/vr/ - Retro Games

Ion Maiden isn't retro

>>4617746
Not even one post.
Stay classy, /vr/

Can Ion Maiden's campaign be made to run in vanilla eduke, you know, without x64 and dx11?

>>4617795
of course not

>>4617797
For "Alien World Order", a mod eventually appeared that made the majority of the episode perfectly playable under otherwise unmodded eDuke (barring nu-lighting, Incinerator and final boss' weapons). Maybe, a similar compatibility mod will eventually appear for IonMaiden as well?

>>4617746
Technically the board includes games for platforms released in or prior to 1999. Under Defeat came out in 2006, but it's allowed because it runs on the Dreamcast. With PC, it's fuzzy. What signals a change of platform?

Ion Maiden runs terribly on my piece of shit computer. But so far it is a very visually impressive game.

>>4617838
You're talking about making a new episode of a game to work in another sourceport of the same game ; versus making game A work in game B.

Also it's the same people who did both eDuke32 and IM so they're not going to make a bastard warez version of their own game.

>>4617869
what renderer are you using? opengl or classic?

>Revolver ammo boxes read Magnum XXL

Rude.

I just picked up Ion Maiden. I am hoping it's really good and can't wait for the full version of the game. It seems like a dream a game like this is even being made in at all.

>>4617846
>4617846
anything after 2001 for windows, otherwise HL2 would be "allowed"

Iron Maiden runs like complete shit. It's nothing new that eduke32's developers are incompetent and couldn't come up with a decent renderer for nearly 15 years, but charging 20$ for this is unacceptable.

>>4617887
not op, but its unplayable on opengl for me, and the classic is barely on low res

>>4618001
>>4617997
>>4617995
>>4617994
>>4617993
>>4617989
>>4617985
>>4617982
>>4617978
why are you spamming with the steam screenshots

>>4617585
>Ion Maiden
>tfw was seeing bombshell selling for 3,99 on GOG
>see "retro fps will be added to your account soon"
>don't buy this bullshit
>now it's EA and 19,99
fuck my life

Glad they finally replaced the ugly 3d bombshell placeholder face in the HUD with a new qt 2d one.

I was having issues with Ion Maiden running smoothly on my decent PC so I turned off the pallete emulation thing in the display menu and that cleared it up. If it stutters for you just try that.

Here's my brief critique on the current version of the game. The game is fantastic, but here are some things to consider, before it gets updated more.
Stuff to improve on:

>-More enemies.
The current lineup doesn't feel like it has enough variety. Both visually and gameplay/combat wise. I know that this isn't the full game, and there will be more in the final, at least. Looking to see them refine this some more.

>-More weaponry.
The current lineup is decent, but it needs to be built up more. The credits/store page mentions alternative fire modes. This would certainly be a welcome addition to make the combat (core principal of the game) more interesting. My critiques on the current weaponary is that the baton and the submachine gun are underpowered. Especially when fighting the tougher red enemies. Also, the fact that all of the weapon projectiles/bullets look so similar feels bland to me.

>-Sound design.
The enemies in Duke/SW/Blood made lot of distinctive grunts and noises. I'm sure you can recall plenty of the death noises from Duke or the random gibberish/snarls in Blood just from memory. The enemy noises in Ion Maiden do not feel as recognizable and death noises aren't as satisfying as they could be. Also, I was noticing plenty of repeated dialogue from the enemies. I guess there will be more in the full version?

Anyone know how to play duke nukem on modern hardware without dosbox?or can I use skulltag?

>>4618483

>or can I use skulltag?

Wow, I didn't know someone managed to make Doom read Duke's assets perfectly and translate all of Duke's sector effects to Doom without any bugs!

>>4618483
eduke

>>4618572
Fuck yeah, puts all the modern "old school fps" games to shame

>>4618572

I can't tell if this image is serious or trying to be tongue in cheek

>>4618498
Ok I got it to work.. I thought the Lara girl would flash out her titties!

>>4618385
she still going to lose her arm and look like the hideous crap that is from 3d bombshell

Fred from slipgate confirmed it

Does it play well? This is important since every game Interceptor made so far has been fucking garbage.

>>4617978
goddamn that art style is sick

>>4618803
yeah i can't wait for the sprites and textures to get ripped and end up in every damn doom mod from now on

>>4618619
Pls no, fuck that. 3d bombshell is a fucking disaster.

>>4618050

>spamming

why are you on this board anon

Anybody know how many levels in the early access campaign? How long will it take to complete?

>>4618453
GEROSHAY GRUUUOOOOO

Anyone else getting performance issues?

Any options to toggle to get that sweet 60fps?

>>4618906
Seemed like it was 3 maps the sort of fit together seamlessly. Took me about 45 minutes to complete without finding many secrets

>>4618916
Turn limited palette off in display options somewhere, that's the main performance hog for some reason.

>>4618917
yeeaaahhh, I'm not spending £14 on that, cheers.

For anyone having performance issues, they posted performance tips

http://steamcommunity.com/app/562860/discussions/0/1694914735993022193/

on forums they're also saying that they're working on it and that it should be a lot better along the way.

>>4618572
That's not really fair, comparing 1 map to 4 maps. Not to mention everything behind the red lines are places made for decoration you can't go.

>>4619050
>>4618917
>>4618906
It's 4 maps including a boss map. Should take 45-60 mins to complete on your first play. You're also not "paying for that", you're paying for the full game and you get "that" as a bonus.

>>4619092
>That's not really fair, comparing 1 map to 4 maps. Not to mention everything behind the red lines are places made for decoration you can't go.


Forgot pic

>>4618814
They confirmed it, its still a prequel

Just played it. 55 mins start to finish, and that was with getting lost a bunch of times.

OpenGL performance is kind of sketchy at times, even on a GTX1070, at least with with palette emulation on.
Software in 640x480 ran well and looked a lot nicer than I expected.

I like the weapons, although the weedy underarm toss on the bombs is a little annoying and the charge up bar doesn't feel like it climbs anywhere near as fast as it should.

The environments look great although I really hope there's going to be more variety than just urban areas.

Level design is was fairly solid, but I can't for the life of me figure out why they thought it was a good idea to have me collecting coloured key cards and *not tell me which cards I have*. That seems like the kind of information that really ought to be on the hud.

The biggest weak point of the game was the lack of variety in the enemies, none of whom feel like very much of a threat. The crawly head-spider things look scary but honestly don't deal enough damage to be anything more than harassment. My initial reaction to them was rapidly retreat while firing at them, but when I realised how easily they die and how little damage they're actually capable of inflicting, I pretty much just walked along shooting. They're in desperate need of either a more damaging attack, more more erratic movement to make them harder to hit and thus require more concentrated attention.

The boss mech at the end is the only threatening enemy you'll encounter, and it was the only one that managed to kill me - and even then, only because I was seeing if I could get all the way through the game without using any medkits.

I really hope they fix the enemy diversity, because right now, an otherwise excellent game is wasting its potential. The game is dire need of something akin to Doom's pinkies or lost souls, or even Duke's Drones. As it stands there's just not enough to keep you on your toes.

>>4619308
>with getting lost a bunch of times

Where did you get lost?

> *not tell me which cards I have*.

It's on the hud, bottom left near the medpack, pic related

>>4619308
I don't know if running it in software mode changed anything for you, but I could see which keycards I had on me next to the portable medkit icon on the HUD. I think they disappear when you use them though instead of being useable multiple times.

The bombs are supposed to act as bowling balls aswell which is why she rolls them instead of lobbing them in an arc. It lets them travel crazy distances before detonating at the cost of the vertical reach of Dooks pipebombs

>>4619316
>Where did you get lost?

Worst instance was after getting the yellow card, where she says something about getting into the basement. I spent 5-10 minutes running around in circles in that office complex trying to get into elevators and running up and down a metal staircase and some ladders looking for a basement.

Turns out the basement is accessed outside. For some reason.

>>4619361
? I mean. You run past that yellow key door earlier in the level and the desk you get the yellow key from has a usable computer which views from the camera outside where the door for it is to remind you.

>>4619308
>I like the weapons, although the weedy underarm toss on the bombs is a little annoying and the charge up bar doesn't feel like it climbs anywhere near as fast as it should.
Yup. Most of the weapons feel slightly too slow and would befit greatly by increasing the speed slightly. Like the shotgun delay time. Like the submachinegun reload. Like the bomb toss (which should ideally be more like Blood). Like the electronic rod.

>>4619361
You can view the basement door on the computer screen right next to the place where you get the yellow card. Also, you see the yellow card area just before you enter the building.

>>4619375
>Like the electronic rod.

I get the others... but the stun baton ?

Don't hold the key with it, spam and it'll do a combo. Personally I think the baton is OP for a close combat weapon, you can stun lock groups of 2-3 enemies easily

How can I play the demo of bombshell without having to buy the game first? Isn't that the opposite of how it's supposed to work?

>>4619440
https://goggames.goodolddownloads.com/game/ion_maiden

>>4619381
I'm probably some flavor of retarded.

However, I just played through it all again, and this time, I ran straight into an elevator that took me down the yellow key door.

I'm 100% certain the doors to this elevator would not open the first time I played.

>>4619528
The elevator unlocks once you get the yellow key, it's an optional shortcut back, although you can always go back the way you can or jump out windows instead.

>>4619308
>OpenGL performance is kind of sketchy at times, even on a GTX1070
Fuck.

Is there any way to change the fov in blood gdx?

>>4619729
Nope.

>Open GL doesn't work well for me
>Playing at 1080p software makes the framerate dip so low the final boss unplayable

Am I doing something wrong? My PC isn't by any means a toaster. I can't find the option other people spoke of to make it run smoother too. The closed off areas are fine but anything with an open environment and explosions makes my frame rate come to a complete standstill. I can't beat the final boss because of that. I want to love this game, but this really put a damper on my experience.

