/vr/ - Retro Games

>>4575093
>This is, bar none, the best adventure game ever made.

sorry OP, i don't think that's how you spell "Majora's Mask"

I like this and majoras mask and masterquest. Never played the remakes.

It's also more fun with gameshark. Flying up and looking at the ground is beautiful.

>>4575102
>Majora's Mask
>4 shit dungeons
>tiny ass world with only the most obvious secrets
>tedious time limit
>recycled items and assets
>shit save system
>easiest game in the series next to WW
>chatty as fuck
>muh dark storyline
Yeah no.

>>4575115
MM was easier than OoT?

>>4575161
There are only 4 dungeons and each one has a piss easy boss, you have 6 fucking bottles, finding/buying supplies is easier than ever, you can hoard rupees, etc. The only thing that was "difficult" about it was the inherent repetition and being forced to talk to random characters to progress the storyline. The actual gameplay couldn't be easier. OoT wasn't exactly difficult either, but it at least had a few boss fights/puzzles that were mildly challenging.

>>4575093
I'd argue that it's THE best game of all time

>>4575318
I could never label any game "the" best because different genres bring completely different things to the table and aren't always comparable. However, it is certainly best of its kind. Pretty sad that 20 years later there still isn't a single game that has dethroned the king. I frequently see people who were too young to even have grown up with the game play it for the first time and still thoroughly enjoy it, which is not only uncommon for any older game, but a testament to how great it really is. Unfortunately I don't think we'll ever get a better game, because the adventure genre that once played host to games like Zelda, Beyond Oasis, Alundra, Medievil, etc., has now been absorbed by open world design and become inseparable from trash like Skyrim. I hope one day devs go back to basics and look at games like Ocarina of Time for inspiration in making quality, focused experiences.

There will always be contrarians. I'm sure somebody is copypasting your greentext and carefully arguing against each of your points in between the lines right now. These people have a need to hold an opinion opposite to the majority in order to feel special, just let them be.

>>4575346
Well said. As you implied, it seems like many on this board insist that anything mainstream can't be good, let alone the best. I legitimately think a lot of people are afraid to say they like games like OoT because they expect to be shitted on for it, as if you aren't a "real" gamer unless you only like obscure weebtrash or something. Then you've got the elitists who come in and tell you how your tastes are plebeian and that games like Zelda 1 / ALttP are the "real" Zelda. I honestly have to wonder how much you can legitimately like playing video games if you can't force yourself to enjoy this game.

The best adventure game is chess

>>4575403

>>4575093
-VERY easy game: easy combat, easy exploration, easy puzzles. Definitely not very engaging unless you are into babby games
-slow paced and with some empty areas; it has a bad quality/time ratio
-that frame rate is not acceptable at all, I don't care that the game is from 1998, we were used to 2D games playing smoothly, why settle for this shit
-pretty formulaic stuff, particularly inside the dungeons: look for the path that leads to keys (be them literal keys or the new item), then backtrack so you can use them to advance. Not very satisfying stuff, I'd say.

It's not a terrible game, just overpraised due to being babby's first game in a lot of cases. It does a good job in that regard, I guess, except that it isn't a game that leads into liking non-babby games later down the road but rather sticking with them, unlike say Batsugun Special Version which is also easy but can ease you to get into cooler stuff afterward.
>>4575335
It's a testament to how babby and modern in a bad way this game feels, more like.

Nes Zelda the best tho

>>4575432
>-VERY easy game: easy combat, easy exploration, easy puzzles. Definitely not very engaging unless you are into babby games
I've never seen anyone use the word "babby" who wasn't legitimately retarded so you're off to a great start.
>-slow paced and with some empty areas; it has a bad quality/time ratio
Slow paced? It's probably one of the quickest, best paced games in the series. Within minutes of the game starting you're already exploring for a sword and shield and then right off to the first dungeon. And what empty areas are you talking about? The only "empty" area is Hyrule Field which has about a dozen secret areas to find, poes to hunt, and primarily serves as a hub to access other areas anyway.
>-that frame rate is not acceptable at all, I don't care that the game is from 1998, we were used to 2D games playing smoothly, why settle for this shit
Bullshit. I have never once been playing this game and suddenly been removed from the experience because of a locked 20fps. If this kind of thing bothers you, go play Overwatch.
>-pretty formulaic stuff, particularly inside the dungeons: look for the path that leads to keys (be them literal keys or the new item), then backtrack so you can use them to advance. Not very satisfying stuff, I'd say.
A retarded oversimplification which could be similarly applied to basically every game in the series and most games in general. If anything OoT is one of the less formulaic Zelda games.
>It's not a terrible game, just overpraised due to being babby's first game in a lot of cases. It does a good job in that regard, I guess, except that it isn't a game that leads into liking non-babby games later down the road but rather sticking with them, unlike say Batsugun Special Version which is also easy but can ease you to get into cooler stuff afterward.
Lmao, now it all makes sense. You're a typical retarded shmup player who thinks any game which doesn't require autistic devotion is "babby". Nah, it's called having fun.

>>4575432
>Batsugun Special Version
why is everybody who plays shmups such an insufferable faggot with terrible taste and the social skills of a salted lemon?

>>4575093
I had a unique experience with OoT. I never could get into it when I was a kid/teen, but a couple months ago something inspired me to go ahead and try to play through it and I immediately got hooked. Within a couple weeks I'd finished the game and moved on to MM.

