/vr/ - Retro Games

>>4499505
it's one of the last things I haven't gotten into.

>>4499505
The fascination, for me at least, ended in the early nineties when it was essentially obsolete. That said, I still love them and mess with them regularly.

it's fascinating how people were starving for computing they considered these computers a viable platform for work and entertainment

and C64 wasn't even the worst one on the market

>>4499698
This guy is obviously under the age of 18. From a 1980s perspective, it was a more than adequate computer.

C64 was like a sports coupe. Small, nimble, and fun to drive but not much interior room. An IBM XT was like some big clunky Cadillac. Expensive, big, and very comfy to ride in but handles like a brick.

>>4499505
Fascinated isn't the word I'd use but it was a great machine and I used it a lot

>>4499698
It's fascinating how people who weren't even born while it was still in production have opinions on it

>>4499698
Nice, people took the bait.

>>4499797
>bait
Nah, just a kid who doesn't know any better.

>>4499774
Production of the C64 actually only ended with Commodore's bankruptcy in the spring of 1994, so...

Eh, honestly, there's only a handful of legitimately good games for it.

>>4499929
C64 isn't about the games, it's about understanding the underlying hardware and how to program it from top to bottom. You don't get that kind of comprehensive understanding of a machine from today's world.

>>4499929
A lot of C64 games at the time looked and sounded better than their DOS equivalents.

>>4500023
IBM compatibles weren't good at gaming until the 90s unless you wanted to play Sierra adventures.

>>4499860
12 fucking years

>>4499929

But you never ran out of options. My cousin would visit us for a week and give me a c-tape full of games just like that. Another source was my school mates. A dual cassette player was the king.

>>4500459
Commodore's inability to get rid of the C64 was an embarrassing liability. By the late 80s, it was half a decade old and technology was evolving quickly, but it kept on selling, especially in Europe. The final decision to discontinue the thing came in 1993 when their disk drive supplier raised prices. However, Commodore filed for bankruptcy in April 94 before they got around to terminating production.

>>4499860
So the kids react poster is under 23?

>>4499954
As a C64 developer who wrote hundreds of thousands of lines of code, sometimes actually coded in ML, and understands all that shit I can tell you the C64 is all about games.

My dad used FleetWriter on his. It was a pretty sophisticated word processor for an 8-bit computer and even had a print preview and (incredibly slow) spell check/dictionary.

>>4501024
>As a C64 developer who wrote hundreds of thousands of lines of code, sometimes actually coded in ML, and understands all that shit
And the roleplaying begins.

>>4501524
>anyone who doesn't live in my moms basement is roleplaying

I only know it from my dad playing sid tunes growing up, rob hubbard, follin usual shit. still the best music i've heard from a game desu

>>4501747
Write a duplicit sub-routine for the mainline cpu right now that balances the data banks and graphics cache right now or you're a fake

>>4499954
>'s about understanding the underlying hardware and how to program it from top to bottom

That's literally not what the C64 is about at all. There's an entire OS between you and the hardware. If you want bare metal programming, go look at simple embedded systems or early console dev.

>>4499797
>I was only pretending to be retarded.
>pls no bully
>I don't know anything pre-Windows XP

>>4501826
>That's literally not what the C64 is about at all. There's an entire OS between you and the hardware

>>4501826
can you not disable BASIC and most of the kernal stuff

>>4502115
You can switch out everything. Literally everything giving you 64k or RAM with no access to the outside world. The C-64 was great for low level work. I doubt that kid has ever used one let alone coded for one.

>>4501789
Such is the sad state of the board these days that I can't even be sure you're not serious.

>>4502115
You can flip out all the ROMs. Most games at least switch out BASIC, switching out the kernel is less common since you'll need to prove your own I/O and interrupt handling routines.

>>4499505
Love the C64. It was my only computer until the late 90's, so I spent a lot of time on this thing. Some decent games on there amidst the steaming piles of crap games.

>>4499505
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuLafu8nbaY

>>4503302
There was a lot of RAM under that kernel and the kernel wasted a lot of lower RAM for storing shit. I think it was pretty common.

>>4501747
No one said that. I just called you a roleplayer. Mostly because you are. You can try to feverishly beat on Google in the hopes of learning just enough to try to prove your bullshit, but it's just going to end in you embarrassing yourself.

>>4499774
>It's fascinating how people who weren't even born while it was still in production have opinions on it
lets not commit ageism now pls

>>4503854
>>4503302
Best way to test is to load up a game in VICE, pull up the monitor, and dump $F000 to see if the kernel is there. I would think any game with a built-in fastloader probably has its own I/O handler. Stuff like Infocom adventures and Ultima IV have no fastloader, I would guess they use the kernel disk routines.

Having a reset button would have been nice, it would reduce some stress on the computer from having to power cycle it every time you wanted to run a different program. They did have cartridges with reset buttons you could buy.

>>4501753
How come Americans had no decent SID composers? All NTSC games I've seen had generic bleeps and bloops music.

>>4504193
Oddly enough I was looking through the source code for Ultima IV Remastered earlier today. Someone mentioned it in another thread. It switches the kernel in and out. Maybe that's something you didn't consider. It's just as easy to switch it back in if you need to use it as it was to switch it out.

>>4504363
well you see american games were substance > style

>>4503296
>booting into DOS to run a game instead of Windows is the same as running on bare metal

This is essentially what you're claiming. You're an idiot.

