/vr/ - Retro Games

well, I'm not gonna argue

>>4640851
>well, I'm not gonna argue
Good taste confirmed.

burp

>>4640837
But that's not ___Daikatana______

The best version was on dreamcast, very colorful (and I can almost guarantee I have a better computer than you)

It's easily belongs in the conversation.

Think OP, DOOM, Duke 3D, Quake, Goldeneye 007, Perfect Dark were the GOAT FPS's in retro generations

>>4640837
Best in comparison to what? Perfect Dark, Unreal Tournament? UT in particular does what Q3A does a hell of a lot better largely due to how many more strategies exist in comparison to Q3A.

>>4641031
>The best version was on dreamcast, very colorful (and I can almost guarantee I have a better computer than you)
Do you have a spectrum disorder or something?

>>4640837
Maybe the best multiplayer.

>>4641067
>UT in particular does what Q3A does a hell of a lot better largely due to how many more strategies exist in comparison to Q3A.
Lmao, no, just no. If you think UT has more "strategies" than Q3 then you don't understand shit about this game. UT is a trash can. Q3 is not only incredibly smooth and refined in a way that no UT game has ever been, it also has near limitless mechanical depth thanks largely to the physics system and unique weapon interactions. Learning how to effectively control the map, timing pickups, utilizing gravity to your advantage, knowing the best counters for each weapon, knowing when to deny an enemy weapons or let them take them... Q3 does all of this better. It's the digital equivalent of chess. UT is janky, cluttered and ugly.

UT2004 surpassed it.

>>4641220
>UT2004 surpassed it.
In literally no way other than maybe casual singleplayer offerings.

>>4640837
Yeah it is. It's the high-water mark of FPS gameplay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY3LZ6Wh0yM

Everybody should watch this final: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU6v8C1pw8Y

Seriously, fucking watch it.

>>4641247
you can literally see evil's dick at 1:25 kek no homo btw

>>4641247
1:48 Rapha is a true champion

>>4641247
>Yeah it is. It's the high-water mark of FPS gameplay.
I see you are a man of culture as well.
But fuck you for posting this Quake Live trash instead of the real deal

>>4640837
Shame noone plays on steam. I always wish Il find a somewhat full games but its always 1 guy or bots

>>4641178
>Q3 is not only incredibly smooth and refined in a way that no UT game has ever been, it also has near limitless mechanical depth thanks largely to the physics system and unique weapon interactions
especially with those framerate-bound physics
all Q3 weapons are rehashes of previous quake's games, except made easier to use. they don't have alternate fire modes. you can't even bounce off rockets or grenades with the gauntlet

>>4641178
>Q3 does all of this better. It's the digital equivalent of chess.
better than chess desu. way better.

>>4640837
quake engine games are the closest we've come to true man machine interface
You try marathoning CPMA or Quake 2 for a week and then tell me your %insert first person game% doesn't have weird, sluggisha nd lagged controls

>>4641410
Quake 2 is sluggish as shit

>>4641419
Unironically has better movement than vanilla quake 3

>>4641421
ahahaha

>>4641425
t. struggles to strafe at above 600 UPS

>>4641430
t. is retarded enough to play quake 2

>>4641431
multiplayer's great fampai

>>4641436
no its not. movement sluggish + shitty, weapons suck balls and it has slow weapon switching, all around aids

>>4641439
t. too retarded to select the correct weapon before engaging in combat

>>4641439
CPM > quake 2 > Q3A

>>4641296
>especially with those framerate-bound physics
By "framerate-bound physics" you mean the ability to jump very slightly higher and move very slightly faster at a higher framerate which any potato of a modern computer can achieve.
>all Q3 weapons are rehashes of previous quake's games
Hmm... it's almost like it's the third game in a series...
>they don't have alternate fire modes.
Because it's a skill-based twitch arena shooter and not fucking Timesplitters you dumb shit.
>you can't even bounce off rockets or grenades with the gauntlet
This is the most retarded criticism of a game I have ever heard in my life, seriously. Quake isn't about "bouncing rockets" off of you, it's about learning to time armor/health pickups so you can tank rockets, learning to dodge so you can evade them, or sucking at the game and getting raped by them.

>>4641421
>Unironically has better movement than vanilla quake 3
This is complete bullshit and you know it.
>>4641478
>t. too retarded to select the correct weapon before engaging in combat
Not him but it has nothing to do with selecting the correct weapon, rather that the weapons just suck. Quake 2 is a slow, floaty game with some of the most boring weapons of any shooter ever made. Quake 3 made the weapons feel power and rewarding, the Quake 2 weapons by comparison just feel so awkward and lackluster.

