/vr/ - Retro Games

I agree. Metroid is one of my all time favorite games

It needed a map.

>>4483069

This, you basically had to draw your own and reference it constantly. But there still weren't enough visual cues.

>>4483069
Not having a map is one of the reasons why it's kind of scary though, I know it can be frustrating but I'm willing to accept it as part of the experience

>>4483080

I don't mind drawing my own map usually, but Metroid isn't a game that lends itself well to map making. Really, if it's not grid based, it's not something you can easily map.

>>4483056
I get those feelings from Super Metroid myself without the whole "I've seen this screen before I think..." every ten seconds. Even if the lack of a map creates tension in itself, the lack of a map damages so much else that it really hinders things if you ask me. It also doesn't make a lot of sense to have a high tech suit and weaponry with no map, so there is that too.

>>4483084

There aren't any scary Metroid games. They're action games.

The series died with super and the utter casualization of this genre. If you believe otherwise, we’ll, it’s fine to be a younger person, these newer games were made with you in mind.

>>4483132
They have ominous music, alien monsters, when you take an elevator it's tense and you have a sense of foreboding. It is an action game but it's supposed to make you uneasy like you're actually alone exploring a hostile alien planet. You don't select "horror" or "action" from a drop down menu and then that locks in the type of reaction the player is going to have lol. If you don't feel the tension in Metroid you're kind of missing out, it's one of my favorite things about the series. I have a feeling you are badly autistic and will just post back "It's an action game. It's an action game. It's an action game." though

>>4483167

Your post is full of autism.

>>4483056
I can definitely see where you're coming from, and think the NES original (and Metroid 2, for that matter) gets a lot more hate than it really deserves.

All the classic-style Metroid games are good. Fusion is different, but not in a bad way, and Samus Returns is excellent. If you have a New3DS I definitely recommend getting the Fusion Samus amiibo, since it unlocks a higher difficulty level.

>>4483171
Why don't you explain what. You can't. Because you are literally a fucking trainable and when you die your family will be relieved, hopefully you do while they'll still notice

>>4483132
>he doesn't think action games can be scary

My friend I have someone to introduce you to

>>4483176
>Why don't you explain what.

Is this supposed to mean something, autist? Every post you've made so far is special pleading. The fact that you're so upset by this is very telling.

>>4483184
Not Phanto?

>>4483187
Special pleading what the fuck are you even talking about. All I said was I like the tension you feel in Metroid, originally because I think not having a map in the first one adds to it. I knew you were going to try to claim victory because I said you should die too that's fucking hilarious, that is not how shit works

>>4483198

You need to go learn what special pleading is. Saying stuff like this
>I have a feeling you are badly autistic and will just post back "It's an action game. It's an action game. It's an action game." though
>I knew you were going to try to claim victory because I said you should die too that's fucking hilarious, that is not how shit works
is special pleading.

You're a retard (and might actually be autistic, if this is your actual thought processes) if you jump to conclusions like these.

FYI you're still wrong about Metroid being a horror game. It's simply not a scary game, which is why six year olds played it no problem.

>>4483236
I didn't say it was a horror game so your whole central point there goes nowhere. I assumed you're a fucking retard because you felt like you needed to correct my comment about an aspect of it I like because you believe it is the wrong kind of game to make you feel that, and you've further demonstrated that you actually believe this is how media works by saying I must be calling it a horror game if I said I felt like it was even slightly scary.

And again, if you don't feel uneasy in rooms like OP's picture, walking up to some kind of frozen monster while ominous music plays, you are missing out on an aspect of the game and may have some kind of mental defect, either that diminishes your capability to see and understand things like a normal human, or, which would be hilarious, you actually are only capable of feeling one thing at a time based on what you believe the game is supposed to be for. The third possibility is you think it makes you tough or something to say something didn't scare you, which would also be funny and pitiful because you're actually right it's not a very scary game. It's mildly spooky. This all began because you seem to think action games cannot be mildly spooky.

>>4483190
Was trying to keep it worksafe you sicko, now i'm too spooked to function for the rest of the evening.

>>4483258

Autism in a post.

Do you actually think about what other people see when they read your posts? Two paragraphs complaining about someone "feeling the need to correct your comment" when that's all you're doing.

You keep screaming shit about autism, retardation, and mental defects while being the epitome of it.

>>4483261
You gave up trying to accuse me of special pleading pretty quick, I didn't even address that because it makes no fucking sense

If your reaction to someone saying they liked the mild spookiness in Metroid is to say it can't be because of the genre you have something wrong with you. I wrote two paragraphs because the extent to which you are wrong and a faggot compels me.