>>4620476
Are you trying to play with vsync on? It's pretty broken atm

>>4620476
also if you're playing in software mode, there is no reason to play at 1080p desu.

If you ask me in software the game looks the same even in lower resolution; so either try to lower it or try "pixel doubling" depending on what you like best.

Still I have a worse setup than you and no such problems; so if anything works here it looks like a machine specific issue

>>4619308
>>4619694
>>4620476
>>4620534

WTF is wrong with the framerate!?
Even if set on unlimited, when I get ~1000, i still get stuttering in certain areas and the framerate is still above 800+!
IN areas where uncapped rate is ~300 everything fine, in places where uncapped rate is ~1500 it looks like 25-30 fps instead.

This shit remains true even if framerate is capped, say, to 60. I.e. game shows exactly same framerate at all times, but it sure as hell is not the same.

I turned everything the way performance guide tells me too

topkek

Posted on /v/, but nobody knew/replied. Anyone know how to extract sprites from Build ART files? Every program I've tried (and I've tried a lot) either doesn't work with Ion Maiden's ART file, or produces scrambled images. Is it encrypted? The GRP file is perfectly accessible, and I've been able to pull the music and sound effects without any problems. Mostly I just want Shelly's expressions, because they make for good avatars. But there are too many to rip from screenshots.

>>4620575
>Is it encrypted?
Not really, but it was probably intentional.
Open .art with the notepad and remove BUILDART from the beggining.

>>4620584
That worked! Thanks, anon.

In case anybody was interested.

>>4620549
>>4620476
have you tried turning off the steam overlay ? apparently that divides framerate per two for some people with this game

>>4620626
This image, and all the art of this game REEKS of amiga.

AND I LOVE IT!

also what program did you use to extract the grp? I tried noesis and other program but they dont work.

>>4620626
Geez. I never saw that headless version.

>>4620735
I'm running pirated GOG version.
No overlay.

Funny thing is that stutttering and framerate do not match up.
As I said, it can have 400+ fps in a simple corridor and it would look like it's 20, then in large complex area 200 fps and butter smooth. The area this happens are consistent too (i.e. I always stutter in same places).
This all is very weird.

>>4618453
>submachine gun...underpowered
I disagree. It feels great as it is.

>>4619361
So you're a retard then?
You walk past that yellow door earlier, anon
>>4620575
Extracted music?
Can you upload that on MEGA, anon?

>>4620832
>Can you upload that
Mhmm.

>>4617585
Man, truly the BUILD engine is the gift that keeps on giving

>>4620780
>what program did you use

>try to figure out how to beat Ion Maiden demo boss while it destroys every single cover players could think of
>the boss gets confused by a lamp post and freaks out

>>4620919
Yeah that happened to me too.

I somehow got it stuck behind a wall, shooting only the chainguns while i could shoot it everything i got whitout being hit.

However, even with max ammo for the smg and the shotgun wasnt enough to kill it, so i was forced to use the bombs, breaking his loop.

Still beat it anyway.

>>4620881
Thanks.

>>4620919
Yeah that happened to me too.

I somehow got it stuck behind a wall, shooting only the chainguns while i could shoot it everything i got whitout being hit.

However, even with max ammo for the smg and the shotgun wasnt enough to kill it, so i was forced to use the bombs, breaking his loop.

Still beat it anyway.

>>4620893
Thanks.

>>4620534
>>4620735
>>4620547
>>4620549

>Vsync turned off
>Framerate unlocked
>Palette turned off
>800x600 resolution (just to see if this helped)
>Pixel doubling filtering turned on

I have tried everything and messed around with the setting for over an hour. The game just isn't well optimized and that is a damn shame. So many people are having issues, I don't think it's a coincidence. Thanks for the input and help guys. I just hope they patch this soon so the game can run smoothy.

I seriously can look at a wall and get over 1,000 FPS, then as soon as I go into an open area it drops to 30 FPS or lower. When I was fighting the boss, the explosions made me drop 17 FPS or BELOW.

>>4621038
>Pixel doubling
where is that?
i didnt find it.
Also for me, FPS is high if i yse a software like FRAPS to see it, but actual frame output gets low.

>>4618590
Doom is as complex as Doom 1-2.

>>4621148
D44M is a shitty Painkiller wannabe with brootal memes

>>4621148
The difference is the design philosophy though. Most of Doom2016 encounters are based on closed wave-based rooms which only open up once you kill everyone.

>>4621120

Open GL and Software both have different settings in the menu once turned on. I didn't notice this at first myself. It's rather confusing. Nothing helped me, even when I messed with every possible setting.

>>4621148
Only 3 levels out of 13 are like this. Other are linear with "extra" branches.

How do I run this on XP? Dropping the grp file on eduke does nothing. What possible excuse do these chodes have for releasing a game running on ancient software that won't work on my PC?

>>4622328
>Dropping the grp file on eduke does nothing.

If you're on a 32bit system, what you need to try is the contrary. Download eDuke32 32-bit, drop that to your IM folder and rename it "maiden.exe"

No guarantee it will work, maybe if you play using the software/classic renderer and even then...
64bit has been standard for 10+ years now.

>>4622328

>>4622328
Upgrade man what the fuck

>>4622328
>not having Windows 7
the fuck

>>4617585
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/have-any-of-the-builds-of-duke-nukem-forever-ever-leaked.120567/
Have fun

Ion Maiden looks pretty awesome. I wish I could play the demo BEFORE buying the game, as is traditional, but I'll probably buy it soon anyway.

Hopefully when the full version releases, it'll have some good multiplayer.

when will eduke32 support shadow warrior? you can even build it, it just won't launch.

also why is mapping for these games such a bitch

>>4622556
>using a newfangled bloatUI OS when Windows 2000 still gets the job done on a P2 with only 32 MB RAM

pleb

>>4622802
>>4619487

I saw a thread on /v/ yesterday about an earlier build of DNF that Gearbox doesn't want to release. Supposedly it was 80% done. Any of you guys hear about this? I know it isn't retro but was just wondering if anyone heard of it. Supposedly it was a 2001 build of the game so maybe that build itself could be considered retro idk.

>>4623425
i saw that, too. i take any and all news on /v/ with sodom & gomorrah levels of salt, but someone seemed to be leaking materials and models from in it

hopefully we get a full build leaked

>>4623425
Look literally 5 posts up

>>4622574
This version of DNF being withheld is right up there with Blood source code never being released in terms of shittiness.

My biggest complaint of Ion Maiden is that it does that same "broken mirror" thing that modern shooters do, even though the Build Engine can presumably handle mirrors.

>>4624148
It's been confirmed that was only because they have no protagonist sprite yet.

>>4623425
>>4623776
Maybe they're embarrassed of the job they did compared to the original project

>>4622463
>engine is called EDuke32
>requires a 64-bit processor and operating system

Has anyone heard anything about a collector's edition for Ion Maiden? I was going to buy the early access version but if they're planning a nice box set for the full release, I'd rather have that

I've played Blood and Duke (loved the former, only liked the latter), I tried Ion Maiden and it made me want to play the other build engine game I was missing, SW.

I played the first level but I just don't like the weapons... Is it worth it to continue for the level design?

>>4622510
This is /vr/ fagboy

>>4624962
Shadow Warrior is underrated as fuck
It's on-par with Duke, I'd say.
At least gameplay wise. The weapons are fantastic.

>>4624962
>>4625172
Try to finish the first chapter, Enter the Wang
If you're not a fan by that point, don't continue.
You sure you played all the older BUILD games?
NAM is worth playing too

>>4625172
>>4625181
No sorry, I mean I played the big 3.

I'll try to give it another chance tomorrow

>>4624962
The weapons are fantastic. The only real miss is the shurikens. How anyone can dislike the 4 barrel shotgun, double uzis, and the best grenade launcher in any game is beyond me.

>>4625181
NAM sucks ass

>>4617869
Same.

I really need to get a decent computer...

>>4624962
OK, here's the thing. SW's weapons are just weird, period. Or, rather, unreliable, by and large, I guess? The riot gun, though, is very much ok, and is the first working horse you get and you can rely upon (then there are rocket launcher, grenade launcher and railgun, which also, by and large, "just work"). Anyway, said riot gun can be found in one of the secrets in level1 or, I guess, if not discovered in said secret, on level2 then. And it really is a game-changer, it WILL become your main gun from that point onward.
Anyway, in terms of level-design, as the poster above me said, do try to complete the shareware episode. Levels 3 and 4 are probably the best ones in the entire game (although the rest doesn't lag THAT much behind them). Level 1 is just generally shit, it's haphazard and scatterbrained even if one disregards the weapon problem. Anyway, for now, I advise you to just keep playing it.

Also, strangely enough, the closest retro analogue to IonMaiden is Eradicator, rather than any of old Build shooters. Well, at least, in my opinion. It's even possible to play as a chick (with oneliners and shit) there. It's also a pretty good game, even if monotonous. Think sci-fi Blood without ranged hitscan.

>>4624962
SW has a different balance. You can die quickly, but you can also kill shit quickly.

It's all about the explosives. You got a bit of rocket launcher and grenade launcher ammo? Use those fuckers, go wild. Even on the hardest skill and "pistol" starting each map you have tons of ammo. Forget about using the Uzi/Riot Gun as your main weapons, this isn't Doom.

>>4617869
>>4625465
it seems it's early access for a reason. hopefully they will optimize it by the time they release the game.

>>4625690
They never do.

>>4625687
Well, that's incorrect. RiotGun on altmode is easily on par with explosives DPS-wise, and more than decent on primary mode. Uzis' downfall is that they burn through the entire ammo stash in, like, seconds - and THAT'S what makes them highly situational (like killing those bees, you know). While DPS-wise they are pretty awesome.

