/vr/ - Retro Games

Very little.

The Japanese marketing.

The controller in your pic. Not these monstrosities though.

>>4650352

Japan. At the cost of complete and utter failure everywhere else.

>>4650376
Cool eceleb opinion, champ.

>>4650352
the marketing was good enough in japan to allow the saturn to be a 2nd rate playstation

otherwise it was dumb

>>4650376
>t. never touched the 3d controller

>>4650352
play space harrier with the mission stick.....

play outrun with the racing controller....

NIGHTS with the 3d controller....

>released at $400, games nowadays cost more than this
>too complex to develop for
>a single fucking memory card so no ability for each player to use their own characters/data in a game
>no way to use dual analog
>library consisting of almost entirely arcade ports and shit-tier multiplats, with the "big hitter" being a gay purple jester and almost nothing beyond this unless you can read japanese (so you can then enjoy hentai games and shmups)
>games come in retarded longboxes that crack a the slightest touch and usually have terrible box art
The Saturn did nothing right. Literally, nothing. The only argument anybody can come up with is "muh perfect 2D pad". No fuck that, I shouldn't have to use different controllers for different games, I should be able to use one like the Dualshock which is good for every game.

The PS1 and N64 absolutely murdered this piece of shit and did everything it did but better. The PS1 had most of the same games plus another 2000 on top of it, with better exclusives, better graphics, better controls and more variety. N64 had all of the best multiplayer games and the high quality Nintendo/Rare exclusives. Owning either console was better than a Saturn by a mile, but owning both makes the Saturn completely obsolete. The best thing about the system was the shiny little menu screen, everything else blows and people need to stop pretending this was a good system. It wasn't, it literally killed Sega.

SEGA is what went right, motherfucking SEGA.

>>4650471
I didn't play much of it (yet) but thumbstick is probably worst ever produced.

Sega quit while they were ahead, they soon realized money wasnt the most important thing in life and are chillin out somewhere awesome i believe.

>>4650352
The only arguments against the Saturn stem from historical context. If you ignore all that, then you're left with the most pick up and play console out of the entire fifth gen lot. Pick up and play is more important for a games machine in my opinion than in depth games. At least one of those keeps you coming back more often than every six months

>The Japanese marketing.
Sold less games in japan than n64

>>4651365
using nights as a prime example of a good saturn game is just awful

>>4651596
kill yourself weeb/shmupfag/fighterfag

>>4650352
Non-definitive list: shooters, fighters, Sega ports, Panzer Dragoon, Grandia, Culdcept, Chaos Seed, Sakura Taisen, Suchie Pai, Dragon Force, Baroque.

Sega fucked up a lot with making good sequels. A good Sequel to Altered Beast, Revenge of Shinobi or Streets of Rage would have instilled a lot of confidence in the system but I guess they wanted to focus on 3D.

>>4651630
>shooters
You mean like the shit-tier port of Quake, shit-tier port of DOOM, okay port of Duke and overall mediocre game Powerslave?

>>4651618
Nights is the ultimate weebshit. you fly around as a hermaphrodite jester through hoops in a candy color world. It's Superman 64 but for fags

>>4651672
no

>>4651672
FPS is not only trash but a meme genre.

>>4651746
Oh god, you're one of those retards. I bet you play trash like JRPGs and shmups. No, shooters are one of the best genres. Certainly not modern shooters like Halo, CoD, etc., but older shooters like DOOM, Quake, Perfect Dark and Timesplitters are among the best games ever made. I don't know how anybody could actually convince themselves that blowing aliens into gorey bits with rocket launchers somehow isn't fun, but congratulations faggot, you managed to do it.

>>4651759
yawn, stick to PC

>>4651762
>yawn, stick to PC
Nice argument autismoid. I guess I pretty much had you pegged with those JRPGs and shmups.

>>4651759
Yeah, fuck those modern shooters like Halo (2001). I only play obscure, oldschool shooters like Perfect Dark (2000). Fucking kids.

>>4651764
why are you in the saturn thread? go take a shit somewhere else.

>>4651767
Yes, fuck modern shooters like Halo because Halo is absolute trash. Floaty controls, peashooter weapons, large boring environments with nothing in them, slow as fuck. There are some good modern shooters but they are few and far between, and Halo as a series certainly isn't one of them.
>>4651769
Stay mad.

>>4651759
>Certainly not modern shooters like Halo, CoD, etc., but older shooters like DOOM, Quake, Perfect Dark and Timesplitters are among the best games ever made.
I just want you to know that FPS is the only genre where I think modern games have surpassed retro games to the extent playing the older games feels like a chore.

>>4650352
I think the AM2 fighting games were really good for the Saturn. While I never owned a Saturn and loved the shit out of the PS1, I would have loved to have played VF2 more during the 5th gen era. Tekken 2 and 3 were some of my favorite games ever, and being able to play VF2, Fighting Vipers, and Last Bronx as well would have been fucking killer.

Other than the great fighting games, nothing. Nothing was better on Saturn than PS1. PS1 had every single type of game you could want and all of them ran and looked better than Saturn games.
Also if you wanted great open world games, the N64 was better than any system at the time.

>>4651774
I guess you just have shit taste or haven't played any good shooters. Boy, CoD clones with loadouts and linear campaign modes sure are fun, eh?

>>4651732
i love sokyugourentai

>>4651771
garbage posts from a garbage poster
only a bored gen Z would start a fight about FPS in a saturn thread

>>4651778
This year I've played a few fps games, including a re-play of Quake 1 and a run of the new Doom. Quake is not appreciably more fun than the new Doom is. Nostalgia goggles are the worst.

I don't know what a CoD clone is though, I've only ever played the first CoD, and it sucked dick, so I never played any other games in the series.

>>4651790
>garbage posts from a garbage poster
Just listen to yourself you dumb faggot. Shitting on Halo and liking games like Quake makes me a fucking "Gen Z"? I know that's the flavor of the month insult but the fact you can't come up with anything better is pretty sad.

