/vr/ - Retro Games

>>4680307
From what I read in that it this doesn't remove any latency that would be related to the operating system or controller you're using.

Input lag and glitches are a meme. They exist, but the honest truth is that people just enjoy collecting things, and like being able to hold and display them. I don't see why there even needs to be more of a justification than that, it's no different than collecting cards or posters or anything else.

>>4680308
No, but it removes the original input lag of (simple) consoles, which in turn can make it faster than original hardware if you use and xbox controller with a low-latency monitor on a fast machine.

So... does this mean I can go get retropie and it not lag now? Or do I need to wait until they update it?

This is for SNES only you genius.

>The Libretro forum post linked above provided patches to RetroArch that can effectively “remove” this baked-in latency by running multiple instances of a core simultaneously, and quickly emulating multiple frames at a time if input changes.

>Be aware that this method is highly resource intensive. The higher the number of frames you are going to run ahead of emulation, the higher demands it places on your CPU. For instance, Snes9x on a Core i7 7700k CPU would normally run at 1500fps with Super Mario World. With runahead set to 2 frames, we get 440fps. With runahead set to 4 frames, it will be lowered even further to 250fps. So fast cores are key for making this latency reduction approach feasible.

It is an interesting hack but only feasable with fast computers and/or fast emulators.

>>4680323
>Right now, we are going to be enabling this feature for the Windows, Linux, macOS, and Android versions. Console ports that depend on static linking won’t be able to take advantage of this feature.

>>4680336
>Android versions
Prepare for blown up phones lawl.

>>4680307
The true way to play video games is through flashcarts on official hardware.

>>4680336
>1550fps without runahead
Why would you ever want to run a game at 1500fps?!?!? And Core i7s are relatively cheap now. Cheaper than muh buttcoining GPUs. Except you won't even need an i7 to get a decent framerate.

>>4680308
OS latency? You read that somewhere and keep repeating it without really thinking about what you just said?

Same for controller. Windows has near instant controller input for X1 and mouse and keyboard. If it wasn't the case then no one would use it for pro level tournaments.

>>4680389
At regular USB polling speeds there is a 16ms delay worst case scenario, which is significant. "OS delay" is a meme and can be mitigated by simply using Linux in KVM mode.

>>4680381

That depends on wether runahead can make use of more than one core. You can get an Intel dual core cpu with 3.9 Ghz under 100 bucks and those can be overclocked to well over 4 Ghz. This might be both cheaper and better suited than an i7.

>>4680389
>>4680405
Note: PS2 mouse/keyboard would theoretically be faster than USB but the difference is so insignificant that there is not a single professional CS:GO player out there right now who uses PS2.

>>4680407
>professional CS:GO player

I placed 4th on EVO playing with infrared equipment.

>>4680412
>infrared equipment
What exactly do you mean by this?

>>4680307
>Does this make collectors of ancient hardware and overpriced cartridges butthurt?

not at all. we have real hardware, you have emulators or expensive imitations built by the world's finest collection of LAMERS. I sleep well at night next to my stash of original hardware.

it's also like you didn't even bother to read your own link:

>Be aware that this method is highly resource intensive. The higher the number of frames you are going to run ahead of emulation, the higher demands it places on your CPU. For instance, Snes9x on a Core i7 7700k CPU would normally run at 1500fps with Super Mario World. With runahead set to 2 frames, we get 440fps. With runahead set to 4 frames, it will be lowered even further to 250fps. So fast cores are key for making this latency reduction approach feasible.

wow. that's awesome. you need all of this horsepower just to emulate a processor and various chips made 25+ years ago.
how stupid can you be, OP?

>>4680307
Sorry but frameskipping is cheating. Seems like an ugly hack to me and not something I would gouge about or be proud about. But off course retroarch devs will promote this as if it was an incredible achievement and plebs will fall for the hype and claim they finally reached 'perfection' lol

>>4680450
>frameskipping
this is not frameskipping you brainlet
it literally renders all possible frames ahead to display them faster than the console could

>>4680450
No frames are skipped, really. It just renders the next frame for every possible input (which is why this won't work with too many buttons, let alone analog controls) and then chooses to display the correct one.

>>4680307
>anything with a framebuffer
>having less latency than a framebuffer-less console

Literal retardation. And it's also literally impossible for a controller signal going through a couple dozen encoding steps and an OS before being handed off to the emulator is going to have "less latency" than a console where it's a plain high/low signal memory mapped directly to a register, potentially even triggering an interrupt depending on how the developers implemented input in a given game.

>>4680462
At 1000hz polling, the delay is about 1ms or 1/16th of a frame at 60hz. Meaning that the difference becomes irrelevant.

>>4680462
>>4680462
https://forums.libretro.com/t/an-input-lag-investigation/4407/424
https://forums.libretro.com/t/an-input-lag-investigation/4407/534
I recommend reading this thread because next frame response is certainly possible with the right setup and you should be careful when weighing different factors of lag against each other. Some SNES games like Yoshi's Island have up to 3 frames of hardcoded input delay, which can be avoided with this new technique. Even if the controller is slower and there's more overhead than on original hardware, simply because signal decoding time is so fast with current generation hardware.

Brainlet here, I really don't get how this works.
How does it test for a frame rendered on time by just input alone?

How does it know which of the two frames is correct?

>>4680381
You don't, he was just explaining the math of how it impacts performance.

>>4680381
That's 1550fps the computer CAN run without a frame limiter on, genius.
Knowing that number is useful. It decreases the higher the settings for frames ahead emulation are and at some point becomes less than 60fps, at which point you worry about the game playing at full speed, not accuracy.

GBA games were like 500fps unthrottled on my old toaster, and NES reached 3500fps.

I'm a original hardware/CRT guy but regurdless I love to see advancements like this. Hoping in the future I can get a super fast OLED or whatever the hot new tech is, a retro pie like device, and have a good experience emulating older games.

>>4680307
Sorry but frameskipping is cheating. Seems like an ugly hack to me and not something I would gouge about or be proud about. But off course retroarch devs will promote this as if it was an incredible achievement and plebs will fall for the hype and claim they finally reached 'perfection' lol

>>4680553
>>4680450

>>4680450
>>4680553
>hardwareautist are bots

>>4680496
The point is not to 'know which frame is correct' (technically both are) but to rollback one frame when player input is modified then emulate two frames at once knowing the effect of input change will only be visible after the 2nd frame because of game engine latency.

Basically, state is saved before frame 1 is started, frame 1 is emulated and displayed then when frame 2 is started, state before frame 1 is loaded, frame 1 and frame 2 are both emulated succesively with the new input state but only frame 2 is displayed. Technically, frame 1 is emulated twice, one time to display the frame before the input change and a second time to skip the game latency frame.

>>4680307
>Retroarch has now less input lag than original hardware
that's not what developers intended.

>>4680638
Screw developers. They've been holding us back for years.

>>4680435
>i'm poor
Not sure why you felt the need to type out an entire novel just to say this.

