/vr/ - Retro Games

Doom got a succesful reboot and huge mods to make it stand from other old fps
Quake is still played to this day
Half Life has memes
Duke has been tainted by Forever and Gearbox being pieces of shit and misusing the IP, and people think his shtick of macho-man has aged poorly or is problematic for nowadays standards.
Just wait for a Duke reboot ala new God of War.

Doesn't make sense to look up to Doom but look down on Duke Nukem 3D when they're essentially the same shit.

DN3D's mechanics did not age badly, they're, in fact, crisp and fantastic to this day. The Build engine was groundbreaking. However, I feel like a lot of gaming outlets consider the Build games to be a red-headed stepchild that was "shimmied in between Doom and Quake" - as in, right when they came out, they didn't make enough of an impact before the new graphical and conceptual revolution came with Quake. So it's like DN3D came too late, even though I don't think any self-respecting gaming outlet won't pay its dues to the design, even if they might have a misguided notion that Duke simply paled before Quake.

But the 80s action movie pastiche hero archetype very well might have aged poorly. Your mileage may vary on that one, but a man like Duke, played straight without any subversions, might seem like an asshole to today's audiences. A lot of people seem to focus on Duke as the "game with a mouth", remembering the "real city" setpieces, strippers and quips and not the actual gameplay.

There's apparently a Duke movie coming out with John Cena in the titular role, and I think we can expect at the very least some subversion or twist on Duke, or at least a Furiosa-style side character.

Remember that Shadow Warrior, which was a very niche game when it came out, got a remake recently, wherein Lo Wang was no longer a funny Chinaman kung-fu parody who srashed enemies in harf for their shamefur dispray.

I won't talk about the 90's (actually really 80's) humor/aesthetic etc, it's pretty obvious why it didn't age well. But IMO gameplay is also a mixed bag. While it's true that the level design in Build games is often better than Doom, the actual gameplay mechanics leave a lot to be desired. It's fucking hitscan hell is what it is. You think I'm bitching, just open any random Duke/Blood/Shadow Warrior thread on GOG or Steam and there will be many people discussing the difficulty. I'd say I'm pretty good at Doom and Quake (can play skill 2/hard saveless), but I can't get through a Build game on fucking normal without save scumming. It's like fucking Mega Man games, all memorization.

What? Duke isn't underrated, it's one of the greatest FPS to many people, the memes are just an addition.

>>4773006
Duke is actually pretty tame considering that the hitscan is "dodgable". It's not intuitive, but for instance circlestrafing a pig cop ensures you aren't hit by him. And Duke levels also generally provide you with a ton of substantial cover, plus you get grenades and mines.

>>4772875
Fuck that noise Duke is my go-to build engine game. There's not a thing I don't love about it.

How many more of these "why is *popular and well received game* so under rated" threads are we going to see this week?

>haha look you can see pixel boobs, they thought this was controversial back then

>>4773006
I always found Doom a much more difficult game than Duke or Blood, especially the 4h episode in UDoom. Shadow Warrior has some balance issues with the monsters though.

Because it's stuck in the '90s in every respect. The subject matter, the humor and the actual technology behind the game itself.
I must add that the Fifth Element references in the new episode were spot-on

>>4773024
The enemy placement in Duke levels, especially the ones made by Allen Blum was very elaborate.

Liztroopers are basically organic turrets, they are placed in larger rooms or streets when your job is to dodge their long range fireballs.

Pigcops and the replacement hitscan dudes, the Enforcers dominate the corridors and corners where your job is to strafe left and rigth to avoid the short range but powerful hitscan bullets.

In the 5th episode, these kind of precise monster placements became random, even in the classic looking levels like Golden Carnage where Liztroopers and Pigcops changed roles.

>>4772875
It's not underrated lol. Literally considered one of the greatest FPS's ever made. It just doesn't have the modern meme status that Doom has.
>if you talk to a friend about it, he will look to you with some disdain smile.
you got some fag friends Tbh m8

>>4772875
Probably because you're dealing with people too young to know Duke Nukem beyond Duke Nukem ForNever memes, the failure of DNF when it was actually released, and clickbait articles written by similarly young people or SJWs who prattle on about the humor not aging well, how embarrassing it it is, and it being "too 90s." People who experienced it when it was new or relatively new or gave it a chance beyond wrongly viewing it as some embarrassing relic will probably enjoy it. The fact that it gave us somewhat believable, real world locations was awesome and gave it a totally different feel from the abstract levels of Doom.

>>4772895
Duke is much more forgiving than Blood. I'm certain I've died many many more times playing Blood than I have playing Duke3D.

>>4773146
Meant for>>4773006

>>4772890
they play completely differently

>>4773019
This. Duke Nukem was a bit hit on its time, and the Doom vs Duke Nukem wasn't the real rivalry, it was Quake vs Duke Nukem. Was some sort of Mario vs Sonic kind of rivalry between fans.

Duke Nukem was a really good and funny game, but Quake was on another whole level.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OipJYWhMi3k

>>4772875
cause duke is a man from a bygone era,back then he was the poster child for masculinity,now hes a problematic sexist and the game industry want to sweep him under the rug

hes not under rated,he is one of the kings of first person shooters,hes ignored now cause the games journolist industry is packed with basedboys and SJW feminists

>>4773197
Another victim of the Earthworm Jim effect.

>>4773197
Duke actually represents the average blue collar worker than some rethuglican asshole coastal elite like Trump. Pretty fucking based that Jon St. John told the RNC to blow it out their ass, asking if he could do a voice-over for them.

>>4773234
what a fucking cuck.

dropped HARD

>>4773234
>disliking Trump
Fuck off soiboi.

>>4773197

>for masculinity

Are you retarded? the whole point of duke was he was a parody of all those 80's cliches, he wasn't a hero you looked up to. SJWs would eat him up today.

The reason why Duke isn't giving a real revival is because his character is akward in the AAA industry where everything has more realism. You can't have a world with floating health packs and all kinds of action on the screen while doing it realistically or else it turns into Resident Evil 6 or Call of Duty: Ghosts. The only games that are able to do it while still feeling like not a rehash are games that go for a more cartoon aesthetic while still trying to be modern like when TF2 was released.

>>4773351
>SJWs would eat him up today.
What are you even talking about, my man.

>>4773351
sjws cry about duke you know nothing my man

>>4773380
MUH SJWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>4773384
>thinks that the freaks like pic related in the games industry are gonna lap up duke

>being this naive
>in 2018

these are the people who moan that a medieval game set in europe doesnt have niggers running around in it.

>>4773081
>you got some fag friends Tbh m8
This. The only people who can't appreciate the humor never saw old action movies, never dealt with beefheads or can't take a fucking joke. You don't have to laugh at it, but hating it means that you don't get that the creators thought it was bullshit as well. The joke is over your head. The gameplay is top notch, but fps players have a tendency to take themselves too seriously.

>>4773351
>the whole point of duke was he was a parody of all those 80's cliches, SJWs would eat him up today.
>implying SJWs could ever even begin to understand satire like that

>he wasn't a hero you looked up to.
Also wrong. While Duke was satire, he wasn't the butt end of the joke. He was considered awesome and he IS awesome. Your Gen Z is showing buddy.

>>4773396

Alright, I can see your view on it.

Duke3D was a very influencial game at the very least in two ways: realism and interactivity.
These two aspects had an impact to the FPS genre but also to video games as a whole.

If you think of HL it owes as much to Quake as it does to Duke.
It owes to Quake the engine, but it owes to Duke the realistic approach (the way levels are grounded in reality yet still conceptual; the way levels flow together rather than being seperate entities, etc) and the interactivity.

The problem is that a great part of the industry only cares about technical advancements, and it does so in a very arbitrary way.
You know how pro reviewers have always scored "graphics" not depending on how the game actually looks but on its technical properties? It's the same idea here.
Quake was full 3D with all 3D models. Forget the fact the game was simplistic and it only had pure conceptual senseless level design, forget the fact that DN3D paved the way for what HL did, it only goes Doom -> Quake -> HL.

>>4772875
Duke Nukem 64 was better.

>>4773970
I'm pretty sure another FPS did the "see the beginning of the next level at the end of this level" thing first though

>>4772875
> Duke 3D rarely appears on the sharper end of the best FPS games list,
That's a revisionist lie. Hell, unusually, it's revisionist of the PRESENT. Duke3D is widely considered to be a great game and easily up there with Doom.

The problem is that after the piece of shit that Duke Nukem Forever was, some morons decided they're gonna be cool and started pushing an idea that Duke was never good kinda like lately we also had "Sonic was never good" couple years back - luckily, those were completely dispelled by Sonic Mania.

Similarly, I imagine that vocal minority that claims Duke was never good - is *right now* being silenced by the unequivocable goodness of Ion Maiden. So you're not going to listen to it for long.

http://msdn.duke4.net/hotduketroid.php

Duke Nukem + Super Metroid style progression/gameplay. Any takers?

>>4773976
And other FPS were true 3D before Quake. It's about how you do it and how influential it becomes.

>>4773205
>Earthworm Jim effect
This. Both EWJ and Duke are considered non PC and right wing today, one because of the creator, the other because of the character. Right wing is not popular in today's pop culture, that's their ultimate loss. Same goes for games like Red Alert too.

>>4773970
And Quake aged horribly with those ugly first gen models.

>>4774091
Good, gaming is not a place where politics of any stripe should ever be tolerated.

>>4773197
Duke Nukem is an SJW game you clueless faggot, it’s literally designed to be leftist satire on the macho American gun loving conservative stereotype that was so prevalent in the 80s and 90s

>>4773975
Anon no don't .

It had good new weapons (aside from the fucking grenade launcher) but that was it.

I mean it had no background music for fucks sake. Also it was censored which removed a lot of the charm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krPH0cWIP5U

>>4773205
EWJ is politically completely neutral and would be fine had Doug not engage with internet catfights on twitter about trannies and homosexuals

Duke Nukem at it's core represents the perceived vices and sins of a white male, nothing can fix it sans God of War tier game that would turn him into a sorry cuck taking care of a kid

>>4772875
>, Doom
Good SP, better gameplay design, bunch of mods, tons of maps and simple to map for, smaller size. Historical Relevence. 1t fast FPS, looked good doing it, networked multiplayer, amazing controls, editability (literally one of the most technologically innovative games in PC history)

>Quake
Stupid godly MP, longevity with TCP/IP networking, and master server lists. Historical relevence. (first fully 3D FPS, 3D card support, brought about master servers, best multiplayer in existence and uniquely one of the fastest)

>Half Life
Bunch of newfags.CS/Longevity. Historical relevence. (most boring intro ever in an FPS, 3D mouth jibbering to audio, pretends to be deeper story wise than other FPS, sets all new records in buggy games released by company that don't give a fuck, has mods for it with replayability - that get broke only monthly until they stop fucking patching the thing)

Duke's historical relevancy was that it was memetastic for the era, was overtly sexualized, it also added some mechanics that otherwise weren't done elsewhere.

