/vr/ - Retro Games

I don’t recall there being a “right” order unless you mean chronologically by release date.

Duke is like a million times better game than fuckling Flood.

>You'll never slip your dick into that warm, tight, hand pussy

Did you play all 6 episodes of Blood AND Death Wish?

Blood > Shadow Warrior >>>>>>>>> Duke

I know what you mean, just zooming through the level at sanic speed and meatshotting everything with the double barrel is heavenly, nothing compares

>>4794604
>3 levels in and I gave up on the prison

Duke is better than blood nerd blood is great and does cool things with build but duke is the king

>>4794604
Duke is better so no.

>>4794604
I played Blood first and I couldn't get into Duke. I also couldn't get into ROTT. It just feels off.

>>4795471
Well RoTT sucks.

>>4794604
Nope, Blood is just the best. Most fun movement, best-feeling weapons, and neatest level design & settings.
>>4795471
ROTT is actually on an improved version of the Wolfenstein engine.

the controls in this game are really annoying

>>4795927
All build games have slightly wonky controls.

>>4795716
Blood has exactly 7 decentish levels out of the 6 episodes: Phantom Express, Dark Carnival, Overlooked Hotel, The Haunting, The Siege, Sick Ward and Mall of the Dead.

The rest of the maps are just generic temple shit with generic monster placement. Duke has much better leveldesign desu.

>>4797802
This faggot comes in every Blood thread saying this, fully demonstrating what a gigantic clueless pleb he is. Ignore.

>>4797802

>>4797809
>people share their opinion which is not mine
>they must be the same

>>4798049
>even though i come into every one of these threads, and post the exact same thing almost verbatim every time, i am another completely different poster
lel

>>4797802
I dunno, I kind of liked by that dam level and, of course, the Ganglion Depths. I guess, I just like Terry Hamel's design style (he also participated in doing The Siege, as well as both temples in ep1).

>>4794604
hey nigger nipples in duke switch to weapon 1 the boot and hold down attack button and then hold down tilde for quickkick
Duke will run around the level kicking with both feet at the same time how the fuck is he standing
you won't see this shit in blood or at least probably won't because I only remember playing the first few minutes of the demo back in like 1997 because my college roommate made fun of me and said the game was gay

>>4798064
> I kind of liked that dam level and
Fix.

Also, I mean, I distinctly remember being impressed by how massive they felt. Ganglion Depths felt conclusive, pretty much like THE culmination to the game.

>>4798069
>and said the game was gay
He wasn't talking about the game, you weird larping faggot kiddo.

Blood was a bad a shooter in 1997 as Bioshit 1 was in 2007.

>>4797802
>The rest of the maps are just generic temple shit
That's just objectively false. The first level is a graveyard/funeral home, there's the ice levels, the Shining level, the flesh/hell level, the dam level, and the other city levels. There are like a handful of temple levels across the 3 episodes.

>>4798061
I'm sorry mate, this is like the second time in my posting history regarding Blood and its leveldesign. I think your problem is being insulted too easily.

Duke is objectively the better game. If you don't believe me, check the selling numbers or the reviews of various gaming sites.

>>4798109
I don't really have a dog in this hunt, and I'm not the person who originally replied to you. I was just pointing out that more than one person has noticed you post the exact same thing in every one of these threads.

>>4797802
>generic temple shit with generic monster placement

What's wrong with that?

>>4798074
>larping
LARPing as what, exactly? please be more clear with your insinuations

>>4798120
>LARPing as what, exactly?
As someone who'd have to be in their forties by now, as opposed to the kid that you actually are. Calm down, champ. It's just video games.

>>4798080
>graveyard/funeral home
With areas you see commonly in other levels of the game

>ice levels
OK, the ship is not that bad, and of course the two maps I mentioned. The others are just generic whatever maps.

>Shining level
Which I mentioned pleb.

>flesh/hell level
These are the absolule low points of the game. Even some Blood fans agree they suck badly. But yea, not temple, right.

>dam level
OK, that is not bad, so let's expand the list from 7 to 8. Or with the ship, 9. So you got a 1 episode content of good.

>other city levels
And they all looked like the same and had those typical areas.

If "by playing" you mean you can sit down and beat it legit without exploiting or chipping then yeah you're not likely to get the "full experience" from many other retro FPSs period and almost definitely not Build Engine games. I freaking WISH I was good at Blood.

