/vr/ - Retro Games

let's get this shit started

Is that Jack Black

>>4529750
How to spot a pleb:
he prefers TMA to TDP

>>4529767
No it's h3h3

>>4529792
this

>>4529795
exactly what i thought

>>4529792
I play TDP for the original campaign, and TMA for the fan missions.

the original TDP campaign is a perfect finished whole. all missions serve a clear purpose. all missions have high quality. everything is polished and aesthetically pleasing. a lot of people hate the Maw, but at least it serves a clear narrative purpose, and it's over pretty quickly. imho it does a good job at wrapping up the story.

meanwhile the TMA campaign is a mess. the number of city watch or mechanist themed missions is unproportional. Casing doesn't make sense, and it's still a boring mansion with shitty architecture even if we only had Masks. all city missions are ugly as fuck compared to Assassins and THC. overall the T2 campaign is fan mission tier, and I've played plenty of fan mission campaigns with higher quality than the original campaign.

on a purely aesthetic level, I prefer T1's cold white lighting over T2's comfy warm lighting.

>>4529871
which is your favorite t2 mission?
conversely, what's your favorite "story arc" in the game's levels.

>>4528654
I like the sound of it. As opposed to a more classic chaotic situation, estabilishing precise rules to play by is equally interesting for horror missions (or horror in general), especially if the player can dare to break them and eventually is forced to do so. It's the vibe I got from the Cradle, even if mainly story wise: while the Cathedral is an actual death trap, the Cradle appears to get more dangerous the more you delve into it.
Sadly we're never gonna have a decent sequel and FMs have their limitations, but sometimes I appreciate just how much these games make the mind wonder. It sounds dumb but this was one entertaining thought.

Speaking of sequels, I'm surprised by the lack of spiritual successors of Thief. A lot of games, stealth or not, have Thief and LGS as their inspiration. Sometimes it shows, sometimes it's subtle. But none of them tries to be Thief (Dishonored, maybe). Did the series perfect this formula ten years ago?

Can you have rain in Thief Gold? Is it allowed for the 20YA FM contest?

>>4530724
You can have it but I don't think it's allowed for the contest.

Is the dark mod worth looking into? Are the available fan missions any good?

I see they're still updating the game but the community seems ded.

>>4530808

It's free and it's not a particularly big download. Why don't you try it yourself?

The Shadow of Lord Rothchest

>>4530772
darn
There's this one, but I don't like the result.
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131729

>>4529750
When I downloaded Thief 2 it came with these files in addition to the setup file:
>patch_thief2_2.0.1.19.exe
>ep2.crf
>NewDarkGraphicsSettingsToolv1.0 --FULL.exe
>NewDarkGraphicsSettingsToolv1.0 --LIGHT.exe
>TafferPatcher_TMA_216_beta.exe

The setup file itself was "setup_thief2_2.0.0.18.exe"

What do these do EXACTLY? And are they even necessary? Because I haven't done anything with them and it looks like Thief 2 is running just fine from what I can tell.

has thief ever cockblocked you before?

>>4530192
>ten years ago
Fucking hell I'm still using the "add ten years to the moment of the 90s you're distancing yourself from" method but we're fully entering the twenty zone.

>>4532002
No escape from the spooky mines.
There's something dantean about the progression in that mission, you start from the haunted caves and end up in the holy upper levels. But, unlike Dante, no one is ever glad to see Garrett, and the company never gets better the farther you go.

>>4529758
Why is nuGarrett depicted as the sympathetic underdog who's actual qualities are ironically mocked as flaws and Garrett depicted as the clueless meathead who's flaws are obliviously praised as qualities?

>>4532043
>that bush

>>4529758
garrett never killed anyone. constantine and karras both died by their own hands.

>>4529758
>>4532326
ftfy

>>4532338
Pagan girls come with perks

>>4532002
Can you exit the mission this way on Expert once you have Basso?

>>4531356
This is one detailed mission briefing and it certainly sets up some expectations.
Also the mission answer to a very spefic question: what did Garrett so with Constantine's sword after TDP? I like it, so let's see.

I was just playing TMA. A Karras-bot fired a cannonball at me and it exploded, which caused a deployed rope arrow to shake. Such TECHNOLOGY!

>>4529758

Garrett had a waifu?

>>4534273

Grils like to ship Vic and Garrett together when she was just a manipulative bitch. He did kill her GOD after all.

>>4532002

That's not sneaking through the mines and factory, you dumbass.

>>4529750
By the Builder's cock.

>>4529795
Kek. Uncanny.

>>4534278
To be fair he seemed upset about what happened at Soulforge, and not only because she fucked up like an amateur. He specifically mentions Viktoria's death as something the Keepers could have prevented. Viktoria on the other hand bids him farewell calling him "good thief".
It's the first time we see Garrett cooperate with someone through a game and I believe they tried something new with the story in their usual way, subtle and told by a few words and images. The game doesn't turn into a buddy cop movie out of nowhere (luckily and sadly), but you can tell that they got past the initial hostility thanks to the mission they shared.
Now, I don't remember much about his relationship with Artemus, but I do remember that his death was quite unceremonious and it's a shame. He's an important character after all, the good part of the Keepers-centered story. I guess the final reference to the start of the series makes up for it.

>mfw playing through Lord Beilman's Estate

>>4532043
and yet the very next mission has garrett descending through a giant tomb
really makes you think...
>>4532681
haven't tried expert but the mission ends as if garrett dies even after ticking the first goal, which i'm guessing it does no matter what
>>4534282
;~;

>>4529750
Is Deadly Shadows good? 1/Gold and 2 are pretty much the best games I ever played. How does DS rank by comparison?

>>4529750
I have Thief 2 version 2.0.1.18

I found a patch labeled version 2.0.1.19

What EXACTLY does this do? And should I install it? Do I NEED to install it to make the game work?

>>4536214
It has its problems like crouching makes you completely silent no matter the surface and how buggy it is, but it's definitely worth playing. Might be an unpopular opinion, but I thought T3 was more consistent in the levels than T1 or 2. All the levels are either good or amazing and I can't say the same thing about the first two games. The story is probably its strongest aspect. You finally get to learn more about the Keepers. Don't forget the mod that removes the loading screens from the levels.

>>4536093
So it's literally an instant death and the game treats it as such? Or is it actually just a mission failure like it looks like? Not too familiar with dromed but I guess it's like a zone in the mission that triggers failing that objective instantly which is actually pretty interesting since the likelihood of the player getting up there is fucking miniscule. I guess LGS thought of everything.

>>4536254
>All the levels are either good or amazing
The only good levels are the seaside manor, museum and cradle. The rest are very bland and forgettable, and even without the loading zones, most are very small and flat. Also the city hub was shit.
>and I can't say the same thing about the first two games.
Thief 1 has the best missions by far. Thief 2 might be the more consistent (in how boring they are).
>The story is probably its strongest aspect. You finally get to learn more about the Keepers
I don't like what they did to the keepers. They turned them into a bunch of morons, overly reliant on those stupid glyphs. I liked them more when you didn't know much about them.

>Fangirls obsess over Garrett and not this

>>4532761
Purah was involved with the Calendra missions.

I just played through Lord Alan's Factory, and what can I say, it's... different.

The size of it is breathtaking, but since there is no human measure, it all feels pretty abstract. You could argue that it's "poor man's large scale", the one you get from designing a normal sized mission and then resizing everything by x3. The large scale also makes the mission pretty slow to navigate, and backtracking becomes pretty frustrating.

In spite of this, I really liked it. The late industrial theme felt pretty original, and the horror elements in the end struck just right for me. using all the different numbers to navigate was interesting.

I'm gonna try the other two Lord Alan missions out now.

>run over a stationary hammer on the floor
>insta fucking die
i know this is because hammers have a unique "damage creatures when thrown" property and this was a weird glitch but i like to imagine i just tripped over the fucking thing and broke my neck.

>>4534278
Garrett x L'Arsene is the patrician ship.

>>4536214
People here will shit on it because "muh Xbox" and "muh tiny levels", which is fair criticism, but I fucking loved this game to death anyhow when it came out.

The best aspect is that it actually gives a good resolution to the story.

>>4536269
City hub was great
> you actually have to sell items to fences
> then you can visit shops in town
> collecting elemental crystals in town
> reading people's diaries
> daily events where NPCs act differently depending on what you did before
> that ambience of being out on the street where people and guards interact
> sneaking past the guards
> locating and entering level locations

Also the Keepers were like that from the get-go. Every bit of information and text scrap you get in the games says that the Keepers prefer inaction to keep the balance, and glyphs are all over the fucking briefings and cutscenes.

Thief 1
>Hammer Haunts wield swords because their cursed bodies are unable to wield the blessed hammer
Thief 2
>Hammer Haunts wield hammers because hurr durr Hammerites
wtf I hate Looking Glass now

>>4537665
Thief 2 is borderline fan-fiction sometimes, but not as much as TDS is.

>>4537665
Maybe the hammers aren't blessed and just ordinary hammers?

>>4537665
Thief 2 is a regular example of "listening to the fans".

Guess what, fans are shit.

>>4537665
Holy haunts haunting the heathen Mechanists in the name of the Builder

>>4537665
I always thought that the Haunts in the cathedral wielded swords because you need to be able to dismember undead. A warhammer is a heavy, anti-armor weapon that crushes bone. Zombies don't care if their skulls are bashed in. You need to be able to hack them to pieces.
Plus Thief 1 perfectly explains the sad and misguided piety of the Hammerites, that they attribute to their god whatever accomplishments they've achieved from their own hard work, just like real life catholics. The Lunar Pool at the cloister can charge an object with the same kind of blessing as priests can give using their arcane abilities. It's not really divine power, or even magic. It's science. But prepare to get executed for heresy if you tell that to the Hammerites. The hammers are not blessed weapons. Deadly Shadows is actually the only game in the trilogy where Hammerites are capable of destroying undead using their hammers alone. Put two zombies against twenty Hammerites in Thief 1 and you've got twenty dead Hammerites and one zombie with twenty frags.

>>4537770
>...one zombie with...
*...two zombies with...

>>4537770
>Deadly Shadows is actually the only game in the trilogy where Hammerites are capable of destroying undead using their hammers alone

Demonstrably wrong. You can lure the zombie right next to the first two hammerites you see in Cragscleft and they will blow him asunder with their hammers.

>>4537994
Really? That must be a Thief Gold or Mandela Effect thing because I distinctly remember only explosive, holy water and flashbang damage being able to harm zombies and NPCs were no exception. I need to go and test this.

>>4538002
I've done this multiple times on my last playthroughs. It's true that Garrett can only kill Zombies with those things, but the rules dont seem to apply the same way for NPCs-

>>4538009
I tested it and it's true. Damn. I need to install the original unpatched Dark Project and see if my memory is faulty.

>he quickloads every time he gets caught instead of fending off enemies or using gadgets to escape

>>4538060
I fucking hate people who play that way. If you wanna ghost, then ghost but without the savescumming. I ghosted so much at a certain point that I never used any gadgets and weapons. Fuck that. The best time of playing Thief that you can have is to actually use flashbombs, gas mines, your arsenal of weapons and the like.

Thief is as much about your contingency plans and emergency solutions as it is about a smooth plan coming together.

Would anyone happen to know why I might be losing my Thief 2 cutscenes after installing tafferpatcher?
I've tried uninstalling/reinstalling the game a bunch but I only ever have movies with the game unpatched, and it's weird as hell because this has never been an issue for me before.

>>4538002
I think normal guards w/ swords can't kill zombies, but hammerites can, could be wrong.