Best classic multiplayer shooter: Q3
Best classic singleplayer shooter: DOOM
Best tactical multiplayer shooter: Counter-Strike
Best modern singleplayer shooter (that is still retro): NOLF
Best FPS that isn't a shooter: Thief Gold/2

Quake 3 has no single player mode. It doesn't even get consideration, much less a ranking.

>>4641613
>Quake 3 has no single player mode. It doesn't even get consideration, much less a ranking.
Confirmed for being a literal retard. Any shooter is best played multiplayer, but if you're really too retarded to figure out how to play online or can't afford a basic internet connection then you can play the single player which has a variety of maps, weapons, bots with unique personalities, basic stat tracking, cheats and mods to choose from. Let me guess, you play dogshit like Goldeneye and Half-Life don't you? Because we know a cringe story with boring "objectives" is the only thing that qualifies as a singleplayer mode, right?

>>4641478
>t. too retarded to select the correct weapon before engaging in combat
No, that's not what it is you fucking retard. You lose a vast amount of gameplay dynamics with slow weapon switching (and a lowered skill ceiling). It just results in a campier and less aggressive game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY3LZ6Wh0yM

13s-16s

That's kind of shit you lose. Anybody can select the right weapon you dickhead, that's hardly a determinant of "skill" unless you're literally a mongoloid which in fairness you probably are.

>>4641571
>Best classic singleplayer shooter: DOOM
Yeah if you're literally brain dead or don't have access to a sleeping pill.

i really like these kind of threads where everybody start calling each other a retard

>>4641831
have a (you)

That's arguable, but I'd agree with you it's the most competitive and skillful shooter

>>4641178
Why do you have to go and call Quake 3 chess man. Do you like jerking yourself off so much.

>>4641290
Q3 or live?

>>4641551
>some of the most boring weapons of any shooter ever made
and yet most of them are in Q3 but made easier to use

>>4641803
>reposting the same two videos every single time Q3 is discussed
get some new material Q3fag. and a rabies shot

fast weapon switching is a crutch for shitters so they don't die with their pants down. no trick pop-shots will ever change that.

>>4641178
>>4642098
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdkDjsBiO58
1v1 seems to be more just than shooting and fast reactions

I'm pretty sure that UT would have similar case.

>>4641061
>DOOM
Yeah.
>Duke 3D
Yeah.
>Quake
Well, okay.
>Goldeneye 007, Perfect Dark
I'm gonna have to stop you there son. The only reason these games are highly regarded in retrospect is nostalgic bias and respect for "old" rare. They do look pretty despite their age for sure, but they are not much fun to play, Goldeneye especially. Not even 60 FPS emulation and keyboard+mouse controls can fix the huge glaring mistakes they made during development.

>>4642289
>fast weapon switching is a crutch for shitters
Nope you're the shitter. I mean look at your face anon. Jesus Christ.

>>4642289
>fast weapon switching is a crutch for shitters so they don't die with their pants down.
Jesus you must be so fucking awful at video games to be projecting gameplay inadequacies like that onto others.

I have literally never heard anyone in my life suggest slow weapon switching requires skill until this moment. You're absolutely brain dead anon. I think you need slow weapon switching because it gives you more time to let your brain catch up with the situation. It also saves you from the much faster and more aggressive gameplay + weapon combos.

>get some new material
lol watch literally any high level Quake 3/Live final. Much faster and more dynamic than Quake 2 will ever be. You cannot show me a single video of Quake 2 that's anywhere near as dynamic, aggressive and engaging as Quake 3 is. Go ahead and try so I can laugh at the slow sludge that is Quake 2. It is you that doesn't have any material douchebag. I swear to God, only on /vr/ would you ever find some neckbeard basement dwelling shitter trying to claim that Quake 2 is better than Q3.

>>4642289
>implying it's hard to select a weapon
Retarded much?

>>4642289
>and yet most of them are in Q3 but made easier to use
How does "easier to use" correlate with being boring or not? What kind of logic is this?
>fast weapon switching is a crutch for shitters so they don't die with their pants down.
You just went full retard. All slower weapon switching does is slow down the game, give more powerful weapons an unnecessary advantage, and make it harder to counter one weapon with another. Use your brain you dense cunt.

