/vr/ - Retro Games

>>4644195
You should do something about that brain damage, pal

>>4644195
>making bait threads about games you didn't play
Please return to /v/.

Whatever

>>4644195
So's your mom and sister

>>4644195
>people who don't play games try to talk about them

I disagree and here’s why

Square's translators added his "whatever" asshole persona to make him more like an edgy emo Cloud.
He's a chill nice guy in all other versions, even European languages.

Sometimes, somewhere, there's an old fag who worked in marketing years ago that's happy some kid was brain-damaged enough to buy into that.

>>4644195
One is suffering from a severe identity crisis and uses snark and a dark sense of humor as a coping mechanism because his entire past is a complete sham and is revealed in a well-orchestrated plot twist, the other is Cloud Strife.

>>4645131
>Sometimes, somewhere, there's an old fag who worked in marketing years ago that's happy some kid was brain-damaged enough to buy into that.
you're seriously delusional if you think they actually reflect on their decisions

Don't mind me, just being the most alpha FF protagonist ever, with a friendly disposition and a goal to help others in need.

>>4645334
it's just a shame he looks like a bobbleheaded lesbian

>>4645339

>>4644195
..................

>>4645334

>>4644195
They look nothing alike, but I'll buy it

>>4644195
>Whatever

>>4645929
>memory loss
>memory loss
>memory loss

>>4645180
+1

>>4644195
Yes ,they're pretty much the same. It was a bummer when I played FF VII for the first time not long ago.

Cloud Leonhart

>>4644195

when JPOP invaded FF...

>>4644195
You should probably actually play the games before making uninformed posts, anon

>>4646492
Anon being original is not the same thing as being good.

>>4646492
>Magicite Experiments

Did you even play FFVI?

But only one of them can stab you with his hair.

>>4644195
>one has a gun-sword
>other just has a huge-ass sword
>same character

>>4644195
>two installments of same series borrows elements from one another

>>4645929
>mortal faggots
get out Zamasu

>>4644195
Fact: Cloud is the worst FF lead

>>4647689
Cloud is actually great, but that's because a solid 33% of FFVII's lore and dialogue is about Cloud and what an utter mess his life was. Everyone getting Cloud's personality wrong is a fantastic joke.

>>4644195
No but they both got cuckd

this series post-6 really is a bunch of chuuni nonsense

>>4647730
6 was chuuni as hell
>beautiful amnesiac girl is actually a half-fairy who has an ultimate magical goddess form
>every character gets about 4 lines of characterization tops and that's usually how they fight
>villain is a psycho who becomes a god and plans to destroy hope itself
really, FF is a chuuni series from its outset though, what with the robots and legendary swords everywhere

>>4647720
Cloud is so lame that it hurts. He is only memorable because of the buster sword. I've beaten 7 probably 10 times start to finish (not including my OP Tifa and Yuffie speed runs) and desu the only thing he has ever said that stands out is that line about how if soldier was at the reactor then they would all dead, which really ruffled Barretts jimmies. His personality is almost non existent. He is a lead with very little charisma and I can't imagine people rallying behind him. The only reason people followed him is because that's how the story was written. I love 7 to death but I can't stand Cloud. His redeeming qualities are the buster sword and the fact that he isn't Tidus.

>>4647751
But where’s the angst in 1-6? Fantasy isn’t chuuni by default

>>4647760
>where’s the angst in 1-6?
In 6 it's in the World of Ruin. Did you not play the game or something? Celes tries to kill herself.

>>4647756
Cloud is a laid back guy. He may not have charisma but he doesn't need that to be a great lead. The strength of his rage to brandish a sword against Sephiroth after Nibelheim was burned, the emotion of putting his soul back together after getting his psyche smashed by mako for a third time in his life, he has a lot of detail to his story that makes him a strong character. He doesn't have to be personable for that.

>>4647772
Okay, but the world ended.
You’re stretching to make the label fit.

>>4647782
And Cloud isn't that angsty either. When he's upset, he usually has good reasons, like his life getting ruined or the fact that he's dying of magicancer. We're all just dancing to the song of the meme here.