But Duke also ran very well, had high resolution support, and innovative weapons (but not great gameplay design overall), some relatively low bar easy moddability, and a large fan base. Most of what Duke did was just improve upon the formula, it's longevity for the longest time was hindered greatly by requiring IPX/modem tunneling over IP etc... on services that would die out. Not having a solid port and by the time those were dead was so much of an issue large swaths of it's fanbase had migrated. This is really the biggest killer for it's popularity. Not that it hasn't managed to still hang onto being popular enough. But it failed to reach Doom/Quake, through lack of sheer gameplay excellence and lack of timely ports.

Coincidentally, Quake having ports is what kept it alive as long as it did, but not having consistent and great ports that also stress SP and easy config is what sort of makes it way less popular now.

Duke Nukem made Doom obsolete. It's like Command and Conquer to Dune 2.

>>4772895
Are you talking about shadow warrior reboot or shadow warrior 2? Because reboot is exactly that, havent played 2 though so i cant comment

Duke 3D is OVERRATED on /vr/. There's no denying that it's interesting and fun, but it's not literally the best game ever. I don't think that the weapons and enemies are all that amazing, and that some levels are tedious. The subsequent releases of Blood and Shadow Warrior surpassed Duke 3D is about every aspect in my eyes. Duke 3D is absolutely worth knowing and playing for any FPS fan, I just don't believe it holds up to scrutiny as well as some other games.

>>4772875
nigga, Duke 3D is still considered one of the best FPSes of the 90s

the fuck outta here with that "underrated" shit

>>4774562
>Blood and Shadow Warrior surpassed Duke 3D is about every aspect in my eyes
Check your optometrist then.

>>4772875
I just replayed it, it's still remarkable because they tried to make "realistic" levels with 90s technology and also turned duke into a mascot character, which no one else was really doing at the time. The game was a huge success because they knew how to stand out but looking back you can see where they really cut corners.

The AI is mostly just garbage, all the enemies are piss easy. To compensate for this, the level designers just threw a bunch of hitscan enemies at you, all the "hard" levels are just battlelord spam.

Speaking of level design they really phoned it in at some points. I think what they didn't realize at the time is that that type of setting kind of sucks because trying to make realistic city levels just results in a bunch of square rooms. Episode 3 has some decent ideas but is ultimately pretty forgettable and anticlimactic, you go from earth, to stopping the invasion in space, then back to the same locations on earth. Why? Shouldn't episodes 2 and 3 have been switched around?

The shrink ray and spinning gear-type puzzles were fine but the "find the combination" switch puzzles are questionable why they're even there, it's like they wanted to pace the action but couldn't think of anything else because everything in the 90s was shitty switch puzzles.

The other 90s design trend it suffers from is "too many weapons" syndrome, all these games were trying to include as many powerful weapons as they could to set themselves apart from each other, which inevitably results in bad game balance. In SP the shrink ray is completely overpowered, but in MP the hitscan weapons just dominate. Also every level has way too much ammo in it so there is not a lot of decision making to be done, you can generally just blow everything up and be fine. Maybe they needed to do this because people were bad at FPS back then and missed a lot of shots.

Irony: the thread.

>>4774680
I always thought episode 3 is the red headed stepchild of the original 4 episodes. Most levels look like they were built in a few days, just square rooms, no scale in the streets, no new monsters or weapons introduced, never really developed into some climatic ending. Just a half baked map collection from the second fiddle (Levelord). Luckily episode 4 saved the game with a proper ending and new interesting stuff being introduced there.

>>4774042
holy shit yes

>>4774680
>The AI is mostly just garbage, all the enemies are piss easy
In comparison to what? Dewm? AKA the most brain dead FPS ever made?

>>4775167
No, that also has garbage AI, but at least it has monster infighting as an additional mechanic.

(FYI I have yet to see a modern FPS game that has good AI, it seems it has actually gotten worse with time)

>>4775182
>but at least it has monster infighting as an additional mechanic.
So? That makes shit even easier. If you're complaining about something being too easy why would you want a mechanic that makes it even dumber than it already is.

>>4775187
Because that game has a different problem with difficulty which is that the "harder" enemies are all just bullet sponges. Monster infighting mitigates the tedium of that, but yeah you're right it doesn't make the game harder. Duke enemies are comparatively weak and also the power creep in the weapons makes them even weaker.

>>4775182
Try F.E.A.R.

>>4774002
If you think Ion Maiden is better than DNF, you are simply tripping.

I mean, for fuck's sake, one is Allen Blum's game, even if Halo/HL2 crossover, made primarily for XBoX360, another has Daedolon (who is pretty much a more pretty version of Randy Pitchford level-design wise) as the main level-designer. I mean, there is simply no competition, one is a self-taught level-designing genius, another one is a "community representative" going for the lowest common denominator.

>>4773060
Who was the author that did all the best alternative history collections? Throw paperback softcover collections and random things from classics along with the last few decades that make odd foreshadowing of popculture forward from there and throw in Jet Li's 'the one ' and Lawrence of Arabia then go full early internet parody material.
>Overqualified for the job huh? A shot headove if ever I saw one. Helps with the under development of talent up front though!
>Don't know what to say Black-tie China gal except the best taco's are the hardest to crack, so hold your head high you beautiful Dyke.
>Furry and a half running on Duke Burger vegetable oil
>Ronald knows what he did.
>The Indigo Prophecy was true all along dammit!
>My waif could easily beat your kung-fu Joey Joe Joe.
>The world is a vampire
>Foamy the Squirrel is my spirit guide
>Show me your facebook and I'll cure all your ills
>This is always the fault of robots from the year 3000
>Good news everyone, lesbians
>Nobody knows the weird fanfics I've been
>Maybe I should be a substitute teacher
>You have failed the test of evolution would you like to play again?
>Sinatra or Dubstep? Water level or Sewer level?
>Episode 1 through 3, I read the books
>I need to level up my Politimon
>Spengeblorb not a chance
>I'm not sorry I stole that crossing guards Tank
>Kill all humans, leave me the pleasure bots
>Proton my old pal, maybe you were right
>I miss my non canonical children

>>4775434
>I voted Ron Paul you bag of biological waste
>Baby Seal Patty Sandwiches hmmmmm
>Burger King did nothing wrong
>There has never been anything like what I am drinking rum
>Clown always comes back...
>They don't make Illuminati like they used to
>Anon creeps me out
>Tits and get the Sam hell off my planet
>Blam you're dedicated permanently
>I know you're watching but are you thinking?
>How hard is it to be rich and smart at the same time?
>Bitey, we're not in Brackenwood anymore.
>Potatoes on every channel now
>I'm here to take your virginity internet
>With the Abilities off-the-wall Guardians of the Galaxy my dating sim wife will finally be real
>Simpson did it
>I can see the text boxes too Nate
>Heheheh call me "Dad" from now on
>Ponies, don't talk to me about ponies
>This would be easier without the MiB confiscating all my stuff every time this happens
>That dastardly robuttnik
>That feel when my boots up your ass
>Cockjoke
>Where are you when we need you Ash?
>Fatality
>Superman Vs Goku Vs my ability to stay awake
>There's no business like hoe business
>Oprah, forgive me my love
>Russian monster pig bacon tonight again?
>Pour one out for a pretty cool dude
>Where's my giant robot
>The ego that walks as a man...
>Pipe bombs, the patricians choice
>Principal Duke goes to Godzilla town
>Come back with that shield, it's a rental
>I make videotapes in my spare time
>Yo ho ho ho I left it all in one bonus room
>Until we meet again Karate hobo

>>4775434
>>4775475
is anybody actually going to read all this? :^/

>>4775476
Who asked you for your endlessly droll opinion on this? I never did anything to you so back to whatever you were wasting time with.

>>4775346
Davox will be the lead designer fyi. The opening base and streets were too awesome to neglect them. They are colorful, detailed and have that cyberpunk feel what made Hollywood Holocaust or LA Rumble special as well.

Daedolon's subway level is also something that matches Allen Blum's best. It looks closer to classic Duke style, with Duke items and enemies it could have been made into the Birth episode and would have been a fan favourite today. It's much better than Rabid Transit as well.

The other two parts (offices, basement) are not without their flaws, although I rate them higher than most maps in Alien world order.

>>4775167
Doom enemies have better pathfinding than DN3D's. In Doom you can fuck off to wherever and they'll still follow you. They're also less likely to go full retard instead of shooting the player, they still do from times to times, but a loss less than DN3D.
You can also use them in more varied situations and they just work.
How many times did I think I came up with a cool DN3D enemy use idea and it just didn't work.... and yes I know about all the shit like "they don't see through their eyes but their feet" (I'm making this sound shitty on purpose).

I don't blame DN3D though. The reason Doom works so well, and not just enemies, everything, is because it's simplistic.
The more you complicated, the harder it becomes to be 'flawless', especially if you still want the damn thing to run on a 486.

>>4776236
>>4775346
Neither are lead level designer. Maybe you should check the credits and wonder why, if the names are not sorted by alphabetical order, that first name is first.

>>4776240
>Doom enemies have better pathfinding than DN3D's. In Doom you can fuck off to wherever and they'll still follow you. They're also less likely to go full retard instead of shooting the player, they still do from times to times, but a loss less than DN3D.
>You can also use them in more varied situations and they just work.
I know all that. I was more referring to anon's comment about Duke enemies being easy. Everything in the original Doom is non-threatening as fuck compared to Duke as enemies have the reaction time, movement and projectile speeds of my dead grandma. Not saying Duke enemies are hard but at least they fucking blink much quicker when they see me.

>The reason Doom works so well, and not just enemies, everything, is because it's simplistic.
Idk. Carmack is just a God with the technicals. I've seen you say this comment plenty of times before but BUILD engine games just feel janky as shit, even compared to modern games which are technically far more elaborate than them. Carmack himself said that the BUILD engine is like it's "held together like bubble gum". Games based on idtech1-3 all have a super solid feel, even the modern iterations like Call of Duty, which have a fucktonne of shit going on.

