/vr/ - Retro Games

>using HD mods

>God tier
Human

>Shit tier
Hammer
Mechanist
Undead
Trickster Beasts
Lost City-style ancient civilization

>>4472780
Human > Hammer > Lost City > Undead > Trickster beasts >>> Mechanists

>>4472796
>>4472801

Just finished Broken Triad by Eshaktaar (the sequel to Ominous Bequest), boy that surprised me! I'd heard from some of you guys in these threads that it's a total puzzler autismfest so I was hesitant to even play it at all and I was expecting to be staring at a guide for 90% of it - quite the opposite. It IS filled to the brim with puzzles, maybe too many, I'll say that, but they are all solveable with plenty of clues and indications of how you are meant to solve them.

I enjoyed both missions of BT a lot more than I thought I would and it ranks up there at the very top of T2's FMs for me, so much gameplay variety throughout and the levels are split into two very distinct styles perfectly. I much prefer the clued-in puzzles style of gameplay to the autistic pixel hunting for keys and switches from the likes of the Rocksbourg series.

I've never really been a huge fan of the "ancient civilization" mission vibe either, with The Lost City/Kidnap, Sunken Citadel in TDS and stuff like Sturmdrang Peak, it all looks cool but it also all kinda passed me by a bit and didn't retain much attention compared to stuff like Bonehoard. But damn, Tempest Isle is fucking something else, and even though it's the typical fan mission fanfic level of lore addition I really liked how it tied in to Karath'Din and all of the flavor text readables throughout, as well as how it was foreshadowed so well in Arkford (the Precursor exhibits in the musem were cool as fuck, makes me wonder if any FMs set in the times of the Precursors/Karath'Din exist actually using these models).

Very high quality FM, if you can stomach being bombarded with puzzles pretty frequently then I'd highly recommend it at least. I liked it much more than Ominous Bequest, which I still definitely enjoyed but had a harder time with some of the more obtuse stuff going on in it without a guide.

For me, kind of a non-answer because it's not strictly ranked: Undead > Hammer = Human > Trickster Beasts = Lost City > Mechanist

>>4472780
>God tier
1. Lost City/Ancient Civilisation
2. Pagan
3. Undead
4. Hammer

>who cares
5. Human
6. Mechanist

>>4472809
>It IS filled to the brim with puzzles, maybe too many
That's the thing. Every new area is locked behind a puzzle, and even though the puzzles are very well implemented, the mission feels really artificial and patronizing to the player; there's exactly one way to play it and it's almost impossible to go off the rails. It becomes a lot more noticeable on a second playthough. Ominous bequest was a lot more restrained than this, and allowed the player some freedom in how they approach the objectives. Also the story just felt like a rehash of ominous bequest, but with worse pacing.

>>4472780
>Rank
Yuck!
When are we going to update the FM playlist?

>>4472831
Yeah I can definitely see your points. I still absolutely prefer the exploration-style "puzzle solving" that skacky is a proponent of but this linear puzzle stuff is a nice change of pace especially when it's presented as well as it is in BT. It's still infinitely superior to pixel hunting as I mentioned.

Something to note is that not all OMs were nonlinear sandboxes, Mage Towers for example gets a bad rap for being linear but something I like about it is how Garrett has to do his research and investigation in the mage keep before figuring out what the deal with the towers and the talisman are. Linear gameplay progression inside of larger sandbox environments can and do have a precedent set in Thief.

As for your comment about the pacing I feel basically the total opposite of that desu, it adds enough new stuff to the OB story as a continuation to be more than just a rehash and it's spread across two pretty long missions instead of just one this time.

>>4472839
Probably never. You talk the talk, but do you walk the walk?

>>/vr/thread/S4335850#p4352518
>It's a shame really that the priest is so careless in his spellcasting. When he launches his hammer, he doesn't care who is hit. At the same time, the hammerites don't care they could get hit. Nobody comments on the friendly fire, only that that someone is hurt. They don't blame themselves. Additionally, they run after you like headless chickens and they have very limited mobility. They can't climb, jump or swim. Maybe you could create a singular AI with NPCs as his playing pieces, instead of NPCs with each their own AI. He wants to kill you and preserve itself. It could allow for spontaneous traps and interceptions. Should NPCs be given more mobility? How does that influence the player in his risk calculation?

Is it possible to make the AI smarter? How?

>>4472848
I'm probably going to end up doing it at some point but I've still got a few big-name FMs to check off my backlog before I could feel valid making a recommendation list that may or may not include them and such.

Your recommendation list or /vr/'s recommendation list?

>>4472848

I swear to fucking GOd, I want to learn how to make guards with sheathed swords.

Back in 1999 it was okay but this is getting to me somehow.

I just got Thief Gold off of GOG.
What am I in for?

>>4472927
28% stealing from people
11% stealing from wizards
22% stealing from undead
39% stealing from monsters

>>4449298
It doesn't seem to work. I run the command. I check by going to Editors -> Mission Quest Data. The quest variables are not created.

>>4449298
It doesn't seem to work. I run the command. I check by going to Editors -> Mission Quest Data. The quest variables are not created.

>>4472780
human>undead>hammer>lost city>trickster>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>mechanist

>>4449298
I think I made a mistake when using GM.

>>4472927

Probably the best game made in the West imo ( strategy and simulation excluded).

Not without its flaws, but its so different, so bizarre yet so recognizable that I wish we lived in a alternate universe where to counterpoint Japanese action oriented games we have just a flowing of Thief and Deus Ex games.

But then again, I think its karmically kinda even because over the years I have seen so many LGS ideas in other games that I think the seeding was successful.

what is this fag doing
he just stands there
pointing

is there a secret here that I'm missing? or is he just a broken machine?

>>4473143
he's supposed to "warn" the servant that stood there, even if you bonked her. even if the servant was still awake, she'd never pay any attention to the cherub.

it's safe to ignore him.

>>4449298
Should I follow anything else from this part of the tutorial?
https://nickdablin.wordpress.com/2014/01/13/absolute-beginners-guide-to-creating-a-mission-for-thief-2-part-six/

I was there /v/

>>4473509

>>4473526

You can't EHH on this thread. You'll ruin it.

Does anyone have that old Vocaroo of some guy redubbing the bear pits conversation as it would appear in Thief 4?

>>4474310
Nvm I found it. https://vocaroo.com/i/s1tFISk5LGZv
>COULDN'T PINCH MY NIPPLES HARD ENOUGH

The Assassination
At times I miss sound brushes and the music of lockpicking.
I believe the author started off with one giant air brush and build the castle and all that afterwards. Should you do that?

>>4473526
the funny thing is that Dante in Nocturne was a pretty cool cameo and I do actually like both of those series a lot.

>>4474931
the meme is not as much about dante being there as it's about ruining the box for a highly anticipated game. dante is cool and all, but he's not the reason that people wanted the game.

SMT nocturne is probably one of the most loved and ambitious titles for the ps2, but that label makes it look cheap as fuck.

>>4474941
I see where that anon comes from, considering what the future probably reserves for videogames, Dante is the least of our problems.

Is there any sort of alternate hud that hides the health bar and only displays the gem?

I think its something LGS missed that would help the game.

>>4475342
You could always replace the health bar graphic with an empty image.

>>4475347
Really?

Let me check the folders.

>>4475347
>>4475348

I have no idea what to do.

>>4475437
Did you find the actual graphics? I don't know which folder they're in but they're probably either an image format that supports transparency of they have a pre-designated alpha color. You'll need a program like Photoshop or Gimp to edit them though, otherwise it may mess up the file's color profile and corrupt the file.
Basically what you need to do is pick the designated transparency color of the image and fill the image with just that. So the health shields are all rendered as fully transparent.

I just played through Curse of the Skull Goblet. Overall it was a pretty enjoyable mission, but it had its ups and downs.

The first part of the mission takes place on a boat, with forced ghosting. This part plays okay, but it also feels a bit amateurish. First of all, it looks pretty ugly. It's supposed to be a 19th century-end of century styled ship, but the choice of textures is weird, and the author also uses some of the worst thinkable HD textures. I guess the main point of this part was to serve as an introduction to part two.