>>4647783
Cloud defined chuuni for a generation

>>4647790
Kingdom Hearts Cloud maybe. (and a misinterpretation of Advent Children Cloud) Not the actual Cloud.

>>4647796
>FF7 cloud isn't REALLY chuuni, he's just misunderstood
best thing i've read on this website in a good long while

I'm never gonna forgive Square for retconing Cloud lifting Sephiroth while being stabbed by the musamane and throwing him off a cliff to just holding the sword and pushing him.

FUCK YOU SQUARE, YOU RUINED YOUR
OWN BEST SCENE EVER.

>>4647760
Locke's dead girlfriend? Sabin'a dead wife and child and kingdom? Terra being mind controlled? Terra's identity crisis and running away from everyone?

FFIV is even angstier

>>4647894
>Sabin

I'm retarded, I meant Cyan

>>4644195
They're nothing alike

>>4647894
>tragedy is the same thing as angst

>>4645929
Wow. I can't believe someone got salty enough over FF9 fans to make this,

>>4647912
Are we lretending the characters don't angst the fuck out about these things? Maybe Cyan doesn't.

And again, FFIV, Cecil's whole fucking deal is angsty as fuck

These are both great games and better than VII by a fair amount, but you're drawing a dumb line here

>>4646492
Wow who knew if you vastly oversimplify a story it would have some similarities to another one

>>4647756
Nigga what you said applies to almost every FF since the SNES era. For all the circlejerking over VI Terra is bland and mopey as fuck, even more so than Cloud and Squall yet receives far less hate than those two for some reason.

>>4648087
>buh buh buh why people mean to poor xXxCloudStrife666xXx

>>4648107
Not an argument

>>4644195
It's ignored with all the expanded universe bullshit, but Cloud is a lot more positive and upbeat by the end of FF7. Squall stays pretty taciturn throughout, despite his sudden and inexplicable need to save Rinoa that feels like it comes out of nowhere.

>>4645180
>revealed in a well-orchestrated plot twist, the other is Cloud Strife.
Hold on, back up.
>a well-orchestrated plot twist
FF8?
>a well-orchestrated plot twist
Final Fantasy VIII.
>well-orchestrated plot twist
Final Fantasy EIGHT!!
>well-orchestrated plot twist
AHAHAHAHAHAHAH anon, no, really. I don't even give a fuck if you think that mass amnesia of all the main characters, who happened to be from the same orphanage, and the antagonist was their nanny, and the guy they work for owned the building, I will let it slide that you think that's a GOOD plot twist (it's not, that's telenovela-tier wackobird shit, all it needed was a dramatic organ chord) but WELL ORCHESTRATED? You think Selphie suddenly infodumping that twist on a fucking basketball court because it just hit her all of a sudden was well orchestrated?

No. Hell no. You don't. No matter what you say, no matter what else happens in this obvious bait thread, you. do. not. think. that.

>>4648145
Pretty sure he was being sarcastic, seeing how it's Cloud who suffers from a severe identity crisis not Squall.

>>4648123
Exactly and well said. I haven't played any other FF7 cashins and I never will, so I base my opinions on the original FF7. After remembering who he was Cloud was much more easygoing and nice. Cid even yells at him for saying mosey for cryin' out loud.

People just like to conveniently forget that Cloud did not stay some emodouche and wasn't really one to begin with. Squall, along with FF8 overall, was completely shallow and devoid of any real development.

>>4648160
Squall actually did develop though, arguably more than Cloud did. For all of FF8's many shortcomings, Squall was not one of them.

>>4648171
Sure, it's fantastic development when he did a 180 from how he had acted like an emodouche the entire game (and only that way) to suddenly loving Rinoa and willing to take on the whole universe for their undying love... since it was in the script.

>>4648145
how would you have done it?

>>4648209
Were I able to rewrite FFVIII's entire script?
Have Selphie acknowledge them but get confused and go silent when they don't recognize her in return and her memory is only partially complete. Have Irvine recognize them instantly. Make the revelation right at Irvine's introduction, because he's the one that never forgot. It happens WAY too late and makes the characters behave in an utterly bizarre fashion to make it take so long before saying something so incredibly important to their lives. Give them a bit of angst that Matron is possessed as they start to remember. Give them a scene of familiarity with Cid, asking him if he knew about GF consequences, and let him explain how it is and why he didn't want to remind them.
GFs causing amnesia is not intrinsically bad, but holy shit they didn't pace it properly at all.