>>4680307
>Retroarch is now even more inaccurate than ever before
>Does this make adults kek
Yes. It makes us kek our asses off

>>4680749
>optional setting
>makes it inaccurate
I see

>>4680758
Inaccurate with it enabled, inaccurate with it disabled.

Hearty keks.

>>4680638

The developers sometimes "Intend" for modern games to run at a low frame rate for a "Cinematic" quality, doesn't mean they're not sometimes full of shit.

>>4680824
>>4680824
And retroarch devs intend to make games run at 60fps when they're actually locked at a lower FPS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBwKydycZZU
Fuck those guys, right?

>>4680828

Yeah, that's a game dev issue; Tying aspects of the engine to framerate always leads to problems like this, even today in immediately noticeable ways with modern games. It's just a bad idea all around for games since it prevents them from being futureproofed.

For example: Metal Gear Solid V's physics engine flips out when run above 60fps. Throwable objects would freeze mid air.

>>4680412
what game

>runahead works by making a frame for each possible input, then delivering it when the user makes a move
>7th gen i7 is already down to 250fps using only 4 frames(half the D-pad covered, still have diagonals, all buttons, as well as multiple buttons at the same time to account for, doesn't even count HELD presses)
With the money you spend on this hardware, you could already have all the old consoles plus a few flashcarts. This would only be cost effective if you were a /v/irgin who's interested in modern games.
>$340 for CPU alone
>vs
>$40 for SNES, $8 for controller, $15 for power brick, $5-10 for A/V cables, $100 for flash cart, $20 for cheap CRT
>spending twice as much just to emulate
Boy, you sure showed us OP. Go back to your modern shit.

Why are people so desperate to use emulators? Just don't be poor. Get every console and get flashcarts

Good for PC users with a bit of power and a specific set-up, sure, retropie and similar devices will always be underpowered pieces of shit though.

>>4680898
Why is it hard to understand that some people don't want 10 consoles in their house? As a kid I dreamed of having one system that can play everything, and a good PC is as close as it gets.
The future is now and I choose to enjoy it.

>>4680821
It's perfectly "accurate" with it disabled.

>>4680898
Why are people so desperate to use flashcarts? Just don't be poor. Get every console and every game

>>4681293
Because unlike consoles, games take up a lot of space and are expensive despite not being rare especially if they're a first party Nintendo game.

You get the best of both words, you get every game on 1 cart while playing on original hardware.

>>4681339
But original hardware isn't the best anymore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJzK9nq3O34

>>4680307
>Poorfag hating on console collectors
>Is butt-hurt that he can't afford original hardware or games
I'm a collector, but I also play emulation on PC & PSP. My consoles & games are all nicely displayed on my shelves while I play these games on PC. Thus keeping my games & consoles safe. There are some things emulation fails at, so I'm happy I can still play certain games on my CRT TV like House Of The Dead. Anyone complaining about prices are clearly poor.

>>4680868
>spending twice as much just to emulate
No person in their right mind would spend that money just to emulate SNES games you dumb negroid, stop making up strawmen. I already have a CPU that strong because I'm not a poorfag.

>>4681343

But dude, that's totally inaccurate. Not as developers intended.

>>4681483
I'm seriously glad that audiophiles, faggots that they are, at least generally no longer strive for perfect "accuracy" and "completely neutral sound". That is just pathetic.

>>4680898
One good reason is if you have put a lot of trouble into a home cinema set-up. Imagine a person with a 50" 4k TV and surround sound system set up in their living room or basement with a nice comfy couch in front of it. This is where they play their video games.

If they want to use original hardware they have a couple of choices

1. make due with original hardware default video quality
2. mod their systems

Original video output on some systems is limited to composite video. Not great on a 4k TV. Especially if you are not into slumming it with color fringing, dot crawl, and all those other artifacts.

Modding the system steps into "not original" territory by itself, and has mixed results with some systems And to get a good image on the screen you need to use a good (and expensive) upscaler.

An emulation PC with retroarch side-steps all of this. And with 4k resolution, black frame insertion, shaders, and now with low lag the experience should compare extremely favorably to an elite real hardware setup (rgb-modded system on pro-spec CRT).

In the end you're just looking to have a really good playing experience, right? If you do it right an emulator can provide that.

>>4680307
Still no accurate NES palette

>>4680868
>$100 for flashcart

psh

>$200 + or - for flashcart for each system if not sold out
>$50 to $200 for each system
>$75 for RGB mod each system that doesnt already have the capabilities
>RGB SCART switch $150
>RGB SCART cables for each system $25
>$50 to $1500 for a PVM or $235 for OSSC
>$25-$200 or more for games per game

fuck right off, shit comparison

Isn't Retroarch just a GUI for more obtuse emulators?

>>4681636
>obtuse
What do you mean by that? You're completely right that it's just a GUI (or so I thought), but for obtuse emulators? it's for any emulator with a libretro core

>>4681650
I mean emulators that are more difficult to use without a friendly GUI, like mednafen.

>>4681553
your numbers are retarded

>>4681665
people use it for even simple emulators like bsnes
i think it's for convenience, or a friendly UI for controllers.

>>4681636
No, it's quite a bit more than that. I'm not up enough on the tech side but it can add features to emulators that the stand-alone versions don't have.

>>4681553
>>$50 to $200 for each system
If you buy from resellers. Just find auctions or garage sales, there's no reason anyone should spend more than 50 dollars on most mainstream consoles.

>>4680323
>retropie
lolno. You need decent hardware for this kinda stuff.
>>4680331
It's for all cores you dingus.
>>4681539
There are about 100 to choose from.

>>4681694
>There are about 100 to choose from.
and none of them are good enough

>>4681712
Surely one of these will be good enough for you http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

>>4681712
Are you talking about how the blue colors will always get clipped because those colors are outside the range of sRGB?

There is a Windows cycle-accurate SNES emulator out there so fuck literally everything else.

>>4681343
You do realize that overclock mod is being done on original hardware, right?

>>4681489
>wanting inaccurate sound
Degenerate pleb. Now that's pathetic

>>4681539
there is but you insist on wanting colors from a biased decoder (that is reproducible as well)

>>4681512
You're absolutely right, but there's one thing you're forgetting.
This setup will have an undetermined amount of input lag. Now, this isn't a problem for most people, but if you're someone who plays fighting games at a decent level or difficult platformers, that can be really detrimental
But I do agree that for most people, this is probably the way to go.

>>4680307
this doesnt magically fix the input lag over usb or on your monitor. you guys arent actually this retarded right?

>>4680758
>makes it inaccurate
It's inarticulate to begin with my readingcomprehensionally challenged child.

>All these grown ass men trying to justify the money they've literally thrown away for nothing calling other people poor.

Topkek.

>>4681960
The net reduction in overall latency could make it lower if the real hardware took more than 1 frame to update the game with your inputs. It won't do anything for stuff that chased the beam and had no lag to begin with, like Atari 2600.