Duke Nukem 3D is underrated because people have shit taste, combined with the fact that DNF was not only awful but took forever to come out, leaving everyone with a bad taste in their mouths. Whole franchises were born and died in the time it took that turd to drop.

>>4773081
this man is 100% right

>>4774248
Atreus is Kratos' son. Don't ever call Kratos a cuck again you fag.

Duke 3D doesn't get the love that doom gets because nobody has made a level editor for it that doesn't fucking suck.

>>4776997
If you can't look at a list of key commands and learn them you'll never do anything worthwile in DN3D anyway, because if you can't do something as simple as that you'd never be able to build a functional door.
It's not like Doom in which stuff like effects and shading of an enitre sector is made with the press of one button.

>>4777015
This. Doom is basically the Minecraft of retro gaming. Any mouth-breather can pick it up and start producing the content right away. Mediocre content, but still.

>>4776727

Doom enemies also have infighting, which, while a cool mechanic, makes even the largest hordes an utter joke to take down. Simply lead a strong enemy into a projectile-spamming enemy and watch as the horde eventually tears itself into pieces. Combine that with weapons like the Super Shotgun, BFG or even Chaingun and you can sleepwalk though Doom's combat.

In Duke, you can't do that. You WILL have to take down that Mini-Battlelord yourself, and you will have to learn how to exploit him and his weaknesses, along with how to manage the enemies that came with him. Something like the Mini-Battlelord room in Occupied Territory, the last generator room in Fusion Reactor, and the clusterfuck of enemies in Hotel Hell in Come Get Some are much harder than similar rooms would be in doom because you have to take them down yourself without letting infighting do the job.

I know you could use slimers to have them kill everyone, but that's pretty uncommon and only really useful in Damn I'm Good to prevent enemies from respawning. Slimers are too slow and too vulnerable to use as a way to kill other enemies in most cases.

>>4775204
I just tried this game after many many years last night and my god it was honestly such a disappointment. I don't think FEAR has aged well at all in terms of gameplay. At the time it was fucking amazing because it really was a cinematic spectacle with all the pretty effects and whatnot but it's just so damn SLOW. For a game where you're supposed to be this super hero with super reflexes you walk at a literal snail's pace.

Goddamn if they increased the base movement speed (with auto run enabled) like 100% this game would feel so much better. I think if FEAR guy could move at say Gordon Freeman from HL1 speed this game would be a billion times better.

>>4777020
>Mediocre content, but still.

please show me the super amazing duke mods that doom can't hold a candle to.

Why did the mods delete my post about duke being leftist satire of stereotypical conservative masculinity? Gay homosexual faggots can’t handle the truth so they suppress it instead.

>>4777109
If we treat Ion Maiden as a Duke mod (frankly it should be), it can really beat the vast majority of Doom mods unless the creators fuck up the final release.

>>4776243
Max Ylitalo / oasiz, right?

Where the hell can I even play this guy's maps made prior to Ion Maiden? So far, I've found - gasp! - TWO: Slum Noir and the first map of Return to Ruins. Are there any others? Any packs he participated in?

>>4777181
Again, DavoX. So far, of his legit solo content, I've found his Buenos Aires Explosive Remake and two maps from DNF2013 DLC. Well, also, one map requiring DukePlus, stadium Remake or some such.

Whatever. Maybe I was searching in the wrong places, but THIS is what I've managed to come up with.

Just... who the FUCK are those people and why were THEY hired for Ion Maiden?

>>4777220
And for Daedolon I can't even find any results other than that Duke Hard map.
What the fuck.

>>4772885
Man, before Gearbox there already were all those godawful Tomb Raider clones for PSX and N64, the 2D Duke games are shit too. Everything in that franchise except Duke 3D is pretty shitty.

>>4773006
You just suck at playing vidya.

>>4776236
>They are colorful, detailed and have that cyberpunk feel what made Hollywood Holocaust or LA Rumble special as well.
Right. Because layout/encounter design and environmental design / texturing are clearly one and the same thing. Uh-huh.

>>4772875
Seriously though, for me Duke Nukem 3D will always be the FPS i'll gladly replay when i can. The IP didn't have bad reputation since Gearbox, and also that fucked up thing on Steam when they replaced the Megaton version with theirs without the three expansions... It sucked a lot for the people that bought that version, but aside from those stories, since i was a child a loved Duke Nukem Time To Kill on PS1 (even if it's clearly a ripoff of Tomb Raider.) There's also Land of the Babes but i didn't play it as much as TTK. This but to not mention the original serie that is Duke, the platform. Very nice shit man: Duke is a badass!

>>4772875
this is actually the first time i heard people say Duke is underrated. when people talk about D3D, its always songs and praises about it

>>4775162

Did you like it anon?

>>4772875

The levels are paced differently, and a lot more of the enemies are hitscan. So, the pace isn't quite as tight. Nearly every level devolves into slow search for keys, buttons, or non-obviously-destructable objects. The DC expansion is one of the strongest examples of this.

>>4775167
You just posted the most fun game ever. Any words you have are completely irrelevant. I wish I were playing Doom right now.

How can we play some Duke3D multiplayer
RIGHT
NOW

>>4772895
>The Build engine
Was the full manifestation of what 2.5D is!

Doom and the like did not have true 3D.
There was no up or down in doom only tricks to fool the player.
Doom was a tricked up Wolfenstain where everything was on a flat labyrinth.
No room in Doom can be on top of a different one.

While the Build engine was capable and did have this.
This is also the reason why Duke 3D maps look like actual cities where people can live and you can navigate the corridors of offices and actual buildings (rooms on top of one another).

>>4778662
>There was no up or down in doom only tricks to fool the player.
just as incorrect as when game theory first spouted this bullshit

>>4777282
Zero Hour and Manhattan Project are good though

>>4773006
> hitscan hell
>the difficulty
>Build game on fucking normal without save scumming

To be hones there are a lot of
>Fuck YOU!
Moments in Duke 3D, especially if the game decides to have or spawn the chain gun boss alien. You better know in advance this shit is coming.

The game can spawn the rocket shooting poss all it wants the real problem is the chain dude (for me)

The only other hitscan are the pigs and you can defeat them by strafing really fast (they will fail to hit you).

Maybe its because I grow up on the game and have it memorized however I don't find it hard?
However I find modern shooters often boring where every enemy will telegraph his attack so every baby can dodge it.

>>4778664
Can you have rooms on top of one another?
I'm talking about the original not mods like zDoom.

Also you notice that if you shoot a wall and a monster is on top of it the monster will be hit.
This is not magical auto aim its the fact that everything is a on a flat plain.

>>4778672
>>4773006
I forgot to add.
The only place i save is the start of a level (its a ultra bitch to start wit only the pistol in some after a death).
And before bosses, if I know they are coming.

Also I finished up Blood in my adulthood for the first time in my life and I used the same strategy so its not like I memorized Duke 3D.

Remember to run out a lot (hiding behind corners and standing still will not help you in these games).

>>4773101
This. For example, look at this shit comic. It implies the problem with Douk Forever was the outdated humor, not the ultra generic first person shooter mechanics. Don't get me wrong, the humor is outdated, but it could also be used for good comedy fuel. Imagine the contrast between Duke and most "badass" vidya characters of modern times. You have some brooding gravelly voiced bald marine guy weeping over his lost mates, and here comes DOUK FUCKING NOUK WITH A FUCKING BAZOOKA HAIL TO THE KING MOTHERFUCKER, that's hilarious! They did try something like that with the power armor gag in DNF, but it fell flat because Duke in DNF has regenerating health just like with power armor. Halo games are also actually fun unlike DNF, so that makes the gag fail even harder.

I still think Duke would work nowadays, especially because how out of touch it is with "modern times". No fancy character development, no bullshit emotional stuff. Just a muscleman with a gun, and the world surrounding him would give him the personality.

>>4777290
What's your problem with the layout? It flows well, only the office block is a bit confusing, but not that much.

The subway's layout is almost perfect, not that linear as there are some alternative routes which can put some encounters into different angles (like the turrets in the green room), but also clear where to go and what to do. It's like a lost level from the Birth episode with new enemies and items.

As for the mappers they might not have a rich mapping history, but that can be an advantage as they have the chance to develop their styles with this game. Davox's motorbike map was a standout work, one of the most memorable level in Duke history.

>>4778672
Enforcers are also terrible with their chaingun. And drones that blow you up after an annoying pitch.

>>4778664
Then how does Doomguy get over walls sometimes?
A well-known shortcut in E3 lets you skip some of the level by blasting him off a wall with a rocket explosion and landing on top of an island that can normally only be reached via teleport.
If there's no such thing as up or down then how does the game resolve this happening? The island has a height and Doomguy is either high enough to be on it, or not high enough to get over the wall it creates. There are many other instances of "gapping over" raised heights to reach secret areas in Doom, so what do you specifically mean by there being "no up or down?"

>>4778704
>Enforcers
Not really for me.
You can eat their damage and they have normal HP they die to 1 explosion so 1 rocket makes them die.

>>4778676
>Also you notice that if you shoot a wall and a monster is on top of it the monster will be hit.
this is so incorrect to the point where i wonder if you have ever played doom at all

>>4773101
I love Duke 3D humor it was typical action hero.
However Duke F did go a little on the edge and makes him look like and asshole sociopath.

I don't think no one can think the garbing shit mechanic was good humor.

>>4778708
Enforcers are much harder than pigcops.

>>4778718
Yes.
However considering that pigcops are ultra easy for me you get the picture.

Strafe like crazy or get behind cover and throw a rocket at them.
They will not get more then -12 HP on you.
And this is not a problem unless you are near death.
And this should not happen if you use the portable medkid intelligently.

>>4778705
Sorry, that was meant for >>4778662 , obviously

>>4778705
Are we talking about the original game or some mod who gives up and down?

>Doomguy get over walls
I have to see what you are talking about.

I think glitch or some of the wall detection has a build in value that lets you pass (tricking up and down) if your elevation_meter is above some value.

>Doom, so what do you specifically mean by there being "no up or down?"
I think Carmack himself stated this.
You can simply not have rooms on top of one another or creatures on top of one another.

The game tricks the idea of elevation like it tricks 3D in the monsters (they are sprites who have like 8 sides and the sprite is swaps depending on what angle you are looking at the monster).

Its not that you can not get over elevation (see elevators in doom or walking on platforms) because its managed by tricks in the code.

>>4778705
>>4778723
>>4778727
>mean by there being "no up or down?"
Little note. I'm talking about "no TRUE up or down" like doom has "no TRUE 3D monsters" it uses tricks to trick its existence.

