/vr/ - Retro Games

It's just a meme, nobody is that retarded.

>>4523610
>not holding it the chad way

>>4523646
What does that mean?

>>4523610
>anyone who criticizes a bad controller must be retard who doesn't understand how to hold it
It shouldn't have to be held in different configurations at all if it were a decently designed controller. Plus nobody actually says that - if they did they would complain that you need four thumbs to use a Dual Shock.

>>4523662
>retarded meme is criticism

It's very clear at a glance that a major factor in the whole design of the N64 was to consciously avoid similarity to Playstation, to the point of awkwardness.

>>4523662
>It shouldn't have to be held in different configurations at all if it were a decently designed controller.
How does that make any sense? What's wrong with having alternate ways to hold it depending on what suits a game best?

>>4523610
it's a shite controlla m8 deal wif it

>>4523673
Gramps, you're full of shit on this one.
Also remember the playstation controller OG was just a SNES controller with longer prongs, 2 extra shoulder buttons and a shit-tier d-pad. No analogs.

>>4523610
Because they're underage who never used one

>>4523614
Welcome to the internet my naive friend. How's your first day going so far?

>>4523660
It means he has never kissed a girl and is unable to find a picture of a frog holding an N64 controller

>>4523779
I agree completely which makes it EXTRA sad that Nintendo just abandoned their own controller design for three long silly generations

>>4523610
>How hard is this to understand for people?
As hard as understanding a joke about bad design?

>>4523797
They didn't abandon it, the SNES d-pad is still there, and they added 2 extra face buttons.
I know you have a hateboner for the N64 but come on.

>>4523610
The controller is fine.
/v/ is just full of retarded children.

>>4523610
>durr hurr you need 3 hands to use it
No one legitimately thinks this.

>>4523769
Because it's entirely unnecessary.
It's a controller, you hold it with both hands and you should be able to hit any button on it with one singular simple hand configuration. Why on earth would split it into two configurations? Are you not getting this?

>>4523901
>tfw even when the 3D stick is all worn out and loose it's still more precise than modern controller sticks

>>4523919
That's bullshit.

>>4523919
Yeah its fucking weird. My very worn down atomic purple controller still seems more responsive then any of the controllers I've bought in ages.
Dunno where this retarded 3rd arm meme came from but I'd personalty have more enjoyment growing 3rd the ever using a Dualshock controller again.

>>4523938
I tried playing N64 games like Starfox and Sin and Punishment (where aiming is important) with Gamecube, X360 and PS4 controllers, and none of them are as precise as my old busted N64.

>>4523805
You know damn well the N64's face buttons are a radical departure from the SNES's while the Playstation's face buttons are nearly identical.

>>4524074
Eh, the change in size isn't really a problem. It's not the only controller to have buttons of different sizes.
Anyway, point is, the design of the SNES controller is still there. d-pad, face buttons, L and R. It's only really lacking the select button.

>>4524086
Well it's 2018 and time has proven conclusively that the layout that Nintendo themselves created then gave away is the optimal controller layout. Even Nintendo themselves have caved and readopted it. Now they're fucking around with their dpads and someone will probably steal the cross from them. They just can't help themselves.

I loved the n64 controller. I was a little past toy-playing age but I'd still pretend it was a space ship in secret

>>4524096
N64's controller was experimental, and only very few developers actually took advantage of the different ways to use it, but the basic "dpad and face/shoulder buttons" is still there, it didn't go anywhere.

If they had made the Z and L buttons identical in function, people would have understood.

>>4523919
Aiming in Winback feels so fucking tight even with my loose as fuck stick

>>4523610
Easy, people that haven't played it and have just looked at the controller in pictures online.

>>4523913
It’s not unnecessary. Unlike the DualShock, the N64 controller let’s you have optimal hand positions for both the D-Pad and Control Stick, while the DualShock always has a suboptimal hand position for the control sticks due to them being pasted on after the original PS1 controller.

>>4524348

Anon, no, that's wrong. The guy you're talking to is right. There is no need for variable control configurations at the hardware level, it just means the hardware is wrong if it doesn't work with everything.

With a real controller, you get the dpad and the analog stick. If a game only uses one, that fine, but there are games made that use both. The N64 can't do this.

