/vr/ - Retro Games

Yeah, no

>>4760947
Revenge of Shinobi wins

CONSOLE WARS XDXDXDXD
subjectivesubjectivesubjectivesubjective stop making these fucking threads

>>4760947
Sega has several magnum opuses
>>4760960
That's not even the best zelda, let alone nintendo game

Sega was never good.

>>4760960
überrated as fuck. Nintendo has quite a few better games.

Mario 64 and Sonic 2?

nintendo, no question

Take Nintendo's magnum condom and compare it with Sega's petite condom.

>>4760947
Both are great games and we should be thankful that we have such huge library of games to choose from both companies.
:^) >>4760968>CONSOLE WARS XDXDXDXD
>subjectivesubjectivesubjectivesubjective stop making these fucking threads

>>4760947
the fuck is a magnum opus i get only pic related

>>4760968
I wouldn't mind these threads if they actually contained the console warriors. It's getting ridiculous how quickly every console specific thread is derailed by shitposters.

On topic: Nintendo has way more to offer in this category. Phantasy Star was great, but that's about as far as I remember Sega getting into a series that contains any sort of depth or real scale. Sonic, as much as I love the games, is too shallow to qualify in my opinion.

>>4760947
What the hell does Nintendo have that compares to Shenmue?

Sega because /vr/ contrarianism.

>>4761680

>>4760947
guys you did it you finally made the thread that got me to stop liking what I like and realizing what a big retard I am for not exclusively liking things you like

you've done it you're finished. your epic journey to ruin boards with your fucking presence is now over

Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution is better than every Nintendo game but that's not retro so I guess Nintendo wins.

>>4761738
Delet this post right now anon

Altered Beast is a fun Sega game.

>>4761658
I liked how opa opa'a guns and bombs always fired at the same time so whenever he was shooting at those little chromosome looking twistie dudes he was also causing horrendous collateral damage and civilian casualties below

Sega was literally never good.

>>4762447
Shut up, Nintensoyboy.

>>4762450
Did you think you were being clever by mashing those words together like that?

Nintendo: pokemon
Sega: (I don't know what to put here)

Nintendo wins

>>4762456
I thought I told you to shut your mouth, ya little bitch.

>>4762447
the shits

>>4760947
>Sega's Magnum Opus
Phantasy Star 4

this thread just proves that the rest of 6th gen should never be included here

Shenmue wins
Sorry

>>4761738
You can make the same post by citing VF3.

There are multiple studios within these publishers it's unreasonable to try to claim either has a "Magnum Opus" but there are no Nintendo cinematic adventure games as good as Shenmue, no RPGs as good as Phantasy Star 4, no arcade games as good as Crazy Taxi, no fighting games as good as Virtua Fighter. What Nintendo is best at is branding and it turns out in the end branding wins.

>>4762654
Gramps, I knew abour your hateboner for the N64, but I didn't know you were full-on anti-Nintendo.
It's fine to prefer Sega, but to claim all Nintendo does is "branding" is just shitty opinions of a kid who wasn't a Segatendo idort.
Also, Super FUCKING Metroid.

>>4760947
Sega has Streets Of Rage, Sonic The Hedgehog, Shenmue, Yakuza, Virtua Fighter, House Of The Dead, Virtual On, Phantasy Star, Jet Set Radio, Vectorman, Crazy Taxi, Seaman, Fighting Vipers, Virtua Cop.

Nintendo has Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Pokemon, Donkey Kong and Kirby.

Sega wins.

>>4762698
Gramps is right though. Sega has titles that Nintendo could not match or have a counterpart of. I love both companies, but Sega is miles better when it comes to games. Nintendo is all about branding and not innovating or branching beyond the titles they're use to making. Sega took risks and it shows with titles like Shenmue and Seaman.

>>4762748
>mention a bunch of Sega IPs, some that aren't even that noteworthy like Vectorman and Fighting Vipers
>only mention a handful of Nintendo franchises, omitting completely ones like F-Zero, Star Fox or Mother
did by this he meant what?