The second part takes place in a ruined port town populated by pagan beasts and extra tough human enemies. Curiously, this part doesn't only remove the ghosting, but also the kill restriction, even on expert. This is where the FM really shines, in my opinion. It has some of the best looking ruins I've seen in an FM, and there's lots of parkouring to be done. It also gets pretty spooky towards the end.

Damn you can really feel the Thief DNA in Splinter Cell.
Played the first 3 in a row recently and are pretty good today if a bit clumsy.

>>4475698
That second mission sounds pretty cool, gonna give this one a go.

>>4475705

Also try Styx: Master of Shadows if you haven't.

I've been getting into FMs lately and just finished All Torc + Stone and Glass Houses. I've really enjoyed these two, anyone have recommendations for FMs in a similar style?

>>4475770
Back again, my thoughts:

First of all, part 1 is ok, I liked the view of the waves/water, maybe some of the best of that type I've seen on a "boat mission". The gameplay itself is a little stale, a lot of the boat itself is very samey, long hallways with doors leading off into rooms, not very complex.

I guess it's the "prologue" though, don't know why the author wouldn't just split up the mission into two different missions, the fact that it's all part of one level is pretty impressive, sure, but it means that for replay value it doesn't make a lot of sense, since both parts are wildly different experiences with their own objectives and some people might only want to replay part 2 for example.

About part 2, it's a bit of a mixed bag. The beginning area and then the caves/mines themselves are pretty fucking bland and boring. Huge ass long mine hallways with some pagans scattered about, meh. When you get out into the ruins area it starts to get really good again, I even hopped up on to the highest roofs out here with the help of some crates, one of them has a taffer award scroll similar to A New Tomorrow and the other building has a switch which fires noisemaker arrows into the sky and calls down friendly hammerite paratroopers from who knows where, they then swarm the town. Was not expecting that, thought I'd get a fireworks show at the most.

Once you're done with the ruined town area the level unfortunately forces you back underground into a different set of caves. This place is... not great. I like what the author was going for with the roots and vines and shit but it's awkward to move around in with weird collision on some objects, it's not really clear the shaman skull can be frobbed on to the hand-vines that block that one entrance. The captain of the ship is conveniently locked up down here with a convenient holy water vial that you need to beat the boss of the mission, which is pretty contrived.

(cont)

>>4475975
Continuing on, you throw the holy water in the source and then the dumbest part of the mission by far comes up. Something happens that I've only ever seen in Shadow of Doubt (to my dismay) previously - you can get stuck in an area while alive and not really knowing you're stuck until it's too late. In Shadow of Doubt this is an underwater cave in Nightcrawler that you have no way of exiting once you enter it, if you save in there you're fucked if you don't have a few backup saves.

In this mission it's when you're exiting after defeating the boss of the mission, the green dryad Viktoria-like woman shows up and if you're a moment too late she can trap the only way out with vines, this pretty much isn't telegraphed and you can end up in a position where you are perfectly alive, with the dryad woman behind you, while you're in the dark not being seen (safe) and the exit in front of you is blocked.

This dryad woman is invulnerable and cannot be killed (I tried 2 mines, 2 fire arrows, 40 broadheads to the head and a flashbomb with a few backstabs and nada), you can even run out back the way you came from behind her but you're basically permanently stuck in this area. This is a very poorly designed scripted sequence that can literally trap a player if they run for the obvious dark corner right by this door when it closes and end up saving in here before engaging the dryad.

Luckily since my incident with Shadow of Doubt, every single FM I have played since I make a separate real save like every 5 minutes (basically savescum insurance for shitty FM authors in case I get stuck while playing the game totally normally), and in this case it's the only time since that I've actually had to make use of it to get myself out of this situation (I got stuck because I literally quicksaved while I was running through this hallway and the vines closed in front of me).

So yeah. Not terrible, not good either, it has some VERY glaring issues from a gameplay perspective though.

>>4475824
Already did, but Splinter Cell is actually much closer to the feel of Thief.
The darkness mechanic, the footstep sounds, everything is more simple sure but very Thief.

Styx feels more modern.

>>4476608
I disagree. Splinter Cell levels are much more linear and the player's ability to navigate them is more limited. Secondly, Sam always has a support team with him in his earpiece. Styx is all alone and does his internal monologue just like Garrett. Thirdly Styx is a tiny goblin and is supposed to avoid combat at all costs, and the level design reflects that. Splinter Cell often puts the player in unavoidable combat situations.
Though I'm actually just talking about the first Styx game here. I haven't yet installed the new one even though I have it.

>>4476615
Thats what I meant by a more simple Thief. Splinter Cell fells closer to Thief mechanics by its age.

I am not bashing Styx.

>>4476608
>>4476615
so splinter cell has more thief-ish gameplay, while styx has a more thief-ish structure/setting?

do solid brushes use up cells too, or is only air brushes?

>>4475979
I see where you're coming from, but I'm not not sure I agree with you all the way here.

First of all: I do agree that the mines were awful. From a gameplay POV they still work, because they offer some kind of gameplay challenge (the moving guards can only be approached from behind, lack of hiding places forces you to be on the move, etc). Still, it's not very pretty, and certainly not very original.

However, I disagree about the part with the roots. For me, this part felt very well designed. I liked the general idea of a man-made structure consumed by roots. It looked really pretty, and moving through it felt pretty cool too. The author really managed to capture the "natural" feel for the root system.

I was not aware of the issue you mentioned were you could get stuck. Obviously I can't defend that particular element, but I did enjoy the escape sequence when I played through it. The newly spawned tree monsters served to keep things spooky after that. Having rescuing the captain as a bonus objective was a nice human touch after all the edginess and human suffering in the mission.

For me, the two highlights in the mission were the exploring the ruins, but also the shipwreck in the beginning. I remember trying to make sense of it when I first saw it. I almost mistook it for a natural cave, until I explored it further. The way the entire ship became a huge, burnt out hull, containing recognisable details like the door, just felt really cool. When you go through that and exit into the open, it's just a really cool spatial experience.

>>4473163
Yes, I should continue with the [Quest Variables] part of the tutorial.

>>4476856
I would say yes.

>>4477083
Now my objectives won't show up. I'll look at it tomorrow.

>>4477085
In that case I might pick up Styx, as I mainly play Thief to explore the world as opposed to perfect my stealth ability, for example I mostly play Thief on hard

>>4477232
You will like the levels some are better than dishonored.
I am the opposite, I absolutely love the stealth aspect because tons of other games have decent exploration.

Not ghosting, just revelling in playing patiently with no saves.

Trail of Blood 2, another one to put in the "okay but overrated" pile of FMs. It looks nice and it's basically a visual clone of parts of maw of chaos + trail of blood but the geometry is cramped and tough to move around through (literally got stuck on a sprite in a hallway and got crushed to death against the wall), has some dumb platforming to it (mainly the gigantic vine you climb at the waterfall then have to jump off to a floating platform, if you don't savescum this jump you'll probably miss it 3 times and spend all that time climbing back up the vine) and the mantling on this mission is janky (many of the knee-high water areas are extremely hard to jump out of and you can't mantle up the edges of the pools for some reason).

Other than all these assorted movement-related issues it's basically a glorified fetch quest with backtracking, looking for key gems to open one portal, looking for 2 items to open another portal, bringing back all the rust gas containers to the tanks. Also a minor and funny occurrence, the one useful note in the mission that tells you the location of all of the key gems is one you can't pick up and read on the go.

I liked the pagan tree village that you have to sneak through without any blackjacks (even though it's not hard at all to do so, it's a simplistic area) and then get to the shaman to show the jacknall's paw to her. The other pagan village with the mechanists around was alright, with them holed up under the floor.

By the end of it you've sabotaged the mechanist tanks and reopened viktoria's portals and such but after all of that backtracking and fetch questing I was just glad it was over. Not a really fulfilling experience.

