/vr/ - Retro Games

>>4505927
So why were scoreboards a thing?

>>4505927
What is a good balance for credits? Final fight is said to be on the tough side.

Home ports tend to do 3 or so.

Only a few arcade games are relatively easy to 1CC such as contra and renegade. But even contra limits your continued to 3!

>>4505941
This is why people 1CC, it's hard to say what amount of coins is a good balance. It's tought but it's what it is.

>>4505931
Why do they reset after power off? Why do they flip back to 00 if you use 10 continues?

>>4505946
I don't think 1cc are a definitive difficulty setting either, a 1cc on Batsugun is definitely much easier than a 1cc in DOJ WL

>>4505946
*Number of coins, fuc me. Anyway, you can always try to challenge yourself to still credit feed them but trying to use less and less coins each time.

>>4505941
So the Xbox360 remaster had a vault mode that rewarded you for clearing each stage individually in one credit, then the whole game under 9 credits (1 credit to start)

>>4505951
Of course, difficulty depends on the game, but one coin seems like a reasonable standard as it's also tied to scoring.

>>4505948
Dude if you use more than 10 continues your score is going to be so shit you're not going to show up on the scoreboard since in most cases it resets every time you continue. Aren't the machines meant to stay on, though?

>>4505960
Of course the machines were turned off overnight, the hi score table should really be called high scores of today.

Funny that you mentioned score, because Final Fight had horrendously random scoring. Sometimes drums drop items worth 10 000 points, sometimes food, sometimes nothing.

>>4505967
Sure, Final Fight is not a good game for scoring, but OP is speaking in general terms. Some games have intricate scoring systems, for others the whole point is to score an are infinite, for others you can't continue at all... I know OP is a troll but it's such a bad argument, man.

>>4505967
Wrong, you can always get gold/diamonds by doing certain input when destroying a barrel, there are even macros for that shit but it's doable to do wihout it as well.

>>4506057
Yeah I noticed they always do a super joy next to a drum to drop a jewel, what's the input for dropping food though?

>>4505927
>arcade games were intended to be credit fed
>posts game that was meant to be played on one credit
dumbfag op
https://tcrf.net/Final_Fight_(Arcade)#Ending

>>4506057
How do I make food items come out more consistently in barrels that are supposed to drop them?

>>4506062
It's pushing a direction some frames after/before destroying a barrel, I can do it okayish but I wish there was a more detailed guide or something.

>>4506069
You can't I think, only gold items, food's "luck pattern" is more complex and not as manipulable.

>>4506065
These trolls aren't even trying or are just that ignorant.

>>4506065
That's it? All the trouble to 1cc and all you get are some developers ugly faces?
BORING

>>4505927
arcade games were designed to accumulate wealth by providing a desirable product, guess what op? the same is true for every video game ever made.

>>4506071
One thing I noticed is that if I finish stage 1 faster, then food appears more frequently in stage 2. Might be because the rank is connected with time spent in the game. For example, beating Damnd quickly with infinite punches VERSUS letting him jump in and out.

>>4506062
For gold it's pushing a direction some frames after/before destroying a barrel, the superjoy makes it easier probably but superjoy alone doesn't give jewel. For food I don't think you can't manipulate it as easy.

>>4506073
I did know about it, believe it or not.

>>4506074
1cc is supposed to be a fun challenge, not "all trouble", dunno maybe your a fag

>>4506080
By trolls I was referring to OP and others guys like him.

>>4506083
I'm definitely homosexual, yes.

v*udi, don't be baited by the SOR3 shitter.

>>4506093
Take this shit to discord, c*

>>4505927
Yeah but the good games which are usually the ones people still remember were still fun to play even if you didn't credit feed and are possible to beat without doing it.

>>4506084
At some point you're going to need to "credit feed" the game to learn how to play it. This isn't avoidable, unless you're playing these for the first time in 2018 with the benefit of rom images and savestates. If you want to "git gud" you actually have to play the game. Playing the game actually requires credits. Credits actually require money. You didn't pop in a quarter and 1cc a damned arcade machine the first time you played it.

If you want to make the argument that there's some tangible difference between "just pumping quarters into a machine" and "just pumping quarters into a machine and playing 'carefully' while you do it" you can try, but I'm just going to laugh at you. The end result is that you fed a shitload of money into a machine in order to master a game, regardless of whatever "strategy" you were personally following while you did it.

>>4505956
The Xbox 360/PS3 version of Final Fight is kinda shitty though.

>>4506590
Why is that? Looked Arcade perfect to me

>>4506553
If there's no tangible difference how come credit feeders universally suck dick while people who advocate 1cc'ing actually know how to play? You can even see it in this thread since you got taught about Final Fight scoring by an actual player.

>>4505960
>Of course, difficulty depends on the game, but one coin seems like a reasonable standard as it's also tied to scoring.

The hope of both the developer and the arcade owner is that you never get that good though. They want and need players to be putting as many quarters in the machines as possible.

Once it gets to a point where someone can put a quarter into a machine and keep it tied up then it's not doing either of them any good.

>>4505927
It ultimately doesn't even matter what the intention was - I certainly enjoy going for 1CCs more than credit-feeding and that is valid enough reason to do it.

>>4506553
If you credit feed you're very likely going to spend more than if you go for a 1CC. I mean if you can't beat the 3rd stage boss you're gonna have a bad time in the 4th stage.

>>4506667
>The hope of both the developer and the arcade owner is that you never get that good though
No, the best case scenario for them is that you not only get that good but far better than that and go for a 2-ALL and then scoring because that's how you'll provide them with constant profit over a long period of time.

>>4506694
They get far, far more profit from under performing credit feeders than skilled 1cc players. The goal of an arcade owner is to have as many quarters as possible end up in his bank at the end of the day. A game that remains popular for a long time is good, but only if it gives a good return.

Any scenario where someone occupies an arcade cabinet for half an hour or more on a single quarter is terrible for an arcade owner. Too many people doing that in his arcade will bankrput him real fast.

Isn't it cool when you noticed tiny improvements in later titles in the genre?
>you can't infinite combo enemies (punch, punch, turn) forever in Cadillacs, they will ALWAYS get knocked down after about 10 hits
>you can drop the current weapon you're carrying if you successfully connect a superjoy
This feature would have been VERY useful in Final Fight since the only way to drop weapons in that game is to get hit.
>Hanna inherited Cody's knife knockdown-stab, except they turned it into a 3 hit combo
I know Final Fight is awesome but it really makes me appreciate the later games that much more.

>>4506702
>They get far, far more profit from under performing credit feeders than skilled 1cc players
If you are putting groups against individuals, then yes. Individual 1cc players will give them more profit than individual credit feeders, however. The players will occupy very similar amounts of time whether they are credit feeding or not too. If someone is credit feeding they will still want to see the whole game, no? And more importantly, there is some consistency with dedicated players. Credit feeders have no attachment, they will drop arcade games very easily as they have done.

>>4506702
One more thing, if time spent is the most important factor then having as many 1cc players as possible is beneficial here too. They will have shorter sessions as they're learning the games due to quitting at a game over, rather than continuing until they see the credits. The only worry would be infinitely looping games.

>>4506713
Like I say, whatever gets them quarters is what they cared about.

