/vr/ - Retro Games

>recent accomplishments
Finally beat level 3 in R-Type Delta. Had to use the RX Cerberus. Got a game over in level 4. I've been juggling other PSX shmups over the past couple weeks, namely Zanac Neo (made it to level 3 here, I like Hammer Duke's #6 weapon with the multiple targeting black hole bombs) and Thunder Force V (made it to the Rynex battle)

>Ikaruga coming to PS4
Awesome

>>4852916
Fuck off.

>>4852941
Warum denn?

I can get to the extend threshold in Sengoku Ace now

>>4852960
>Warum denn?

Keine Ahnung.

>>4852982
Pre-1945 S.Nakamura shmups are so dull... why even bother with them when the scoring hadn't become refined yet

>>4853024
I enjoy shooters for survival. Though yes, 1945 was when they got really good, I'm just playing this one since I still like it.
And it's not like they never focused too much on crazy scoring. Maybe I'm wrong since I'm inexperienced in quite a few of their games tho

>>4853026
Meant ever instead of never

brother love

>>4853035
best stg

thank you based treasure

what's the best psikyo shump, and why is it dragon blaze?

>2cc Psyvariar Revision on my first try
Is... the game supposed to be that easy?

>>4852916
Are there any actual non bullet hell schmups you guys would recommend? I was told they exist.

>>4856324
There are hundreds, you're gonna have to be more specific anon. Horizontal? Vertical? Scoring-focused? Simple? How high should the difficulty be? Gradius and Toaplan games are safe bets for classic horis and classic verts respectively.

>>4856170
it's a scoring game so some low score shit clear means nothing and you didn't get the hard stages or tlb either, dumb ass.

>>4856372
I got one stage called 'hard' at the end. Also that's a shitty excuse, you should make the game challenging by default instead of having to play for score to get the most out of the game. What a piece of shit.

>>4856389
>hurrrr every dev should make every game the exact same

Nah you're just fucking dumb and can't see it's actually a great way to create something for everyone's level in a single game on mechanics alone. Plum cunt why don't you try actually learning something for once? i doubt you even got x-c let alone x-d because your score and level are a fucking joke and your pea brain thinks its about HURRR DODGE DA BULLITZ when psyvariar isn't about that at all.
Anyways where the fuck is shmupg? I don't want to mingle with these low i.q low skill worthless scum shite smears.

>>218906824
>If you get into the genre via classic stuff like Toaplan, you're a hipster dad shitter
I started playing with R-Type and Gradius myself, you fucking retard. Not sure if stupid or just a troll. Either way stop strawmanning you dumb cunt.

>>4856512
>I don't want to mingle with these low i.q low skill worthless scum shite smears.
Shmupg is the same tho. Especially that lying spic who constantly blogposts about his shit scores dragged it down a good notch lately.

>>4856552
nah shmupg is home and retardo is fine, at least he injects something and knows more than this shit hole.


>>4856552
>lying spic
Also known simply as a "spaniard"

>>4856561
>retardo is fine
Yea sure, lie about clears you never achieved and act like an authority although you don't know shit, and completely twist things people say is totally fine.

No surprise hearing this from the chav tho.

>>4856565
>the kraut feels threatened by the conquistador

So basically he proved you wrong on something stupid you said and now you're going nuclear as usual?

>>4856569
No, he is just an annoying blogposter and strawmans like a fucker. He is a liar (still lying about his Strikers trilogy 2all) and a retard.

>>4852916
the metal slug games are on sale right now on steam and i'm having a blast, i've got an arcade i go too so i'm usually used to playing these on stick but its nice not needing to go out to play these.

>>4856572
he does that annoying thing of like announcing it's a blog post and apologizing for asking questions, i figure he wants to get good but didn't want to be treated as beginner so probs lied about the clears to get his foot in.

Anyway wtf happened to shmupg? thread deleted?

>>4856575
>he wants to get good
Lmao no. The tard knows he can't get good. He just wants to keep game jumping cause that's the only way he can play.

Don't care about shmupg. That place is dead apparently.

>>4856575
Nobody bothered bumping it and it got archived, typical stuff

>>4856580
You should care, it's your home as an anti social pedo schizoid.

lmao always on the mods mind, stalking me like a gay bandit.