>>4651781
my nicca

you can play 2d fighting games without shit missing

>>4651793
I literally do not care about FPS in this particular moment, and they are irrelevant to this thread, so please GTFO

>>4651792
>I don't know what a CoD clone is though
Literally all you had to say for me to know you are either lying or functionally retarded. Opinion safely discarded.

>>4651778
The worst COD game is better than Doom, Quake and Perfect Dark combined.
it blows my mind that there are people in 2017 who prefer such garbage to the wealth — and even glut — of modern and immeasurably superior FPSes that exist. So we are not talking about poverty or ignorance or even extremely narrow tastes anymore, but about sickness pure and simple (if poverty and ignorance and narrow tastes were not already a sickness, to an extent, when viewed from a higher perspective, which they are), and if you are involved with this scene in any way, shape or form I can guarantee you that you are autistic — that a certified medical professional would place you somewhere on the autism spectrum and that your "WADs" would be his very diagnostic tool.

>>4651797
>I literally do not care about FPS in this particular moment, and they are irrelevant to this thread, so please GTFO
I don't care what you care about, stay mad homosex.

My favorite shooter on the Saturn is Batsugun, but I don't actually own it for the system, just play it on MAME. My favorite shooter I actually have for the system is Salamander II.

>>4651801
>The worst COD game is better than Doom, Quake and Perfect Dark combined.
If this isn't bait you might legitimately be one of the most retarded people walking the earth. The fact you'd say that a game like CoD had "wealth" compared to a game like Perfect Dark which has twice as many features is laughable.

>>4651805
Jokes aside. The fact you came in this thread and threw a tantrum because we use the word shooter different than you means you are probably autistic and trying to make the world conform to your safe views.

>>4651807
>Jokes aside. The fact you came in this thread and threw a tantrum because we use the word shooter different than you means you are probably autistic and trying to make the world conform to your safe views.
By tantrum I suppose you mean calling you a faggot for saying FPS games are a "meme genre" and are all complete trash. Also, don't use "we", it's cringey. There's no "we", you aren't the arbiter of some autistic Saturn fanbase, you're just a random potato with terrible opinions.

>>4651803
batsugun is cool, I like the color palette better than a lot of the later ikeda games

>>4651801
mmm tastey bait desu, im on a diet tho.

sory

>>4651812
stay mad

>>4651812
>Also, don't use "we", it's cringey. There's no "we", you aren't the arbiter of some autistic Saturn fanbase, you're just a random potato with terrible opinions.
savage

>>4651816
>two word response
Lmao, blown the fuck out.

>>4651812
>There's no "we", you aren't the arbiter of some autistic Saturn fanbase
The we referring to people who use the word shooter to mean shooter not FPS.
>>4651818
Samefag autist.

hello, this is a thread about good saturn games, not non-/vr/ fps

>>4651823
>The we referring to people who use the word shooter to mean shooter not FPS.
Literally so blown the fuck out that you had to reply to the same post twice after getting upset that someone else found it funny and realizing that "stay mad" wasn't sufficient. God damn, what a turbotard.

>>4651831
What do you think of the Saturn Shinobi game? most of the criticism it got was from its graphics and while I dislike the art style at least its somewhat unique. Its level design is lacking compared to Revenge of Shinobi but it is one of the better 2D platformers on the console and is slightly overlooked

>he hasn't owned a Sega Saturn since the 90s

>>4651838
The digitized look is rough and inconsistent for sure, but I also think it's better than people gave it credit for. I had fun with it and the mechanics are pretty solid.

>>4650352
The fact that it's Sega, wasn't a success, was arcade focused, and is the least popular console guaranteed its eternal status as being worshipped by /vr/.

>>4651838
>>4651856
I always put the disc in after the console boots up, if you know what I'm saying
https://youtu.be/D0TjYmL5J3c

>>4650352
The arcade ports are well done for a 1995 console.

>>4651895
The European version having a different score to the American and Japanese version is strange. Also all three regions had totally different titles with the Japanese version being Shin Shinobi-Den (new ninja-story) and US being Shinobi Legions. The European score was closer to Yuzo Koshiro's Revenge of Shinobi score which is probably my favourite original score of any game but it nowhere near as good as it

Segas marketing really sucked and I can't believe they managed to lose Yuzo Koshiro. They should have bought the studio he opened and kept him as a second party at least.

I remember the Saturn being covered a lot in GameFan/other mags but even at the time everyone knew it was incredibly hard to develop for and generally had the worst of the multiplat ports.

The only reason anyone got it was for Panzer Dragoon and Nights, maybe Viruta Fighter.

>>4651927
It appealed to the Japanese market more than the Western one. Which if browsing here has though me anything leads to high quality games that don't sell.
Its probably fairer to say relatively harder than other consoles to develop for because developing was incredibly hard in general in that era and PS and N64 were hard enough to develop for. Its arguably harder to port a low spec PS game to N64 than to Saturn.

>>4651927
judging by a post like this, it sounds like what killed the Saturn was a relative lack of the 3D platformer garbage that infested the other consoles at that time and which nobody cares about anymore

>>4650352

Everything. The sega saturn was the last decent console. Gaming went to shit after.

>>4652442
Mario 64 is what started the 3d platformer craze. Saturn was basically dead by then.

>>4652775
The Saturn was not basically dead on June 23, 1996.

>>4652779
Hard to ever be dead when it was never alive in the first place.

>>4652780
>I only speak in memes

>>4650352
In Japan it launched with Virtua Fighter, which was extremely popular at the time.
>>4650510
a single fucking memory card so no ability for each player to use their own characters/data in a game
The "memory stick" doubled as a slot for extra RAM allowing for much more fluid animation in certain games.
>no way to use dual analog
If there was demand for it it would be made, there's nothing inside the machine stopping it
>games come in retarded longboxes that crack a the slightest touch and usually have terrible box art
Cases in Asia were the standard jewel ones and longboxes only crack if you're a lummox.