Shadow Warrior Redux runs like shit for me. I get framerate kills and the mouse feels shitty and input laggy. It's worse with v-sync on but even without it doesn't feel good and the screen looks all jittery and strange. I've tried various resolutions, framerate caps, v-sync on/off to no avail. My system should be more than good enough to handle it -- actually my old laptop ran it flawlessly but now the new one that is far superior has problems with it. Any help? Thanks.

>>4625676
>Eradicator
Good to see some love for it here, I'm playing it now as the miner guy and having a blast.

/vr/ seems to have gotten over its fear of Blood. Took a while, but it seems it finally understands how to play it. The next obstacle is apparently Shadow Warrior, which happens to be just as good as Blood, but alas /vr/ is never able to adjust to different FPS's.

SW fucking rocks and is easily the most high octane '90s FPS there is. It can go so ludicrously fast if you have the reflexes for it. I tend to go through 'phases' for FPS's where one of them becomes my favourite for whatever reason -- these days I'm really feeling SW. I just wish the Redux port didn't run so fucking shit on my system.

Am I the only one who feels Ion Maiden is a product by mappers only to show us their Build penis? The levels are just generic supermazes. Enemies are a joke as well.

>>4625815
I've always liked SW (despite finding it similar - and inferior - to Cybermage), and I've always utterly despised Blood.

>>4625868
Not only that, the maps themselves just stink of adhering to "Doom/Douk community guidelines". Fucking Prug'n'Pray from PSX Duke has tons more personality, than these maps, not to mention Keith Schuler's babies from SW or The One And Only Allen Blum.
In one of the previous threads in /v/ some anon claimed to be a level-designer from this games - and claimed that the team collaborates on anything to the point of basically, it seems to me, "designing by the committee". Either this, or some "mappers" just don't have their own mapping style at all.

>>4625976
>adhering to "Doom/Douk community guidelines".

Like what?

>Fucking Prug'n'Pray from PSX Duke has tons more personality,

Half of prug'n'pray is literally "We're so un-inspired we're copy pasting level design traits from other popular games".
The other half is generic below-average 1996 usermap quality.

>>4625994
>Like what?
Wouldn't know, I don't like ego-stroking Internet wankers, fishing for rep points.
>Half of prug'n'pray is literally "We're so un-inspired we're copy pasting level design traits from other popular games".
That's called "theme", and the environmental stuff you've mentioned has nothing to do with the layouts.
In IonMaiden, the layouts THEMSELVES suck, if I were to find the closest analogy from the major old Build shooters, Randy Pitchford's levels would probably be the closest analogy. Just as scatterbrained and all over the place. And id-related stuff, Tim Willits (his raven.wad and his Quake levels) comes to mind.
Point is, some level-designers just don't have their Own Personal Opinion, of what happens to constitute a good level. Thus, they don't have any sort of mapping style, since they are basing their work upon someone other's opinion. And their maps don't have any idea and any point other than adhering to that someone other's taste.
However twisted, Prug'n'Pray's author definitely DID have a perfectly clear idea of what he personally considered to be a good fun level. We might disagree upon that idea, but it was clearly there. In Ion Maiden, there is nothing to disagree with, since there is no statement to begin with.

>>4626015
It's not even that this sort of level-design is scatterbrained and all over the place.
It's just that it's completely and utterly CLUELESS, that's the word. The author doesn't know why he is doing what he is doing.

>>4626015
>Wouldn't know

So you're saying the levels adherre to "community guidelines" but you don't know what those guidelines are? Okay.

> Prug'n'Pray's author definitely DID have a perfectly clear idea of what he personally considered to be a good fun level.

This is ridiculous lol, if that's the case then he's the only one enjoying his levels.
If anything Prug'n'Pray IS the thing that's "scatterbrained", the episode is full of non-sentical transitions with thematic break-downs everywhere, rooms that serve no purpose other than to add confusion, and unlinearity that is there for the sake of being unlinear and only results in making entire parts of the maps pointless.

In other words, Prug'n'Pray doesn't have "style", it just do things quickly and randomly, and do other some things with no reasoning behind it only because they saw something similar elsewhere. I.E: giving a 2nd backdoor to an area locked by a keycard, but doing so in such a way it renders half of the map pointless.
Or having "puzzles with switches" because that was a cool thing back then, but doing it in the least user-friendly and most confusing way.

PnP is the perfect example of 1996 usermap bullshit. It's only a bit below average because they threw in some "cool ideas" like the Wipeout track, ideas that they found elsewhere, and which have an half-assed execution.


I'm not saying IM is the epitome of amazing level design, but you look pretty clueless by considering Prug'n'Pray the better thing.

>>4626038
>If anything Prug'n'Pray IS the thing that's "scatterbrained"
Subverting the player's expectations through the active usage of red herrings. In other words, stuff's not random, stuff's intentionally obfuscated and misleading, stuff's not nonsensical, stuff's intentionally made as unpredictable, as possible.

>>4626046
Yeah right, PnP is intentionally shit.

The level designer is actually one of the best there is, it's just that either he doesn't know it, or he uses vent textures on large ceilings only to hide the fact that he's good and to "keep the player on his toes".

why is this thread still up? not even retro

>>4626051
I don't consider it shit. It's a nice mind game. It's just the level parts THEMSELVES occasionally serve as red herrings, being deadlocks that don't look like deadlocks. And haphazard texturing actually works to emphasize "anything goes, be ready for anything" theme.
I would compare it to Doom/Quake's Petersen (which is somewhat more tame and more novelty-centered) and to early Carpenter movies, Precinct13/Halloween1/TheFog (in terms of expectation/trope-subversive quality).

>>4626015
I get what you're saying. The levels are technically brilliant, but they do feel like they're lacking in personality/flair a bit.

>>4626060
>It's just that the level parts THEMSELVES
>to Doom/Quake's Petersen's stuff

>Plug 'n Pray better than Ion Maiden

I guess it is if you love extremely tight corridors, Enforcer and Pigcop spam in said corridors and small rooms, required secrets that are near-impossible to figure out on your own, dead ends everywhere, lack of health, and no level details.

>>4626060
>And haphazard texturing actually works to emphasize "anything goes, be ready for anything" theme.
Or, simply put, "I AM LYING".

>>4626065
Would you manage to describe Ion Maiden's levels just as precisely?

>>4626060
>aphazard texturing actually works to emphasize "anything goes
>I would compare it to Carpenter

>be me
>have to make new episode by myself on a tight schedule and I never even opened Build before
>I don't have time for this shit, I'll use the the same texture for the ceiling and floor. in the next I'll use the light texture as ceiling as I don't have to build the lights. in the other room i'll use a vent texture as ceiling and the swing door will go all the way up to the ceiling because fuck it

>suddenly I'm genius on the level of Carpenter

>>4626075
See three Fuseball messages here:
>https://forums.duke4.net/topic/1271-duke-nukem-ps1/page__st__30
Especially, these quotes (considering original PC versions of Prug'n'Pray levels):
>Hell, I'd like to play it again myself!
>Pretty heartbreaking considering the effort we put into those levels.
>Especially something as important to me as the Duke stuff.

>>4625676
1. There's 2 opportunities to get the riot gun in level 1. In fact, the first level is extremely generous with equipment. Not that I'm complaining.
2. You are massively undervaluing the other weapons in the game. You seem to have omitted the existence of the uzi's entirely, even though they are the first gun that you receive. Uzi's are fast and powerful, and are easily a weapon you will use throughout a lot of the game, at least on most enemies. Another thing that you have omitted is the sword. In first-person shooters, there tends to be a rule that melee weapons are weak last resorts. In SW, the melee weapon is highly powered and fast, and is capable do serious damage. Even though it's a starting weapon, it remains balanced in most of the game, and you can slaughter the toughest enemies with it, once you learn how to use it. The missile launcher and grenade launcher could probably be argued as being more useful that the uzi's/riot gun. Missile launcher is very effective at dealing with the more stubborn enemy types, such as the rippers and coolies (which is an insta insta kill), plus it has add-ons, like the heat-seekers and warhead. The grenade launcher is a deadly aoe attack that can destroy groups of enemies like nothing, and can be angled into corners or difficulty places. Since there is usually and abundance of ammo for these weapons, they are always valuable. I could go on to mention other weapons and items, such as the gas grenade, or the incredibly overpowered smoke bomb, but I'm going to assume you haven't played enough to have an opinion on anything besides the shotgun.
3. Level 1 doesn't suck, you do.

>>4626092
What are you saying here? That he put a lot of effort into these maps?

I don't doubt it. It was 1996, the guy had to learn how the map editor and the game works, with very little help. It's not like nowadays when the editor is more user friendly and you can find a fuckton of tutorials online for everything.

So yeah, I don't doubt it took a lot of efforts. Doesn't change anything I said.

>>4626094
2. You misunderstood what I was saying. RiotGun, Rocket Launcher, Grenade Launcher and Rail Gun are the only 4 guns in the game I don't have any questions towards. They are convenient, more or less universal and reliable (even that way, riotgun doesn't allow you to gib, which is important because coolie ghosts, and explosives aren't usable in tight quarters, of which there are plenty; so there isn't a single gun you can rely upon in EVERY situation). Uzis are questionable because they burn through the entire ammo stash in a matter of seconds. THAT's what makes them highly situational. You point the wrong way, or you press the fire button a bit longer than you need, you spray a fat chunk of bullets into nothing. Melee in Build games just generally sucks (melee in Doom sucks as well, but for different reasons), compare sword-wielding in SW to, say, knife wielding in Turok1 and tell me, which one feels better.
I did complete the game on the last difficulty. Didn't play any of the addons.
And the first level, in my opinion, is one of the worst levels in the game.

>>4626105
Which leads me to my exact point on SW.
The weapons, by and large, are EXTREMELY quirky and, ultimately situational, there are just a couple of guns you can more or less use "generally", without any second thoughts, in MOST situations. And there is not a single gun you can more or less universally rely upon.

>>4626105
You can kill the ghosts immediately when they spawn with the sword.