>>4505171
you can't actually disable DOS after it has booted though

I remember on the C64 and VIC-20, copying BASIC code in the back of magazines to "program" my own game.

>>4504363
We didn't have a demo culture.

>>4505171
It's nothing like what I'm "claiming" kiddo. It's a simple fact that you can use a C64 without using any of the ROMs it comes with. If you use a cart in ultimax mode it will replace the kernel and boot directly to your code. Now go away and google some more before pretending you know what you're talking about.

>>4501024
>sometimes actually coded in ML

If you only sometimes coded in assembly then you know practically fuck all about coding on the C64.

>>4505272
but the C64 has forth

Assembly was probably used for 85-90% of commercial C64 software, there really isn't another good way to code on a 1Mhz CPU.

>>4505282
was wizardry not programmed in pascal?

>>4505272
Machine language is not assembly numb nuts.

>>4499505
I've always been curious about some of the games on it, but I never got around to trying any. I really like the chiptune music on the system, though.

>>4505285
USCD p-System and you can tell because Wizardry runs like molasses.

>>4504395
>>4504363
In my experience, Europeans were better programmers than Americans but had no skill whatsoever at game design.

>>4505438
not like a RPG needs to be hyper fast

>>4505454
>>4505282
HLLs and scripting engines were fairly common on American C64 games since most of them were adventure, RPG, or strategy games that didn't need to be fast, and also to make it easier to port them to other systems. European stuff was more arcade-centered so they usually used assembly.

>>4505467
>European stuff was more arcade-centered so they usually used assembly
That's not really true unless you mean British C64 games because they didn't have any disk drives so simple arcade stuff was all they were able to do. Continental Europeans had disk drives and there are plenty of German, Swedish, Dutch, whatever C64 adventures and strategy games, but the language barrier means that they're little-known to Americans.

>>4505478
It's too bad that Commodore UK charged such rubbish prices for a disk drive. We could have some some neat things with disk-based games had they been affordable.

>>4505483
There were mountains of awful C64, Spectrum, and Amstrad tape games back in the day. You'd buy them at the corner store in a bin. Most of the things were some nonsense that a teenager wrote in his bedroom in three weeks.

>>4499505
I like making text-based adventures on mine. But my drive drive can read disks, but cannot save anything to the disks. So alas, my adventure games are lost after I shut off the machine.

>>4505524
The head is out of alignment. That happens a lot on 1541 drives especially the Alps mech ones.

>>4505272
You sound confused kid. Assembly isn't ML.

>>4505272
>ML is assembly
And the second roleplaying kiddo of the thread appears.

It was a fascinating machine back then and stiil is. I remember wading through the copied disks and many were an adventure on their own... so much software to test, with some of it being truly good.

Never programmed as a child because I could not make out what all these funky shortcuts(mnemonics) were supposed to mean and how this all interfaced with what I wanted the machine to do. It also appeared like a LOT of work to get something worthwhile going.

>>4499505
Came on this board hoping to find something like this. I grew up with one of those plug-n-play Commodore 64 TV games collections, and they're fantastic. I think games are certainly a strong point for this system. Paradroid, Impossible Mission, Jumpman Junior, and Tower Toppler are some of my faves.

My friend recently got a VIC-20 and our playing real game cartridges on there has sparked my interest in learning 6502 assembly and making my own VIC and 64 games. I love learning about the memory structure and computer architecture.

>>4499954
Completely agree, its a simple enough machine that I feel like I can comprehend it entirely. It's so cool :D

>>4506458
I'm beginning to suspect there's only one larper on /vr/ and he's role playing living in a world where everyone except him is larping

>>4508350
I'm beginning to suspect that if you somehow mistake ML for Assembly, you don't know anything even remotely akin to the skill you're claiming.

>>4508350
Then stop larping. You won't have to suspect whether or not people know you're lying, or whether they're going to call you on it.

>>4508803
>mistake ML for Assembly
I didn't, and that has nothing to do with noticing that there seems to be some cunt calling people larpers in every thread where someone claims to have done something more complicated than spooning with an anime pillow.

>pointing out that i'm larping about others larping is larping
Is there anything that isn't larping in your book?

>>4509670
>I didn't.
Oh, so you're the other bullshitter.
>>4501024
>>4501747
This guy, right?

>there seems to be some cunt calling people larpers in every thread
There's a lot of people that do exactly that. Most people don't even notice it, as it isn't directed at them. It's not one person, and it isn't every thread. The reason you seem sensitive to it is precisely because it applies to you.

>>4505432
>>4506317
>>4506458
assembly is a representation of machine language, dumbos. Saying that Assembly is not ML is like saying that Macs aren't PCs.

>>4510098
So not just you but other redditors as well?

>>4510187
Nah,it's like saying saying assembly isn't ML. There's no need to come up with some contrived analogy in hopes you can twist it into some sperglord gotcha. Anyone who has a clue knows what each is and anyone like you doesn't matter.

>>4510435
>everyone who calls me on my bullshit is reddit
Like pottery.

>>4510745
>still role playing living in a world where no one has accomplished more than a neet

>>4511650
>still upset about getting called out for larping
Yeah, I can see that. Maybe stop doing it? That way you don't have to babysit threads for days on end, in an embarrassed rage, hoping to get the last word in.

I wish that cunt who keeps calling other people roleplayers would fuck off from C64 threads.

I wish that embarrassed roleplayers would stop shitposting.