>>4651759
>Halo, CoD (e t c) are shit
>Puts Quake and Timesplitters under 'among the best games ever'
Holy shit, I've never seen such a contradictory fucking opinion before. Do you also think OoT is a bad game? Did you buy a NeoGeo just to be different?

>>4650729
that thumbstick is great you turd

>>4651759
I don't like violence, can't we just be friends with the aliens I don't want to see them get hurt :)

>>4652818
OoT is a bad game anon, it's extremely boring and easy.

>>4652843
Hi Egoraptor, how's sucking ass at games goin' for ya?

>>4651672

The Saturn port of Doom could have been good if Carmack had left Jim Bagley alone.

>>4650352
All the controllers look like they would work great in 6+ key rhythm games if you didnt have space for a full size music game pad

>>4652869
I never understood Carmacks intentions behind that. Was it just his ego?

>>4650376
Never had an issue with the US controller desu

>>4651812
>Also, don't use "we", it's cringey.
The irony is almost palpable.

This was the first console to do real 3d right? Sonic Jam?

>>4654628
Depends on your definition of 'real 3D'. Some would say the N64.

>>4654628
uh snes had super fx which allowed for 3d.

>>4653119
No, he is autistic and despised texture warping

>>4654968
Genesis could push polygons in software.

>>4652818
>19 year old spermling who likes CoD but browses /vr/: the post
Quake and Timesplitters are legitimately good games with solid gameplay mechanics and features, whereas Halo and CoD are thoughtless dogshit with slow, boring gameplay and barely anything to offer outside of the same repetitive multiplayer and linear campaigns. There's nothing contradictory about saying Quake is a GOAT while yearly CoD trash isn't, get some taste you retarded neanderthal.
>Do you also think OoT is a bad game?
No, because OoT had revolutionary gameplay and still holds up as one of the best adventure games ever made. This doesn't correlate with your previous statement whatsoever.
>Did you buy a NeoGeo just to be different?
No, because the NeoGeo is a piece of shit with no games.

>>4655238

Shut the fuck up. This is the Sega Saturn thread. No one cares about your thoughts about FPS. Talk about Hexen or something relevant to the thread if you just have to post here

I don't know, when I play stuff like Sega Rally and Virtua Fighter 2, I think... man, the Saturn is really good.
We could have gotten a 5th gen of just Saturn and N64 and it would have been fantastic if 3rd parties actually tried on the Saturn other than arcade ports.
Was the Playstation really necessary?

>>4651389
Man that’s really saying something, because the N64 totally flopped in Japan. At stores that sell old games like BookOff, N64 games sell for basically nothing because they just sit on shelves. Which is weird because Saturn games actually sell and command quite some money (for the desired titles anyway).

>>4651801
this reeks of underage

cawodooty stopped being good after 4. I would take Unreal Tournament over post 4 CoD any day.

>>4650352
In Japan:
- porting over a bunch of hentai games from PC98 for all the otaku pervs
- Virtua Fighter
- the best version of Symphony of the Night
- arcade ports

In the US and EU:
???????????????????
umm... Nights? I guess?

>>4655334
>Was the Playstation really necessary?
Yes, it was. Nintendo fucked itself over by refusing to let go of their market control tactics and Sega fucked itself over with their abysmal handling of the Saturn in the west. The Playstation filled the void and forced the others to adapt in order to compete. This is good for the consumer.

>>4655379
>because the N64 totally flopped in Japan.
Not sure if "totally flopped" is the correct term, in terms of hardware, it was on 3rd place, but still managed to be one of the main systems (as opposed to, say, an actual flop like the the 3DO).
As for games, Saturn games are also dirt cheap in Japan, and there is also "desired ones" on N64. Try buying Bangai-O or Bomberman 64 (the japan-exclusive one).

>>4655403
>This is good for the consumer.
Except when the playstation stopped working and you had to turn it upside down, until it eventually died.

>>4655420
Oh jesus stop being obtuse, you numbskull. He was talking about markets, not your personal experience mistreating your property.

>>4655432
Not him, but turning the PS upside down was a very common thing when the laser stopped working. At least with the early models.

>>4651746
This is the most hilariously retarded thing I've ever read

>>4655331
19 year old spermling confirmed. Stay mad faggot. I'll talk about whatever I want.

>>4654919
No but even though the game didn't come out until after, the actual hardware Saturn was released in 94 and n64 was 96 so Saturn is the first hardware that would eventually produce this type of of 3d (but yes I do consider n64 also real 3d)

>>4651793
You are trying way too hard to sound mature.

>>4655871
No you

>>4654628
If you ignore all the full 3d games on the Genesis, SNES, 32x, Jaguar, etc, sure.

>>4655927
I can't find any "real" (textured, 3d objects modeled) 3d games on those systems. Just games that use visual tricks to try to appear 3d.

>>4654628
N64 had Mario 64

PS1 had Ridge Racer and Tomb Raider

>>4655334
if anything, the Saturn got sloppy seconds and multiplats from the ps1

inb4 someone starts parroting their barely better looking port of Street fighter Alpha 2

>>4655334
>Was the Playstation really necessary?
It was the Saturn that was unnecessary.

>>4651759
>listing console FPS as among the best ever made
Found the 400lb N64 nostalgia autist. I bet you also hate shmups and jrpgs just because the N64 didn't have any.

>>4656193
>barely better looking
You’re probably too young to have played them, but 2D fighter ports on PS1 usually had lots of animation cuts and long and frequent load times.
Saturn had a lot of good original games that the underage posters in here haven’t ventured outside of YouTube long enough to learn about.