>>4681960
m8, that obviously changes the lag on the emulator, but who says the monitor has to have lag? you can connect your PC to a CRT monitor o CRT TV or PVM or whatever you want, without any lag at all. The same goes for a raspberry pi.

CRTs aren't exclusive to original hardware

>>4681956
>This setup will have an undetermined amount of input lag.
I don't see any reason why it would "undetermined". Lag is an easily measured element.

>>4681763
None of them are good enough.
>targeted to look like a PVM
wew lad

>>4681956
Using original hardware would have more lag than an emulator putting out the same resolution as the TV.

>>4681974
I mean, many people just have their old systems and games. No need to justify anything if you had a great childhood.
Emulatorfags sure are insecure. Chill, nobody cares about how you enjoy games. Just play instead of shitpost.

Wow all of these cool rich guys posting on 4chin, so impressive!

>>4682029
Not unless your monitor is lag-free, which any large TV is far from being. You're talking 3+ frames of lag here, which is very noticeable

>>4680314
why would you collect posters and trading cards when you can just emulate them with google image search? that way you dont need any frames, protectors, or thumbtacks

>>4682095
There is nothing wrong with emulation. I collect consoles & games. I still emulate so I can keep my games & systems in good condition. Poorfags are the insecure ones, hence why they bitch & moan about us collectors.

>>4682104
>rich
You could spend $2,000 on your set-up and you'd still be a poorfag in the grand scope of hobbies.

>>4682224
Anyone being able to afford to spend $2000 grand on a gaming set up, clearly isn't poor.

>own all original systems from nes up to ps2
>forced to repurchase ntsc versions because palfag
JUST

>>4680307
This is like using built in automatic save states every frame. It's practically built-in tool assisted cheating. Not even removing input/draw buffers is this stupid.

>>4682312
>get less lag than real hardware
>it's cheating!

The absolute state of hardwarefags

>>4682312
It's like saying that making the polygons in the PS1 not warp is wrong because it makes everything too visible and easy.

>there are people on a retro gaming board who mostly emulate
Posers.

>>4682537
Retro by defenition is old things in current times. It perfectly fits.

>>4681974
>all these young ass children trying to justify that they don't have money
FTFYK

>>4681908
I want nice sound that's fun to listen to. Which is why I own the HD800 and not some autistic ultra-neutral high-accuracy monitor headphones (Actually I do but that's beside the point).

>>4682224
wrong.
source: my pc and my bank balance

>>4682254
Wrong!
Source: my pc vs. my bank balance

>>4681553
>RGB SCART switch $150
whut

Emulation is the greatest.

>>4681976
>The same goes for a raspberry pi.
Wrong. Those things have input lag that can't be removed.

>>4684887
Wrong. You're repeating a meme started by butthurt collectorfags

>>4681763
t. firebrandx

>>4684887
The lag only happens when something newer tries to upconvert. The new device in upconverting the signal introduces lag. If you have original hardware hooked up to a CRT you'll have no lag. And I seriously doubt Retroarch can do what OP said.

>>4684932
Only a fool would take anything the libretro team says at face value.

>>4680320
>with a low-latency monitor
Unless it's a CRT I'm just gonna say 'no.'.

this is really cool, but it has a negative impact on audio latency

>>4684906
irony: the post

>>4680314
Nope. Some tricks and maneuvers are impossible with any lag.

>>4680314
/thread

>>4681976
>you can connect your PC to a CRT monitor o CRT TV or PVM or whatever you want, without any lag at all.
With modern hardware? You're surely going to need some kind of adapter which is going to add lag. I feel like at that point just using a modern in out with a good monitor would be best.

>>4685075
it doesn't add lag
the rpi has a composite out that can do 240p. there's also add-on boards to get RGB on scart, YPbPr, etc. None of that adds lag since it's analog conversion.
Same for PC. There's software to get 15kHz out on the analog pins of the DVI connector of current graphic cards. You can do analog conversion afterwards without any lag.

>>4680405
You can increase pooling speeds if you want, but the USB input lag is not noticeable.

>>4680553
>frameskipping

>>4684932
>The lag only happens when something newer tries to upconvert.
Not with those raspberry pi things. Input lag is baked in with them, you can't get rid of it. If you use a converter and/or wireless controller it will ad even more lag on top.
>And I seriously doubt Retroarch can do what OP said.
It's legit, you can download it and try it out yourself.

>>4685756
Wrong.
Input lag is not "baked" into them and you can test this for yourself.
I can't stand uninformed idiots just spouting this nonsense.

>>4685775
Every memeberry memeulation setup has it "baked" in my baked friendo

Input lag is only one of the issues with emulation.
Anyway, if you're playing on an HD TV, there's still bound to be lag.

>>4680307

These cock smooches straight up copied xross gui from sony? Fucking pathetic.

>muh 1µs delay

>>4680593
So is it kinda like ggpo? ggpo netcode also guesses the input and if that input is right it moves on but if it guessed wrong it will rollback

>>4686834
it doesn't guess, it tries all possible inputs and emulates each of them in parallel X frames before you do the actual input

for example Super Mario World has 2 frames of lag in the game's code itself. So in a real SNES connected to a CRT (0 lag) if you press A to jump, mario will jump 2 frames later.

in retroarch you set up runahead to 2 frames. you press A to jump and mario will jump at the same frame you pressed A at.

it does this because the current frame was emulated already 2 frames ago and it was emulated as if you pressed A, and as if you didn't (both cases were emulated in parallel) and when retroarch sees that you pressed A it uses that emulated frame instantly

>>4686425
Only if it's an analogue to digital conversion, which the HD TV does and in so doing that upscaling/upgrading it introduces lag.

Input lag was always a meme unless you are using very inaccurate emulators.

>>4685075
Just might need one of these babies and you're all set. They're more common than you think, the old VGA connector is still used in some modern flat TVs as their "PC input" and DVI is still an option on modern GPUs for video output. If you're using an old monitor it may even have a DVI port to begin with, negating the need for an adapter.

>>4681489
>>4682879
You're retarded. You don't need "fun" equipment. You need an equalizer to color music how you like.

Any mixer worth a shit masters with the most accurate equipment they can afford. By having accurate equipment at home, you can at least reproduce something close to the original signal and start from the qualities they thought were best for the material, instead of the random inadequacies of your equipment.

>>4687460
Gtx 980 was the last video card with dvi-a support. Amd dropped it years before NVidia did.

You can't just plug that shit into a video card, recent cards indeed don't have dacs anymore

>>4687220
>this is what underage actually believe
so sad

>>4687460
>DIV
>there's only one kind
see above

>>4680314
>I buy games but don't actually play them, the post

>>4680314
This anon is right, i don't collect games for every console and emulate some but if i own it i try to collect.

>>4681553
>You need RGB scart to enjoy retro vidya
A good number of vidya looks okay on a CRT through composite, most of the developers for retro vidya made them so they could be enjoyed on as shitty a signal as RF. I played Super Metroid on RF as a kid and I didn't mind, also
>Needing SCART switch
Are you too fucking lazy to switch out one damn plug?

