up and used to break whatever continuity you had in mind

>>4815645
That's fun though.

It's become very apparent how Thief 1 doesn't have a clean, normal looking grey brick texture. Which is probably good because that's all I'd keep using if it did.

>>/vr/thread/S4721574#p4806603
It's a variation on Constantine's mansion and it's gameplay diverges too much. It doesn't leave a lot of room for player decisions. One of the key points of Thief is (limited) freedom.

Con > Karras

Does anyone know what property it is that makes it so red buttons can be activated by shooting them with arrows, and whether that could be applied to a sunbutton (like the one in Song of the Caverns)?

>>4817451

give it a poke stim receptron with frob object as effect

>>4817468
Neato. I doubt I'll end up keeping this but that just explained how to do a lot of other stuff I wasn't really thinking about.

>>4817490
Is that Song of the Caverns? Where is that button?

Have any of you tried out this Steam Input shit?
I was never interested in it until Valve added support for Switch Pro Controllers, but since then I've been fucking around in lots of games that I never dreamed of having good controller gameplay with.
I legit just spent around 3 hours making one for Thief Gold. This shit is so extensible that you could bind every useful control onto the D-Pad, analog sticks, and bumpers/triggers if you really tried. I even got leaning forward and a janky tile walking system on there.
Legit made me buy a Steam Controller.
I realize what kinds of replies I'm baiting right now, but I'm honestly just amazed that there's software now that makes playing Thief on a controller tolerable.

>>4812992
Don't listen to idiots like these >>4813201 >>4814374 >>4814504.
This guy here >>4815156 is correct. DS has issues, but it's still fun.

>>4817857
That's not caverns. It's a shrunk down version of the big button in the sun in the bright golden room from Caverns.

>>4817186
Alarus Extension
A joke mission. Basketball. Swell.

I'm currently doing my first playthrough of Thief. I have played System Shock 1 & 2 and Deus Ex through before this, so Thief was logically on my to-do list. So far I haven't even done that much sneaking but instead ninja'd myself through the levels.

>>4818928
Do you think SHODAN would let Karras run through her corridors?

>>4817186
True, and that's why it's not a FM I would recommend to who wants some more Thief after Thief. With this one (Shunned) we enter the field of missions that base on Thief's gameplay a different kind of experience. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. In this case both the small scale and the atmosphere help, and the linearity doesn't overstay its welcome. If there is a welcome in the first place: the risk with missions that stray from what makes Thief Thief is that they can be found simply uninteresting, depending on one's taste.
And from the same author, another semi-novelty, joke missions. Some of the very first FMs weren't very serious but more in the "I'm just figuring out how this works" or "I don't want to think of a serious backstory for now" sense. Seeing Gonchong's zombies, almost threatening in the last mission, taking a break here is kinda endearing. Also this one marks the start of the slightly unrealistic tongue in cheek taverns niche, unless I'm forgetting something from the previous missions.
Joke or not, I'm glad I got to hear the Horn of Quintus again. And it's good to find out that the mysterious Alarus were fan of the ancient Keeper art of basketball. Still no bow upgrade to be found, the search continues. Interesting mines too. Speaking of alternative takes on Thief's gameplay, the starting equipment made me hope for a mission that would ask me to use 80 mines creatively. Maybe next time.

I checked the Docks again after this one. While it's more open than the claustrophobic Shunned, linearity seems to be part of the style of this author. Also the first time I've played it I didn't notice the guard shooting gas arrows, a curious choice.

>>4817468
>want to get into mapping but feel like i'm having a stroke when reading this sentence

>>4817468
>>4817490
That's more complicated than it needs to be. I can't remember what property handles physcollision frobbing but you could just create a normal button and change its model to the sun button. Buttons can be activated by all types of arrows, as well as thrown objects.

>>4812992
>>4813201
>>4814504
Best OST in the series, best game balance (enemies can notice being pickpocketed, flashbombs are no longer overpowered), story is miles better than 2. Movement is fucked and it suffers from console downgrading but mods help a lot with that. Still a really good game once you get used to it.

>>4821235
>enemies can notice being pickpocketed
They only comment on it, it has no effect on their altertness. However they actually go and investigate missing valuables and doors left open whereas those two only warranted a comment by the AI in the originals.
I agree about the best game balance though. It goes all the way to surface material footstep volume. Deadly Shadows actually has a full gradient of footstep volumes that goes from silent through intermediate to loud whereas the originals went from extremely silent to extremely loud with almost nothing in between.

ur a taffer

>>4821235
>enemies can notice being pickpocketed
this is also the case in the real thief games

>>4822232
Only if you're in public and walk in plain view of a civilian carrying valuables. They're out in the middle of the night and guarding their stuff more carefully when they know they're not alone. You need to hide behind a dark corner and steal the stuff as they pass. If they know where you are while you're trying to pickpocket them, they will get alerted. But the AI in Thief 1 and 2 will not notice that they are missing a money purse if you've taken it.

Is there a comfy discord server for fans of Thief, Deus Ex, and System Shock?

Pinnacle of gaming.

How is that game like Thief can feel so realistic even though it was made 20 years ago, but modern games feel so fake despite having sometimes almost photorealistic graphics? What went wrong with the industry? The way how Garret moves in original Thief games feels sort of heavy and sluggish, almost like moving a real person. The swordplay also feels dangerous and something you want to avoid as much as possible, one missed block and you get impaled by the enemy guard.
Jumping over huge gaps and grappling on the ledge just in the final moment makes my stomach tingle in excitement every single time.

Why can't modern games have this feeling of danger and realism?

>>4821235
>flashbombs are no longer overpowered
Flashbombs were never OP because they were rare and expensive in the originals. It's up to the mission designer to not give you 5 of them. The whole point of the original flashbomb was to give you a "give out of jail free" card as an alternative to reloading a save, but you can only do it a couple times per level. Do you really think a good balancing solution is to make the blackjack cure blindness?

Thief 3 also has pretty bad balance overall since you can stockpile items between missions. I think some of the AI changes are decent and that's it.

>>4821575
I remember crouch-walking on noisy surfaces to be WAY quieter in Thief 3 to the point where moss arrows were hardly needed. Maybe they did have more variations in loudness but you certainly didn't need to pay as much attention.

>>4823453
Because they were made by nerdier, dorkier people for a nerdier, dorkier audience. And I don't mean that in a pejorative sense. You know, the kind of people that would actually consult a table in Dungeons & Dragons to figure out the % chance of successfully sneaking past a dragon while wearing a suit of armor. Plus, they had to build levels around the systems they designed ("How can noisy floor and rope-able wood placement make a fun level?) rather than the modern way of designing for a particular player experience. It gave people more freedom to have a bad time but also means you engage with and notice the systems a lot more.

>>4823453
>sort of heavy and sluggish, almost like moving a real person
Are you American, by any chance?

>>4824734
>I remember crouch-walking on noisy surfaces to be WAY quieter in Thief 3
It's actually hard-coded to be completely silent with no way to mod the feature out. -Which is a shame because the surface footstep volume balancing is a good change.

I have to say I was disappointed by Thief 1. I absolutely loved the first level and thought the game was going to be about infiltrating homes and stealing shit, but then you spend an hour shooting zombies and going through boring dungeons and caves. It's hard to keep playing when the game gives you its best parts right at the beginning. Why are the undead even a thing here?

>>4825346

>>4825346
Thief 1 is basically a D&D thief class simulator. Thief 2 is a "stealth" game. They're both brilliant.

>>4825149
You know what I mean you goof.

>>4825346
meme opinion

>>4825346
(You)

>>4825346
I was also surprised by the sudden change of tone in my first playthrough. First it was all about that ninja stuff, but then suddenly you're motherfucking Indiana Jones crawling through some ancient temples and fighting against supernatural enemies. I don't have anything against those levels, but I like the "human levels" more and there are plenty of those. You will absolutely love the opera house level once you get there if you like realistic levels.

Hello thief! Are you here to sing too?

What are the best fan missions?

>burricks

>why yes, the mechanists are much cooler enemies than the hammerites!! praise karras xDD

>>4825346
>it's another "buh duh thief just means house burglur why dere zombies" post

>>4825894
I AM THE FAGGOOOT OP
LISTEN TO MY WORDS OR I WILL BAN THEEEE

>>4826015
True FMkino /v/ and /vr/ won't tell you about:
Tower of Jorge
Keeper of Infinity
Osama Bites the Dust
Nightcrawler
The Rebellion of the Builder

>>4826521
>The Rebellion of the Builder
only one I played of the ones you mentioned. too high autistic cruelty factor for me. I dropped it at mission 3 when I got stuck and realised that there were conversations that would ruin your playthrough if interrupted.