Sad to see the nice arcade banter removed AGAIN...
Oh well, I made a new thread:
>>>/vg/218953560

>>4856710
Heading there now along with my mod shadow who comes to smell my fart.

>metal slug
Style over substance 30fps trash.

Go play Contra.

>Contra
Gimmicks, lack of difficulty and boss spectacle over substance. Go play Rolling Thunder

>>4857421
>Gimmicks, lack of difficulty and boss spectacle over substance. Go play Rolling Thunder
The 8-bit Contras don't really suffer from the things you said though, aside from lack of difficulty, but you have to have played the games a bunch to get to that level.

>>4857445
You can always 1CC the NES Contras for a more arcade-like experience

>>4857445
They do, first one has those stupid pseudo-3D levels."A bunch" meaning a few hours and then you can loop them until you get bored and have to do self imposed challenge runs. Face it kid, Rolling Thunder is simply the patrician choice.

>>4857463
Fuck you, those pseudo-3D levels were awesome.

>"A bunch" meaning a few hours and then you can loop them until you get bored and have to do self imposed challenge runs.
Post you're timestamped Super C webm's.

>>4853035
play mars matrix

>>4857479
no anime characters in that game

i'll pass

>>4857470
How do you timestamp a game webm? But sure name a boss or hard part of a level and I'll show you a cheesy strategy to beat it, damn near everything is exploitable in this game. Earthquake segment? Get to the right of the screen after a boss and keep running, 100% safe. Falling ceiling bit? Hitting the ceiling doesn't stop your jump momentum so you can just jump over pits even when it's lowered

>>4857484
>How do you timestamp a game webm?
webcam your hands next to a piece of paper that has the date, along with showing the game footage from your CRT

>But sure name a boss or hard part of a level
do the whole game in a single run broken up into 2-minute webm's

or upload the whole video to something like pomf.space

>>4857491
hell no, too lazy to set that shit up

I'm plying Arrow Flash and its really disappointing.

>>4857491
>webcam your hands next to a piece of paper that has the date, along with showing the game footage from your CRT
Does anyone actually do this?

>>4857981
Some speed trannies use hand cams

>>4858006
>speed trannies
this mental image. kek

>i beat a game
>"poast you are scores and videos with hand cam and crt feed while streaming on twitch with twin galaxies referees on standby or YOU ARE LIAR!"
Yeah, it's getting old now.

>>4858036
The ridiculous demands like handcam and real console are a way to prevent the person you're challenging from actually providing proof, otherwise it'd be inconvenient for the person asking. For anyone reasonable a video or a stream is more than enough. With easy games like Super C just talking is enough to tell how good someone is at the games, the skill comes from just knowing the strats, execution barrier is tiny. Only exception is the random mouths in Area 6, never did find a good way to deal with those besides holding forward, mashing and praying.

>>4857634
I didnt like it

>>4858036
funny thing is I still thing majority of records in various games are still tool assisted or cheated in some way.

Bump because I fucking love the OP image

>>4858036
This may be the only genre that gets this

>>4858036
Just in case, this isn't me, Retardo. I'm not that much of a faggot. And they have every right to doubt that shit.

wot u plyin

>>4859231
kusoplyin sengoku ace, game over right before the final stage of the first loop

What are some games similar to Fantasy Zone or Defender? Where it's like a shmup, but you have more free movement and it's not auto scrolling? Bangai-O is a little like that as well. Most traditional shmups bore me, but I really like those games.

>>4859261
when you settin up a jewtube stream, spainbro?

i wanna watch sum psikyo

>>4859231
Rolling Thunder 2, learning the last stage and wew lad it's hard. Practically playing a stealth game at this point

>>4859338
Aren't there better Psikyo streams? No idea since I don't watch any of that stuff
I'm considering it due to something I posted on the /vg/ thread

>>4859280

Not retro but Syder Arcade plays like Defender and Fantasy Zone.