>>4776727
> Everything in the original Doom is non-threatening as fuck
I think this s proven by the existence of mods who let you play as the monsters.
The conclusion is all monster except the zombies (who have normal weapons) are a pain to use and will die.

The only way to win the game is by using ridiculously OP Bosses or cheese your way by using the Arch and raising a army of resurrected monsters to fight for you.

>>4777282
>Everything in that franchise except Duke 3D is pretty shitty
Objectively wrong.

>>4777181
>>4777220
>>4777262
I can tell you they're all good and have skillsets that complement each others.

Who would you rather have anyway?!

>>4778698
>Davox's motorbike map was a standout work, one of the most memorable level in Duke history.

The map shows Davox' sense of scale and how he can create huge, ambitious and awe looking maps.
The bike gameplay however suffered from being only playable the one way the mapper intended. Most notably the segment where you have to jump from roof to roof with the bike, you can only beat that segment if you rush through it and don't stop, if you stop on any of these roofs either because you want to explore the roof for secrets or supplies, because you slightly missed your turn, or because it looks like the roof is big enough to gain enough momentum for the next jump if you stop: you're stuck. You can't make the jump and you can't backtrack either. All you can do is kill yourself.
Ideally it should have had a failsafe of some sort, either make sure there is always enough room to build up the required speed from 0 on each roof, or have a way to backtrack to the start.

I'm not worried however. Noone can think of everything and is good at everything, which is why I believe the IM mappers were picked well: like I said their skillsets complement each others.

>>4778780
>Who would you rather have anyway?!
Sandt?

>>4778780
Also, are the any more maps by any of the three I haven't mentioned?

>>4772875
>Why Duke Nukem 3D is underrated?
By literally whom? It's consistently listed as one of the greats. It wasn't as revolutionary as Doom or Half-Life were, maybe, but it's universally praised and remembered fondly, except maybe in contrarian grognard asscracks of the internet.

What is next, "Why was SMB so underrated?" "Why was Tetris so underrated?"

>>4778830
He made some pedestrian maps in the past, although his dam level in DNF2013 was a step in the right direction.

>>4777148
>let's treat Ion Maiden as a Duke mod
>let's treat Shadow Warrior as a Duke mod
>let's treat Blood as a Duke mod

Riiiiight.

>>4777148
>>4778990
People think SW/Blood/IM/etc are Duke mods because they literaly think Build=Duke.
They don't realize that the common base, Build, is barely 'half' of what we generally call an 'engine'.
Not to mention that even the common base isn't always exactly the same...

>>4777148
>Ion Maiden
>custom source port written specifically for it
>paid professional team

This is like calling Half-Life a Quake mod.

>>4776727
>Carmack himself said that the BUILD engine is like it's "held together like bubble gum"

You only have to look at any Duke 3D speedrun to see this.

Or alternatively read any 3D realms emails to Ken Silverman.

>>4776727
I'm saying it doesn't help. If Doom and Quake actually had features and effects other than elevators and basic doors, then it'd be a lot more prone to glitches.
Quake doesn't even have crouching or a use button, I think that tells a lot about the simplistic design mentality. They didn't care about adding tons of cool things, which is what Build games are all about.

>>4779030
Except DN3D speedruns are made with Megaton, which is a poor port, it not only introduced new glitches, but rendered excisting glitches a lot more likely to happen. Some of the stuff they pull couldn't be pulled originally, other tricks that they get rid every time, they'd have to try 10-15 times or be extremely lucky to pull originally.
There is a reason they use that version. A poor port of DN3D is not representative of "Build" as a whole, maybe you ought to try some of these DN3D speedruns tricks in Blood or SW, and realize they don't work.

>Or alternatively read any 3D realms emails to Ken Silverman.
Like what? That e-mail from one of the Blood devs to George Broussard? Do you know the context of those 20+years old e-mails? Do you personally know the sender, receiver of that e-mail or Silverman himself? That e-mail complains Silverman is "not helpful".
Do you even know if the stuff they were asking him about was part of his contract, or if he even had any contract at all with them to provide support for Blood? Do you believe Trump every time he calls something "fake news" ? No you don't. Have some perspective.
I'm not saying none of it could be true, I'm just saying things are always more complicated, and you don't know half of it more than any of us.

Fuck, lost a fucking comment.

>>4777181
Slum Noir was okay. It was all about suspense, teasing, you always having to take absolutely the long way with shortcuts being provided much more for cosmetic than practical reasons. It was heavily "like in a MOVIE, dude" in a sort of artsy overdone way, also heavily post-HL2 in the constant "Look heeere, look theeeeere, you are looking the wrong waaaaay, I've spawned enemies behind you, not in front of you" sense. It required you to make an effort to suspend you disbelief, with constant unopenable doors (seriously pretty much the only ones that work are the keycarded ones), monster ambushes spawning around you in a very explicit manner, secret-related puzzles being solved right on the spot with high-scale level layout being irrelevant. I think it was a conscious decision to stylize it for a movie. Well, the kind of movie that has 50 minutes worth of content but drags for 90 to "get you your money's worth" (or maybe rather 90 minutes worth of content while lasting for 120 to appear grander and more expensive than it really is), but still. It flows like a pregnant cow, but at least it flows.

The end was weird. You get into the subway tunnel. To the left there are two boxes of RPG ammo at ones. To the right, you keep walking, there is the exit, no enemies, no nothing. What was the purpose of those two boxes of RPG ammo? Well, whatever.
(cont)

>>4777220
Buenos Aires whatever, however, was probably the worst fucking Duke map I have ever played, through and through. You are literally punished for not being a telepath and thinking not like the author would think like. I am quite serious, this seems to be the map's central theme. It's an internally inconsistent fuckdoigonow fuckdoiactivatenow formless meandering mass of a level with instakill scripts, muh curcur, muh assplouzhenz and muh Build gimmicks check out muh TANK, that's an absolute fucking abortion gameplay-wise. Judging from this map, DavoX is a disaster mapper, whose ceiling is pretty much SergeantMarkIV's level (and Sarge IS a shit level-designer).

What I mean, is that I played seven earliest Mikko Sandt's maps he released, all of them having been released in 1998, and on each and every single one of them I had incomparably better time than in this IMMA MAPPER abomination. Come to think of it, on, like, for of those seven maps I also had better time than in Slum Noir, but that's beside the point. Slum Noir is an okay level, I can roll with it. DavoX's creation is, well, something like when someone vomits on the canvas and calls it a picture.

I dropped it on the "one minute till the nuclear explosion" part because by that time I simply had enough of that shit. My time can be spent otherwise, and this piece of obnoxious tasteless crap has already taken way too much of it.

>>4779059
>all of them having been made in 1998
>four of those seven maps

>>4778930
Fuck are you talking about? Dude's been making classy Blum and Schuler type maps since, like, forever, without having devolved into a one-trick pony, and having managed to bring into each map some variation and novelty. He is easily the equal of pretty much any professional 90s mapper (more like the superior to 90 percent of professional 90s mappers).

>>4779071
>and while having managed

>>4779059
I never liked that level either, but it's old, give the guy a break and play his Stadium map. I think there are 2 versions of it: original for DNF DLC, and another one for classic Duke.

As for Mikko Sandt, he's a good and very productive mapper, but I always feel like he never really tries hard, never challenges himself. I don't mean to talk shit about him, he gets shit done, and saved my ass out of a map I didn't know how to finish 3 times, I just feel like he could do so much more if he challenged himself.
Even the dam level in DNF, it's really good and a step in the right direction, but it's only re-doing what was done in the actual DNF and not always in a better way.
So much more could be done with a dam level, and the one in RR Route 66 is a good example of that.

>>4779042
>I'm saying it doesn't help.
Well no shit lol. Doesn't change that BUILD is a janky feeling engine, period. Far more elaborate and technical engines exist than BUILD and they don't feel janky. Some engines feel janky, some engines don't. BUILD feels janky.

>>4779059
Buenos Aires was a terrible map, but the motorbike level was great. Stadium was okay.

His Ion Maiden maps are impressive though.

I think one of the best things about duke that's overlooked is its multiplayer

the game practically invented using a hologram to fake out other players, combined with pipebombs and it makes a perfect trap

the game also has several fun and silly weapons like the shrink ray, if you've played multiplayer you know how fun it is to shrink someone else and run around chasing them to smash them

the freeze gun is fun to freeze an opponent and later smash them

I think a modern remake with a bunch of fun and gimmicky weapons would do well

also another thing that killed all support for duke was 3d realms taking forever to make a proper fucking source port and also killing all fan made mods that tried to remake the game in a newer engine

they're like the metallica of fps games

>>4779079
I'd rather have a game full of cool stuff even if glitchy than a solid but dull game like Quake in which there is never anything going on.

>>4779084
Frozen opponents leave atomic health when they shatter, so that's a always an incentive to use it. Plus it's always cool to tease your opponent when they're frozen and can't move.
But watch out! The kill counts when they shatter, so someone else may steal your kill (and your atomic health!)

Tripmines can be hidden slopes which can lead to some great mind play if everyone knows that... Just don't forget where you placed yours.

I love Dukematch... however I genuinely think SW has even better DM. I've played tons of Duke match, Q3A, UT, etc but the most fun I've ever had was in SW.

I think the duke concept works pretty well as a 3d person shooter as well

>>4779094
You're a knob

>>4779094
>I'd rather have a game full of cool stuff even if glitchy than a solid but dull game like Quake in which there is never anything going on.
Eh, regardless how you feel about Quake (who gives a shit), I don't really care much for Duke's gimmicks. I love both games, but yes I do like Quake more, as I love its core mechanics far more than I'll ever love Duke's. Besides this has nothing to do with what we were talking about. We're talking about BUILD feeling janky, and again a game doesn't have to be simplistic or "dull" to not feel janky, and far more elaborate engines than BUILD exists that aren't janky, far more simplistic games than Doom/Quake exist that do feel janky, etc. Stop taking this personally lol.

>>4779094

SW?

>>4779076
>>4779081
Okay, I'll get to DNF2013+DLC eventually.

>>4779084

firing rockets blindly into teleporters was also fun

>>4778662
>While the Build engine was capable and did have this.
Except it didn't, it has the exact same limitations, but with more hacks (portals, sector effectors) to make it appear like 3d was possible. Some Doom source ports have adopted these features now too.