>>4506709
It doesn't have to be either 1cc super players vs credit feeding casuals, you know. Most people are more middle of the road, they want to get moderately competent at the game so they're not dying every 20 seconds but they don't necessarily care about setting highscore or speedrun world records either.

>>4506719
Which made for some great game design because they have to get quarters from newbies, intermediate players and experts alike. To appeal to newbies you need games that look, sound and feel great. To appeal to intermediate players you need games that are fair, polished and have smooth difficulty curves. To appeal to experts you need a lot of depth and extra challenges, such as loops, secrets and scoring. With arcade games the stars really aligned in many ways, the best ways to get money were also the the best ways to make good games.

>>4506727
1cc players ARE the middle of the road. People who play competitive for score and loop games multiple times are the advanced players.

>>4506604
>DRM
>Achievement popups that cannot be turned off
>Can't adjust settings by default

>>4506730
They don't need quarters from experts at all. Experts are actually bad for their profits.

Fighting games are an exception and part of the reason they survived better thsn most other arcade genres. The real draw is player vs player, so one expert only uses his quarter but keeps many hopefulls putting their quarters in hoping to beat him.

An expert playing Galaga for two hours straight is almost costing him more in electricity than he's making off the game. Let alone that he's taking up space where bad players might be putting money in.

>>4506738
Ah yeah I just remembered the original release had always online DRM but thankfully they removed it with a patch.

>>4506707
My favorite mechanic of all time
>throwing grenades while running deal several times more damage, for some reason

>>4506743
>Experts are actually bad for their profits.
Not really. Read shmuplations interviews with developers, they clearly state that they try to keep expert players hooked with extra challenges. 90's arcade devs also mention how they had to rely more on advanced players because the casuals have all moved to home consoles and the like.

>>4506732
I still think 1ccs are still fairly advanced so let's just agree to disagree.

>>4506748
I'm talking about arcade owners. Devs have a slightly different mandate and to them appealing to experts gives good credibility to a game which helps sales.

>>4506752
Arcade owners had a lot of sway, there are many instances of arcade developers having to change games to please arcade owners. Yet despite that, loops and scoring persisted and were even a part of what kept arcades afloat after the casuals have moved on.

>>4506753
Soon after casuals moved on is when arcades started dying...

>>4506756
That's why I said they're more profitable as a group due to the sheer numbers. It's also why they're unreliable sources of profit.

>>4506746
Maybe the 360 version, but the version I have on PS3 forces me to be logged on PSN to start it.

>arcades started dying when casuals moved on
>modern arcade releases in Japan are taken over by cards and strategy games

running grenade throw

>Walk into a US arcade now
>Decrepit ticket games, RAW THRILLS, crane games, more ticket games, more RAW THRILLS trash
>Hiding in the back corner is a Ninja Gaiden cabinet, screen is shattered
>Next to it is a Virtua Cop cab, demo is playing but has no guns and coin slots sealed off with duct tape
>Finally, Die Hard Arcade. Cabinet looks pristine, but black screen. Check the back, power cable is actually sliced off

Shit sucks nowadays.

>>4506781
>RAW THRILLS
Are awesome, fuck you. Better than rhythm based moeshit.

>>4506781
Why the fuck would you get out of the house to play Die Hard Arcade when you can emulate it on a toaster using Mednafen.

>>4506702
>Experts are actually bad for their profits.
No you are completely wrong, niggas who want to get good spend the most money.
The only problem here are infinite looping games, but it's as simply as not putting those games in your arcade.

>>4506762
They were the only thing that ever made the arcade business model viable. A room full of experts can't keep an arcade afloat. Unless there's a vs component as mentioned with fighters etc.

They are more fun on one credit. This is the reason you do it. "intent" is of secondary importance.

1 credit means it's more tense, it means you need to master every mechanic and learn the full stage because every chunk of life is precious. The feeling of victory is also so high that just one is greater than a life-time of victories by credit feeding.

Finally the ultimate proof that 1ccers have more fun is that they whine the least while the credit feeders spent decades complaining about "cheap hits" "unfair game design". They created literally hundreds of thousands of reviews that amounted to little more than whining about how the game kicked their ass.

>>4506785
>cow shit is better than pig shit
thanks for the info

>>4506747
It doesn't deal several times more damage, just a little extra hit more damage. Still cool for stylish points.

>>4506794
It also means you have to reset after every mistake which I find fucking boring.

>>4506803
actually no, you can just keep going till you game over genius

>>4506815
Yeah but we all know how these things actually played out, you will be resetting after every minimal mistake, grinding for the perfect run

>>4506815
NEVER GIVE UP might sound like good motivational advice but in reality after dying to the first boss you know your chances of finishing a run have severely diminished, it drives morale way down and it just feels better to reset.

>>4506818
I don't play like that. It's another unwritten rule of arcades: don't let a credit go to waste. It was more obvious when credits were real money, though.

>>4506803
Unless your playing Gradius that's not the case. You can recover from a hit (a hit is a mistake). You might have a life pool or a stock of extra lives, maybe a shield power up.

What you are essentially saying is that you'd like to be able to win while making more play errors. Which essentially means you want to win while sucking. That attitude is ultimatly how action games became ultra casualzied.

>I don't like failing after only making a few mistakes we need more credits
>Well now I have X credits but that guy over there says that he doesn't like failing after making a few mistakes either.
>We know have unlimited credits and constant checkpoints. But there's still that guy over that that keeps dying and has to repeat stuff
>Ok now we have infinite credits, constant check points and regenerating health....but people are still fucking making mistakes and having to repeat stuff let's make it even easier.

Your attitude and the tolerance for that sort of thinking are what kill difficulty in games entirely. Either man or shut up.

>>4506827
What if I think games are better off being casualized? I don't have 12 hours of free time to practice runs at every game I own, my backlog is already HUGE as is.

>>4506825
I'm an IGN reviewer and my unwritten rule is to die over and over like a retard never learning anything.

>>4506827
Why are you mad though?

>>4506827
We seem to want different things out of arcade games. I want high energy, easy to pick up and play action, top notch animation and production values while you seem to want hardcore challenge. You know there's room for both of us, the hobby doesn't necessarily have to exclude anybody.

>>4506831
An hour spent playing is an hour spent playing. You can play an arcade game for 2 hours or you can play a casual game for 2 hours. The number of hours do not change based on how good you are at it. 200 hours in an arcade game is 200 hours and for someone with a strong appetite for challenge it's a much better 200 hours than time spent in casual games.

If you like your games casual go play casual games. Arcade games are hardcore games and you're rightfully going to get mad fun for trying to destroy it's spirit. You're essentially asking the whole sphere to change because you're a bitch.

>>4506823
It "feeling better" is a common newbie mistake. Don't waste runs unless you're a serious scorefag, even if your chances of beating a game are low, you are still getting valuable practice and avoiding restart syndrome. I've had runs where I thought my chances of clearing a game were low but still pulled through by concentrating and trying hard.

>>4506840
>You're essentially asking the whole sphere to change because you're a bitch.
What? Wait, I never asked anybody to change. I never claimed to be good either. Why are you so mad?

>>4506845
I can understand what you're getting at and I fully agree.

>>4506845
Again, if developers had a problem with people continuing they would have went full Gradius and completely disabled continues. Continues are merely a tool for getting good, think of it as training wheels.

>>4506836
I'm not "mad" I'm explaining the situation and sometimes that requires using an aggressive tone.