>>4483056

In Super the areas are a lot more well defined and distinct from each other and it only really guides you until you get your first bombs and missiles, after that it opens up greatly.

the original like a lot of NES games just drops you in willy nilly and you spend hours figuring out the basic mechanics and gameplay logic. Like the ability to grind for health and ammo at certain places and that avoiding enemies is better than engaging in combat.

I love Metroid for its breaking of sidescroller conventions, but man is it tedious.

>>4483069
Metroid really doesn't need a map. I'd say it would be a detriment to this kind of game (and it was a detriment to Super Metroid, although unlike OP I still fund Super to be a better game overall).

>>4483080
This anon brings up a fair point. The original Metroid doesn't have enough visual cues. A bunch of places are seemingly copy-pasted around and there's no big discernible difference. Thing is, if the environment has visual cues that make each part discernible from each other, you should no longer need a map, and area recognition should instead become part of the game.

>>4483108
>It also doesn't make a lot of sense to have a high tech suit and weaponry with no map, so there is that too.
I don't really think this matters (and it's not necessarily true either), since whatever available technology you have can be motivated any number of different ways, and videogames dgaf either way since available "tech" is based around what makes sense from a game design perspective. If we are gonna talk about what "makes sense" then Samus should enter each game decked out with much stronger weapons, including hitscan rapid fire weapons because that shit is just more efficient than shooting yellow orbs with a similar velocity to a thrown baseball.

This post is already way too long, but I just really think there's a good case for exploration based games not having maps at all, or at least not the insanely useful ones with player markers. If you design your environment with proper landmarks, even really complicated mazes or vast open worlds, player's will eventually learn to navigate by these landmarks if they start paying attention and using their memory. This in turn will develop this ability and they'll be able to do it more efficiently in more games. Players will then just in general start taking in more about their environments and getting richer experiences from the worlds they explore.

>>4483271

I gave up on what exactly? I pointed out your retardation and it sticks. Don't worry, it's still pretty clear that you're throwing wild accusations. Unlike your handwaving in every post, mine comments about you are true.

You wrote a bunch of shit because you can't back up your point and that bothers you.

Here's another point, I never said an action game can't have scary parts.

There's a lot you do wrong, like the part where you took the implications of someone saying "action game", are clearly taking it personally (lol cause you're wrong), and are trying to make it personal over the internet. I can see why you got so desperate in your first reply to be the first to say autist since it fits you so well.

>>4483286
not the guy you're arguing with but dude shut the fuck up

>>4483289

No, he's a retard and I'll just call it like it is.

>>4483056
This is exactly why Samus Returns sucked. It tried to turn Metroid 2 into Super Metroid. I don't want your background music, I don't want your maps, I don't want your blocks that display what you need to destroy them, and I don't want fucking Ridley (come on, seriously?).

If I wanted Super, I'd play Super. They should have made a new Metroid game and just left 2 as it is.

>>4483291
Simmer down there, internet crusader of truth and justice

>>4483291
And you're a shitposting autist. I wish you'd both go away.

>>4483286
Autism is overused as an insult but it definitely applies when someone seems to have difficulty accepting that not everything fits into rigid categories, and the flat way you stated it's the wrong genre to be scary made me think I was dealing with someone who might be mentally abnormal. I've also had this argument before since the tension and unease you feel is one of the things I really like about the Metroid series, but when I bring it up certain people seem to have extreme difficulty with the idea that these things can be part of an experience that isn't full stop trying to scare you. I probably jumped in a little harder than I had to but I think it was reasonable for me to expect dumb shit in response from someone who doesn't recognize that things like the room in OP's picture are supposed to be creepy

>>4483132
Metroid II is legitimately unnerving, also maybe my favorite in the series

>>4483171
>Your post is full of autism.

Man, imagine if you fucks could have an actual discussion instead of posting insults and refusing to consider the contents of the other person's posts.

>>4483056
>is refinement necessarily a good thing
It's always a good thing
Don't get me wrong the original Metroid was fantastic but suffered from really obvious flaws

>play game about exploration
>get lost
What the fuck, how could they allow this? I'm glad Gunpei Yokoi died.

>>4484176
It'd be fine to get lost in a game about exploration if the areas in the game actually had a unique look to them instead of having literal copy pasted rooms..