>>4682274
Look at him.
Look at him and laugh.

should I put retroarch on my PS3 or on my really awful laptop? I know PS3s are incredibly hard to Homebrew

>>4688167
Not as much as it used to be at least.

Anyone gonna post the conpiled wii u shaders?

>>4687518
>using AMD GPUs in a high end gaming PC
What a coincidence, the 980 is what I'm currently using and considering that's a fairly recent GPU I figured most new GPUs still had them. I also had DVI ports on my 560 and 660. I don't pay much attention to what AMD puts out because IMO they haven't had an edge over Intel/nVidia since the Athlon days.

>>4687959
I'm sorry for skipping from VGA to HDMI, but on the rare occasions I've had to use a DVI port I've never found any sort of incompatibility between wires so I just assumed it was simply a single type of port.

>>4680307
yeah but when am i gonna be able to play n64 games without everything glitching out

>>4688497
In 1996 when the console is released

>>4681960
You can literally play games with 2000MHz polling rate. You're insane if you think that affects anything.
>>4686425
>not using a 480hz monitor

>>4688627
>2000hz
woopz

>>4684932
>>4681976
>>4684906
I own a Pi. Input lag is an incredible disadvantage if you care about that thing. Check the forums and the retropie subreddit.

I tried it out with the higan core and it was too much for my 6400.
Can newer, faster, overclocked CPU handle that or are we restricted to Snes9x.
Most other systems I tried worked fine with 2 or 3 frames. Obviously except for things like Beetle Saturn.

>>4689084

Those Pi devices are and always will be shit for emulation.

>>4689084
>>4689131

Honestly the Pi is a complete waste of time now, it's underpowered and completely unoptimized for gaming. It's not even useful as a media player anymore with so many better and easier alternatives on the market. Still trying to make something out of it is a futile errand.

>>4689131
I heard they're getting good for MAME, NES, SEGA Genesis and the like? No? What about Raspberry pi version B?

>>4689228

They're all shit because of input lag and underpowered CPU. Get a G4560 CPU for the same amount a Pi and accessories costs. It runs games infinitely better. Perfect emulation processor.

>>4689240
That's a CPU...I'm looking for a setup like Raspberry pi because of the small size as it has so many possibilities. I hear what you're saying, though.

Please be specific, what package deal alternative to Raspberry pi? I want something that is like Pi, you know? Self-contained and small. I want to make tiny game cabinets that can play most older games.

>>4689261
Don't be discouraged about the Pi. If you're looking for something on the shelf to play old games casually, its good. But if you're into fighting games you might be turned off by the lag

>>4689270
How bad is the lag? I've experience shitty-bad, do-able-bad, can overcome it-bad-lag, so in your opinion, which one? Will it be noticeable on say, Street Fighter II? How about Super Mario Bros.?

>>4689261
There are countless options for small form factor x86 systems.
Smallest are Compute Stick and clones either with Atom or coreM CPU.
Then you have NUC sized stuff which gives you some room for customization.
Beyond that there are Mini-ITX mainboards and cases and Micro ATX that gives you more of the full sized parts and advantages.

>>4689283

It is very bad. I couldn't even properly play Super Mario World on it and after going back to Retroarch with Frame Delay and such it felt like I could fly through that entire game. And I don't mean the feather-cape kind of flying. That was with Recalbox as OS, don't know about Retropie or Lakka.

>>4689285
Oh ok, so basically building a mini PC, that doesn't sound too bad when seen that way. Compute Stick Thank you for opening up my mind to another option, dude.

>>4689285

I would highly recommend going for Intel G-series or i3 processors. You can get close to 4Ghz under 100 bucks and they have the integrated HD 630 graphics chip which is fast enough to play a lot of newer indie games and render shaders in Retroarch.

>>4688584
>1996 was 32 years ago

>>4680307
Enjoy the input lag from your modern display instead of a crt.

>>4689290
>>4689270
>>4689240
>>4689191
>>4689131
>>4689084

stop exagerating about the lag. if you use a rapsberry pi 3 or 3B+ and configure it correctly it doesn't have any more lag than a PC

you faggots are repeating shit you read in here or you only tried the first raspberry pi years ago and never bothered to try the newer versions with current software

>>4689423

I had a Pi 3b and sold it shortly after buying it because games were unplayable due to the input lag. It was absolutely horrendous. Stop luring people into buying this garbage. Every sane person should know that the Pi is way too cheap to be a capable emulation device. If you want a good emulation system you have to spend at least 250 bucks on a dual core or i3 pc with integrated graphics plus a low lag monitor which will cost just as much. Which is still cheaper than 3 original consoles with flashcarts and a crt.

>>4689447
stop lying

there's no reason for a rpi to have more lag than a PC

post proof or shut up

>>4689548
Pi uses an ARM processor which is RISC. PCs on the other hand use CISC x86 processors.
The extra instructions reduce lag.

>>4689556
your not even memeing hard enuff
i giv u a 0/5

>>4689548
>>4689559

Why don't you just stop bullshitting people? Do you have market shares in raspberry pi or why are you shilling so hard? Or are you just one of those millenials who is content with a crappy nes emulator on Android and thinks he is a retro gamer?

On one hand people are lamenting input lag and inaccuracy when emulating games and on the other hand they expect to get an emulation machine for 35 bucks. That's retarded. You are retarded.

>>4689228
>MAME
Not a chance in hell.
It runs some of those other systems fullspeed.... with a bunch of input lag.
>>4689270
>But if you're into fighting games you might be turned off by the lag
Yeah fighting games, shooters, platformers, all action games, every genre except turn based JRPG's where the enemies do not attack you while you decide what to do.
>>4689423
>it doesn't have any more lag than a PC
Demonstrably false. Stop lying.
>>4689548
>there's no reason for a rpi to have more lag than a PC
Yes there is, read the bloody dozens of forums where people have tested and explained why it happens and posted comparison charts using a multitude of testing methodologies.

>>4689578
>can't get emulation machine for 35 bucks

What are talking about? A NOAC costs how much? How powerful does a Raspberry Pi have to be to emulate arcade games from the late 70's to early 90's? I have a Windows 98 machine with a 16 bit graphics card and 128MB of RAM and it can emulate SEGA CD games like Mortal Kombat at full speed.

>>4689586
>no MAME

Not even simple games pre-1993?

>>4689589

If you want accurate emulation and low input lag you need modern emulators and more than 3 Ghz. Emulators will get more accurate in the coming years, more methods to reduce lag like runahead will pop up and system requirements will get higher. Deal with it or buy dying hardware and cartridges for hundreds of dollars. Retro gaming is never cheap. It doesn't matter wether you get original hardware and flashcarts or a decent emulation rig. You will have to drop a couple of hundred bucks.

>>4689608
Used Wiis and WiiU's cost how much? Yeah, I can emulate almost anything for cheap, but not if I want it to be extremely small it would seem.

>>4680898
>Why are people so desperate to use emulators?
Cause women are life/hobby destroying cunts.