There is also Terrafire and Astrofire which are non traditional and now free.

http://www.ortsoftware.com/tf.html

http://www.ortsoftware.com/af.html

vertical shmups>horizontal shmups

>>4857421
rolling thunder is fucking boring

>>4859631
A bit unfair since horis almost disappeared after a point when verts were still being made

>>4859635
t. played it for 5 minutes, got btfo and quit
It's anything but boring, the games are a constant assault of highly dangerous enemies that can kill you in the blink of an eye. They're even tense as all fuck if you take your time, but trying to keep your pace up puts them on a whole 'nother level. That's not mentioning some of the ammo conservation strategies

>>4859654
contra's objectively better. the combat is way more satisfying.

>>4859658
>changed the complaint to something even more vague
Looks like I hit the nail on the head. And no, even doing the easiest levels in Rolling Thunder quickly is far more satisfying than anything in Contra, it even looks cooler, like something out of an action movie

>>4859614
Cool thanks, I'll check those out. That screen looks a lot like Asteroids which I didn't like quite as much but did play a lot back then and I'd say I liked it better than normal scrolling shmups. Also non retro, but Geometry Wars was a lot of fun for me too.

Just finished printing Mambo and Samba.
What other ships would look cool to make?
Thinking maybe Twinbee or Winbee.

>>4858736
>it's totally me
>god, i am a gigantic faggot
>please violate my anus
>i care way too much about old video games
jej

>>4859665
>i have a desperate need to fight with people about meaningless shit on the internet
>this is how i validate my otherwise useless existence
lel

>>4859861
It wasn't me, you may be right about the rest depending on how you see things tho

>>4859870
I didn't ask you for your life story anon

I'm making a seaplane shooter.

>>4860080
Mouse controls? Really?

>>4860082

No, foot trackball. Fire by shouting. Bullets can be purchased in packs of 100 from the store API.

>>4860082
Not mouse control. D-pad plus one firing button right now. I'm going to try and keep the HUD and actual mechanics very simple by not adding a large amount of extra weapons or powerups. My fav. has always been galaga for how easy it is to pick up and play.

>>4860094
Or just design the game around WASD / d-pads / arcade sticks, you know.

>>4860105
Interesting, then did you add acceleration or something? It doesn't look like the movement of an arcade shooter

>>4860080
Is that friction? Don't do this.

>>4860109
>>4860114
Weird, it might be a video artifact or an effect caused by the plane banking or the ocean pattern. In-engine it has no acceleration or physics applied to it.

>>4860128
Maybe

>>4859906
and no one asked you to start offtopic shitposting, but here we are

>>4860287
It was neither shitposting nor offtopic (they're run & guns, a subset of shmups). You're a retard.

Is Dariusburst Chronicle Savior any good? There's an obnoxious amount of DLC and every ad for it claims it has hundreds of stages. Trickery?

>>4860321
No but its just variations on stuff you've already seen. Arcade mode is good but hard to play without a dual monitor set up. DLC is just some extra shit, nothing major. Pirate the PSP game and use it as a demo.

>>4860332
Wait, it's literally the PSP game upscaled? Fuck that.

>>4860337
No, the PSP game was used as a basis for an arcade game, then that arcade game was ported in Chronicle Saviours along with a missions mode unique to the CS which is where all those levels are.

>>4860294
>(they're run & guns, a subset of shmups)

>>4860382
It's true, moron. Shoot 'em ups is a wide genre, there are many different styles of games within it. Just because space ship shooters are the dominant style doesn't mean they're the only one that falls under the label. First time posting in these threads?

>>4860397
>Shoot 'em ups is a wide genre, there are many different styles of games within it.

https://youtu.be/mUF3299XqLc?t=23m27s

STG weekly went to stunfest, and uploaded this absolutely mind-blowing DaiOuJou white label run by fufufu. Great commentary too, so check it out.

>>4860451
Now that right there is shitposting

>>4860468
>implying 99% of vr even cares about high level play or play full stop

it's all collectors and losers here who actively show hostility to actual good players because they had how it reminds them of how incompetent lazy and shit they are.

>>4860397
Run n Gun games are not a subgenre of shmup though you retard.