>>4645339
thats a guy?

>>4645339
10/10
spilled my beer

>>4648209
I'd have to give that a lot of thought, but there are two things in particular I'd try my utmost to do: I'd focus more on foreshadowing and building up to the reveal, and I'd have delivered the big reveal during a more climactic moment, in a more anticipated setting.

FFVII actually isn't a terrible example to follow in terms of story structure: Cloud's strange behavior was emphasized at many points early on, often leaving us wondering what's going on in the lead up to confronting Sephiroth. The truth behind Cloud's odd behavior and his identity is revealed in three major phases, and each one feels like a climax and catharsis, and ties Cloud's character arc together. The Great Northern Crater, inside the Life Stream, and finally the optional Nibelheim flashback with Zack. Assuming one gives even half a shit about FF7's story, those reveals were all heavy anticipated scenes taking place in meaningful settings. They felt important. Like the part after Zack is shot to death where the camera pans up to show the backdrop of Midgar City? Say what you will about FF7 as a whole, that scene was well done. And it provided clarity to something you were wondering about. Compare that to the way FF8 throws twists in your face with very little momentum behind them, in particular the basketball court epiphany and Gardens being owned by weird monster things.

I can't tell you in precise detail on the spot how I'd have handled FF8's twists, because I'd put a great deal of thought into it rather than throwing it in your face in one big vomitous exposition that takes place nowhere important. And all that is assuming I had to keep the plot the same.

>>4648149
I mean, technically the amnesia thing I guess, but I get what you're saying. Poe's law and all that.

>>4648180
But she asked Zell to make that BFF ring! Right in the middle of a huge aerial battle between flying cities. The timing of that scene was weird.

That was FF8's biggest issue. It was just so bad at steady build up. The game just expects you to roll with it whenever it introduces a plot point. If someone is willing to forgive that and fill in the blanks themselves I can see why they'd call Squall a well developed character. Even if I personally find the abruptness of his character arc jarring, as with so many things.

>>4648209
I'd have to give that a lot of thought, but there are two things in particular I'd try my utmost to do: I'd focus more on foreshadowing and building up to the reveal, and I'd have delivered the big reveal during a more climactic moment, in a more relevant and important setting.

FFVII actually isn't a terrible example to follow in terms of story structure: Cloud's strange behavior was emphasized at many points early on, often leaving us wondering what's going on in the lead up to confronting Sephiroth. The truth behind Cloud's odd behavior and his identity is revealed in three major phases, and each one feels like a climax and catharsis, and ties Cloud's character arc together. The Great Northern Crater, inside the Life Stream, and finally the optional Nibelheim flashback with Zack. Assuming one gives even half a shit about FF7's story, those reveals were all heavy anticipated scenes taking place in meaningful settings. They felt important. Like the part after Zack is shot to death where the camera pans up to show the backdrop of Midgar City? Say what you will about FF7 as a whole, that scene was well done. And it provided clarity to something you were wondering about. Compare that to the way FF8 throws twists in your face with very little momentum behind them, in particular the basketball court epiphany and Gardens being owned by weird monster things.

So I can't tell you in precise detail on the spot how I'd have handled FF8's twists, because I'd put a great deal of thought into it. As opposed to throwing it in your face in one big vomitous exposition that takes place nowhere in particular. And all that is assuming I had to keep the plot the same.

>>4648149
I mean, technically the amnesia thing I guess, but I get what you're saying. Poe's law and all that.

>>4648209
The G.F. Memory Loss comes off as coincidental. But it would be a useful tool when it comes to moving through compressed time. Something the Garden and Laguna had been planning ever since they rescued Ellone as a child.