>>4626068
Now, as for continuing this train of thought, cause, why the fuck not.
It all goes back to Doom's first episode and Romero using copious visual hints in order to convey towards the player where the player is supposed to go (both in terms of secrets and main progression route). That created a sort of environmental narration in his iconic shareware Doom episode, and it became level-design standard from that point on. In other words, after Doom shareware, a "proper" FPS level was supposed to use environmental "go here" hints, like, you know, modern "quest compass", only much subtler.

Those environmental "leadways" are the EXACT thing Prug'n'Pray author attacks and actively mocks. You know what. I didn't want to use the word because some wannabe-academia EnglishLit fuck could get a sudden itch in his pants and start spewing Derrida quotes in my general direction, but, fuck it, I call this very thing "deconstruction", since I currently simply don't have any other words in order to designate it. And I don't give no fucks about Derrida.

Anyway, the main point of Prug'n'Pray, the way I see it, is that author puts environmental visual cues in the spotlight by creating levels the intended progression through which is extremely noticeably different from what those wannabe-"cues" "hint" upon.

Plug n Pray maps are like Sandy Petersen's Doom maps. They have questionable aesthetics, some bad 90s trope puzzles, you love to hate them.

But at the same time they are highly memorable. Everyone who once played Containment Area in Doom or Nightmare Zone in Duke TM will remember them for their entire life. Missing 30 years and you will still remember every location and stupidity of the maps.

Even today, everyone who played it knows what Nightmare Zone, Gates Motel or Duke Royale stands for.

Ion Maiden? Good leveldesign, lots of work and lots of praise upon release. Will it have a cult following or maps, enemies, soundtracks or other stuff to remember? Like Duke Burger, will Shelly have his own fictional franchise? I doubt. Everything is about details and not character.

These kind of games get very positive feedback at first, but quickly turn into obscurity later on. Like many of the community maps for both Doom and Duke.

Devs should hire some pros for consulting the product. Maybe they should contact with George Broussard for example.

>>4626120
are you the Armond White of level design reviews?

>>4626119
It's easier not to let them spawn by gibbing coolies with explosives, rather than to camp over each dead coolie with the sword.

>>4626120
>Those environmental "leadways" are the EXACT thing Prug'n'Pray author attacks and actively mocks.

You're gonna have to find concrete examples if you want to back this up.

Ion Maiden level design has not been "amazing" so far. The first map we get gigantic areas, which often don't contain anything especially interesting. It's all fluff and padding. Is there anyone who didn't play through the office sections and think "oh, this is detailed, but ultimately nothing to see"? That's what a majority of it feels like. There are very many secrets to find, but it honestly doesn't amount to much. What you see is what you get. There are only a few enemies and items in the game so far. It feels extremely lacking at the moment. Perhaps, because it is an unfinished game this is fitting? In level 2 we get a very linear subway section that honestly started reminding me of early 2000's shooters. There's not much to say about this one.

>>4625762
The problem has to do with the software than your hardware, DN3D Megaton Edition also runs with awful stutters, but you can use EDuke32 for that but, the same cant be done for SWR

>>4626126
>Everything is about details and not character.
A question: if there is no character, no central theme, what's that, which is being detailed? At what point does the whole thing stop to be an oh so awesomely detailed, or realized, environment - and becomes just a junk heap of random stuff cobbled together because whatever? And is IonMaiden more of the first case - or more of the second one?

>>4626665
what a pile of shit

>>4626126
>>4626729
It does feel like IM lacks a hook. There's not really anything unique to it other than "new Build game". Shelly's pretty boring as a lead. The total replacement of hitscanners with fast projectiles is welcome and makes the combat feel a little novel, but it's not enough.

>>4626729
The levels look detailed and realistic, and nobody say it's junk. Just lacks character that you will remember 5 years from now.

>>4625705
those bees on higher difficulties are just fucking stupid. master leaps temple is riddled with the fuckers and they just tear you to shreds so annoying :s

what are these plug n play levels being discussed?

>>4627786
Exclusive episode of the PSX version of DN3D. Recently ported to PC.

http://www.moddb.com/mods/dntm/downloads

Have fun with this Carpenter level of genius.

>>4627756
>those bees on higher difficulties are just fucking stupid.
turn on auto aim and use your uzi, you're welcome

>>4617585
Ion Maiden seems to have "big" maps just for the sake of big. Too busy and overdesigned in my eyes.

>>4627853
>playing with autoaim

>>4627892
the game is designed with auto aim in mind you retard. you couldn't even turn it off in the original and you didn't even have mouse diagonals. you weren't expected to be aiming at individual mouse bees to kill them. but yeah go ahead and have fun with build's retarded mouse, sourceports or otherwise.

thanks

>>4627903
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzpndHtdl9A

>>4627163
Do you happen to have any objections to this
>heap of random stuff cobbled together because whatever
part as well?

>>4627959
>to have some objections
fix

Why exactly is Blood considered playable and basically made of win and awesomeness, while the Daikatana's Japanese episode in widely considered and unplayable abomination? I really fail to see any notable difference there. If anything, Daikatana's first episode has far better level-design at the very least. And both games are very much comparable in how punishing and generally uncomfortable to play they are.

If anything, Daikatana gets much better gameplay-wise in eps 2 and 3 (with 4, being a step back from 2/3, still being better than 1), while Blood stays exactly the same all the way throughout.

>>4627959
I didn't write that.

>>4626105
The Dual Uzi's are one of the highest DPS weapons in the game

About to play Ion Maiden preview. Will report back with impressions.

>>4627853
>>4627892
>>4627903
>not using your fists on the bees
fucking casuals. it's the only situation your fists are useful

>>4628612
Literally this
At least one guy gets it
<3 you, anon

>>4628558
Alright, just finished it.
Off the bat, the game crashed instantly both times I tried to run it in OpenGL, so I switched to Software which ran poorly but wasn't unplayable.

Technical problems aside, the weapons feel great, the maps and enemies are good, music is nice, art style is fantastic. They would have to really fuck things up between now and the release date for the full game to not be praised as a modern classic when it comes out. They definitely know what they're doing and it's not a retro nostalgia-grab like Strafe.

The shotgun (which looks like a grenade launcher) has a nice CHUNK to it.

>>4628620
>errmagerrd u play my toy the saem wai i wuv u anon <3
Pussy. Get some please.

>>4628725
Weird. Didn't really have any crashing. Only problem I had was slowdown in some areas.
I just want more weird weapons. At least like 1. Something eccentric.
>>4628734
Hey, fuck you anon.

>>4628737
no, he's right. you're such a pussy. go get some, get some real friends. who do you think you are, trying to act all civil, decent and friendly here? DON'T YOU KNOW YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO ACT LIKE A PIECE OF SHIT IN FOUR CHAN? THIS IS HOW WE ROLL ETC shit I hate the "anon durrrrrr" culture

>>4628737
Personally, I don't like my weapons too weird. I just like a good bullet-based weapon that feels nice to fire. They say the weapons in IM will have alternate fire modes in the full version, so that might spice things up.

>>4628725
The secrets are also pretty good. It's less "press E everywhere until you find something" and more puzzle-like. You look around a room and see set pieces that look like they might lead somewhere, and may require some jumping and/or thinking outside the box.

Pic is a secret I didn't get on my first playthrough, then went back and realized how to get it. Pretty cool.

>>4620626
Just finished and noticed that the different types of armor will change the color of her collar. Thought that was a pretty cool little detail they added.

>>4618601
i like to think the original pic is more tongue in cheek since the only modern FPS i can think of that are like 2010 is call of duty. but i don't doubt that there are people here who actually believe this.

>>4629268
For a time, virtually every FPS coming out was modeled after CoD

>>4628842
>secret hidden behind a bookshelf with a specific book to trigger opening

I'm currently playing Death Wish and I can't figure out how to read a tome, I tried all keys on the keyboard. Any tips?

>>4629987
when you touch it you should automatically see the text in the top left corner. you don't have to activate it

>>4629987
If you don't see the text on top of the screen, then you probably have messages disabled.
They're pretty short, couple sentences max.

>>4629991
>>4629995
It turns out that messages were disabled, thanks.

Looking up and down in ion maiden makes my gpu have coil whine. What the fuck.

why are these niggers so loud

>>4630368

>niggers
>not being loud

Pick one

>>4630368
The octobrains I like being loud because you can hear them clearly and from several rooms away

Phantoms are loud to spook you

>>4626120
Why don't you just call it "subversion", or mocking like you already said. Playing with expectations is fine but hardly deconstruction.

Do you guys use any of the inventory weapons in Shadow Warrior? LIke stuff like flash bomb, gas bomb, caltrops, all that other shiet?

>>4630738
They are less of weapons and more of theatrics. Adhering to the theme, showing off, that sort of thing. That also concerns a large portion of SW's weapons. Some of the things there are Just Not Meant To Be Used, and just are there because they are cool to look at, they are meaningless in the context of actual gameplay.
That doesn't imply, that you can't in principle find a use for them. You very much can. But that won't make the game easier. What it will make it is actually harder and more cumbersome, since it would be necessary to create an opportunity for proper weapon usage prior to using it, and those opportunities, for some items or weapons, just don't arise all that naturally in the game, like, at all. In other words, some of SW's items or weapons just aren't all that USEful in the context of the course of natural progression through SW's campaign.

>>4630917
tl;dr: Some gadgets in SW are actual tools, some are just toys looking like tools.

>>4617846
It still uses the BUILD engine though

>>4630925
And DNF uses Unreal1 engine.

>>4630923
P.S. All the "roleplaying" stuff is more or less comprised of toys, all the more or less "out-of-character" gadgets are legit.

>>4630927

Unreal 2.5, actually.

>>4630937
Here they seem to state that it's a fork of UE2:
http://forums.3drealms.com/vb/showthread.php?p=669185
Either way, yes, it's post-2000.

doom wad with ion maiden assets when

>>4630964
unbased

>>4630738
>Flash bomb
I never really use them. I've found the affect to be very minimal.