>>4538078
For a while I couldn't even accept that a guard would watch me escape and let it pass. I would quickload to a safer moment even when I had successfully got out of trouble only to redo that part better. It's incredible how much satisfaction I got from this while never actually getting good in the process.
Thief surely lends itself pretty well to supreme thieving simulations, but if the game system allows a perpetual cat and mouse situation to take place, with the guards always forgetting about the thief they were chasing, who will always try again to get past them with new tricks and solutions, I'm up for it now. A few games with guards that don't forget about the trespasser they've seen already exist, I can safely be autistic about those and keep Thief in the fun zone.

>>4538078
>If you wanna ghost, then ghost but without the savescumming.
Exactly. That's what my video series is about. If something is beyond your capabilities without saving, then what's the point of doing it? Savescumming and reloading after every tiny failure only demonstrates your supreme ability to gain enjoyment from something that can't possibly be fun. Ironman Ghosting might accidentally end up maybe demonstrating actual skill. If you look at it from a lore perspective, it's not far fetched to think that Garrett would find a tactical advantage in completely avoiding confrontations, like in Casing. But it needs to have reasonable odds of success. The quicksave mechanic is not canon. We're not talking about Thi4f where videogame handicap-accessibility features were written into the story.

>>4538171
I used to roleplay the Thief persona to such a degree that I would want to leave everything and everyone undisturbed except for the items that I stole. Then I thought about it more and realised how stupid that would be. You don't take anything but the valuables and somehow no one notices that all the gold, silverware and jewelry is gone? Fuck that. Garrett is not a ghost. He is a man. You don't pass through the levels without a trace.

I kind of liked that the guards actually (try to) inform each other of trespassers. Some levels like Assassins have an alarm that keeps all the guards on a permanent state of higher alertedness which only seems reasonable.

>>4538193
Exactly. What is the point of playing a game that is largely about spending thought and resources on contingency plans and gadgetry if you plan of never making use of it?

I get it if you want to keep commotion to a minimum but a tap on the back of the head with a blackjack every now and then is preferable to failing your arbitrary ghosting objective or constantly savescumming forward. 90% of Thief ghosting let's plays I've watched are just that. Savescumming. Imagine breaking into a building in real life and telling the guards each time they spot you "no no, you didn't see me, let me quickload." That's the equivalent of penetrant savescumming.

Either get good enough to do it without the reloading, or buy some flashbombs and mines. Have some fucking fun.

I remember just going on rampages with my friends on Thief maps because it was fun to do. That drove me to play the game a bit more naturally, i.e. not creating any saves other than those where I leave off on when I close the game.

>>4539276
>Either get good enough to do it without the reloading, or buy some flashbombs and mines.
I'd argue that even that is secondary because it's a stealth game. The immediate next item on your list after your main objective is to remain undetected. If you can't be reasonably certain that a guard won't be detecting you, knock him out. Don't quicksave and roll the dice. That way he will have by default never seen you. You can't be "un-seen" the way you can be "un-chased" after escaping. That irreversible failure state is also why I don't like the concept of "Guards vs. Thieves" multiplayer. I dislike the idea of playing on a team that fails its primary purpose before the game even begins, since all guards are physically incapable of not knowing that there are intruders.
I know almost everyone hates Thieves Guild but blackjacking before you're detected has an important background role in the context of that mission. You should do everything you can to avoid being identified, so that all blame can be taken off your shoulders and placed on the two opposing parties, and the best way to ensure that is to incapacitate anyone that might threaten your your ability to remain undetected.

>>4539276
To each game its rules, and sometimes this applies to different missions too. Thief changes the rules of the game early throwing you in haunted mines, and does so consistently through the game. The player is asked to tap their adaptability more than anything else: the only constant are your skills and trusty gadgets. Trying to not die comes first, not getting caught is the natural follow up if one masters these rules. Somewhere in the middle the player's creativity comes into play.
To think that during my ghosting phase I tried to play every stealth game the same. I'm glad most of them offer a good variety of gameplay possibilities, it feels like being new to the genre again after thinking that there's a right way to play them for too long.

>>4539362
>That irreversible failure state is also why I don't like the concept of "Guards vs. Thieves" multiplayer. I dislike the idea of playing on a team that fails its primary purpose before the game even begins, since all guards are physically incapable of not knowing that there are intruders
I've always thought that a cool way to do Thieves vs. Guards would be to have one "master guard" who gets a few minutes to draw out patrol routes for other guards, to more optimally protect the valuables; it still has some issues but it might work

I know its not retro but has anyone else had trouble running Deadly Shadows on Windows 10? I keep getting a weird stuttering that I can't get rid of no matter what I do.

>>4536214
I didn't like how they nerfed blackjacking, but once you adapt the controls it's fairly intuitive. Don't enjoy the smaller levels though, not tried the no-loading screen mod.

>>4536214
I don't know why no one else responding has mentioned the controls. TDS isn't a bad game but its controls are very clunky compared to TDP and TMA. Every movement is filtered through the 3rd person model's animations and there seems to be what feels like built-in stuttering in the act of jumping. The limitations of making 3rd person animations look more realistic caused other compromises such as more limited melee interaction, the inability to exit ladders from any point other than the bottom and the top, and the total absence of swimming and rope climbing.
It's not all a step backwards though. Even though TDS is a console game, it actually introduced a new button to separate contextual actions. Using items and frobbing game world objects use different keys unlike TDP and TMA.

>>4539879
Sounds like normal DS to me, that game's a shit that runs like shit.

>>4537042
There was something definitely gothic about this one. Not only for the story, it's also about how the building is made. It's confusing and twisted, but you can get to know it through exploration and it never loses its identity: room by room, it still feels like an opulent, dark manor. At first its layout doesn't feel right by the Thief standards, but the player can eventually overcome the challenge like in Constantine's manor. A minor prolem are the objects placed in a way that suggest negligence. I'm just too used to see chests and chairs in certain positions, it's like a coded idea of Thief. I wonder if it's possible to break this limit.
Apparently it's a tradition to make the Constaine's Sword hard to steal and I like it.
This FM's Garrett is a traditional one too: he gets into some dark business and finds out about some vaguely evil plan, but the only thing he worries about is finding a way to steal everything he can from this nest of chaos. The mission's objective doesn't change when the player finds out what's happening in this dark manor, as opposed to ìsome FMs where our thief suddenly enters hero mode and saves the day. It's interesting how you can deal with Lord Rothchest in any way you want: you have to rob him but you can even fight and kill him. An implied freedom of choice, based on the player's own experience, is always welcome.

>>4540254
(cont)
The undeground part of the mission was a small, personal disappointment, because of how I imagined it while exploring the manor. Like I feared, the atmosphere the mission builds through readables and level design sets up some expectations. Which isn't a bad thing, letting the player vividly picture the heart of this cult the mission is about surely is a merit. The problem is said heart of darkness ends when things get good. Some readables really add to the tone (especially the ones from Rothchest): there's clearly a bigger picture our thief can't even try to understand, but the feelings expressed by the characters involved are clear. It's the gothic part of this gothic thing.
The catacombs part creates and interesting claustrophobic effect but it can be annoying to traverse. The idea of a small underground labyrinth between me and my objective is interesting, but it can be made more challenging rather than tedious, especially when it connects more parts of the underground zone. I liked the little temple, mainly because I'm happy to see some assets from the Lost City being used. I've always found the OM great setting wise, but the fact that mainly flying fireballs and burricks patrol it limits its potential (maybe I should try the TDP version). TDS tried to add a twist to it, the idea of entering the ruins of a lost civilization and find out their inhabitant are still there is nothing less than endearing, but the technical limitation of the game clearly didn't help. So I relly hope in some redemption for the Lost City theme along the line.

>>4537727
You call yourself shit?

>>4539362
The problem is that blackjacking the fuck out of people is a dead giveaway as well. Unless you find convenient spots for everyone you knock out guards will notice bodies. And although they don't mind if their buddies are missing, I think they should. Imagine guarding a place and all of a sudden none of your colleagues are where they should be. That sure as fuck isn't reassuring.

I disagree that staying undetected is your next great objective. Depending on how you plan to handle a situation in a reliable way, stealth is kind of an option depending on the difficulty setting. If you're on expert, being detected is a painful disadvantage. If you're playing on Hard or Normal and you set up a big ambush with mines, flashbombs and other items from your arsenal, that's fair game too.

>>4539830

Depending on what level type your facing your strategies usually change but they still follow the priorities you've listed.

> Humans
Don't get detected. Use flashbombs, blackjack and the darkness as main contingency plans.

> Undead
Stay undetected because otherwise you'll die. Manage resources on mines, holy water, water arrows and fire arrows. There are parts of the game where killing off some zombies is almost inevitable.

> ghost type missions
pump all resources into moss, water and gas arrows, keep camera eyes, flashbombs and invisibility potions handy. In fact go heavy on the utility items.

I like how they game unfolds itself in that way. Depending on what your briefing and main objectives are like you will most likely prepare differently because you can't eliminate being caught in a tight spot.

>>4539362
>>4539849

I think the best way to handle a Thief multiplayer would be co-op. Design a level like Casing the Joint or Masks with multiple entrances, with fairly strong AI on detection and make it a bit more difficult. Keep team sizes small. Perhaps even give each Thief their own objective so that a plan comes together, such as

Thief 1: Gets a special objective to go into the basement to turn off the security system with special item/skill unique to them

Thief 2: Opens a safe tied to the security system and loots it

Thief 3: Steals the main item, like some personal book of the guy you're stealing from because what you're actually doing is industrial espionage or something

Thief 4: Does some other switch/button work for other shit to happen on the map.

I think something like that COULD be cool. But hell, before I ever played any multiplayer game I thought people could work together and actually have a good time too.

>>4539849
>>4539362
Have you guys never played Thievery? It's a Guards v. Thieves mod for UT99. I played it with /v/ like 5 years ago, it was tremendous fun.

Are there any FMs you guys have played more than once or are there too many out there to justify the time spent when you could be playing new ones?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5prpIUxWoCM

He seems happier here.

>>4542650
>Your mother sucks plumsies in hell

>>4542451
I've replayed a few like Inverted Manse, which lends itself to replaying, but I prefer to wait long enough before replaying any others so they're like new.

>>4542451
Captain of the Guard and Journey into Underdark i think they were called

> CotG
It's basically a Tower Defence game where you buy units and items from a shop and keep out the undead. Fun for the odd playthrough

> Journey Into Underdark

Boy is this a fun one. It's basically an Underground DnD mission that's combat-oriented. The difficulty settings reflect the class that you pick. Settings are Fighter (Has a Sword, Mace and Throwing Daggers of the magical and non magical variety), Ranger (Assortment of different magical arrows, including turning people into stone, summoning spiders, fire etc.), Mage (Summoning creatures, throwing fireballs, magic missiles and other utility spells).

Great replay value trying to figure out when to alot which resources. Overall I'm a big fan of gameplay like this.

>>4538060
>tfw am guilty of this
I'll try harder anon

>>4542451
I've played Endless Rain, Disorientation and Seven Shades of Mercury twice.

>>4543491
I've dabbled in Inverted Manse but will definitely put some solid hours into it. Loving the difficulty selection reflecting playstyle.

Does anyone know if tafferpatcher amd the like have recompiled the old maps with new 32 bit lightmaps?

>>4544613
I didn't notice any difference in lightmaps when playing Thief 2 so I don't think so. There is a noticeable difference in Thief Gold, making some parts of Thieves Guild a lot harder in a bad way. As if that mission needed to be more annoying.
Though it could be that Tafferpatcher did recreate the lightmaps with the new bit depth but maybe them being colored lightmaps somehow prevented the shadow values from being altered due to it being so different a mathematical format than monochrome.

Would Karras/The Builder approve of Smartphones and imageboards?