>>4506839
>I want high energy, easy to pick up and play action, top notch animation and production values while you seem to want hardcore challenge.

I want all of those. You seem to act like that if a game is tough it isn't 'easy to pick up'. You can learn how to play Ghosts and Goblins in about 30 fucking seconds.

>the hobby doesn't necessarily have to exclude anybody.
The arcade bussiness model literally died because of the preveliance of the casual attitude you are talking about now. Credit feeders do not make good long term customers, they get frustrated, worn, out and leave the arcade. It was the players that aspired to 1cc that kept coming back and kept them in bussiness.

So if you want arcade games in the future even as a casual you need the hardcore players to keep the bussiness alive.

And I'll clarrify this. No one is telling you can't credit feed. You can do that if you want but don't go trying to promote that type of playing. Because as I explained it kills the games you love.

>>4506852
No, fuck off. You don't continue, ever.

>>4506853
>You seem to act like that if a game is tough it isn't 'easy to pick up'.
No? What gave you that idea. Shmups are the easiest games to pick up but extremely difficult to master.

Alien vs Predator isn't even a top 5 capcom beat em up. AvsP has that Capcom AI cheap shit that started around Alpha2 where enemies randomly get invincibility and reduced frames. not to mention that Dutch is a shitty character. and lynn's gun reload glitch is broken and makes 90% of the game a cakewalk.

>>4506853
>So if you want arcade games in the future even as a casual you need the hardcore players to keep the bussiness alive.
>arcades
>in the future
It's dead, Tim. MAME is all we've got left and it's a Tiger Handheld emulator now.

>>4506856
Than why would you say we want different things? I never said arcade games shouldn't have "high energy, easy to pick up and play action, top notch animation and production values"

The only difference is I want them to be hard and I explained why you should want them to be hard too if you like having the industry alive.

>>4506857
The pipe glitch is much worse IMO

>>4506859
I meant I wanted simple games with high production values while all you want is
>difficulty
>difficulty
>more difficulty
This is a silly argument because we ain't changing each other's opinions no matter what.

>>4506852
You can use them that way if it works for you. If most credit feeders did that then nobody would have a problem with them. Many good players do it themselves and nobody has an issue because they don't stop at simply credit feeding.

>>4506858
There's attemps to revive arcade style games on steam.

But if the general reaction to the games are "It's too hard wtf. refunded" or when credit feed "I beat it in 1 hour wtf. shit game. refund" than that's going to fail. The people that buy those in great numbers are going to be the hardcore players.

>>4506857
you could not be further wrong if you tried, play with the predators and route the game, my routing gets me to final boss 8/9 out of 10 runs. Where is this cheap ai? you got stumped at the mecha alien boss didn't you?

>>4506862
Why the fuck did you guys get riled up so easily though? I just made a throw away comment and you're like a cornered animal.

>>4506858
Arcade style games are still coming out, just on consoles and PC. And the credit feeding mentality is even more cancerous there because there is no money at stake.

>>4506863
No it's not, the bulk of the sales are casual players, they are the ones you should cater to the most. Hardcore veterans are a cancer and they deserve to be purged. You are literally hurting business.

>>4506867
You've been shitting up the board for probably months now, why are you surprised?

>>4506872
What? I just got here, I didn't make the thread.

>>4506787
In the short term yes, but the more they play the better they get and the less they spend. Even on new games.

Casuals were always the bread and butter and what made a pure arcade viable. Experts and developers catering to them were one of the downfalls of the arcade industry along with home consoles.

>>4506870
There has to be a balanced, a good game needs to cater to both hardcore and casual fanbases alike. Think Smash Bros Melee or Street Fighter IV as successful games that managed to satisfy both mentalities. Mario Odyssey too with the speedrunning community.

>>4506874
My bad, in that case you can look at this guy :
>>4506870
Keep in mind he's been doing this style of shitposting for a long time now so understandably hostility has been building up.

>>4506864
nigga i've 1cc with every character. the game is one of the average difficulty capcom beatem ups. i never said it's hard. i was specifically talking about the instances where the AI gets free shit on you even when you're playing consistently and that's stupid game design. i was never even talking about the overall difficulty. i even said lynn can breeze through the game thanks to her gun reload glitch

>>4506879
You have to realize reacting outraged at trolls is the opposite of what you want to be doing. Don't give them attention.

>>4506870
Casuals have a very low attachment rate on pc/steam too. You have a few massive titles that get purchased by casuals because they were covered by Totalbiscuit, while other quality games of the same genre go COMPLETELY under the radar and are only picked up by hardcore players.

>>4506861
Like I said no one is excluding you from credit-feeding and making it easy. I think I've already been over twice why hardcore players are ultimately what keep these types of games a float. I think I also explained before that 1ccing is more fun. The thrill of winning by 1 credit is practically infinitely more fun than the thrill of winning with boat-loads of credits. But it's a fun that requires skill to obtain.

Interesingly enough good production values tend to correlate with difficulty. The best looking sprite work in platformers were from the tough Metal Slug series.

>>4506883
Not gonna lie, these days I'm tending much more towards casual play than hardcore.

>>4506870
The games that ended up succeeding mostly through casual purchases are the garbage indie crap, the stuff where 99.9% is fucking shovelware.

While the games that succeeded because of the hardcore player base are the classics people still discuss to this day.

>>4506892
True.

>>4506638
>If there's no tangible difference how come credit feeders universally suck dick while people who advocate 1cc'ing actually know how to play?
They don't. This is just some unsubstantiated bullshit you made up to try and defend a bad position.
>since you got taught about Final Fight scoring by an actual player.
Except that was my first post in the thread, as evidenced by the fact that I'm the eighth unique IP in the thread.

>>4506896
>This is just some unsubstantiated bullshit you made up to try and defend a bad position.
Point me to a single site where a. you have a lot of decent to good players b. they don't advocate going for a 1cc, no such place exists and evidence from threads on /vr/ shows that people who advocate one credit clears are more knowledgeable. Whether the Final Fight guy was you or not doesn't change anything desu

>>4506901
Point me to a site that plays arcade games at all. I don't think you realize how desolate things really are.

>>4506901
>i want you to substantiate my unsubstantiated bullshit for me
Nah.

>>4506890
It's safer to say you like Arcade STYLE games, not Arcades.

>>4506902
https://shmups.system11.org/
/shmupg/
>>4506903
>unsubstantiated
>evidence for 1cc advocates being good exists
>evidence for credit feeders being good doesn't

>>4506910
Credit feeding advocates*

>>4506910
>shmups.org
Wow that's so new, I never heard of that site before /s

>>4506910
So, just links to websites everyone already knows about? No actual proof of any kind? Like I said, unsubstantiated bullshit.

>>4506915
>>4506916
This isn't evidence because you already knew it existed? Are both of you brain damaged?

>>4506920
It isn't evidence at all. I was just pointing out that it isn't the secret clubhouse for elite arcade masters that you obviously thought it was when you namedropped it.

>>4506875
No you are retarded, casuals just spend like 5 usd one day and never return in one year, that's not viable.
It doesn't really matter if players can 1cc the game, as long as the game is short (20-25min) it's not bad businesswise, hell when mushihimesama came out japs spend retarded amount of money playing ultra

>>4506924
>guy asks for places that discuss arcade games
>give him the sites
>lol did you namedrop it because u thought it was obscure? Gotcha!
Though if you already knew about it then you'd also know about the site's attitude towards credit feeders therefore it would be evidence.