>>4656195
Come to LA so you can suck my dick

>>4656195
I had both an N64 and PS1, which had plenty of shmups and JRPGs. I dislike them because they are largely a shit genre with very few worthwhile games. Ironically, you're probably so adverse to naming FPS games among the best ever made because the Saturn didn't have any lmao. Sorry you only had access to the retard console while I was enjoying the two 5th gen greats my dude.

>>4656206
Your gimmick is old and you have to go back.

>>4656212
Yep, exactly, get blown the fuck out. You're the 400lb lard boy you wish I was and instead of N64 nostalgia you thrive on nostalgia for one of the worst consoles ever made, claiming to have some kind of superior taste when in reality you're just a fat retard. I can tell just from your comments on FPS games that you're one of those faggots who gets wrecked in every multiplayer game so you've exiled yourself to the realm of "safe" games like JRPGs and shmups which only require repetition to be good at. Sad man, real sad. Saturn fanboyism is a mental disorder.

>>4656203
I doubt i'd be able to find it beneath all of your sweaty fat rolls

>>4656198
>but 2D fighter ports on PS1 usually had lots of animation cuts and long and frequent load times.

besides X-men vs street fighter, any real examples?

>>4656212
[ ] Not told
[ ] Told
[X] TOLDASAURUS REX
[X] Cash4told.com
[X] No country for told men
[X] Knights of the told Republic
[X] ToldSpice
[x] The Elder Tolds IV: Oblivious
[x] Command & Conquer: Toldberian Sun
[x] GuiTold Hero: World Told
[X] Told King of Boletaria
[x] Countold Strike
[x] Unreal Toldament
[x] Stone-told Steve Austin
[X] Half Life 2: Episode Told
[x] World of Warcraft: Catoldclysm
[X] Roller Coaster Toldcoon
[x] Assassin’s Creed: Tolderhood
[x] Battletolds
[x] S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shatold of Chernobyl
[X] Toldasauraus Rex 2: Electric Toldaloo
[x] Told of Duty 4: Modern Toldfare
[X] Pokemon Told and Silver
[x] The Legend of Eldorado : The Lost City of Told
[X] Rampage: Toldal Destruction
[x] Told Fortress Classic
[x] Toldman: Arkham Told
[X] The Good, The Bad, and The Told
[x] Super Mario SunTold
[x] Legend of Zelda: Toldacarnia of Time
[X] Toldstone creamery
[x] Mario Golf: Toldstool Tour
[X] Super Told Boy
[X] Left 4 Told
[X] Battoldfield: Bad Company 2
[x] Toldman Sachs
[X] Conker’s Bad Fur Day: Live and Retolded
[x] Lead and Told: Gangs of the Wild West
[x] Portold 2
[x] Avatold: The Last Airbender
[X] Dragon Ball Z Toldkaichi Budokai
[x] Toldcraft II: Tolds of Toldberty
[x] Leo Toldstoy
[x] Metal Gear Toldid 3: Snake Eater
[X] 3D Dot Told Heroes
[x] J.R.R Toldkien’s Lord of the Told
[x] Told you that ps3 has no games
[X] LitTOLD Big Planet
[x] Rome: Toldal War
[x] Gran Toldrismo 5
[x] Told Calibur 4
[x] Told Fortress 2
[x] Castlevania: RonTold of Blood
[x] Guilty Gear XX Accent Told
[x] Cyndaquil, Chicorita, and Toldodile
[x] was foretold
[x] demon’s told
[x] http//:www.youtold.com
[x] Tolden Sun: Dark Dawn
[x] Tic-Tac-Told
[X] Biotold 2
[X] Toldbound
[x] icetold
[x] Told of the Rings

>>4656227
What kind of autism is this?

>>4656223
sfa2, darkstaklers 1, darkstalkers 3, real bout special

It's no secret fighting game ports on Saturn were much better than the PS1 ones. Extra RAM or not.

>>4656206
>you're probably so adverse to naming FPS games among the best ever made because the Saturn didn't have any lmao.
You'd have to be an idiot to claim any console had amazing FPS games, nevermind the Saturn. You'd know that if you actually played the genre, but I guess mommy's allowance doesn't stretch as far as buying a PC.

>>4656259
>You'd know that if you actually played the genre, but I guess mommy's allowance doesn't stretch as far as buying a PC.
Lmao, my dude, you're talking to somebody who has probably been playing Quake longer than you've been alive and probably has a better PC to boot. There are good console FPS games, both PC and console have amazing games of every kind. You'd know that if you actually played games. Just because a game like Perfect Dark isn't as good or precise as a game like Q3A or UT2K4 doesn't make it bad, it's a different experience tailored to a different control method. Get some taste faggot.

>>4656190
PS1 and n64 came out in 96. saturn was 94

>>4656268
PS1 came out in JP in 1994 and US 1995.

>>4656265
>Just because a game like Perfect Dark isn't as good or precise as a game like Q3A or UT2K4 doesn't make it bad
But it is precise, once you play the game emulated on PC with a mouse and controller, which anyone with two braincells to knock together would do. Get absolutely blown the fuck out, lmao.

>>4656274
>N64 emulation
>two braincells
Lmao sounds about right. Stay mad faggot.

>>4656279
>N64 emulation
>two braincells
>Lmao sounds about right.

>>4656279
this kills the PC fag

>>4656279
>>4656283
>>4656289
>laughing at your own retardation
I'll be playing the best version of this game while you sit drooling in front of your tv giving yourself hand cramps from your garbage controller. B-but at least you can play splitscreen with little Billy down the road, right? Then after you can have a nice little sleepover before school the next day. You N64 autists are pathetic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvuiUN78Pzs

>>4656301
Imagine... just, imagine, being such a miserable faggot that you have to convince yourself that there is no such thing as a good console shooter, then claim that there are good console shooters but they have to be played on PC, then get laughed at by multiple people and pretend that it's samefagging, and then cap it all off with mentally-ill rambling about N64s and non-existent sleepovers. I mean shit, just imagine being this much of a wretched, petulant potato lmao. Anyone reading, take notes: this is what an autistic breakdown looks like.