Currently on last stretch of my first playthrough.Shit just got crazy at the mansion.

>>4820168
Even the undead want to party sometimes.
Linearity steers the player towards the objectives. It's useful. There are also FMs that drop you in the middle of the map and leave you to fend for yourself. That is an other extreme.

Oh dear, Wrichards is next!

>>4820168
Even the undead want to party sometimes.
The player needs to be steered towards the objectives. There are also FMs that drop you in the middle of the map and leave you to fend for yourself. That is another extreme.

Oh dear, Wrichards is next!

>>4826654
Fear the frogs, manfool.

>>4826542
All of those are either gag missions or autism simulators.

>>4826024
Ok, I laughed a bit too much at this

>>4826015
Fan missions are too varied to give a simple answer to that question. Thief is not one type of thing. You should start by saying which original missions are your favorite and what you specifically liked about them before anyone can help you.

>>4826015
Can't go wrong with playing the ones with the highest rating.

>>4827407
Sure you can, sorting by rating on thiefmissions gives Calendra's Legacy and Deceptive Jump Scares in the top 5.

>>4827507
Caldendra's Legacy isn't that bad. It has its cringe but a lot of interesting stuff as well.

>>4827507
calendra's legacy is GOAT if you remove mission 1, mission 3, and the cringy conversations and humour in mission 2.

more spiders

New NewDark release: http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146448

>>4814331
Because pagans are cunts

>>4828218
Does it remove the fence in the Keepers hideout?

>>4828218
Does this even matter for people just playing the game? Seems like most of this is for modders' benefit.

>>4828421
That's part of TFix, not Newdark itself (or TFix lite).

>>4828428
Not exactly, but it looks like disabling texture filtering should work properly now.

>>4828494
BRB INSTALLING NOW

>>4828218
How can this be applied to TG?

>>4828516
It's beautiful.

>>4828548
>Unzip new_dark.zip into the root TG folder
>Unzip contrib.zip into the root TG folder
>Open "doc" folder in new_dark.zip and open T1.zip
>Create "patch" folder in the root TG folder and place "intrface.crf" from T1.zip in it
>Open cam.cfg and add "dark1" as the last line
>Open cam_ext.cfg and add "dark1" as the last line

>>4828554
Awww yiss

>>4828554

>>4828583
Only problem is my framerate's fucked. I assume that's configuration and not something wrong with the new version.

>>4828587

>>4828591
>5

>>4828595

>>4828634

>>4828640

>>4828595
>>4828602
>>4828634
>>4828638
>>4828640
>>4828643

Stop it, my dick can only get so hard.

Is The City the best fictional place in all of video games?

>>4828851
Yes.

>>4828554
>>4828583
>>4828587
>>4828591
>>4828595
>>4828602
>>4828634
>>4828638
>>4828640
>>4828643
You get this from the newest release of the engine or something?

>>4828583
Take a couple of screenshots at 1066x768. I can't help but think that rendering in such a high resolution is going to be worse than rendering in a lower one.

>>4829557
See >>4828218

>>4829557

>>4829560
>1066x768
That's not a real resolution taffer

>>4829560

>>4829639

>>4829650

>>4829652

>>4829662

>>4829665

>>4829668
crunchy as fuck

Some Fms cause why not.

more spiders please

You get some interesting results with custom textures if you don't force 32 bit textures. I don't think that has anything to do with the new version though.

>>4829803
I mean, obviously it has an effect but it is nice in some places and others it turns into ms paint scribbles. Like a reverse hd texture pack.

What was this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWFVFrmhCKY

>>4829896
I swear I'll get to updating this. At least I waited until the texture filtering info is relevant.

Aside from disabling tex_filter_mode and tex_filter_trilinear, is there any other options to make this any more old skool?

>>4829910
I followed the instructions from your previous version of the guide, but the shadows are very blocky. I used Tfix Lite.

open cam_ext.cfg
mipmap_mode 0
tex_filter_mode 0
;tex_filter_trilinear
;square_parts_as_disks
;pixel parts_as_disks
movie_sw_scale_quality 0

>>4829949
If you updated to the version that just came out it should work as long as you didn't touch any of the options prefixed by "lm_". If you didn't update, it won't work and blocky shadows are expected.

>>4829957
I used the updated version of TFix Lite. My guess is that you only have to do
>tex_filter_mode 0
and it looks just like those screenshots above.
>>4829632
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZwH978z6CI

>>4829965
Screenshots above were with
;mipmap_mode 2
tex_filter_mode 0
;tex_filter_trilinear

fuck if I know what a mipmap is though.

>>4829989
Swell!

>>4829957
not the anon you're answering to, but I had the same problem. once I installed the new tfix lite, it worked.

>>4830046

>>4830048

>>4830050

>>4828494
Holy fuck nice
Still wish there was a way to get genuine 256-color software mode working though

>>4830223
How hard would it be to make a screen space post-processing effect that replicates that look?

>>4830240
No idea but I'd love if somebody was able to do that. I never got to play the game that way.

>tfw you remember Thief 4 was real and not a parody somebody on /v/ thought up

>>4830273
Yeah, I remember when I got my first 3d accelerator card I was disappointed that the shadows in Thief became lighter. The completely dark shadows used to actually be pitch black in Software mode.

>>4829585
whoops
>>4829639
>>4829650
>>4829652
>>4829662
>>4829665
>>4829668
>>4829670
Yeah, that's the kind of shit I'm looking for
Still, I think the relatively high polygon count hurts the aesthetic. Would be interested in seeing what this would look like on a CRT for that in-hardware anti-aliasing, though.

>>4830223
>>4830240
? Never heard of this.

>>4826721
I think you have to play this one on hard. Expert is broken?

>>4829989
>>4830000
Also had
;square_parts_as_disks
;pixel_parts_as_disks

Generally speaking, what's your least favorite thing about a mission (official or fan)?

>>4830452
when there dew drops and glass cutter guild and yes i think glass cutter guild is canon :)

>>4825479
The Opera House and Mages Guild are my favorite TG missions. Just so big and open and full of secrets and taffing.

Just finished Thief gold for the first time and goddamn it was good. Took me 32 hours, I can't remember the last time when I had so much fun with a game. This game made me feel like a kid again. Now I started playing Thief 2 and so far it's been really good, I've been told it's even better than the first one.

>>4830295
When I look at Thi4f trailer I can just imagine what the executives and other fat cats behind that project were thinking
>yes yes, make everything look dark and gloomy, no colors allowed, colors are not edgy
>put some epic orchestral music on the background, we're making a serious film here! also because we want to trick kids to think this is skyrim
>what about batm- I mean garret? just put him in bondage gear and give him black eyeliner, whatever

I'm so fucking pissed what they did to Garrett. Was the medieval hooded sneakmaster not cool enough? Why did they make him look like someone who shops at hot topic? Jesus fucking christ he also does that "jumps down knee first on the ground, raises his head and looks menacingly under his brow" thing.

>>4831385
>I've been told it's even better than the first one.

believe me, it´s not, i replayed both game last winter and i´ve enjoyed more playing the first game

>>4830319
The objectives don't work? I still have to finish this one, I'm having a hard time getting through it for purely enjoyment reasons: Wrichards decided to get serious and instead of correcting the mistake that tainted the Tower of Illusion he repeated it with more resolution.
Guards everywhere, covering the same patrol routes in corridors that lead to corridors. While looking at the challenge that awaits me and thinking "That's impossible" is one of my favorite part of playing stealth games, in this case more than a challenge this platoon of hammerites is a giant obstacle that one wants to dispose of in the most optimal way, waiting in a dark corner and ambushing everyone who comes through. Interesting level design and smart enemy placement make the challenge.
Also a lot of locked doors of dubious importance. They become important only because they hide something from the player, but this is something that must be done wisely and with measure. I still have to open most of these but in the Tower they mostly protected a key that would open a door protecting another key. Let's see how this goes.

>>4831818
I think Thief 1 has higher highs and lower lows, but Thief 2 has a consistent quality somewhere below the greatness of Thief 1's best levels.