>>4506926
>i didn't say it was obscure!
>but it's totally obscure and you didn't know about it!
>Gotcha!
Except that several of its more prominent and longtime members are also longtime shitposters here, particularly on /vg/'s shmup general you mentioned earlier. Again, you're not convincing anyone with your hot opinions you can't prove and you're sure as hell not impressing anyone by trying to namedrop sites that you think are secret clubhouses.

>>4506938
>Except that several of its more prominent and longtime members are also longtime shitposters here, particularly on /vg/'s shmup general you mentioned earlier.
And? Those shitposters (Cee in particular) are skilled players who constantly shit on credit feeders. You're really just undermining your point by mentioning that.

>>4506940
>You're really just undermining your point by mentioning that.
No, I'd argue it makes my point more than anything else. (Not sure why you'd bring up Cee, though. Really new player and doesn't do much but shitpost.)

Anyway, if you're "constantly shitting on credit feeders" I have to ask you what the fuck that even means in the first place? Your entire argument boils down to
>but i'm feeding credits in a totally different way than you're feeding credits!
and that's both disingenuous and retarded.

>>4506947
He has decent scores in multiple games. Whether you like him or not, he has proven to be a competent player. Also no? My argument is that there is a clear difference in skill, knowledge and approach among people who advocate for 1cc as opposed to credit feeders which can be seen in many places including this very thread. What is YOUR point, on the other hand? That you can theoretically get good by credit feeding and not caring about a 1cc?

>>4506952
>He has decent scores in multiple games.
Post them. With links.
>My argument is that there is a clear difference in skill, knowledge and approach among people who advocate for 1cc as opposed to credit feeders which can be seen in many places including this very thread.
[actual citations needed]

>>4506947
cee is probably and sadly the best arcade player on /vr/

>>4506925
It's the same fucking way with steam and console releases of arcade games.

Casuals don't want to spend more than $5 on a game. They'll buy some shitty indie-shovelware because it's cheap. Maybe they'll buy a real game when it's discounted like 75%. They'll say something like "But is it really worth $30 for (insert one of the best game of it's genre here)?" You see that all the time in game reviews.

Hardcore gamers will buy a cave shooter for the full $50-$60 price tag for their game. They'll go further and pay an import fee. If the console is region locked they'll buy a new JP console. Maybe they'll also buy the DLC packs too.
---
tldr: hardcore players will drop money on a good game. Casuals will buy tons of shitty games because they are cheap.

That's why casuals kill games because they care abut quantity over quality. In a real aracde only the best games get to keep their floor space, if they suck they don't get quarters and get replaced by better games. While steam is flooded with shovelware and trying to find a decent 2D game there is needle in a haystack.

>>4505927
Reminder, when I visited Japan back in 2016, I saw a middle-aged man smoking a cigarette and beating this game on 1 credit. It was a sight to behold, but it was just another day for the guy.

>>4506960
>>4506952
>>4506940
>>4506926
>>4506920
lol samefag
now show me those inspect element 1ccs boyz

>>4506958
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e74YgYDnO80
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu6HUzB82b4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYZtzhmwH28

And Cee the anti-arcade shitposter has outed himself in yet another thread. Might be time to just get a trip.

Give me a FULL tier list for Garegga and Batrider. Thanks.

I disappear for some hours and this shitstorm happened wtf is wrong with arcade shitposters on /vr/
>>4506553
The difference is not butchering the experience every time you play it (this mostly goes for ports and emulation where there's not money involved and thus 0 consequences) and scoring. You may spend money the same but you're at least playing the game to its fullets and thus appreciating it more. The difference stressed is not money but enjoyment of the product.
>>4506667
>The hope of both the developer and the arcade owner is that you never get that good though.
This is why scoring systems were still there after the early 80's, so players that already could 1CC the games consistently still came back to the machines. And also why full clears are usually still short to avoid this issue.
>>4506702
If this is true then why did this business survive for much longer in Japan where not continuing was more popular? There are other cultural and societal reasons but c'mon.
>>4506709
Also, 1cc/scoring players are more dedicated and thus will come to play more regularly. The credit feeders are more prone to never come again (and they did this when home consoles catched up technically with the arcades, they never came back lol).
>>4506727
>>4506732
Yep, but consider than even this little step is already too much for modern gaymers.
>With arcade games the stars really aligned in many ways, the best ways to get money were also the the best ways to make good games.
This is why the average arcade game is better than the average game for any other kind of system.
>>4506748
In general this meme of "expert players are bad for arcades" needs to stop, why even put scoring systems, loops and shit like that when that can only cater to them?
>>4506794
"faik defficulte"
>>4506803
>every mistake
Name an arcade where you are thrown into a GAME OVER screen for taking just one hit. They only last for 30 minutes or so, we're not restarting a JRPG 40 hours in because of a random death spell

>>4507000
CEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>4507000
>fuck, i got caught
>maybe i can pretend like i'm someone else and i haven't been posting
Nah, you're a faggot.

>>4507000
>"faik defficulte"
What are you even saying with this?

>>4507006
>responding to cee
shiggy diggy

>>4507004
I was the one posting, not Cee. But even if it was Cee, caught doing what exactly? BTFOing smug arcade feeding retards by posting clears and forcing them to go silent because they don't have anything to add due to being disingenous shitters?

>>4507010
cee pls stop
it's hilarious watching you try to play it off, but the secondhand embarrassment is too much now

>>4506962
Someone read a certain article by Icycalm. You're right though. I'd add a smart player type to that list as well: The one who buys good games for cheap or pirates and doesn't let the monetary aspects influence his judgement of the game.

Cont. from >>4507000
>>4506818
Do you really think every player wants to WR? 1CC is satisfying enough for a lot of players.
>>4506823
Horseshit, you continue so you can practice even in the worst case scenario. Value that one coin.
>>4506827
To be fair the "Gradius effect" is not exclusive to that series. Have you tried recovering from some of Truxton 2's checkpoints? lol
Also, you reminded me of Sonic's ring system.
>>4506831
Hi /v/. You know you can play a coin a day, still have a lot of fun and actually become better at games in general?
>>4506839
>high energy
>while credit feeding
Well, you at least have a lot of imagination, anon. I've seen credit feeders getting bored of games before even finishing them IRL.
>>4506840
These guys prefer to press 1 button with 0 challenge to grind and make their character avatar progress. It's the casual market outside of cinematic 0 challenge experiences.
>>4506852
Continuing only became a real problem when these games became ported and emulated. They got bad reviews because players would infinitely credit feed them with no consequence and didn't get anything from the experience.
>The arcade bussiness model literally died because of the preveliance of the casual attitude
Indeed, the so-called "golden age of arcades" in the west coincided with the period when the typical arcade game was only about scoring, it never ended and thus didn't let you continue. As soon as continues popped up the business declined, (with improving home systems helping here get the casuals) and the only genres that survived were either multiplayer (remember that even shmups became co-op even if they suck like that IMO) or peripheral focused (stuff not found home).
>>4506861
The thing is, it's either some difficulty (1CC and up) or none whatsoever (infinitely credit feeding). There are already varying degrees of difficulty in the 1CC realm. Try Batsugun Special Version if you want an easier yet still pretty fun shmup, I 1-ALL'd this one blind.