>>4472785
>using "updated" engines that change the lighting and rendering

On the topic of similar games, I've recently run into one called Seven: Days Long Gone, which claims to be a stealth-rpg game, and I've seen people compare it to Thief in the user reviews (though it looks closer to Dishonored with the CHOOSE YOUR PLAYSTYLE kind of gameplay). Has anybody played it?

>>4474927
It definitely feels like the whole levels is floating in space. Maybe placing buildings along the edge would have avoided this feeling, although it's not an entirely elegant solution. I think the author wanted to give the impression that the castle is located in the countryside.
It doesn't look like it but there's more than a way to enter the castle, you can directly end up in the basement or in what I suppose are the head priest quarters. It's pretty great, since the latter is a room you would need a key for if you started from the lower level. You have to exit the room from the same balcony, but that's the price of freedom.
The first impression the castle gives does its job well: there're guards everywhere. On the two towers, on the wall walks, on the balcony and in the courtyard. At first I felt like I had to plan my moves very carefully. But here's the catch, they're all hammers. Even if the sound issue that completely silenced some guards (creating a surreal reverse Thief situation) got me into a couple of fights, all the other guards couldn't do nothing but watch and yell at me from their high ground. Karras probably recognized this fundamental weakness of the Hammerites when he added crossbows and bombs-firing robots to his ranks. I understand not wanting to break the thematic coherence of the mission by using bow guards. I really wish AIs were able to climb down ladders.
Again, tombs used as beds, weird choice (or sign of a very austere way of life). No flee point for the servants, I'm surprised we didn't find the same problem in earlier missions. And finally, the trilogy of useless equipment store is complete, ending with a completely empty store. We now find out that not only Garrett is getting into financial troubles (enough to turn him into a hitman), but the black market is suffering the same problem. Dark times for the City.

>playing sturmdrang
>climbing around through some rafters
>make a bunch of noise while climbing around and a guard comes to check out the room
>throw down a gas mine onto the floor, the guard steps on it and is knocked out
>thinking im safe i start firing rope arrows into the ceiling and jumping all around again
>unbeknownst to me there was actually a second guard in the room, and he just saw some taffer take out his buddy
>he has a bow and arrow. get shot in the back, 5 health left
>fuck
>start dancing around on this super narrow platform dodging arrows while sifting through my inventory to think of something i can use
>i have exactly one slowfall potion
>thank fuck
>drink it and start slowly descending to the ground while the guard tries to shoot me out of the air
>get to the floor, throw a flash bomb in his face and knock him out
>mfw

Sometimes Thief just makes you feel like a badass in a way that no other games can. No supernatural powers or fighting ability, just you, your wits, and whatever equipment you have on hand.

>>4478547
>mfw i totally forgot to add my face.

is there a "bulk FM pack" available for download anywhere?
gonna be without internet for a bit
downloading 1 by 1 isn't a problem but it would be nice to have all the top recommended fan missions without needing to search for them

>>4478554
you don't want most top recommended FMs anyway. 99% of the top recommended missions are shit anyway. the modding community sees inconsistent use of high poly models as innovative and tiny switches in the dark as "hardcore".

ttlg is the worst thing to happen to thief fms

>>4478605
Why's this? I'm fairly new to the Thief community and most of the FMs I've played from TTLG have been pretty good.

Since the FM lists that always get posted are apparently controversial, why don't we make a new one?

>>4478617

toxic community that encourages bad design and shitty missions in general

From best to worst

Lost City-style ancient civilization
Human
Undead
Mechanist
Hammer
Trickster Beasts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzkAJugJWkE

Apparently there's a ultimate difficulty mod. It makes the npc's not as deaf and blind as they are in the original game.

I can't find it. Can someone reupload it?

>>4478708
I will try it as well.
I need a new challenge

Although I am conflicted because I am so fucking accustomed to Thief that playing it with no saves and regular difficulty makes it a quite challenging game.

Guys, I've played Thief Gold till The Lost City with Tfixer and all the Thief 2 shit turned on.
Did I fuck up? Should I reinstall?

>>4478721
No. Tfix "fixes" are okay. There is very little change.

Only stupid HD mods ruin it.

>>4478547
Nice.
That's how I felt in Assasins, where you have to escape the streets full of roaming thugs. I got lost and outnumbered, jumped leap-of-faith style into the water because I didn't have a way out. Swam exactly into the other part of the streets, where I needed to be, and quickly got the hell out.
Felt like a fuckin' movie.

>>4478721
Might as well. It's really bothersome that TFix presents all of those as the default. If backing up your saves doesn't work for whatever reason you can just use the ctrl+alt+shift+end skip level command to reach where you left off in the new install.

>>4478649
Did you read previous thread(s) and the proposed ideas?

>>4478808
Nope.

>>4478728
>game devs pour millions of dollars into making their games all "cinematic" with setpieces and scripted animations that take control away from the player
>it's always been so much easier and cheaper to just let players create their own cinematic moments and also works better in terms of gameplay.
I don't understand.

>>4479131
Cultural decay

>>4475705
>>4476608
I got to play the Thief games one day. I need to just binge on all three of these franchises actually. Throw in some Tenchu as well.

>>4479272
Of all Thief leaves a really bitter taste.
We have not evolved past it in mechanics only on the technical side.

Just played Hammerite Imperium Team - Seven Shades of Mercury. The presentation is top notch, the concept is interesting, the visuals are great and the gameplay is mostly pretty good but I had a huge problem with the "get your gear back" objective, why it exists and the way the game expects you to go about doing that.

First of all, you get gas arrowed while crossing a bridge by the goldfags and you fall off the bridge but somehow you've lost all your gear during this. Then the game tells you and indicates to you that the goldfags took your gear and stashed it, which is technically true but the game expects you to go through this tiny fucking hole in the ceiling with a wooden beam above it in one of the first tunnels in the blue area (it's super hard to even notice), after you get the rope arrows and come back there - because that's the intended route to your gear from the designers of the map.

The gold area is filled to the brim with locked doors and locked chests and shit when I tried to go through the non-tunnel route and it was swarming with guards and tile floors. I actually did the Silver & Black areas without my gear (basically ghosting+using those electro mine things). The intended routes to certain places are treated more like secrets and that's my major issue with it. It became a headache after a while and I resorted to using a guide to find my way to my gear because I was running into so many locked doors and the interiors of the academy were pretty mazelike.

>>4478708
>>4478713

Is the ultimate difficulty a good mod?

>>4479281
I've played plenty of Tenchu, MGS and Splinter Cell. Thief is still completely new territory for me. Same with Styxx. Sadly stealth as a genre is so damn niche since it is too hard for people to get into. At one point I was getting into the genre a lot and had some high hopes for it when 360 and ps3 came along. Only to then be disappointed that the genre was then turned into a joke.

>>4478678
Anyone that complains about a "toxic community" immediately loses my attention.

>>4479671

found the ttlgtard

>>4480016
Toxic post my friend.

>>4478678
>>4479671
>>4478617
Well, it's more like the total antithesis of a toxic community. TTLG is a hugbox where even the worst/most flawed FMs get praised as good and FM testers are too far up their own/the author's ass about the pretty visuals to tell the authors why certain gameplay ideas they had are tedious and generally not fun, so the authors usually learn nothing from the experience of making maps and keep tripping over the same problems in their following ones.

Instead of TTLG users providing the much needed criticism which could help authors make a mission geared towards an actual human being and not an autistic switch-searching cyborg they just blow smoke up the author's ass.

As a result of this hugbox environment there are like 4 obtuse autism FM authors for every 1 that understands that hiding a switch in a dark corner of a room as part of the main route of progression through a mission is not a fun or interesting way to pad out game length. I'd take a 30 minute FM where I can pass through areas without having to stop, drop and search under every desk or cupboard in every room rather than having to suffer through an hour of that.

>>4480090
Well you run all the gamut really.

80% mediocre or shit 20% actually good and surprising original LGS maps.

Just like Doom wads.