>Caltrops
Very useless. I think these may have been more for multiplayer.

>Gas grenade
Can be useful, for sure. Drop one of these into an area with lots of tough guys to fuck them up.

>Smoke bomb
Almost like a portable semi-invincibility mode. Virtually nothing will hit you when you're using this. If you use this on the final boss you can win in 10 seconds.

>>4630738
Gas bomb can be useful, especially on higher difficulties. Basically clears a room out of enemies. Everything else is pretty useless though.
>>4630917
>That also concerns a large portion of SW's weapons. Some of the things there are Just Not Meant To Be Used
The main weapons all seem useful to me

>>4629317
not necessarily or at the very least not as on rails as most of the later CoD games post MW1 are.

nobody was complaining when half-life or medal of honor did the same kinda shit halo or CoD did.

>>4622889
>Just bitched about not being able to play game on ancient 32bit os
>"MUH GR8 OS"

Holy fucking shit

>>4631907
lel

>>4630738
All the inventory items in SW are useful.

Start playing the game on Hard / Katana start each map and you'll be using them.

The gas grenade is really great; use around corners with many enemies and just wait.

The smoke bomb that turns you semi-invisible also makes your fists OP as fuck. Nobody seems to know about this.

The only thing I barely use are caltrops because they do very little dmg.

>>4631996
>and just wait.

>>4631996
>also makes your fists OP as fuck. Nobody seems to know about this.
I can safely say that I didn't know that. Smoke is already OP anyway.

So, since Blum's levels still interest me, I got back to E2M1 and E2M4 and replayed them from pistolstart. Played the majority of E2M5 too, but stopped near the end of the level due to two mini-battlelords and having jack shit of ammo. Whatever, I'll find some missed secrets, not the point.

As I've said, Blum's mapping style still interests me greatly. Derelict interests me, DNF's leveldesign interests me (and discerning what it has in common with DN3D's), my outright repulsion towards Mirage Barrage interests me. And I wanted to replay Fusion Station for a long time too.

A funny though crossed my mind while playing Fusion Station.

Allen Blum seems to REALLY FUCKING HATE run button. There are very specific instances when you are supposed to use it, and, other then those, you are supposed to fucking WALK, to look around, to just, like, carefully circle around cover, (those chaingun-wielding lizards just scream "USE THE FUCKING COVER, DUMBASS" with their very presence). All the buttons you are meant to shoot are placed JUST below or JUST above of centered position while standing, and are an absolute pain in the ass to aim to from keyboard IF you have autorun enabled. Turn it off - and you, like, magically start hitting those buttons from the first try.

When you are walking, the dynamics of the game isn't all that different from DNF's. Well, it's still somewhat quicker, but not by much.

My impressions from DNF were similar. Level-design was linear, that's a given. But it was made in the specific way, AS IF to make you stumble into something at Every Fucking Step you take. To stop, to make you turn or look around, to take a step back behind THAT, yes, THAT specific cover. It was made Just So to make you TRUDGE through the environments, as if you are walking in a waist-high water.

From that standpoint it doesn't even matter if the level design is more or less sprawling, as in Duke3D, or HL-ish, as in DNF.
(cont)

>>4632846
What matters is that there is some more or less constant resistance you just feel, as you progress through the level, be it linear, or Doom-like.

Moreover, a considerable portion of his levels is sort of very tight on ammo. This makes you carefully aim, so that not to miss your shots, which, if you use keyboard for turn, means, yes, turning running mode off. This also makes you constantly on the lookout for secrets, as they contain ammo - and are almost - almost! - required in order to have enough to complete some levels.Those fucking drones are a pain as well. Preferable method of dealing with them? Baiting them to a closed door. More waiting.

I don't know what that point towards yet, but this does provide his levels, especially if you start WALKING through them, with a sort of gravity, weight, a sense of foreboding.

What to make of it, as of right now, I don't really know.

I recently got into Blood, and goddamn I am sad I missed it when it came out. It has aged fairly well I think, and the difficulty is intense on the harder modes but something about the game drives you to do your best. Maybe because it isn't as forgiving as modern vidya.

Overall though it is fun, balanced, and I think the devs actually gave a shit about what they were making. Also Blood shotgun beats DOOM 2's by far.

>>4628212
Fuck off Romero

>>4632846
I don't know man, seems like you're making a generality out of one DN3D map.

Occupied Territory is completely different for instance. It's all about big spaces with little cover.

Also yes that map is the hardest pistol start. Last time I did that on CGS I finished the last BLord with on my LAST pistol round, and there wasn't even a single round in the entire map left to shoot the switch to open the path to the secret exit. That was when knowing secrets too, but secrets in this map mostly give HP.
Also remember that originally you couldn't KICK slimers when they were eating your face, meaning more ammo use.

When you open the locked room with all the BLords in it ,you're going to want to draw a 1 or 2, one by one, out of the room; and then rush in to get the Devastator ammo inside while hoping you don't get mowed down on the way.

>>4617994
>supersharp and detailed garbage bag texture
>right next to ultra-low-res car
This is an inconsistent mess. It looks like they took a bunch of old textures, used them alongside some newer textures made just for this thing, and called it a day.

>>4633995
I don't even know what you're complaining about lol. Feels good to not be a nitpicking little angry virgin on 4chan.

>>4633995
the whole thing is an incoherent mess because of one sprite? okay... also, this is the same in other Build games.

>they took a bunch of old textures, used them alongside some newer textures

This is not the first time I hear this on /vr/, typical Doom-modder mentality who thinks everything is made by taking bits and pieces of ressources here and there to mash it up together.
They didn't "take" anything. They made it.

>>4632881
"It's not a bauble, I am PAID for this, you know!"
>It was made Just So to make you TRUDGE through the environments
And not so much trudge, as to WORK through the environments.

So, okay, here is the thing. Blum's leveldesigns from DN3D and original DNF are almost purely functional. Almost every element you see has a distinct purpose and is meant to affect player's behavior in a set, specific way. To the point where I seriously suspect, that the secrets in Blum's levels are not built in specifically in order to have a secret - and rather built AROUND some non-functional "slip-ups", unintended things, hackjobs Blum happened to like. Meaning, that his levels give me the impression, that he retroactively (through iterating his leveldesigns) finds usage for things that end up being purposeless and, as such, mere trinkets. So, you see, it ends up like this, it seems to me. If Blum likes what his unintended slip-up looks like, he iterates his level, like, building a secret around this slip-up or otherwise integrates it into the overall level, thus giving said slip-up a distinctive purpose (as if it was part of the initial concept all along). If Blum doesn't like it, he just cuts it out. In other words, he self-expresses, posing, masking it as just doing his job. Thing is, there are people who are paid to self-express, and those people are called "artists". And what Blum primarily expresses through his levels is that he doesn't consider himself an artist (even though he clearly is).

There seems to be a substitution of "benefit" and "worth" here. Being a part of an entertainment product, a level doesn't really give the player any benefit. And however much Blum makes player work for reaching the auto-destruct button, player ultimately isn't really paid for it in anything other than impressions and, thus, memories. The constructs Blum creates aren't even material and can't, in principle - and certainly not allowed to players~
(cont)

>>4634572
- to be repurposed for anything outside of their intended purpose in the context of the game. There is no EVIDENCE of either Blum, or player producing anything TANGIBLE during their acts of, respectively, creating Duke's level and playing through Duke's level. And yet, the results of Blum's efforts allow different people to have experiences similar enough, so that they can not only talk about it, but also to come to agreement about what those experiences were. Meaning, results of Blum's efforts are definitely REAL, even if IMMATERIAL. In other words, they are IMAGES of some things or others, but they are no ILLUSIONS.

>>4634582
>but they are no ILLUSIONS
Even though those audiovisual representations are not the material things they represent.

How do I play blood? What's the best way?

>>4634985
DOSbox, there is no other way.

>>4628725
>The shotgun (which looks like a grenade launcher)

To the point that it even has a flip-up grenade launching sight on the end of it.

I'm honestly thinking they don't have the shotgun sprites ready and they've just decided go with the grenade launcher sprites for the demo.

Either that or they're going to be cheeky and use the same sprite for the grenade launcher and shotgun and just change the red band on the ammo and say that it's a grenade launcher that also fires giant shotgun shells.

Perhaps I'm wrong and this is what they think a drum-fed shotgun looks like.

>>4635114
I heard a rumor that the shotgun's alt fire will shoot those bowling bombs

>>4634985
BloodGDX. Other guy is a homo.

>>4632846
I don't care for DNF, but Blum's DN3D maps are so godly, they didn't lose any charm during these years. Hollywood Holocaust, Death Row, Spaceport, Fusion Station, Dark Side, Freeway, Duke Burger, fucking Derelict are all masterpieces. Blum's episode 5 maps, particularly Mirage Barrage and Golden Carnage are awesome too. I'm not sure what made these maps so great.

The only other classic designer who had the same quality is Romero in Doom/Doom 2.

>>4633934
Occupied Territory is great, but that jetpack should have been allowed in single player, as important secret can't be reached without it. It had RPG ammo and atomic health, pretty much the most important items for that level. For this reason I edited the map with simply removing the palette from jetpack.

The one Blum map I'm not too fond of strangely is Red Light District for some reason. Sure it had those strippers which gave Duke the fame, but the level is not as intuitive Hollywood Holocaust, Death Row or even Toxic Dump.

Blood is too hard. I keep getting instagibbed by those dumb monks. I tried everything like circle strafing and looking for additional medkits but I can't beat them

>Bombshell is a sequel
>Beautiful Shelly is going to turn into that thing
I don't like it.
Not at all.

>>4635496
If you have shotgun or tommy gun, just shoot them. They get stunned and can't shoot back. If there's several in the room, pop in and out and pick them off.