>>4778705
>>4778730
In the vanilla Doom engine there are some situations where the z axis is taken into account for collisions, and some situations where it is not, possibly for speed/balance reasons. The z axis has to be there, otherwise you wouldn't be able to drop off a ledge. The monster collision didn't originally take the z axis into account, but Hexen added it in and so people backported it to Doom. This is a pretty trivial change to make and I wouldn't even qualify as a "trick."

>>4779110
Shadow Warrior

>>4779130
>Except it didn't, it has the exact same limitations, but with more hacks (portals, sector effectors) to make it appear like 3d was possible. Some Doom source ports have adopted these features now too.

People always get confused with the 'portal' thing and it sounds like you do too. Blood, Shadow Warrior and Redneck Rampage Rides Again have Room Over Room, you can see two floors at the same time, and this is achieved through "hacks": an effect that uses similar code to that of a mirror (at least in the case of SW, afaik the others are different) to render the other floor through surfaces that act like 'portals'.

However DN3D and other Build games don't have that, but they still have sector over sector, as many rooms as one wants on the same plane (regardless of Z axis) as long as you don't see two at the same time.
This is not a hack but rather is possible because of how the renderer works, because every single wall which has a sector behind acts as a portal.

Read this, part2 of 4 specifically.

http://fabiensanglard.net/duke3d/index.php

>>4779076
To be honest, is there a single fucking Duke mapper who pushes the gameplay limits of the game in way that is not just grand views or overstaturating their maps with details? I mean as in vanilla Duke, not TCs.
I played Duketroid and it was pretty freaking sweet albeit too short. I also remember one ck3d map where you just go around running from monsters.

>>4779176

what's the multiplayer in shadow warrior like? aren't the weapons more basic?

No Build or Blood thread so posting this here - saw some ANSI art in the BBS documentary on YouTube and it looks like the phantasm from Blood. Did Blood artists rip this off or what?

>>4779684
Well, what's the date of it? Could certainly be the other way around.

>>4779780
Yeah it could, but I thought the ANSI art scene was early 90s so should have been pre-Blood unless a late example. The Paradise Lost BBS looks like it may have gone till 1996 so could have ripped off some pre-lease art.

>>4777290
Did you actually try Ion Maiden or just hate it because of the community.

>>4779130
>Except it didn't
There are rooms on top of one another and you can walk and occupy rooms on top of one another.

In the original. This is what we are talking about.
>Some Doom source ports have adopted these features now too.
I know this is why I specify talking about the originals here.

>The z axis has to be there
>pretty trivial change
I think its more of a indication(some players might think the level design is only based on aesthetics) of how the doom engine works.
Its Wolfenstain on steroids basically.

No rooms on top of one another are possible.
While Duke 3D has rooms on top of one another and the engine can handle it.

>>4780792
>There are rooms on top of one another and you can walk and occupy rooms on top of one another.
Not really, it's just an illusion. Fucking retard.
>In the original. This is what we are talking about.
Yeah no shit you fucking nigger
>I know this is why I specify talking about the originals here.
Good, retard
>I think its more of a indication(some players might think the level design is only based on aesthetics) of how the doom engine works.
Its Wolfenstain on steroids basically.
Thanks for the blog entry
>No rooms on top of one another are possible.
wrong
>While Duke 3D has rooms on top of one another and the engine can handle it.
wrong

>>4779084
How can I play Duke multiplayer today?
I never got the chance to play multi only single back in the day and I really want to experience it.

>>4780812
>Fucking retard.
>fucking nigger
Someone is getting angry.

>Not really, it's just an illusion
Can you elaborate on this?
Because its possible in multiple places to stand on top of another room.
Regardless how its made (I really like to know the technical details) its possible while doom can not handle bridges (This is why every walkway in doom is a solid block where no one can stand under).

>>4780812
>>No rooms on top of one another are possible.
>wrong
Can you show it in the original game?
Or make a original game WAD where this is possible?

>>4780812
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzpndHtdl9A

>>4780837
I think he is going beyond that.
We are in a discussion about technical limitations of a engine.
And he is all like
>fucking nigger SMB3 can have 3D polygons enemies.

>>4779189
there's no gameplay to push, Duke's enemy AI is nowhere near as complex as Doom's. They exist to look cool and die quickly, that's it.

>>4779076
His Energeia map in AMC EP2 was his best one yet, I think he's working on the new DNF mod update with gambini so I bet whatever's in that is even better

>>4775346
hasn't he only released like 1 map before though, in DukeHard?

>>4775167
Why are you even here, Anon? I saw you in that /v/ thread the other day. Go back there.

>>4779536
It's hard to explain but somehow it's even more fast and crazy than Duke's.


>>4780821
You know it's not possible. Doom and Build have a completely different design philosophy.
Looks like the guy heard the word 'portal', vaguely heard of how RoR works in Shadow Warrior, and wrongly assumed the two were the same things.
Lot's of people make that wrong assumption, it's no big deal, but now he is making a big deal out of it by burying his head in the sand and ignoring this >>4779176


>>4780859
Like I said Doom enemies can be used in a lot more situations, but at the same times there is also the fact that nobody ever really tried to use all enemies at the best of their capacities and try to find new ways to use them.
I think a good example is how it took 20 years for me to play a map which thought of putting Pigtanks behind fences so you couldn't just push their nukebuttons. World Tour maps also make sure the tanks have an escort of other enemies and they always come in pair... Before that, WHEN someone used Pigtanks, they'd use them like in Duke Burger.

>>4779189
I don't mean it this way, I meant as in the mapper pushing himself in new territories, trying to make new layouts, new effects, new architecture, new enemy use, etc rather than sticking to a 'bare minimum to make it look good and functional' mentality

>>4780904
Pig tanks just suck really because it's trivial to run rings around them and hit the button (you barely even need to be facing his back, just hit mash around that rough area and you're good) even if they have enemies with them. I think they alongside the kamikaze drones have aged the worst out of all of Duke's enemies. I did change them a bit in Nuclear Showdown so that if you hit the button, the pig always spawns but if you destroy it yourself he'll always be killed and drop his shotgun so there's actually a reason to not immediately go for the button.

it's still a neat idea and the precursor to a lot of modern enemies having weak points, but it was before its time so the execution is kinda lacking.

>>4780913
the problem is that we already went through that phase in the early 2000s when bobsp1 .etc hit the scene; it's been a long long line of maps trying to imitate that or add new gimmicks or things like that and gameplay took kind of a hit because these very scripted linear maps also meant the mappers took away most of Duke's arsenal and most of them didn't even bother with secrets or inventory items

it's only 'relatively' recently that mappers are going back to using items and stuff rather than this style of gameplay so I always see hyper-detailed stuff as a regression rather than anything interesting

>>4780904
>You know it's not possible.
I assumed it was impossible because I heard about it.

However I can be wrong and he can prove me wrong by showing it in game or making a WAD for the original game.

Personally I remember Duke having RoR for example the submarine when you escape from prison you can walk on top of it under it and inside of it.

>>4779176
>http://fabiensanglard.net/duke3d/index.php
Interesting I have a look into it because I'm fascinated by this technology.

>two floors at the same time, and this is achieved through "hacks"

>sector over sector, as many rooms as one wants on the same plane (regardless of Z axis) as long as you don't see two at the same time.

>as long as you don't see two at the same time.
I did not actually know this.

For me Duke 3D and other Build engine games where the best and finest mainstream 2.5D can get.
RoR did not have limitations of doom and the maps often looked like real cities or human places.
The 2.5D did give it a great feel from the sprites.

Then Quake came and 2.5D was over.

There was something magical to see the 2.5D sprite trickery especially seeing a bottle sprite that has no back.

Also in Duke 2.5D was stretched to its hard core limit try to press the detonate button on the back of the tanks in 2.5D is crazy :D

>>4780959
Duke 3d uses hacks and tricks to have room over room. The sewers in level 2 don't run under the street you're teleported when you drop down the manhole. Portals also let you look into rooms which aren't physically there. As in they have different x and y coordinates but it's rendered as if it's there when looking through a portal. Then when you pass through the portal the player is teleported to a different place.

>>4780959
>Personally I remember Duke having RoR for example the submarine when you escape from prison you can walk on top of it under it and inside of it.

That's not RoR, not the RoR that Blood or SW can do. That example is a 'hack': a first water sector teleports you somewhere else underwater; and then a 2nd water sector teleports you to yet another place, the inside of the sub.
In this case, pic related, the 3 places aren't in the same X/Y coordinates, but they could very well be as long as you don't see 2 sectors which share the same X/Y coordinates at the same time, and this case you don't (the water sectors are two sectors), so they could very well be.

>>4780965
>Portals also let you look into rooms which aren't physically there. As in they have different x and y coordinates but it's rendered as if it's there when looking through a portal. Then when you pass through the portal the player is teleported to a different place.

No, again, DN3D doesn't have this! Every single wall (with a sector behind) is a portal, that's just how the renderer works, but people confuse 'portal' and 'portal'. The mapper did not manually place a 'portal effect' in the cinema room of Hollywood Holocaust or anywhere else in the game. The majority of sector over sector effects in Blood/SW don't either, they only need to when they want the player to see 2 sectors on the same X/Y coordinates at the same time.
Read this, part 2 of 4
http://fabiensanglard.net/duke3d/index.php

So, what's your take on Gambini's levels from DNF2013?

%%I've completed two out of four so far, plus three of the early Gambini's maps. My personal take is that it is a result of a "nuke it from the orbit" - or, at the very least, more than quite cynical - attitude towards DNF-from-THOSE-trailers, and that the mod presents everything relating to those trailers in the context of it being absolutely meaningless trinket gameplay-wise, and an example of decadent and almost criminal wastefulness on 3DRealms' part. It's basically un-game, a glorified walking simulator with "awshum" bells and whistles to provide it with a semblance of complexity that simply isn't and haven't ever been there. It's, like, almost to the point of "Yeaah, we appropriated that melee pigcop from the SW's beast. Now, SW was a pretty good game, and those fuckers were quite dangerous there, yeaaah, SW." and "Remember that level from Rides Again? Yeah, that was pretty fun, wasn't it? Yeahh, Rides Again, good times." What I mean to say, is that it's ALMOST like sort of every game the effects of which are used in order to emulate DNF2001's effects, is framed as being WAY SUPERIOR to what DNF2001 was even supposed to be. Anyway, I currently don't think that DNF2013 was meant to be perceived at its face value, like, at all. It's simply not this mapper's style. There's definitely this thick coat of dry irony however you look at it.%%

>>4780976
>%%
Fuck. Well, whatever.

