/vr/ - Retro Games

>>466482

This is a bad topic and you should feel bad

>>466491
Why?

>>466482
The Dreamcast had shoulder buttons, you fucking idiot.

>>466491
For once I agree with a post like this.

Where would the unique experience be if all the controllers for every console followed suit with each other? Why do the number of buttons matter? And the DC had triggers, which imo, where nice. The controller itself just felt awkward at times playing specific games.

>>466505
So did Saturn. This guy is retarded.

>>466505
It had shoulder TRIGGERS. It didn't have any shoulder buttons.

Even the PS1, from a gen before, had 2 shoulders on either side

>>466515
You are a complete fucking moron.

OP sounds like a Nintendo fanboy. A blind Nintendo fanboy. With no fingers.

Have you ever even HELD any of these controllers, OP?

>>466515
That's the same fucking thing, Jesus Christ did you wake up today and think Man, how could I be even MORE Retarded than yesterday?"

This is why she left you.

>The Genesis only had 3 face buttons, and no shoulders.
This was well before shoulder buttons became a thing? Also, three main buttons vs. the NES' two was a big deal.

>The Saturn was ok, but lacked extra shoulder buttons.
Had six buttons on the face, pretty much evened out. Even besides that, four shoulder buttons is kind of excessive.

Sega had different controllers?

Sounds like Genesis does what NintenkillyourselfOP

I bet OP doesn't even know the Genesis came out to compete with the NES and the SNES (as well as the advent of shoulder buttons) came well after.

Boy, what a failure of a thread. Complete and utter disaster. Let's move along everybody.

>>466520
Yes I have. I already own a Master System, Saturn and Dreamcast. I love the consoles to bits, but the controllers are fucking retarded in the aspect of button numbers.

The DC was especially annoying. Ever try playing a game on the DC that WASN'T an arcade port that only used simplistic controls?

I guess I was drawing straws with Saturn (II) controller. It really was the best Sega controller.

But once again. No select button?

>>466541
>No select button?
Which accomplishes nothing that any other button on the controller could do instead.

>>466532
I know that. It's not like there weren;t other consoles with shoulder buttons too

>>466541
Yeah, every console SHOULD be exactly the same. That's how you get variety and keep things interesting.

You worthless pile of shit.

>>466550
Name 10.

>>466541
Also, NO SELECT BUTTON!

>>466558
GameCube too. And Wii. OP is a complete idiot.

>>466560
I was keeping it retro, but you are correct.

>>466565
I wanted to stomp OP's stupid-ass point into the ground as hard as I could.

Has the select button on a console EVER really been useful? I thought companies got rid of them for a reason. It's just extra.

>>466587
Nope. It was always just an annoying out of the way button that no one ever really used.

>>466587

It was semi-useful on the NES/GB

>>466587
NES Mega Man

>>466594
Maybe in today's gen where we have an adequate amount of buttons for shit, but back when there weren't as many, it was still important

>>466604
You could say that about anything. It was just another button. That's like saying "HEY WHY DON'T XBOX HAVE Z BUTTON?" Well they have a shitload of other buttons that just happen to have other names.

The name of the button doesn't dictate what it does. They're all just buttons. Placement is the important factor and no select button was ever in a good place because it usually required your left thumb, which is almost always busy. Any function a select button serves can be better performed by a button on the right side of the controller.

What a horrible, boring, useless thread. How about talking about video games, OP?

This thread is full of butthurt sega fanbois

The Genesis controller was especially shit. Ever try playing MK with only 3 buttons?

Ever try playing a TPS like Fur Fighters with the DC controller? Having to use the face buttons like a shitty D-pad?

Ever try playing R-type, and having to run to the console to pause it but dying anyway becusse of the asinine decision to put the pause button ON the console, rather than the controller?

This thread has one decent complaint (Master system start button) and a whole load of horse shit (literally everything else the OP posted)

>>466626
>Ever try playing MK with only 3 buttons?

No, because there are these things called 6 button pads.

>>466641
Yeah, which came out way later

And even then, the lack of shoulder buttons didn't do it any favors

Why are you trying to judge the controllers by modern standards?
The Dreamcast controller worked fine for what it was. God forbid they couldn't see into the future and see that dual analog was the standard six years later..

>>466659
This. OP is probably 16 and just discovering these things and doesn't understand how to put his mind into a retro context. He doesn't even understand the Genesis came out against the NES. He probably thinks the Dreamcast came out after PS2.

Wait. There are idiots who don't think the Dreamcast had one of the best controllers ever?