>>4762756
I think that's just minimizing Nintendo's work though.
I know I'll get shit for mentioning 2 of the most famous games of all time that many people consider awe-bay-ray-ted, but there's no way Super Mario 64 and OOT weren't Nintendo taking huge risks. They could have failed hard and taint the franchises forever, but instead they made 2 of the most influential games of all time.
I think both Sega and Nintendo are great when it comes to games.
I never considered Shenmue to be that great of a game, I mean in gameplay mechanics. It's great because of the scope of it, how it did "go anywhere and do EVERYTHING!" before GTA3, and I also love the setting in 80s Japan, but in terms of actual gameplay, eh.
Seaman is just a tamagotchi with super weird art direction. From the Seaman creator, I think Odama was more interesting, albeit it was at its core just a pinball game.

>>4762776
And I meant to say, when I was talking about Shenmue not being that great in terms of actual gameplay, that Sega was actually great back in the 80s. Hang-On, Space Harrier, OutRun, Sega was on fire back then.

>>4762776
>Super Mario 64 & OOT
Mario and Zelda games were not huge risks. Zelda and Mario titles always sells on Nintendo consoles. As for Shenmue, you literally could do everything in that game. GTA3 didn't have the depth of exploration & interaction that Shenmue had. Killing people and stealing cars in GTA3 gets old very quick. Whereas with Shenmue, it felt life-like. As for Seaman, you're literally having a conversation with a fish.

>>4762760
F-Zero, Star Fox and Mother aren't noteworthy either.

>>4762827
I'm not shitting on FV, but it's basically not-Virtua Fighter.
As for Vectorman, it's just okay.
There's many other Sega games he could have mentioned, where's Space fucking Harrier?

>>4760947
this is hard to compare as fuck
Sega's magnum opus is arguably Daytona USA (was the game that kickstarted the adoption of 3D graphics in the industry, brought in an absurd amount of money to the point where it was the highest grossing single arcade release, plus it's just a well made game). It's short, it's sweet, it looks good, sounds good, and plays great. It's peak Sega. It hits on all the hallmarks of Sega's best arcade games.

this is dramatically different to pretty much anything that Nintendo has ever released, which are generally longer, more exploratory affairs
Sega's roots were in the arcade before they even really made video games, so they always hit on quick, fun thrill-ride style design that you'd play over and over that brought in money there instead of longer, more "in-depth" experiences like what Nintendo put out (what with Nintendo's success being found in the home market instead, where games like that were loads more profitable there than they would be in the arcade).

as an aside, I'd probably pick Sega over Nintendo at this point just because I more often find myself wanting a quick playthrough of something that I know will take less then five minutes (crazy taxi used to be my go-to game for that, but now I'm actually decent at that game, so runs take well over 10 minutes)
not to mention that I was never really a fan of Metroid, Zelda, Mario 64, anything really exploration-oriented really

>>4761738
>>4762642
It's all about Fighters Megamix.

>>4760947
Game? Nintendo.
System? Sega.

>>4763017
And honestly possibly even Sega for a game.

>>4762879
Fighting Vipers was actually not that bad. I like the idea of fighters having armor that can be dismantled during a fight. The armor actually makes them look cooler. But I agree, Space Harrier is awesome.

>>4762474
I had one of these, kind of envied the other kids for their 40 hour battery life
also all the games for this were shit unless you used the master gear converter to play your old games on a really small screen

>>4763003
I have that game for my Japanese Sega Saturn.

>>4763108
nah, the GG had some good exclusives
GG Shinobi, G-LOC, Sonic Triple Trouble

kinda wish I had any of those as a kid though, Sonic 2 on GG sucked

>>4763118
Ooh anon you're so cool!

>>4763143
I had GG Shinobi and G-Loc
Shinobi was ok I guess but g-loc for he Game Gear was honestly one of the worst games ever

Segas magnum opus is Pengo.

>>4763003
>>4763107
StF is unironically AM2s best experiment
>That actually interesting barrier system
>Diverse playstyles that are pretty out there for a 3D fighter
>GOAT visuals that still hold up and are arguably the best 3D representation of the character to this day.

>>4760960
>literally whatever game
>not even best zelda

>>4760947
bait post.
comparing same console generation though, usually Nintendo.
Magnum opus is too subjective.