I just want more FMs with TDP OM tier quality, and preferably made in the same style as the TDP OMs.

>>4478847
:/
Alright, If you feel like playing a grave robber, what missions would you play? What questions would you ask about them?

>>4480530
If I knew which ones to play I wouldn't be asking questions, not sure what you mean by that.
My favorite grave robber/undead missions are Sepulchre of the Sinistral, Inverted Manse, and Breathing Corpses. If I was making a list I'd include those. There are a more I might also include, but quality > quantity, so maybe I'd keep it to those. I also like Ruins of Originia and Broadsword of Sheol but those are full of autism so I would definitely not include them.

>>4480530
If I knew which ones to play I wouldn't be asking questions, not sure what you mean by that.
My favorite grave robber/undead missions are Sepulchre of the Sinistral, Inverted Manse, and Breathing Corpses. If I was making a list I'd definitely include those three. There are more that are also worth including, but quality > quantity I'd only include them if I felt the list should be longer. I also like Ruins of Originia and Broadsword of Sheol but those are full of autism so I would definitely not include them.

>>4479671
nerd fandom is a horrible thing that makes people both stupid and unhappy. the more you engage with fandom the less you understand the thing you're supposedly a fan of. i don't read ttlg specifically but the thing the other anon explained about reinforcing horrible design is the exact kind of thing that always happens with these places. you could get a little kid to play thief and get more insight about the game from him than form someone who's been regurgitating moronic fandom consensus for years on some shithole of a forum.

>>4480553
You got at least three, so that's a start.
Why do you like those three?

>>4479131
The lather takes effort

>>4480623
I don't intend to include an essay with each entry. I have more than those three that I'd personally include, but I haven't played as many FMs as a lot of people seem to have so I'm interested if anyone ITT has suggestions for missions that they think would be a good choice for somebody who's new to FMs, or any that definitely wouldn't be.

Based off my own enjoyment, as someone who hasn't really gotten into FMs until recently, I'd include:
Unbidden Guest
Heist Society
Inverted Manse
Sepulcher of the Sinistral
Disorientation
Of Thieves and Rubies
Endless Rain
Bloodmist Tower
Ominous Bequest
Sturmdrang Peak
Gems of Provenance
Better Tomorrow
Breathing Corpses

Which is a fairly diverse set of missions. I'm mainly looking for missions that aren't more obtuse or frustrating than the OMs. For instance I'd agree with the apparent consensus that Rocksbourg shouldn't be on the list due to all the pixel hunting, even though I liked those missions.

>>4480713
>Bloodmist Tower
Christ.
I just finished this mission with no expectations of what I was going in for, and... that was so goddamned bizarre, but also really cool.
Anyone know some other really cool alternate world/exploration missions like this?

>>4480868
TG: Brainchild
T2: The Sun Within and The Sun Without
T2: Acid Trip

And yeah, it's not a great mission from a gameplay perspective but I think it's worth including because it'll put a grin on any taffer's face.

>>4480713
I don't see how some of the missions you mentioned fit the tomb raider aspect of a thief (my initial question). The reason I asked you to explain why you like those three missions, is to subsequently formulate critical questions about the setting and the gameplay. Questions a player can answer for himself. Answers to compare and to start a conversation.

Merry Christmas faggots

>>4480969
Merry Christmas, taffer boy.

>>4480930
I didn't intend for that to be a list of tomb raider missions, it's the full list of FMs that I'd want to put into a new image. The complaint I've seen about existing FM images (eg pic related) is that they contain recommendations that, for a new player, could be frustrating to the point of deterring them. So rather than focus on any particular setting or style, the new image should have missions that aren't particularly obtuse. I posted that longer list because it's a set of missions with a variety of settings and styles that I feel fall under that criteria.

If we want to go back to the first three for the sake of conversation:
>Inverted Manse
This was the first FM I ever played so maybe I'm biased toward it. It made a strong impression with good production values, such as the better-than-average intro video and custom assets/weapons/monsters that, unlike so many other FMs, feel congruent with the established Thief fiction. The level itself is huge and fairly open-ended, but there's also an overall progression through different locales which means you don't end up circling around the same area for the whole mission and you can tell when you're making progress. The mission doesn't overstay its welcome (I think it took me 90 minutes or so the first time through) but it has good replayability thanks to the unique difficulty system which changes the player spawn point and certain parts of the level layout. So with all this custom shit the mission has its own identity, but since it doesn't go all out with complex architecture and HD textures and gargantuan scale, it still feels close to a vanilla type of level. So basically it does a good job of showing what an FM can be while still being fun for anyone who wants good old fashioned taffing. I could go on but the point is that even without considering its candidacy for any list this mission kicks ass.

>>4481023
I'm not going to write a wall of text for Sepulcher or Breathing Corpses. They're both like Bonehoard taken to the next level. They're both rather mazelike and have a lot of puzzles so they're not necessarily the best choices given the criteria I gave above, but Bonehoard was a convoluted level in the first place and neither is excessively difficult. These will test the patience of anyone who didn't like Bonehoard to start with, but they'll be a treat to anyone who did.

I figure if several people list the missions that they think should be on the list, we can reach a consensus on some and work from there.

>when you are getting chased by a platoon of ~4-5 guards so you drop a flash bomb and barrel through all of them with your blackjack
"it's too hard to survive in original thief" my ass

>>4481126
>"it's too hard to survive in original thief"
t. literally no one

>>4481129

>>4481132
holy shit, did they really say all that?

>we can't allow people to move and jump at will, because it's the current year and everything has to be "smooth" and streamlined

>>4481146
Remember: a group of people unironically created Thi4f and put it up for sale. If that doesn't prove that there are dark malevolent forces beyond our understanding at work in the universe, I don't know what could.

HALP I JUST BOUGHT THEIF GOLD ON SRTEM AND I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO

>>4481172
Have this faggoty overwrought image I'm making.

>>4481172

play it?

So who's the worst FM author? Barring all the disposable "timmy's_first_test_map.zip" missions that are out there, Soul Tear gets my vote despite his technical talent.

>>4481023
My intention was this post: [>>/vr/thread/S4391912#p4423715]
Missions shouldn't be obtuse, I agree.
I don't want to talk about those FMs merely for the sake of conversation.


Melan
Project Hammer - Secret Connections
Among Two Storms
Gathering at the bar

am I casual for playing thief on hard

>>4481171
awww that's nice. What's it from?

>>4481525
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91884

>>4481497
I have Project Hammer but haven't tried it. Guess it's time to change that.

>>4481212
Gaëtane's old missions (namely the L'Arsene series) are all obtuse and janky as fuck but The Black Frog at least shows some talent towards the end of her(?) career in mapmaking.

John D made consistently mediocre missions thoughout his time but some of them achieve fun status purely because he likes monster mashes with noisemaker arrows (which I can appreciate, because it seems like he's the only one that ever bothers with this in missions), despite the 1k words per readable thing he does.

Up until DrK's last mission (A Better Tomorrow) I would have said he was fucking total garbage because I didn't like the Rocksbourg series' gameplay at all, but he seems to have learned something with each mission and has been making them less obtuse as he goes on. Kinda interested to see Rocksbourg 0 if that is ever going to come out.

For authors that have a lot of maps under their belt but seem to be consistently terrible at making fun gameplay it probably comes down to the russians like Zontik, though I really am not a fan of Sperry's stuff either (Nightcrawler specifically is one of the worst missions I've ever played and that's like the final mission of the SoD campaign unless you count the "bonus mission"). Just look to any "walk through it with a walkthrough" mission that you've played and question if you would have been able to beat it without one in a reasonable time.

For FM makers I like that have made a few: Skacky, Nicked, Yandros, Eshaktaar, Melan, Sliptip (haven't played his Kill Factory stuff but Fables & Ashen Age were good). Lady Rowena (RIP) made some decent missions but the gameplay in them was hit or miss depending on the mission, exact same goes for Saturnine. CoSaS & Hammerite Imperium have the same sort of high quality presentation style (specifically with the posh boi that voice acted their protagonists)

>>4481595
DrK himself said he doesn't understand why Rocksbourg gained hype with how shitty the first missions are. He also made Dirty Money, in which he consciously mimicked the style of a skacky mission (and for the same contest skacky made a mission based on DrK's style). With that in mind, I'm hopeful about the rest of the series (if it ever comes out).