What parts of Thief 2 can be converted to Thief 1?
Skins? Camera? Textures? Items? Sounds?
Impossible?

i had no idea there would still be so many thieffans arround ... i thought i would be the last guy on earth to play it .
Im an absolute thief fanatic , i love it !!!!!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKL6elWHRro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U7kVZZdoSQ

vladimir vladimirovic PUATIN

>>4544795
karras is autistic, so yes

It's not vr at all, but the stealth segment from the latest Kingdom Come video looks promising. It's nice to see an RPG with stealth mechanics not only based on your stats, but also many little things to consider and obstacles to deal with if you want to last as savvy thief. It's something I always dreamed of. We don't know if the game is gonna be good or not, but I'm glad they're trying.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanism_(philosophy)

>Mechanism is the belief that natural wholes (principally living things) are like complicated machines or artifacts, composed of parts lacking any intrinsic relationship to each other.

Are they implying flesh is just as pure as a flame-forged contraption of gears?

>>4529795
i hate him so much

>>4537661
I pretty much agree with you. The patches on PC make it much better now though. The tiny levels are fixed, and all...

ur a taffer

>>4545543
As pure, no. But similar in design.

>>4545543
>>4546172
I got the impression that Karras believed that everything in the world was the Master Builder's creation, and the inspiration to create machines and ultimately ones that could walk, talk and think came from him. That this was the Builder's plan to achieve perfection, to transform the existing world from the rotting and diseased imprefection to the everlasting perfect mechanical and mathematical order. Living things were a wonderous creation, but living machines were the perfected successors of that.

>>4546243
>Living things were a wonderous creation, but living machines were the perfected successors of that.

The Hammers probably believed that, but listen to 2:36:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fayDMnIXylA

>The Flesh is sinful; Woe to those who are born of it!
then 3:22
>The Flesh is imperfect. It is unclean. It putrefies... A child of flesh is loathsome and ill-tempered.

I can't find a video but in Mission 5 you hear two Mechanists talking and one says something like, "Do you think your own body of bloating gases and leaky flesh doth please The Builder?"

They seem pretty dementedly disgusted by anything biological. I can see where the Hammers were coming from, calling Mechanism a perversion of The Builder's scripture.

>>4546154

>>4546243
The Builder was canonically a human.

>>4540259
I am very impressed by the mansion part of this FM. There's a freedom in the paths you can choose. Felt like a kid on a playground with all the climbing and traversing. FE, there are many ways to enter the mansion.
Need to take cues from this one, for sure!
Going to replay it.

The thing about the catacombs that irritated me was the trouble in running.
If the ceiling was just a little bit higher...

>>4547063
I'm pretty sure it doesn't say that anywhere in the games, but it is probably true.

>>4547063
>implying The Builder existed

>>4544795
why does he sound like Truman Capote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znS3gXjGCiU

>>4540259
By the way, did you find the trapdoor near the telescope?

>>4537770
Late reply but zombies are specifically set up to be able to be killed by hammerites.
Source: http://www.thiefmissions.com/telliamed/scripts.html The very last script.

>>4548183
t. buttmad pagan

>>4549293
Nope, I have to play this again to look for secrets. I also have to find the secret passage that connects the manor directly to the temple.
I agree on the mansion being fun to explore. It's weird looking and narrow, but everything is connected and depending on how you play you can end up in Lord Rothchest's room immediately or after exploring the lower floors, find the sword by pure luck or after searching for hints first.
I wonder if the haunt was supposed to wake up if alerted. Its body just floating around and following the player is the kind of weird scene that maybe fits the atmosphere (that one readable that mentions the mindless body of the lord's loved one wandering the dungeon comes to mind), but it feels like it was supposed to be the main obstacle before the skull. We've already seen a burrick playing possum in Koobze, I guess it's possible to have an haunt acting like a zombie.

>Manure tier
Pagans
>Autismo tier
Mechanists
>Fence-sitter tier
Keepers
>Just doing their job tier
City Watch
>Good guy tier
Hammerites
>Ubermensch tier[/spoiler
Garrett

I dare you to dispute this factually correct tier list

When you hear it......


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO3qLbrQyYc

>>4551825
Give us a timestamp

>>4551189
That's pretty much what every faction is outlined as in the series.

>>4551825
Didn't hear it. Him confessing about robbing a bank?

>>4551189
>>Just doing their job tier
Including Benny? Hmmm

>>4552075
>>4552421
0:00-0:03

>>4532483
>doesn't try to stand out

Which is a good thing for a thief, right?

>>4552564
Only a true chad with a brain shriveled to the size of a pea from decades of steroid usage and cranial semen protein injections could fail to understand the absolutely hamfisted point of that meme.

>>4552437
lel, just heard it. Not sure if he does say "taffers" though.

>>4552604
He says "kafirs" which is an incorrect plural of "kafir" -an islamic insult referring to a infidel. The correct plural is "kuffar".

Do you think Karras built a custom "waifu" model of his war robots? A pink version with a little bowtie and falsetto voice that cooked him dinner and asked how his day was when he got back home?

>>4552985
I like to believe Karras is eunuch.

>>4552985
I have a hard time picturing karras doing anything sexual and you should too.

>>4553120
>>4553139
Why did Karras trigger the servants at the end of SaS?

He knew that Garrett had literally killed a God through cunning and stealth. He knew that Garrett had snuck through TWO heavily guarded Mechanist outposts just to kidnap his right-hand man, Cavador, and he must have known Cavador would talk and tell them Karras' plan.

So, despite watching and taunting Garrett on the security cameras, therefore knowing roughly his path through the cathedral, he didn't realise that Garrett was gathering the materials to forge a guiding beacon. Did he think that after killing his waifu, Garrett was just going to run around Soulforge dodging cannonballs and cogblades for 45 minutes only to leave without having accomplished anything? Was Karras, the legendary genius inventor, really so incompetent that he didn't realise what Garrett had done?

>>4553760
One of his sins was obviously Hubris.

Just played through All Torc as well as Stones & Glass Houses (its sequel) immediately after it. R Soul's level design is really quite large and boring. There's a lot of running over large/wide and totally flat hallways and it's especially bad in the city missions he makes, he has an over reliance on scripted sequences where you stand in a room and a guy spits dialogue at you for 3 minutes (though I prefer this to reading 20 pages of a readable to find 1 line of useful information).

The city missions are fucking ass because of this, every single street is flat and wide and you just run around them forever looking for your objectives. The moving train mission is a nice idea but it's nothing more than a 5 minute setpiece that is over extremely quickly because there is only 1 objective and 1 secret. The mansion missions are definitely the best of the bunch but they are also really mazelike and confusing at times.

Pretty mediocre missions all things considered, the few technical achievements aside.

>>4553760
>So, despite watching and taunting Garrett on the security cameras, therefore knowing roughly his path through the cathedral, he didn't realise that Garrett was gathering the materials to forge a guiding beacon. Did he think that after killing his waifu, Garrett was just going to run around Soulforge dodging cannonballs and cogblades for 45 minutes only to leave without having accomplished anything? Was Karras, the legendary genius inventor, really so incompetent that he didn't realise what Garrett had done?
Thief 2 is a stealth game. The kind of playthrough you're describing, ie. one in which Garrett doesn't stay undetected is not canon. Karras had no idea what Garrett was planning because he couldn't see him through the cameras. You're actually supposed to sneak in this stealth game.

>>4554460
>one in which Garrett doesn't stay undetected is not canon
What a meme this is. He gets caught in the intro videos to each game (and for that matter he kills a guy in each of them). The thieves in Thieves' Guild recognize him on sight. He's seen and needs to use a flash bomb to escape in Ambush. The assassins in Assassins tracked him down even if they didn't get him in the end. There's nothing that says he's supposed to be a literal ghost.

A master thief is good, very good, but not infallible.

>>4554610
Nobody was making such gross generalizations across his entire career. The discussion was literally about the supposed plot hole that Karras didn't figure out Garrett's plans. The simple fact is that Garrett in this case remained undetected. That's all the explanation you need. A smaller strawman is the mentioning of ghosting. Remaining undetected and blackjacking guards or shutting down robots are not mutually exclusive. If I wasn't operating from the principle of charity I'd think you were insultingly condescending thinking that someone can't recognize such obvious logical fallacies that you're deliberately using, but I'm giving you the benefit of a doubt by deciding that you must just be stupid.

>lady bafford secretly supported pagans, therefore every noble in every fan mission must do that as well

>>4551170
Found the passage?

>>4554617
HUP
*TAP*
HUP
*GLUCK* TUH

>>4555647
GAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH

life of the party is overrated as fuck

>>4555975
Overrated sure, but it's still a damn fine level.

>>4555975
>gtfo Rothchildren
There are some really retarded design decisions in that mission. You have no choice but to run through an occupied apartment if you don't want to harm its inhabitants, and reading Karras' scripture spawns an unavoidable indestructible enemy that thankfully is glitched and can't even sound the alarm.

>>4556742
>You have no choice but to run through an occupied apartment if you don't want to harm its inhabitants
that part made more sense in the demo version. there, there was another route to angelwatch where you'd approach it from the front. instead of just immediately jumping into the vents like in the finished game, you got to climb the facade before entering through a window in the ballroom.

>>4556742
Fuck me, you mean there wasn't a route around the thot manor?
That section of the level felt very out of place since there were so many routes around the rest of the map.

>>4555975
Yep infact i ditched vanilla thief 2 when i was on my way back from Angelwatch, the mission drags for so long and mechanist shit is not rly interesting i preffer to play TF 2 fms that has TF 1 atmosphere/ includes hammerites..

>>4557026
>mfw the Thief fanbase has created so many excellent missions that literally every Thief related mission theme/gameplay preference is catered for.

>>4557030
>no H-Thief

>>4557037
As far as you know

>>4555639
Yeah, the switch is behind one of the statues in the corridors that lead to the pool, and the passage that opens is in the vestibule behind it. It's the only time the sound of a secret door opening helped me: there's a switch in the chimney I didn't find a use for and the same goes for the valve near the kitchen sink. Also I didn't find anything in the telescope room, I should look harder.
I've read only now the scroll that tells the legend of Hanhan'Tau and how the nature of the temple and the story of each undead in it is connected, which is pretty great. Got back there and found ol' Tau stuck in this position, eternally looking for the trespasser. As a flying corpse at least he reacted to the sounds I made, now he's just a statue. It reminds me of how sometimes dormant zombies glitch this way after loading the game. Age had the best of him.
Since zombies this time aren't simply a spooky filler but a proper part of the plot, my plan to make the catacombs part better wouldn't work. Imo by placing two or three zombies there things would get more interesting: they're slow, but mindlessly running away from one of them in the middle of a labyrinth can only lead to meeting the rest of them sooner. Also by defeating them they would just lay in the middle of a narrow passage, ready to be woken up again, narrowing down your options.
I like to think of them as collateral damage made enemy.

>>4557045
One thing's for sure, fake secret doors take the secret game to the next level.

>>4557057
>fake secret doors
How devilish

>>4557057
Fake? That one can be opened?

>>4557065
I'm fairly positive it can't. It's just a darker square. I've found what the chimney switch does so the only mystery left is the kitchen valve, for now.

>>4557082
Well, look for a bookcase.
Incidentally, have checked behind some banners?

>>4557082
Are you absolutely sure it's just a square?
Maybe read some books. A thief always got time for that.
Incidentally, have checked behind some banners?

>>4557119
Oh, a shortcut, now it makes sense. I accepted too quickly that that one wasn't a good place for an hidden stash. A shortcut is fine too.
I probably kept getting through the small room from the other side of the fireplace to miss the frobbable library-door.

What are the mechanics behind Captain of the Guard?
How do you create a wave-based zombie survival game in Thief?

>>4544879
TFix carries over enhanced parts of 2 to 1

>>4558379
What part of the mechanists is carried over?

Quick question: is this possible? (saw this on /v/)

>>4559210
It's not, it's some shitty fake OC creepypasta. WOW MY GAME IS HAUNTED BY GOASTS

If anything, the game crashes and keeps loading indefinitely.