>>4656301
Autism

>>4656301
>posting anime girl reaction images
reminder that this automatically invalidates your argument and makes you a massive homo

>>4656306
Imagine..just imagine, being such an odious, pretentious prick, while also being such a massive brainlet with such miniscule self-awareness that you claim that there are no good shmups or jrpgs; then just 5 minutes later claim there are good games of every kind on any system, yet being so utterly, obnoxiously dense you attack someone for doing something you yourself have just done 5 minutes later. This is the level of spasticated, diaper-shitting autism we're dealing with here folks.

By the way, when Perfect Dark was altered with PC controls, it became a game played on PC. I shall enjoy knowing how utterly helpless and angry this makes the N64 fanboy inside you, knowing your precious N64 game now has its definitive version on the PC.

And we'll add desperately samefagging to save face to the list, kek. You're hilarious, champ.

>>4656353
>claim that there are no good shmups or jrpgs
Actually I said that there were "almost" none. Reading comprehension friendo. Makes the rest of autism-fueled rant a little embarassing given that it's predicated upon me saying something I never said.
>By the way, when Perfect Dark was altered with PC controls, it became a game played on PC. I shall enjoy knowing how utterly helpless and angry this makes the N64 fanboy inside you, knowing your precious N64 game now has its definitive version on the PC.
Lmao, nah, the definitive version is on 360. If you enjoy an N64 game on PC, I couldn't care less. That has really nothing to do with saying there are no good console FPS games.

>>4656349
What the hell is that?

>>4656360
i have no horse in this race and i am not that other anon but posting anime girls and being so flustered that you leave something off of your "list" and thus need to reply twice in a row is pretty indicative of how asshurt you are right now

>>4656371
Were this true, and using your exact same logical thought process, you wouldn't be so quick to aggressively defend an accusation that clearly hit the mark. Better luck next time, kiddo.

>>4656379
>Better luck next time, kiddo.

>>4656379
lol bro im not defending any accusations and nothing hit any mark, im just saying you kind of sound like a faggot

>>4656371
Don't waste any time with this retard, he literally just had a full on panic attack and he's still recovering. He's probably drafting up an another autistic memorandum as we speak.

>>4656387
So now you're replying to yourself as well? Must suck to be a schizophrenic also lol

>>4656405
>m-more than one person couldn't p-possibly disagree with me. samefag! samefag!
Yet another potato that should have been a throat baby.

>>4656409
Do you often furiously defend your mental illness on the Internet?

>>4656421

>>4655391
Britfag here. WW Soccer 97 and Sega Rally were popular.

>>4656426
epic trole lmao

>>4656190
Tomb Raider debuted on the Sega Saturn.

>>4656269
Ok, the saturn still came out earlier though. So was it the first console that would do real 3d?

>>4656448
3DO.

Sega Rally Champion is still racing perfection on the Saturn

>>4656448
By like 2 weeks. Anyway it wasn't the first. There was Virtua Racing on the Mega Drive and 3D dungeons in Phantasy Star on the Master System. Hideous untextured polygons.

>>4656469
You mean beautiful, clean, flat polys.
Anyway, Genesis could do polygons without extra hardware, but it needed help for Virtua Racing.

>>4652818
not him, but I really don't see the appeal of OoT or MM.
I wish I could afford a neo geo ;_;

>>4655432
the PSX build quality was shit, the PSU's heat would slowly over time melt the plastic holding the laser assembly and cause it to misalign creating the disc read error. Turn the PSX upside would realign the laser.

>>4656469
>Virtua Racing on the Mega Drive
untextured
>>4656469
>Phantasy Star on the Master System
no 3d modeling

>>4656187
>>4656572
Why does lack of texture mean it's not "real" 3D? Aren't polygons enough?

>>4656585
It looks like fucking shit.

>>4656585
>>4656453
3do wins https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9RMP30f2yQ

>>4656572
>untextured
Yet it's still 3D.
>>4656597
Plenty of early textured polygon games also look just as shit now. Virtua Fighter comes to mind.

>>4656623
Yes but virtua fighter had some textured surfaces on 3d objects so its a seperate category from virtua racing.
virtua fighter on the 32x has no textured surfaces, so the saturn still is the first console capable of true 3d.

>>4656623
Yes but virtua fighter had some textured surfaces on 3d objects so its a seperate category from virtua racing.
virtua fighter on the 32x has no textured surfaces, so the saturn still is the first console capable of true 3d.

>>4656775
3D is 3D whether the surfaces are textured or not. Besides, even with you moving the goalposts, as someone mentioned earlier, the 3DO did textured 3D, as well as the Atari Jaguar and 32X.

>>4656790
you're right I meant to say 3do not saturn. so 3do is the first

>>4650510
>>no way to use dual analog

There were maybe five games in total that used dual analog in that generation, and they came out after 2000.

>>4651771
Halo 1 was fucking tits.

>peashooter weapons
the base pistol doubled as a sniper gun, the actual sniper gun had a range of half the map, and the shotgun not only shredded everything you pointed at but it also did great damage from large range. The needler turned enemies into grenades, and the plasma pistol destroyed all shields + stunned enemies, so you could switch weapons to finish them or just stick a grenade on them.

The only bad weapon in the game was the machine gun, and maybe the blue plasma gun that couldn't overcharge.

How good is Panzer Dragoon Saga? Is it a must play?

>>4656851
>There were maybe five games in total that used dual analog in that generation, and they came out after 2000.
No, there were a lot more than five, and the thing is, even the game which weren't truly "dual analog" like Goldeneye or Quake 2 still let you use the dpad + stick to move and aim respectively, which is functionally the same thing as dual analog and works perfectly fine. Both the N64 and PS1 allowed for this because of the PS1's double sticks and the N64's triple pronged design, but the Saturn was incapable of it.