>>4481601
Oh yeah, I completely forgot that he made Dirty Money even though I knew that while I was playing it. That was pretty damn good and you can definitely see the skacky influence in it.

For these authors I literally just threw each name into thiefmissions search list and just formed an opinion based on the missions I saw pop up.

>>4481595
Oh, I almost forgot. I find Bryan Gleason (BBB) to be mega overrated (Augustine's Revenge & Nigel's Hidden Treasure), both maps have a lot of poor architecture and level design, a massive overabundance of loot that makes it feel pointless and some obtuse gameplay points. I cannot even imagine what his older missions must be like if I didn't even enjoy his two latest ones and I don't want to find out. Probably like 50k loot per map and every building is a square box with doorways you can't fit inside of.

>>4481595
Zontik's King's Story is what comes to mind when I think of bad FMs, but he also made Upside Down so I have to give some credit.

>>4481606
I never played Nigel's Hidden Treasure but I must defend Augustine's Revenge. That mission is plain fun and while I get the comment about the architecture, there's always been something about poor architecture in TG fms that's charming. Weird things like the crayman tower stick with you.

>>4481524
not really, but you're missing a lot of extra content in the original missions.

for fan missions, it's reasonable to play in normal or hard mode the first time, since those often have ridicuous loot quotas on expert.

>>4481595
>Yandros
Looking at his released missions I see he's made a few dozen missions but I can't recall ever playing any of them (dce excluded, even though I think it's overrated). I'd put him on the same level as cardia

>Eshaktaar
Ominous bequest is great, broken triad is boring and massively overrated. His missions tend to be so puzzle heavy, classic thief gameplay often takes a backseat.

>Sliptip
Only ever played ashen age. I only remember it looked great, and that I dropped it halfway through because of how boring it was.

>Lady Rowena
A lot of her missions feel too long for their own good. Rowena's curse is like a poor man's ominous bequest with a lot more pixel hunting for switches.
Seven sisters starting map is great, but not so great that I will enjoy being forced to play it twice in a row. The third mission is all over the place, it feels like at some point it was supposed to be a bigger campaign, but the author ran out of steam and decided to mash all the unfinished missions together. It's very linear too.
The tower is by far the best mission she ever made. Short and interesting throughout, it never overstays its welcome, unlike the other ones.

>Saturnine
Rose cottage was okay, but it's just a generic haunted house romp with scripted jump scares out the ass and not a lot of actual gameplay. It looks good, though. I don't remember much about the 7th crystal other than the story being rather melodramatic.

>CoSaS
Mission X is overrated as fuck. Too ambitious for its own good. For every gimmick that works there's at least five of them that ruin the gameplay.

after I installed tfix for TDP, I no longer automatically equip items and arrows I pick up. this is extremely annoying when I pick up readables. any setting to change it back?

>>4481679
In the options menu.

>>4481680
thanks

>>4478347
>you can directly end up in the basement
How?

What do you know, a final release by Lady Rowena.
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148530&p=2380036#post2380036

>>4481174
Nice we need more people doing these. I get the feeling Thief is getting a new generation playing it.

I hope they appreciate it.

>>4482239
From the roof you can easily access the right tower from the top and from there get into the barracks or the basement, potentially finding the black chisel first.

It's the second time already we meet a fire elemental used by Hammerites to guard something important. Maybe it's because it's the least beast-like monster, a typical magical being that follows the will of its creator, and in TDP we'd met them as restless guardians of something sacred.
Like we already pointed out, Hammerites are the go to magical faction for FMs for now. I wonder if mages are gonna take their place after TG.

At first I thought this FM's architecture didn't make much sense but it just took me a while to realize the function of each room and section of the castle is pretty clear. Some elements, like the target in the priest's room, are just misleading. Architecture is not my forte anyway.

>>4481174
Not Tfix lite?

>>4481174
Is the NTEX texture pack the awful one everybody complains about or is it one more in spirit with the original game?

>>4482371
I tried TFix lite and for whatever reason it didn't work. Either way, I'd still have a section explaining why we're using lite instead of the normal version, so the content of the image would be basically the same and I doubt the filesize difference means much to most people.

>>4482378
NTEX isn't that bad but a lot of the textures repeat more noticeably than vanilla. Overall it's like why bother?

If there are any other Q&A's you think should be on there, let me know, I'll leave FM recommendations to separate images.

hmm... where have i seen this before?

>>4481657
>I'd put him on the same level as cardia
t. cardia

I'm such a pussy.
I bought thief gold for christmas and this game is creeping me out. fuckin zombies dont die man, they keep coming for this roguish man meat

>>4483685
no one told you to stop sneaking just because there are some zombies in the room, did they?

>>4483689
thx for the tip, going to leave before i get spoilered

http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148537&p=2380263&viewfull=1#post2380263

BBB's latest just released. Is it any good, /vr/?

>>4482860
Is that minecraft?

>>4483796
For anyone who has finished it: What's the loot total?

That will be the deciding factor on if I touch it or not.

>>4482270
Spooky.

>>4483928
Normal/Hard/Expert loot goals: 7000/9000/11000
Total: 14989
I didn't get to finish the mission, I just started it up and looked around a bit and skipped to the end to check the total loot. At a glance it seems similar to Augustine's so if you didn't like that, maybe pass on it. I did so I'm looking forward to finishing this later.

>>4483980
When will he learn? How many missions until he realizes that the more loot he puts in a mission the less important and satisfying each single piece of loot is to pick up? Knowing that at some point you will come across a stash or two worth 3000 each and that'll just top you up and reach the loot goal. It's just more right clicking busywork for no reason, like you're playing Thi4f and having to sit through an animation.

Whatever, I'll probably end up playing it at some point anyway because even though I do not like his mission style at all I am a bitter fuck who plays it anyway just so I can validate my opinions.

>>4483993
>he doesn't revel in making the loot pickup jingle overlap with itself

>>4483796
I tried it out, but I doubt I'll ever finish it.

it's definitely not my cup of tea. the architecture looks awful, and every area you enter feels like some outworldish abstract logic puzzle where you can only interact with a few objects that are extra important to the progression of the mission.

>have a totally cool idea for a unique fm
>realize that it would end up being an annoying gimmickfest

>>4484046

ttlg will love it

What is this shit? I'm sure I unchecked all boxes when I installed tfix.

What did I do wrong?

>>4484113
What am I supposed to be seeing here?

>>4484113
What is wrong?

Also people go apeshit over nothing, the changes the tfix does are minimal and actually improve it.

But I understand you gotta respect purists.

>>4484115
they gave me T2 models for the guards. they're supposed to look like this.

>>4484116
it's not even about purism. I just happen to like the minimalism in T1. the T2 models look out of place in the otherwise spartan environment.

>>4484118
Same here. I'm sure I unchecked everything when I installed tfix, but the guards are still using t2 models

>>4484118
Try asking in the tfix thread on ttlg.

>>4484149
iirc there was some light version of tfix. I'm gonna try that on a fresh install.

>>4484151
Be sure to share the results. Probably worth asking about anyway, could just be an oversight.

>>4483796
>When the level architecture is so janky and broken that you can't tell the difference between janking your way out of bounds and the normal route through an area
Also gotta love crouching through doorways and finding genuinely intended routes above rooftops that you have to crouch under the map ceiling (the skybox) to traverse

>>4484178
exact same result.

>>4484213
okay, I googled it, and apparently you need to remove mesh.crf from the PATCHES folder. now it looks normal again.

>>4484247
That's a strange quirk, did it seem like a recognized issue?