>>466597
It was only useful on the NES/GB/GBA because the console lacked buttons. Seeing how the Wiimote performs when they add waggle as a third button, I still think Sega made the right choice on the Megadrive controller.

>>466558
no select button on GC was terrible though.

>twin snakes
>press button combination to go to codec menu, lol

>Master System
Putting the start button on the console was pretty silly. So you got that.

>Genesis
Originally made to compete with the NES so starting out with three buttons is not really an issue. They at least released a six button controller later on in its life cycle.

>Saturn
The Saturn came out before the Playstation and at the time L and R were the standard instead of having L1 L2 and R1 R2.

>DC
Lack of a second analog stick was pretty silly for them to do.

>>466558
>filename
>controller-white
>white

last time I checked this mother fucker is grey.

>>466693
Don't blame poor game design on the controller.

>>466704
I have some news for you anon.

>>466601
Megaman didn't use the select button for anything.

>>466587
fast access for an additional menu.

how's that bad exactly?

also,
>GBC
>play Oracle of Seasons
>every item has to be placed on B or A
>love the game dearly but menu swapping and item switching became tedious sometimes

>>466587
The only game I can think of that actually made use of it was Metal Gear Solid.

>>466707
like what?

>implying this is white and not light-gray.

>>466725
I think it is time for you to go see the eye doctor.

>>466729
I hope you're trolling. I had my N64 for over 15 years. don't insist that shit is white.

>>466717
Again, just map that to another button. Creating this button that's all "ONLY PUT MENU THINGS HERE" just limits what you can do with a controller. But if you call it F or something developers can put whatever the fuck they want there.

>>466732
Does this face look like the face of a troll?

>>466739
what I meant to say is that the GBC could have used shoulder buttons too.

>>466749
That would have been awful and you know it.

>>466743
yes.

now just go to google image search and type "N64 controller white" and N64 controller grey".

same thing pops up. I don't know why anybody calls it white. the head of your shitty reaction face dog is white. go ahead and put a standard N64 controller on his head and then say again it's white. pro-tip: it's not.

>>466758
good thing the GBA came along.

>>466587
Well, in several games on the NES/Famicom you couldn't just use the D-PAd to select a menu.

You actually had to use that Select button for its intended purpose. Amazing, isn't it?

>>466691
I would have liked better the genesis controller if the buttons were arranged for easy use of combinations instead to be honest, playing any game where you jump and shoot/slash like strider felt awkward because of it.

Why does the Genesis controller work with both the Atari and the Colecovision?

Are the controllers out of made of the same material, or something like that?

>>466765
>I don't know why anybody calls it white

Anon I don't know how to break it to you. You are color blind.

>>466790
Beats me, more than likely they use the same chipset but i ain't complainin. that shit was awesome.

>>466791
next thing you tell me the red mage is FF1 is supposed to be ORANGE mage because you are one of these assholes who call red "orange".

>>466790
>>466803

WHAT

>>466819
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQQRkJuMoo8
It's true.

You should try it someday. It's actually much better than their actual pads, no more of those controllers breaking!

>>466819
The genesis controller has backwards compatibility with both the atari and the colecovision, likewise you could use controllers from these consoles to play on the genesis.

>>466587
in tales of phantasia/destiny/etarnia to change between manual/semi-manual/auto or between in-battle characters, or shortcut to item screen in some other games

and why are sega controller cords so short.

and whose bright idea was it that the DC controller cord comes out the bottom, thus robbing you of precious inches

>>466909
And if there's anyone with no inches to spare it's you.

>>466850
>likewise you could use controllers from these consoles to play on the genesis.

STOP BLOWING MY MIND

>>466771
Sounds archaic.

>>466909
The cords came out of the bottom to prevent them from wearing and breaking while you held the controller practically upright. How can you not see the obvious reasoning behind this?

>>466921
No.
If you have a chinese clone NES (you know, poly station and stuff) that uses a 9 pin D-sub chances are that you can also use the genesis controller on those, so far i've seen 3 of those and all 3 system were capable of using the genesis controller, however the clone console's controller may or may not work on the genesis as of those 3 system only 1 was able to work on the genesis.

>>466482
>Why the hell were Sega controllers always lacking in buttons?

Because you are comparing them to the wrong consoles at the wrong time.

Master System was a backwards compatible descendant of the SG-1000. Which was a competitor to what, MSX and Colecovision? Sure, they changed it to NES style pads with the SG-1000 II, but the pause button was a machine feature, not a controller one.

Megadrive came after the NES, and was superior to that with its 3 action buttons and awesome d-pad.