As a disclaimer, OoT was my first Zelda game, but I definitely couldn't help but feel like I'd finally found the game I'd been wanting to play forever. After OoT I ran through MM and ended up buying a switch just for BOTW (which I also enjoyed), but even that honestly didn't compare to OoT. OoT was just engrossing all the way through, there's really no other way to describe it. I knew a bit about the story beforehand (child -> adult progression, ganon being the antagonist, etc), yet the game manages to be deep enough that you still get engaged with the story despite knowing how it ends.

I think the most important thing to keep in mind when trying to determine just how good this game is is the fact that it was made in '97-'98. 3D was still totally new and every development team was still trying to figure out how to actually handle 3D game design. And look at what they came up with. Z-Targeting? Still relevant in BOTW. Multifunction action buttons? Still relevant 20 years on. Things that seem extremely basic in adventure games now had to originate somewhere, and in so many cases OoT is the game where these concepts originated.

TL;DR OoT is still fucking amazing, and that's coming from someone with 0 nostalgia for the game.

Oh, and in case anyone's curious, I played through on v1.1 on original hardware

>>4575115
>only list positive points for my side of the argument
>only list negative points of your side
Great meme OP, excellent thread.

>>4575441
Why the vitriol and repeated use of "retard"? He's only sharing his opinion, though I may disagree with it being a sound one. Babby is just an old /v/ term for insinuating the game's entry is akin to a baby's skill level. He's using it right or at least he believe he is. And you're kinda admitting it by suggesting OoT doesn't demand any devotion to be good at. Anyways, my point is it's difficult to follow you with all the hyperboles and ad hominems. Tone it down unless someone is attacking you first. It'll work wonders for your mental health.

>>4575560
>Anyways, my point is it's difficult to follow you with all the hyperboles and ad hominems.
>calling someone a retard makes an argument "difficult to follow"
Rarely do I see someone on this board actually admit to being autistic. Interesting.

>>4575335
>I don't think we'll ever get a better game
A link to the past is. 3D fags are used to ignore everything that doesn't require polygons to render. Sadly great games were absorved by 3D design.

>>4575102
Time limit stress me, I don't want to be stressed by a Zelda game...

>>4575495
>Z-Targeting?
MML
>Multifunction action buttons?
jrpgs

Okami is the best Zelda game by far, and if you disagree you are only doing so out of nostalgia.

>>4575667
>liking this queer furfag shit instead of the GOAT OoT

>>4575115
>bad opinions
Pass.

OP your post was pretty good until
>This is, bar none, the best adventure game ever made.

>>4575579
Not sure how many times it has to be mentioned but the targeting system in MML is very different to the one in OoT

>>4575838
Name a better adventure game then.

>>4575860
The graphics are also different.

>>4575870
I can't, because OoT is, in my mind, in the 'best-tier' of adventure games, I just would never claim a game is THE best particular game. Just in the Zelda series alone there are several games many will argue are better adventure games than OoT. I think the most you can do is group games into tiers of quality. When you try to rank them individually you're mostly talking about differences that aren't better or worse and which often come down to preference.
>>4575445
Don't let him give you a bad impression of the game. It's possible to love both OoT and Batsugun.

>>4575875
>Just in the Zelda series alone there are several games many will argue are better adventure games than OoT.
Plenty of people will argue anything, but I asked you personally: name me a better one. If you can't, the proof is in the pudding. I mean, aside from personal input, it's literally the most highly rated game of all time. If it doesn't qualify for best adventure game, I don't think anything does.

>>4575887
Don't you get my point? I can't really name a strictly 'better' adventure game, but I can't really name one better than Link to the Past either. Do you see what I'm saying?

>>4575913
I guess you just like a bunch of games equally, which would be bizarre for me because I don't think I've ever liked two games of the same genre so much that I couldn't pick between one or the other given the chance.

>>4575929
I never said that I liked them equally. My favorite game isn't necessarily the best game, you know?

>>4575093
like it or not, this game was fucking impressive when it first came out. it felt "special" in a way that few games have since ... just this sense that the world therein, however limited, was alive and immersive in a way I had never experienced before. then a few months after finishing it I acquired a PlayStation bundled with FFVII and my life was changed forever

both games remind me of a better time before everything went to shit

>>4575952
>FFVII and my life was changed forever
>literally inseparable from an NES JRPG aside from 3D models
>life changing

>>4575960
VII was the first Final Fantasy game to be published in the UK, and hence the first I had ever played. are you going to do some more more meme arrows now?

>>4575960
VII was the first Final Fantasy game to be published in the UK, and hence the first I had ever played. are you going to do some more meme arrows now?

>>4575952
>just this sense that the world therein, however limited, was alive and immersive in a way I had never experienced before.
One of the key things about Zelda games is you can always intereact with everything you see. In most games you often see buildings that you can't enter (think GTA as an example), decoration areas blocked off by invisible walls that don't really have anything, etc. "wouldn't it be cool if you could.." Zelda is the game where you usually can. I think a lot of games pad their worlds with filler you can't interact with because the designers fear the unrealistically small size of a game world will break immersion, but you barely notice that Kakariko Village only has enough buildings for like 7 people when you're playing. the fact that every little spot in the world can be played with maeks it feel living. And that's not an OoT thing specifically, that's Zelda in general.