>>4557965
Open it in Dromed and find out.

Has anyone ever seen a downloadable orange/yellow light shaft? Yeah, I don't know how to change the blue/moonlight know ones

>>4538078
I think I got spoiled by later stealth game franchises like Hitman and Dishonored where successfully ghosting a level gives you an achievement, or high rank, or something of the sorts, and thus it feels like any playthrough where somebody spots you is a "wasted" one. I need to get out of that mindset.

>>4561480
The Hitman games that have non-lethal takedowns let you knock out as many people as you want as long as you have the resources. It doesn't affect your rank. Dishonored is the same. The only games that actually judge ghosting are the Splinter Cell games. Chaos Theory only gives you the top rank of a mission if you manage to finish it without any alerts and without harming anyone at all. Hitman and Dishonored give you maximum rank even if you knock out everyone.

How do I make water flow in a inclined brush (22,5 degrees) in the same direction as the brush. It keeps flowing on a 0 degree way.

>>4561492
Chaos Theory gives you 100% if you knock people out though

>>4561492
Hitman 2 and 3 gave you very limited anaesthetic (Hitman 2 had dosages that realistically could hold maybe 2-3 people sleeping and for a very brief time, Hitman 3 had a single syringe for every level that lasted for a very long time but still had to be cherished, and Hitman Blood Money was *intended* to give you 2 knockouts per mission, but the abusable interaction with the Human Shield mechanic allowed you to infinitely stun people). Infinite knockouts only became a thing in Absolution, and before Absolution banged, I grokked the shit out of Hitman, where your max stealth rank can be ruined by:
>someone seeing you do something suspicious (particularly a guard)
>found bodies
>extra people killed
>more than a few gunshots fired (Hitman 2)
etc. etc.
basically, Hitman gives you those two amazing guns that pack serious firepower and that you can take almost everywhere, but nobody ever uses them because whenever your cover gets blown, you don't try to organically fix it by either silencing everyone who spotted you, switching disguises, hiding the bodies and reassessing the situation; the max rank being the only rank that matters makes you just go "oh shit, that one dude spotted me while I was lockpicking, I gotta reload now".

It was even more atrocious in Absolution, which had a schizophrenic rank system that was inconsistent and made no sense, and where taking a single step into an area that doesn't even look restricted causes you to get spotted. You want to walk into an alleyway into a residential building that just so happens to have two cops chilling out in front of it (for *some* reason that is never explained?) You step beyond the imaginary boundary on the floor and your rating is down. And that's bad.

Like, I'm all for stealth games rating your performance and all that, but max rank is incentivized in such a way that people just want to get their superawesome ghost playthrough done right instead of just letting the game flow.

>>4558902
Character models re-colored as hammerites

>>4562856
Can you have a mechanist skin on thief 1 models, together with the mace?

>>4562979
No idea. I'm playing on a mac

Can anyone identify a few FMs that the Thief BSP Twitter has been showing? I'm gonna dump some which caught my eye.

>>4563137
The Black Frog
>>4563139
When Still

This account really needs to step up its game. Not only does it post trash screenshots most of the time, but it has no FM identification whatsoever. I don't even understand why people follow it.

While some games encourage ghosting or a somewhat clean way of sneaking (Styx comes to mind) others have mission specific challenges (like Shadow Tactics or Mark of the Ninja) and I find those quite interesting if well done.
A weird case is the one of the new Deus Ex games. The player gets rewarded by completing missions without getting caught or setting off alarms (with achievement for doing it the whole game, setting the standard for the ideal playthrough). At the same time there's a small xp reward for kills/takedowns (with a little bonus for non-lethal ones), pratically encouraging hunting down any guard in a level. But it's also true that there's a reward for getting everywhere, doing everything and essentialy being a perfectionist. They're not necessarily stealth games, but there's clearly a more remunerative way of doing things and, since F9 exists, it's not the most challenging one.
Games like these should mainly react to the way one plays through the game's world and how it changes, rather than just giving more or less points based on that. But I' being unfair, since HR and MD kinda do both.

>>4529750

Rarely has a game spooked me so hard as Brainchild.

why did they change the art direction so drastically in T2? T1 looked unique, but T2 just looked like a generic "early 00's fantasy game".

>>4565390
There's always been some negative critical reception to Thief 1's use of garish colors (Bafford's Manor is frequently used as an example of this with bright purples and yellow brick everywhere).

Thief 2 was specifically made as a response to critical and community reception to the game, hence them removing all the supernatural stuff because 12 year olds at the time (the actual target audience) didn't like them. With those things they also modernized the art style/locations from gothic medieval with steampunk elements to victorian steampunk-based industrial revolution style.

>>4565394
>there are people who don't like Bafford's GOLD manor
Plebs, all of them.

>>4556742
THE BUMBLESONS!

>ss2 is the only non-thief game to use thief's engine
explain this

>>4565517
Dark Engine was a piece of crap, LGS admitted it themselves. I don't think LGS ever opened it up to public licensing anyway, since few at the time wanted games with complex physics and AI.

>>4565473
What FM is that?

>>4565523
It's a shame they felt this way. While rather janky, it's a great engine nonetheless. Not as versatile as Build which is as janky if not more, but definitely a great engine.

>>4565613
It's just a mission that I was working on a few months ago. It started out different but then I decided to make everything as gold/orange as possible right down the the guards. There's not much to it (you can see the empty void of space to the left so I don't know if I'll ever make anything of it.

>>4565517
How would Garrett have fared aboard the Von Braun?

>yfw you realise Karras and SHODAN would be perfect for each other

Song of the Caverns is such a great level.

>>4565654
>Looks mummfy.

>>4565654
>being foreverial tiedup by spiders in a cold cavern is comfy
I do love that mission though.
I always like it when missions have little bits of the City streets to go around in and this one has more than one place where you can do that.
Off the top of my head it's the only mission other than The Sword which initially misleads you about its theme.
Raoul is awesome and I like trapping guards in his secret room.
The ambient music is noticeably more instrumental than the rest of the levels.

>>4565654
>>4565763
>ywn be foreverial tied up and loving it like Gerry

quickly, recommend me fan missions that feature a T1 aesthetic (white light only, T1 textures, etc) and god tier architecture

>>4565801
Gems of Provenance
Project Hammer Part 1
Unexpected Detour

I don't think the second two qualify as god tier architecture but they're well done, just not showy.

Thiefkino returns
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjFo01BXUvo

>bafford has a tiny room with a few bookshelves
>garrett mocks him and calls him a tryhard pseud
>ramirez has a huge library that takes up two floors
>not a word from garrett

>>4566363
It used to be a thing that people bought books just to pretend in front of others that they're intellectuals. Maybe Bafford is quite a buffoon in real life and nothing about him says he actually reads those books.

Ramirez seems like he's a wee bit smarter than that.

That aside, maybe the developers just didn't want Garrett to repeat his own jokes.

>>4565613
It could do a lot of cool stuff but I can only imagine what it would have been like to use unfinished versions of the Dark Engine during TDP. I guess DromEd liked to crash constantly. Would have been cool to see the Siege Engine they were working on for Thief 3 and Underworld 3 which was going to have realtime lighting, a better level editor and physics and AI, and supposedly memory streaming that would have allowed for enormous maps with seamless indoor/outdoor transitions.

>>4565394
>There's always been some negative critical reception to Thief 1's use of garish colors (Bafford's Manor is frequently used as an example of this with bright purples and yellow brick everywhere).

Strong design > lifeless palette of colours design any day.

I'd rather have a game that dares to put in purple than "Let's stick with brown, white, and black, okay people?"

>>4567652
Even though I agree that Thief 1 is more interesting looking because of the use of a variety of colors (and monochrome lighting not obscuring any of the colors used), thematically the lifeless aesthetic of Thief 2 fits exactly the story. Almost all of the game takes place in locations influenced by the power of the mechanists, and the one mission that is supposed to be the antithesis of that just happens to be the one that throws a lot of saturated colors at you. Trail of Blood starts with a green forest, then goes into a magical world of elemental chaos, then cycles through all of the colors of all four seasons.
I'm not saying it was a deliberate choice because I don't believe that. But it does retroactively make some sense.

>>4565952
has this person done any maps perchance?

What do you think Garrett does during his down-time?

His apartment in Ambush! has a couple of full bookcases IIRC, so he probably reads at least a bit, though I don't know if he's into fiction. He seems more the kind to read non-fiction, history books and information about weapons and the like.

Which FM?

>>4570079
I get the feeling its The Last Lighthouse Keeper (i think thats the name), but i may be mistaken

>>4569741
Sleeping/recuperating
Visiting prostitutes
Making/maintaining contacts

Regarding Thief GOLD Dromed.
Where are the bow and the quiver in the object hierarchy?

T1&2 are great! Love me some Garrett!

I think I prefer thief1 though. Thief2 had better lighting and weather effects, but I didn't like the robots / machines.

Seriously though some of the best and challenging stealth games ever.

Still working on the third. It's smaller in scale though compared to 1&2. Haven't gone past the 2nd or 3rd level, but would love to find the time.

>>4570523
They aren't in the hierarchy. Check miss1 to find out their model names.

>>4571197
Why not?

That was a nice thread last night bois.

>>4571486
Must've been one of those threads that do not wish to be seen.

I just had a dream where I had an official Thief 2 novel in my house that featured a ton more of Karras and the mechanists, and I remember thinking to myself I was going to read it again when I woke up.

Then I did and I realised I had just dreamt the whole damn thing. Now I am dejected.

Where do i start with Thief?

Thief gold? Is there a good retexture?

>>4572431
Start with Thief Gold. No good retexture.

>>4572431
High-res textures make low-poly games look worse, not better.

>>4572514
And here I was thinking the blue palette of Assassins was intentional.

>>4572514
That looks fine, in my opinion.

>>4572514

why are builders allowed to use magic, wouldnt that be pagan

>>4572836
They're priests using holy builder magic (like any D&D universe priest uses holy magic). The Hammers are also not enemies of the Hand Brotherhood and magic is their entire shtick.

>>4572836
I can't find the exact quote but there is a Hammerite saying that goes something like: "...not all iron is from The Builder, just like not all wood is from The Trickster."

How many cigars do I have to smoke to get Garrett's sexy voice?

Well Karras I made it, despite your directions.

>>4573609
It's about how fast you can smoke them. A master thief could smoke empty a room full of cigars in a matter of seconds without leaving any trace. That's the way to follow.

There was this one FM that actually referenced a legendary burglar capable of eating all the food in a kitchen in an instant. I don't remember which one though. I like when FMs show love for both the game's world and its most game-like aspects.

>>4544961
>I clapped because I knew what that is: the post.

>>4573702
That was in Disorientation.

>>4565523
The Dark Engine is very ad-hoc, there'd be little use to licencing it

>>4571737
Do you remember any of the book?

>>4573781
whatefack is with the face?

>>4574032
>not knowing Garrett's original Thief 1 DromEd face

>>4574074
Can i skip Gold? I'm not having fun and from what i heard this game devolves into fighting zombies in mazes anyway.

Will i know whats going on in 2?

>>4573769
Thanks. I should start taking notes while playing FMs or I don't know how I'll be able to remember these little details the further I go.

>>4574121
Gold has a lot more human missions, actually. I like it more than TDP excluding the downwind thieves guild mission. You might want to go over some crucial story details like the fact that you fooled and murdered a trickster god and ended up paving the way for the main antagonists in the sequel before starting 2

>>4574121
None of the games devolve into fighting anything. The first game just has more monster-themed missions. I'd recommend playing Gold just for the atmosphere. Also if you really hate monster missions that much, then you're in for a shock because the worst mission in the game (and the trilogy) puts you against plain ol' regular humans.