Then Street Fighter became popular and they needed a 6 button controller, which they did release. Probably also inspired by the SNES.

Then they did the Saturn pad which was perfection for 2d games, what it was intended to do.
Playstation only came AFTER the Saturn, and it had 4 face + 4 shoulder buttons vs Segas 6 face + 2 shoulder ones - Saturn was better for fighting games.

Saturn 3d pad was knee jerk reaction to the N64 one (it also had analog shoulder triggers, first of its generation), and Dreamcast pad was full retarded (but it *did* support 6 face buttons, Sega just didn't implement them, some third party pads did).

They didn't have Select buttons because they are completely useless.

The Xbox 360 was the best controller. Sega should have taken a hint from Microsoft

>>466649
>Yeah, which came out way later

MK1 already supported the 6 button pad as I recall. MK2 and SF2:CE did for sure.

>>466971
BOOM. OP gets SHUT DOWN.

Seriously, OP, you don't know shit about video games or critical thinking.

>>466626
>Ever try playing MK with only 3 buttons?
Yes I have. You are unable to press start and a button at the same time with your thumb? Or do you have small hands? One thing I really liked about the Genesis controller was that it had handles and was a bit larger thus it fit into your hands much better than Nintendo controllers at the time.

>>466971
You forgot to add that if OP wanted something different then he could always try to go for the cream of the crop in controllers.
Asciiware will always live on my heart.

>>466701
>Lack of a second analog stick was pretty silly for them to do.

Two analog sticks weren't the norm then. It was an optional upgrade for the Playstation at the time when they designed the DC pad, back in early 1998. Not even every game supported it. They were just backwards evolving the Saturn 3d pad, and combined it with a tamagotchi slot (which Sony copied with the Pocketstation).

Double analog became a standard with the PS2.

you can play MK and MK2 fine with 3 buttons MK3 is the only one that really needs the 6-button controller

>>467000
and gcn, and xbox.

If anything, that's how we can divide retro- by how many sticks are on the controller.

I may be a huge SEGAfag, but I refuse to compose the gigantic book I want to write right now listing all the reasons why OP is a faggot.

Why? Because this thread is the cancer that is killing /vr/. Stop starting fires. Stop provoking console wars. Stop shitposting.

>>466774
I agree there.

>>466790
Because the signal interface is standardized.

>>466482
>The Genesis only had 3 face buttons, and no shoulders.

That's because all the Sega arcade machines at the time had 3 buttons. The Mega Drive was supposed to be a console for all the arcade ports.

>The Saturn was ok, but lacked extra shoulder buttons.

Only one button less overall than the PS1 controller.

>The DC, good god, no shoulders, no second analog stick.

It has shoulders. Also the second analogue stick was 99% useless on the Dualshock 1, so that was their frame of reference.

>>466997
asciipad sn was such a tool

>>466997
I've been using an asciipad sg-6 for years. While I prefer the Sega 6 button, it's been my go-to second player controller since like 1995.

The saturn model 2 controller is actually one of the best controllers ever made.

>>466527
9/10

So OP's argument is "why did Sega not do things that the competition did nearly two years after they did?"

>>466997
>you will never be as cool as mr. Fighter Stick MD-6

Everyone please. Dreamcast is a 6th generation console, and so discussing it is forbidden on this board. Discussion of the previous console generations is allowed, but cease discussion of Dreamcast controllers, as that is expressly forbidden.

I remember seeing a bunch of pictures of someone's collection of Saturn pads, not the original ones but the newer USB and PS2 ones. It was like pron, the controllers were all spread out on a bed. Does anyone remember this, or more importantly, know where I can find the pics? I need to lust over those pads again.

How many SNES games needed every button?
How often is SELECT ever used? Hell, even A is used instead of Start most of the time

>>470095
1999 and prior
Dreamcast is 9-9-99 baby! Had my shit pre-ordered day on with Sonic Adventure, and extra controller and two VMUs

>>470542
Hah! Found it!

>>466649
I already had a six button by the time MK came out. Then the Genesis started coming with the sixer by default

>>470586
>Sixth generation and later consoles are not considered retro.

Right from the sticky.

>>466515
>>466515
Okay, now I'm just confused about what exactly are and aren't trigger buttons.

You don't tend to see pictures of the undersides of controllers much.

I tend not to think very highly of controllers without at least 3 triggers.

>>470821
Stick click buttons?

>>470595
Kind of reminds me of this, moreso because sega ported all those games to PC.