>>4575970
I just don't understand how you can play a game with this giant world filled with interactivity and secrets and then play some faggoty anime JRPG with boring turn-based combat and pre-rendered backgrounds and be impressed by it. I guess you're just really fucking stupid or something.

>>4575982
Not sure what just happened but meant for >>4575975

>>4575982
>I don't understand why you like a thing that I don't like
it doesn't matter anon. I'm stupid and you're the king

>>4575993
>it doesn't matter anon. I'm stupid and you're the king
I guess so, because I was fucking 7-8 years old when both of these games were out, owned both, and I was still intelligent enough to see how much cooler a fully interactive 3D world was than a standard JRPG even back then.

>>4576000
where did I state or imply that OOT was less "cool" than FFVII? I guess intelligence doesn't guarantee reading comprehension

>>4576025
Wow, sorry, I guess I assumed that when you said it fucking changed your life that you might consider it "cooler" you stupid fuck.

>>4575093
One of the most overrated games of all time. Accept that people have differing opinions to your fanboy self.

>>4576025
sorry anon I didn't mean to imply you have poor reading comprehension ... I'm autistic and not very good at interacting with people. I'll leave this thread and go back to playing Mega Drive platformers

>>4575093
I always support this game. It blew my mind when it came out (I was 12 and it was my first 3D game), but I've tried to replay it objectively in recent years, and it STILL impresses me. I don't think I realized how good of a game it was until I marathoned it in a single day. It's one of the last Zelda games where you're not held by the hand. While the game is linear, it also doesn't get in your way. There are only a handful of unskippable cutscenes, and they're pretty fucking short, so I don't understand how people complain about them. If you want to just make a beeline from objective to objective, the game doesn't hinder you, but if you wanna take time to slow down and explore, and do sidequests and mini-games, you're rewarded for your efforts. Game has minimal filler, and while it's not super-hard or anything, it's always engaging.

>>4575102
Majora's Mask is pretty fuckin' based. I often cannot decide whether or not it's better than OoT, myself. It's impressive how different they feel from each other despite being made entirely of the same nuts and bolts.

>>4576046
Don't worry I completely accept the fact that people have shit opinions.

>>4575335
>the adventure genre that once played host to games like Zelda, Beyond Oasis, Alundra, Medievil, etc., has now been absorbed by open world design and become inseparable from trash like Skyrim.
So, so true, and an absolute shame.

>>4576041
both games changed my life. it was a cumulative thing. you're irrationally angry over children's toys and it's cringey as fuck tbqh

>>4576052
Nothing is more cringe than saying a fucking JRPG changed your life lmao.

>>4575441
Ocarina of Time is a slow paced game, you can clear a Psikyo loop in the time it takes to go from one place to another with empty space in between.
The fact that you don't care about the bad performance just means you aren't very demanding of your gaming experiences. Sure, the frame rate doesn't disrupt the game, BUT this means the game has to be slow paced and easy. If it were actually challenging that shit would be unacceptable, and it's one of the reason 3D console games have almost always been so babby.
OoT is pretty formulaic in the sense of how the items work, some older Zelda games aren't as "this item is just a glorified key for this section".

Anyway, not insulting OoT. If we compare it to modern equivalents it's pretty good. My main criticism comes from the fact that I don't think games like these are very enjoyable unless you've only played similarly simple games. Once you've played more engaging stuff OoT begins to feel boring as hell
>>4575560
This guy wasn't me, bw. Just in case.
>>4575882
It's possible. I have a hard time stomaching OoT after playing much more demanding stuff than Batsugun.
>>4575960
He's probably European. That game turned an entire generation of them into progressfags/storyfags.

>>4576056
>nothing is more cringe than caring or being passionate about something
found the 14 year old

fuck it this place is obviously not for me

>>4575960
You know, I used to shit on FF7 because I was never into JRPGs, and even at the age of 11 when it came out, I thought the whole atmosphere and story were trying a little too hard to be edgy... But after actually finally playing the game myself this year, I have to say FF7 is pretty stellar. The nuts and bolts of the battle system aren't particularly revolutionary, but the materia system is probably the best gimmick Square ever experimented with, and the music and atmosphere are absolutely stellar, and when you get down it it, that's most of the experience with JRPGs. It's really not hard to see how the game blew people's minds in 1997, especially considering that JRPGs weren't particularly big in the west beforehand. With Ocarina of Time, I can point to a bunch of technical reasons that the game still holds up, but with FF7, it's kind of something intangible. I'm 31 now, and I can't say it changed my life, but if I had been into this kind of stuff at 11, then it may have very well. It probably would have been the first time a game was something more than a game, as gay as that sounds.

>>4576062
Good, return to /veddit/
>>4576070
It blew kid's minds that hadn't played nor read anything in their lives, as well as later it blew the minds of people that were already used to only play babby games from 5th gen on.
Also, first big JRPG in Europe. Also, a humongous marketing campaign.

>>4576070
>a game was something more than a game
You really have to go back: >>>/veddit/

>>4575093
people on VR shit on it because its easy and story driven.

But story games are not inherently bad, and I enjoy OOT's story. Nor does a game have to be difficult to be enjoyable.

>>4577062
Well, we come here to escape from that shit that plagues modern games, after all. It's not weird at all to see people like that gather here.
In the modern mainstream, games WITHOUT being story driven and easy are shunned.