>>4507036
>Continuing only became a real problem when these games became ported and emulated. They got bad reviews because players would infinitely credit feed them with no consequence and didn't get anything from the experience.

In retrospect it's pretty amusing how Ikaruga decided to time-gate the ability to continue. Treasure probably had to do that to avoid the "I beat it in 30 minutes wtf" reviews.

Cont. from >>4507036
>>4506863
RIP Nex Machina's devs. This is why I made a thread here some weeks ago saying the ability to credit feed in ports or games made for home systems killed this style, in like 4th gen and before arcade ports or style games only had a limited number of credits; still more than 1CC (you had the incentive since they had scores, even if usually unpolished scoring systems) but the experience was not butchered. You at least need to get a little good to beat Thunder Force IV with all the credits available.
>>4506868
Very few actual arcade-style, I'd say. Every year we get less and less releases.
>>4506870
>Hardcore veterans are a cancer and they deserve to be purged.
Happy New Year, /v/
>>4506878
>Smash Bros Melee
C'mon, that game only catered to hardcore audiences that much unintentionally. Sure, they didn't destroy the skill ceiling like in the later ones to prevent it from happening, but I'm sure they didn't because they didn't expect it to happen anyway.
Other fighting games online are notorious for being unforgiving for new players, they fear going online because they get their ass handed to them. Be them new releases or Fightcade.
>speedrunning
Self-imposed challenges are nice but an entire other thing altogether, very few games are designed to be speedran while arcade games have the scoring systems and the like intentionally put there.
>>4506883
Interestingly, I've seen some types of casuals stick to just one game for a long, LONG time, probably due to some shady progress systems (stuff like LoL, OW or HS players). They don't even want to try other stuff since that would mean making less progress in their main game.
>>4506884
>platformers
>Metal Slug series
Really? I agree with your points but those are clearly run and gun games with VERY low platforming elements.
>>4506890
You're being conditioned by modern crap, stop before it's too late.
>>4506960
Hi, Cee.
>>4506963
Some people here believe this is a myth or something.

>>4507023
This whole thread is basically is filled with said idea's from his reading. Why the fuck are we talking about what the arcade scene was like in Japan. How many people in this thread actually were in Japanese arcade's? Yet we'll discussing it with absolute certainity. That's his influence.. It's even built into our lexicon. The word "arcade" refered to a physical location or a collection of casual direct download games (ie Xbox Live Arcade) now it refers it a culture.

My point wasn't so much about who buys what on sale but on what sort of games they finicialize.

The point is that that casuals do not have a high range of taste. They judge things in the formula hours spent/time played because for them one hour with one game isn't much different than an hour with another game. Hardcore players have discerning tastes and are going to congregate around the best games. So the hardcore bucks ultimately promote the production of a few top quality games and the casual bucks of a flood of weak games (say the sub $10 indie games) This is true even when you factor in that some players are more shrewd with their bucks than others.

>>4507063
>Hi, Cee.
Replying to your own post isn't going to convince anyone.

This thread is literally nothing but wannabe elitists jacking each other off. Or it's one big samefag doing the same. Hard to tell.

Cont. from >>4507063
>>4506995
LOL moving the goalposts much?
>>4507002
>>4507004
>>4507007
Not Cee, I don't even know this guy other than the fact that he's blamed a lot for the arcade shitposting here. If you don't believe me it doesn't matter anyway, not that I can do much to convince you. If you check my IP I'm from Spain.
>>4507006
What some people who suck at games say.
>>4507049
And this is probably why it got better reviews lol Other than the graphics and the obvious uniqueness to it.

Cont. from >>4507076
>>4507065
The word "arcade" a collection of casual direct download games (ie Xbox Live Arcade) now it refers it a culture.
We're reaching levels of shitposting never before thought possible.
Nah, I get you, I've seen people call stuff like Tyrian "arcade-style games".
>>4507075
18 posters. And I'm not an elitist myself, actually, though some definitely are. I don't agree with their attitude.

>>4507081
Meant to
>The word "arcade" a collection of casual direct download games (ie Xbox Live Arcade) now it refers it a culture.

>>4507076
Oh come on Cee we can tell your style from a mile away. At least drop the reddit spacing.

>>4507000
christ they think you're me, lmao.
>>4506947
>Really new player
lmao mate i've been playing shmups for over 10 years, bmups properly for 1/2.


Well this is a weird experience, there's walls of new posts im yet to read but apparently everyone thinks one of them is me? it isn't. Pro-tip a cee (me) post sounds something like "fuck up you harmonious queef whistle, i'l punch fuck a sleeping bag up your mum before i move in with squatters rights" or something.
>>4507063
>Hi, Cee.
You aren't me and neither was who you linked lmao, I HAVEN'T BEEN HERE FOR FUCKS SAKE.

>>4506864
This is the last post i made here.

are cee and icycalm the same person?

>>4507086
I never use "lol", that literally isn't me at all.

>>4507076
Well you've certainly caused a storm on my behalf lmao.

>>4507090
>are cee and icycalm the same person?
nah i think he's canadian? or somshit, i'm a bong.

>>4507089
They will probably still not believe me. I'm a fucking Spaniard ffs. The Hi, Cee thing was a joke, though.

>>4507081
I don't recall that being a normal part of lexicon in the past. People would refer to something like Tyrian by it's genre or just call it an action game, since in the past most action games were arcadey. /vr/ in it's early days certainly didn't think the word refered to a type of culture. They also weren't hostile to the idea of credit feeding (why would they be? Not only was it a normal part of western culture with our arcades but everyone that downloaded Mame spammed the credit buton). Than Arcade Culture got thrown around a lot in threads and the ideas gradually became established parts of board culture.

>>4507063
>Interestingly, I've seen some types of casuals stick to just one game for a long, LONG time, probably due to some shady progress systems (stuff like LoL, OW or HS players). They don't even want to try other stuff since that would mean making less progress in their main game.

Yeah, the market is such that you need to effectively keep people addicted to games with social elements and skinner box mechanics, which, when combined with the inherent addictive nature of games, makes for one hell of a combo. The only point of optimism is that games like LoL and OW are still skill based at their core, so we're not expected to play scummy phone games quite yet. Also the backlash is growing thanks to the absolutely shameless attitude displayed by various big devs.

>>4507095
>I'm a fucking Spaniard ffs.
absolutemente asqueroso, nice to have a fellow who can actually play and knows shit on board though. What name do you go by?

>>4507091
The thing is, I try to be more reasonable than you but these shitposting arcade haters are just too much.
>>4507096
I've known people to 1CC games in the actual arcade centers here in Spain back in the day...

>>4507097
>we're not expected to play scummy phone games quite yet.
You seem to have forgotten about HS already which I mentioned lol
>>4507102
Ricardo, from a city bordering Barcelona

>>4507097
>Yeah, the market is such that you need to effectively keep people addicted to games with social elements

This right here is the sole reason games aren't what they used to be, overall. The social aspect used to be looking at the player next to you/watching someone play as you wait your turn and ask questions like "oh shit, howd you do that?" or something.