>>4651854
SANSHIRO

>>4652789
>I'm triggered by facts

>>4657210
>I call my trash opinions facts

>>4652789
The Saturn failing to launch isn't a meme friendo, it's reality.

>>4657071
Yes, but it's not as essential as Panzer Dragoon II.

>>4656448
The Sega Genesis, as far as I know, is the first console with polygon graphics.

>>4657554
> The Sega Genesis, as far as I know, is the first console with polygon graphics.
lol wot. no.
ever heard of the vectrex? came out -years- before the megadrive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vectrex

>>4657559
vectors != textured polygonal models

>>4657559
Well, I did specifically say polygons. Vectors aren't polygons.

>>4650352

Extremely high quality 2D arcade ports due to the RAM expansion cart.

The Saturn with an arcade stick was a 2 D fighting fan's dream in the 90s if you couldn't afford to drop $700 on a Neo Geo

>>4656206
> N64
> plenty of shoot em ups
bullshit. there's fuck all shooters for n64.

> plenty of jrpgs
yeah, that's great. region locked, only people in asian regions ever able to play them. mostly in .jp language only. nobody gave a shit about them until emulator faggots started playing them. how's your japanese language skills? as non existent as everyone else's here on this board?

anyway, what is your argument? that you're a dumb cunt that knows about only two consoles? what a shock. welcome to /vr/. you'll fit right in with the pretend experts that no nothing about everything then start crying like bitches when proven wrong OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

>>4651672

The port if Quake for the Saturn pushes more polys and has more complicated level geometry than the N64 version.

>>4657578
no kidding, genius. thanks for your informative reply that even my cat knew the answer to.

>>4657405
Then why are there so many great games for it by major publishers?

>>4657562
>>4657561
nobody cares.

>>4651672

> No censorship
> Blood/Gore
> Better framerate than other console ports
> Online multiplayer

Saturn Duke was amazing. The PS1 version runs like ass but has the Plug and Pray chapter based on other games though, so it's worth a playthrough if you're a deuk fan.

>>4657586
I care
>>4657559
no one cares
>>4657554
any games where genesis has a textured polygonal model?

>>4657576
>bullshit. there's fuck all shooters for n64.
I was talking about the PS1, how stupid are you?
>yeah, that's great. region locked, only people in asian regions ever able to play them. mostly in .jp language only. nobody gave a shit about them until emulator faggots started playing them. how's your japanese language skills? as non existent as everyone else's here on this board?
Yeah... again, I was referring to all of the JRPGs on the PS1. If you want "region locked" JRPGs, play the Sega Saturn. In fact, play the Saturn if you want the entire library to be region locked.
>anyway, what is your argument?
That the Saturn is a piece of shit, which is not so much an argument as a verifiable fact.
>hat you're a dumb cunt that knows about only two consoles?
Oh, I know about the Saturn quite well. I admit I was stupid enough to buy one.
>you'll fit right in with the pretend experts that no nothing about everything then start crying like bitches when proven wrong OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
Man, what a miserable faggot. When you're ready to have an objective discussion, let's do it. I will gladly explain to you why the Saturn is a rotten turd on a factual basis.

>>4657590
Like I said, "okay" port, wasn't trying to imply that it was bad but it is quite underwhelming compared to the PC version and to other console shooters of the era. I never meant to imply that the PS1 port was better either, certainly not, it's a complete piece of shit.

>>4657593
Only with the 32x addon. Darkxyde and Metal Head are textured.

>>4657593
I’m not aware of any Genesis games that had textured polygons. Red Zone did some stuff that kind of faked the effect, though. Zero Tolerance and a few FPS ports have raycasting engines.

I’m mystified by all the people in here talking about “real” 3D without qualifying the term. Do you mean only when there’s a GPU involved? Do you mean polygons instead of scaled sprites? Where do you count raycasting? Use specific terms, not qualitative ones.

>>4657585
LOL

>>4657576
Not him, but the only one being a "pretend expert" here is you. Let me explain a few things about the Saturn.

First off, the technical design of the system was retarded. On paper it's actually a more powerful machine than the PS1, and even N64 (in some ways), but it was notoriously difficult to develop for. This meant that devs either cut corners or refused to develop for the platform entriely. There are a few examples of the architecture being utilized well, but most games looked and played worse than those on PS1 and N64 simply because devs couldn't be bothered to deal with the Saturn's abstruse design.

Secondly, we have marketing. The whole "surprise attack" thing, releasing only 2 weeks before another console that was $100 cheaper (and being four fucking hundred dollars to begin with), very little advertising in the west, etc. Outside of the admittedly charming Segata shtick, the marketing was a mess.

Then we come to the actual games. Now, there are some good games on the console. Guardian Heroes, Dragon Force, Albert Odyssey, to name a few. However, even when you throw in the J-only titles, the library was simply underwhelming. A lot of rushed ports, arcade-style games that people had already grown tired of, and not much else. It didn't even have a proper Sonic game for brand recognition. You had the PS1 churning out hundreds of titles every year, and the N64 corning the market on high-quality exclusives. This left very little reason to own a Saturn, especially when many of its games were also available on the other consoles.

In the end, the public saw the Saturn for what it was: an overpriced, over-engineered chunk of plastic with very few defining advantages. You can say "b-but if it was marketed better!" or "b-but if it had better devs!", you can come up with any ifs, ands or buts that you want, but the fact remains that it just wasn't a very good system, not in terms of tech, economy or overall value, and consumers responded accordingly.

>>4651794
if you like shmups, how can you hate the saturn (rhetorically speaking)

>>4657585
>Then why are there so many great games for it by major publishers?
Because there aren't.

>>4651838
i love that game. i thought the cutscenes were funny

>>4651927
those 3 games were the only reason? are you 12?

>>4652775
mario 64 looked like shit even back then. the clipping was outrageous, that controller was a fuckin nightmare. i got a 64 when they came out. i was in 10th grade. it was the only system i ever got rid of. still have my saturn.