>>4780976
>"Yeaah, we appropriated that melee pigcop from the SW's beast. Now, SW was a pretty good game, and those fuckers were quite dangerous there, yeaaah, SW."
Actually, this is off the mark. They were probably adapted from newbeasts. My bad.

I still think that the first half of the second level intentionally goes for being the "non-game" version of Rides Again's second? (if I remember correctly) level though.

>>4780976
To say it more briefly, DNF2013 (Gambini's part, at least), from what I've played, well, it's obviously a semblance of another game. A game that was never finished and released, let's call it DNF2001. So, it's DN3D shaped into the semblance of DNF2001. The point however it seems to make is that DNF2001, at least, judging from those trailers, itself, was alike DN3D in semblance, in appearance only, and, substance-wise, had almost NOTHING to do with DN3D to begin with, even before it started aping Halo:CE and HL2.

>>4780994
So, even more briefly, DNF2013 is DN3D shaped into a semblance of an unreleased game that was, at its time, arguably, a game completely unlike DN3D shaped into a semblance of DN3D.

>>4780924
That's my point though, Pigtanks can be made non trivial if you put a little thought into it, but it took 20 years for that to happen twice, and one of those 2 was Levelord.
DN3D mappers were never really that interested to come up with new clever ways to use enemies, their interests were always elsewhere, because you can do a lot of other things with DN3D. In Doom, that's one of the only things they got, so they did.

>>4780939
Not what I meant either, but whatever. I mean I feel like he always does things the easy way when they could be better with a little more ambition.

>>4780976
Yeah, DNF2013 is a great DN3D mod but it's highly overrated by people calling it "the DNF we should have gotten". The only things that make the mod better than the game are things inherent to DN3D.
The mod does a great job at putting to life things we saw in trailers that we never got, but it stops there. Everything that is common to both the mod and the actual DNF we got was better in the actual DNF.
The casino was better, why put slot machines if you can't use them? You could in DNF. The dam was better, the ghost town was better, the monster truck was better than the bike... The highway part was better in DNF, it's clear you have to dodge the barrels, in the mod I don't even know if I'm supposed to stop to shoot the turrets or not.... and because they didn't seem to know either and realized it wasn't enough, they put sprites on the road, like pieces of cardboard, which deal 50dmg if you run them over, great fun there.

Again it's a great DN3D mod that does a good job at putting to life things from the trailers, but people calling it "the DNF that should have been" are missing the point, I think that wasn't even the intended point by the modders, the point was to remake the trailers.

>>4780973
Also,

>>4779130
>Some Doom source ports have adopted these features now too.

You may be able to port RoR to Doom, but I don't think you can port Sector over Sector unless you completely rethink how the engine works to begin with. What I mean is: you may be able to mimick the cinema of Hollywood Holocaust in Doom sourceports using RoR, but you'll never be able to remake Lunatic Fringe and Tier Drops unless you use RoR and a whole bunch of teleporting effects and the different layers would never be on the same X/Y coordinates.

>>4781012
problem with ambition is that it leads to mappers taking 3-4 years to release a map, and the community is just too small to warrant that kind of effort. With Doom, it's a large community so things like BtsX or Valiant go down in history - in Duke there's nothing like that. There's a couple of unconnected review sites but most people are too fucking lazy to PLAY maps let alone review them, there's zero effort on Duke4 admin's part to foster any of the creativity (the main page is just dedicated to stupid news posts about duke) The duke map tumblr was something approaching that but then the author stopped updating it so that's gone as well.

Duke sorely needs something like the Cacoawards but it doesn't have that, none of the 'big cheeses' in the community actually play any of the fucking stuff released or even interact with it in anyway. Mikko is way too easy with his review scores but MSDN is still pretty much the only review site actually worth visiting, it at least has a big database and some history to it. Even the Duke topics that pop up every now and then on /vr/ basically consist of that one anon who wants to be the Armond White of map reviews and then everybody else just talking about the vanilla game.

>>4781012
>Pigtanks can be made non trivial if you put a little thought into it, but it took 20 years for that to happen twice, and one of those 2 was Levelord
What was the other one? I remember playing it, but I can't remember the name of the map

>>4781052
The system that Duke reviewers use is something I can't wrap my head around at all. Every piece of shit map gets 80+ score.
What I got from MSDN is that 85-86 means somewhere around 7, 87-88 means 7.5 and etc.
Of course, numeric score don't really give as much insight as an actual review, but scores still often feel a lot more generous than what reading the actual review might imply.

>>4781052
I mean, it always feel this way:
>office area
>one corridor, 2 rooms
>office area [x], checked
Then move on to next zone and repeat. The design mentality feels very streamlined and minimalist.
In the AMC TC ep2 map, why not for instance have a more interconnected layout, have the player mount the mech, have in unmount to enter a building and open a gate so he can go on with the mech; and even let the player choose not to ever use the mech if he wants to.
That wouldn't require 3-4 years, just a different design mentality I would enjoy more.
Anyway it's just an example, in the case of this AMC TC map it may not be a problem and it's good to have different kind of maps for the whole thing, just saying Sandt maps always feel streamlined and minimalist to me when I know he could do a lot more if he tried.

>>4781060

ACB Studios, had the Pigtanks behind a fence

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwwKNn5yddA&t=3m

>>4781083
Can you show me some examples of maps that in your opinion do not follow this mentality? But I beg you don't start with your shit about Insurance Overload/Refinery.

>>4781083
I get what you mean; for what it's worth I do prefer that kind of non-linearity too, it's just hard to do as a lot of people who check out the mod are ...trained, for lack of a better word, by modern games to not really bother or want to explore. testing it is a fucking nightmare because I get pulled between the people who want linear maps and people who want free-roaming maps with multiple pathways. The biggest issue is that the latter players can still play and beat a linear experience, but the former really REALLY struggle with non-linear maps (and then also get angry and blame the author most of the time)

Micky wants to make giant free-roaming maps whereas other mappers prefer the more modern room-hallway-room format. I tend to stick to the middle, at least my map layout skills have improved vastly over the last couple of years so I think I can strike a good balance between the two. in a no-homo way I was thinking of aspects you might like when I was building one of the EP3 egyptian maps. I think Life Tower's popularity made me realise a few things when it came to building maps.

to make up for my blathering, here's a wip screenshot of one of the maps I'm making for alien armageddon (which should be out for july 1st)

>>4781127
The worst things about AMC were vehicle sections and shit hitscan enemies firing CONSTANTLY.
I don't know if this was a bug or not, but I fucking hated pigcops and black coat cultists because of that. Freaking hell.

>>4781219
On higher difficulty levels they were more accurate, but in this release I nerfed the damage buff they got since it did make certain sections borderline unplayable.

in ep3 the whole egypt section has zero hitscan enemies, and I have moved away from them slightly in general (although they'll always be around in some form at least, mainly because there's a limit to how fast projectiles can move in Duke without fucking up completely and becoming unusable if they're fired at any kind of z-axis)

>>4781238
Speaking of borderline unplayable, I remember one level where you play as russian guy and James, that was a fucking nightmare.
I guess it also comes down to my taste since I like it as raw as it is possible.
Sometimes I get real pissy about all the additional HUD effects like burning and arrows and shit. It obscures the screen too much.

>>4781276
that's fair enough - I have worked on that level a bit more but it was more geared towards adding a bit of z-axis combat (so enemies on balconies and shit rather than just all level) at least sniping has been fixed somewhat so it's far more usable now than it was in previous releases.

there's just gonna be some levels that are going to be hated; one of the advantages of the mod at least is that if you really hate a level you never need to play it again. I try to make the more difficult levels optional so they're not needed to beat an episode (same thing applies to the jungle levels in ep2)

has there ever been a duke nukem remake in the quake engine? I know there has in the half life one

I think it'd be cool to have 2d sprites in a 3d world as it'd allow for more level geometry

>>4777282
The ps1 games sucked but dont talk shit about manhattan and zero hour

>>4780924
Kamikaze drones are great, but very few people understood using them. They are best at packs in open areas like in Fusion station, Occupied territory, Dark side, LA rumble or Freeway. Even in World Tour, the authors remembered them well, and used them the best way in Golden Carnage or Tour de Nukem.

Unfortunately most people remember them from Incubator and Warp factor, where they were badly fucked up. They are also dysfunctional in user maps where most authors mix them with other enemies.

The weird thing about community levels they didn't age too well. I used to like many of them when they were released, but now I find most of them amateurish and horrible to look at. Roch levels are good examples, but I tried Dark Place series, Red series, ADG episode and others too, and couldn't bother finishing them.

The original episodes are still fresh looking, especially Blum maps.

>>4782650
depends on the map, but I get what you're saying - I do think maps like ADG series have aged poorly since at the time the detail stuff was kinda neat but now all I think is 'these maps are way too fucking cramped'

>>4783431
The last ADG map was no different.

The machine gun feels like a pea shooter and the shotgun is most relied on middle gun.

>>4773197
>The owner of the entire series is the biggest sjw cuck fag of them all

Truly a disaster.

>>4783431
Not cramped, but blocky and linear. Also no ambient sounds and monster/weapon placement was wtf. Basically shotgun is your only weapon for most levels.

I think if Randy is smart he will announce a contest for mappers that can have levels for the sixth episode.

ADG6? That was a disaster. Typical early 2000s detailing, linear layout, terrible monster spawning.

Both games are currently $3.39 each. They worth it?

>>4783847
The moster spawning was the worst of all ADGs as far as I'm concerned.

Who are the most talented mappers for Duke? People who have the ability to pull off an LA Meltdown calibre episode?

>>4779189
>To be honest, is there a single fucking Duke mapper who pushes the gameplay limits of the game in way that is not just grand views or overstaturating their maps with details?

See: >>4774042

>>4772875
Nesfag I missed you man.

>>4780939
>the problem is that we already went through that phase in the early 2000s when bobsp1 .etc hit the scene; it's been a long long line of maps trying to imitate that or add new gimmicks

I'm sorry for those maps. I didn't realize the effect they would have at the time. SP4 was the only actually innovative one imo.

>>4783852

You smack a fat retard in the face with a shovel to end each level. What is that worth to you?

> if you talk to a friend about it, he will look to you with some disdain smile.
You need to stop living in /v/ the real world isn't infested with SJWs like they make it out to be.

>>4784082
Is it even a decent fps?

>>4784182

Yes, level design and gameplay are solid. But the humor is polarizing, depends if you find demented redneck baboozery funny or not

>>4781129

Cool textures. I also really like the high contrast lighting.