>>4642352
Why do you think it has to run at 60 FPS and need mouse+keyboard? Get off the elitist high-horse and recognise that a good FPS was made on a system that wasn't a PC. The customisation options alone in the games are worth it.

>>4642352
Nah, Perfect Dark is definitely one of the best FPS games ever made, PC or not. Quake 3 is still better, but it's really comparing apples and oranges because one is a twitch arena shooter and one is more a tactical spy FPS. I didn't play it until about 2009 and I still fell in love with it, after I had already been playing the likes of Quake, DOOM and Marathon for over a decade. It does a lot of stuff that no other game has done and definitely deserves a spot in a top 10 shooters list.

>>4641571
> Best FPS that isn't a shooter
Best First Person Shooter that isn't a shooter. That threw me for a loop.

>>4640837
Doom 2 should always hold the title of best fps ever made.

>>4642553
>Doom 2 should always hold the title of best fps ever made.
With those shit-tier levels? Lmao good one.

>>4642558
you can consider Doom 1/2 and Final Doom to be one big game since it's on the same engine
and if you consider that along with all the wads/mods made for Doom it is the best fps ever made

>>4642774
>you can consider Doom 1/2 and Final Doom to be one big game since it's on the same engine
I agree, however all versions of the game have a pretty poor ratio of good to bad maps. Some of those city levels in DOOM 2 are absolute unforgivable trash, and DOOM 1 has a fair share of shit itself. I mean yeah, once you throw wads into the mix then it's a different story because you can make anything you want, but judging on base game alone, a lot of DOOM levels don't really hold up today. Grey, brown, samey and boring.

>>4642782
I second this. I've played a lot of wads and consider doom as one of my favorite games, but doom 2 is still yet to be beaten.

>>4642448
>I have literally never heard anyone in my life suggest slow weapon switching requires skill until this moment
you should pull your head out of your own ass more often. maybe the fresh air will make you chimp out less as well

>lol watch literally any high level Quake 3/Live final. Much faster and more dynamic than Quake 2 will ever be. You cannot show me a single video of Quake 2 that's anywhere near as dynamic,

>20 minutes of 2:2
>dynamic and aggressive
lel. literally first result for 'quake 2 tournament'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESY_K3iG-Ps

more frags, less running away after taking damage, more going in for the kill, less hiding until fully stacked

>>4642496
Maybe he's one of those weirdos that likes their video game experience to include fun

>>4643329
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESY_K3iG-Ps
>almost 2 hours of faggots shooting rockets around corners, spamming chaingun and running away from each other
Not him but you've got to be kidding me, this is complete garbage compared to Quake 3.

>>4640837
One of the best if you keep it retro.

>>4643418
>implying there's anything non-retro which could even begin to compete

>>4643421
Keeping in the arena shooter genre, 2K4 doesn't compete, it surpasses Quake by a large margin.

>>4643429
>Keeping in the arena shooter genre, 2K4 doesn't compete, it surpasses Quake by a large margin.
>shit-tier art style
>bloated as fuck
>caters to casual play rather than competitive play
>vehicles in an arena shooter

>>4643434
>shit-tier art style
Probably the most iconic multiplayer map ever in PC fps history.

Some of the best mods to date that are still copied in games.

>caters to casual play rather than competitive play
>vehicles in an arena shooter
It's like there was only one mode or something...

Also the fucking sound track
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf-dddhIVCE

>>4643445
>Probably the most iconic multiplayer map ever in PC fps history.
Maybe, but that really has nothing to do with the art style as a whole. The characters look retarded and the weapons are over-engineered simply for the sake of looking "cool". The sleek, subtle look of Quake 3 has aged far better.
>Some of the best mods to date that are still copied in games.
The modding scene for Quake 3 is way, way bigger.
>It's like there was only one mode or something...
That's beside the point. The core gameplay is just bloated. Stuff like secondary firing modes has no place in a frantic arena shooter, it slows down the gameplay and adds unnecessary variables.

If you had to choose one to play by yourself forever, maybe UT would be the better choice, but as a refined, balanced, competitive experience, Q3A blows it out of the fucking water.

>>4643465
>Maybe .... but but but!
>aged
Argument invalidated.
>The modding scene for Quake 3 is way, way bigger.
Don't know. I know nothing that noteworthy has come out of Quake like Unreal with insta gib.

>Stuff like secondary firing modes has no place in a frantic arena shooter
Cmon guy...

>e, but as a refined, balanced, competitive experience
They are very close.