>>4825346
Why is it that mostly Thief and Tomb Raider have this literalist interpretations? No one complains about creative license regarding other game titles that much. Imagine if in DnD you weren't allowed to steal from a crypt as a Thief because "it's not breaking into homes and stealing shit". Fuck's sake.

>>4831875
>tracing the courier
>kidnap
>casing the joint
>masks
>soulforge
are bad and at the same level (or lower) than thief 1 worst missions. The only consistent quality of thief 2 OMs is their overall sense of dullness.

>>4831853
That too. I have completed my loot goal, but it doesn't thick off. Some guards can be killed without repercussion. Some doors can be bashed in and prove they are just for show or ambience. This FM started off promising with this mystery surrounding the inhabitants of this Hammerite compound. Later, it turns into a gauntlet against revved up Hammerites (I swear their movement speed is increased) and a button/key hunt. Wrichards is nice enough to provide hints regarding some of their locations. However, there are also scripted confrontations. If you alert one of them, 10 of them will come after you. I'm savescumming my way through this. Perhaps I'll try a stealth approach on my second playthrough.
I finished trial 1 and 2 and I already know the secret. Too early?
By the way, do you know the location of the key leading to trial 3?

>>4831853
Also, Wrichards commented on the playthrough by Nexus Letum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3k254efwj0

>WOW never thought Id see this played again. back then there was no real way to record gameplay on the cheap ;)... anyway thank you for the run through, I do have a few comments.. first off as soon as the level started it was apparent the lighting was not right, should be MUCH darker, but ok.. noticed almost imeditly lots of things missing as far as details fleshing out the level, I think this must be an eariler version than I remember... anyway so manythings I noticed was removed or missing made it almost unplayable from what I saw. most likely the level was changed by years of emulators or such. anyway this level was made in about 1 week, it pushed the limits of the editor and should have been in 3 parts buts no one knew the limits then and when I found it it was too late to break it up so i had to limit all the activites down ot about 1/4 of the origional plan. the upper level had some cool aspects you didnt see, the seance room where the guy is leveitating, oh and BTW (spoiler: the exit is the drain in the floor of the bathroom ;) so many scrools and such were part of the origional plan so some didnt make sense.

>>4832216
the mid level with the 4 chalenges were watereed down as the editor couldnt handle the # of polys and such I was doing, the wall you removed in the skull chalange was a trigger that closed you in after you entered, this was bugged and was the ENTIRE lower chanber with the giant spine/skulls... that room was totaly unfunctional.. missing stairs missing walls etc. origionaly you would enter there would be stairs. after you found the crawlspace to the left of the throne and pushed all the switches, you could then get the sceptor... NOW all the stairs are retracting and the walls are raising releasing the baddies.. non of this worked and seems all moving walls were removed or not functiong... they all did work at one time though ;0 anyway once you gave the sceptor to the stature ALL level was totaly repopluated with undead ratmen etc. then th exit and complete screen happen when you exit the grate in the floor of the bathroom.... again really sorry this level was in the shape you played, most everything was non functional and missing.. i think the level was tampered with over the years,, which isnt a bad thing, makes me hapy people suck with it :) thanks again for playing it Id LOVE to play them again... wrichards

>>4832216
>the mid level with the 4 chalenges were watereed down as the editor couldnt handle the # of polys and such I was doing, the wall you removed in the skull chalange was a trigger that closed you in after you entered, this was bugged and was the ENTIRE lower chanber with the giant spine/skulls... that room was totaly unfunctional.. missing stairs missing walls etc. origionaly you would enter there would be stairs. after you found the crawlspace to the left of the throne and pushed all the switches, you could then get the sceptor... NOW all the stairs are retracting and the walls are raising releasing the baddies.. non of this worked and seems all moving walls were removed or not functiong... they all did work at one time though ;0 anyway once you gave the sceptor to the stature ALL level was totaly repopluated with undead ratmen etc. then th exit and complete screen happen when you exit the grate in the floor of the bathroom.... again really sorry this level was in the shape you played, most everything was non functional and missing.. i think the level was tampered with over the years,, which isnt a bad thing, makes me hapy people suck with it :) thanks again for playing it Id LOVE to play them again... wrichards

>>4832212
>By the way, do you know the location of the key leading to trial 3?
This is the second time I didn't see the key in plain sight, because it blends with the background?

>>4831912
Tracing the Courier isn't so bad IMO. Lasts a little too long, but I always enjoy sneaking through the city.
Literally forgot about Kidnap. You're right about this one.
Casing the Joint is fine. Masks is a little less special since you've gone through the level already, but is similarly fine. That's Bonehoard level for me.
Soulforge is good, not sure what you're on about here.

>>4832273
Being able to go back through the entire level and kill Mosely makes the courier level worth it.

>>4832273
>Casing the Joint is fine.
>That's Bonehoard level for me.

I like Casing the Joint. The unoccupied second home of a nobleman is a comfy aesthetic and I like the way all the loot is tiny hidden pieces so it's kinda like playing Bonehoard on normal.

>>4832372
>It's inconceivable that someone doesn't like Bonehoard

After installing Tfix Lite my icon changes from the Dark Project symbol to the image of the Thief Gold game box. I can't seem to revert it?

>>4833747
You could always edit the shortcut icon yourself

>>4832221
I should have listened to you and play this with dromed from the beginning. Got to the broken part, the sanctuary with the holy water fountain, and I'm probably gonna redo all this with AI disabled or phasing through walls in a true act of ghosting since at this point I wanna see how this ends.
The core of the mission, its heart, isn't all that bad. The keep appears normal, although heavily guarded, but it hides many secrets between its grey walls. You know from the get go that something went wrong and while you explore the place you find two versions of the story: the one told by the oblivious hammers, or the lies told to them, and the truth behind the trials and the scepter. And I'm glad there isn't a forced order for these readables. Depending on where you end up, you can get more or less close to the truth. Some of the rooms tell their story by themselves and the way things gets progressively worse is neat. My favorite must be the hammerite of the third trial.
But for every good idea there's a step back. Good visuals entrapped in halls that all look the same. A switch hunt that makes sense and it's not too frustrating slowed down by a key hunt. Interesting rooms connected in a way that requires constant backtracking. A story written with care to be read before the text disappears after a few seconds. Trials you accidentally stumble upon, while they deserve to be the focus of the search.
I'd like to say I want to see Wrichards try his hardest the next time, but apparently this will be all. There's something about what he tried to do I really like.

>The Haunted Cathedral's lootgoal

>>4828583
Is this what I think it is? Nearest-neighbor texture scaling but bilinear sampled shadowmap?

>>4830305
>those small side towers in Bafford's place that are pitch black, at least in the demo
>slowly crouch-creeping at lowest possible speeds, not able to see a thing except the tiniest hint of outlines when something is right in front of your nose
>holding breath as a guard can be heard prowling around somewhere as well looking for you
>still finding a few spare coins forgotten in the darkness
no game can ever really capture this again

Confession: I have not replayed the haunted cathedral/return to the cathedral in 20 years
they were so terrifying to me in a way no other game or movie ever has been in my entire life I haven't been able to work up the nerve since then

>>4835721
I skip it after getting the eye, because that part is pretty fun every time just because I don't like the random quests.

>>4835768
You can do the whole fetch quest thing in a about 5 minutes if you know where to go and what you're looking for. There's really no set order that you have to follow and you can pretty much skip most interactions witih murus. In the end, the fetch quest isn't that much different from normally exploring the map for loot.

>>4835809
>you can pretty much skip most interactions with murus
Why I never
I might run it through once to memorize where everything is and actually play this mission in full again
Thanks for letting me know

>>4835719
In the Bonehoard the route that takes you to the escape tunnel is completely dark in software mode. The first time I played the mission on Expert I had to fumble around in the dark listening to my foosteps to make sure I was still moving, while scanning around for any sign of light. The scary part is that right at the edge of the darkness there's a short bridge without railing, so you could take that one wrong step just as you thought you were safe.

So Tfix adds a fence in the keepers hideout in The Haunted Cathedral. What are some other changes in the OMs made by Voodoo47?

OH MY GOD WHY DO I HATE CASING THE JOINT AND MASKS SO MUCH WHY GOD WHY ARE THEY SO BAD

>>4836995
they're great, you're bad

>>4836552
a similar fence in bafford's. somewhat justified by the fact that it's 100% unclimbable without nudark, but still a bit too much of a liberty to add.