>>4784182
Yeah and it's got Beat Farmers in the OST so even if the gameplay were shit it's still worth $3.39.

>>4784676
Sorry but best build engine OST goes to extreme paintbrawl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li5mXnHyg9w

>>4772875
>it's considered an old joke, if you talk to a friend about it, he will look to you with some disdain smile.
No it isn't, you melodramatic fuck.
Most people who grew up on old FPS games consider Duke3D to be a fine game. Stop making shit up just to start arguments, you worthless faggot.

>>4784689
That's actually pretty cool. Reminds me of this the way it's constantly changing on the fly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZSw73DLq-0

1) Who is the most art-house, downright weird and marching-to-his-own-beat Duke mapper you have ever came across? Hard mode: disregarding the author of Plug'n'Prey (regardless of whether you consider him to fit tge description).

2) Did anyone here play like the levels from "500 Duke levels from Internet!!!" CDs from like 1996 to 1998? Any decent stuff there?

>>4784884
As much hate as Plug n Pray gets, those maps, well, most of them are far better than the vast majority of the community maps are. Layout-wise, encounter-wise, and novelty-wise as well. Environmental design could have been better, although shadows and textures are impressive though.

>>4784884

>Who is the most art-house, downright weird and marching-to-his-own-beat Duke mapper you have ever came across?

Zykov Eddy, without a doubt

>>4784884
By the way, speaking of weird and stuff, I mentioned here seven Mikko Sandt's maps back from 1998. Before the MSSP, before the Future and Fight the Future episodes. They ARE a lot more weird and "anything goes", than his later stuff, up to the point of being downright surreal, and I found them genuinely interesting in the same sense I found Plug'n'Pray genuinely interesting. There are some genuinely interesting gameplay situations as well. Now, all of them can be downloaded from MSDN, but some of the links are, well, incorrect. The link provided by the page doesn't match the link the actual file is situated at. So getting them actually required a bit of effort from me. So, well, here is the archive with all the seven of them (without the readmes though, I don't have them anymore, and redownloading the archives would, eh, I don't wanna waste my time on that):
http://dropmefiles.com/oKaHA

>>4785080
Oh, yeah, and they also look like shit, just, well, so you know.

Doom is a revolutionary shooter with simple but effective gameplay, great modding tools and modding community. Duke is just a gimmicky game with a horrible level editor and poor modding tools. Weak enemies and a protagonist that is now a laughing stock.

Doom is like wine, Duke is like milk.

>>4785312
Nice bait anon.

>>4784073
I wouldn't say its your fault at all, they were still really neat maps - it's just like everything decent gets its imitators but only a few of those actually really do anything interesting with the idea, others are just soulless copies.

>>4784884
Zaxtor, Oblivion and Trequonia are both made with absolutely zero regard for the player and that's kind of why I like them.

>>4785814
This. I love his maps even though sometimes they go so insanely overboard it's barely playable.

>>4785814
Zaxtor's maps are the clear symptoms of autism. I don't even care if he comes up with something new. Imagine they hired this guy instead of Blum or Levelord to make the game. It would have been a bomb.

>>4785910
I think he is legit autistic, but I still like Oblivion.

>>4785814
>Zaxtor
>Time of build... over 127.5 HOURS
>Time of build... in the 9 days about 133 hours
>Time of build... 141 to 152 hours
>Time of build... about 98 hours
>Time of build... 25 hours
>Time of build... between 40 to 41 hours
>Time of build... between 113 to 115.5 hours
>Time of build... 96 hours
Man, that's some quality speedmapping right there.

>>4786192
>in the 9 days about 133 hours
And, I mean, this absolutely takes the cake. 15 hours per day, 9 days in a row? I mean, what the actual fuck.

And he still didn't realize his maps are shit.

>>4773006
Duke is easy, honestly. Blood is actually hard though.

The main thing I remember about Duke3d was the variety. I mean the first episode has the theater, red-light district, prison, water treatment, canyon and alien ship. This in an era when most maps were like "generic space facility" or "brown corridors #57". And the levels often introduced a variety of new mechanics as well.

It's not as polished as something like Doom which focused on a small core set of mechanics, but the variety and level design made up for it. I guess it's like the Sonic to Doom's Mario.

>>4777287
this

>>4778664

>>4779684
The Blood monsters were sculpted in clay, except I don't remember actual pictures of the Phantasm. They had a dedicated monster artist regardless, why would you even assume they'd have stolen something?

>>4781072
MSDN is not Duke reviewer"s".

>>4772875

what do you guys think of this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=129&v=zjEbwtg2luo

I sensed someone was mentioning me.

About buenos Aires explosive. Yeah... isn't that like... 15 years old or something? heh. Yeah it was pretty sucky.

>>4777282
>the 2D Duke games are shit too.
go go kys

>>4787590

Yo, what are your thoughts on this? >>4774042

>>4787606
Hi bob! I played this when you posted it on the discord. Really nice gameplay features! As usual you made great looking setpieces to go along with this interesting take on a metroid like type of gameplay. You never dissapoint. I also played bobsp1 thanks to gambini who sent me that map on a floppy disk on actual mail envelope! We always looked at it for inspiration :)

>>4787615

Not bob, didn't know you'd played it. I found it on MSDN and was curious what a community veteran thought about it.

I have not seen many puzzle oriented maps like that. Have I not been looking extensively enough? Are you aware of any more like this where the entire map is a puzzle?

>>4787618
Sorry for the confusion.

Yeah i have not seen many! Its not the usual duke3d style of map thats for sure. Maybe there is one, but im not aware of it and woth IM i dont have much time for usermaps as id like to.

>>4787618
>>4787615
I think you're getting people confused, Bob Averill did not make Duketroid

>Are you aware of any more like this where the entire map is a puzzle?

You can try some of Mister Sinister's maps, like Naked Dash and HEALTH

http://msdn.duke4.net/hotnakeddash.php
http://msdn.duke4.net/hothealth.php

>>4787624

Oh, that's a disappointment. Is there any way to add new items into Duke? So there could be an entire episode of maps like that, but with a different set of items you have to collect in order from one map to the next instead of the same standard items over and over.

I imagine this would be impossible on vanilla Duke even with a lot of con hacking, but eDuke is basically infinitely reconfigurable, right?

>>4787557
Otheer people use this system too, at least I'd seen it.

>>4778179
can i use eduke to play multiplayer

>>4787879
no

>>4786239
Are you referring to the thread or something else?
>coping through escalation is a cosplay method
>Dukebagarh
>Medieval period level in DNZ never because?

>Shotgun 3D: The game

>>4784073
>>4774042
Okay what the fuck, a simple google search tells me Alex Beyman and Bob Averill are the same person.

What the fuck? Was Bob Averill a pseudonym all along? Did you take another name to be left alone? Why not mentionning the Bob Sp maps on your blog and pretend Duketroid is your first real Build map?

>>4788335
Wtf?

>>4788335

Googling "Alex Beyman" reveals he's published some books. Writers commonly use pseudonyms to protect themselves from crazies. See: Stephen King's 'Misery'.

>>4788363
>>4788396
Okay, I think he was pretending to try and get some money on steem it. Still fucked though.

>>4788424

Or they are the same guy, but he doesn't want his identity out there on a public website. Large mobs of anonymous people can be a scary thing

>>4788439
>identity out there
>already has a bunch of maps with his name out there and his name is extremely well known in the community

nobody fucking cares who you are unless you've done something to deserve this kind of paranoia

>>4788439
and also
>large mobs of anons

nigga how many replies does this thread get compared to the doom topic, which itself is considered too slow to be on /vg/ normally (even though it has more of a place than the generals for dead series like Mass Effect)

the audience for Duke is absolutely tiny, it's the height of egotism to assume you're gonna get attention for it, let alone unwanted attention

also in duke news, RPS.com had a best 50 fps list and snubbed Duke again. I try and like that site but then they go and do something ridiculous like that which reminds me they have no real critical merit.

I seriously don't understand where you guys got they are the same guy.

>>4788609
OK, they are both from Portland, that's all what I found.

>>4788597
You say that but all I've done is make mods and yet I've had some tumblr nerds hunt me down for half a year because they don't like anime.

I recall there was a weird bug in a game where the BattleLord boss in LA Meltdown gets killed over that open manhole cover near one of the over passes.

I saved the game and got killed and reloaded from that point.

The boss falls into the hole and then FALLS OUT OF THE SKY, landing with a splattering of blood, only to fall into the hole again, ad infinitum.


I still have that gave saved on my old hard drive 20+ years on.

>>4789078
record it and post it on youtube

>>4788641
Having 2 Dukers from the same town is unlikely, but it is possible. Believe it or not but ck3D (aka MRCK) and I lived in the same hometown, a small city of roughly 50-60k inhabitants.
I found out about it because several of his maps are based on real locations from that town. His map Anarchy City 2 is based on the neighbourhood where he grew up, and coincidentally I used to be a postman in that neighbourhood during 2-3 weeks as a summer job.

One of his older maps is based on a part of another town, which ironically is 1km away from where I live right now. Now though, being an older map it's barely recognizable and it's just some appartment buildings, nothing special like the other maps.


>>4788609
Compare his profile pic on Duke4 with the ones on steem it.

>>4789078
>LA Metldown
I think you mean the mini BattleLords in Freeway, with the manhole to the sewer?

>>4789465
Yea, both aliases have the same black sunglasses, same hairstyle, same face. Duketroid could fit well into the Bobsp series too, with scarce monsters, lots of newbeasts to wake up (bobsp x), sharp shadings and such. Almost 100% they are the same.

>>4789465
Which town is that?

>>4789535
Mianus

>>4789535
This one

>>4789060

For me it was butthurt creationists. All fun and games until they got my personal info and began contacting everybody I knew to "warn" them I was a sexually depraved racist.

It didn't fool friends or family but showed up in the first page of google searches for my name, which prevented me from holding down a job or relationship until the hosting expired.

Can anyone help a casual Linux user (I had to install Ubuntu on one of those failed Win7 Starter netbooks because it was otherwise refusing to do anything and heat up like crazy) get set up with eDuke32? I have to somehow compile the entire source myself, and I'm not sure how that is done, since I only set up this system three days ago and I'm still fighting with some of the commands.

>>4789608
Very poor remake of the actual city, mapper should get some lessons from Blum how to create believable streets with proper shading and size.

What's the best version of duke3d? Megaton, 20th anniversary or atomic? Also is there an equivalent of zdoom for duke? I need to use a controller as i'm on a laptop.