I couldn't care less who disagrees with me. OoT is th best game every made in my opinion for reason's I can't explain. It may be nostalgia. I just know playing it makes time goes by faster because I still get lost in the story till this day

OOT does deserve it's praise but it's fans are really obnoxious about it, I have trouble telling the false flaggers from the actual fans.

>>4577081
Being contrarian simply because something doesn't exactly line up with your taste is not exactly a positive attribute.

You can easily say its a good game for what it is but not one that lines up with what you're looking for.

>>4577308
I said it's a good game for what it is if you read carefully. For a baby game (by this I mean a very easy experience mostly enjoyed by non-game mechanics related stuff or by people only used to challenge up to that point), it's one of the better ones, that's for sure.

>>4577316
Personally, when I played it as a kid for the 1st time it was plenty hard. Clearly that doesn't hold true for adult me who has also played it more times that I can count, I actually like a lot of the game mechanics, I just think it needs tougher enemies.

I think calling games like that baby games is stupid, though I am not a VR regular, just someone who has played video games since the Nes era

>>4577339
Sure, it's made to be engaging enough for kids and beginners. But when you go beyond that it begins to become boring, at least to me.
It's just a name, don't get so upset.
>I actually like a lot of the game mechanics, I just think it needs tougher enemies.
This is the whole point. A game like this could be fun with better frame rate, interesting enemies, hard exploration and thought provoking puzzles. But it's very basic all across the board.

I was playing some MHW today and while I was wowed by the modern technology and what new games are capable of do now, I still couldn't help but think of how modern 3rd person action games, like Souls or MH, are basically an evolution of OOT, maybe not entirely design-wise (OOT wasn't revolutionary in game design per se, either), but in the gameplay mechanics. The way OOT managed to pull a control scheme, and fine tuned it to the point of 3D person combat being actually gratifying, and deeper than any other game of the time. Again I'm purely talking gameplay action mechanics, not design ones like the RPG elements, which OOT only has very little of.

>>4577371
OoT devs thought of cool controls for your character. Too bad everything else surrounding that is too simple to be super engaging.

>>4577367
Sure exploration could be more free, though there were limits on what they could do back then. I really don't think the puzzles have to be harder than say the master quest, though that because I prefer hard combat to hard puzzles.

Heck they could have done that with what is in the game, replace the early game monsters and similar ones with lots of late game monsters and mini-bosses everywhere. And of course turn up the damage and health on the bosses.

I replay the game because I enjoy the story and the feeling of being immersed in the game. I think that gives it more replay value than a pure game play experience like the 2d Zelda.

>>4575093

But lots of games do that and way more.

>>4577378
You are indeed not a VR regular as you mentioned, you have the mentality of a modern gamer that enjoyes games more for stuff that isn't related to game mechanics but rather just aesthetics, story and the like. Which is a shame since it's stuff that can be found outside of the video game medium, while game mechanics are only found here. Oh well.

>>4577376
When you have into consideration this was the first game of its kind, which this kind of combat system and controls, it's understandable. Also, most of OOT's fun actually comes from the puzzles, with combat being more of an extra ingredient, and mostly reserved for boss fights (which also contain puzzle elements to them, most of them).
It's a different game from more RPG, grinding-based games like MHW, but yeah I was purely talking the controls of the character. The targeting system, the dodge mechanics, the different ways to attack either slashing or stoccade, really swell design.

>>4577381
I can enjoy games built around mechanics too. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

>>4577382
It's not "understandable", they made the game simple and easy on purpose. They feared people wouldn't want to play the game if they found it hard or got lost, hence the low action challenge and the Navi guidance. Most puzzles are a bit of a joke, with a few exceptions here and there.

>>4577392
You clearly prefer the non-mechanic stuff
>I think that gives it more replay value than a pure game play experience like the 2d Zelda.

>>4577397
Perfer is one thing. that does not mean I dont play the mechanic heavy games.

Besides that's only talking replay value, something very different from the initial experience. With most mechanic games I want to wait long enough to basically forget the mechanics, or at least get a little rusty so I dont replay them as much.

>>4577393
I don't think it's that simple, and most puzzles are reasonably thought out, while others are more action-oriented (the timed ones), but overall I don't think temple design is that simple. The game also allows you to pretty much do temples in the order you prefer, most of them, so I never understood when people say the game is linear, it's not.
Where the game does feel simple is in the combat, mostly because most enemies aren't that hard, even bosses. The Gerudo girls were probably my favorites.

>>4577409
The issue I have with people that prefer non-game mechanic related stuff in games is that that path leads to games getting worse over time in the area that ultimately matters most: how they play. And since that has become the dominant line of thinking for the average player these days, it's what happened.

Tell me, what do you think happens when story becomes a focus? Game devs feel pressured to make the game very easy so noone buying it for the story has the chance to miss any of it, thus having to make it a very simple game.
When you are not selling games for their good mechanics the demand for them to be good or improve just disappears.

I think this is the main issue so many of us here on /vr/ have with stuff like OoT, FFVII, MGS, etc. they changed the industry in a game we don't like, either by beginning some later trends or solidifying some.
You see, Sonic the Hedgehog 16-bit games are very popular as well, but they don't get as much hate outside from console war threads by Mario fanboys. It's simple: those games didn't mark a shift from classic game design into the modern non-game lightly interactive experiences.