>>4861078
Yes they are brainlet

>>4861078
Shoot em up refers to arcade games where the main focus is shooting
Within this, there are many different subsets. The most common one is the 8-way autoscrolling format (vertical or horizontal, such as Flying Shark or Gradius), but then you also have run and guns that either don't autoscroll, are horizontal and you're subect to physics like jumping (horizontal, like Contra's main levels)
don't autoscroll but are top down without horizontal (Out Zone)
autoscroll and have jumps (Chelnov, Wolf Fang), and autoscroll and top down but feature terrain and characters moving on the ground (Guwange)
There are even more subsets, they started with the fixed shooter one after all (Space Invaders)

>>4861127
don't autoscroll but are top down without JUMPS* (Out Zone)

>>4861086
>>4861127
This board has gone goofy extreme lol.

>>4861132
By actually knowing what were talking about and explaining it instead of just making baseless statements to try and justify a mistake?

>>4861138
Got im

Just so you stop making a fool of yourself:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoot_%27em_up

Check how this has Wolf Fang, an autoscrolling run and gun, alongside other more typical shooters

Actually run 'n guns are a hybrid between platformers and shmups, not a subset of shmups.

>>4861460
A lot of jumping in Out Zone, eh

>>4861483
Outzone is an on-foot, non-autoscrolling shmup, not a run & gun.

>>4861491
>on-foot, non-autoscrolling
So a run and gun
"Run and gun (or "run 'n' gun") describes a shoot 'em up in which the protagonist fights on foot, perhaps with the ability to jump. Run and gun games may use side scrolling, vertical scrolling or isometric viewpoints and may feature multidirectional movement."

>>4861493
No, RnG's need platforming elements in order to be RnG's, see Metal Slug, Contra, Gunstar, Makaimura, Shinobi, etc.

>>4861501
>Makaimura, Shinobi
Is Rockman a RnG to you then?

>>4861506
Not really. The emphasis there is more on platforming than shooting, unlike Arcade Shinobi and Makaimura games, where learning enemy placement and patterns takes precedence.

>>4861514
That line is quite blurry then. The Rockman X series de-emphasizes platforming in favor of shooting enemies, for instance. It's like a spectrum then.

>>4861170
>this thing I added to the wiki makes it fact
Speaking of making a fool of yourself.

>>4861725
Now that's desperate

welp, r-type final is shite. thanks for making me waste a blank disc, kraut-kun

>>4862069
We warned you. Now go play Mars Matrix

>>4861501
No they dont, one of the pioneering games, Commando, was top down with no jumping. Why are you guys so clueless? Contra style run and guns are mixes of platformer and shmup, but they are still shmups because that is where the focus lies. Just like how Twinkle Star Sprites is a mix of a shmup and a vs puzzle game, but still a shmup.

>>4862183
This, calling Makaimura a shmup is REALLY stretching it. It's an action platformer that has throwing/shooting attacks

>>4862189
I can kind of see it, especially with the second game, but yeah it's too far on the platformer end of the spectrum. This just goes to show that neither shoot 'em up nor run and gun have particularly concrete definitions, they're always used loosely. The japs are the exact same.

>>4862234
You have the pure shooter format (Flying Shark) and the pure platformer format (Wonder Boy), but yeah stuff blends.

>>4861946
Exactly my point.

>>4862234
>This just goes to show that neither shoot 'em up nor run and gun have particularly concrete definitions, they're always used loosely.
No, they're definitions are fine and universally accepted. They only come into question when someone needs to shitpost. The genres "shoot 'em up" and "run and gun" are separate and well-understood. One is also not a subgenre of the other, despite wikipedia edits to the contrary.

>>4856324
>>4856339
Can I piggy back on this request. Are there any with good narratives and more roleplay aspects than just shump mechanics. Beyond that I'm not looking for anything particular?

>>4862338
>Are there any with good narratives and more roleplay aspects than just shump mechanics.
Undertale

>>4862327
>No, they're definitions are fine and universally accepted
No they aren't, even if we exclude run and guns from the genre (which is stupid), you're still left with a genre that has everything from fixed screen shooters, to multidirectional shooters, to arguably even 3D ones like Starfox and Panzer Dragoon. Also post your sources and/or a good definition if you want to make the case that it's a seperate genre. The definition given a bit ago is terrible as it excludes half if not more games in the genre, including pioneers like Commando and Ikari Warriors.