>>4657660
You’re just spewing bullshit now.
Can’t believe I’m having this conversation in the current year. What a waste of time.

>>4657674
You have an unpopular opinion. The clipping isn't worse than in any other 3D game of the era, in fact I don't remember it as an issue.
The controller was fine if you knew how to hold it.
I still have my N64 and my Saturn.
Saturn wasn't dead in 1996, it's when it reached max sales thanks to VF2.

>>4657674
Nigger, SM64 still looks good TODAY let alone back then. Get your eyes checked. I know you're probably just falseflagging anyway, but if you legit think SM64 didn't look better than the vast, vast majority of console games at the time, you are functionally retarded.

>>4657674
Ok? I don't even like 3d platformers. I'm just stating a fact.

>>4657593
>any games where genesis has a textured polygonal model?

Toy Story.

>>4657075
OK, name me all those PSX games that had dual analog controls. The only ones I remember is Alien Resurrection and Quake 2, but I haven't played the latter.

So far this is 2 games from a library of 2566.

>>4657616
>“real” 3D without qualifying the term
Textured polygonal models.

>>4657831
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HmB4ZOEMd0
Looks like a 2d game to me.

>>4650352

Nothing really.

I bought it in the 90s just to play Darius Gaiden, Guardian Heroes, and Night Warriors: Dalkstalkers Revenge. The only good games for the system.

Shinobi Legions was complete trash.

>>4657891
>The only good games for the system.
You need to explore the catalogue more.

>>4652796
>The "memory stick" doubled as a slot for extra RAM allowing for much more fluid animation in certain games
Who cares? The N64 had a RAM expansion and the ability to use four memory cards. Integrating both into the same slot is stupid.
>If there was demand for it it would be made, there's nothing inside the machine stopping it
Pretty sure there was a demand for Sonic and they didn't make that either, did they?
>Cases in Asia were the standard jewel ones and longboxes only crack if you're a lummox.
This same retarded argument over and over. "B-but muh Japan!". I don't care, I'm not a jap, I don't read moon runes, I don't play games that don't include my own fucking native language. Whether or not nips had jewel cases is of no concern to me. Here, in the US, the market that actually matters, we didn't. And also, those longboxes were pieces of shit and were usually cracked well before you ever bought them, so don't try feeding me that line.

>>4657847
Textures have nothing to do with the 3rd dimension, they are 2d images.

>>4650510
>>4658121

Saturn has built-in save memory, it doesn't require a memory card at all.

>>4658124
Textures make 3d look real and require more processing. To be "real" 3d the scene needs textured objects. Untextured polygons are technically 3d, but not real 3d

>>4658126
You sound like you have an eight-year-old’s understanding of computer graphics.

>>4658125
>Saturn has built-in save memory, it doesn't require a memory card at all.
You're pretending it doesn't get eaten up extremely fast.

>>4658126
>To be "real" 3d the scene needs textured objects.
Uh no it doesn't, it just needs objects with height, width and depth that can be rotated. Texturing has nothing to do with it, you could consider a flat color a "texture" depending on your definition.

Wow, a lot of negativity towards the SS in this thread. Let me offer up my own blogfag opinion.

See, the Saturn isn't like its contemporaries. Both the PS1 and N64 were trying to usher in this new age of 3D graphics and cinematic experiences, but the Saturn was the exact opposite -- it was the swan song of the old school. It didn't concern itself with huge sweeping adventures like Ocarina of Time or Final Fantasy 7, nor did it concern itself with giant interactive worlds like those found in Banjo-Kazooie or Spyro. It had one goal: deliver classic, arcade-style games to your living room. And in that, it succeeded.

Quantity has always been a poor metric of quality. Saying that a console sucks because it only sold a small number of units is like saying that $200 bottle of pinot noir is worse than box wine just because box wine sells more. In the case of Saturn, it did not sell very many units, but it had a lot of quality experiences. Guardian Heroes, Panzer Dragoon, Dragon Force, Shining Force, to name but a few. It wasn't the best for multiplats, its games weren't always revolutionary from a technical standpoint, but it had the quality.

Moreover, when you really think about it, the Saturn offered up quite a nice package. The controller is one of the best ever made, the form factor is sleek and attractive, it was a fantastic CD player, it had rudimentary online functions, it had built-in, battery-backed memory that required no soldering to change, an expansion port for the addition of useful peripherals, and it was built like a tank. It was easily the most cohesive and user-friendly console of the generation.

It's true, the Saturn had flaws. It was poorly marketed, overpriced and difficult to develop for. However, all said and done, it was a good console. It had good games, good features, and good hardware. It might be difficult to get into, especially nowadays with the greatly inflated prices, but it's a worthy investment for anyone that enjoys classic games.

>>4658142
right. nhl 98 just to make a save it takes 80% of the space.

>>4658683
It was free though. On the PSX you had Populus The Beginning eat up an entire memory card too, but that one cost $50.

>>4658121
They did make dual analog.

>the US, the market that actually matters

All relevant game console of the past 35 years have been made in Japan.

>>4657853
The crane machine level was 3d. Yeah, it was a raycaster like Wolf3d, but go ahead and show me a SNES game that can do that without additional hardware in the cart.

>>4658746
thats not analog

>>4658746
Delusional

manufacturing location =/= market

>non jap consoles are bad
So fucking delusional.

>>4657674
hey buster, hows that 25 fps port of tomb raider with weird water effects for you?