>>4484251
not sure. the only person I could find who asked about it was some guy who posted on ttlg in 2015. he just asked about how to install tfix and still keep the old models. most of the answers mocked and ridiculed him for being a tryhard nostalgic and wanting "obsolete" features back, but one poster was helpful enough to give him the advice to remove mesh.crf, and that's what I followed.

>>4484180
Oh yeah, something else I forgot about BBB, he loves his "Life of the Party" style city streets below that you aren't meant to be able to access and are pretty much impossible to get out of if you do find your way down there.

Except instead of how in LotP unless you do some crazy mantling on the way down you're dead, you can just jump on something on the way down or platform your way down normally and just find yourself in some low detail barren street or patrol route and have an aids-time getting out of it without just reloading. Hate this stuff.

Top pic: If you jump on the lamp or simply jump to the ground from that balcony where the ladder is to the little alleyway below you're just stucked and can't even newmantle back up on to the lamp, the doorways out are just a low detail square patrol route for a civilian AI.

Bottom pic: This whole area is a ton of buildings and you can very easily just jump down and platform down to these streets below and just be stuck, there's even a patrol route like half way down going in and out of some building that you can jump to and lose a bit of health, but it's just a low detail square hallway the guard goes in and out of.

If you're gonna have these flavor areas you have to make sure there are no half way points or shit like that which is just super easy to make your way down using. It has to be an instant death pit basically.

>>4481174
>Q: These controls suck
>A: That's not a question, ...
The question and answer have such a different tone compared to the others. Why?
And is there a difference between Thief 1 and Thief 2 when it comes to controls?

>>4484316
Just 'avin a laugh.
I don't think there's any difference in the controls, but I don't think Tafferpatcher adds any preset options like TFix does.

>>4484316
not him, but the only addition I know of in T2 are the zoom buttons.

>>4484279
From the sound of it the models you replaced were patched into the original game (or added in Gold?) rather than being T2 models. After all they still have the Bafford purple uniform.

Does plain NewDark work with TG? I'd be interested to see how it compares with the other changes made by TFix.

>>4484316
>>4484326
In retrospect I must've been thinking of this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLnDBDUJYmQ

About how difficult is it to pick up and start learning DromEd? I've been thinking of trying out FM making for a while but never got around to it.
I have some basic experience using Hammer and a few 3D modelling tools.

>>4484316
Thief 2 has a bind you can hold down to run while you're moving about. I haven't been able to find this anywhere in Thief Gold, just two different buttons for walking/running.

>>4484460
It's pretty simple/easy if you follow a couple of guides to get started with it, it's just incredibly time consuming compared to modern level design work environments. Stuff like not being able to move your view in the 3D viewport with your mouse and having to use tank controls to do it are just a huge hurdle of tedium you have to overcome.

t. have Unreal Engine 4 level design experience, picked up DromEd fairly recently and have been on and off with messing about with it

>>4484473
Alright, thanks. Will give it a go sometime.

>>4484479
These are a couple of good resources.

This youtube series (which is unfinished and ends abruptly):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFIcXS4qx4E

One of the high profile FM authors' (Nicked) own guides:
https://nickdablin.wordpress.com/2014/01/13/absolute-beginners-guide-to-creating-a-thief-2-mission-part-one/

>>4484282
>>4484180
Well I've finished it.

All the way up until the final area/mansion I found it to be pretty mediocre. There are secrets everywhere to the point where it isn't really satisfying to find them, main routes of progression are janky, every single readable you pick up goes into your inventory when they could just leave them there because they are unimportant as fuck (I prefer to think that readables that are important to the mission should go into the inventory and others should be left behind if it's just flavor). Loot is found in bundles of 10 pieces at once (or in pic related at the end of the mission). The mayor's house's location makes zero fucking sense (this rich man's front door is in a blocked off back alley?) and the whole outdoor portion of the level is just extremely constricted and feels more like a sewer level with a skybox.

The final mansion area was pretty good though, but it just made me wish that BBB had spent time just making a mansion mission and polishing it rather than making this linear city crawl with tons of gated progression you need keys for with the absolute minimum amount of polish (much like Augustine's Revenge & the beginning portion of Nigel's Hidden Treasure). This guy can make missions but he has yet to find what he is truly good at. He needs to either spend more time polishing missions to be believable spaces or just give up and start making tricky dungeon missions that fit his level design style (the 2nd half of Nigel's Hidden Treasure is like this, but it still tries to cram too much into one mission).

>>4475824
I did try Styx today, and I dont really enjoyed it. It has a lot of modern mechanics I consider useless, and the Goblin and the world didnt really grown on me.

We cant come back to Thief and its focus on sound.l Now we just focus on crouching and line of sight it drives me insane. Its not a bad game but I just cant enjoy it.

>>4484326
>>4484426
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySTNGp17ULI
You're addressing a newcomer, so it keep it neutral/formal.
>Q: Can I change the controls? Is there a difference between games regarding controls?
>>4484462
But Thief Gold has the bind for running?

>>4484886
>We cant come back to Thief and its focus on sound.
You can't hear the sound as well if you're playing on a console with TV speakers, after all.
It's really infuriating how little focus is placed on sound propagation even in high profile stealthy games these days. Even the games you'd expect to have good sound propagation, like the new Hitman, just use a very basic room/portal system and don't even correctly simulate propagation through portals, so that you can hear sounds coming through a portal the loudest when you're right in front of it, and it doesn't really matter what direction the sound is coming from in the other room. From what I understand, The Last of Us also does the same thing, and most other games use a similar system.

There is some research in simulating sound propagation more correctly, most of which seems to come from the GAMMA research group in the last decade. They have some cool videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je3Cs_0Jq7U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQt1jtDBNK4
VR seems to have sparked up interest in this research, so I'm pretty sure the code used in those videos ended up in Steam Audio (formerly Impulsonic), which was acquired by Valve and open sourced (!) a few months ago.
https://valvesoftware.github.io/steam-audio/
So perhaps all is not lost.

Just played The Mirror... classic Zontik, enough said.

When I picked up a guide it didn't even help because I was playing on Expert and the only guide for it I could find was on Normal. Turns out for Zontik, Expert roughly translates to Autistic, because on Normal the solutions for some of the problems are much less hidden and easier to come across.

Like even the main progression is dumb shit with illusory walls, I could barely believe it. That's the first time in a Thief FM that I've seen illusory walls that you can just walk through IIRC, maybe I'm forgetting something - I've played a lot of FMs.

It's such a shame that this guy just infects his missions with such dogshit gameplay because his architecture and general level design isn't even that bad, it's a lot more polished than the likes of BBB or many others, like around mid-high tier on the architectural front. Are Russians mentally ill?

>>4485407
I remember picking up and ultimately dropping The Mirror after getting stuck just a few weeks ago.

it's a shame, because it seemed like an extremely ambitious mission, with some genuinely innovative problems and quirks. and like you said, the architecture was pretty good.

Here's one mission that I've never seen recommended: Lingering whispers for t2. Looks great, plays great for the most part and there's lots of variety and twists that keep this rather long mission from getting boring. On the downside, there's a lot of readables (some pretty long, too), the story is pretentious as fuck, ai sometimes get stuck on narrow passageways and some required items are somewhat hard to spot (nowhere near as bad as rocksbourg, though).

>>4485416
Another reccomendation: Mine saga for t2. It's a campaign of four short and rather loosely connected missions. These are really varied both visually and in terms of gameplay (gimmicks done right) and are pretty fun to play despite their small size.

>>4485407
>That's the first time in a Thief FM that I've seen illusory walls that you can just walk through IIRC

varyx obelisk does this too, it's one of the older missions and is pretty frusrtrating to play.

>>4477153
Checked folder structure, the text formatting in goals.str and your Dark Mission Description settings. Problem persists.

>>4477153
Checked folder structure, the text formatting in goals.str and Dark Mission Description settings (20). Problem persists.

I'm playing the first mission of Chalice of souls and I feel dumb as fuck.
Had to look up how to get the sewers key, didn't know you could climb up pipes. I'm pretty sure I missed where the gem for the second objective is, I'm in the sewers and ALSO stuck not knowing where to go.
Any tips for not being such a taffer?