>>4862338
Some western games are like that, such as Tyrian. This isn't the right genre for you if you're looking for that though.

>>4862338
Roleplay aspects in a forced scrolling genre? You're joking, right?

>>4862396
I mean, Gradius's power meter was apparently inspired by leveling up in RPGs. Also, what >>4862356 said.

>>4862408
What's your source for that? Gradius is older than Dragon Quest so that'd be interesting to know, since that'd mean the devs were fan of old CRPGs.
Still, not only is the Gradius power meter pretty much confined to that series and spin-offs, that stuff isn't "roleplay elements". A forced autoscroller isn't the format to roleplay a character, you can't make more decisions than shoot, move and some extra stuff (shoot bombs, activate power ups manually, etc.)
If you're talking about progress systems then I'm not aware of any /vr/ shooter that has unlockables, level ups or any of that stuff between each session like in the case of roguelites. Ikaruga and Mars Matrix for the Dreamcast come a tiny bit close but not at all really.

>>4862416
http://shmuplations.com/gradius-machiguchi/

>Around the time of the first Gradius, the concept of “power ups” in STGs had not yet been clearly defined. Games had systems where the weapons you started with stayed with you from beginning to end. But we thought that was boring. We thought that it might be interesting to add some kind of bonus items.

>At that time, Western computer RPGs were coming into Japan, and “building your character” was a kind of new gaming buzzword. We were thinking of ways to bring that concept into the STG genre. Nowadays it seems rather obvious, but back then it was a combination no one had thought of yet. We also wanted to add other “adventure” aspects to Gradius. We planned a system where once you cleared a stage, you’d have a branching choice of where to go next. But in the end, due to memory space limitations, we couldn’t add that feature.

Although if you just want proof they were fans of CRPGs then you don't need to look any further than the "Lord British" ship.

>>4862437
>We planned a system where once you cleared a stage, you’d have a branching choice of where to go next. But in the end, due to memory space limitations, we couldn’t add that feature.

kek I love how they say something like this about nearly every classic Gradius game, yet never managed to implement it after all that time. Good opportunity for Darius to distinguish itself

>>4862437
>Although if you just want proof they were fans of CRPGs then you don't need to look any further than the "Lord British" ship.
Touche. Still, it's a vague inspiration at best. Progression the way it is in RPGs just doesn't work in the arcade environment. Capcom truly tried with the D&D arcades but it's still firmly an arcade bmup.
Interesting how Taito ended up doing the route stuff.
I've never been a big fan of either powerups or bombs in shooters in general, I'm pretty purist in that sense. I enjoy a lot of the games but despite that.

>>4862449
How can you enjoy Gradius despite that? The power up system makes it, it adds so much strategy and variety combined with rank, would be a very boring game without it. It's the modern shmups where upgrades make very little gameplay difference where they suck

>>4862458
I mainly enjoy the enemy patterns. The power up system in Gradius really doesn't add that much strategy except in maybe some later games (Gaiden), it's just something you have to build upon that also makes the game nigh impossible to recover after a death. Probably would have worked better with maybe 1-2 options and a more limited weaponry but no power ups, but hey, those are my tastes. Still great games.
Because really, no matter how fun your ship is, the fun is in the enemy and stage design.

As an example, you can have a game where your ship is super standard but it being fun due to the enemy formation and pattern design (Flying Shark, and this isn't a modern bullet hell), but then you have euroshmups with dozens, even hundreds of possible weapons to choose from but shitty level design.

>>4860128
super strange. that plane is almost definitely accelerating in the video.

>>4862464
Some recoveries aren't balanced well, but the concept of recovering is very exciting, and only possible with these kinds of power up systems. It's a different kind of playstyle compared to shmups where you're always at full power, and does add strategy because you have to build your routes around recovery. And what about rank management early on? R-Type has extra depth and challenge from speed ups, like playing at max speed for score

>>4862352
>even if we exclude run and guns from the genre
>proceeds to spend the rest of his post including run and guns in the genre
>inserts even more random crap later
So Super Mario Bros. and Dragon Quest are shmups. Got it.