>>4689615

I think it's more that most people have a halfway decent pc anyway and can just play games for free. Just the convenience of it.

>>4689613
the rpi is better at emulation than the wii

>>4689646

The rpi is completely unsuitable for emulation, though.

>>4689646
So the other guy was utterly full of shit. Got it.

>>4689649
How?

>>4689608
emulation is for convenience and playing shit for free. if you're gonna go the hyper autism accurate as possible emulation route then just drop some money on real hardware.

>>4680314
I have an S8+, for which I purchased one of those bluetooth controllers that wraps around a phone, so I could play vertical shmups in the right aspect ratio.

The input lag is so bad that I can't 1CC anything that I can bang out with no problem on a PC.

>>4689316

>>4689697
It's also for preservation for when real hardware no longer exists.

>Have RPI3B
>Run it on cheapo Vizio flat screen
>Change 3 options
>Get 1.5/2 Frames of lag
>Every one of my friends enjoys playing all of the games from their childhood on a huge screen.
>No one is autistic enough to notice 2 fucking frames

You guys are pants on head retarded.

>>4690612
If you had a 7700K you could have 0 or even negative frames of lag.

>>4690612
>im too retarded to notice 2 frames of lag so every one else is stupid

>>4690612

And how did you measure the input lag? You say it's 1.5/2 frames but those two values differ from each other by 25% so I'm guessing you're just estimating the lag which is the most shitty method of measuring it.

Several Anons have pointed out that the reason for the Pi lagging is the processor. "Changing 3 options" does not change that.

>>4690681
Because he's retarded. According to our favorite autists at libretro, the Pi has avg 5.00 frames of delay (60hz rendered frames that is) while a high end PC has avg 4.00. Same settings, so the weak CPU/GPU adds about one frame compared to a faster PC.

>>4690717
The avg is actually 5.65 (pi) vs 4.6 (PC) vs 3.3 (real SNES)

>>4689447
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZRce-xaiI4

if you haven't misconfigured it or you don't have a garbage TV, the input lag is neglible

could this technique be used to get 60fps on games like star fox (with a little bit of rom-specific tinkering)?

>>4690762
This method simply renders the game in advance, accounting for all possible inputs.
If you want games to run faster you have to overclock the processors.

>>4690762
>>4690767

Some guy just posted about a technique for doing this on /r/emulation, but the post seems to have disappeared.

>>4690728
I love how this guys posts proof positive it's not that big of a deal and everyone just ignores it because it goes against their narrative LOL.

>>4690762

You can already do that without runahead and without consuming lots of CPU power or altering the rom. SNES9x has an overclock setting for the FX chip alone. Crank that up to the maximum and every FX game will run at 60fps.

>>4690778

Look at the comments of that video. It's a PAL console, which runs at 50fps and it's only a visual comparison. To get an exact measurement and reliable frame data you have to work with a LED attached to the pressed button and advance the video frame by frame.

>>4690785
>and every FX game will run at 60fps.
that's not what developers intended

>>4690774
The essential idea is, using the values of memory locations corresponding to the positions of objects in a runahead frame, compute interpolated positions for these objects, and "poke" them into a snapshot of the current frame, and display this one next instead of the real frame being emulated whenever a new 3d frame is not being produced.

>>4687518
Mainboards still have VGA ports.

>>4680898
this post is so amazingly childish. You are either rich and stupid or poor and a naive child...

>>4680307
I have no idea what all this fuss is about. I have played through contraIII, actraiser1&2, Super Ghost n Ghouls and many other games on hard multiple times on a emulator like 10 years ago on a laptop. And I never noticed input lag.

>>4691025
It's a sensitivity issue, and making comparisons between something like the original hardware plugged to a CRT TV and an emulator on an LCD TV. It is nowhere as severe as people would like you to believe.

The thing is, 10 or 15 years ago people didn't really get so nitpicky about this. They were more interested in the possibility of being able to emulate these games in the first place (and online multiplayer through kaillera and such). ZSNES was acceptable because of speed and performance, but today we have much more powerful hardware that can get rid of whatever accuracy issues there may be, starting with older, easier to emulate consoles. We're at the point at which the average laptop doesn't have to resort to ancient software to emulate some of these platforms at full speed. Now people have to find something new to complain about.

I'm all for trying to make most games fully playable with no graphical glitches at full speed on adequate hardware. "Original hardware" slowdowns being emulated is not a concern of mine, though it's easy to see why some people would prefer those on games like Metal Slug, in which if I'm not mistaken, you can overclock it and run it at full speed but of course, you're going to get a more difficult game as a result.

Input lag I only see a problem when it's noticeable enough that it feels like anything has too much weight on it, but these days honestly, RetroArch without that runahead thing and plenty of the good ol emulator cores doesn't really have that much input lag. Maybe people should also consider investing in good gamepads. DS4 with DS4Windows hasn't given me noticeable lag at all.

>>4690801
>Look at the comments of that video. It's a PAL console, which runs at 50fps and it's only a visual comparison. To get an exact measurement and reliable frame data you have to work with a LED attached to the pressed button and advance the video frame by frame.

The absolute state of autism.

So if I understand it correctly, it takes the input and loads a state from X frames ago to apply it to and then simulates X frames to get us back to the current frame.

>>4691101
No, you don't jump back in time, you move on a tree with different branches.

>>4691098

This has nothing to do without autism, it is how input lag is measured.

>>4690960

If you buy a H or B board (for Intel) sure. Real motherboards ditched VGA years ago. My motherboard doesn't even have any video output connectors.

Why would you want this?

The developers originally intended for the game to be played with whatever lag the original hardware introduced.

Removing lag seems like youre just shitting all over the original developers.

>>4691492

>hurr durr, like developers intended, hurr durr

>>4691492
I'm sure if the developers had the technology and resources these days available to them they would have avoided any slowdiwn or input lag. It only makes the game look worse and in my subjective opinion would prefer to be immersed and not distracted when Kirby or Castlevania 4 slows down. Again, it's only an option which you can turn off, it doesn't prevent people from playing with the slowdowns or playing with the original hardware.
As Hendrix says, different strolks for different fokes.

>>4691485
>My motherboard doesn't even have any video output connectors.
Thats uncommon except to top end boards (because they assume you're buying a dedicated card if you're paying premium for the board)
In the business world VGA is still EXTREMELY common.

>>4691485
I have a Z170 with VGA and you can still get Z370 with them. Ryzen MB as well.

>>4691492
Coz there is still lag from your TV and from your controller which you can't control, so minimising lag as much as possible in ways that you can is important.

>>4691492
>the developers intended for the games to have lag
>the developers intended for the games to have slowdown
>the developers intended for the games to have sprite flickering
>the developers intended for the arcade ports to be inferior to the original games
>the developers intended for the console ports of doom to have lower resolution than the PC version
>the developers intended for bart simpson to be green on the NES

stop being a retard, it isn't good for you or anyone else

>>4690728

>This PAL vs. NTSC video again

I don't understand how these 'proof' videos are always some fuck that doesn't have a clue what he's doing. It's as bad as that guy who made that video to 'prove' the Wii had lag where he's playing Earthworm Jim on a fucking wireless Wiimote.