>>4574121
I did some very complicated calculations

>>4574121
What do you dislike so far? Themes and level design will change but the core of the game stays pretty much the same through T1-T2.

>>4574121
You don't like Thief so don't bother.

>>4529750

>>4574340
I dont like standing 2 feet from someone facing directly towards me but being invisible because the spot im standing in is slightly shaded.

>>4574623
Are you referring to this?
https://i.warosu.org/data/vr/img/0044/34/1512224831008.webm
https://i.warosu.org/data/vr/img/0044/34/1512224896868.webm
https://i.warosu.org/data/vr/img/0044/34/1512224961256.webm

There's the Ultimate Difficulty Mod, but that's for Thief 2?

>>4574623
There are precisely zero stealth games that have shadow-based stealth but also your dark silhouette against a bright background makes you visible to enemies. Graphics processors are not yet powerful enough to actually process AI vision graphically. And they never will because as technology improves, expectations about graphical quality increase, so there will never be that extra processing power to be used elsewhere.

>>4573814
I think I remember seeing shots of a big cathedral, and plenty of Karras talking/doing things. It's lost to me now though.

http://thief.wikia.com/wiki/Thief_II_Gold

I wish T2 Gold had been released, because from the description of Fallen Hammers we'd have gotten a tonne of Karras backstory. Disappointing.

>>4574623
Play the game on a CRT with proper brightness set and you'll find that slightly shaded spot to be pitch black darkness.

the Rose of Bantry

>>4575049
>BUY MY SERVANTS

if you're not applying Thief-sneaking-shadow-living-strategies in your everyday life, you are just a plebeian casual-scum.

>>4575746

The old ass engine and the crt death made it difficult to explain to normies what is so good about Thief, really wish there was a modern adaptation with the same sound design.

Saw a thread on /v/ on the front page talking shit about Thief that made my blood boil.

>>4578217
how the fuck did sound design regress since TDP?

I don't play a lot of modern fps, but I always assumed that the mechanics in thief 1 and 2 had become the norm, or even replaced by more sophisticated mechanics, by now. but as teef shows, this clearly isn't the case. it got worse in all aspects.

the meme says that old games were more innovative and new games are more technically sophisticated, but the example of thief also shows aspects where new games have a lower technical sophistication.

>>4578247
Sound propagation technology from the perspective of pure aural experience has advanced, but nobody has utilized it in relation to gameplay to the extent that TDP uses the level of tech it has.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ_bUW8thp4
As atrocious as Hitman: Abortion is, I remember it having extremely good sound propagation that is in no way gameplay-relevant. And ironically the worst sound design I've ever experienced was in Thi4f. Completely arbitrary volume for everything, monaural vocals for hidden NPCs having conversations outside level structure, zero sound muffling in areas where muffling has to happen, and a lot of inexplicable muffling in areas where there should be none. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hG99MPZrrQ&index=2&list=PLmqYHnLFUbaIZBNfY4prU7P1npPzA201x

>>4578271
did we ever get a proper explanation as to why they fucked the sound up so bad? everything else was explained with the "can't have gameplay in the current year" meme, but if sound propagation has gotten better, then there's clearly no excuse for them not to have it in the game.

>>4578297
Thi4f was just another job, nothing was put into it much less passion. Fuck Canada.

>>4578297
They fired their initial actually talented sound designer halfway through the project. He had a really cool idea for the background music too. Some kind of procedural ambient generator that could dynamically alter the ambience of every environment based on all of the little details surrounding the player combined with a specific theme of that place. In the end the game ended up having traditional meh ambient and "combat music" that's always the same regardless of the mission.

>>4578247
It didn't regress, Thief just happens to be well above the gold standard to this day since Looking Glass had proper audio engineers working on their games instead of just some untalented schmucks like nearly everyone else

>>4578369
The funny thing is that the people responsible for Thief's gameplay-integrated audio design went to produce the Rock Band games. ie. games focused on gameplay-integrated audio design. Eric Brosius never stopped doing what he does, he just wasn't working on immersive sims because no one was working on immersive sims.

Since we're on the subject of audio, Eidos Montréal just yesterday posted a video on Youtube of an orchestra playing music from Thi4f. That shitty music that some random frog composed after they fired Paul Weir. (And abandoned Stephen Russell)

>>4578451
I fucking hate with all fibers of my being that fucking cesspit of sjw infested, mouth breathing mongoloid game development companies centred in Montreal.

>>4578457
The biggest companies in Montréal may be mouthbreathing mongoloids but I don't think they're SJWs. Capitulating to the demands of media with an agenda doesn't mean that you necessarily support their agenda. I haven't seen much actual pandering from the side of Ubisoft and I haven't seen any from Eidos Montréal. No theme in the Far Cry games that is tangentially related to social justice fails to point out its negative sides or that advocates of a specific type of justice may not feel that strongly about justica as a whole. Deus Ex may have an obviously gay side character but that detail is never mentioned because it isn't relevant, and one of the main characters is a secular Dearborn muslim but that's because it's fucking Detroit.
The only agenda-driven thing I can think of right now is censoring the Far Cry 4 box art because a bunch of retards thought that the asian villain was white and therefore they couldn't stand seeing him visibly oppressing an asian person on the cover.
Canada may be a cesspool of political correctness but from my experience the French Canadians are the the smallest offender in that regard.

>>4578605
>Capitulating to the demands of media with an agenda doesn't mean that you necessarily support their agenda.

Say what?

>>4578986
I think that if a conglomeration of ideological media outlets threatens use their influence to annihilate your company's image and cause massive profit losses unless you do a thing, then doing that thing makes you no more a supporter of their ideology than paying ransom to a terrorist makes you a terrorist. When someone has the power to globally label you Literally Hitler unless you change a game's box art, you can either stick to your principles and be destroyed by your shareholders, or give in to their demands and resume normal operation. Sure you've made the precedent that these scum have the power to change things they want to change, but with companies that are this big people usually have no choice. And it definitely does not make them part of the gang extorting them.

the thief setting, as seen by the end of TDP

>>4579137
the thief setting, as seen by the beginning of TMA.

what happened?

>>/vr/thread/S4391912#p4435774
Is it possible for an AI to switch between attributes?
Machine on --> AI>Attributes>Hearing>null
Machine off --> AI>Attributes>Hearing>Average

>>4579140
the mechanists

>>4579137
>>4579140
TDP:
-Old castles and stone brick buildings owned by the poor peasants and "middle-class" lords in the oldest sections of the City
-Plus a more modern victorian architecture opera house that stands out from everything else
TMA:
-Brand spanking new mansions of the ruling elite in the countryside
-Mechanist-modernized architecture
-New buildings in areas of the City so new that they actually have block grids to some extent, and highrise housing
-Plus old stone brick peasant-class architecture in Wayside that stands out from everything else
TDS:
-Old stone brick architecture everywhere
-The whole game takes place in the oldest parts of the City because of the Final Glyph
-Plus a victorian architecture mansion outside the City that stands out from everything else

I don't really see much inconsistency when you take into consideration that all of the games take places in totally different areas. There's some overlap, but that's why it isn't all completely different. The opera house in Thief Gold isn't medieval, and the Wayside market district isn't victorian.

>>4579262
did they invent a time machine or something?

Let the spooking commence.

>>4529750
Is that that h3h3 faggot

>>4529767
I thought the same godamn thing

>>4579450
Yes. A time machine that lets you travel in the present.

>>4579483
That was an amazing mission.

What is the lore behind The Circle of Stone and Shadow?

>>4581061
A new Warden called Master Nightfall established his operation in The City to rival the likes of Webster, Raputo and Ramirez. But instead of engaging in the regular mobster tactics that all of the other Wardens like doing with large gangs of gangsters, Nightfall decided to recruit and train a select few high-end professional covert operatives, kinda like splinter cells. These agents would work secretly behind enemy lines subtly manipulating things from the shadows instead of using violence, threats or other primitive mafia tactics. Nightfall and his agents are known as the Circle of Stone and Shadow.
I didn't verify any of this so it might be wrong. I just recalled things from back when Gathering At The Inn was first released.

>>4577113
I knew who made this one the instant I read of the "no women" blackjack restriction. I wonder how many of these first authors we're gonna see again from this point onward.

>>4581330
iirc The Tower had a woman you weren't allowed to blackjack because she was pregnant.

>>4581372
Yeah, I remember her. I think she was the one you gave the property deeds to.

Are there any good before/after comparisons for all of the model/texture updates in tfix and tafferpatcher? I can't find good images anywhere. My TDP playthrough was done with all of the tfix boxes checked except the legacy engine. Everything looked great (except the chests, too high res) but I want to know if that was stupid, or if I missed out.

>>4572514
Something that amateurs like to do is make these HD textures look clean as fuck. Yes, they look shiny and HD, but they also look like they're always freshly polished and nobody actually lives there.

It's funny how professionally made textures from 20 years ago, made with inferior technology, still trump what an amateur does on much superior technology.

>>4572514
a few colour tweaks would work wonders for that pack.

but even then, the issue of the awkward combination of low poly models and high res textures would persist. also this: >>4583212

>>4582659
T2 models and textures have no business in T1. T1 has it's own art direction, as seen in >>4565390

>>4583212
Those textures from 20 years ago have a 'film grain' to them, it seems.

>>4581330
Are you sure it's Lady Rowena who made this?

>>4584243
It's in The Tower, so yes that's her.

>>4584243
Oh no, in the case of The Rose of Bantry I meant the same author of Shadow Business, which also included the no women rule.

>>>/v/406558987 here
I didn't get to reply to any responses because I had to leave.
I'm on Windows 7. I install Thief through Steam and then extract TFix Lite into the install directory per instruction, overwriting THIEF.EXE. Game crashes on startup. I tried following the tips in troubleshooting.txt but the one about display resolution was the only one relevant to me, and it didn't help.

>>4584587
Are you sure that Steam isn't freaking out and reacquiring files that it thinks have been corrupted? I've had that problem with some games and had to set the new files extracted into the install directory as "read only" to prevent Steam from tampering with them.

>have a dream about thief
>completely fail stealth at every turn
>guards always turn around at the right second
>alarms are always getting turned on
>dreams even include repeated quick loads

I hate this.

>>4585579
I copied the game from the steam folder to C:\Games and don't launch it through steam, which works for my regular installs, so I don't think Steam itself could be causing it (but before that I also tried launching it through steam and that didn't work either).

>>4585672
That has literally never worked for any games I've ever had on Steam. If it isn't installed where Steam mandates it to be, the game will not launch. Most of the time it doesn't even let me launch from the executable. Steam is not a store that sells you games, it's a DRM that tells you how you can play the games that they own, that you have paid to play. You don't have customer rights. You don't decide how you launch the game. Steam does. Because the game isn't yours.

>>4585684
Well, it's worked for me with Thief for the last several years and I've been able to freely copy and use it on other computers. Same with Quake, when I was a dumbass who actually bought Quake on steam.

And as I said, TFix Lite doesn't work even if I leave it in the Steam folder so I'd think it's unrelated.

>>4585684
>>4585695
However, I tried a fresh install and set all the files to read only and launched it through Steam like a good boy and it worked. Indeed, it now works even if I move it over to my other folder (I don't even remember why I did that in the first place).
Thanks.

Playing Undercover for the first time. There are a lot of gold and important hammers to steal, but fuckers are looking at them 24/7. Am I supposed to just blackjack everyone and drag the bodies to shadows?
I tried luring them away with arrows but they either don't react or start attacking me/sounding the alarm if they see me with a bow

>>4585828
The only way to finish the mission undetected is to blackjack everyone who might notice that something is wrong or missing.

>>4585828
your cover will be blown as soon as they notice that something is wrong. it's impossible to ghost this mission and still get all loot.

>>4586138
It's impossible to ghost the mission on Expert, period. The minimum loot requirement is so high that you will eventually have to steal something that someone will notice missing and will immediately run to sound the alarm.