Nowadays, it's "cmon guys we need to get together and make a plan to capture this flag/down this raid boss/LOL OMG LOOKIT MY ACHIEVEMENTS" from a computer screen that doesn't require you to actually interact with anyone in the flesh, but rather just to "interact with the whole world!"

It's nonsense.

>>4507104
I'm more lenient towards HS because it's a card game and those have been filled with all kinds of bullshit for a long time now without affecting other styles of games.

>>4507103
Speaking from an American perspective. Almost everyone credit-feed. There were outliers but they were just that, outliers. I only met one guy that didn't. Also don't forget that many people now get their taste of arcade games from ports or emulation which provide the option for heaps of credits with no damage to your wallet.

If you want further proof that the western culture was based on credit feeding with 1ccing being an outlier just look at reviews from IGN or gamestop on classic arcade games and it is revealed plainly that they did not regard them as games of skill (cheap, unfair, quarter muncher would be common words. They certainly didn't discuss 1ccing in the 90s and early 00s. Now a days it's even more silly. I read a review for Wild Guns Reloaded that complained at the lack of save-states....what's that tell you about our sorry state?).

>>4507103
>I try to be more reasonable than you
I tried once before, it's a lost cause so now i just garnish the truth with ad hominems and amuse myself.

>>4507103
>I've known people to 1CC games in the actual arcade centers here in Spain back in the day...
Nice, i lived in malaga for 6 months they still had an arcade i visited there in like 2006, i was a fighters player then though.

vr is land of the excuse maker, collector, eternal hater and whiny piss bags who'd rather call games bad than admit they suck, enjoy your stay!

>>4506995
>Garegga
Top Tier:
Golden Bat (Gain if you play with cheats)

Shit Tier:
everyone else

>Batrider
Top Tier:
Strawman

Shit Tier:
everyone else

Yagawa sure knows how to make good gameplay balance.

>>4507109
You can't deny how much HS has popularized those in general.

>>4507110
>just look at reviews from IGN or gamestop
by casuals for casuals.

>>4507113
this is wrong for batrider unless you're playing solely for pleb clear.

Carpet is god tier and the highest scoring solo character, i have the "western" (gay i know) record with carpet, an I score. Everyone else in garegga isn't shit either, bornham is up there.

>>4507118
gimme character ranking for garegga, pham

>>4507118
>>4507121
btw i didn't argue once with anyone in this thread. wasn't even paying attention to what you guys are talking about. so don't mistake me for someone else.

This is a slightly notorious Spaniard (from the south) that played games to no miss back in the day. If you actually understand Spanish he's a bit cringy but still, the commentary is not live and is mostly about strategies or talking about anecdotes from back in the day. He mentions he didn't manage to clear this one since it was removed from the arcades he used to visit fairly quickly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9zJ_MnnbI4
>I read a review for Wild Guns Reloaded that complained at the lack of save-states
This can't be real LMAO
>>4507113
>Strawman
I've only managed to 1CC the game as this guy so I can second this lol

>>4507121
It kinda depends on your level and what you're going for, gain has the highest scoring potential but requires super high level to make everything happen especially that stage 2 suicide bomb trick.

Golden bat statistically was recorded as having the most clears from the arcades in japan.

>>4507125
>I've only managed to 1CC the game as this guy so I can second this lol
this adds to what i say, you need to state which angle you are coming from as a character being best for survival can be different to score.

>>4507118
>by casuals for casuals.
That's the fucking point the approach to arcade games in the west was ultra casual from the 90s and onwards, which certainly represents a huge chunk of the life-span of said games.

>>4507126
is Chitta generally considered worst character in garegga?

>>4507128
It's my least favorite at the very least, deals shit damage.

>>4507127
You just need to look at what region had the most skilled fighting game players. Not the US that's for sure.

>>4507127
yeah western culture has in recent times been aimed towards throw away quick investent to maximize consumer potential, i'm not arguing with that because it's true, many of the games though are designed and balanced super well but now we have emulation etc and mroe knowledge it's a different experience to putting a coin in bitd and trying to play whilst figuring everything out. I;m not sure whats being argued desu but who cares what the majority of retards did? not me, i get a laugh everytime i go to my arcade and watch normies try to play pinball aswell, not an ounce of thought just mindlessly hitting away until fail seconds later, ppl are generally dumb.

>>4507128
yes but probably falsely, i think learning and working with red baron is the hardest time.

>>4507125
It's real.

"An option to use save states, level select from the beginning, or just quit the game and continue from where you left off are unfortunately absent from here as well. Yes, the game is short but these options would have been so easy to implement."

>Daily News For Your Inner Geek

http://www.biogamergirl.com/2017/01/wild-guns-reloaded-review-ps4.html

Was reviewed by a guy, Ben Sheene.

From reading the review it sounds like he literally couldn't beat the first level and just struggled picking different characters for an hour than wrote the review in 30 minutes. No actual criticism or discussion of how the game works during advanced play.

>>4507135
tbf though the u.s scene really kicked off a lot later than japan, it still had some decent guys like Alex valle but just didn't have the numbers.

>>4506065
>bonus, irrelevant to the plot ending means it was "meant" to be cleared in a way that allows you to see said ending
It merely means that it was possible to do so and you are presented with easteregg-tier bonus screens if you do. The goal of arcade games is to make money for the operator via a combination of visual appeal, fun, and difficulty. Sure, in order to truly beat an arcade game in a meaningful capacity I'd argue that you need to do so in one credit, but that hardly means that was the intention of the developers. Fuck, there is even a Gradius III interview where some of the developers admit that there wasn't a single person who was involved in making the fucking game who could beat it without credit feeding, and even then it was only one person who could feed through the whole thing.

Pic related, 1CC fags eternally btfo

>>4505931
Because the allure of being immortalized and mythologized was worth 10-20 quarters.

>>4507138
You reminded me of this delicious review
https://gamecritics.com/brad-gallaway/3231/
"his favorite game of all time is the first Mass Effect"

>>4507142
your argument isn't conistent at all, devs saying the couldn't 1cc their own games (why would they? programmers are not players) has nothing to do with the intentions of the game design. If there was no consideration for 1cc then why do so many arcade games acknowledge it in various way? What you've posted doesn't prove what you think it does at all.

ITT: Cee goes full schizo and starts replying to himself.

>>4507153
>denying what's been proven without doubt wasn't cee but a spaniard called ricardo

We all know who's the schizo here buddy.

>>4507142
But you can't continue in Gradius III nor any other game of that series, anon. Why are credit feeding apologists always this ignorant? I think I know why lol
>>4507143
Continuing resets your score, anon... This ignorance, holy shit.

>>4507158
>i have multiple personality disorder
That's creepy.

>>4507159
>This ignorance, holy shit.
I tried to warn you, the real sides here are us speaking from actual experience of clearing and scoring tons of games and these guys who haven't cleared 1 and just want to wank with semantics and assumptions to win arguments which they will because they;re to stupid to realize they lost.

>>4507162
great banter.

>>4507168
>i am cee
Yeah, we know. Can we move on now?

>>4507170
>Can we move on now?
no idea can you? because i popped in here tonight discover 100 new replies with you guys name dropping me every post.

>>4507168
For sure, Gradius 1 is like the classic 1-all game for beginners. The fact that they don't even know this really shows their ignorance.

>>4507172
Can you just stop trying to change your posting style when you're pretending to be a different poster? Just dropping capital letters doesn't really fool anyone. Neither does attempting to make grammatical mistakes.