>>4680307
>can't even handle 1 frame of runahead with higan accuracy on an i5 4690K at 4.5 Ghz without having emulator slowdown
Welp. This feature is absolute garbage. Thanks for getting my hopes up, assholes.

>>4690903
Nor is it even possible. FX games had hard locks outside of Yoshi's Island. Star Fox quits benefiting from an OC at 20fps.

>>4694335
>higan accuracy

What were you expecting? That requires a 3.00 GHz CPU normally.

This works better with a faster core like bsnes-mercury-balanced or Snes9x

>>4694405
I would say you are right here, but the OP is telling hardware fags they're btfo. If I have to sacrifice accuracy to accomplish no lag, this is just simply not true.Hardware fags still have a point.

>>4694419
There is only one game where higan Accuracy has an advantage over Balanced.

>>4682185
TVs now have a game mode for this reason, takes away the lag

>>4680307
>pal roms

>>4680307
(((RetroArch)))

>>4685075
>With modern hardware?
Are you really this fucking retarded?

>>4689420
All 1/2 a frame of it. The horror.

>>4694864
Intel has removed VGA support from its onboards, and it's optional for AMD and nVidia boards. Enjoy having real VGA while you can.

(And just in case someone dives in with both feet; there are no RAMDACs in there anymore, you can't just stick a passive DVI->VGA adapter on.)

I have a Retroarch question, but it's it's for Retropie so I hope someone can help me.

Suddenly and without any kind of fucking warning at all because it's been working just fine for weeks, my Raspberry started defaulting my keyboard as player one and is honestly being a massive cunt about it. It absolutely refuses to budge and despite working just fine in the menus, the moment I push any buttons once I've gone into a game my controller acts like a kayboard. The bumpers do save states, and pressing start quits the game.

>I have completely deleted and redone my input configs
>Yes I skipped hotkey and let it use the default
>I have rebooted after changing anything
>I downloaded the program that lets you override the controller and it still doesn't fucking work
>I inserted a line of code into gnu to always default to my xbox controller no matter fucking what and it still doesn't work

What do I do? Am I just completely fucked and need to restore to an earlier version of my retropie? Apparently this is a common problem. The only thing I can think of is it started throwing this bitch fit after I dumped a bunch of master system games onto my pi.

>>4695450
I think I solved my own answer. I looked up something called Lakka which hopefully won't have the same issues.

>>4694727
This is what good consumer goys actually believe.

>>4695030
I have a machines that's less than a year old and has VGA. No one from Intel came around and removed VGA support from it.

>Have RetroPie
>Plug it in to huge HD TV
>Everyone has fun playing childhood classics
>No one gives a shit about insignificant tiny input lag
>Everyone always has fun and asks me to bring it to parties
>They love playing original mario bros and sonic games they grew up with

This is what retro gaming is all about. It isn't about having the rarest game in the box, or perfect console behind glass, it was about the games, not the speed runs, the casual games you played when you were younger or from long ago.

No one you know personally is going to give two shits about a fucking SMB2 speed run.
Who gives a shit.

>>4696956
>i am the king of video games and i decide how you should play games

Go fuck yourself, people enjoy games in different ways, don't be a fucking cunt declaring THIS IS WHAT RETRO GAMES ARE DONT DO THE THING YOU'RE ENJOYING

>>4697015
That anon said no such thing.

>>4697019
>"This is what retro gaming is all about."
>That anon said no such thing.

>>4697020
They didn't say that they decide for you, retard.

>>4697023
so saying that their way is what retro games are supposed to be is totally not condescending or anything

>>4697025
They were right, though, so maybe they had the right to condescend if that's what they did.

>>4697025
Sure, I like to get technical too, but just having fun with a group of friends or strangers in a casual way was how it was meant to be.

>>4697038
What gives you the authority to decide what games are?

>>4697049
lol The fact that I was there playing all those "retro" games when they were cutting edge in the arcades, anon. The new stuff on today's consoles? Oh, I can't speak to those, but they sure were made to keep people apart and increase autism, unlike arcades of old that forced people to be sociable and to have fun. If you could get far or even beat one of those, no one cared if you lost lives or took a while.

>>4697051
So because you played the games back when they were new, that makes you the king of video games that tells us peasants to stop enjoying games in ways you don't like?

>>4697054
No, but if you insist on speedrunning an arcade game I might tell you that such was never the intention of said game. If you enjoy it, good for you, but you can still enjoy it in a way that it was not originally intended. Like if I took great pleasure in creating an arcade cabinet for an MMORPG yet locked it down so that you can't play online, that would be cute and all, but it misses the point.

>>4697067
Now you're telling me you somehow know the intentions of every single retro developer. Why do you think you know how every single developer wanted their game to be played?

>>4697071
You like to put words into people's mouths. Arcade games were meant to casually pass time while stealing your quarters.

>>4680307
> less input lag than original hardware.

Sorry, but this is PHYSICALLY just not possible.
USB itself already has more than enough input lag.

Learn (computer) science you dumb fucks.

>>4697054
Then go play those games instead of having a cockfight in a weeb message board.

>>4697074
> Arcade games

Oh, but your original post didn't say arcade games specifically.

Also " that such was never the intention of said game". What does that mean? You're saying you know what every developer's intention was. How do you know all of the ways they intended their games to be played?

>>4697080
>autism the post

Did you notice that anon posted a picture of an arcade?

>>4697080
>I don't know why this machine is large and hard to steal!
>this home console for home for use in your home, must be for public bathrooms

>>4697084
>>4697087
>They love playing original mario bros and sonic games they grew up with

oh let me guess "uh well actually I was totally talking about the sonic arcade games yep that's what I meant"

>>4697113
I expect he even meant Super Mario Bros instead of the original Mario Bros.

>>4697113
Super Mario Bros. originated in the arcade in two different cabinets, anon; you could play the pay for time version (Playchoice 10 Super Mario Bros.) or the arcade specific version (Vs. Super Mario Bros. 1986), while the home release didn't see the states until 1986, save for an extremely limited run in some cities in 1985. Sonic had an arcade version too.

* The Playchoice 10 version of SMB was from 1985.

>>4697128
Arcade Sonic 1 is the best. No slow levels, only the best ones. Proper time limit (depending on level), not 10 min everytime. Just the best.

>>4697075
>Real SNES gets 3 frames of lag with CRT
>Emulator gets 1 frame of lag over the real hardware due to external issues.
>Emulator uses runahead to remove 3 frames of internal lag and now has 1 frame of lag.
>implying the emulator doesn't get less lag now.

>>4697860
>Emulator gets 1 frame of lag over the real hardware due to external issues.
You wish. Higan has at least 6 frames of lag.