>>4837019
said no one ever

>>4812962
how big is his schlong?

Downloading these in advance after I'm done with the main campaigns. Any more recommendations?

>>4837854
that chart is a big fucking meme. most of them are shit.

>>4837854
Tell us what you like about the OMs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP-ISAq_5TY

>>4835209
It was an unfinished mission to begin with. It started off so promising. He seemed to be learning from his mistakes. What a shame.

The frozen Hammerite priests are such a weird sight.

New FM for Thief 2
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148916

>>4842226
And another one, again from a new author (I think)
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148939
Is it me or has there been an uptick in newcomers the last couple of years?
I was thinking we'd have to wait until November for anything to come out.

I realize that Sperry's probably not the most popular author here but I have to admire his dedication. It's been what, 16 years since he last released something? And he's still chipping away at old projects. I wonder if Undercroft or the Shadow of Doubt remake will be out by 2030.

>>4843524
Now this is interesting, some new screenshots from White Lies, which may or may not be an addition in the SoD remake.

>>4843713
Older pics

>>4842226
played through it last night. it was okay, but the architecture felt uninspired. most of the city scene in the beginning didn't serve a clear purpose, and could just as well have been cut. still an okay mission, though.

>>4843467
finished it just now, and boy was it a fresh breeze. constantine's mansion-style reality warping trickster trickery is oddly rare in FMs (only example I can think of at the moment is the house in The Pentinent Thief). I don't really have any more specific commentary on it, but I did think it was great fun. I'm looking forward to the continuation.

Which sort of arch do you like more?

>>4843742
1 is the only answer

>>4843746
Wrong. 2 is more tedious to make but consumes far less cells than 1.

>>4843742
Second method, you can also do gothic arches that way.

SPIDERS

>>4844121
Have an example?

>>4844169
Look at the gate in the screenshot.

Which FM do you think had the best readables?

>>4843467
>Since it's not a dream, might as well grab some loot
Oh Garrett.

>>4840273
In fact, some of the bugs end up adding to the grim atmosphere of the monastery. For example the hammerites that spawn when you enter certain rooms have intangible backs. You can't hit them from behind and you can walk right through them, but they're back to normal when you're in front of them. Given that the first had appeared when I was in Peter's room, for a brief moment I was at the start of a ghost story. There's also at least two hammerites that act as an item you can pick up, appearing as dead when you're carrying them and coming back to life if you drop them (too bad you can't throw them).
Confusing stuff that goes against what we know about this game. Shunned did that on purpose, but this one takes it to the extreme unintentionally. Can't say I didn't enjoy this FM, after all.

The forced search state is another weird but interesting idea. A permanent one would be too much, but it's too easy to wait for them to stop searching in this case. A middle ground, a few guards in a permanent search state, wouldn't work in this mission or situation. I can imagine it in a particular building in a city mission for example. Somewhere you won't stay in for long, like in Undercover. It's probably just to show the player how the monastery is in a state of alert anyway.

>>4844209
I see. I actually had some arches like that without intending a gothic look but I ended up rounding them out.

Whenever I open an OM in Dromed, I only see the lightning and objects appear in the three viewpoints (top, right and front). No brushes. When I open an FM it doesn't happen.
How come?

>>4847243
stop opening links

>>4847578
They stripped out the terrain brushes before they shipped the game to save space or something. The missions with those brushes should be in EDITOR/MISSIMONS.ZIP

>>4843467
Every mission should change the pipe sounds like this, they can be so annoying to deal with.

>>4847740
Missimons or missions? Either way, can't find it?
There's a thread on TTLG with the unstripped versions of the OMs, but it 404s.

>>4847763
missions
That was in my T2 directory, turns out my TG one doesn't have an EDITOR folder either. You can download them all here: http://www.thief-thecircle.com/teg-old/tools/

>>4835670
Not all that difficult your third or fourth time around, but boy did I struggle with that on my first rodeo. It's not that difficult to achieve, but I remember passing up much of the loot to avoid fighting burricks and getting anywhere near the zombies. It was on Normal so it was only 750 if I remember correctly, but I spent 1-2 hours just roaming through the level trying to find some extra loot. I ended up finding that mansion with the serpentile torc, which was exactly how much I still needed.

Enemy avoidance plus some obscure loot placement fucked my shit up pretty good.

>>4847770
Thank you.

>>4817186
>>4820168
Are you lads playing all the FMs in order or something?

>>4849018
They're going through them in chronological order I believe.

>>4849018
>>4849052
Exactly, we're done with the first year and almost on the road to T2.

>>4847243
Door face is the best Thief meme

Anyone else here playing missions without saving? I've found it gives a totally different tone to the game.

>>4850868
It's a good feeling, but I suck at thief so I die sometimes and have to start at the beginning of the mission

>>4849052
sheeeit I'd get in on this if there wasn't so much to catch up on.

>>4850868
Sometimes, but I make an exception for quicksaves on dangerous jumps, rope arrows, and ladders.

>>4850939
I do the same. I don't think I've died in Thief in ten years in any other way than falling. If I use saves, I use them for glitchy mechanics that can kill me regardless of my skill. If I die because of my own incompetence, I'm not using one of those saves to retry.

>>4850939
We are around 'Oblivion' by Wrichards and 'Prisoner's Revenge' by Vitus. We played 34 TDP FMs so far. The more the merrier.

>>4847592

>>4850939
Consider that most of these FMs are short and easy, at least for now. If you want to catch up fast though we could point out to you the more interesting missions so far.

I opened a FM I made with Dromed 1.25 in Dromed 1.26 and a lot of objects are missing. Where is the sandbag? Where is the bottom of my blackjack? Why do I hear the sounds of wooden planks when I jump on a bunk bed?

>>4852297
>Copy, paste and overwrite in Thief Gold game folder files contained in Tools\Thief1 Gold Newdark Dromed
Idiot

-And I'm telling you that the only stench hardier than your rotting Burrick of a master is the liquor on his feted breath

>one of ours has been broken, his life poured out

>>4853280
>tfw you quickload and hide the unconscious person better because you feel bad about spooking their buddy so bad

Any members from TTLG here? What do you think of downwinder?

>>4853391
High level wizard.

>>4853391
Should've been banned long ago.

>>4853391
retarded retard

Couple of retard questions:
1. I want a sound to play the first time a player opens a certain door. So I followed the advice I found repeatedly through google and set up a controldevice link between the door and an soundtrap which is in turn linked to the schema in question. In order to have to sound play only the first time the door is open, I set the Trap Control Flags Once and NoOff on the soundtrap. The sound plays properly, but it happens whenever you open the door. What do?
2. How does one deal with the uneven lighting caused by objcast lighting and doors?

>>4853532
Disregard the second question. It was just one door giving me trouble and I replaced it and now it werks.

>>4853592
Or maybe not - I relit the level another time and it happened again.

>>4853280

>>4853532
Trap Control Flags doesn't work with soundtraps. You can link the door to a destroytrap and link that to the soundtrap so that it gets destroyed after being activated once (you may need to use a relaytrap between the door and the destroytrap to make sure it doesn't get destroyed before playing)

>>4853601
That's just how doors work, not really anything you can do about it.

>>4850868
I give myself "checkpoints" when I feel like I've made significant progress, but I try really hard to avoid abusing quickloading. Even really careful guard patrol/noisy floor placement can be defeated if you quickload again and again trying to get the perfect moment to blackjack guys without being detected. It makes sneaking so cheap. I try to play naturally and survive my alerts if I'm detected, whether that means burning a flashbomb, running away and trying a different section of the level first, or fighting it out if the objectives allow it. Sometimes I like replaying missions on Hard just so I can get into swordfights now and then as punishment instead of reloading a save.

>>4815156
You can totally bumrush most guards with the dagger and murder them.

The trick is that the sword has a big hitbox on it that deals damages whenever it's touching you, so you just run at the guard, stab 2-3 times and back off when they draw (to avoid taking damage from their draw position) and then while they are still frozen for a second in the initial draw position, rush the side of the guard and strike 2-3 more times. You will take 1 hit at most.