Mario VS Sonic
>Sonic
Castlevania Rondo VS Bloodlines
>Rondo
Pretty much everything else
>Nintendo
Sound quality
>Nintendo
Graphics
>god damn the genesis had some sweet fucking graphics
However
I gotta say
Soul Caliber on sega dreamcast was a fucking masterpiece and I've never understood how Nintendo 64 was even considered mediocre.
It was pretty much a garbage system that was beaten out by Playstation and Sega less than what a year?

NES/SNES no doubts about it, Clear winner in almost every scenario possible.

>>4763432
the visuals looked kinda just okay to me when I saw screenshots of it years ago, if mainly because of the flatshaded characters
the textured environments do look pretty baller

when I got to play it... it still just looked okay
the mechanics are pretty interesting though, and it's kinda annoying how a lot of people seem to immediately dismiss it

>>4762698
I don't hate Nintendo. They're the hands down master of the platformer (including to a lesser extent adventure platformers) and successfully held that title through the 3D revolution but all their offerings in other genres are derivative and lean heavily on their (brilliant) branding.

>>4762760
Star Fox is pretty much just shit.

This is mostly an example of a series getting praised for continuing to have a very limited amount of gaemz in the genre to compare it to.

Go search out moar in this genre; no specifics. You'll see what I mean.

>>4764098
>gaemz
Anyway
>Star Fox is pretty much just shit.
I wouldn't call any of the SF games actually shit, but SF64 is a masterpiece. Doesn't need to be compared to anything, it's great in its own right. And it's up there along with Panzer Dragoon Zwei and Sin and Punishment for best in the genre.

>>4760947
Super Mario Brothers vs. Shenmue
hmm

>>4760947
Gee I wonder.
3D sonic suffers from everything that is wrong modern gaming: constant autopilot segments that take control away from the player, a focus on style over substance, hallway levels with zero freedom, speed that isn't earned, a low skill ceiling, etc… It's style over substance. 3D sonic doesn't have to suck (Utopia proved that), but so far it's been a shallow gotta-go-fast simulator while 2D sonic is a momentum-based platformer with pinball physics.

Mario 64 is not Classic Mario in 3D, it's a collectathon spin-off that overtook the main series similar to how Persona overtook SMT. Mario 3D World on the other hand, is classic mario in 3D. Similarly, boost and adventure are not Classic Sonic translated into 3D, they're gotta-go-fast simulators with a sonic skin. It's just something totally different. There needs to be a Mario 3D World for sonic. A 3D game that that plays like the 2D games simply with an added dimension. A game with pinball physics and momentum. A game with actual platforming instead of homing attack spam and boost.

Crash Bandicoot is another good example: what made crash special was being the only 5th gen 3D Platformer designed like a 2D platformer, and was hardcore to boot. Imagine a Sonic game that played like a mix of crash and 3D world with momentum based pinball physics.

Sonic was never about speed, he was about pinball physics. Therefore Boost and adventure are not Sonic in 3D, they're gotta-go-fast simulators with a sonic skin, similar to how Mario 64 is not Classic Mario in 3D, it's a collectathon. Mario 3D World is classic mario in 3D. There needs to be a Mario 3D World for sonic. A 3D game that that plays like the 2D games simply with an added dimension. A game with pinball physics and momentum. A game with actual platforming instead of homing attack spam and boost.

>>4764364
why are you spamming this over every thread
it's just raw autism

>>4763149
Thanks.

>>4764098
Star Fox 1 is an okay game. Has some issues not related to the rock-bottom framerate, but it's decent.
Star Fox 64 is just flat out great. I'd even say it's a better game than say, Panzer Dragoon II even, which is another really brilliant game (admittedly, Zwei has better visuals).
You don't really need many other games in the genre to compare it to, you just need to want to play it over other genres.

>>4763447
>I've never understood how Nintendo 64 was even considered mediocre.
It's got a handful of iconic games that kept it relevant, and it was seen as a good machine to play with friends, particularly with Smash Bros, GoldenEye, Mario Kart 64, and Mario Party.
really, most people's top 5 for the N64 will have a lot of overlap (probably with most if not all from this list: Banjo Kazooie, Mario 64, OOT and/or MM, Star Fox 64, MK64, GoldenEye, Smash Bros, maybe F-Zero X) and there'd probably be one or two outliers

>>4763432
I agree. It was way ahead of it's time.

>>4760960
PSO is better than any Zelda, and you can play it with your bros too.