>>4862491
>avoiding giving a definition

Funny how I've been posting about run and guns in these threads for years without anyone batting an eye, but then some retarded newfag decides to take issue with it

>>4862495
>he thinks i'm the person who took issue with it
>he thinks these threads have been going on for years
Is this larping? lol

>>4862591
Right so Im dealing with 2 clueless newfags instead of 1, big difference. And yes these threads have been made somewhat regularly for over 3 years, especially before all the players moved to /vg/. Check the archives for /stg/, newshit

>>4859858
Goddamn. Really cool senpai.

>>4856324
Horizontal shmups like Gradius and Thunderforce aren't bullet hells and have bits of scenery that you can collide with and die, so they sort of have a platformer feel to them.

Also, pretty much any vertical shooter made before dodonpachi (i.e. anything pre-1996) isn't bullet hell. The Raiden games, the Soldier games on the tg16, twinbee, radiant silvergun and ikaruga fit the bill.

>>4859280
Theres that weird sega 32x game where you play as a hummingbird. It kind of has the fantasy zone style of letting you fly around levels freely. Sorry I can't remember the name atm and I'm phonefagging but it's interesting and easy to emulate

>>4862338
Yes, but they are frowned upon by elitists.

>>4859858
That's cool af pham. Do Goemon or Rupa next

>>4862338

>>4862618
>this thread, that's had a general on /vg/ for centuries, has been going on here for millennia
>everyone is a newfag! they're everywhere!

>>4862759
lmao are you illiterate
/stg/ isn't the same as /shmupg/

>>4862775
>this thing has existed here even though it's existed in a different form on /vg/ where it actually belongs for years now
wat?

OH SHIT LADS

cave is streaming some shumps rn

twitch・tv/cave_shooters

>>4862827
/stg/ is a series of /vr/ generals, you shit-for-brains waste of space

>>4862840
who?

>>4862848
>i just like to make up random bullshit and fight with people online because my life is miserable
To each their own, I guess.

>>4862913
Don't you have an RPG thread whine about progressfag in?

Is the /vr/ mirror of the thread really worth it? This run and gun newfaggotry shit has been asinine. "hey I don't know shit and don't even care about the games, let's argue semantics and genres because run and guns like Contra, Metal Slug and the Treasure games are more popular and I have tried those instead!"

>>4863002
>implying the faggot even plays Contra, MS or Treasure
It's become pretty obvious he's just here to derail the thread, originally the whole Contra/MS discussion was fine and stuck to the games.

>>4863018
Notice how I said "tried". Probably GDQ spectating fags instead.
Anyway, even in the 80'ss these games were called shoot em ups, and it included both autoscrollers and run and guns.

>>4863002
Rather have discussion about run 'n guns than endless weebfaggotry spam or shitpost battles between eurocucks like the /vg/ thread.

>>4863590
>weebfaggotry spam
Nah, that's just one poster to bump so the thread doesn't die
Those "shitpost" battles are your typical arcade banter, I appreciate it to an extent.

>>4863601
>Nah, that's just one poster to bump so the thread doesn't die
Don't have to worry about bumping here, thus proving the /vr/ thread is superior.

>Those "shitpost" battles are your typical arcade banter, I appreciate it to an extent.
Most of the time their little spats aren't even on-topic. If they actually talked about shmups there then the shitposting might be more tolerable, but nope.

>>4863652
>Most of the time their little spats aren't even on-topic.
Lately yes, I don't know if this has been true every time.
Still, /vr/ has the following issues:
>Can't discuss newer games. Not much of an issue to me at least, but it's an issue
>Stricter mods and a clash between /vg/-/vr/ crossposters and the resident /vr/ community, that is less into these games and gets triggered by the usual (natural) arcade elitist attitude
There's definitely some trade-offs. In contrast, /vr/ only offers being slower, but a bit of bumping aside this isn't an issue.

I like R-Type Leo.

>>4863878
Nice spin-off

>>4863878
For me, it's Gradius Leo, the best retro shooter.

How do you get past the regenerating wall in Gradius V? I just die over and over, even with max power ups.

>>4864528
Stay in the second opening until it fully recovers, start shooting and move to the rightmost part of the screen immediately and stay there

>>4864528
Shit like the sponge wall or having to fly backwards in the gas stage is why Gradius V is shit. Fuck Trashure.