>>4823401
Bump for interest

>>4850992
>'Prisoner's Revenge' by Vitus
Finally I've got what I was waiting for, a prison break FM. The Bear Pits is the first but nothing quite beats starting inside a locked cell.
But it doesn't focus too much on the prison, the enviroment changes as you change building and that happens even when you're done with your objective, while escaping: going from the guardhouse to the haunted grounds and finally the hammerite church is a satisfying escalation and. Pleasingly symmetrical too: up, down, up again, the whole mission is like that.
I'm so used to seeing hammers everywhere that that cross behind the altar felt extremely wrong. Maybe a reference to those hammerites not being regular hammerites? Anyway, it makes me wonder if we'll soon come across the first FM clearly not set in the Thief universe.


This note becomes kinda ironic in hindsight. Only magic can explain some of the hidden button that will come after this one.
Also I've lost count of the "strange sounds from underground" readables.

>>4815156
Thats my problem with modern stealth games, is they are so fucking shallow, the stealth system ends up being crouchwalking everywhere while the guards back is turned, and thats it. It was okay for a game like sly cooper, but now every stealth game has the same basic bitch system.

>>4855062
I forgot my main point, you can disparage ds all you want, but its level design and mechanics are still miles ahead of modern stealth.

>>4853532
>>4853592
>>4853807
does the sounds is like, the sound of the door or something? why it has to be connected wit hthe door?
when it comes to sounds playing just once, i simply put the marker in the place where i want it to be heard, i lower the range to like 5 or 7 and add removeprop flag. thing is you just have to put it in the right place so it plays when i want to.

what i do wrong? i want the text to be displayed on top of the screen. got ofc str file in the folder and it works when i add book>art, like a book, but thats not what i want.

>>4856548
It's a sound cue that should play when the door opens. I considered something like that method but I think the somewhat unusual placement of this door and things around it would make it hard to get right.

>>4856587
I added a "strings" folder (with nothing in it) to the same directory as my .mis file and that made it werk. No need for StdBook.

>>4856749
hm, strangely enough i deleted both frobinfo and stdbook and it works now. cheers

i've made some max payne textures to be usable in dromed. potential? Only advert and signs tho. things like walls and floors need additional sound, looks like shitton of work. but neon signs have potential

>>4831906
Imagine if Tomb Raider had zombies.

>>4831906
the idea of how thief gameplay is "supposed" to be is entirely retrospective. to be more precise it formed after thief 2 was released. that's also where we got the meme that the thief concept was "unfinished" at the time 1 was release and didn't blossom until thief 2.

ultimately, lytha's survey teaches us everything we need to know about undead haters:
>underage, likely haven't finished high school
>play on normal
>only played through the original campaign once, sometimes not even that
>tend to have stronger negative opinions about missions, e.g. they only articulate their opinions with "I HATE X"
>tend to have a more negative opinion about the rest of the game as well
>unironically hate zombies because they're scary

>>4856851
also, I quote lytha:
>Now, a short analysis of the people who enjoyed 'RTC':
>They played the game many times. They had a high educational level. They gave the least preferred mission a good score. They, dear interested reader, could indeed be the people who replay the game for several times, and who enjoyed the entire game really much.

in short, if you like thief, you like undead missions.

What's the correlation coefficient? What's the alpha?

I know several anons turned off texture filtering as a curiosity after the latest nudark release, but how many actually stuck with it for normal play?

pic rel is me playing The Fiend.

Is the raw data of the Lytha survey available?

>>4856820
breddy gud :-DDD
If you get the rest of the textures I'd totally be interested in a mission set in a modern city.

>>4856875
I kept it on too. Looks nice.

>>4856875
I do, easier to see good shadows with it

>>4856884
Which FM?

>>4856887
Augustine's Revenge

>>4856875
how to turn texture filtering of?

>>4856919
1. have latest tfix version installed (lite if you're a purist)
2. set tex_filter_mode to 0 in cam_ext

just bought thief 1 on steam, itstime.png

/vr/ has convinced me to give this a shot, I hope its as fun as it looks! c:

>>4857056
enjoy, just dont forget >>4829896

>>4856875
Not just texture filtering off, I've played the whole game in software mode several times

Any recent "spooky but still a regular robbery" levels recently?
I recently replayed Rowena's Curse and I'm out of ideas.

>>4857461
have you played ominous bequest? it has the same "mansion with a dark secret dwelling on ancient ruins" theme that rowena has.

>>4857506
Yes.

>>4857461
Lord Edmund Entertains?
Project Hammer: Secret Connections?

>>4857461
isn't broken triad kinda like this?

>>4857520
Project Hammer is crazy, I wish I could make such a mansion.

>>4856875
Where did you dl that mission? I want to try it but can't find a working link.

>>4857697
Nevermind, overlooked it due to ctrl+f-ing "The Fiend" instead of "Fiend, The".

>>4858812
is this from the anniversary contest? it's beautiful. I really hope the contest sparks an increase in T1 fm authoring.

>>4858856
It's what I'm working on for it, and it's my first so you got at least +1.

>>4856820
IT'S GARRETT, WHACK 'IM
HACK HIM DOWN

>>4858812
comfy/10

>>4858856
>>4858870
Not to mention, I think all of the few fms that have been released so far this year are by new authors (vegetables, proliffia, marbleman, mtk).

>>4858812
>gen 7 games on top
>gen 5 games on bottom

Is there a way to make brushes the player can walk through? I need a broken window the player could go through easily, and I don't think T1 has an object for that like T2 does..

>>4855001
But we already played a prison break FM called Payback by Tern? That one also had a changing environment (prison, sewer and mansion). In that mission the sewer was very convenient. Here the second part of the FM, the catacombs, seem a bit out of place? It is there to prolong the mission. What a coincidence the back door is closed at night. After you killed the betrayer, it becomes a gauntlet. As we have experienced so far, the motivation behind the murder is revenge. It is always a bit of a shock to see the Keepers so vulnerable. There is dissent among them and simple guards are aware of their presence. I think some people compare the Builder to God and the Trickster to Satan.

>>4812992
I played them all in order a few years back. Yeah, it's fine. It's more of Thief really. I liked the mission where you move around on rooftops. Also, liked how you had to sell your own stuff and how you can practice lock-picking in your home. These were interesting additions. All in all, I'd say play it.

DEAR BURRICKS

>>4858856
This contest gon be good.

>>4858812
Arches (cell efficient ones!)
How do I into light properties?

>>4860035
What do you want to know about lights?

>>4860051
I guess how to employ them sensibly for gameplay. I've heard that you should set a radius for every light and I've read this
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140345
Although I still haven't gotten a feel for how the settings actually work.
A lot of missions which I've enjoyed and never noticed any issue with lighting don't seem to set light radii at all and the same seems true of many lights in OMs that I've checked. So, it seems like changing those settings could screw with people's expectations. So, any general advice or rules regarding that.
I'm also curious as to whether there's any reason to use light brushes or hacklights over the other.

>>4860085
Infinite radius shouldn't be used for a few reasons. First, it can drastically increase the time light takes to process, and second infinite radius means that there will not be black areas at all unless the light is stopped by solid geometry.

I usually go with radii of 32/40 for the most intense OmniLights, and usually around 16/24 for indoor lights such as torches (you can go for 32 for electric lights since realistically tend to produce more light). You can also use the inner radius setting to have another, very intense spherical radius. A good value for a light with radius 16 is to have an inner radius of 14, so there is a visible outer rim to the light, so to speak.
If you still want a very, very strong light that reaches very far, it's better to have a radius like 500 than 0.

Light brushes are very limited, it's usually far better to go with HackLights as they're a lot more flexible and can be configured as you wish.

>>4860103
Thanks, that already helped with some problems I had.

There's a Thief: The Dark Project run on the schedule of SGDQ 2018. Huh.

whack
http://thief.wikia.com/wiki/Spectre

When I open a footlocker, the lid goes through the solid brush. What can I do about it?

>>4860921
I know next to nothing about DromEd but I suspect you'd have to make a brand new prefab(?) with the same mesh but a different animation that only opens the lid part way.

>>4860921
I don't think you can control the lid, so the best/easiest solution would be to move the footlocker to another place.

>>4861017
>>4861198
I multiplied the depth, width and height by 0.70

>>4860921
You can change the Tweq/Joints property to alter the open angle

>>4860882
>inb4 it's NewDark

>>4861861
It's not. Also the runner smashed the world record for olddark today in pre-GDQ practice by almost 4 minutes.