>>4764502
I like the classic PS games, but MMOs can go fuck themselves.

>>4764548
It's about as much of a MMO as Borderlands is.

>>4764552
Full of autistic children LARPing as girls?

>>4764548
Sorry you don't have any friends, lad.

>>4764573
I play couch co-op/VS because I have IRL friends, kiddo.

>>4764576
PSO has split-screen multiplayer with the Gamecube/Xbox version.

>because I have IRL friends, kiddo.
Yeah, I doubt that.

>>4764582
>GC/Xbox
Not retro.
>I doubt that.
of course you would, you projecting loner.

>>4764583
>Not retro.
Ports of retro games are allowed. Try reading the sticky again.

>of course you would, you projecting loner.
Not projecting. Just judging by the fact that you behave like a sperg, which nobody'd wanna be friends with.

>>4760947
>magnum opus

>>4760947
>Sonic 3 & Knuckles vs. Super Mario World
Sega

Nintendo was for the dainty kid that probably grew up to be a homosexual
Sega was for the poor kid with divorced parents that thought he was tough for wearing thrift shop biker gear to school
Sony was for Normal human beings

>>4766515

I don't know. I was more of a Sega kid, then a Sony supporter during my teenage years. I still turned out to be a homosexual.

I stopped giving a shit about Nintendo when I realized just how many games in my region got fucked over by NoA's censorship policies. Sega had some issues with that as well, especially with the ESRB being formed in the height of the fourth generation. Still, it wasn't as arbitrary as what Nintendo did by removing all references to death, sexual suggestion and religious imagery. Although I'm still pissed at Sega for removing the gay mentor dude from the English version of PSII.

>>4760947
>Super Scaler system arcade series vs. Famicom/NES
head says Nintendo, heart says Sega ... impossible to choose; it’s a draw

>>4766515
A lot of Nintendo kids jumped ship to Sony when Square did.

>yfw Nintendo's magnum opus was only possible thanks to superior SEGA

>>4764431
That's beyond me honestly, i loved Star Fox, but none of the other games you listed (and I do understand they are all universally accepted as good games) were that interesting to me.
I can think of a lot better games on the dreamcast than anything on the 64.
So I think it's really just fair to compare the older consoles.

>>4760960
As much as I love Ocarina of Time, and respect it for all the ground it broke, it isn't the best classic Zelda game.

>>4766564
Wind Waker was trash. Truly the beginning of the end for Zelda.

>>4766570
Thanks for your opinion.

>>4766573
Why do you prefer saturday morning cartoon aesthetics and dumbed-down dungeon designs? Do you have the mental faculties of an 8-year-old with downs?

>>4766540
I prefer F-Zero X, but yeah Sega making an F-Zero game was a dream.

>>4766598
>morning cartoon
Not retro, but Wind Waker is actually based on a cult classic japanese animated feature film from the 60s. Compating it to American saturday morning cartoons doesn't really make it justice. From the animation to the story-telling, it's leagues beyond that.

>>4766614
X is only better in terms of soundtrack and extra features. GX fixed a lot of the flaws with X's buggy game design and has visuals that don't rape your eyesight.

>>4766649
>buggy game design
Explain?
>visuals that don'ty rape your eyesight
Careful guys, we've got a kid who gets offended by low poly greatness.

>>4766693
>Explain?
Biggest one is you don't slow down when ramming walls. Another is the infinite float glitch that lets you bypass most of a track. Go watch some speedruns.

>Careful guys, we've got a kid who gets offended by low poly greatness.
There's nice low-poly graphics and then there's just looking like garbage. Sadly, F-Zero X is the latter. At least it's running at a solid 60 FPS, though.

>>4766715
>Biggest one is you don't slow down when ramming walls
Huh, never noticed, gotta crash myself against walls and see what happens next time.
>Another is the infinite float glitch that lets you bypass most of a track. Go watch some speedruns.
So because there's an exploit speedrunners use that means the game has buggy game design? It's not easy to do that, you have to practice a lot to make use of that glitch.
>like garbage
Subjective, I like the colorful and simple look of F-Zero X. GX looks more barren in terms of colors, despite being more detailed and having higher polycount.

>>4766540
you know the gamecube was the dark ages when the only fun nintendo game was actually made by sega

>>4766739
post /vr/ times were the start of dark times in general.
anyway, I actually liked the gamecube fire emblem.