>>4586162
and in spite of this, there are still people who argue that garrett has never been seen, blackjacked anyone or left a trace in the canon.

>>4586173
I don't think it's sensible to suggest he has never blackjacked anyone because very few mission objectives mandate zero blackjacking and one mission mandates several unnecessary ones. Undercover is impossible to ghost, however if you assume that Garrett does actually use his blackjack which is sensible to assume, it is entirely possible if not downright trivial to finish the mission without ever being caught. Garrett went in wearing a disguise, strategically incapacitated the hammerites he needed to remain inconspicuous and slipped out when the hammerites were scrambling to investigate the talisman alarm.
And all the way from the first mission it's inarguable that Garrett does leave some evidence of his intrusion. Afterall the mission starts with pickpocketing the wellhouse guard, and it isn't possible to place keys back onto guards' belts. A claim against something is disproven by a single piece of evidence of that something.

>>4579490
kek, that's what I think every time I see it.

>>4585828
Okay, now I also can't find the switches. The one "near brother what'shisname" and some keyhole tree or something like that, found the others.
Which fucker even is that. I checked even the statues and tombs, been at the inquisitor and high priest so many times...

>>4586558
the keystone switch is unfair as fuck. everyone realises that it's somewhere in the garden, but it's hard as fuck to find the location in the garden. it's the original shitty switchhunt.

if you go into the garden, you'll notice that the wall has a ornate rim that goes along it. check on the insie of this rim, on the opposite side of where you enter the garden.

as for brother thomas, you should find him if you search the areas you mentioned properly. make sure to read any plates you see.

>>4586558
>>4586578

it's really not that complicated.

>>4587017
ah, yes. so all you have to do is find the vault in the garden?

funny fact: iirc there isn't a single vault in the mission.

>>4587028
>>4587017
>>4586578
I finished the level. I also had a bunch of keys that... didn't open anything? At least I didn't find any use for them. Knocked out 75% of the temple, also.
Interesting mission. The switches seems somewhat obvious in hindsight... but the garden one could've had better hints. I thought I should be looking near a plant, or like the two red flowerbeds or something.

>>4587017
The "keystone" in Keystone Tree has nothing to do with actual keystones. It's just one tree among others.

>>4587789
>>4587028
Look down the garden from the balcony and you can see the disposition of those trees happens to resemble this picture >>4587017 and the switch is located directly behind the "keystone" tree

>>4587903
What are the the three seemingly random trees in the middle meant to represent in the arch diagram? Surely they can't just be there randomly to suggest that all of the tree placements must be random and any shapes discerned must be coincidental? Surely they can't just be there to make sure that only people who know to look for an arch configuration of trees will be able to discover an arch configuration of trees?

>>4587982
u mad?

>>4588234
well not really because when I was 10 years old I recognized the English language word "tree" and knew that only a few places in the mission have trees. Nobody would have a switch embedded into a tree or into the grass so it must be next to a wall. And because one of the switches was already found in the ceiling of another location, if the switch isn't in a wall next to a tree, it has to be in the ceiling next to a tree. So that's where I found the switch. It wasn't because of some trees in a garden happening to form an arch if you're specifically looking for trees that form an arch among others that don't and selectively ignore the ones that don't.

Finished RttC. What a ride. What fucking fetching tho.
The game kinda bugged. I played on Hard, and after carrying the first body the ghost thanked me and told me to touch the upper right part of a mural, and then dissapeared while a voice said I had to carry a second body. Clicking the mural did nothing, so I dragged the other brother and then the ghost gave me a key for the explosive charge.
So, what's up with the mural? From what I gathered it doesn't do anything?

>>4588876
Are you sure he didn't say Brother Murus?

>>4588876
clicking the mural opens a secret room in the same area where you can find some fire arrows and mines I think, nothing really that important.

>>4579129
Yes they have a choice. Yet the West just gets staler by these traitors.

I found a key on a guard on the ground floor in Masks but I couldn't find a door or chest to unlock with it. Was it for something like a chest in the guard barracks?

>>4538078
>>4538060
>>4538171
>>4539276
>>4538193
>they can't ghost levels in one take
Fucking taffers get out of my game!!!

>>4541081
>> Undead
Don't give a taff about them. Get detected, just run.

>>4538193
I think I watched your videos a couple months back, good stuff.

>>4554782
I think it's an interesting idea that literally everyone except the weak-willed brainwashed guards and the mentally insane (like Karras) are actually believers in the Builder. Kind of like that one story from Lem's Star Diaries where the guy lands on a planet full of robots and disguises himself as one so as not to be killed, then discovers that EVERYONE is a human disguising himself as a robot for the same reasons as him.

>>4563489
How exactly does Styx encourage a clean way of sneaking? It does quite the opposite, in my experience. To get the maximum amount of XP, you should replay each level at least once, because there is no way you'll stay undetected AND collect all the goodies AND finish the level within the time limit.
The "race" playthroughs are always the most fun to me, I go all-out with the Amber abilities and tools (keeping only like 1 throwing knife as a backup) rushing through everything as fast as possible. And if you manage to STILL stay undetected, you feel like a God.

>>4589860
I can ghost missions in one take, but it does take compromises. For example I would never attempt to 100% any mission while simultaneously ghosting and ironmanning. When something is unreasonably difficult to accomplish without saving, I'd rather not try it at all than to savescum to accomplish it.
Also some missions where the objectives include mandatory knockouts, I think it's basically nonsensical to attempt to ghost the rest of the mission. Afterall one piece of incontrovertible evidence of a break-in is enough and any more simply does not matter. The only thing that justifies it in the end of the day is Garrett's egomania. Even though most of what he does any given moment during a mission is a tactical choice, it's all still filtered through his desire to do things the hard way so he could feel a sense of accomplishment. Otherwise there would be no hard killing restrictions with game overs.
>>4589880
Styx encourages some restrictions but forces none. But it's clear that the game doesn't expect you to be completely stealthy, completely non-lethal and extremely fast at the same time. You'd have to be insane to map out a level in a way that lets you precisely execute every step so it's fast, you visit every secret, you kill no one and no one sees you. I've seen those ghost runs of Splinter Cell Chaos Theory and all it does is completely break your immersion. You're literally exploiting the way the videogame was created in order to find that one specific narrow path through with zero improvisation or adaptation. It's no longer a game, it's choreography.

>>4589860
>>they can't ghost levels in one take
>Fucking taffers get out of my game!!!

That's not the point and you know it, faggot. Look at videos like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGYsPbbZBU0, where the guy is constantly saving, reloading, saving, reloading, and just behaving pants on head retarded in-game there's no real point to the game.

Ghosting is fine, as long as you actually know what you're doing and don't have to savescum every 5 seconds because you're a damn plebe.

The true patrician way of playing is taking whatever the game throws at you and continuing. Saves are only for when you're leaving off for later. It feels much more immersive to play that way than to reload because a guard smelled your fart 2 miles against the wind, or dropping off something improperly and taking 1 point of damage.

>>4587982
Nigger I figured this shit out when I was twelve, and I had no architectural skills whatsoever to know what a keystone is.

>>4589984
>I figured this shit out when I was twelve
Well, I was ten, English is not my native language, and I did not notice an arc among a configuration of trees that happen to include an arc in addition to other random trees that break that pattern and make it harder to see an arc. So even if I did know the English term "keystone" all I saw was trees. Not an arc of trees, just a few trees and a couple of trees, when actually they do form an arc, if you ignore the couple of trees and only take into account the few trees. So I ended up finding the switch like this >>4588267
A much harder puzzle was finding the keeper library in Haunted Cathedral because I had no idea what "grotto" means and I'm pretty sure I still don't know. "Illuminate" was also not a word I was familiar with, though there isn't much the player can do with fire in this game. "Pedestal" I did end up finding in the dictionary. -You know, one of those huge thick books that people used to use before internet translators. Still it wasn't exactly intuitive because the pedestal gives you no indication that you're doing something by standing on top of it.

>>4589984
That video is from a guy who primarily plays Supreme Ghost because that is what interests him though. Supreme Ghost being no first alerts allowed at all means that if he wants to do that he has to savescum.

Yeah obviously it's not the most fun way to play the game for 99.9% of people but if that's where he wants to dedicate his autistic superpowers then so be it.

Doing Supreme Ghost in 1 take would be literally impossible. I have no doubt this guy is able to 1 take Ghost though if he put his time to it instead of his Supreme Ghost savescum addiction.

Supreme ghosting makes no sense anyway because if you go out of your way to never be even a moment's flicker in someone's peripheral vision or a tiny creak of wood upstairs, then you're basically wasting your time. You see, even if you personally never contribute to any guard's perception of an intruder, it's still highly likely that they did think they saw or heard something that night. In this case what they think they saw or heard was in fact actually nothing. A shadow of a bird flying across a window outside. Beams settling from temperature changes during the night. They reacted to it, and dismissed it as nothing. Just like they react to and dismiss fleeting detections of Garrett as nothing. I believe the term is called Diminishing Returns. At some point in your strategy of Supreme Ghosting, it becomes entirely pointless because the idle sensory faults of people constitute the minimum baseline of percieved but dismissed detections. Those faults will be attributed to the intruder even if they are false detections and even if the intruder was never seen or heard for an instant by anyone.

>>4590242
The game had its tricky puzzle moments, sure, but nothing so obscure that you couldn't figure out.

Let me just say that I didn't figure this shit out immediately anyhow. Most playthroughs of any given mission ended up me having like 6-8+ hours on the save timer. I never used quicksaves as a kid. So if I got stuck on a puzzle like that I would walk around the level and try to deduce what the meaning of the puzzle could be.

In Undercover you get a scroll that spells out where the switches are. I'm pretty sure that the keystone one is mentioned to be in the garden, so I asked my parents what a keystone is and figured it out from there eventually.

Now the Cathedral puzzle was a different story. The Eye tells you there's a Keeper hideout nearby in a grotto. The important info here was "Keepers", because if you were observant you will have found a round pool with a raised platform in the middle and a Keeper statue with 2 torches beside him. It's basically the only solution to that part of the puzzle. It took me much longer to drop heavy shit on the pedestals to open the gates, and even longer not to trip the wallcrushing trap in the corridor.

>>4581330
The first FM with a gallows?

why is this thread so slow

>>4593258
because it's /vr/ and everyone who has played thief has probably talked about it to death over the past 20 years

>>4592830
Definitely. It's interesting how a detail like this, without a specific use, can be so relevant in the characterization of a mission and its setting, so easy to remember. We already played small city missions (maybe just one, The Living City) this one marks a good step forward. Good map too.
But I'm playing it too slowly. Perhaps it's the pitch black shadows, maybe some design choices. Did you find both entrances to the temple?

How do I get Thief Gold working on Windows 7 without TFix or NewDark or any of that stuff? I've tried with just DDFix but even though the resolution worked, the game ran way too fast and there were no footsteps

>>4593935
Try compatibility mode for windows xp, it's either service pack 2 or 3 if I remember correctly. Check the cutscenes and game work and you should be good. Doors tend to disappear a lot though.

>>4593953
Still runs way too fast while looking like this
I'd like to run in software mode too ideally, since I've seen it done before

>>4593962
fuck, forgot image
I took a picture instead of a screenshot since screenshots aren't working

>>4593962
Can't help you then, you could try asking on ttlg maybe?

Update on running Thief Gold in software mode on Windows 7:
Currently runs in software at 8-bit colour depth with no strange colours thanks to a registry fix, but the game runs way too fast still

Here is my normalfag review of Augustine's Revenge.