If you only have flare gun, shoot flare and then get out of line of sight until they burn to death, then continue.

Blood's leveldesign is also meh. The first four levels are kinda good, Dark Carnival is in fact great, but after that the Overlooked hotel and The haunting are the only ones worth playing. Maybe The siege for the atmosphere. Rest is just shit.

>>4636027
Cryptic Passage has the best levels in the entire game.

>>4635320
Red Light District is one of the worst maps. It's not as interconnected, it's squarish and un-impressive, and the only thing it has going for it are a sucession of cool set pieces.
Also fuck the striper room and the fact that you have to go through a secret place. I wish I knew what the fuck happened there.

>>4635496
Don't play on skill 1 or 2. Play on skill 3 or 4, so 3 for a first play. On skill 1 and 2, load a save during a map, and enemies will deal a lot more dmg than they should.
Also, be creative with weapons, try different weapons against different enemies/situations, try the alt-fires, and find out what works best in which situations.

>>4636027
This is what I used to think too, but since then I've learnt otherwise. The shareware episode is the most realistic and the most detailed, so at first sight they seem the best, but after playing again and playing I came to realize Blood's greatness came from how they masterfully crafted gunplay and level design together.

In that regard the first episode is weaker, mostly because it revolves way too much around cultists, while other eps gradually introduce new gameplay elements, to the point that I think the last 2 are the bests.
One of my favourite map is Public Storage, and yet it's thematically un-inspired (warehouse filled with boxes).

>>4636329
CP has some solid layouts and cool level themes; but to me it feels like the devs failed to grasp Blood's gameplay.
Enemy placement feels like they still thought they were making a DN3D add-on, weapons given to the player for various situations are un-inspired; and because that doesn't quite work, and they knew it, and also probably because they sucked at this game they didn't quite get, there is a fuckton of healing items. I swear to god some maps have 3-5 Life Seeds in them.

>>4636382
whaaa? RDL is one of my favourite maps in the game. It's got such great gameplay/flow. always have a lot of fun playing through it. great music, too, and it's one of the most memorable maps because of the famous strippers.

>>4636329
CP is very good but comparatively it's very mediocre compared to the original maps, including Postmortem expansion (which is actually amazing). Don't get me wrong it's still a lot of fun and I like it a lot (8/10), but no way is it the best. NESfag 100% spot on.

>>4636746
>NESfag 100% spot on.
*Well, 85% spot on. I love E1 and think it's the highlight of the game along with E5 Postmortem. Then E2, then E3 and E4 about the same. All great though.

Build2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qtmkkdND6M

>>4635003
>>4635015
I hope you're enjoying my mod

>>4635114
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M576_40mm_grenade

40mm shotgun shells are a thing

>>4636932
I got back to playing it again after completing only the first two missions a year ago and so far it's been pretty gut. Hyped for episode 3 too, James

>>4636735
Well, ranking of episode 1, I would go with:

Death Row > Hollywood Holocaust > The Abyss > Toxic Dump > Red Light District > Launch Facility

>>4637005
cheers, there's been a shitload of fixes and improvements so ep3 will hopefully be the best yet.

>tfw tired of making Doom maps but too stupid to learn BUILD

>>4635015
what mod is this mate?

>>4637153
It's from AMC TC

>>4637164
>AMC TC
Thanks, you are a good lad

>>4637024
For me it's
Hollywood Holocaust > RLD > The Abyss > Launch Facility > Toxic Dump

>>4637169
Have fun with the mod, anon, it's great

>>4637184
oops forgot death row

HH > RLD > The Abyss > Launch Facility > Death Row > Toxic Dump

>>4637205
wrong list

>>4637184
when I was a kid I thought this was the most adult, perverted game ever because of the strippers

>>4637206
it's just an opinion. dont cry too much anon.

>>4637123
What is hard about using BUILD?

>>4637210
I guess you are a city fag and hate episode 2 and maps like Derelict. Am I right?

>>4637291
Have no idea how you came to that conclusion as I love E2. You're fucking retarded bro.

>>4637184
>killing the hockers
Why.

>>4625868
Mmhmm, I agree
>sips wine
Ion Maiden's levels are exorbitantly intricate
>adjusts monocle
and needlessly heterogeneous
>polishes top-hat
unlike us old school duke nukem connoisseurs who have only the best tastes in maps
>plays the same slaughterwad for the fiftieth time.

>>4635616
I don't mind the Bombshell design.
>pic related
The original one was fucking shit, but that one is not bad.

>>4636862
are there still doubts about how Ken silverman was and still is one of the greatest 3d programmers ever known in the PC gaming scene?

I found the DL link, here:
http://advsys.net/ken/buildsrc/build2.htm

Has anyone tried out the demo for Hectic Realms? It's apparently based on WG Realms 2 which has piqued my interest.

i never got why lee jackson threw out that really cool part of grabbag
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvbYv2e7oCw
starts at 1:00

>>4637686
Killing them spawns more monsters to kill. Your kill count will never be optimum if you spare the sluts.

Just finished Blood. Is there more content? Expansions? Mods?

>>4637943
I'm eh about the whole thing
it's the sidecut.

>>4638149
Play Death Wish now. It's an amazing mod.

>>4637686
accident

>>4638143
thats on DIG difficulty desu

>>4638149
Did you play the Plasma Pak expansion's Episode 5? Did you play the Cryptic Passage expansion?

Both are very good.

>>4638149
Death Wish, French Meat and CWHHROT are great.

Whats a good ISA or VLB GPU for duke3d? running at literally 13fps here on a CL5429.

>>4617746
Doom Wads aren't retro.

Anyone know how to run cryptic passage and plasma pak in bloodgdx?

>>4639232
For the cryptic passage choose 'cryptic.ini' in user content.
Plasma pak (or Post Mortem) is available in the list of episodes, at least if you use GOG version of Blood.

>>4637983

It's a well-known fact that Silverman wasn't a Carmack in terms of coding efficiencies. The Blood guys even complained about how he built Blood during its development. The guy could push some great stuff on DOS back in the day, but master coder he was not.

Silverman's coding inefficiencies is one of the reasons why Eduke32 doesn't have half-decent MP and likely why Duke can still get smashed by some corners, even in Eduke32.

>>4640338
>It's a well-known fact that Silverman wasn't a Carmack in terms of coding efficiencies.
>Silverman's coding inefficiencies is one of the reasons why [...] Duke can still get smashed by some corners

It's a lot easier to make something efficient when that thing is simple. Doom and Quake engine are all about "keep it as simple as possible", Build is all about "add as much cool shit as you can".
The more you add, the harder it is to make it as efficient as possible, and the harder it is to keep it glitch free because shit that can happen is exponential with each thing you add.

Quake is solid, sure, but it barely even has any effect in it. How many different type of doors do you have? How many effects that include making the geometry move? So yeah, there is not really a reason to ever get crushed.

>The Blood guys even complained about how he built Blood during its development.

For one thing: you're confused here. Silverman didn't build Blood. He didn't build Duke Nukem 3D, or any other Build game.

Silverman built Build: the general base which is designed in such a way that each dev can come insert his game-code into it. It's literaly designed so he doesn't to be there for each dev using the engine, even if those devs don't have the source.

In the case of that e-mail from the Blood dev team: before taking anything you read for granted, at least ask yourself what the circumstances were and what the other party's response would have been, before starting to fill in the blanks yourself.

Silverman wasn't part of any game dev team. He was being paid so people could use his engine, and in the case of 3DRealms games he made himself available to assist them in understand in how it works. He wasn't there to change the engine to each dev's whim.

>>4640409
To me, from that e-mail, it looks like the complains and inqueries of the Blood dev team to Silverman, were outside of the scope of Silverman's role to the Blood dev team at the time. They just had someone to complain to, so they complained.

>Silverman's coding inefficiencies is one of the reasons why Eduke32 doesn't have half-decent MP

Build games had online; but it's an old system based on recording and recreating other players inputs. Plenty of small things could make it go out of sync even at the time.... so now, with time, the more stuff you add, the more reasons this system has to break.

also forgot to mention
>and likely why Duke can still get smashed by some corners

With all the possible moving geometry, something has to happen to the player if at at some point he ends up with not enough space to even be there. Now see, any small corner where you get crushed, that's because the mapper didn't live enough space. Doors: they push the player, if you get crushed, it's because there is nowhere to be pushed to, or at least, it's built in such a way that the engine thinks there is nowhere to push the player to. In the vast majority of cases it could be avoided if built differently.

Modern maps and mods have a much higher level of detail, so plenty of small sectors and shit and effects used in ways not intended to begin with, again, it's only exponential.

>>4639030
>a good ISA or VLB GPU for duke3d

Full retard. Duke3D doesn't use that kind of hardware acceleration. While it does kind of have several optimizations, it's only for specific chipsets, which aren't even referenced in the setup application and have to be enabled manually on duke3d.cfg

Just lower the resolution/detail or get a Pentium class CPU.

>>4640669
Ok figured I was on the wrong box I'll use the Pentium for Build games then.

>>4640338
Have you ever taken a look at the source code? Where are these "coding inefficiencies" you speak of?

>>4638149
Play Episode 5
Then: Inherit the Earth, Hostile Takeover and Death Wish

build editing tools kinda suck

Any news on Deadly Kiss? Is it still being worked on? It's been years bros.

>>4642315
is this like batman where they make female counterparts to all the villains to serve as girlfriends

>>4642315
It will never be released. There is not much content they've managed to found to begin with, so basically, they'll have to make a lot of stuff completely from scratch. And now, when they are busy making IM, I don't think they care about some free addon.

>>4642315
What was it? Looks like Shadow Warrior

>>4642843
i think it's an expansion where you play as lo wang's sister, no wang

>>4642906
Sounds badass. Hope it re-emerges at some point

Ion Maiden is actually pretty smooth, now. Framerate wise

>>4638065
I think it was because it didn't sound that cool on some sound formats at the time. In particular Gravis Ultrasound.