>>4798130
It's not worth being good at. It's a fairly poor game mechanically. It just plays tough to shift the blame onto the player.

>>4798126
I wasn't even commenting on the quality of those levels, I was responding to your claim that the majority of other maps were generic temples.

>>4798135
>It just plays tough to shift the blame onto the player.
The really good question, however, is why this sort of thing seems to work so fucking well on Americans, so that trash like McGee's leveldesigns gets a free pass with flying colors. You insecure much out there or something?

Blood is definitely a much harder game than Duke. It's difficulty is on par with Shadow Warrior's.

>>4798154
Why you hate American McGee so much? His levels are much better than Petersen's.

>>4798125
>people would larp as being 40 years old
you must be kidding
actually I'm in my late 30's. first game I remember playing is Skyfox for the apple IIe, how about you?
... technically I guess the first game I played was the gnome maze game that was included on the apple "how to use your new computer" disk, but anyway.

>>4798192
>you must be kidding
No, kiddo, I'm not kidding. You're doing it right now, and plenty others do as well.

>>4798193
Ok then, if I'm a teenager could you tell me how old you are please?

>>4798194
I just turned 6, champ.

>>4798175
Petersen's was a legit inventor and innovator. McGee was a one-trick pony who was like "Oh, Romero doesn't want to greenlight my level. Again. Fuck it, I'll just churn up the difficulty (delete some ammo pickups and make a couple more faggot-tier spawns) instead of actually changing the layout, since that's easier." His quintessential level is Hell Beneath, and its point is that it has Doom's analog to a GIANT STEAMING PILE OF SHIT right smack in the middle of it - and noone ever called McGee out on that, because, well, apparently this level is oh-so-tough and noone would like to make oneself seem as a loser and scrub or something. You know why it's the first one in Thy Flesh Consumed episode? To ENFORCE the player to pistolstart it, so that not to have any unaccounted for ammo, weapons or armor, since it's the only way to ensure the player turns the blind eye to being killed through the "hearways" in the center room. It's purely a "Fuck you, Romero, my level is good enough as it is" piece.

Listen, nigga apparently had it quite easy in terms of his id history. He was a fucking auto-mechanic, he got hired in id on Carmack's whim without having made a single level beforehand - and then he acts like he couldn't be assed? I mean, what the fuck?

>>4798192
>actually I'm in my late 30's
that's even more pathetic

>>4798208
Just let him roleplay. This shit always turns to comedy gold if you keep them on the hook.

>>4798204
>the autistic level design critic is back

>>4798208
I was going to say something in my defense but eventually realized there is nothing i can say
some day you will be old too and the frustrations you feel in life will cause you to come back here and shitpost
they say it gets better, but it doesn't. You just find ways to stop noticing
>>4798209
I hope I have been able to provide some entertainment

>>4798220
lol

>>4798210
>a faceless, opinionless anon is back

>>4798204
Hell Beneath was just one level out of the many of McGee's output. He made solid maps in the first quarter in Doom 2, levels like The Waste Tunnels or The Crusher are better than anything Petersen did for this game (maybe with the exception of Spirit World).

Hell Beneath is just as infamous as it's followup, Perfect Hatred, these two maps tarnished vanilla Doom's legacy, but if Romero isn't judged by Perfect Hatred, McGee shouldn't be judged by Hell Beneath.

Actually, the map would be perfectly fine, if those 4 medikits weren't removed in UV skill.

>>4798364
>Hell Beneath was just one level out of the many of McGee's output.
No, it's a concept level that expresses explicitly in what manner those previous Doom2 levels were made. It has a point, and that point is a blatant hackjob that is this level's centerpiece, and that is almost invariably turned a blind eye to, despite being in plain sight, due to player being too busy proving he's not a scrub.
>He made solid maps in the first quarter in Doom 2, levels like The Waste Tunnels or The Crusher
They were mediocre at best. Being an edgelord only works if you shuffle your trick roster from time to time - and American doesn't. He is predictable as fuck. If a part of the level is looking lacking/substandard then you'd better expect a couple of shotgunners suddenly teleporting behind your back (as well as forget about ammo/health pickups for a while).
I haven't replayed any of the Petersen's levels RECENTLY, so I won't comment on that. I fucking love his Quake episode however.
>Hell Beneath is just as infamous as it's followup, Perfect Hatred, these two maps tarnished vanilla Doom's legacy, but if Romero isn't judged by Perfect Hatred, McGee shouldn't be judged by Hell Beneath.
Your mistake is in that you treat Hell Beneath and Perfect Hatred as equal due to them looking similarly. They are not. Hell Beneath is a concept piece. It's the first level in the episode because being the first level in the episode is the only way it would work. It has a point. It is meant to convey meaning. Perfect Hatred is Romero being surprised by Hell Beneath, missing/misinterpreting its point ENTIRELY, and subsequently making his own copycat in order to demonstrate he can do what he perceived Hell Beneath to be too, AND QUICKER, AND GRANDER. In other words, Perfect Hatred is Just Another Romero's level, just made under fairly unusual circumstances. Hell Beneath, however, is one of the centerpieces of McGee's level-turdesigns. Without it, Perfect Hatred wouldn't exist to begin with.