>>4766742
It was alright until around 2004, then shit hit the fan starting with seventh gen. I can't think of 10 great games made within the current economic recession (2008~2018).

>>4760947

>>4762823
>Mario and Zelda games were not huge risks.
Opinion disregarded. They were both huge risks when they were ported over to the 3D medium, which was something new and novel for their time and both of their 3D debuts remain some of the greatest games of all time. SEGA’s first attempts at translating their major IPs (Sonic and...uh...) into such a space were underwhelming at best and terrible at worst.

Also, the average person doesn’t give a shit about Shenmue. So much of its popularity fame after the fact.

>>4761460
like?

>>4766801
False.Both Zelda and Mario were safe bets because they were well known Nintendo franchises. Neither of them were huge risks. Shenmue on the other had was a huge risk because it was a new IP and the fact that it's getting a 3rd sequel proves that people do give a shit about Shenmue. Sonic didn't have a 3D title until Dreamcast and that one was very well received and successful. Show's how little you know. You just cherry pick without doing actual research in your argument.

Lol, What even is supposed to be Sega's magnum opus? Sonic 1? Sonic adventure 2? Yeah, you don't even have to bring Oot to beat those but it's not fair since sega hasn't made anything big since the DC

>>4766715
GX has its own share of crazy shit, although it's definitely not as bad about it as X.

as for visuals, I can't and won't say X looks good
but I also won't say that it's terribly bad
there's the course, there's the racers, and there's a vague bit of scenery, and that's all you need

>>4760947
What would Sega's magnum opus even be? Sonic 3?

>>4766801
>SEGA’s first attempts at translating their major IPs (Sonic and...uh...) into such a space were underwhelming at best and terrible at worst.
That's not how Sega works. Every new cycle they release unique IPs to experiment with.

By the way, Jet Grind Radio > Super Mario 64 and Shenmue > Ocarina of Time.

>>4766564
unpopular opinion because WRONG

>>4761695
>tfw bought a replacement VRU last year for this game

>>4766818
>yfw your magnum opus bankrupted the company

>>4760947
Most of Sega's magnum opus were actually arcade games, like Daytona USA which doesn't really have any real to compare with Nintendo's games since one was based on the idea of making you spit out money and the other was a home console.

As a huge Shinobifag, I'll say Revenge of Shinobi and Super Shinobi
2/Shinobi 3 flat out wins me out over any other Nintendo game.

But really, most games by Sega in general with a couple exceptions always usually are shorter.

On the top of my head, the only series I can think of that last long enough is the Phantasy Star series.

Who gives a shit anyway?

>>4768948
>your magnum opus bankrupted the company
Which is exactly why a game like Shenmue is a risk, while a game like Zelda or Mario are not.

>>4764364
Unfortunately Mario 3D World is shit compared to Mario 64.

>>4764576
I was in high school when PSO was released and played it online with my IRL friends. Even coming off of Diablo 1 & 2, PSO was a fucking revelation. Nothing else at the time could compare. A lot of revisionists don't give Sega enough credit for constantly pushing technological boundaries.

>>4766649
You're joking? The characters look awful in GX compared to the comic book illustrations in X.

>>4766801
Are you just unaware that Sega pioneered 3d gameplay and graphics with their "Virtua" series or something?

>>4771675
And how often do you have to look at the character designs?

Meanwhile X's backgrounds are trash and and the courses and craft models look flat/dull.

>>4771725
Every time you use the menu, select a racer, and beat a cup. So quite often.

The backgrounds and tracks look just fine. Performance is more important than detail. It isn't like you actually have time to look at the backgrounds in GX.

>Every time you use the menu, select a racer, and beat a cup. So quite often.
So not that much, compared to when you're actually playing the game. Why are you whining about character designs again?

>>4760947

Nintendos magnum opus is Mario Kart Arcade GP 2 by NAMCO. SEGA on the other hand had a million truly outstanding games. Unfair comparison really.

>>4766570

Zelda was always trash.