>>4484460
The workflow is fucking bizzare compared to today's tools, one particular quirk which I'm not sure is to do with sound propagation calculation is despite building geometry of your map you need to box out areas of "Air"

>>4485958
Also, holy shit is this mission expansive. Too bad Thieves Guild ruined sewers for me, but the city parts were great

I'm playing Project Hammer 1 - Secret connections and I'm kind of stumped here.
I have a pickaxe and a shovel and a note that mentions some sort of secret passage near the wine cellar. Seems obvious, yet I see no opportunity to combine all these things.

>>4485958
Just keep going, though all of the main objectives except finding the way to the brothel are found in the city.

>>4485825
Apparently creating separate folders to keep things tidy is not a good idea?

>>4486251
Finished, on to the second mission.
Holy shit now this is tough, packed with guards. Took me several times just to sneak past the starting area, the guy in the middle just heard/saw everything... Am I right in assuming you just have to quickly make your way past lit areas into shadows? Snuffing out candles help, but even that doesn't make you safe

>>4482343
A comment about a previous FM we played, A Noble Death.
>>/vr/thread/S4162227#p4210586
>At the start of A Noble Death I can see Ishy tried to stick a note to a wall with a knife. Letter falls to the ground. Maybe he needed a wooden surface. How do you do that?

Now I know why. From Nicks tutorial:
Open the scroll’s properties. You will see that it already has some entries under Physics. Find the entry Physics > Model > Controls and double-click it. You’ll see a button labelled [None] next to Controls Active. Click this and tick Location, then click it again and tick Rotation, then click OK. This tells the game to lock the positioning and angle of the object, whatever happens. You could shoot a fire arrow at the scroll now and it won’t budge an inch.

Next add Engine Features > FrobInfo to the scroll. You’ll see that it has a World Action of Move, and an Inv Action of Script. This means that if you use it in the world, it will Move to the player’s inventory, and if you use it in the Inventory, it will run it’s attached Script. For World Action, untick Move, and tick Script. Now it will run the script when it’s used in the world, rather than moving to the player’s inventory first. For neatness, you can also set Inv Action to [None] by unticking Script.

There’s one more thing we need to do before the scroll will work. The scroll will currently run the StdScroll script when it’s used, because that’s the default script it’s got from it’s archetype. But StdScroll only works from the player’s inventory. To have a readable ingame, it needs to have the same script as the book we created earlier. So add S > Scripts and in Script 0, delete StdScroll and replace it with StdBook. Click OK and close the Properties window.

>>4482860
World of Warcraft, Karazhan or probably some other place there too.

Just downloading Thief Gold and 2. Should I play the game with or without texture filtering? I'm against texture mods as well as they often make the game look like a mismashed collection of unfinished work etc.

>>4487750
Tfix textures are not bad.

You should probably use texture filtering, sadly no filtering makes the shadows look weird.

>>4487759
Okay thanks I'll do some kind of compromise though. The original game was awesome when it first came out, but I can't remember if I had 3dfx back then or did I run it without acceleration.

>>4487716
The second mission is pretty damn hard but is made easier by snuffing candles out and making good use of water arrows and moss arrows.

What textures do the lockpicks use?
Looking at their properties I couldn't figure it out.

What's the deal with the golden robot cherub kid?

>>4487759
TFix itself doesn't change textures, just the extra mods you can select when you install it.

>>4487940
He's Karras' bitchboy.

The zombies in the haunted mine creep me the fuck out

>>4488545
Get used to it famalam.

>>4488084
The implications of that little cherub only made me hate him more back then.

>>4489481
what implications

>>4489514
You forget how servants are made?

>>4489584
The cherub is nothing like the servants, it is completely mechanical and the servants are lowlife and such with spooky masks on.

>>4489653
I dont think so. And the servants are biomachines, even they are mostly lowlives its a monstrous process where they probably self aware of their pain considering their dialogue.

>>4489936
the cherub makes purely mechanical noises, and when you hit it, it makes a "clank" sound. furthermore, it's completely indestructible. there is no reason to believe that they come from human bodies.

meanwhile, servants have human voices, and make a soft, organic "thud" sound when you hit them.
>biomachines
they are people wearing mind-control masks. simple as. the "bio" part far outweights the the "machine" part.

there is NOTHING in the game lore that suggests that cherubs are any similar to the servants.

>>4489950

You have a point. I made that association subconsciously almost, Karras is a fearsome villain and a perfect psychopath because he really aims for something and has the intellect to match.

>>4489950
>cherubs
>s
Isn't the one in the soulforge the same one as in angelwatch?

>>4489979
There's no evidence either way.

So how do you get Dromed to work for Thief Gold.

>>4491381
Get this, follow the instructions for TG
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141708

Is it differ a lot from Dromed for Thief TMA.

>>4491385
How different is that version compared to Dromed for Thief TMA.

>>4491396
As far as I can tell it's basically the same, just different default assets available.

>>4472780
Why Karras speaks like Cartman?
>sherioushly you guise respect my autoritah!

>>4491406
He was bullied because he had a speech impediment and decided to destroy humanity as revenge.

>>4491406
Sounds more like an authoritarian Droopy than Cartman.

Tell me there is virgin garrett, chad garret maymay.

>>4491619
One or two threads back iirc.

>last part of the tutorial
>zipped everything up
>ready to play
>crashes
nice

>>4491619

>>4492217
Ah yes. thank you.

>>4472780
>playing thief for the first time
>on hard because im not sure if expert would have been alright for someone completely new
>mfw trying to find the side objectives in each map
the thieves guild from the gold edition and the first haunted cathedral mission took me forever just because of them

>>4492535
the thieves guild is the only mission that shows its age.


I still really love the first haunted cathedral just for its fucking revolutionary attitude in fucking 1998.
Its a stealth, survival, free roaming map with tons of verticality and secrets and cool zombie scenery which cutscene really sets the mood and mistery.
In fucking 1998.

post fanart

>>4492929

Just played Tales from the Cleft 1: Vandal. Such a strange mission, it started out with so much promise (loved the workshop area and the funny script where the mechanist falls and dies (actually just disappears at the top of the ladder while you're lockpicking and his corpse is found below).

Immediately after this area though the mission just degenerates into some autistic shit and the story and progression through the mission is heavily linear and preset, it doesn't feel very fun to follow it and I would have just preferred a standard-ass mansion looting mission.

From the very beginning with the water ride to the inexplicably locked gate with the fucking door handle hidden underwater on the other side of it that is extremely hard to see, that alone can get you caught up for a moment when it really just doesn't need to be that way. Once you're actually inside the mansion it opens up a bit but you it's got this semi-forced ghosting thing going on where you can blackjack people but you can't be alerted by them and then blackjack them, would be fine if the scripting for it wasn't buggy as shit (it's my complaint with most objectives like this) and results in them being alerted after you have blackjacked them from behind because you clocked up a first alert from lockpicking something, luckily you can turn the security off and this objective gets thrown out the window (doesn't really make sense anyway, though).

>>4493147
And the lockpicking... every container and door is a long ass 9 notch lockpick that you sit in front of for ages. Boring. Then there's the "puzzle" with the frogbeast that just seems straight up poorly implemented (the bugs you pick up don't go into your inventory and aren't a right click use item, and the bowl on the floor is hard to see in the darkness and doesn't highlight, you have to drop the bugs on to it).

The way the elevator lockbox works lacks a lot of vital information, you put the key in and it makes locking and unlocking noises and it switches the tiny button behind you around, but it should have just opened a fucking cabinet with a button for the bottom floor. The scripting at the end with the water filling up the room sequence seemed to be straight up broken (saw people on ttlg complain about it too), I ended up having to just swim through the floor of this room to be able to leave.

The loot goal for Expert on this mission is fucking 99% of the total loot, one of those missions... Some of this loot includes extremely hard to see tiny rings, coins that are totally out of view of the player (blind click pickup) and other secrets. Really I could go on for ages about the flaws with this mission so I'll just halt my words here.