>>4798364
Also, Perfect Hatred is interesting due to also being a precursor to the shitfest the first episode of Daikatana ended up being (quote from a private email: "The game was designed to be an expert-level FPS, and I did a lot of tuning to the first episode to make it that way. I didn't create any maps in the game, but I did a lot of tuning to several of them. For sure, The Vault is a VERY difficult level to beat until you figure it out - then it's easy."). In that context, I am currently unsure as to how to interpret it, I am still missing some context.

>>4798471
>From that standpoint, I am currently

>>4798364
>Hell Beneath is just as infamous as it's followup, Perfect Hatred, these two maps tarnished vanilla Doom's legacy
LEL. Why the fuck do people get so butthurt about these levels just because they're difficult. "Tarnished vanilla Doom's legacy"? Could you be any more of a drama queen?

>>4798353
I have plenty of opinions, one of which is that you assign bizarre motivations to 90s level designers that were never there. And you seem to think that levels were designed in the order that they're placed in the game.

>>4798595
Another one of your opinions is that >>4798353 and >>4798204 were written by the same person, which is simply wrong.

>one of which is that you assign bizarre motivations to 90s level designers that were never there

>I have plenty of opinions, one of which is that you assign bizarre motivations to 90s level designers that were never there.
First, they seem likely to me. Second, I am perfectly aware they are hypotheses and not facts, and so should you, since it should be evident for you that I have no way of knowing about that for a fact. Third, the fact is, that the center of HB hosts one of the worst fuckups in the official Doom levels, and that pretty much noone has ever said anything about it, despite HB being the first level one would play after picking up UD (supposing one has already completed Doom prior to that) - and we are talking about fucking Doom community here. I would LOVE to hear your own hypothesis that you would consider the most likely explanation for that apparent contradiction.

>And you seem to think that levels were designed in the order that they're placed in the game.
I seem to think that Doom2's levels were designed prior to UD's since Doom2 was released earlier, and that in HB and PH case SPECIFICALLY, PH was designed after HB.

>>4799471
In other words, in its current state, that level shouldn't have been greenlit for inclusion into UD to begin with. It gets greenlit, it gets all but put on the front cover, it gets a companion level, it never gets patched despite plenty of opportunity to do that, and noone ever talks shit about it (other than whining about its difficulty), moreover, in circles where bitching about something as superficial as texture fucking alignments became pretty much a tradition from day freaking one.

The faceless anon post is by me, not the reviewer anon. I think he is the reason why I watch Build and Doom threads.

>>4799498
As for Perfect Hatred, I think you're overanalysing Romero's intentions. Considering his earlier levels like Tenements or The Living End, they are not that much easier if you pistolstart them. In fact LE is really a bitch with that awful cybie at the end, hardly doable for completists. And Against Thee Wickedly is also hard as shit if you don't find those important secrets with plasma guns and such. Probably on the level of PH.

Blood is a really great game which prominent strength is its level design. It's the opposite of generic.

On McGee's maps - they were one of the reasons DoomII was good especially the first few maps.

>>4800301
>Blood is a really great game which prominent strength is its level design. It's the opposite of generic.
And satisfying gunplay with unique weapons and alt firing modes. And an awesome distinctive setting, soundtrack (especially midi) and protagonist.

>>4798220
>but eventually realized there is nothing i can say
Right, because it finally occurred to you that you'd already blown the facade. Anyone else would have written it off as a troll, said "lol, internet!" and went on with their day. But not you, kiddo. That initial surge of embarrassment and anger at getting called out for lying caused you to reflexively jump in and try to prove the bullshit. That's how people know they have you on the hook.

All that said, feel free to continue roleplaying though. It's amusing.