This thread, though, holy shit.
>188 replies
>22 unique ips
Cee is on a samefagging shitposting rampage.

>>4507142
You can't credit freed Gradius 3, there's no continue feature. If the devs won by credit feeding than they enabled continued for bug testing.

You literally don't even know the basics of the game you are talking about. Thanks for showing us how ignorant you are. I should screen-shot this so the next time you try this bullshit you can be reminded of your humiliation. Good thing for other annons to save

>>4507174
Anon, please >>4507095

>>4507179
>191 replies
>22 ips
I mean, you can TRY to bullshit. It's not going to work, but you can make an effort and see where it goes. You outed yourself ages ago, though. Just saying.

>>4507178
Can you fucking explain exactly how you have font rendering that nice in Windows?

>>4507142
Like any other good developer, they made their games so they allow a multitude of different playstyles while nudging the players in the correct direction with subtle means like hints, rewards and extra content. Developers not being to 1cc their own games isn't an argument, all they have to do is make sure to test the individual parts. I also like how you've found one bit of an interview while ignoring everything else that destroys your argument, such as many prominent designers 1cc'ing games themselves like with Ikeda and Tatsujin or Yagawa and Gun Frontier. But hey at least you took my advice and started reading.

>>4507178
And they still couldn't even 1CC it, which was entirely my point. The people who made the game could not clear the game in one credit. What the fuck are you even trying to argue? Where was i wrong about anything?

>>4507183
if you think that's me you're pants on head retarded.
>>4507192
>The people who made the game could not clear the game in one credit.
They didn't attempt to you pubeless bollock, it says they each tested their own developed stage and they couldn't do it anyway because devs are not fucking players, guess what yagawa can't clear his games either.

>>4507186
Times New Roman Size 16. Browser>options>general>language and appearance

>>4507192
And that proves that they intended for people to credit feed, something that's even harder? What a fucking idiot lol. All this proves is that devs aren't necessarily good at their own games, which everyone knew already.

>>4507203
>if you think that's me
Yup, I do. You'll be posting as "El Shitpostrifico, Spanish 1cc Man of Action" again soon enough, though.

>>4507207
It means that people being able to clear the game in one credit was not their goal during development. If that were a goal, would they not hold back release until they verified that it was even possible? Wouldn't that make sense?

>>4507183
It's 22, not 3, what the hell.
>>4507203
Nice argument there, buddy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O75I3Hw4x1c

>>4507210
>Yup, I do.
you're dumb as a fucking rock mate, if Ricardo starts speaking fluent Spanish will you assume i can speak it to aye?

>>4507192
Their job is to design stages and make it so they are actually possible to be beaten. Which they did, they learned every stage can be beaten by having one person master each stage and demonstrate it's winnable. The fact taht no one mastered all of them by himself just means that their staff doesn't have a demi-god on it. Gradius 3 is arguably the hardest arcade game ever fucking made.

>>4507216
>It's 22, not 3, what the hell.
Is this Cee or El Shitpostrifico? Which one are you pretending to be in this post?

>>4507216
Sorry, the second one was meant for this guy
>>4507214

>>4507214
Do you have even a slightest clue of how games are developed? Protip the devs don't play by the same rules as the player when testing their games, they program in various debug tools including things like level/checkpoint select and invincibility. They only have to make sure that seperate stretch of the game is beatable, they don't have to be able to do it in one go. Most don't.

>>4507217
He'll probably say Cee is on vacation and can speak fluent Spanish or shit like that, trolls know no boundaries lol
>>4507219
That's me, "El Shitpostrifico"

>>4507226
Are you going to just reply to yourself all thread or actually discuss something? We're over 200 replies of samefagging now.

I think /vr/'s reached peak autism desu

>>4507238
It's not bad considering this is an obvious bait thread from the start.

>>4507221
Of course I know about debug menus and cheat-enabled ROMs. Your post indicates that you admit that their goal is to verify that the game is (relatively) bug-free/beatable in a technical sense and not that a player can 1CC it from beginning to end. Due to the requirements of working in the arcade environment, the sad fact is that the business end just wants players to drop enough money into the machine so that the operator buys more games from the company. Difficulty balance, target game board/cabinet venue (an easily credit-fed game like The Simpsons will be a far better buy for a family fun center than, say, a Cave shmup), graphics, fun, and so on will be an extension of this. Even in my earlier post I acknowledge that 1CCing an arcade game is really the only way to meaningfully beat it, because if you just drop in 50 credits and brute force it while dying every 5 seconds, what is the actual accomplishment or skill demonstration? I'd add that doing so on default or harder dipswitch settings is also a necessary factor, so you don't set it to get some inordinate amount of lives on your one credit.

>>4507238
Most of us are on here due to a borderline autistic obsession with old games, so of course!

>>4507263
>bug-free/beatable in a technical sense and not that a player can 1CC it from beginning to end
That AND difficulty balance which is the same thing as making sure that players can 1cc a game from beginning to end. How does your mind work if at all? You can find many, many examples of developers not being able to beat their own games after finishing them. It means nothing. For a more recent example, the developer of Blue Revolver said that he can't 1cc his game on the highest difficulty with any consistency.

>>4507263
>Most of us are on here due to a borderline autistic obsession with old games, so of course!
Yeah collecting them you gay cunt, you're all mostly shite despite playing since the 80s.

>>4507275
>That AND difficulty balance which is the same thing as making sure that players can 1cc a game from beginning to end.
They don't want players dying so rapidly that they don't bother to put in another quarter since they think the game is cheating them. That has nothing to do with whether or not they intend for people to 1CC it.

>>4507298
>They don't want players dying so rapidly that they don't bother to put in another quarter since they think the game is cheating them
100% wrong, otherwise checkpoints wouldn't kill you almost immediately after respawn and be the hardest in the beginning until you recover, Try learning the game you're talking about before trying to do these mental gymnastics. You will always be wrong.

It's obvious most games are designed to be beatable in a no miss run, it's absolutely no coincidence 1cc runs can be made here while you can't do some no-damage runs of some easier home games. Also, scoring.
Most games that don't follow this criteria are 90's western-made or are western versions of Japanese games.
And this shitposting about samefagging needs to stop.

>>4507142
>each stage is completely fine and playtested but that means the whole game isn't!
this is how retarded you are

>>4507320
I'm saying that the goal of arcade games is to get people to pump in quarters, not to have people 1CC them. Remember that these weren't just things that you play in emulators or home ports, they were on location in places that could require 100 yen to even play it at all. If anything that is an afterthought. If Gradius III started you off in the cube rush section on screen one, chances are not even the most dedicated would care enough to keep playing. As it was released, a reasonably experienced shmup player should be able to make it through stage 1 with little difficulty, same with stage 2. It takes until maybe the stage 3 boss before things start to get tricky, which is where the difficulty balance comes into play.
>>4507306
Playtested does not mean the intended play style was 1CC.

>>4507337
>the goal of arcade games is to get people to pump in quarters, not to have people 1CC them
>What are infinite games
>What are games with no ability to continue
>What are scoring systems
Anon, please stop. I know you are aware of these but stop defending credit feeding. It wasn't the standard, it was an option to practice / get money from casuals.