Ambitious design with fun rewards for exploring everything, but the level design is exasperating and occasionally misleading.
My favourite thing about it is the storytelling and the many "acts" of the mission. I also enjoyed some janky acrobatics.
My least favourite thing about it is the cramped, transitionless, labyrinth design and the shitload of keys.
Definitely not an easy map if you don't have a keen sense for finding secrets and orienting themselves.
The custom voices are fucking hilarious.
I had a good time and it held my attention. It almost gave me too much to explore, but no stray path ever branched and wandered excessively. Good judgement by mapmaker.
I got seriously stuck at a mandatory passage (trying to get to the third floor). All I could do was run around and sextuple check every room.
The loot placement and amount is often creative, but just as often unbelievable.
Guard placement was sometimes challenging, but mostly never demanded much strategy to bypass.
I was very eager to be done with it by the end.
I would not recommend this as a must-play or play-before-others, but there's too much effort in it to not check out sometime.

>>4593440
On your way to the temple you have a t-section. Each path provides an entry.

>>4594131
There's something about the crappily built labyrinth cityscape that appeals to me.

>>4594136
It's tolerable in the more open spaces, but all of those sharp angles in shoulder-width corridors kind of got to me. It's impressive for a one-man project, for sure.

>room full of locked chests
>they all have to be lockpicked
>not a single guard around
This is always profoundly cruel.

>>4594132
I didn't expect a vertical element in this FM, I really underestimated it. I didn't expect an alarm system on a ship too so things got pretty rowdy in there, but that's part of the fun. It's definitely an unique enviroment and a nice addition to the stuff TDP alone doesn't offer.
I thought invincible servants were meant to make everything more difficult, but they completely ignore Garrett, and so all those restrictions that take half of the objective list don't pose a problem.

>>4594131
>14k loot

Is this normal for FMs?
t. dumb anon who has never played any FM

>>4594410
I was just thinking what, from a game design perspective, what the point of locks are. The obvious one is that it creates massive tension in patrol-heavy areas and requires extra timing and strategy, but why are they put in empty areas? They force downtime, which isn't intrinsically negative, but I don't think I've seen them used strategically in that sense.

Maybe it's so subtle I appreciate it without even realizing it.

>>4594737
Not in the slightest, it's just what that author is obsessed with for some reason. He likes to put gigantic piles of loot all in one place and remove any meaning and satisfaction to picking it up and hearing the jingle. If you're going to get into FMs I would suggest staying away from Bryan Gleason's garbage until you're at least familiar with how FM author autism works.

was anyone else's immersion broken with the "cameras" in cragsleft? fantasy game and all that but it felt like an anachronism

>>4595375
it's not a camera, it's a periscope

>>4594969
They also give a sense of importance for what said locks conceal. When a locked door stops my semi-mindless initial exploration of a mansion I know I've found something different, it catches my attention. Even more if a key is needed.
What's important is not confusing this potential with realism. I understand that it's only logical that every guard in the barracks wants to protect his few arrows or coins but this takes away any value from every other lock.

>>4595448
but who was periscope

>>4594410
>>4595565

They are locked because that's what locks are for: Securing items against being stolen.

Here's my take on locks, keys and lockpicks in Thief OMs and FMs. OMs handle locks perfectly. Usually your lockpicks will be able to open most locks, and there will be 1 or 2 chokepoints in which you can only use a key. Let's call these unique locks. These are either part of the primary objective, or some special secondary objective, and sometimes it's just a secret piece of loot like Mynell's steak recipe.

FMs like to handle locks this way: 1-2 locks that you can use your lockpicks on, bullshit amount of different keys for every other door in the level. Most of the doors - wooden or not - are also not bashable. In Thief you could always forego the stealthy option of lockpicking/finding a key by bashing doors down if they were wooden. FMs like to rape this sense of choice by turning it into adventure game logic, where you can only progress if you've found every key in the game.

In Thief 1, getting the lockpicks was a big deal. Before you got them, every locked door had to be opened by switch or stealing a key. Now you were handed essential items for breaking and entering that opened virtually every door for you. And that's how lockpicks *should* make you feel, after all, that's why people use them in real life: to break into places that you'd normally need a key for.

Therefore I don't think it annoying or unrealistic that small chests with no/insignificant loot are locked. That's just what it's like. Workplace lockerrooms usually only have clothing, maybe some food or drink, casual shit. People still lock those things though.

>>4591845
It rips the realism from the game as well as the sense that the guards are actual people. How often has anyone in this thread at any given night freaked out about seeing something when it was just a shadow moving, something going bump in the night, or some other regular phenomena? Tons of times. Supreme Ghosting involves going through the level and just seeing every AI operating like clockwork. No confusion, no interaction, no searches or slight states of alarm. You know, regular shit guards might do whether you are there or not.

>>4590921
I'm not forbidding him to do as he likes, I'm arguing that it's a retarded way to play and it's a retarded thing to aspire to or encourage in Thief threads. It's a strategy so specific and removed from natural gameplay that I feel the need to voice how stupid it is.

And I don't think that supreme Ghosting would be impossible in one take. I think - depending on the mission - it involves the player knowing the map ahead of time and *taking* their time moving through it. Most of the reloads occur because the player wants to cut a stealth section short, i.e. moving to quickly, loudly, or visibly when they really should slam down on the shift key and move through deep shadows. So it's not even a decent ghosting attempt.

>>4596454
I mean u clearly haven't watched even one of that guy's videos. He takes it as cautiously as he has the time for and it still takes upwards of 3hours for each mission.

I'm not trying to argue it isn't a retarded way to play, but I also think normal ghosting is a retarded way to play, but if people want to do it then so be it.

>>4594132
Because of the mess I made on the ship, I think I've lost track of the guards' placement in this mission. There's two in the guardhouse near the gallow and a lot of them on the ship, right?
After escaping from the Rose of Bantry I had to deal with four guards looking for me in the streets. It was probably for a mistake I made, like leaving a knocked out hammerite near the temple's entrance, but did they appear out of thin hair or did I just miss them at first?

What the fuck do I do in Escape.
There's a million of buggers in every hall. should I really try sneaking past everything? Or even just run through everything and hope I get lucky?

>>4596869
I checked with Dromed. When you open the moneybox, 2 bow man and 2 BaffGuards teleport in the map.
>>4597030
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXb0zcEM-rI

Normalfag FM reviews continued: Please tell me top stop if this is gay edition.
Today's mission: Geller's Pride

Ah, now this is a thinking man's mission. Great attention to detail in all respects.
My favourite thing about it is how it's so concise, yet has depth and multiple ways to approach things.
My least favourite thing about it is the riddle for the final item. Too vague and too many interpretations for me.
A veteran player will be rewarded for his honed habits, and it feels good each time when one's intuition leads to a breakthrough.
There's a fun story in this mission, and the notes that connect the dots also hint to the player where something might be. Expert pacing and placement.
The unique guard mechanic in the mansion is an A+ idea, however, there isn't enough punishment for messing it up. Seems to be a fault of the AI.
Although the mansion is the focus of this mission, the area(s) outside of the walls are well developed and have some pleasing elements.
Loot was not a significant challenge, it trickled in naturally.
Guards weren't too difficult, so much as they made me stop and plan alternate routes.
I wished there was a little more to it by the end, but brevity is the soul of wit, and I was thankful for the experience.
I would definitely encourage anyone to make this a priority play.

>>4597725
My ending screen too.

Am I the only one who feels like a dick when killing burricks? When they start making that whining noise and running away I want to go and hug them and say sorry

>>4595375
I had some problems with that too. unlike the mechanists, the hammerites shouldn't have the precursor technology required to construct intelligent robots. that should mean that it's implied that a hammerite is monitoring those cameras in a control room somewhere. however, that control room never appears in the game, and that breaks the worldbuilding a bit.

Just started replaying the series, interested in getting back into some level editing.

Haven't touched dromed since the mid '00s, whats the best place these days to find resources, tutorials etc to start refreshing myself?

>>4597030
Those monsters are quite slow (and bugbeasts are the slowest enemy in the game, I think) and still vulnerable to your blackjack. Apes in particular have low health, so that balances their number and speed in combat. Still, although it's easy to get cornered in those corridors, it's easier to leave them behind. If a single ape catches you in the process it shouldn't be a problem. If you get in too many fights don't forget that those plums scattered around aren't simple fruits.
If you can't get past a certain zone without fighting, make some frogs explode and don't directly confront bugbeasts.

>>4597124
A scripted event, nice. While I don't always like them as something that interferes with the players' objective, unless it's really well played, I enjoy them when they're a consequence of the player's actions. It feels like a natural development of the mission's plot, directly experienced by the player. Sure, they can be pretty intrusive, but four guards patrolling the previously empty streets are fine.
While the previous mission tried something new design wise, this one had an interesting structure, a connection between two different enviroments, and experimented a little on a technical level, even if it didn't always turn out well.

Did anyone else use to make shitty drawings and paintings of Thief related things? Me and my friends loved doing this shit when we were kids. They're dogshit of course, but I picked up that hobby again, still with the skills of a lobotmized 12 year old. I just pick a relatively poignant screen of the game and try to make a screenshot style painting of it.

It's just something about the atmosphere and artstyle of the game that gets the artist in me going.

>>4598125
The TTLG editor's guild
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=85

>>4598367
I used to sketch some of the characters while studying, mainly chaos beasts and the occaional haunt or grimacing guard. During my first playthrough being hunted by such a variety of enemies really stuck with me, and even if I know them well now that impression is everlasting. Part of the charm of these games' atmosphere comes from who populates those dark alleys and dungeons, I suppose.

>>4599035
>Part of the charm of these games' atmosphere comes from who populates those dark alleys and dungeons, I suppose.

I feel the same. I'm not a huge zombie fan myself, but I am enticed by the idea of the undead occupying certain parts of the City. Like the Walled off section - in Assassins you can hear some servants talk about how the undead walk there.

Imagine if the undead were simply a part of your City, some of them living in the sewers, in graveyards, catacombs, and abandoned parts of the City. The sheer menace of their slow movement is enough to keep the mundane steampunk setting interesting for me.

Are you any good at art? I'm basically only just getting into it again.

>>4598564
Awesome thanks. Good to see ttlg is still going

C O C K R I N G S

How do you recolor parts of the ai skins in Krita?

>>4598010
Yeah, I was genuinely happy when I found out that I could just blackjack them too.

I don't wanna stab no dino-puppies

>>4598125
Nicked's tutorial is a good overview of the basics.
https://nickdablin.wordpress.com/2014/01/13/absolute-beginners-guide-to-creating-a-thief-2-mission-part-one/

>>4599539
Burricks aren't puppies. They're ponies. Got a mane and everything. Or maybe they're horses if modern pop culture has deteriorated your opinion of real ponies.

>>4599615
I've never heard a horse whimper or howl. also, no one ever rides them. they're the feral dog packs of the thief world. just look at how everyone (including garrett) looks down on ramirez for keeping pet burricks.

>>4599112
>Are you any good at art? I'm basically only just getting into it again.
Eh, not really. Let's say I never actively tried to improve, staying on the usual level. It's not a field where I feel motivated to try. Luckily monsters can be forgiving when it comes to anatomy or faces. Trying to capture the whole thing is a far more commendable attempt.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/02/war-stories-thief-the-dark-projects-signature-sneaking-almost-didnt-work/
Nice little video.

>>4529871
this until the end of times

>>4599613
Just ran through this one and so much came flooding back. Time to start thinking of an actual mission to make

Any good black and white fm?

>>4601839
I know "A Better Tomorrow" is B&W but I heard that it's spooky

>>4601839
Cryptic Realms
also spooky

>>4601839
Waterfront Racket is pretty good. It's not your conventional FM as it's pretty on rails, but it does a stellar job at recreating the film noir aesthetic.

>>4601845
> A Better Tomorrow
>>4601941
> Cryptic Realms
>>4602010
> Waterfront Racket

All done today and all of them are pretty good

Has anyone tried keyboard camera controls? Using a shitty laptop and I don't feel like using the touchpad, plus I don't have a mouse that I can plug in (obviously)

>>4602103
it's sub optimal and slow.