>>4577414
Only technically true, without hook/longshot you can't do most of them, without bow you can't do any besides fire temple

>>4577443
That is a valid concern, though I think that there has been a resurgence in pure gameplay with the indie scene and so many virtual console releases of older games.

Anyway dont see why the two systoles cant coexist and even overlap.

>>4575093
I've been playing through the 3DS version lately and I still love it. My one minor nitpick is there a few times it can be a bit obtuse about how to find an item you need to progress, but exploring is so fun that I don't really mind. The 3DS version adds a hint system for scrubs anyways.

>>4577468
Most indie games are a big step down from classic arcade standards.
The thing is, they can't coexist. Aestheticfags (and progressfags) have eaten the whole marketing, there's no place for us game mechanic fans anymore.
It's not just my ideology, you can see it in terms of the nature of the games that are sold these days.
Non-games just spreads into more non-games.

>>4577471
*the whole market

>>4577471
I think you overstate the problem, there are several mechanic heavy games on my wish list right now. If I include the retro games I want to purchase the list is longer than the aesthetic games I want to buy

>>4577492
Well, the fact that you consider 2D Zelda games pure game play experiences doesn't make me very interested in your wish list

>>4577498
Depends on the Zelda game, some of the later 2d ones are story heavy, though not compared to say an oldschool RPG

>>4577508
By that I also meant they aren't very demanding, not even the NES ones are that much.
This is what I call a relentless 100% pure game mechanic bliss https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ14EsaFTH4
2D Zelda games are more up there than the 3D ones but they are still not in the top tier in this regard.

>>4577529
What platformers do you recommend?

>>4577562
I'm not huge into platformers. I like these arcades: Ghosts n Goblins, Ghouls n Ghosts, Strider, Ninja Spirit. But these are more action-platformer. Not huge into pure platformers, but this is just a preference this time and I have to get more into them.

>>4577581
Now I kinda get your comment about arcade quality. I hardly ever went to arcades. It was all nes and super nes (and Game boy) back in the day.

>>4577587
The thing is after some years of mostly playing arcade games (when I was a kid it was more of a mix) it just became very hard for me to go back to easier home games, I came to enjoy the challenge arcades demand.
OoT just puts me to sleep. I can beat an arcade game in the time it takes for that to even get started an have more fun during that, it's just the sheer intensity.
However, I'm not an elitist. I can also enjoy easier games, and when I'm sick I pretty much have to (I like made for console shooters in situations like that, such as Blast Wind and other Technosoft games). However, I'm much more tolerant of easier games that are still pure gameplay and don't waste your time.
For instance, I'm more tolerant to Streets of Rage (compared to arcade Capcom beat 'em ups) than to a game that still feels like you're in a tutorial some hours in.
So, in conclusion, what I value most in games is quality/time ratio. And I can enjoy games ranging from slightly challenging to super challenging if they're like that.
OoT is slightly challenging; however, it's slow paced for me. For the N64 a game that's much more up my alley is F-Zero X.

>>4575105
>Never played the remakes.

There weren't any you doublenigger

a retextured port is not a remake you doublenigger

>>4577581
>>4577597
unironically I recommend SMB 1 and 2 (Japanese 2 which is 1 mechanically but with difficult levels) if you haven't played them

>>4577597
Well by that metric I dont think any Zelda game, or any game set up like a zelda game would be a good fit for you because you end up doing alot of wondering around.

>>4577662
Man, its been forever since I played lost levels or even Mario one. Its another game I need to pick up.

>>4575432
Autistic faggot.

>>4575882
>I can't, because OoT is, in my mind, in the 'best-tier' of adventure games

I legitimately agree with you on this, it's just that OoT is in its own tier and nothing comes close, everything else is only half as good at best. It's just one of those things that's so good that its hard to believe that it was even made, in that before I played it I never imagined a game could be experienced the way I did OoT.

I remember reading an interview by Miyamoto way back where he said that he deliberately made OoT easy because people were not yet used to adventuring in a 3D space but he would be free to put real challenges in future games.

What the fuck happened? He made Wind Waker even more easy. Or was that just Aonuma overriding his boss?

>>4577797

MM had like 4 different control schemes

after that a new generation of kids grew up so they made baby tier WW again, then made it harder with TP

>>4577809
>then made it harder with TP
Twilight Princess was even easier than Wind Waker, though.

>>4577821

not really, they expanded the combat from being wait until the prompt comes on and puzzles were more elaborate.

>>4577821
Not really, WW is by far the easiest of the 3D Zelda's TP is harder than OTT and MM, not that its particularly hard.

>>4577832
>>4577838
TP adds a bunch of combat moves for enemies too simple justify them, has dungeons that never require more than one key being needed at a time, and has some of the most insulting bosses in the series (I beat some of them so fast I never even saw them attack).

None of the games are challenging in the grand scheme of things, but TP was the only one at that point to approach Okami levels of insult to the player's intelligence.

>>4577838
>TP is harder than OTT and MM
Haha no

>>4577843

it actually is, OoT didn't have a cave of ordeals and TPs is magnitudes more difficult than WW. Also Hyrule Castle is pretty tough.