Compare Rogue Squadron with its sequel. You can use the dpad to issue commands to your squad, stuff like "attack at will", "attack my targets", or "attack ground targets". This could have been in Rogue Squadron 1.

The dualshock design, with analog sticks, is versatile and effective whereas the N64 controller has a demonstrable case of ineffectiveness.

>>4524358
>Compare Rogue Squadron with its sequel. You can use the dpad to issue commands to your squad, stuff like "attack at will", "attack my targets", or "attack ground targets". This could have been in Rogue Squadron 1.
Are you honestly defending the GameCube controllers’s d-pad? Sure it’s fine when it’s used like a makeshift button in 3D games but it’s absolutely garbage for controlling 2D games because it’s suboptimally positioned and suboptimally sized.

And that’s exactly the problem. You just don’t get it.

>>4524361
>Are you honestly defending the GameCube controllers’s d-pad?

No, only a retard would make such an assumption, too.

>>4524363
The Dualshock’s left control stick is literally in the same position as the Gamecube’s D-pad. The assumption is completely reasonable.

>>4524364

No it's not, you're ass-pulling an argument about dpad quality when that's irrelevant to the argument. Now you're trying to change it to something about dualshock/GCN button placement.

This has absolutely nothing to do with a provable case of the N64 controller being unable to do something because it has a "three possible configuration" design which prevents simultaneous use of all of its buttons and analog stick. The build quality of any particular part of any competing pad is completely irrelevant because that's not material to the discussion. The N64 pad still has the design flaw.

You're pretty slow so we have to boil this down to simple terms: If you were to compare a hypothetical perfect controller to the N64 controller, the objective problem the N64 controller would have in the comparison is that it can't use all three modes at once and there are games could use those buttons. Whichever controller you use for comparison doesn't matter past that. Don't put your eye out with your keyboard in your next reply.

Unless you have three hands, a full third of the controller is almost unusable. That means the no matter what you're doing, you're rendering rendering 5 or 6 different inputs (if we count the analog as being the same number of inputs as a 4 button d-pad) inconvenient to use.

It's a retarded design and that's why it was never seen again. The only reason they did it was to avoid looking like the playstation pad, which was a stupid thing to want to avoid anyway, because the playstation pad just looks like an SNES pad.

They still hadn't fully kicked the habit when they designed the gamecube controller, and had to give it retarded button shapes instead.

>>4524369
My argument is not about build quality but position (and its relative, size).

There’s a finite amount of space on these controllers, so inevitably something will not have an optimal position, or even be the optimal size. On DualShock, in order to fit in the control sticks, they had to tuck them on the bottom. Sure, they are reachable from the normal position, but IMO they still feel awkward.

N64 dodges this issue by having different hand positions, where the analogue sticks and d-pad respectively have enough room to be large and well positioned for ones fingers.

3 hand jew thread

>>4524378
>My argument is not about build quality

>>4524361
>it’s suboptimally positioned and suboptimally sized.

Should I even bother reading the rest of your stupid post? You still haven't addressed the point: The N64 controller has something it can't do. The Dualshock at worst has something you personally might feel less comfortable doing than on some other controller.

>>4524375
>It's a retarded design and that's why it was never seen again
No, it was never used again because Nintendo’s market research concluded that one of the reasons N64 never took off in Japan was that the large size of the controller (to accomodate different hand positions) intimidated Japanese people with small hands.

How underage are most of you? The controller was created during a transition. It was versatile in being able to accommodate 2D games via the d-pad and the new 3D with the analog stick. Different way of holding the controller for different games. Also, the PlayStation Dual Analog controller, which lacks the rumble of the DualShock, was released after the N64.

>>4524381
Position and size have nothing to do with build quality. I’m not sure how much you would have to lack in mental processing to think that.

>The N64 controller has something it can't do. The Dualshock at worst has something you personally might feel less comfortable doing than on some other controller.
Well, I suppose Nintendo wanted players to always feel comfortable.

>>4524385

Here's another fun exercise for someone this stupid: Go figure out when I said "build quality". I never have. It's part of your retarded ass-pull when you went off on a tangent about the GCN dpad even though it has nothing to do with the argument.