>>4658142
It really isn’t, when it comes to games with non-stupid storage requirements

>>4658675
>Moreover, when you really think about it, the Saturn offered up quite a nice package. The controller is one of the best ever made, the form factor is sleek and attractive, it was a fantastic CD player, it had rudimentary online functions, it had built-in, battery-backed memory that required no soldering to change, an expansion port for the addition of useful peripherals, and it was built like a tank. It was easily the most cohesive and user-friendly console of the generation.
this was what convinced me to buy one. all systems had great games, but the saturn had the most features. ps1 needed memory cards, had no extra peripherals, had a real shitty bios menu, no online, etc., n64 had weird combination of cartridge saving and memory pak saving, mandatory ram pak for some games, very few addons. saturn gave you the most out of the box, i remember getting mine and being glad i didnt have to purchase a memory card just to play

>>4659076
"Port"

>>4650352
Street Fighter Alpha 2

Sure is alot of console warrior autism in here. I owned all three at one point or another during the fifth generation. First a Saturn, which broke after falling off the dresser one to many times, then a PS1 and N64 simultaneously (divorced parents). The Saturn got replaced by the PS1 for two reasons: 1. It was cheaper. 2. The few good games we had for the Saturn: NiGHTS, VF, VR, Virtual On and Sonic Jam, didn't justify it especially since it was clear at that point ('96-'97) that the system was essentially dead. The PSX by that point had the superior library and at the end of the day that is what matters. The Saturn will always hold a place in my heart, it was the first console I ever owned and I my desire for it led me to buy a replacement 10 years ago. I bought it to replay NiGHTS but ended up discovering some great games i had missed like Panzer Dragoon. These games are great but the problem was as a kid, we didn't really know about them. I've always been a bit of a casualfag so I never got into the gaming mags or anything. Thats ultimately what did the system in, lack of exposure and awareness.

>>4660414
Many of the best games you had to purchase through mail-order, which is part of the reason they now cost $300. Ultimately the blame lays with Sega.

Everything.

-A sex having adult (owns 0 graphic tshirts, doesn't like super hero movie)

>>4661435
Are you me?

Noob question.
Is it worth to buy a PAL Saturn or only the Japanese one?
I don't see many European games on the stores, and the japanese ones are really cheap.

>>4661694
Won't a Jap one work out to be a similar price once you've added shipping, customs/VAT plus a voltage step-down converter?

>>4661435
>huhu i had sex b4 guys i'm so adult

>>4651365
>CD-rom loading times
>"""""pick up and play"""""

>>4661768
>being this autistic

>>4661726
Yes, but I'm asking because I don't know Japanese and I don't know if it's worth buying the European with high prized games or the Japanese with the issue of the lenguage.

>Master System is extremely popular in South America
>Genesis/Megadrive is extremely popular in America and Europe
>Saturn focuses almost exclusively on Japan, sells like shit everywhere else.
Why did Sega give up the Western market where they had the most mindshare to chase the Japanese market which ended up going to Sony anyway?

>>4650352
It was the birthplace of Gun Griffon. That is what is good about it.

>>4650352
Another shit tier console from a shit tier company. Terrible hardware, bad games, more expensive, and only six launch titles, all of which were terrible.

>>inb4 Sega cucks whining
>>M-m-muh Sanic!

>>4658749
Jurassic Park's interior levels.

Dual analog is a meme when discussing 5th gen games, there simply weren't enough games that utilized it. The Dualshock came out late in the PSXs lifespan, sure everyone knows about thr infamous Alien Resurrection review but using dual analog wasn't really standard until PS2/Gamecube. The N64 had a million PC shooter ports and yet only the Rare shooters uses the goofy two controller scheme.

>>4663139
Turok used it too.
The thing is, it makes sense that N64 wanted to use the analog stick for aiming, since it's a good stick for precision.

>>4659052
>So fucking delusional.

Name a non-jap console that wasn't bad.

The only one remotely hitting the "good" mark was the OG Xbox and Xbox 360, and only because it had many exclusive games which were MADE IN JAPAN.

>>4663172
wether wrong or right there is a reason its called xbox cause after 2years playan and waranty loss hm there ya go

>>4663172
That's mainly because American and European devs liked computers more. The Japanese have always loved their little toy boxes, now they've largely given up consoles for mobile and handhelds.

>>4663303
anon, the fact you used your dad's shitty IBM back in the 80s or early 90s to play games doesn't make you an adult. You used the computer as a toy box.
In fact, it's funny, but computers have the most amount of edutainment and actual games for kids, consoles are mini-arcades.

>>4663468
PCs also sucked for games, unless games were well optimized, PCs had a lot of trouble doing very basic stuff like scrolling. Or play music and sound effects at the same time.
I mean, consoles are basically computers, made exclusively to play video games.
It wasn't until late 5th gen the PCs really started to compete with consoles and surpass them in terms of performance, with the voodoo graphic cards and stuff.

>>4663471
That's bullshit. No console in 1993 was capable of running Doom at 60fps. And even before 1990 Japanese computers were more powerful than consoles. MSX in 1982 and Sharp X68000 in 1987.

>>4661909
You'll want to get a Pseudo Saturn or modchip setup in either case.

Region locking and price of games is a non-issue for any Saturn user (not for collectards though hehe)

>>4663946
Not him but the only consoles (not including really old shit like NES) available in 1993 were the SNES and Genesis which had already been around since 1990 and 1988 respectively. A year later, both PS1 and Saturn came out and, shitty ports aside, would have had no problem running DOOM at 60fps. Hell, the N64 in 1996 was literally the most powerful gaming machine on earth for a period of about 6 months.

>>4663946
>MSX in 1982
Nice scrolling.
But yeah what I mean is, obviously computers will have the better parts, consoles are budget computers limited to only be used for games.
The thing is that these kind of outdated tech consoles use are often designed and put together in a way that's effective for video game development, they don't have to worry to be an office computer of new generation.
That's the advantage of consoles. And it's silly to call them "toy boxes" because it's been already proven that video games are an all ages entertainment, and computers have the most amount of games for kids (and also the most amount of adult-only gore porn games of course).
But most often than not, consoles were more capable in games back then.
Doom in 93... 3DO? I don't remember if that port was bad or not, but I think it should handle it.

>>4663946
Meaningless discussion. Doom was capped at 35fps on PC.