>>4643470
>Maybe .... but but but!
I like how you pretend I didn't make an actual point after this so you could just ignore it.
>Argument invalidated.
Aged, outdated, whatever you want to call it, the graphics haven't held up as well, not that they looked very good to begin with. Don't sperg out over terminology you don't like to use because you still know damn well what I mean.
>Don't know. I know nothing that noteworthy has come out of Quake like Unreal with insta gib.
Lmao, bro, Quake fucking invented "insta gib", you clearly never played a rails-only server back in the day.
>Cmon guy...
No "guy", you come on. This isn't an argument. There's a reason the weapons in Quake are very simple: because it promotes faster gameplay, twitch reactions, and weapon balance. Muddying the waters with unnecessary secondary functions does not a balanced game make. It's what games like Timesplitters and Perfect Dark do -- you know, games that revolve around casual gameplay rather than hardcore competitive fragging.
>They are very close.
They aren't even in the same league and you haven't provided a single monicum of evidence for why they would be.

I repeat: UT is not refined or balanced like Q3 is. It has an identity crisis: is it an arena shooter, is it a team shooter, is it a casual romp with crazy weapons? It's a jack of all trades that tries to do a bunch of things okay instead of a few things perfectly. Q3 doesn't have the same variety of gameplay or features that UT has, but it isn't supposed to. It does one thing perfectly: twitch shooting. It's simple but mechanically deep, highly refined and balanced, and geared towards hardcore competitive play.

>>4643445
>the fucking sound track
The fact that you had the music on while playing an arena shooter says it all.

>>4643823
This 100%. Tracking your opponent's movement by sound is one of the most critical elements of any arena shooter, the fact UT even has a soundtrack at all is pretty indicative of how little thought they put into it.

>>4643470
>implying any game with shit gimmick weapons like mine throwers could ever be more balanced than q3a
you are such a fucking retard holy shit

Do all of you actually hate UT, or just see it as weaker than Q3A? Because it's true that Q3A is a much more competetive and refined experience than UT, but I still love UT

The only game mode that Q3 is good at is free for all death match, the rest is really meh plus most people only play that shitty clan arena mode anyway.

>>4643860
There's nothing wrong with UT at all, it just isn't on the same level of refinement that Q3 is. I happen to love Perfect Dark, but I'm never going to tell you that it's as balanced or well-designed as a game like Quake 3. UT has its place -- playing versus bots and having wacky vehicles battles is great fun. But its place is not in serious competition.

Yes, yes Quake 3, very good.
However...

>>4643445
>Probably the most iconic multiplayer map ever in PC fps history.
You're thinking of Dust2

>>4640837
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_epZyv2xoo

Map I'm making.

>>4641247
This is so boring to watch but I imagine it'd be interesting if you actually played Duel

>>4640837
>multiplayer faggotry
>good

Q3 is bland and the gameplay is good.

UT is bright, exciting, more variety, more wild, daring, new gameplay.

Q3 was a good successor to Q2 but UT was a total breakthrough in the genre and had much more competitive players.

The unreal engine evolved over time and now developers are using the unreal engine still today to make some of the biggest games.

They're not using a quake engine.

Unreal Tournament is a more notable piece of gaming history and a better game, but Q3 has some great strengths.

>>4642352
>huge glaring mistakes they made during development.
Such as...

>>4644102
What a load of bullshit. Q3 isn't "bland" unless you consider refinement to be bland.
>Q3 was a good successor to Q2 but UT was a total breakthrough in the genre and had much more competitive players.
UT did absolutely nothing that hadn't been done before, and better, by other games. Name one single thing UT did and I'll tell you another game that did it better.
>The unreal engine evolved over time and now developers are using the unreal engine still today to make some of the biggest games.
Lmao, who gives a fuck what the Unreal engine is used for these days? A bunch of garbage fan games, that's what it is used for. Unreal 4 didn't even get off the ground because nobody gives a fuck about Unreal anymore, meanwhile the Quake community is still thriving.
>Unreal Tournament is a more notable piece of gaming history and a better game, but Q3 has some great strengths.
Are you fucking kidding me? A more notable piece of gaming history? The Quake series literally laid the groundwork for every 3D FPS to come and Quake 3 perfected the arena shooter format. You are absolutely fucking retarded if you think UT as a series has had even close to the impact that either the Quake series OR Quake 3 has had.

>>4644152
Quake was a bit of a depressing pass time between Doom and Unreal, later Counter Strike

>>4642448
Slow switching is more skill based because it means you need to plan your moves out in advance.