>>4861909
Woah nelly, I'm excited then

>>4861861
I know the mantling is better in NewDark but I can't recall any places where you can break the level design with it. I know the limitations of the old mantling and the geometry of the level design like the back of my hand and I can't imagine it being overpowered in any way that's useful.

>>4861921
you can break your bafford playthrough by mantling a pipe and subsequently the facade, and then jumping into the area accessed through the back entrance.

>>4861931
...and trap yourself without any ability to continue on to Bafford's throne room and the actual objective?

>>4861940
That's correct, you can't get back to the regular level. There are a few more places where you can get stuck like that, like in Return to the Cathedral and The Sword in front of the balcony. It was possible under olddark in the case of The Sword, but newmantle makes it easier.

>>4859118
Oh right, and I remember really liking that one too. Not only it shares with Prisoner's Revenge the swift enviroment transition, but also how condensed those enviroments you're traversing are. While in Payback you couldn't explore completely both the prison and the manor, in this case each building or phase of the mission is complete but simple, and it connects with the others without taking too much space.
At this point I'm sure I'm gonna forget about this one and be delighted again by the next prison break FM like it's the first. I wonder if there's one where our thief doesn't even start with a lockpick.

The prison itself seems to take inspiration from Cragsclet by placing a stationary guard watching over a cell block. But unlike that prison and the one in Payback, this one is ran by the city watch. Glad to know that the hammerites don't hold all the power in the City.

After Torben this is the second mission where the player is sent to deal with a traitor protected by guards, and one of many where you have to deal with a dangerous foe. Assassins share the podium of "boss like npcs" with haunts and priests.

The trapdoor guarded by the haunt is an interesting idea: you know very well what will happen if you make a mistake, it's a trap meant to threaten, not surprise, the adventurer. And those spikes are something entirely new, unless I'm forgetting some specific moment from TDP.

>>4843742
So how do you build a vaulted arch with the second way?

>>4863383
Use an air cube to carve the entirety of the arch surface and then create solid wedges that follow an arc.

>>4863390
No, not vaulted arch. I meant to say "groin vault".

>>4863406
Ah. You can use solid corner-apex pyramids for that, in all four angles. That's a lot of terrain brushes but the cell count is much much lower than when using two air cylinders.

>>4863418
Like this?
I put two on top of each other.

>>4814504
>Different anon here, I honestly don't see why Deadly Shadows is worth bothering with
Not him, but there's one thing in DS that makes it worth playing : the Cradle. Out of all the crap in that game and how meh it was, I fucking loved the Cradle.
And leaving the widow get what her husband left to her.

>>4863439
Yeah, just like this. Just make sure you select Align by sides when making these.

>>4863468
Thanks!

>>4860921
Man. Checking all the cut content in Thief is depressing.
>'Waking the Dead ' - Idea for a Necromancer mission for T2Gold. Would have featured the Venom Blade, Ghouls, Summing chamber with Demon. This would have featured The Book of Ash as well as ties to the Trickster, and the Mages. An outline for the Briefing has Viktoria send Garrett on a mission to destroy the Book of Ash because of the Mechanists interest in teaming up with the Necromancers. An alternative briefing was to have Garrett found out, after the fact, that he should have stolen the Book of Ash and now has to go after it. This mission was also known as 'Necromancer's Castle (early stages)' and possible placement was directly after 'Casing the joint'.
>Necromancers - Possible AI for the mission 'Waking the Dead' would have featured two different types of Necromancer. Ones which were Mages, and ones with Daggers.
>Ghoul - A possible idea of a 'Ghoul' created which is fast, reuses the ApeBeast mocaps, but with new sounds, fast claw attack, and 'eats the dead'
>The Balmoraal - A demon with small non-functioning Wings. There would probably be a couple of these in the mission as Garrett cannot kill it, but needs to final a dead one to use one of it's horns

I really like the fact that we have people that focus on details like precisely what kind of arch to put into their levels

>>4863650
I really dislike the idea of demons in Thief. It just doesn't work for me.

>>4863687
I'd love some more leafy abominations.

>>4863691
I'd love to see Dryads or other shit like that. I've also always found the concept of a mortal god that's not overpowered to be very interesting.

>>4863712
And I loved the idea of a God who doesn't hate humans but doesn't want technology to marches on.
Also Viktoria was spooky as fuck with her fingers turning into giant vines.

>>4840187
man, whoever this is sucks at thief

Is there a less worse way to wrap stairs around a wide cylinder?

>>4864569
Well shit nevermind. Rectangles stopped snapping weirdly.

>>4863687
There are demons in Thief. Bugbeasts are supposedly not found in the normal world and the spiderbeasts are chaos-born creatures. In fact they too were originally supposed to be humanoids with 6 arms and black widow coloration.
But yeah, there's really no place for traditional infernal demons in Thief since there is no hell or heaven.

>>4864991
Interesting. That makes sense since the equivalent of Satan is the Trickster and whatever pagan realm bad Hammerites go to.

>>4865056
There's no evidence to suggest that the setting has afterlives. Everyone either dies or is left haunting the world. Even the Trickster was mortal. If something that can't die of old age but does die of A BOMB qualifies as a god, then Tolkien elves are all gods. The Master Builder probably never existed at all, or he was a man, or several. Probably an ancient innovator in technology who uplifted the species with the discovery of metal and proper construction.

>>4865059
spooky

>>4864991
The spiderdemon and bugdemon got cut and the latter replaced with the bugbeast, though, and I don't consider the chaos-born creatures to be demons. They're just chaotic beasts. I find that far more interesting than "oh, here's your traditional demon thingies".

>>4865056
>>4865059
I like to imagine that the Master Builder was the first man to build a house and was made a god later by other men, thus not being a 'real' god like the Trickster (and it could be possible that the Trickster isn't even a god but a powerful creature passing as one). I also like to imagine that these two aren't the only gods around and the game is more like the Greek myths in that regard, but there is zero evidence for that and it's all headcanon.

>>4865168
The Trickster seems to defend an ideology rather than incarnating one. The maw of chaos doesn't look very leafy, so there's a chance that, as you say, he's just a powerful creature trying to push humans to live his way.

>>4865168
Well, whether things from the Maw are demons or beasts is semantics really. It's just that we don't see bugbeasts at any time other than when the Trickster started bringing his army from the Maw, so I just assume that the designers probably intended them to originate from a different world. Could be wrong though. The blue craybeasts that are only found in the Maw are barely different from the yellow craymen, and craymen are native to the normal world.
The Trickster was definitely just a powerful creature that had dominion over lesser beings in ancient times. But even his powers were limited. Afterall, he was driven to exile by the power of... hammers. As soon as people were able to build sturdy walls and sharp swords to keep the beasts of the wild at bay, their old god was powerless. Keeper magic is in fact more powerful than the once mighty forest god because he needed the power of a keeper artifact to gain an advantage over the modern world. It's kinda sad really. He could never get over the fact that the old days were gone and that cost him his life.

>>4865275
:(

>>4865275
So the Trickster is basically a very grumpy grandpa mixed with a magical radical Amish.

>>4865327
More like an old celebrity whose days of influence and glory are long gone and he refuses to accept it, but instead of attention-whoring and manufacturing controversy he attempts to tear apart the fabric of reality.

>>4865335
So kinda like DarkSydePhil.

>>4865335
I can sympathize with the Trickster, honestly. He's almost a tragic villain, unlike Karras who's very one-dimensional and just a genocidal maniac.
I think the Hag is the best villain, though. I wouldn't even consider her a villain per se, and she got discovered by chance and doesn't actively seek to harm people* or destroy the world as we know it.

* she has to kill people to take their appearance, though.

>>4865342
The Hag is really interesting : you only go after her because she attacks you first because of a prophecy saying you'll be her bane.
It's some kind of weird paradox.

>>4865353
That's kind of the point. She tought she could manipulate the prophecy that was designed to start from her own corruption and lead to the failsafe, but her attempts were in fact part of the design.

>>4832341
>this is canonically why Mosley never shows up again in Thief
=O

>>4835809
>>4835768
It feels silly to respond to this 2 weeks later, but my first time through the Cathedral, I didn't see the eye, so I ended up going through the ENTIRE complex, and inadvertently fulfilling all of Murus' objectives before grabbing it. Then he's like "Oh Please help me!... Ok, now that you've done all that, meet me by the grave!"

I was a little confused.

>>4865370
Dude... You must've been real confused the first time you go to the cathedral, since it sits in plain sight and doesn't move.