>>4577917
I wouldn't call it tough. But I would say the enemies are harder to kill than most of those in OOT

>>4577950

Getting swarmed by waves of bokoblins proved to be quite a challenge

>>4575093
The combat is inferior to virtually any beat em up from DMC1 onward, and in fact inferior to many 2D melee-focused combat games. It's got an ok world. Certainly not the best looking and it's a very small world.

Exploring really doesn't matter too much because the game is piss easy so whether you find something or not doesn't matter.

I think anyone that would put such an easy game as one of the 'best games' really outs themself as an ultra-casual.

>>4577969
>The combat is inferior to virtually any beat em up from DMC1 onward
No shit, DMC came out years later and on next generation hardware.
>2D
Not comparable.

>>4577789
>I legitimately agree with you on this, it's just that OoT is in its own tier and nothing comes close
that is not at all what I said though

>>4578028
You haven't really made a fucking point. What are you even trying to say? "It's the best but it's not the best because other games are the best too, but this is also its own type of the best". Incoherent babble.

>>4578036
you have poor reading skills

>>4578048
I'm literally the third person to read your post and can't figure out what the fuck you're really saying, so no, I don't have poor reading skills, you're just a babbling retard who doesn't know what he's really trying to say.

>>4578073
>but this is also its own type of the best"
directly contradicting my post

>>4577969
>The combat is inferior to virtually any beat em up from DMC1 onward

This isn't something I agree with at all. OoT's combat system remains the best in any 3D game, I've played, it's just that it''s never utilized properly in the game itself. Look at the speedrun strats for the combat duels, you can see that it's solid as hell and potentially gives you reason to utilize everything you can, but it just deliberately holds itself back from being actually challenging.

>>4578134
>you can see that it's solid as hell and potentially gives you reason to utilize everything you can, but it just deliberately holds itself back from being actually challenging.
same thing in 3D Mario games. and Mario Kart.

>>4575093
>Anyone who says this doesn't deserve to be called one of the best games of all time is an idiot.
No one denies that
>This is, bar none, the best adventure game ever made.
That's subjetive. What if i prefer a more linear experience that takes me through a bigger world? Unless you are specifically talking about action adventure games, aka arpgs, which barely had any competition.

>>4578073
YOUR A FUVKING KEK FAGGOT AFRICAN AMERICAN NUMALE STFU FAGGGOT ASSSSSS

>>4577662
That guy. Do you really think I don't know about Mario games? lol
Anyway, they're cool but not really for me. I don't have much fun with games that require you to walk or run for a while to jump further; if you see what platformers I liked, they had fixed jump arcs. For console ones, as a kid I was a lot into the Mega Man X and Classic series; not so much nowadays since I don't feel they are up to arcade standards, but their jumping controls just feel right and for those moments I'm sick and stuff they're nice relatively easy games to no weakness, no tank play through.
>>4577680
Indeed, never was a big fan of Zelda, though I can have a bit of fun with the 2D ones.
>>4577698
>ad hominem instead of arguing against properly
>>4577797
Newtendo happened. Also, once you start to pander to aetheticfags, progressfags, storyfags, etc. and get the big sales it's hard to go back, you now have a bigger audience expecting something else from your game. Not a challenging Zelda game, but muh lore and muh immershun, so why not make it easy to get even more of these.
>>4577969
>I think anyone that would put such an easy game as one of the 'best games' really outs themself as an ultra-casual.
Yeah, that's pretty much it. If you are used to more demanding stuff you risk OoT becoming mind numbingly boring to you.

>>4575115
>OoT secrets
>revolve around Sun Song gimmick and tedious backtracking
>"that's good design, guys!"

>>4578248
The fuck are you talking about? I don't even remember any secrets that use the sun's song unless you're just hunting for skulltulas. OoT had a ton of cool secrets, like the stone of agony spots, the fisherman's hat, turning butterflies into fairies with the deku stick, restoring signposts with zelda's lullaby, the windows in the castle courtyard, items hidden in trees, the list fucking goes on. None of that has anything to do with backtracking or the sun's song you dumb faggot.

>>4578134

The basic combat mechanics are solid as fuck, there aren't many enemies that allow you to utilize it to the fullest though. Fights against Gerudo are some of the most intense moments in the game. Also the Gerudo trial ground in general has this one room where you fight off several lizaldfos at the same time is pretty intense. If OoT had more enemies on screen like in older Zeldas shit could really be challenging, but N64 probably couldn't handle more than two enemies.

>>4578189
You shit on immersion but it is a legitimate thing to look for.

>>4575667

the world and characters felt certainly better in Okami.

yet, calling for a "best game ever" is running into a myriad of subjective point of views. Yes OoT was really good at its time, where 3d games were still pretty clunky for the most part, however, calling it best game ever!, I don't know, I feel even TP was better overall, but saying that is seemingly taboo.

>>4578661
It depends what your looking for. Many of the mechanics are better in TP. the world is bigger, but and sorry if I trigger the anti-immersion people here-- it does not have the right feel. Nor do I think the side quests are as much fun.

That said I really love the combat engine, pity they didn't put in enough difficult enemies to justify it.

In the end it seems like they were just trying to make a bigger ocarina, but failed to nail the things people liked about ocarina. If they had gone full in and made it a combat heavy game with a zelda story it would have been better.