>>4643823
>>4643834
You guys realize Q3A has music too, right?

>>4644392
It isn't so much a "soundtrack" as it is just light ambient sounds for the most part.

>>4644335

>>4644335
>Slow switching is more skill based because it means you need to plan your moves out in advance.
Glad we've established that Q2 is a shit twitch shooter.

>>4644453
>Glad we've established that Q2 is not Q3 and I don't like anything that is not Q3
ftfy

>>4643809
>Quake fucking invented "insta gib"
No

>>4644448
I can't tell if you're fucking stupid or just trolling

>>4644392
Did you get the impression that either of those posters played Q3 with the music on?

>>4643809
>Quake fucking invented "insta gib"
Doom had that. And someone could probably name an earlier example, knowing this board.

>>4643903
cs is the best fps ever made imo
never been so addicted to a video game

>>4643903
Facing worlds. If you say dust it's more likely you're younger and play CSGO. So you may be right because of the huge audience CSGO has gotten.
>>4645009
CS as a whole is terrible. 1.4 and 1.6 are amazing though. I had the most fun with CSS and the mods though.

>>4641551
Q2 literally has faster and smoother movement than vq3 you fucking retard.

Don’t know why people dickride this game. QW Q2 and CPM are all better for TDM duel and ctf.

QW is so much better feeling.

>>4645015
Facing worlds is iconic and instantly recognizable, but it's not a very good map.

>>4645085
>it's not a very good map
One unlikable opinion, anon.

>>4645092
Deck16][ is the true UT classic, Face has pretty meh gameplay.

>>4640837
Thats not the right Quake.

>all the Quake 2 retards on /vr/
Kek. Just kek. This really is the shittiest FPS community on the internet.

>>4645486
>>>/vg/
>>>r/unrealtournament

>>4640837 (OP)
>>4640861
But that's not Prospekt

>>4644335
>Slow switching is more skill based because it means you need to plan your moves out in advance.
lol. Picking a weapon for any given encounter is really not a tough decision to make. Again, the fact that you think it is is really telling on just how fucking slow your brain works.

I'll try to explain again. You LOSE gameplay dynamics with slow weapon switching. Take a look at this webm. You LOSE weapon combos, you LOSE more counterplay, you LOSE a more aggressive and faster playstyle which require more decisions to be made. If a player is able to make weapon decisions as quickly as is being done in this webm, what the flying FUCK stops him from making LESS weapon decisions? An example like this webm literally requires a FASTER thought process and requires a FAR GREATER MECHANICAL DEXTERITY than what is required when some dickhead chooses to obviously pick whatever weapon he needs for a given encounter.

I swear to fucking Christ /vr/ is the only board in the world where someone pats himself on the back for picking a fucking weapon like it requires a highly nuanced thought process. You are so fucking BAD at video games. Please kys, not even joking, rid this world of your worthless genes that nobody wants already.

>>4643329
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESY_K3iG-Ps
lol. just lol.

>>4645557
Please put on a trip so I can filter your autism; you're not even wrong, you're just annoying

>>4645557
You should know by now to never discuss arena shooters, rts, or fighting games on this board. All the nostalgia tards that never played the games beyond mash pubbie level when the games were popular (or just played SP) think their opinion is worth more than the people that played duel/TDM. They're used to their egos being padded for having a big collection of garbage in their basements (more plastic crap in your basement = bigger e-dick) and can't cope with logical arguments about games that require skill.

typical /vr/ argument about an arena shooter or fighter:

>THIS IS THE BEST XYZ EVER MADE
>I respectfully disagree, there are some major problems with this and I prefer abc
>U STUPID FUCKING KID WERE YOU EVEN THERE IN THE 90S?
>but here are the realities, I played the multiplayer
>LOL ASPIE!!! ESPORT GAYMER HUH???? WANT TO BE A LEAGUE OF LEGENDS MILLIONAIRE HUH FAG? BACK TO /v/

It amazes me that this board is considered better than /v/ because it's actually worse. For example, people defending delay on weapon switching.

>>4642289
>weapon combos are a crutch for shitters

>>4645557
q3a might have less switching delay, but q2 movement is still faster

>>4640837

No decent 1 player campaign.
How can this possibly be the best FPS?
BTW, Unreal is the best FPS.

>>4640837
Maybe if you like MP, but the single-player is shit.

>>4645450
deck 16 always reminds me of iconic sniper matches

>>4646442
>mfw
lol not reading an anime weeb pedo's autism of all things m8