>>4865378
Especially since in order to get into the cathedral you have to play through an earlier mission where you walk in front of a window and The Eye floats right there on the other side. You'd need severe short-term memory problems to not know exactly where it is when you get into the mission.

>>4865397
That's exactly what I was referring to. It doesn't move between The Haunted Cathedral and Return To The Cathedral.

By the way, while I'm finally in a Thief game, what was the deal about the Bonehoard? I remember being utterly confused by some stuff in that place, like talking traps, hauntings spawning for a duel, and the burricks digging giant tunnels.

>>4865403
The Bonehoard is just a massive D&D dungeon and it's glorious.

>>4865409
I remember hating it and loving it. It was a very wild ride from beginning to end.

>>4865403
>>4865409
>>4865412
This anon (>>4825420) so concisely phrased it in a way that I will always remember

>>4865378
>>4865397
I felt stupid afterwards. I just didn't see the little thing on my second visit, so I thought it had moved somewhere else and I had to explore to find it. So I searched every nook and cranny, until I looked back and said "oh"

It is funny to hear the Eye try and spook you by saying ESCAPE WITH UR LIFE TAFFER LOL but there is no one left to attack you. Get dabb'd on, Sentient.

>>4865474
That explains why Thief 2 is a lot harder than the first one.
>cameras
>sentries
>robots
>enemies that you can't blackjack

>>4865480
If you think of them as stealth games first and foremost, Thief 2 is easier than Thief 1. The missions in Thief 1 where you only encounter monsters and undead are not really designed to be stealth compatible. Those missions assume that you're going to kill a few things or at least not care that much about being detected. In Thief 2 every mission was designed to be stealth compatible.

>>4865498
I think you're right. When I played Thief, I only considered human enemies to be worth avoiding, I always killed the others.
Thief 2 in general is a better game with secrets and bigger maps, but the first game left a strong impression on little me.

can anyone here recommend the Dark Mod? Anything good been made with it?

>>4865515
I tried it a while ago, it's not made for intensive savescumming, it crashes if there are too many quick saves. And also, it hated opened doors for some reason, would slow down considerably if you opened one.

>>4865073
that's a big haunt

>>4865360
>>4865353
pre-destinaton is fucked up

>>4865504
>bigger maps
That's really debatable. Some of them are huge and about as big as the biggest TDP levels (Shipping, Bank, LOTP) but some are smaller than the average TDP level (Interference and Eavesdropping in particular).

>>4865504
>secrets
Minor nitpick but I always hated how thief 2 handled secrets. Most of the time they feel pretty pointless and artificial, like the devs just put them in to give players something to look out for. The chime and text popping up when you find one also feel rather condescending. Thief 1 had secrets too, but the way they were implemented felt much more natural within the setting.

>>4862134
The traitor is fast. It's the same 'creature' seen in Shadow of Lord Rothchest. Walk backwards, swing your sword and you kill him. Maybe use the flash bomb. It is not a very exciting fight with this "boss like NPC". We talked about this before, on how to improve the AI (increased movement ability). I searched the TTLG forum a little bit. It seems there has not been a lot of development in 20 years regarding AI and/or information about it is scattershot.

The trapdoor was 'meant' to threaten. A moment before you find the solution to the puzzle and the haunt can be dealt easily with by backstabbing. This part of the FM is a bit of an annoyance.

>>4865629
With Thief 1, I was never sure if they were secrets or just objectives for harder modes.

Scammers' speedrun of TDP starting https://www.twitch.tv/gamesdonequick

>>4865703
>Scammers
?

>>4865168
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkje6bG3Tm0

>>4865275
>the trickster was a nostalgiafag

>>4865705
Both charities they donate to are shit.

>>4865718
Doctors Without Borders?

be cautious, young garrett, for those who disrespect thy ancient and sacred practice of dilation shalt be punished by the master builder for his sins

>>4865703
>spend my entire afternoon exploring Constantine's mansion
>guy does it in 2 minutes
Fuck off.

>>4865703
>"Thief Twenty Fourteen"
Why don't Americans say two thousands fourteen?

>>4865774
Because one is shorter.

>>4865720
Doctors smuggling African economic migrants across Europe's Borders.

>>4865804
Wrong board. The conspiracy go to /x/ or /pol/.

>>4865629
Did Thief 1 even had secrets? I just remember the devs' thanks, maybe the shortcut to Bafford's throne room, the secret stash in Return to the Cathedral when you help the ghosts, and a few really crazy rooms in Constantine's mansion, but otherwise, it was pretty simple.

>>4865774
Linguists agree that twenty-eighteen is the correct pronunciation based on precedent - we didn't call it one thousand nine hundred ninety nine, we called nineteen-nintey-nine. Therefore it is wrong to use two thousand eighteen.
This isn't hard to grasp and this pronunciation is not strictly the province of Americans, any English speaking country would and frequently does pronounce it this way.

>>4865958
>Linguists agree that twenty-eighteen is the correct pronunciation based on precedent
That's a fancy way of saying "we did it like that and I'm too lazy to change also I love the imperial system metric is for scrubs".

>>4865984
obsessed

>>4865629
>the devs just put them in to give players something to look out for.
>the chime
Come on man, like 50% of Thief 1 and 2's design is an Easter egg hunt (the loot requirements). Seems a bit silly to complain about secrets being tucked-away things that go bling! when you find them when the games are stuffed with other things just like that.

>>4865629
>The secrets in Blackmail don't enhance the story at all guys a DUUUUUUURRRRRRRR

>>4866630
why do people with shitty opinions on thief always take their examples from thief 2?

do you seriously think hearing a loud, explicit "BING BING WAHOO" everytime you venture slightly off track makes the game more immersive?

>>4866662
>complaining about shitty opinions
>liking immersion
You are a shitty opinion

>4866668
>no arguments
Not even worth a (You).

The first time I played Thief 2 I didn't get any notification or text that told me I found a secret. That didn't stop me from looking around for more loot to steal.

>>4865342
I kinda like that common point between Dark Souls and Thief, where even gods can be killed.

>>4865703
Even this speedrunner decided to shit on the creator of NewDark by highlighting that mantling over the door in the keeper compound of THC was possible in OldDark and there was no reason to make the wall higher.

>>4867159
NewDark or TFix?

>>4867226
Isn't TFix the mod that includes the newest version of the engine?

>>4867226
>>4867254
NewDark is the fan name for the new engine made by anonymous people who have access to the source code (or a portion of it).
TFix the a mod for Thief 1/Gold that includes NewDark in addition of arbitrary changes just because the author can.

>>4865634
The problem with assassination objectives is that they're usually dull. What makes them different from regular treasure objective is that the trasure is gonna fight back, but they're alone and most enemies in Thief don't know how to deal with someone who walks in circles. Making these assassinations more challenging and varied could be the solution, the same way sometimes getting to frob the shiny artifact isn't as easy as it looks.
For example I never felt the need to use the bow to kill a target from a safe distance. Only in Payback, but there was no other choice. And using my tools is usually only a way to have some fun and avoid a regular duel or the usual backstab. I hope we're gonna see an evolution of this kind of FMs along the way.

You're right about the trap part. The two puzzles in the mission share the same solution and for both of them there's the same hint. It would have been nice if the author asked from the player to believe the captain's words, "middle way is the best way", and find out that that they're indeed true by applying them in a different situation. But if the mission spells the solution for you twice the whole thing becomes a bit stupid. Not to mention you can push the buttons from a safe distance by leaning forward.

>>4866760
cry harder you pudgy bitch

I missed the Thief run at SGDQ, anyone got a link?

>>4868057
http://twitch tv/videos/278099010?t=15h26m22s

>>4868058
wew the shoutouts made me feel warm and fuzzy

>>4867943
>Making these assassinations more challenging and varied could be the solution
How?

Where can I download "Thief Rare and Unused Models (T1)" by Catalyst?

Finally getting around to updating the guide. Is there anything about the T2 complete resource fix pack that could be considered objectionable? The only thing I've ever noticed is that it fixes LotP's fog, which is good.

>>4867943
They are not alone. So far all the targets have been protected by guards and/or surrounded by servants. You have to be silent, although some FMs force you to do otherwise.

Lord Edmund Entertains!
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90551

What do if I get pic related trying to place certain objects (any bed in this case). I checked around but didn't find any advice.