>>4575093
>>not very difficult, but relaxing and engaging
>>fun combat with lots of different items and techniques to use
>>perfect length that doesn't overstay its welcome, but still leaves plenty to do once the game is finished
>>great art style/presentation and god-tier soundtrack
Subjective. I find the game to be extremely annoying with its terrible combat mechanics, most of the items and techniques are pretty useless in most cases, cutscenes are overly long, overused and unskippable. "Still leaves plenty to do" just sounds like a fucking chore when I already don't like the controls nor the combat nor the presentation.
Art style is shit, it just looks like any terrible 3D game of its era. As for the soundtrack, it's pretty generic nowadays.

This game has aged like fuck. Granted I never had an N64 so I had to try this game out for myself in recent years. No I didn't like it, played for maybe 5 hours before getting fed up with it.

>>4578698
>aged

>>4578785
I really like seeing this response because it implies the person posting it is so autistic they can't grasp common phrases and must take everything literally.
It also shows that they have no other qualms with the post they replied to.

>>4578661
I mean, TP would have been better if it didn't have the wolf shit and have proto-fi stopping you to point out the obvious so often.

>>4578785
Incredible counterargument.

>>4578425
Fuck off, Icycalm

>>4578809
>>4578820
>it's a common phrase so it's right!
A lot of common phrases are idiotic. Do you copy every little slur you hear from other people?

>>4575952
exactly, these teen fags who probably wern't even born at the time of its release calling it shit is pathetic.

it was a fucking wonderland, getting the game guides in nintendo magazines was magical.

>>4579078
Read here
>>4579076

>>4578425
This.

>>4579108
Surely one of the creators of the games of the highest caliber of all time, anon.

>>4579116
Still more than you've done in your life, kid.

>>4579121
I'm not comparing him with me. Nice try

When talking about a game you don’t have to compare it to other games new or old. If you’re complaining about graphics or fps then you’re just comparing it to modern games because we all know no one complained about shit like that because we were absolutely blown away. Ocarina Of Time is a masterpiece. It always was and always will be.

>>4579132
Not blown away from it back then, sorry. And 2D games were smooth, it was a jarring transition unless OoT was one of your very first games.

>>4579136
by it*

>>4579136
Okay sorry you were the 5% of autists who weren’t ready for 3D but everyone else was

>>4579147
I was ready for 3D, not slow-ass easy games full of cutscenes.
I was ready for F-Zero X, not OoT.

>>4579136
I played since the era of the nes and frankly you're wrong.

>>4579136
I want you to find a single review of Ocarina of Time from 1998 that cites the framerate as a major problem with the game. Doesn’t matter which website, magazine, what language it is written in, whether it’s professionally or amateur written as long as it’s from 1998.

I want you to find evidence that there was at least one other person back then who claims to be like you.

>>4579174
Not every old 2D game is a NES flickering mess or SNES slowdown party. Most of the good stuff is WAY, WAY smoother than OoT.
>>4579181
I'm not a game reviewer from 1998, when did I say my opinion was a fact or something that was believed by most people? It's my personal experience and tastes.
The thing is, if you were used to fast paced and smooth 2D games before OoT then that game just felt sluggish, as well as not engaging due to the lack of a challenge.

>>4575102
OP infinitely and eternally btfo

>>4575093
i wish BOTW had more mini games and more lively towns and villages

>>4579078
But botw happened, and because you are not a teen now you cannot understand it has been dethroned. OoT was the best Zelda a long time ago, not now.

>>4579196
>The thing is, if you were used to fast paced and smooth 2D games before OoT then that game just felt sluggish, as well as not engaging due to the lack of a challenge.
Cool, then this kind of opinion should be reflected in a review back then, somewhere. Right? I mean you do have evidence for your assertions...?

>>4579223
Why does my personal opinion have to be represented in journalistic reviews? lol

>>4579226
Because you aren’t simply representing it as your opinion but implying it had some kind of objective value that other people were likely to share. “2D games were smooth, it was a jarring transition unless OoT was one of your very first games.”

>>4579240
Well, sorry if I generalized too much while writing that post, it's about my personal experience. I just tried to explain why OoT didn't impress me.
I even played Mega Man Legends before OoT and was similarly let down by these games.

>>4579246
I think a lot of us were just thrilled to be playing functional games in 3D. OOT was actually one of the best, many early 3d games had terrible controls and camera compared to it.

>>4579313
Sure, most people were. Not me, that's all.

>>4575093

>>4575093
Played the 3ds version for the first time like 2 months ago and enjoyed it a lot, definitely lived up to the hype

>>4579313
The same can be said if we compare OOT with games released later.

>>4580319
The later games copied OoT’s controls for the most part.

>>4575115
>huge city in full 3D instead of just pre-rendered marketplace
>time system gives characters a schedule, adding temporal dimension to gameplay other than just day/night cycle that stops when you enter certain areas
>fewer dungeons are offset by huge pre-dungeon quests
>fewer dungeons makes more abundant sidequests more useful to get hearts, you can easily start the first one with 4 or 5 hearts
>zora mask makes moving in water actually fun
>you can upgrade your sword, in a quest that *isn't* a clusterfuck like the one to get the useless long sword
>actual story development other than muh kidnapped princess and muh gannon is literally hitler

>>4575093
it deserves respect just for introducing z-targeting and making action games actually fun to play

>>4575093
>Open world that's often barren and tedious to explore
>Linear to the point that you're forcibly pushed towards the next area for no explicable reason
>It is both easy and engaging, I'll admit
>Combat was one-dimensional and items had incredibly specific uses
>Most of the side games felt disconnected from the main game and didn't engage your ability to control Link or his items
>Was aesthetically very exciting, I'll happily concede that

I played it a ton as a kid and still enjoy it, but take off the damned nostalgia goggles, OoT is a flawed and ridiculously overrated game.