And you STILL haven't addressed the point. You don't get it, these are objective arguments. If they're true, then the N64 controller is WRONG.

>>4524384

Yeah but if you screw up during a transition then that doesn't make up for the fact that it's a fuckup. The 3D transition is a graveyard of poorly thoughtout mistakes because it was new, but that still means mistakes were made.

>>4524398
It's not a fuckup, it's a great controller. No one, literally no one complained about it. Except for the analog stick that'd break easily.

>>4523610
Because the "hurr 3 hands" thing was started by people who never in their lifetime held the controller in their hands.

>>4524630
You can go to the usenet archive and find no shortage of people criticizing the N64 controller although nearly half the complaints are in fact about the analog stick wearing out. People were wearing out analog sticks in freaking 1996 which really says something but there are plenty of people making the same criticisms as in this thread. "1/3 of the controller is inaccessible at any time, face buttons are too small and high, controller is too big overall" and of course plenty of superficial criticisms of its silliness. All these criticisms, regardless of validity are addressed by the same rebuttal "you've never used it".

It's actually pretty remarkable how similar their arguments are to the ones itt which is really funny considering we've had twenty years of perspective, twenty years of cottage N64 stick industry, 20 years of natural controller evolution, 20 years for everyone to have definitely used an n64 controller and even after all this time, all this perspective, all this objectivity and the debate is still almost exactly the same.

>>4524676
There's nothing wrong with the N64 ergonomics.

It just looks silly.

>>4524676
>usenet archive
These niggers were ridiculous fanboys anyway, it was pre-/v/ internet vidya autism.
Anyway I'd be interested on reading about the stick wearing out in 1996, do you have any link?
>face buttons are too small and high
What's your opinion on the Genesis model 2/Saturn XYZ buttons, gramps?

>>4524681
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.video.nintendo/Yt_6cwisj_Y/EtaBEnktFcUJ
In all fairness this particular discussion from '96 is about demo controllers at Toys R Us and lots of people are still talking about calibration, which does help controllers that are starting to wear out (and ones that were actually miscalibrated) but the final post is someone very clearly insisting that one of the controllers at his Toys R Us is for sure broken then by '97 there are numerous discussions about definitely worn out controllers. As far as Sega gen 4-5 controllers it's true that the XYZ buttons are too small and bitd I personally preferred the arcade sticks. It's my arcade roots that cause my personal preference for 6 face buttons but time has proven that for 3D games, designed around the controller four face buttons + four shoulder buttons is better.

>>4524715
>demo controllers at Toys R Us

>>4524081
They looks like catch small cock

two words
gamecube babies

>>4524715
I don't think I've ever come across a demo unit for a particular console without ever seeing a broken stick at least once. People would break that shit on purpose. What chance did N64, especially, have?

>>4524761
>>4524719
There are still multiple discussions in '97 about what is definitely N64 analog stick wear outs on peoples' home console and that was before the Mario Party stickpocalypse in '98.

>>4524783
I mean yeah, the stick wearing out is the only legitimate non-meme criticism for the controller. It does wear out over use.
The Mario party stickpocalypse is what destroyed most people's controllers though.
Still though, as other anons mentioned, even all loose and worn out, these sticks are still working, they just don't go back to the center and stay firm anymore, but it doesn't fuck up the actual controls in the game as these people were saying on the Toys R Us posts.
At most, the only way gameplay is affected is that you may have to push harder for some games (for example Zelda) in order to run at full speed. But it still works.
There's also ways to fix them (not replace them for other kind of sticks, I mean actual restauration).
I heard japanese N64 controllers are more durable, haven't had the chance to buy one myself and see if that's true.