>>4872367
I kinda prefer to use the bow.

>>4872427
That's an invalid object that never existed in the game's files (it was most probably removed during development). They used to crash DromEd before NewDark too.

>>4872512
That's odd, but also a relief.

LotP is shit.

it's one of the most linear missions in the series, and the architecture is boring and uninspired. angelwatch is depressing and boring to explore.

the demo version (uninvited guest or whatever it was called) was slightly better and offered an alternative way to angelwatch, where you'd approach it from the front and climb the facade. that was more fun than the more linear version we got in the final release, but the main problems still persist.

>>4873496
I agree completely, definitely the most overrated mission in the series. A boring obstacle course of a first part, with a big yet empty and boring building taking up the next part, and finally a return to the starting objecitve with freshly spawned enemies that just don't pose any threat to the player because they can't navigate the environment.

>but muh theebes hiway xD
Assassins did pretty much the same thing but better in every way.

One day while Andy was making a thief map in Dromed, Woody got NewDark. He could no longer help himself! He watched as Andy browsed through his juicy kawaii paper sketches of a map he's making. He approached Andy which startled him and make him drop his notes everywhere on the floor and on Woody too. Being covered in his scribblings made him more motivated than ever!
Woody: "Andy Senpai! I'm alive and I want to master DROMED."
Andy: "Oh Woody Chan! I always knew you were alive! I want to stuff you up my kawaii custom gamesys file!" Woody grabbed his laptop and turned Dromed.
Woody: "Oh my! It's DromEd Final 1.25 MSVC for Thief 2! Thief 2 is my favourite! Woody then stuffed his head up into Andy's monitor to learn Dromed! The other toys around the room watched intently as Woody moved his mouse back and forth mimicking Andy's nice cube brush placements , continuously making a portalizing bell noise. The other toys also became intrigued and they all gathered around Woody and Andy and started to turn on their computers, and then they started to turn on Dromed.
Andy: "Oh my goodness, Woody Chan! You are copying my RelayTraps so well! Your WXAD skills are stimulating my imagination! OH YES!
All the other toys became so intrigued by this, that they could not help themselves anymore! They pushed Woody completely on ttlg forum, and they all went inside. All of them wanted to be inside Andy's nice new FM thread.
Andy: "No wait guys! My thread cannot hold this spam! We will get banned! All the toys typed their opinions of poor concerned Andy's new FM, and pretty much, because of too much banter, Andy was permanently banned and link to his FM was removed. The mother came inside and found Andy, banned with a huge browser window on his monitor, with a HUGE ttlg forum tab full of banter.

>>4873496
I agree to an extent. It's a lot of fun the first time because there's a lot to see on the rooftops and it gives an illusion of being more open ended than it is. On replays it is pretty bland and I never liked Angelwatch.

>>4873935
>paper sketches of a map he's making
>not just making shit up as you go along
Andy's a pleb.

>>4812992
The game itself is great, but even with the newest Sneaky Upgrade, you'll still unfairly lose due to glitches. This is a real problem because overhearing enemy dialogue is one of the best parts of the game, but a lot of it might randomly not play.

>>4875046
>Sneaky Upgrade
Elaborate. I don't remember ever having an issue with that.

any fan mission recommendations for someone who wants more TDP after TDP?

>>4875904
gems of provenance

>>4875904
The Hand of Glory, The Saint of Redmound, Shadow Politics, Endless Rain and Dirty Money should be right up your alley.

Its actually fucking amazing how well Thief aged.
Even more than HL or any other.

The only thing I would slightly improve are the models, those guards carrying swords unsheatheed all the time got to me even back in the day.

>>4876425
Some of the Vince McMahon walk animations could be improved, too.

>>4876432
Only the craymen walk like that and I'm pretty sure they're supposed to walk weirdly.

>>4875904
A thousand times this >>4875942
and these >>4876160
And the recent Lord Robert's Painting.

>>4876432
I like the animations because they're larger than life. Even better with the old guard models that had no necks, making them look that much more brutish, and they do a perfect job of conveying an NPC's state.

>>4876432
Yeah you mean the weird double step sound? Or just the animation.

>>4876593
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLBUd3r1y3I
Morrowind had the same problem. Thief 2 fixed it a bit.

how much technology is there behind the swordsplay in thief? do the sword arms move separately from the rest of the animations? the animations of your opponent and the one of your own arm connect pretty well when you block.

a shame the attacks are too quick and hard to block to make swordplay a viable option. it seems like a feature LGS had more plans for.

>>4876790
Swordfighting was a big part of the concepts that preceded Thief.

>>4876790
It was meant to be big in Dark Camelot. But they needed much more time, and man considering what they already did with the stuff they had was incredible.

At best we could've had something like dark messiah.

>>4872367
They are in guarded rooms, in buildings full of guards, but never in a situation that would make our ex-thief, now assassin, think "How do I do this?"
What I'd like to see is the act of killing a npc being a challenge in itself, and not something that's challenging because it's at the end of the mission. Same goes for certain items to steal, worthy of being a true trial to the player's skills.
I'd say that Cavador is a good example but it's been to long since I played that mission. The target being escorted and immune to the attacks one would likely use against multiple guards definitely makes things more interesting.

>Lord Edmund Entertains!
Never played this one before, time to make up for it. A benefit of this retrospective of ours is that I'm finally catching up on the classics.

>>4872367
>>4876810
Some old but still somewhat relevant thoughts.

>>4876818
>this was 14 years ago
>everything got worse since

>>4876818
>>4876851
I feel sad that I missed the hey day

>>4876818
I don't get it. What is he complaining about?

>>4876864
play rocksbourg and you'll understand. it wasn't made yet when that post was made, but it perfectly illustrates what he's talking about.

>>4876851
I don't think so. There are less FMs but the good:bad ratio is pretty good, much of what came out during the height here was disposable. Occasionally you get some full retard shit like Keeper of Infinity but most new authors from the last few years seem more vanilla inspired than what he's talking about.

>>4876571
I think a lot of people missed it, but TDP was clearly intended to be a cartoonish game rather than a realistic one. the characters all looked like caricatures with exaggerated traits, and the voice acting helped convey this feel.

the overall art direction with the heavily stylised colour scheme also contributes to this.

>>4876908
Definitely, and it's right there in the animated cutscenes. The colors in Thief 1 are amazing.

>>4876908
Oh, it's cartoony all right.

And then this happen just as you think the game is over and you finally gave a fuck about the story : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv8XsblW17A

>>4876874
Most new releases seem to be protracted "muh story" missions that fall into most traps that post mentioned, or authors that just seem to be trying to make carbon copies of skacky's missions. Older missions were much more rough around the edges but also more varied and original. Every author now seems to be ticking off boxes from a checklist when making a mission.

>>4876990
You guys are never happy, I swear.
If an FM "ticks off boxes from a checklist" so it's made to be good, you're whining. If an FM has an emphasis on story, you're whining. If an FM tries to imitate one prominent author's style that actually doesn't suck, you're whining. And I'm pretty sure you'd also whine if the FM was rough around the edges.

I'm not saying that every FM is good (that would be a lie), but your post is in bad faith. Some of the few FMs that were released this year outside of the upcoming contest are very good, don't have an emphasis on "muh story" as you put it and also are pretty interesting in their own right. Curiously, I don't see them discussed here much.

>>4877049
>If an FM "ticks off boxes from a checklist" so it's made to be good
I think for the most part it just makes a mission bland.
>If an FM has an emphasis on story, you're whining
I'm complaining about an excessive emphasis on story that is in detriment of gameplay. Missions that need to shove their stories in your face no matter what and force you to endure boring camvator sequences and long ass readables that are nothing more than exposition dumps, or missions that are simply badly paced and have lots of nothing (or reused content) filling the gap between exposition (the classic trick of stretching a single mission into a campaign for cinematic effect). These usually go in tandem with linearity because these authors really don't want the player to mess up their cinematic experience.
>If an FM tries to imitate one prominent author's style that actually doesn't suck, you're whining
It's not just the style, it's really the same fucking mission being done over and over again.

>>4876990
Who's making copies of skacky's missions? Melan's are similar, but it's skacky's missions that are essentially variations on Disorientation, and he hasn't made anything on the Dark Engine in ages. And there's Squadafroin but he's a collaborator with skacky so the similarity is to be expected. Not to mention he has like two missions in the last few years - hardly an epidemic.