>>4580319
They generally improved the mechanics yes. Did they recapture the magic? only sometimes.

I'm not hear to tell you it was perfect. At the time it came out it was incredible and even now its very worth playing. that said I prefer the 3DS version

>>4580924
>Open world that's often barren and tedious to explore
Nothing barren about it, every area is filled with tons of secrets and things to do. You're probably the kind of guy who never knew about the signpost, the windows in the castle courtyard, the pit of redeads in kakariko village, the special trees by the spirit temple, etc., because you never did anything other than beat the dungeons and quit the game.
>Linear to the point that you're forcibly pushed towards the next area for no explicable reason
Not counting sequence breaks, there's actually about 7 unique dungeon orders you can do, and there's nothing wrong with linearity to begin with.
>Combat was one-dimensional and items had incredibly specific uses
One dimensional? It had a ton of different moves and sword techniques, and very few items had "specific uses". I bet you didn't even know you can do stuff like flip tektites with the megaton hammer or use the light arrows to get purple rupees. Other than the Souls games I doubt you could give me an example of a single action adventure game that had more ways to kill enemies.
>Most of the side games felt disconnected from the main game and didn't engage your ability to control Link or his items
What the fuck are you talking about? First of all, they're minigames,they're SUPPOSED to be different from the rest of the game, that's literally the point. Also, how is stuff like horseback archery and a shooting gallery "disconnected" and doesn't directly relate to your items and abilities? This is a really stupid criticism honestly.

OoT definitely has flaws, I never said it didn't, but everything you've mentioned here is meaningless rubbish.

>>4580876
>>you can upgrade your sword, in a quest that *isn't* a clusterfuck like the one to get the useless long sword

Holy shit you have awful taste. The goron sword quest in OoT is one of the best in the series, while the goron race minigame is rubber-banded cancer while the gilded sword is unaesthetic compared to the razor sword.

>>4580969
> Also, how is stuff like horseback archery and a shooting gallery "disconnected" and doesn't directly relate to your items and abilities? This is a really stupid criticism honestly.

I know, OoT's mini-games were more connected to the main game than anything in FF or any RPG I've played. Everything occurs in the same engine and lets you do things that a 'pure' minigame normally wouldn't allow.

>>4582414
>>4580969
OoT and MM both have really good minigames, and the fact that the reward is a direct enhancement to your character in inventory space is the best. My favorite minigame in any adventure /RPG I've played though is Dragon Quest 3. The fact that you have to find the tickets to play them throughout the world and dungeons, they have replay value because you lose most of the tiem but still get some goodies out of it, and when you finally make it to the end you get some really powerful item. It was so fun they made an entire game series, Itadaki Street, based on the minigame. But it's not quite as fun when removed from the context of the overall adventure imo.

>>4575093
>ocarina of bland

>>4577656
They have higher frame rates and in some cases reworked mechanics and even boss fights.

>>4575093

>>4583836
Psst..I think byuu might be autistic...

>>4583836
this is what happens when you play too many JRPGs. you ahve to beat at least a few action games per RPG playthrough or your hands will deteriorate too much for you to do even the easiest stuff. how can you fail that horseback archery minigame lol.

>>4583836

>>4583889
This is true, and it goes for every non-execution based games (which includes most modern stuff). Alternating is fine, but only playing that stuff will soon enough make you suck at games.

>>4583912
Funny that he says that. Doesn't time stop when you bring up the weapon wheel in Halo? Or am I remembering wrong

>>4583836
>I made it all the way to Ganondorf. Had all 20 hearts, all possible upgrades, all four bottles filled with ultimate potions ... and failed miserably.
holy fucking shit that's some next level GIT GUD
I beat Ganondorf in OoT when I was 12 years old ffs

>>4583836
This is the most bizarre play through of anything I've heard of. How the fuck do you lay through a game like that, getting almost fucking everything (obviously mostly with guides), and yet complain about how frustrating the most basic task is?

>>4578152
FF7 has aged far like milk whereas Ocarina of time has aged like cheese, ff7 was dated the instant the next console gen came out, oot was dated the gen after that.

now as far as a game that I think has aged better and stands to be just as good is metal gear solid, there are few games as from that time period that are that polished, and the only thing that has aged badly is the controls in some spots. dont like that? play twin snakes.

>>4587942
It's OK to be an underage /v/ crossposter and praise these overrated games.

>>4588090
nah /pol cross poster

i personally think its aged a lot better than both ocarina and ff7 combined, that being said ocarina of time still holds a special place in my heart because it was like one of the first games i played at age 6.

>>4588090
if it were that good kids today would be able to play it without complaining

>>4577597
You honestly might have ADD.

>>4589647
Nah, I just value my free time. I get much more out of 15-30 minutes of an arcade game than 15-30 minutes of OoT, which is so uneventful and easy it's barely stimulating. It's like saying I'm ADD for being bored for watching paint dry for too long, boredom from a lack of engaging stimuli is a good thing. I don't have any problem focusing with anything that's actually interesting or demanding.