My biggest complaint playing through Ion Maiden is that the one liners are terrible.
This is a stupid thing to fault it on but they're literally the worst. Duke and Wang's jokes weren't great but they were above sub-dad-tier jokes like this.

>>4643735
>stupid thing to fault it on but they're literally the worst. Duke and Wang's jokes weren't great
The only one that grated on me was the 'domo arigato' line, because its A) way too long and B) way too on the nose. 'Clean up on aisle YOUR ASS' is fucking great though.

>>4643742
It's the exact opposite for me. I hate the delivery on that line, it sounds fairly awkward.

How do I get Duke Nukem in eduke to have skewing when looking up and down like in the original version

So after playing through Duke, I found that eduke32 can't also play Blood and Shadow Warrior.

What's the best way to play these?

>>4643956
Play in software mode.

>>4643998
>SW
https://github.com/Hendricks266/SWP/releases
>Blood
There's no "real" source port, BloodGDX is pretty close to the real game though.
http://m210.duke4.net/

>>4644074
Thanks

Played through Plug n Prey, I found the first level to be the best one here, don't understand the hate now.

>>4643735
I'm totally in love with Shelly's voice and how she delivers her lines, but yeah. Some of them are kindergarten tier. Her expressions of surprise are much more rewarding.

IMO she's also one of the cutest characters I've ever played as.

>>4643735
>>4643742
yeah im not really feeling the one liners either. i think its partly the delivery? but the lines themselves the domo arigato one is just kind of annoying but i wouldnt say for being on the nose it just cheeses me off a little :/ just seems sort of like why would you say that?

>>4643735
Shelly's got no character. All the lines are just generic action hero stuff or jokes about the enemies being robots.

>>4617746
Eat a fat one.

>>4644074
Thank you, but why is it so dark. Duke Nukem wasnt this dark when I was a kid

>>4645118
Lo Wang has no character. All his jokes are about him being a Chinese or about his dick.

I wanted to replay the game but i don't find my old version anymore.
I checked gog but.. it seems they removed duke nukem from their site (wat?).
Is the 20th anniversary world tour edition on steam worth it?

>>4645980
If Lo doesn't have character, how did they get this interview with him? http://legacy.3drealms.com/sw/lowang.html

The cutscenes aren't playing in the GOG version of Blood, does anyone know if it's possible to fix?

>>4646078
Just fucking pirate it, dont give money to Randy Bitchford.

>>4646260
delete old config and letit generate new one. helped me.

>>4646374
Nah I tried but it didn't worked but I finally figured out; I opened the game.gog file as an iso, extracted the movie folder into the game directory, edited the blood.ini file by deleting the virtual drive target "D:" after each CutSceneA/B= and CutWavA/B= and now it works perfectly

>>4644074
>Hendricks266
is it that guy who goes around claiming that his port of evry build game including Blood, WH, etc. would be vastly superior to whatever GDX guy does, but after all this time still has nothing to show for it?

>>4643735
Do you want to wash Wang, or do you want to watch Wang wash wang?

>>4646398
Also I should clarify that I deleted the .ogg files to play with the MIDI soundtrack, but even when they were there the cutscenes wouldn't work except for the first one in Episode 1

is anybody else not as much of a fan of The Birth as other Duke episodes?
everytime I replay the game I find myself less motivated to play that episode
I blame Randy's level design

>>4646110
Generic action hero lines, a cliche quirky Chinese insult, and jokes about weapons. Okay, so far Lo Wang's character is "I'm a Chinese dude with a dick who likes ancient weapons". I'll concede - it's an improvement, but a slight one.

>>4646561
I only dislike The Queen, what an annoying ass level

>>4646561
The Birth fucking sucks.

E1 > E2 > E5 > E3 > E4

Only bad episode is 4. I hate that episode.

>>4646585
If Lo doesn't have character, how did they write two books about him? http://legacy.3drealms.com/sw/bookteaser.html

>>4646908
>E5 > E3

*audible groan*

>>4646963
I have the second book, but not the first.

The plot is an evil scientist wants to recreate Pangaea so he develops technology that moves the continents towards each other at high speed. The finale takes place in Uluru rock.

>>4645980
>>4646585
Lo Wang isn't Chinese, he's "Asian."

Will they going to release a Ion Maiden demo?

>>4647428
they did

it's a paid demo, though, which kind of defeats the purpose

>>4647428
The early access 1 hour "mini-campaign" basically is the demo - I believe it won't be part of the proper campaign, like Shadow Warrior and ROTT's shareware. Except you gotta pay 18 bucks for it. You might as well pirate it.

>>4647036
Is it as trashy as the chapter 3d realms showed is?

>>4647027
You're a hopeless pleb but don't worry you've come to the right board.

>>4646403
Yep. Emperor Douche Himself.

100%'d ion maiden preview
really good and will be even better when it's fleshed out a bit more but the performance is horrendous in some areas and some secrets i'm not a fan of (armour on the pillar in second map)
I kinda wish it was harder in general too
>>4621148
lmao Doom 4 is horseshit

>Laputan Machine
heh

>>4619308
Im guessing since you dont even get the chaingun until the last second, episode 2 will have some tough chaingun bots like the big lizardmen in Lunar Apocalypse.

I think the red enemies weapon should be buffed. In Duke Nukem if you just move around without thinking you will still get hit by the basic lizardman projectile attack but the red guys in Ion Maiden cant hit you unless you stand still for 5 seconds. I also think that similar to how Duke Nukem has the basic lizardman and the teleporting lizardman, there should be a variant of Ion Maiden's basic enemy with a cloaking device

>>4626120
Thats not what deconstruction is, fuckface

>>4647762
What does that writing on the wall say? I can't quite make it out.

>>4646908
is Alien World Order honestly worth getting?
I mean I know it's not worth $20 but on sale is it worth it?
I've just heard from many anons that Levellord and Blum's return to Duke was mediocre

>>4648168
Not him but it's great. Blum definitely steals the show though in episode 5, his levels were much better.

>>4648132

>>4647443
Yes. it's so fucking bizarre that these were actually written and published. I still want to read the first one, because it's just fucking insane but still.

>>4648253
you got to hit the red switch by the exit elevator first though, if anybody wants to check this out for themselves

>>4648258
ye it's a tricky secret actually not listed as a secret either

>>4648168
It's not worth paying 20$ especially since it doesn't contain the expansions, and this port just utter shit it's just the exact same port released for consoles, if you really want to play Alien World Order pirate it

Ion Maiden is fucking sick. Really looking forward to the rest of the episodes. Ms. Bombshell herself is also a fun character.

>>4648168
Only 2 levels really stand out, although the rest is okay. Apart from those 2 levels, most of the episode suffer from 'usermap syndromes' and have the same flaws as your typical usermaps (static scenery, decorative doors, invisible walls, etc), however they have much better gameplay than your standard usermaps.

I thought it was worth the 20 bucks anyway. Up to you.

>>4648307
>The port is utter shit

I keep hearing this but without any factual reason to back it up. WT is a much better port than Megaton, it's less glitchy, it has actual widescreen support (Megaton's widescreen was a zoom in), you can play using the original 2.5D renderer, they fixed all the main complains 1 week after release, etc etc

I get it, it's cool to hate Gearbox, and I'm not a Gearbox fan either; however it's not a reason to be dishonest with this game

>>4648363
gearbox deserve the hate for charging twice the price megaton was and not including the expansions

>>4648168
Yes. If you're someone that can appreciate good gameplay E5 is amazing. Most of /vr/ doesn't understand good gameplay because their gameplay is shit so they'll call the maps shit and won't understand why they're great. E5 has some of the best gameplay (if not the best gameplay in all of Duke) in the whole game. Maybe I should say 'game' and 'gameplay' again because I clearly haven't said them enough so game and gameplay.

>>4648259
secret secret

>>4648363
My big issue with World Tour is the fucking weapon wheel that puts a few second delay on mouse wheeling through weapons, it can mean the difference between life and death in a pinch. You’re right to say it’s a better port than megaton though, megaton has fucking awful mouse acceleration that imo makes the game basically unplayable, and the “hi-res texture” filter is a fucking joke. However, it was an unarguable better deal since it was the only way to realistically get your hands out the three sunsoft expansions legally, and the group files worked with Eduke32- which World Tour’s new episode does not.

I think the hate on World Tour is a bit blown out of proportion, but it’s far from undeserving of criticism.

>>4648168
Blum's return was great, particularly with the Golden Gate and the pyramids, which are amazing and probably better than the original levels.

Levelord is nothing special, has never been actually, he is to Blum is like Petersen is to Romero.

>>4648559
>uses mouse wheel for weapon scrolling
>doesn't have custom key binds for instant weapon selection
Oh /vr/

>>4648585
>>4648559
Yeah, I didn't even see the wheel myself in WT. I use 1 to 6 directly, and for weapons 7 to 0 I use keys below WASD (Z,X,C,V)

>>4648596
>WASD
This blasphemy doesn't belong to /vr/.

>>4621159
Why did they design the game like that, and why does nearly no one point it out? Everyone said it was just like the original games but its a different thing entirely.

>>4647423
Then how does he know ancient chinese secret

>>4643742
The line would be better if it was just "domo arigato"

How was I supposed to get there without a jetpack?

>>4648872
You're not. If you try the jump you'll fall to a ledge below which has a jetpack.

WitchavenGDX is out if anyone even gives a shit about this game.

Am I the only one who think Fusion Station is a bloody awesome level? The second best after Dark Side in episode 2.

>>4648982
I love it, its level design is more y-axis based than any Quake map. It really shows the potential of Build for the time; although it would have been better if ALL areas were actual Sector over Sector, as iirc there is at least one area which uses elevators to teleport you on another X/Y plane. Would probably end up with teleporting glitches up the ass if that was the case though.