I had a theory that Ultimecia was actually from the past, she sent herself and her castle to the future. Which ended the Sorceress War. She had already met Ellone in the past. So Time Compression was actually achieved when Future Ultimecia's consciousness was sent back into her past self.
It makes sense, since Ellone's "connect" power only works on people she's met. And really, when Ellone is sending Ultimecia further back in time, the gap she's bridging is only something like 6-7 years. It makes more sense that the "Junction Machine Ellone" 's real limitation is that she couldn't go directly to her past self.
The story I'm putting together in my head, is that the Sorceress War was between Adel and Ultimecia. Adel had the lunatic pandora and everyone just assumed she used the lunar cry to blow up Ultimecia, leaving the crater north of the orphanage. But Adel must have known Ultimecia slipped through time. Which is why Adel was looking for girls with special powers, like Ellone, because Adel must have known about Time Compression. How else would Dr.Odine know about it?

Speaking of Dr. Odine. You ever wonder why Ultimecia control over Rinoa was so different? Rinoa was in a coma. Why Rinoa was in a coma in the first place? It's because Rinoa still had Odine's bangle from disk 1, the one she tried giving Edea to suppress her powers.

>>4648427
I like this post.

>>4648427
The orphanage reveal was forced, but at least it's explained.

Things in FF8 that aren't explained:
>Laguna segments.
They foreshadowed the Lunatic Pandora and explained Ellone's power. But the whole reason Ellone sent Squall and the gang there was to change the past. What was she trying to change?
Had Laguna stayed with Julia, that would have been a life changing moment, sure.
But all the other moments weren't important. The Pillar Excavation site, The village. Filming the Knight and Dragon fight. What could have they possibly changed in those moments?

>The Sorceress War
It was this big event the left the world full of orphans. But it was only alluded to in the classroom at one point.
>Adel
What is s/he? Did she junction herself to a G.F. or something?
>The origin of Sorceress, The Great Hyne.
A lot of connections with FF3 and proto stories left on the cutting room floor i guess.
>Norg, Moombas, the Shumi tribe in general.
They aren't used in any real capacity. What was the point? Decoration?

Whatever

>>4648145
Here's a twist for you anon.

They're the same character.

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/movie-uk-c784da5b05701d366e7db11e0c536618.html

>>4649096
It's possible that Adel's sorceress powers mutated her body. Also, she's a woman, just very masculine in appearance.

>>4644195
And that's a good thing.

>One is a rebel who lives in the slums and makes friends with those on the fringes of society
>The other is a college kid in a fancy future college who makes friends with other college kids

>>4652497
Similar profession (no offense, Locke) and similar disposition, but vastly different origins and motivations. Probably different goals, though I don't recall the details of Zidane's personal goals. Self discovery I think?

>>4647790
>>4647796

Cloud isn't all that edgy and angsty though. It's like anon said - there's usually a good reason for how he behaves. I think the reason why Cloud is the definition of edgy is more due to the interpretations of fans and edgy kids who transported their exaggerated feelings of teenage angst, arrogance and edginess on a fictional character.


I mean just look at the original art that anon has posted, and this new art. In the original he's got broad shoulders, a spirited stance, lifting his buster sowrd with confidence, and looking like a man with a job. In comparison, the new art reflects how people REMEMBER Cloud much more. Shoulders slouched, dejected facial expression, no heroic stance. That's how Cloud is remembered, as a brooding, edgy angstmeister. The fact that Cloud was more of self-delusional hero that actually overcomes this illusion and arrives to be a hero in his own imperfect right is simply ignored for a cheap stereotype people can project unto him.

>>4653428
>new art
That's the fucking Dissidia art. I'm so tired of people trying to use that picture as a comparison to the original when it's supposed to be evoking Yoshitako Amano's more serene and softer presentation.

>>4655292
I always liked the official FF art that was in this style, felt more spiritual and magical than the manga style art

>>4655292
Cloud's presentation didn't really match the Amano sketches anyway. That anon's point still stands in spite of such pedantry.

>>4657246
>felt more spiritual and magical
it is

This thread really made me realize how much square used amnesia as a plot device.

V: Galuf
VI: Terra
VII: Cloud
VIII: Everyone
IX: Zidane

And then in X Tidus someone lampshades it by telling everyone he has amnesia, when really he's just naive about everything to do with Spira.

>>4659336
Square games are melodrama for teens.