>>4507337
>I'm saying that the goal of arcade games is to get people to pump in quarters, not to have people 1CC them
It's both, stop being retarded.

>>4507337
>I'm saying that the goal of arcade games is to get people to pump in quarters, not to have people 1CC them
It's both, stop being retarded. The pleb shitter can creditfeed if he wants, the player with standards will strive for 1cc or a high score as the game was balanced around that.

>>4507337
>Playtested does not mean the intended play style was 1CC.
I see you completely dropped your previous argument after seeing that it makes no sense at all, good. "Intended playstyle" doesn't mean anything in this sense because you're speaking of it as some kind of monolith. Everything outside of obvious exploits and cheats is an intended playstyle because the developers were aware of it and kept it in. What people mean when they say that 1cc is intended isn't that it's THE intended way, they mean that it's not an arbitrary challenge and was something that the developers not only allowed for but actively encouraged in many ways. You're trying to deny this by bringing up irrelevant shit like how they also intended other playstyles. Keep reading developer interviews, Toaplan for example often talk about their approach to difficulty design.

>can't 7-all gradius III
fucking plebs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl2JAZO8GY0

>>4507390
Indeed, speedrunning Final Fight would be a self-imposed challenge and not something the game was made for, for instance. You can still do it and have fun. It's easy to see the difference but some anons are thick like this.
>>4507395
lol

Any protips for the Slisaurs fight or is it pure RNG bullshit?

An excerpt from the manual for the aracde amchine of Ghosts n' Goblins.

What do you guys think? Does two minutes and thirty seconds sound fair for a session?

>>4507767
This is a western manual, we all know operators and players followed a different philosophy there compared to Japan which is where most of these games originated from.
Still, the manual may be referring to the average player.

>>4507774
I'll elaborate a bit more: it's not like the game (or arcades in general) goes for 2:30 minutes and then it forces you to die or something, they almost never have a forced paywall in any point of the game. But they are adjusted so that average or bad players are demolished by the sheer challenge and thus have to play to become good at general execution.

>>4507395
Is there a single high-level Gradius 3 playthrough that doesn't end at the bubble boss? It's kind of impressive how consistently that guy ends runs.

>>4507767
2 and half is the average. Not the good players. What's that thing icy says in Arcade culture "Only the skilled survive. The rest shall perish"

And there is no such thing as a 'fair session' retard. All you are tryign to communicate is you know you wouldn't last more than 2 and a half minutes, probably even less and are angry.

>>4507834
Why are you getting this fucking angry?

>>4507847
You're complaining about market research on a game from 1984 and bitching about whether or not it the conclusions were "fair". Not only that but you're demonstrating you can't comprehend the idea of "average". Than you pull out some stock response when you get told how stupid that is.

>>4507659
>Hannah

Yeah, you need a lot of luck not to lose at least one life on that fight. Her stupid throw bug is also a bitch, which makes her the worst character in the game.

>>4507897
>Her stupid throw bug
I think I recall hearing about that.

>>4507897
Of course I use Mustapha on serious playthroughs, kind of a shame how weak hannah is.

>>4507903
I think he's referring to this

>>4507903
>>4507914
Yep, it's where you do the combo into throw (punch, punch, punch, up/down+punch) but with Hannah there's a chance that the kick comes out instead of the throw. On later levels where you're constantly surrounded and need to do the combo->throw more than any other move, it can royally screw you over. Not to mention most of her other moves leave her really vulnerable. She's supposed to be the weapons expert, but knives aren't that great, and her faster bullets when firing automatic guns is actually a hindrance because you end up whiffing extra bullets on bosses.

>>4507914
That's yet another crappy thing about Hannah, but this one is more serious.

>>/vr/thread/S3287720#p3287818

>>4507915
Very interesting.

>>4507917
I've tested this and it happens when you are attacking an enemy from below, maybe it's related to vertical throw range or something

>>4507915
>>4507917
I've tested this and it happens when you are attacking an enemy from below, maybe it's related to vertical throw range or something

>>4507968
Stuff like this is why I come here and not some shitty shitposting

>>4507968
Excellent discovery.

>>4505927
yeah. and?

>>4507852
>getting this mad over arcade games

>>4505927
>Reminder, Arcade games were intended to be credit fed.
well of course, the venue hosting the cabinet needs to make back its investment

is this supposed to be a response to 1ccers or something? ignore those niggers

>>4507968
That's ridiculous. Just that alone makes Hannah objectively the worst character in the game by far because it limits your options.

>>4508242
Hannah patch when?

>>4505927
whats the guy with sunglasses name with the yellow vest?

>>4510120
Damnd

Wow, this thread is dumb.

http://insomnia.ac/commentary/arcade_culture/

Everyone can go home now

>>4510127
Sup Icy

>>4505951
what does DOJ WL stand for?

>>4510208
Daioujou White label, an extremely anal game on which the only way to beat both loops is on one credit.

>>4510180
DoDonPachi DaiOuJou White Label, which refers to the first version of the game, it later had a revision called Black Label with some slight changes that are mostly there for advanced players.

>>4510224
Black label is also noticeably easier in terms of survival

>>4510224
Meant for >>4510208, fuc

>>4510217
Don't a lot of Cave games not let you play the second loop at all if you have continued? Though yeah, that one doesn't let you continue afterwards.

>>4510227
>Don't a lot of Cave games not let you play the second loop at all if you have continued? T
I think that trend started on the PGM games, first gen games you can continue on loop 2

>>4510226
Interestingly they swapped the hitbox of the ships. In the original the red one has the smaller hitbox so it's easily the best. In BL though the smaller hitbox is now on the green one, and with its spread shot you can have an easier time just trying to survive.

>>4510228
You've misunderstood me. "Not let you play the second loop at all if you have continued", by this I mean if you credit feed the first loop you can't continue and play the second one.

>>4510234
Ah yes that started on DDP, but not allowing to continue on loop 2 starting on Daioujou, which made the games probably much harder to practice on top of being more difficult.

>>4510239
Reminder, Arcade games were intended to be credit fed!

>>4505927
Final Fight
>protip: choose Hagar
punch + punch +grab + headbut +headbut +jump +piledrive = 1cc

anyone can get to the last boss with this method

>>4510258
That's too hard let's just call the game repetitive button mashing and play games where I can grind experience points to win

For what it’s worth the ACA Neo Geo games only track your score for the leaderboards on the first credit and if you only play on default settings. So for scoring I would say 1cc is what counts, for everything else just do whatever you want. As long as you’re having fun that’s all that matters.

>>4510258
If you don't know the enemy behavior you'll still get absolutely fucked as Haggar, great character but not for beginners imo

>>4510264
Maybe OP is a massive fan of DoDonPachi II: Bee Storm.

>>4510258
You never 1cced the game before so fuck off retard. You won't get past stage 2 with that shit strategy. Haggar is the most technical character in the game, idiot.

>>4510274
this
>piledriver
>being relevant at all
Casuals always get this wrong impression, suplex is 100x more important

>>4510292
that idiot probably beat Mighty Final Fight and he thinks he's a pro now.

>>4510274
You haven't even tried it so stop being a smug moron, if you had you'd know this works because it clears the area and allows you too repeat easily.

>>4510438
fuck off retard. anyone who has actually played arcade final fight for more than 5 minutes knows that your shitty strategy is not applicable past stage 1.

>>4505927
i loved final fight