In the Saturn port, which uses a true 3D engine, they had to heavily tone down the map and iirc even cut it in two. I love Slavedriver but this particular map is a perfect example of the pros of Build vs Quake/Slavedriver.

Is there any fix for the mouse acceleration in Megaton besides using Eduke?

What are some non euclidean Build maps?

>>4649049
i still don't understand how games that never had mouselook have better sourceport implementations than games that came with it (build games and marathon come to mind)

>>4649060
also is it me or is ion maiden's music kinda bland? i like how it uses .xm modules but that's it

>>4648974
Where?

>>4649029
Spaceport is also y axis based. Another great and underrated map of episode 2.

>>4649081
The entire ep2 is amazing. Out of the whole game it has the most crazy layouts, architecture and effects.

I'm always baffled when people call it generic. For me "generic" is a map like Movie Set.

>>4649073
Right on the authors webpage (WitchavenGDX Release v0.500). It's a beta test so stuff obviously won't work right.
http://m210.duke4.net/

>>4649090
shit, can't get it to work on my mac

>>4649082
>Movie Set
How that map got greenlighted by George is beyond me. The middle part of episode 3 is terrible (Movie Set, Tier Drops, Rabid Transit, Fahrenheit). Were they running out of time?

>>4649223
>Tier Drops, Rabid Transit, Fahrenheit
>bad

>>4649285
Tier Drops is alright.

Rabid Transit is fucking horrible.

Fahrenheit is bad. Feels like a shitty usermap.

Might be the wrong place to ask, but is there any benefit of Ken Silverman's map system over something like a BSP?

I've only played blood on lightly broiled, i've read that the higher difficulties don't apply correctly when loading saves/restarting maps. is this true? any good way to play the harder difficulties

>>4649069
The music in all the big Build games were pretty bland. I cant think of a single theme from Duke Nukem besides the title theme.

>>4649540
>he doesn't remember Stalker, Plasma and Taking Names

>>4649540
https://youtu.be/u3SBTQQ0GJ0

>>4649525
It works like this. If you load a save file on a level, then damage taken values will change as follows:

skill 1 --> skill 5
skill 2 --> skill 4
skill 3 --> skill 3
skill 4 --> skill 2
skill 5 --> skill 1

as you can see, easier difficulties switch to harder damage received values and vice versa. Only difficulty 3 is unaffected. however when you start a new level, the damage values will be reset back to normal. if you then reload a save the damage glitch will again happen. if you want the damage glitch not to happen, be a real man and don't die the whole episode and play through it in one sitting (or reload a save file that's made right before the next level begins as the damage will be reset upon starting the new level).

btw this doesn't necessarily mean that a loaded skill 2 game is harder than a loaded skill 4 game as there are other variables that make the game harder, like more enemies, the fact that they take more damage to die, and cultist accuracy also increases as the difficulty increases. the only thing that changes with the damage glitch is the damage that caleb takes from enemies.

btw bloodgdx fixes this glitch. if you dont want to deal with this glitch use gdx or play on skill 3 (lightly broiled)

>>4649565
oh yeah and i forgot this
>>4649568

>>4649569
oh i have bloodgdx, is the fix automatic

>>4648117
Fuck Right Off. I don't care about Derrida's drivel, and I don't intend to start caring regardless of whatever ANGRY WORDS you will or won't direct in my general direction. And I still need words to designate concepts I want to talk about.

I want more duke, are there any good duke games other then duke3d?

>>4648584
Nah, Petersen's counterpart is that guy who did Prug'n'Pray episode from PS1 version of Duke.

Levelord is more akin to that guy who made Quake's "ep5"/DOPA.

>>4648117
Also, you know what?
>Derrida's original use of the word "deconstruction" was a translation of Destruktion, a concept from the work of Martin Heidegger that Derrida sought to apply to textual reading.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruktion
Sounds similar enough to me. And Derrida can choke on his dick with his autofellative drivel on.

>>4649672
>And Derrida can choke on his dick with his autofellative drivel, as far as I'm concerned.
Fix.

>>4649578
yea

>>4649579
Derrida lives in your head, rent free

>>4649587
Not that guy, but why PnP gets so much hate? I've played through Nightmare Zone, and thought it's a fun and well designed map. The puzzles were annoying at first, now I know all of them by heart.

Just beat Episode 5 of DN3D for the first time. The new enemy sucked, and the flamethrower is maybe OP with how much ammo it has and how it can kill chaingunners in one shot. There's cool ideas and the levels do look really good and detailed, but all of the boss and mini-boss enemies everywhere reminded me what I didn't like about Duke 3D: so many enemies feel like bulletsponges, and fighting them just gets tedious unless you stuff them in one shot with explosives. Fighting a mob of enemies just ends up being shooting a bunch of RPGs or Devastator rockets into the crowd while jumping in figure 8s.

What did you guys think?

Those exploding robots in episode 2 and on in Duke Nukem are fucking cancer. Who thought it was a good idea to give them spider sense and be able to just dodge Devastator rockets

>>4650104
>thought it was a good idea to use the devastator on drones
One shot from anything stunlocks them. Use the machine gun for groups.

>>4650104
their weakness is supposed to be the chaingun because it can stunlock them, they usually give you a chaingun pickup before springing a trap kinda like doom gives you a chainsaw and pinky demons

>>4649325
At least Farenheit and Rabid Transit have some cool unique things to them, like the firestation, the radio station or the working subway system. Movie Set's entire theme is "let's re-use ep2 textures", and the only 'cool' thing going on is the helicopter crash at the start. Also it's very squarish


>>4649525
>>4649569
As far as I know skill4 isn't affected either.

>>4650052
I like the mini-Overlords and mini-Cycloids; but there is indeed too many bossfights; it's what I call one of the "usermap syndromes" that AWO suffers from, where they think that every map needs to end with a boss. The Cycloid fight at the end of Bloody Hell is particularly awful.

Bloody Hell is just fucking awful. You can forgive Prima Arena for being shit as its a secret map, and boss levels suck as well. But Bloody Hell is a regular map and it looks shit and doesnt remind me of classic mapping at all. The only good thing is the castle.

>>4650328
Bloody Hell is Pitchford's idea, and is entirely based on a sketch of his. The main problem with the map is that it's a succession of small places that don't fit together.

One thing it does well is the big fight in the gigantic outdoor area, it's really hard to make Duke enemies work in open areas, but it works rather well here.

>>4650337
>Bloody Hell is Pitchford's idea

I should have known. His maps in Episode 4 are awful too. Did this man make anything worthwhile in his life?

>>4650282
>As far as I know skill4 isn't affected either.
It is brah. That's what I heard too but then I tested it myself. Just start a new game on Well Done, save it, let the zombie hit you, then reload the save file and let him hit you again and you'll see the damage differential.

>>4649223
Yes - IIRC there's been a recent interview or something saying that those maps were literally Dukematch maps hastily converted to SP. I can't remember where I saw it so I understand if it smells like BS, but I promise I'm not making this shit up.

>>4649509
You can alter the map on the fly, basically. With Doom's BSP the map stuff is set in stone so whilst it runs and performs much better, it's also not really modifiable beyond simple stuff like raising and lowering platforms (at least until the more advances source ports started coming out)

Currently replaying all of SW + add-ons, the only correct way to play: No Pain No Gain - katana start and only allowing saves near possible environmental deaths.

Can we all agree that Twin Dragon is much better than Wanton Destruction? As much as I'm a Sunstorm fan, the more I play WD, the less I like its gameplay. The restaurant and airplane maps are the definition of cramped shit, only renderer worse by all the explosive enemies (coolies, grenades, rockets, shadow ninjas) in those cramped spaces

>>4650328
>You can forgive Prima Arena for being shit

Despite its flaws Prima Arena is one of my favourite maps in AWO. You should try the uncut version, it doesn't fix everything but it does make it better.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=781120926

>>4650339
>It's Impossible and Area 51 are now bad because Randy
Oh please.

>>4650506
>The restaurant and airplane maps are the definition of cramped shit
I wouldn't mind, but having explosive enemies in smaller environments can be too much. Plus, on the plane there's plenty of times where you can't see shit.

>>4650506
>Can we all agree that Twin Dragon is much better than Wanton Destruction?
Yes. Wanton had some great levels too and I love the concept of the airplane level but its execution is horrible. The ending was great, though, and I loved the transition to the next level.

>The restaurant...
Webm related, unfuckingacceptable. Literally no warning, just spawns in the second you open the door and bam, dead.

>>4650548
There is a trigger there so actually it's even worse, the door opens itself when you're near.

At least the coolie is stayput and can't leave the fridge.

>>4650548
>DAMN YOU

>>4650506
>Can we all agree that Twin Dragon is much better than Wanton Destruction?
No, Tokyo Rooftops and the airplane levels own everything from Twin Dragon. The secret forest map is also a lot more interesting than those levels.

What's the sudden hate for the airplane level? It was the reason Charlie Wiederhold got into 3DRealms.

>>4650506
Much prefer Wanton Destruction myself.

>>4650638
There's nothing fun about fighting dozens on hitscanners who can see you but you can't see them in rooms where you can barely move.

>>4650638
It's a technically impressive map that makes great use of the potential of Build and SW effects.

But it plays like shit.

>>4650631
I hate the invisible walls in the secret forest map. Also hate the senseless shit like the ending: you backtrack to a previous area but suddenly now there is an ending button there... Okay, I guess.

Both secret maps in WD feels like they were made "secrets" because they're the most raw, least polished maps, but still wanted to include them as a bonus.

Good Wanton Destruction Levels
>Chinatown
>Monastery
>Restaurant
>Airplane
>Train

Good Twin Dragon Levels
>Home Sweet Home
>City of Despair
>Emergency Room
>Silver Bullet
>Fishing Village
>Secret Garden
>Prison Camp
>Hung Lo's Palace

>>4650670
>>City of Despair

All those invisible landmines were really fun.