>>4698143
[citation needed]

>>4698171
https://forums.libretro.com/t/an-input-lag-investigation/4407

>>4698182
that stuff was made by a PALfag without correct configuration and was refuted over and over again

>>4698193
Snes9x > Higan

>>4698193
>emulation has less lag then real hardware hooked up to a CRT

>>4697860
>i don't know what lag is
>if you don't press a button for 3 minutes a console has 3 minutes of lag
>i'm literally this retarded

>>4680314
input lag does exist in some form or another but the average person isn't gonna notice it 90% of the time unless someone points it out to them. like screen tearing or an fps above 60.

>>4698821
No one said any of that, you fucking retard. SNES has input lag because it does not chase the beam and runs game logic during render time, along with having to poll controllers.

Hardwarefags need to educate themselves and stop perpetuating memes like "real hardware has no lag".

>>4698143
Higan requires a special G-Sync setup to not suck. It doesn't even have an option to use vsync anymore.

>>4698193
Refuted when and how? SNES hardware having 2-3 frames of input lag in most games has already been proven, with emulation typically having a frame or two more than that. And other people have achieved next frame response already with frame delay.

>>4680471

The thing here is that you're comparing it to a super low latency monitor. However, most people would want to play this on a TV, which is going to have MUCH higher latency than that.

>>4681553
>>4687980

People tend to overlook S-Video, but it is a good inexpensive alternative to the more expensive methods and still provide a much better picture than composite.

>>4698182
That's 3 frames from Yoshi's Island alone. That means higan was getting 3 frames extra on his setup.

>>4689646

Can the raspberry Pi do proper 240p into a crt?

>>4697860

You're not taking into account the lag of all modern tvs. No modern TVs will touch a CRT in terms of input lag. Granted, playing at a computer monitor with lower imput lag times would reduce that, but who wants to play these games anywhere but a couch?

>>4680307
>ancient
How young are you?

>>4699125
Of course it doesn't "chase the beam". Only cats do that. It runs game logic whenever it's programmed to. It doesn't have to poll the controllers but you get much faster response to input if you do that manually instead of relying on the automatic option. Sounds like it's the emubaby that needs to educate himself.

>>4699138
people have gotten way better results after that guy made those tests but people keep posting those graphs as if they are the truth

>>4699152
>>4699173
we are talking about emulation lag. the original console would also have much higher lag if you connect it to an LCD TV
Also you can emulate on a CRT. Stop mixing emulation lag with display lag please because they are totally independent.

>>4699164
yes. you can do it with the built in composite output (it's in the 3.5mm jack) or you can do YPbPr or RGB with addon boards. pic is from my rpi3 connected to a consumer CRT through YPbPr with a retrotink board

>>4684979
Like?

>>4699353
If there's lag, you can't wall-jump in Super Mario Bros. Ever 16th pixel has a hidden shelf. And forget beating Mike Tyson in Punch Out too. Now, when people are talking about supposed lag in hardware, they're mistaking inherent, negligible and insignificant limitations of the technology at the time. Again, it was not a factor, but hooking up a real NES to a High-def TV will introduce lag that can prevent the player from playing certain games at their higher levels if you will.

>>4691056

I am pretty sure that every tv and maybe even every original pad has a different response time. Maybe even different age consoles. I am glad I don'T develope games like this. I doubt games in the snes era where created with the input lag in mind. No game requires the type of response time request here. There is no I wanna be the boshi on snes. Yeah, there is battle toads on snes, but I beat that too on a emulator many years ago.

>>4699353

>>4699445
intradesting. I guess that might be the reason I never enjoyed those games. But I don'T think I would ever enjoy a game like that even with the right hardware. What a niche audience... and what an annoying audience...

>>4699458
Nah, they're fun at slower settings/response times too, anon. You guys need to stop jumping the gun. I'm just stating and proving that the older games were layered and that introducing lag will put up a wall between the player and the game at its highest levels. I could start naming game secrets exclusive to right here in this thread the entire Internet over, but they're rather unbelievable without proof, but the point is that they are unreachable with lag in any case.

Games are also about exploration, which is half the fun.

>>4699463
dude, that's my point

>>4699467
You're so full of shit I can smell it through the text.

>>4699457
That was done on an emulator on a hacked Wii connected to the CRT TV btw, so that proves there's no significant lag to be noticed in that setup. I'd say if there's any lag, it's humanly imperceptible. In that case the TV isn't digital so it cannot convert and cause lag regardless of the obvious purely digital origin.

>>4699445
lots of people have beaten mike tyson on the NES classic connected to an LCD TV. that's a lot of lag but they still can do it so you're full of bullshit

>>4700053
>lots of people can beat Tyson's Punch Out
[citation needed]

>>4700271
Everyone in my neighborhood sat down and beat it over a few weeks. We were all under ten. It's not actually that hard.

>>4700292
Now everyone knows you're lying. :D

>>4700271
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk4Fp0Inq38

>>4700314
I didn't say it couldn't be done, but kids under ten never fucking beat that game for a second, also, the NES Classic has no lag when connected because it's digital to digital. Thanks for proving my point. Now, connect a real NES to modern TV and see if you can-which you cannot.

>>4700325
>kids under ten never fucking beat that game for a second
[citation needed]

>the NES Classic has no lag when connected because it's digital to digital
yes it has. the NES classic itself has some lag and all LCD TVs unavoidably have lag, even more when using the NES classic since it outputs 720p which needs to be upscaled

>Thanks for proving my point
I didn't


to sum up this thread:
>you can have very little to no lag when emulating, even on the raspberry pi
>you can emulate on a CRT adding 0 lag from the display and you can connect an original console to an LCD TV adding lots of lag, therefore the display you use is more important than the hardware running the game when talking about lag
>even with lag every game is beatable, no matter how sensitive it is to timing

>>4700361
>autism the post

Don't ever read, anon, the man wins if you do! Fight da powah!

>>4699470
well, I guess you are more full of shit than me. You sack of shit.

>>4700575
You're just mad that your reaction time is slower than mine. Have a good 'n.

>>4682274
My deepest congratulations.

>This whole thread.
Never change, /vr/.

>>4684979
You'd adjust to the input delay by simply playing the game for a while. This is why almost nobody even notices the lag unless they played on original hardware for a long time.

>>4690021
That's because of Bluetooth. Bluetooth is garbage. If you used the same shitty BT controller on a native console you'd get the same lag.
Using the touch screen or a USB controller will severely cut down any input lag to the point of near native response time. For example, PSX emulation would have the same input delay on an android as it does on a PSP.

>>4700931
I'll give you that because with TONS of tries sometimes it can be overcome, but it's like playing ping pong with blinders on. At any rate, I fully agree that newer most players never notice lag on the older stuff. I remember when lag first reared its head and at first many people were convinced that we were making it up as an excuse to under-perform.

*most newer

Fucking distractions.

>>4701032
>it's like playing ping pong with blinders on

stop saying bullshit. lag isn't some sort of mystical force that will make you suck at videogames.

>>4701124
You're one of the tragic souls that was never read to as a child, aren't you? Work on your reading comprehension because it's been explained and proven that some gaming feats are near impossible to impossible with lag.