>>4789951
Eduke32 with a legal copy of duke3d.grp added in the folder.

To play the fifth episode, you are stuck with anniversary edition so far, hopefully for not so long.

>>4789989
Thanks man, I read the full thread but couldn't really see much about it. Is anniversary considered bad I take it?

>>4789989
No, there is "Compatibility Stopgap" you can get from duke4 forums for that. It's perfectly playable by and large, but the new weapon, new lighting and the end boss do not work in it.

>>4789746
are you sure you need to compile it yourself? you normally add the duke3d repository to your apt sources list and just install the program.

i have compiled the source myself though, so i could cheat at the hardest setting for map testing. it was really easy to compile, i think it was as simple as "make" ?

>>4772875
I have the feeling that if it would came out two years before Quake instead of just a few months, that it would be more appreciated as a great game than just a meme game.

>>4773006
I agree on that. Most of my death in Duke3D came through surprising enemy encounters (enemies lying on the ground in deep shadows shooting me if I only walk 1 mm in the next room to see if there are enemies even in it).
I wouldn't say that you must memorize entire levels, but a few areas for sure.

What is the worst Duke Noukem Level?

Duke 64 multiplayer is more fun than GoldnEye, does not get the love it deserves

>>4792562
Stadium. It has like 10 square sectors.

>>4792562
Boss and secret levels aside, it's probably Fahreinheit, with Movie Set, Rabid Transit and XXX Stacy running close.

But you know, those symmetrical secret levels designed for MP (Tier Drops, Spin Cycle, Lunatic Fringe, Prima Arena, Faces of Death), and boss corridor levels (Overlord, Stadium, Hollywood Inferno) are the worst objectively.

>>4792820
Dude, Tier Drops, Lunatic Fringe and Spin Cycle are tons of fun and they do some cool unique things

>>4792820
XXX Stacy has a dead man walking scenario if played from pistolstart. It's perfectly possible to trap yourself for good there.

>>4792957
These kind of maps were exciting back then, when room over room was the thing, but these things don't age too well. Now, they are just testlevels for some game features. And don't know what technical brilliances did we see in Spin Cycle. It's just one rotating sector.

>>4792982
You sound as if you'd prefer living in a musty porno rental store...

>>4794113
Yeeaaaaaahh.
Musty porno rental store...
.
.
.
You were saying?

>>4787536
Well there's obviously a real similarity between the two so either someone copied the other or the artwork of the monster is based off a known design that predates both, or whoever did the blood monsters also made the BBS artwork

>>4772875
>>>But not Duke. Duke 3D rarely appears on the sharper end of the best FPS games list, it's considered an old joke, if you talk to a friend about it, he will look to you with some disdain smile.

>"Yea that old game with the strippers and the chew bubble gum quote"


I don't know what the fuck you're smoking or what backwards shithole you hail from, but I've always seen Duke 3D in the same list as Doom/Quake etc.

I'm serious, I've never seen Duke 3D disdained the way you seem to think it is.

>>4775167
>using a weapon that the level designers didn't intend for you to have access to for that section
>HURR LE ENEMIES ARE EASY AND SHIT LMAOOOOO

>>4794567
>muh pistol start

>>4775167
Nice moves. I rather like your playing style.

>>4794603
There's literally only one chaingun in a relatively out of the way secret in the entire game before that point, it's really doubtful that a first time player would know about it and a more experienced player should be playing on a harder difficulty to challenge themselves more.

>>4794767
Look at those dancing goalposts. Unless I'm wrong, isn't >>4775167 UV?

>>4794524
Why couldn't someone just create the BBS artwork based on the game's monster?

>>4795213
Of course it's UV. Can't go lower than that without having my heart stop within 5 minutes from the sheer boredom of playing that game.

>>4794567
Pretty sad attempt at damage control. If the game doesn't kill you you take your weapons forward and that's "what the devs intended". Pistol starting is optional and it ain't my fault the game can't kill me. If you ever die in OG Doom on UV or lower you should literally kys for being a mong. Anyway pistol starting Dumb is brain dead, too, so a total moot point regardless.

>>4794767
>and a more experienced player should be playing on a harder difficulty to challenge themselves more.

You know some of us play video games to relax dickbag, its not always about "muh challenge".

>>4794682
It's pretty standard gameplay tbqhwyf.

>>4796732
No, this >>4796296 is quite standard (even if by the same player).
Difference is in the second video player has to evade hitscanners, which leads to the leaps behind the cover and back at the very least. Moreover, trying to score more damage leads to just throwing yourself in the middle of the fight with sweeping turns left and right while the shotgun reloads. It simply looks haphazard and way less controlled than the usage of chaingun in the first video. What I liked about the first video was the degree of finesse and control over the situation the player exhibited, with swift but extremely limited, just sufficient enough, moves. It sort of reminded me of a bee. Player sort of hovers around a single point, while doing his thing, but while also making it apparent that he could dart any direction any moment, if need be. I consider that sort of movement a hallmark of an experienced Doom player also because if you move minimally, and cover only the already treaded, known to be safe, ground, you don't trigger any additional enemy spawns while mid-fight. And if you are playing the map for the first time - obviously, not the case here, you have no way of knowing where the triggers are, since they are invisible. So, making do with minimally sufficient moves only is sort of the way you factor out the triggers.
Anyway, the radical difference between the styles of play in the second and in the first video lies in the necessity to evade hitscanners and in, basically, "dancing to shotgun's tune" in order to save on ammo AND time spent on disposing the enemies, as opposed to "dancing to one's own tune" in the first video. Truth be told, I am starting to like shotgun less and less due to it coercing player to sacrifice his freedom of movement with there generally being not enough ammo (at least, on pistolstarts) to play it without jumping through the hoops while trying to wring the most out of it.

>>4797258
And, I mean, jumping through the hoops is fine and all, but it's only fun for the first 9000 times.

Another point is that shotgun is too fucking weak. Even two-shotting pinkies is not a given, and with cacos and barons it's, like, just, fuck it. This also coerces the player into jumping through hoops, since disposing of the foes at the distance with shotgun is fucking long and boring. Basically, zombies being fragile baits the player into thinking shotgun is a somewhat powerful gun, while, really and truly, it very much isn't. It's slightly, but notably underpowered given the factual roster. Making its damage, like, 1.3 times higher (without changing anything else) would probably make it fine for what it is. In any case, on pistolstarts especially, and given the amount of small rooms and tight corridors on the levels, shotgun is the main Doom player's "working horse". And it's just sad that through ammo pickup manipulation the player is baited into this highly unnatural jarring twitchy style of movement that's not only highly repetitive, but that also looks like shit as well.

>>4797272
I mean, what happens with shotgun is simply a somewhat less evident version of how melee is utilized in Doom. You wanna save up on ammo? Here, let me magnetize you to the enemy and effectively make you watch a cutscene for up to couple of seconds (if chainsawing caco, for example). It's, like, the difference between playing it your own way and playing it SOMEONE's way. Between being free and, well, not free.

>>4797272
It's more even like the pinkie, it having JUST enough health to survive two shotgun shots in, like, a half of typical combat encounters with them, is ALSO used as a bait. "You COULD two-shot it, and to save on ammo AND time, if you utilized your gun more effectively!".

>>4797287
I meant the third shot is practically always an overkill, and that changing gun to something else AND back JUST to save some on that pinkie is just slower than effectively wasting that third shotgun shot.

>tfw no duke nukem forever 20001-2002
what are some good duke fangames/mods?

>some guy out there is playing DNF RIGHT NOW and cant share it

>>4798376

Serious Sam is better

>>4800296
Gross.

Eurocom made Duke Nukem: Zero Hour and they also ported Duke 3D to N64. The N64 version of Duke 3D is actually the most violent version.

>>4801668
>pic
>a gored up naked chick is less controversial than a naked chick
wew

>>4801683
Pretty much. Eurocom filled the game with eviscerated women as a way of thumbing their noses at Nintendo.

Is mapping for D3D some sort of surreal nightmare?

>>4801683
>/jp/

>>4801750
Not really, mapster32 is relatively easy to learn, but there's a lot of nuances considering the effects. A door in Doom as I remember is a simple sector which assigns speed and sound, in Duke there are so many different effects with doors and for each one there are multiple SE you have to set.

>>4774093
Not for me.
I played it a few years ago with the dosbox and it was cool, after all those years i really enjoyed it for the first time.
I think your issue is not that much the first gen.
First Quake is pretty peculiar, it holds his unique style which in a way it sets it apart from the ensuing series.
ID Software was in turmoil back then, it was the beginning of the end of the 1990s.

>>4802156
>it was the beginning of the end of the 1990s.
These clueless 20 something year old geek revisionists that have read masters of doom really oughta shut the fuck up already about shit they have no idea about. Quake was fucking huge and was celebrated, still is. Its the game that not only was revolutionary in terms of being the full 3d fps, but it also launched the online community into the beast that it is today. It was also the base engine that lead to games like half life, then counter strike, and so on. It was also a mid 90s game and fps remained strong that entire decade, even if the doom style formula was abandoned. Contrary to what you might believe however, at the time it was a breath of fresh air and we had had our fill of doom era fps. Please, keep your shit in the bab general with the rest of your idiot peers.

>>4800236
>guy also showed off some alpha version of max payne

>>4802242
It was the beginning of the end of the 1990s.

>>4802242
It was the end of the beginning.

Are you happy now?
Ffs...it's just a game.
I thought here on /vr/ things were different somehow.
As much as i agree with what you obviously state about Quake...let me also tell you i was well alive when it came out and i never read Masters Of Doom once in my life.
Oh btw, please...don't call me a "Geek".
Thanks

>>4772875
duke is actually one of the best out of all of them, anyone who disagrees doesn't play video games for the game part.
duke vs doom for example - in doom you could not jump, duck, have jetpack, inventory system, interesting mechanics like holoduke, weapons that allow for multiple approaches (set up traps with trip mines, pipe bombs, etc), neat weapons like shrink ray + stomp and freezethrower + kick to shatter, some of which are still not in games today except maybe KF2 but still less interactive

silly little things like fire hydrants destructable, toilets, mirrors with reflections, lights that you can shoot out, generally grounded in reality architecture, tons and tons of things I'm not even mentioning. subway cars moving, many many types of doors, even (swinging doors and star trek doors) as opposed to doom's one type (floor to ceiling), destructable environments, sectors over sectors with maps like tier drops especially a good example, which reminds me, really good and accessible level editor,

and of course a character with a personality, and a map with the monolith from 2001
pretty great game