The only two controllers I've had "wear out" are n64 (i don't like mario party) and gamecube (played a lot of melee). every other nintendo controller, and every controller/handheld i've ever had have been fine

>>4524794
>Still though, as other anons mentioned, even all loose and worn out, these sticks are still working, they just don't go back to the center and stay firm anymore, but it doesn't fuck up the actual controls in the game as these people were saying on the Toys R Us posts.
It really does.
>At most, the only way gameplay is affected is that you may have to push harder for some games (for example Zelda) in order to run at full speed. But it still works.
The worn out gimbals mean you never get full travel on the stick. That means you can't achieve full speed unless the game was programmed to only use (for example) 75% of the stick's movement before hitting maximum input condition. The resulting dead zone around the rest position also makes fine control maddeningly difficult, like trying to do an 8 minute nurburgring lap in a Jeep Wrangler.
>There's also ways to fix them (not replace them for other kind of sticks, I mean actual restauration).
I just refurbed four controllers with new bowls, gimbals and sticks from Kitsch-Bent. They need de-flashing from the mould but are overall of satisfactory quality, just wish they offered replacement top covers/gates as these wear unevenly too.
>I heard japanese N64 controllers are more durable, haven't had the chance to buy one myself and see if that's true.
They are apparently lubricated from the factory. I've treated my refurbed units to a liberal coating of silicone spray.

>>4524916
I guess it depends on how worn out your stick is. My 2 fairly beaten up controllers still work fully, although it's noticeable they're loose.

>>4524924
Left is used, right is new.

The amount of slop present was, at a guess, close to 25% of stick travel i.e utterly unplayable. Even the less worn ones had a noticeable dead zone around centre but new is tight as a drum.

The centering spring also plays a part so be sure to stretch it out a bit so it can do its job effectively.

>>4524715
>One time i saw some little punk kid beating on a PSX
controller for no reason.
>Calling it PSX
>1996

This is obviously fake.

Playing mario party fucked up my control and my hand

>>4525085

>>4523779
What a surprise, he's always spouting bullshit.

>>4523610
I allways found the n64 controller to suit me perfectly no complaints here

>>4524384
>the PlayStation Dual Analog controller, which lacks the rumble
Not the Jap one, even the international ones still have pads for it as well as space in the handle.

>>4523610
It's called humor. You can go back to /pol/ now since you'll never grasp the concept.

>>4525085
Fuck off you shit meme using revisionist hipster hack.

>>4523610
Honestly, that controller is the closest any controller has ever gotten to being good for FPSs for me. I used to love Turok, although reaching over to the dpad was a pain. But that was just to change ammo types and turn on the map.

>>4528708
you can always tell someone is a faggot when they bring up /pol/ when nothing /pol/ related was mentioned

>>4524715
>Why didn't you say to him "YO MAN, YOU PUNK ASS BITCH, DON'T MAKE ME BEAT YOUR ASS!!!"
>:-)

man '96 was wholesome

semi-related question: are replica n64 controllers pretty good? My original joysticks have about 15 degrees of loosely jiggling around.

>>4531484
No, you should buy the Kitsch-Bent gears/Stick/Bowl and replace the original ones. Buy a special grease too, I think it's an acrylic one.

It'll be like new, you'll spend around 10 bucks.

You should buy at least 4 or each piece, so you can fix other controllers or your own controller in the future.

Also, buy a sand, there can be some rough edges that are easily fixable by sanding.

http://store.kitsch-bent.com/

>>4523646
A chad can't play to videogames.

>>4530396
It was a magical time

>>4523901
I still have my controller from when I was a kid don't play Mario party 1 problem solved also hold it on the outside arms like a man

I grew up on Saturn and I disliked both the PS and N64 controller, though I liked the SNES controller which is weird hearing everybody say it's exactly the same as PS, I found them quite different especially the D pad and hand placement. I found N64 to be the most unpleasant to use out of all of them.

>>4531525
They may play the latest FIFA or something, they just don't brag about being a gaymer nor talk about it to girls.

>>4523610
So that OP can make stupid b8 like this.

>>4532408
Not an argument

>>4523610
It's the worst most uncomfortable controller ever made. So unless you're a mutant with 3 hands, stick with an alternative 2 handle third party controller.

>>4523938
The n64 control stick has a smaller deadzone then other controlers and the fact that it is longer then most means that larger thumb movements translate into smaller, more precision movements of the stick. On top of that the straight up down orientation of the thumb while holding it leads to your thumbs movements being equivalent to the stick, while the modern grip which has your hands tilted for better ergonomics makes it so that you move your thumb on the diagonal too with same movement

>>4532064
...how do you hold your snes controller?