I promise you that given a setup with noticeable lag, you will not be able to wall-jump Super Mario (a good measuring stick) or beat Mike Tyson. You're probably trolling in the Wii thread too.

>>4701150

Both feats are possible on emulators noob you're just bad at video games.

>>4701183
You really can't fucking read...

See that picture of Mario upthread where he shouldn't be? I did that with a ROM via an emulator on a Wii on a CRT. No lag. I never said emulation was a problem. Conversion is the problem, anon.

>>4701204
>I promise you that given a setup with noticeable lag, you will not be able to wall-jump Super Mario (a good measuring stick) or beat Mike Tyson

You're just bad at video games or really, really poor in which case your setup is indicative of either inefficient money or retardation.

>>4701217
You're definitely that idiot who is trolling the Wii thread too. Are you going for a record? I mean, I'm sure people in real life cannot stand you and now you're pulling that off on 4chan of all places. Good jorb.

>>4701221
>irrelevant shitposting

Well I guess that was easy. Should I make a video of beating Mike Tyson's Punchout on the rockNes with this machine using a flat-screen?

>>4701224
No, coming from you cheats will most certainly be enabled. Good day, come again! Make sweet ove to your humble PC rig.

>>4701225
>cheats will be enabled

Sounds like you're giving up but unlike you I don't cheat nor would I need to. Thanks for conceding either way.

>>4701224
Also, the scenario you described would not have any conversion done, hence no additional lag outside of some from your emulator which is negligible at best. If you don't have lag-great, but don't pretend that it's not an issue for other players who notice it.

You want attention, you got it. Now, where did the Wii /CRT touch you?

>>4701230
10/10

I conceded nothing and don't cheat on games unless it's for screwing around.

>>4701235

>you don't have lag so that's good

Thanks I know it is. Lag doesn't mean anything nor does anything noticeable.

>>4701238
>YOU ARE BETTER THAN ME SO YOU MUST BE CHEATING

git gud

>>4701247
Maybe if you go to a bar and troll you'll make a friend. And remember, if someone turns away, you have to try that much harder to push your conversation. Good luck!

>>4701272
>I cannot beat Mike Tyson's punchout without my special nintendo power glove

It's ok guy maybe one day you'll actually be good at something for once instead of blaming non-existent lag or whatever "holding you back"

>>4700361
>even on the raspberry pi
lmao
>the display you use is more important
No. It all ads up.
>even with lag every game is beatable
Righto m8.
>>4700931
>You'd adjust to the input delay by simply playing the game for a while.
This is utter horse shit. Are you psychic? Can you tell when an opponent is going to shoot at you in advance? or when an opponent is going to attack in advance?
No. You can't.
You can adjust to pre-set patterns yes, like a rhythm game, but in a dynamic action game there is no "adjusting", you have to react as it happens.

>>4700292
The only part of that that's believable is the part where that would make you under 11 today.

>>4701321
do you realize that it's not "lag or no lag"?
lag is an ammount of time and depending on how long that ammount of time is, it may affect your game or not
no game has an opponent that attacks you and you have to react in only 1 frame (1/60th of a second, ~16.67ms), that's humanly impossible so lag of 1 frame won't affect how you play a game

with 1 frame of lag you don't need to adapt to anything, no human is able to notice it

now, if you have something like 5 frames of lag it will make a difference in some games. it will obviously not affect RPGs or slow games but it will affect games that require fast reactions. some games that will be affected by that ammount of lag may still be playable by adapting to a different reaction timing

>>4701378
>no emubaby will admit to being able to notice it
FTFYK

>>4701321
>you have to react as it happens.
Git good

Is there any tangible evidence input lag means anything? This entire thread seems like video related. https://youtu.be/HznmBanZyZo

>>4702262
>irony
I'll explain for you. Let's say you need to punch someone in the face really fast and hard, yet right before you throw your punch your arm is held for a tenth of a second. Do you honestly believe that your performance is going to be where you think it ought to be under those circumstances? I can prove lag to anyone live.

>>4702264
>1/10 of a second
Unless you have ultra instinct, you'll hardly notice that.

>>4699275
I take it you don't know how the SNES works

>>4702262
Yes. Devices for measuring time in small increments very accurately have been common for many years.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=_qys9sdzJKI

>>4702485
Yes. Clearly by explaining how it actually works and proving you wrong you should take it that way. lol. Now run along and "chase the beam" little kitten.

>>4702853
>doesn't know what "chasing the beam" means in the context of retro console programming

Just stop posting. You didn't prove anything except how much of a fool you are.

>>4702889

You mean "racing the beam"?

That's what the Atari 2600 did, game logic ran during Vblank and the graphics were rendered just ahead of the beam. This is why it has zero lag and responds to input immediately.

Later systems like NES, SNES and Genesis ran game logic during render time while the previous frame was being displayed, so the inputs would always be delayed by 1 frame at least. Some games would have 2 frames of lag depending on how they read inputs.

>>4702393
You're an idiot, I assure you. Be sure to tell fast-draw competition people that.

>>4702679
That looks cool, but the original hardware is the measuring stick as to what constitutes lag. Also, I have doubts about the video. That's hardly conclusive. There's nothing showing how everything was set up. I call BS.

>>4702947
You can literally see the frame counter on the emulation one and it responds in less frames than the real NES one. Also he gave his setup details in the description so you could reproduce it yourself with high speed camera (i.e. any camera that can do 240fps or more like iPhone 8).

Face it, even real hardware can be beaten in latency performance if it doesn't literally have next frame response.

>>4703028
>you can literally see some guy's bullshit video that's slowed down.

The video has already been altered and those numbers are just the editor's arbitrary numbers appearing after his "Mississippi's" for all we know, anon. Face it, that video is hardly conclusive proof. Do we know anything about the TV except that it appears to be a flat screen CRT? I hate to break it to you, but that TV might be capable of upscaling (which would account for the delay) if it was released late enough.

Inconclusive.

>>4702679
That's probably doable with fast NES emulators. Slower emulators probably can't do it with 8ms of frame delay, so they'd be closer to the same.

>>4703049
https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=1258657#p1258657

It's a Sony KV20TR23. There's no upscaling going on.

Honestly you're just grasping at straws at this point.

>>4680307
Is it me are the playstation cores missing from base retroarch?

>>4703065
That's better, but the video still doens't show everything.

>>4703197
Not OP, but they are indeed missing among others.

>>4703209
What's up with that? Medafen/PPSSPP team got into something with libretro guys?

>>4702393
100ms is very easy to detect. Play a musical instrument for a few years and you'll be able to notice differences in reaction times of as low as 16.666ms/1 frame.

>>4703320
can you measure lag with your eyes?

>>4702889
Your post is like a tsunami of irony and stupidity. This is what happens when autistic children parrot youtube and are too lazy to even look up what they think they heard.

>>4702919
With most of my 2600 games I only bothered checking input once per frame. And I've made SNES games that manually check the input more frequently. All those systems have the option to read input as frequently as you like.