Nintendo games are incredibly derivative, there is nothing that Nintendo has ever made that comes even close to Shenmue, let alone a multilayered Gesamtkunstwerk like Panzer Dragoon. Sega made thematic games, that is why Treasure which is arguably the greatest video game making company ever collaborated with Sega to make Radiant Silvergun and Ikaruga, two games that transcend time and space. Then you have games like Outrun, vaporwave before vaporwave existed, it's a game about driving, not racing, and there is nothing like its aesthetic, the bright blue sky, the palm trees, like a dream version of Miami interpreted by a Japanese guy.

Nintendo has a lot of classic shit like donkey kong and link to the past that age well and play like solid home titles. Almost all of SEGAs game play like classic arcade titles, even their 3d games. You tell me which company's games are better as a result.

>>4772767
>Comix Zone
This game has zero relevance. And wonky hitboxes, like most western games.

Shenmue isn't that good as a game, but it's a nice experience. Never played Valkyria Chronicles. Everything else is pretty nice, but some are also pretty dead like Streets of Rage.
Sega has deader IPs than Nintendo.

>>4772774
>Almost all of SEGAs game play like classic arcade titles
And that's a good thing you fucking retard.

>>4772776
>wonky hitboxes
What do you mean by this? Well Comix Zone had a very cool grunge soundtrack and it's probably one of the few games that takes place entirely inside a comic book and the art resembles that of Americans comics. That alone is enough reason for me to include it in among the greats,

>Sega has deader IPs
Yeah because Sega fired or got rid of basically all the talented people who made masterpieces like Panzer Dragoon. Yakuza is still a damn good game though.

>>4766906
>What is Sega's magnum opus
Shenmue, Panzer Dragoon Saga or Sonic 3 and knuckles are the three best games Sega has ever made.

>>4772776
>Shenmue isn't that good as a game
You obviously never played all the way through. It's the game I play most out of all my Dreamcast games.

>>4772795
>Saga
Zwei is better.

>>4760947
>Sega's Magnum Opus
Shining the Holy Ark GOAT

>>4760960
Best Nintendo game ever.
Anyone who says else, is either edgy or feels based about his opinion.
If you say overrated, then atleast take your time to explain which game is Nintendo's Magnum Opus if not Zelda.


>Sega has many Magnum Opus

No, only Sonic 2.

>>4773561
>Sonic 2
>2
lmao

I was a kid at the time of the Sega and Nintendo rivalry, so I don't really have a good context for that time period.

What was Sega known for outside of Sonic? What were Sega's heavy hitters? I'd like to start getting into retro Sega games, but all the most interesting things seem to be third party games.

>>4773626
Arcade games. Have a look if you're genuinely interested.
http://www.system16.com/museum.php?id=1
http://www.racketboy.com/retro/best-games-that-defined-sega-genesis-megadrive
http://www.racketboy.com/retro/the-best-sega-genesis-games-hidden-gem
http://www.racketboy.com/retro/sega-genesis-megadrive-101-a-beginners-guide
http://www.racketboy.com/retro/games-that-defined-sega-saturn
http://www.racketboy.com/retro/best-undiscovered-sega-saturn-games

>>4773626
If you're looking to get into arcades your main interests should be: super scaler, system 16, system 18, system 32, model, model 2, model 3 and Naomi.

>>4773626
House Of The Dead, Virtua Fighter, Virtual On, Yakuza.

>>4773626
The Super Scaler system arcade machines (Outrun, Space Harrier, Hang On, Galaxy Force, Afterburner, etc.) are Sega’s defining legacy.
The “console wars” didn’t actually happen beyond marketing hype.

>>4761425
stfu nintendcuck

>>4761658
a masterpiece it means you dumb amerifatt

>>4773626
You might need to check some Godtier shmups only released on Sega Systems

>Thunder Force 4
>M.U.S.H.A.
>Gunstar Heroes
>Alien Soldier
>Radiant Silvergun

>>4774512
Also Galaxy Force II which has one of the best jazz fusion soundtracks in gaming

https://youtu.be/Heoxt4us3uQ

>>4774512
Alien Soldier's a run 'n gun, not shump.

>>4771683
Pretty much. The Playstation would be a 2D focused machine. If one game changed their mind was Virtua Fighter.
https://www.wired.com/2012/09/how-virtua-fighter-saved-playstations-bacon/

>>4761045
>several magnum opuses

you don't understand what that phrase means, do you?

>>4761425
they were a fantastic arcade developer