I fucking love metroid 1

It's unironically the first metroid I played(on the gba/nes classics), and while it was frustrating because of the starting gun being pellet sized, the world was absorbing and mysterious. Yah, it repeated rooms, but it helped to make you feel isolated, and you really had to memorize where you were or where you were going, and enticed you to draw a map. The world felt very bizarre and otherworldly, and lots of the enemies were easily believable as space aliens. the gameplay itself was very good, blasting aliens and platforming over the landscape, carefully making it through the tunnels with metroid a popping out of nowhere, and goddamn if the final fight with MB isn't fun as fuck

I just wish dying wasn't so punishing, having to farm your health back up sucks

>>4483087
It is grid based though. One screen-one grid. Use letter codes to mark pickups, weak walls, grinding spots.
You gotta do some counting for scrolling parts, but they all they are all X screens wide or tall with no fractions, so it's not impossible.

I’ve always hated NES Metroid, but just recently I attempted again with no help from a walkthrough and only using my memory for the map. The game becomes enjoyable once you get the screw attack and can kill the 20-health dropping enemies with ease. I never found the varia suit or wave beam, but I enjoyed the last half of the game

>>4483069
It doesn't. Use your memory.

Mfw the bf got me some Amiibo for Christmas, including a couple Samus ones. \o/

>>4483151
>phoneposter
>not young
Pick one, sweetie.

>>4483056
this is what hipsters actually believe

does this mean a game like Super-Mario Bros is "lonely and isolating" because of repetitive backgrounds and dark skies?

Give me a break

>>4483080
>>4483084
>>4484832
This is really what it comes down to. Metroid is still an enjoyable game, and I'll defend the experience of keeping your own notes with pen and pad to the death, but after the first game, they learned a lesson: either include a minimap, or give your environments enough variety and include landmarks so that your players can learn the layout. Or make your game more linear like in Metroid II. All of these are valid solutions. Letting the player get lost can be fun, but you have to ask yourself if making the player feel like they're lost in a labyrinth was the point.

>>4484918
SMB on the NES can sometimes be a little bit lonely, although that was clearly never the developer's intent. You run through a solid 20 minutes of levels, never really stopping or paying attention to the landmarks, and then at the end of a dark castle there's just a guy in a mushroom hat saying "SORRY CHAMP, SHE'S NOT HERE." The only real constant is yourself, the player. Obviously I'm not saying it gets, like, dark and moody, but it can be a little agoraphobic, even compared to, say, SMB3.

>>4483184
AHHH!

>>4483056
>Sequel improves the controls, has better maps, deeper mechanics, better soundtrack, more interesting enemies, better graphics. Adds features the original was too limited to include. Fixes common complains and bad decisions. Essentially an improvement in every way.
>But the first game did this one thing different, so that makes it better, right?
Every time.

>>4484968
>people like different things
>oh my gersh you guys

>>4483056
>but is refinement necessarily a good thing?

By definition, yes.

Metroid and Super Metroid have the same goal but approach it from different directions. I personally prefer Metroid's approach, but I totally understand people preferring Super's approach. Both are really great games.

>>4484936
>Letting the player get lost can be fun, but you have to ask yourself if making the player feel like they're lost in a labyrinth was the point.
I'm of the opinion that it was. I love Metroid's approach of "here you are, figure it out. Survive."

>>4484936
Yes, they were intentionally fucking with you and trying to make you feel lost. This is clear towards the end where they put in multiple icebeam rooms, and not only that, there is a secret passage in one of the icebeam rooms that you need to use to progress. So if you pop into the icebeam room and go "Oh fuck, this room again, I've gotten lost." then pop out again, you miss the secret passage.

When I played through that part and found the secret passage it was exhilerating that the game was testing my ability to that level.

Having the SNES map is good, because it gives people that completionist pay off when they explore the entire map. The SNES game is also much larger and having to keep track of the whole game in your head would have been a bit of a stretch. You also get the opportunity to plan things, like plan to go to a particular save point. But the NES game not having a map isn't a shortcoming, it's an aspect of the game that they exploited to create challenge.

>>4483174
Only Prince SevenTrap would recommend buying an aiimbo to unlock a difficulty.

>>4483286
You might be autistic anon.
You probably should give up on your losing argument. The more you type the worse you look.

>>4484294
>It is grid based though. One screen-one grid.
Exactly. As it's represented in Super Metroid. The first game is bound to be similarly formatted, only without the actual map being provided.

I've never played a game where you had to make your own map but it sounds kind of fun actually.