>>470075
>>466526
Sega was generally behind on controller complexity. Come on, sega was terribly behind on controller complexity, the genesis had practically as few buttons as the NES, it didn't even experiment with a single shoulder button or ANY new button type. Then with the saturn it didn't have even one analog axis.

>>466515
>Even the PS1, from a gen before, had 2 shoulders on either side
The Dreamcast controller seems to be heavily influenced by the N64. Which was a fucking good controller. They just made the c-buttons into ABXY and made it square-ish. FYI, Half Life on Dreamcast? Plays like a dream.

>>471086
It's a little know fact Goldeneye on the N64 was prototyped with a modified Sega Saturn controller because Rareware weren't given any real N64 controllers to use.

>>471086

The N64 controller is one of the biggest abortions on hardware history. I cant believe so many people think is good.

>>471201
Take away the somewhat awkward analog stick that has the tendency to wear out over time, and you're left with a standard six-button controller. Not quite what I'd call an abortion.

>>471245
>Take away the somewhat awkward analog stick that has the tendency to wear out over time, and you're left with a standard six-button controller. Not quite what I'd call an abortion.
Especially since all the FPS games let you aim with the stick and move with the c-buttons, which was better than what the PSX tended to offer. The PSX's sticks weren't really sensitive enough for FPS, IIRC.

And I'd love to see someone explain how Mario 64 was in any way harder to play on account of the controller. The Z-trigger was a bit of design brilliance.

Say what you will, but for me the best controller is the N64 one, and one of the most beautiful too. The Playstation controller is basicaly the SNES's 2.0...

>>471298
>The Playstation controller is basicaly the SNES's 2.0

>implying that's a bad thing

There were apparently dumb shits who held the N64 controller wrong.

THIS is the correct pose.

>>471425
>>B-B-but what about the left shoulder trigger and the D-pad?
They weren't used in regular gameplay. Unless you were left handed.

>>471425
>that dumb fuck that held the left handle and stretched his thumb over for the control stick
Jesus fucking christ how can someone be so stupid

>>471434
Not in Turok 2

I want a Saturn controller, but I don't want to spend a fortune on a used controller + adapter. Where do you guys look for this kind of stuff?

>>471451
>Not in Turok 2
Turning the map on and off, removing weapon upgrades, and crouching were hardly "regular gameplay". Same as the Xbox tended to bind misc stuff to those black and white buttons nobody cared about.

>>471298

>Theres people who think originality is a good thing

>Theres people who think Nintendo is more original than Sony

>>471486

>Comparing Super Mario Bros. to Defender

This image is retarded.

>>471478
>hardly "regular gameplay"
It wasn't vital, but I definitely used those a lot less because it was out of reach.

Though really, that's a problem with the developers, not the controller.

>>471502

Also

>"Smash style" gameplay

How the fuck is that even a category? Whoever made that image can't articulate thoughts for shit. Call it Hazardous Arena Combat or some shit.

>>471453
$20 for a controller and $15 for an adapter is hardly what I'd call a fortune. Hell, you could just get the whole system for $60 or so and if you look around you're certain to find one with the model 2 controller.

>>471486
There is so much bullshit on that list. -_- Particularly the wording.

Mario 64 is the first 3D platformer with a hub world linking everything.

Rocket: Robot on Wheels is the first platformer to rely on physics. N64 platformer people tend to forget.

"3D planets with gravity" was prototyped for Mario 128, the tech demo.

"Handheld-home console link" was not the Dreamcast. It was the N64 allowing you to transfer data from your Game Boy to your N64.

People need to do more research, methinks.

>>471549
>-_-
Get the fuck out.

>>471549

You're an idiot.

Sonic was totally reliant on physics. Have you ever even PLAYED on a Genesis before?

The Nintendo 64 never had a handheld to console link, just a transfer pak.

>>466525
>That's the same fucking thing

Wait...you honestly think buttons and analog triggers are the same thing? You should try holding a PS3/360 controller. The should buttons and shoulder triggers aren't the same thing.

>>466553
Why 10? Naming 2 will prove there were others. You're purposely confining the argument with a hyperbolic condition.

>>471434
You've obviously never played Bangaioh on N64.

>>470542
Where can I buy Saturn USB controllers that don't suck?

>>475734
what

'cause that's all they needed nigga

I never really understood the purpose of the select button. Seems the select/start buttons is a remanent of the Atari 2600 era and Nintendo is still holding on to it with the WiiU. Though at least the two buttons are labelled with -/+ so they "can" be used for other options.

It bugs me when I play a Nintendo game and you have to use that button to make selections. Is the d-pad not good enough? It more often than not makes more sense to be using that to iterate a list of items.