>>4549105

Tiny man with a Napoleon complex.

>>4583212
And no one edits the maps so textures repeat less. That's my beef with HD texture mods.

>A-are you alright? No, no, of course you are not alright. Sorry!

This video about the development of TDP has zero dislikes https://youtu.be/qzD9ldLoc3c

>>4603028
I really like his voice.
It cracks me up how for this and other videos I've seen, they use the neutral npcs outside Bafford's who don't react to you as examples of the game's ai.

>>4549105
>not Droopy
http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Droopy_Sound

>>4556742
>decisions you make have consequences
>retarded
Look at the babelet

>>4565473
>tfw someone could build a real Bafford's manor and you could close your eyes and navigate through the entire thing with ease

>>4572514
>>4572717
Finally, someone gets it.

>>4603116
It's not really a decision when in a stealth game you either have to harm a couple of innocent bystanders who have literally nothing to do with your mission, or to not do stealth in order to proceed. You can't honestly be arguing that the thot manor isn't an unnecessary bottleneck that serves no purpose. There isn't even a possibility for those women to go and call the cops so they'd be waiting in the apartment for your return. It's completely pointless. The is no other area in the entire trilogy where on all difficulties you either have to harm people or have to be seen.
And since you pluralized decisions I assume you mean that the golden cherub scene also counts as a decision. It doesn't. You have to read Karras' scripture in order to complete the mission. And you have to do it in a dead end where the only escape route is past the thing that spawns to guard that dead and upon you reading the scripture. There is no such thing as a singular alternative and it can't constitute a choice.

>>4603129
>full wall of whining
Not even gonna read all that shit, you're just upset you can't have a 100% perfect clear handed to you by the game on a silver platter. Learn to deal.

>>4603260
Maybe you can demonstrate a method to "perfectly clear" that section in a way that requires patience and skill, and careful navigation of a level that was designed around improvisational stealth, as opposed to the official solution among a near infinite array of emergent ways "being handed to you on a silver platter". Without saving of course.
I mean it must be possible, based on what you said. It can't just be a badly designed linear section that isn't compatible with the emergent design of the rest of the game right? I mean that would just mean that you're full of shit which you obviously aren't. Afterall only intellectually honest people are
>>4603260
>not even gonna read all that shit

>>4556742
1. You can just walk through the manor with the women without them being able to do much. While it's not too easy to ghost through, I wouldn't lose that much thought over it.

2. The golden child is a scripted event that always happens and is not glitched. It's there to freak the player out.

Thief was not designed around the autistic endeavour to never ever be detected. The game is as much about contingency plans, and planned detections as it is about staying hidden.

garrett's voiced line upon entering lady louisa's suite suggests that he's already been noticed, as a part of the mission's narrative. I think it's supposed to be a comic relief.

I think that the thot manor works if you consider that T2 Garret is to James Bond as T1 Garrett was to a D&D rogue

What are some real life castles with an oppressive interior? I don't want to copy FMs.

>tfw finally got software mode working
Granted, I did it by just straight up running it on Windows 98, but boy is it comfy

discuss

>>4605052
normalfag gang

>>4604187
It's just a weird deviation from normal level design. Every other area in the game is designed to give players the ability to navigate through the various systems any way they choose, but this area is
>>4604270 >comic relief
and you have to go through it and experience the comic relief. It's not at all like the rest of the environmental storytelling in the series where the player stumbles upon something interesting through nonlinear free exploration. You are funneled into this one scene that is absolutely mandatory even though it has nothing to do with the plot or the mission. It's not like the alarm scene in Blackmail where the watch discovers that the sheriff has been murdered.
You know, there were complaints for years after the release of both TDP and TMA that some loot items were impossible to pick up due to a glitch because apparently according to some taffers the game should have been designed around the autistic endeavour to get every piece of loot.
>>4604187
>The golden child is not glitched
Yes it is and has always been. It runs to the kitchen and tries to tug on the servant's shirt but the servant doesn't react. What else could that possibly be for than alerting them of an intruder?

>>4605057
In The Unwelcome Guest, you could completely avoid having to go through Lady Louisa's Suite. There was another way close to the area that would become Castle Carlyle in Life of the Party, that would take you to another side of Angelwatch, and you could climb up to the ball room through an open window.

>>4604974
Did you use an actual separate PC or should that work with a VM?

>>4605057
>Yes it is and has always been. It runs to the kitchen and tries to tug on the servant's shirt but the servant doesn't react. What else could that possibly be for than alerting them of an intruder?

What an inflationary use of the word glitch. The only glitchy aspect of the mechanical cherub would be if it presses a non-existant button in the air - but that hardly matters. The fact that it tries to alert guards and servants and fails is not necessarily a glitch. The first mechnical cherub is a forced encounter, unless you use an invisibility potion.

The consensus is this: The mechanical cherub was likely added by the developers simply to give players a jump. Getting an alert penalty for a simple scare script doesn't make any fucking sense.

On top of that, almost every other stealth game in history has entire levels and segments with forced alerts. Metal Gear Solid has multiple instances where the alarm goes off and you have to break stealth, the Deus Ex games did it, anon anon.

The point is that you're completely over-evaluating two minute, one-off instances in Life of the Party, applying entirely anachronistic ambitions of never being spotted ever, which was never the design paradigm nor how it was played or should be played.

>>4605303
>The fact that it tries to alert guards and servants and fails is not necessarily a glitch.
Then what the hell is it? If I wanted to freak out a player with a new creepy mob, I'd have it chase the player with its loud clanging feet making a ruckus and forcing the player to lose it so that he doesn't draw attention. If it doesn't try to run for help, what is it doing. "Not necessarily a glitch" is not a response or a refutation.
>Getting an alert penalty for a simple scare script doesn't make any fucking sense.
Oh, now an alert is a penalty and it makes no sense to force a player to a situation where an alert is unavoidable? I'm sure there isn't anything in this thread or this particular chain on discussion that isn't related to that...
>Metal Gear Solid has multiple instances where the alarm goes off and you have to break stealth,
Metal Gear is and has never been a stealth game. It has fucking boss fights, turret segments and a several minute stairway climb where a literal army of pre-aggroed soldiers come at you as cannon fodder to be put down with a machine gun. It's Kojima's linear setpiece showcase in a James Bond format.
>applying entirely anachronistic ambitions of never being spotted ever, which was never the design paradigm nor how it was played or should be played.
I don't think you're playing with a full deck because the self-contradiction of that sentence is obvious. Implying that something should be something it never was is not anachronistic. Implying that something should be something it used to be but changed in time is anachronistic. Chronos = time

>>4605197
I used an actual Windows 98 machine, but since software rendering doesn't use any hardware acceleration, I think it /might/ work on a VM alright, but don't take my word for it

>>4605346
Nigger you're taking this instance way too seriously and are getting way too defensive.

A glitch is a goof / hitch. It's when something in a logically programmed system acts differently than intended. Nothing hints at the fact that the mechanical cherub acts different from what was intended which is

1) Spook the player by suddenly appearing
2) Go to alert people, but failing, because it's a mechanical kid that's just goofing around in the guards/servants eyes

A forced alert WOULD be a penalty. Now you can use invisibilty potions to avoid being seen by the cherub altogether, but essentially it is there to scare you, run of, and fail to alert anyone.

Metal Gear Solid is definitely called a STEALTH-action game. Metal Gear is the only proper stealth game I can think of in an 8-bit/16-bit format. Clearly you're talking out your ass. And just because you have boss-fights doesn't mean it's not a stealth game. An assassin that sneaks all the way to his target, fights and kills the target - thus being detected - and sneaks back out doesn't mean he wasn't acting stealthily

On top of that, you don't know what anachronistic means and are being Dunning-Krueger levels of condescending about it. YOUR modern day ambition, likely fuelled by achievements in modern games that reward you for going undetected throughout the entire game, is ANACHRONISTIC to the design philosophy and general playstyle that Thief cultivates and has cultivated since release.

You're essentially whining about 2 tiny instances in a game where it's slightly more difficult to go undetected. Following methods could be employed if you cared for creativity: Use invisibility potions. Use noisemaker arrows. Blackjack people. Distract entities by throwing objects and then passing by them. Just because the game doesn't offer you an easy way out to sneak by everything without any sacrifice, risk or skill to committ to doesn't mean it's badly designed.

https://youtu.be/IEamEGJyhEg
https://youtu.be/57DCdys83Bo

>>4606238
I guess this will not get resolved. I disagree about your definition of a glitch and the intended design of the cherub. There's no evidence either way. I disagree that MGS qualifies as a stealth game due to its contradictory design. That's full opinion and nothing else. Also I still disagree about the thot manor because in all other instances such a high-risk challenge with very small odds of success on all methods except one is an optional extra area, like the turret room in Soulforge. Not a linear mandatory bottleneck in the intro area to the real mission. The worst mission in the trilogy iirc does that too. Thieves Guild has a civilian chef staring down an area that is the only way through to your objective and the only reliable method through is blackjacking*, which I do still think is antithetical to the LGS design philosophy. Especially in a mission where lore-wise it's imperative to never be detected and identified so that you'd have two criminal gangs at each others throats instead of joining forces to hunt you down for screwing with both of them. If you really think about it, tactically it would be wiser for Garrett to actually kill a witness who saw him.
>>4606238
>you don't know what anachronistic means and are being Dunning-Krueger levels of condescending about it.
Sorry I misunderstood. I thought you were referring to the ambitions of the game not the player and that's where I saw the contradiction and the irony.
*three instances of this in Thieves Guild actually, but one of them you can bypass by applying some ridiculous though surprisingly reliable acrobatics. The designers tried to force you to do one thing but that doesn't always work when your game is Thief, not Thi4f.

Escape! is the worst mission I've played. It's just pure trial and error and it's seriously hampering my Thief experience

>>4606921
Someone asks Stephen Russell what's his favorite character that he's acted: "I don't like to think about it like that. It's like naming your favorite child."
Someone asks Vin Diesel what his fav-"Riddick."

>>4607121
Stephen only says that because he's on the zenijewthesda payroll now and if he said something that isn't Cogsworth or Nick Valentine he'd get a slap on the wrist.

city missions are the capeshit of thief fms

>>4607464
Not really. Mansions with a dark secret would be the capeshit of thief FMs.

>>4607550
those stopped being popular like ten years ago

>>4607550
Really?

>>4607121
Implying his favourite voice acting role was not the drunk bum in the Yellow Tulip (Arx Fatalis)

>>4607550
If there's one thing I've recently learned it's that you can never have enough gothic mansions. The FM scene is literred with poorly done city missions, and very, VERY few gothic horror missions.

Is there a way to make blackjacking work from all directions in TDS like it does in the first two? I liked the idea that Garrett could just hit someone in the face that fucking hard.

>>4607116
I'm still conflicted about the last three missions of TDP and the small space they've got at the end of the game. They feel like wasted potential, I really like the plot twist, the new enemies and part of the visuals, they could be more than what they are. Quality of the missions aside though, the narrative crescendo is good, and spending more time with beasts and supernatural stuff would give away the mystery and overall impact. The villain centered game comes next after all so there's something for everyone, the Trickster is fine as a last chapter in a game full of different adventures.

>>4529750
I dropped TDP at Thieves' Guild.

>>4608343
TDP doesn't have that mission, TG does; use GoldToDark to patch your game

>>4608343
>dropping a great game because of one shitty level

>>4607116
just use the sword, it really isn't that hard

>>4608504
I finally beat it. Now it seems like I could've just ran throught it all. If only it was easier to sneak, I guess I would've found it okay.

Also, what's up with the frogs? Can I deal with them in any manner?

>>4608510
they can be blackjacked or shot from a distance.