The highlight of the mission was literally seeing pic related and having a little chuckle at it. I'm probably going to play Part 2: Ladytaker at some point, anyone know if it's any better?

I'm working on a level and when I go into game mode the light gem stays at full brightness no matter the lighting conditions. It doesn't happen when I play the main game, though I think I remember that happening a long time ago. Does anyone know how to fix?

>>4493489
Have you loaded convict.osm and gen.osm? Have you created a StartingPoint marker pointing to Garrett?

>>4493494
Yes to all of those, and I tried closing and reloading everything and lighting is up to date. I haven't set up any room brushes, could that have anything to do with it?

>>4493503
Try calculating Pathfinding.

>>4493528
That was it, guess I should've tried all my options first. Thanks anon.

>>4493539
You're welcome senpai. Pathfinding is kind of misleading since the operation does a lot more than that.

>>4493558
One more thing: I've heard that it's a good idea to have room brushes overlap a bit, and I remember a long time ago seeing a tutorial that said to edit some file so that all room brushes you create with shift+ins would be a bit larger than the air brush its surrounding by 0.125 or so, so that the room brushes for touching air brushes would overlap automatically. Do you know if this is an advisable way of doing things and if so, how to do that? I haven't been able to find the tutorial again.

>>4493615
That's in one of the let's tame the dromed beast episodes.

NVDebug is only for Thief 2? What about Thief GOLD?

>>4493615
Yes, this is good practice. Also make sure that your roombrushes aren't too big, because sounds 'travel' from roombrush center to roombrush center. If a sound cannot reach the center of a roombrush, then it'll cut off when you go from one roombrush to the other. I tend not to go beyond 64*64*64 with roombrushes.

WRT the command that lets you have roombrushes slightly overextend, I don't remember what it is. Is that thing mentioned in Dale's tutorial?

"Requested screen mode could not be set"
nice
ingame settings interface looks screwed too
The cam.cfg file in Thief Gold says:
game_screen_size 1366 768

>>4493105
cute
also,
>health on right

>>4491385
I quit

>>4482343
and i dont want to play this game anymore
i have too much trouble with dromed
sry

I just played through Inverted Manse for the first time. I have mixed thoughts about it.

First of all, I really liked the basic idea of having different "routes" depending on difficulty level. It helped flesh out the story, and created a large world that was tied together by the common areas, most remarkably the hubs.

The gameplay felt very solid. It's clear that the level was designed primarily with function in mind (I'll come back to that). The password puzzle (which I never solved) was fairly interesting, especially since it required playing through all modes to get all clues. It's a shame that you lose your notes everytime you replay it. The mission was pretty spooky in some parts. I know it's a cheap cliché, but zombie children never fail to terrify me.

Now a few words about the architecture: it's shit. Maybe it was intended and I'm just not "getting" it, but seriously, not a single building in the mission had an interior that corresponded to the exterior. The facades are just empty props. The windows are not real windows. Instead of actually entering the buildings you see, you enter some tunnel leading into the "real" building. At first I thought you'd be able to enter the buildings in the other modes, but this hope dwindled as I played through the modes. It just bothers me to see a building that looks like an ordinary building, and when you enter it, you end up in some abstract labyrinth. I also suspect that there are quite a bit of empty spaces between the rooms, even in the areas that supposedly are above ground. In spite of not making sense, the architecture still manages to look good.

>>4493765
Despite the outworldish architecture (which might have been intended), the gameplay was pretty solid, and I did enjoy the way the FM managed to create a large world that you were allowed to explore piece by piece through the different difficulties. There's also no bullshitting when it comes to loot quotas and tiny switches. That alone makes this FM superior to most other FMs I've played lately. Everything makes sense from a gameplay point of view. You rarely have to backtrack through the map, and even if you do, most areas are interconnected, which makes them easy and quick to move between.

Overall I'd say it's a very solid FM. It's clearly very ambitious. Despite being a single mission, the different modes give it the character and total playtime of a snaller campaign.

>>4493765
>>4493769
Yeah. Pretty much.

It's also kinda crazy that the mission was released in 2001 and holds up as well as it does. Same goes for Calendra's Legacy among very few others. There has been so much total fucking autistic switch hunting garbage in the 16 years since and yet some of the oldest missions for Thief 2 are the better ones (obviously this is not always the case, there are quite a few good later ones too).

>>4493691
Turns out >>4493630 was right, it was.
In DEFAULT.BND, you can change
edit bind ins+shift "brush_to_room 0"
to
edit bind ins+shift "brush_to_room -.025"
or presumably any other value.

Alright we had some comfy winter maps... but what about some spicy new years eve related maps?

>>4493829
Happy New Year Mr. Lambert.

>>4493835
welp that was fast i know what i gonna do tonight, thanks anon

>>4487738
It's weird, though. Why doing the knife thing and not locking the scroll to the intended location? He had to notice the note regularly falling onto the ground each time the mission started.
Oh well, it's one of the very first FMs after all, maybe he just entered the "I don't know how to do this, I hope they'll get what I tried to do here" mode, common to many first steps, and it worked.
Anyway, it's not time to scold ol' Ishy. >>4493760 don't worry about this. I'm not focused on dromed as you are so I may not understand how important it can be but you know I'm always here. If you ever feel like resuming this to try again or just play some primordial FMs, let me know. Happy new year, man.

>>4494192
I'm just angry. I can't finish Nicks tutorial successfully. The tutorial FM crashed. Dromed 1.37 seems to be full of errors that keep coming. It's not a fun experience so far.
Happy new year, really enjoyed the playthroughs with you so far.
Dark Walker next?

>>4494220
Nigga what are you even doing with Dromed 1 fucking dot fucking 37? Just update your Dromed already, that shit's outdated as hell.

>>4494249
>http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141708
That's the version I end up with.

>>4494220
Yep, I think I'm gonna follow that anon's steps and play a celebrative mission but Dark Walker is next on the line.

>>4494273
You need to get NewDark's Dromed after you install the toolkit. The latest version is 1.25.

>>4494319
4. For Thief Gold, also copy the contents of .\tools\Thief1 Gold Dromed\ to your root Thief Directory
There's more?

>>4494361
Yes, like I said you need to replace the 1.37 outdated Dromed that comes with the toolkit with the 1.25 NewDark Dromed which is up to date and far less prone to crashing.
Get this http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141148 and extract the contents of editors.zip in your Thief Gold root folder.

>>4494367
>1.25 NewDark
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147689
Thief 2?

Happy New Year, taffers.

>>4494467
It works for both TG and T2.

>>4494468
Go away, spooky skeleton.

>>4494468
A haunt wishing me a good time is a pleasant change of pace.

>>4495138
Dromed Final 1.25 MSVC opt playtest.
Graphical errors are absent. Certain actions with the keyboard and mouse are working.
Thanks. Sorry if I was/am such a bore.

>>4494576
Dromed Final 1.25 MSVC opt playtest.
Graphical errors are absent. Certain actions with the keyboard and mouse are working.
Thanks. Sorry if I was/am such a bore.

>>4494468
This year is THE year, taffers. The anniversary.

Casing the Joint is stupid.

When has Garrett ever had to case somewhere before going in and stealing from it. The most he does is buys a half filled in map from some guy.

Masks would not have been any different if he just went and did Masks on its own instead of Casing and then Masks.

>>4495405
How would you make casing work?

>>4495413
Remove it from the game and incorporate the goals of it into Masks itself.

>>4495413
remove it completely

The concept of Casing would have been better if it took place in its own separate location, that you don't revisit, and you were casing the joint for someone else. Like someone paid you to make a map of a mansion.

Sorry, I meant: how would you make the concept of 'casing' work? In what way can the preparation of a burglary be more interactive?
First walk around the building in daylight, allowing you to make notes about points of entry? Just keep it to a briefing video?

>>4495421
There had to be at least one mission that forces people out of their comfort zone, ie. absolutely disallows what the game already heavily advocates against. ie detection. A casing job is a good excuse for forced ghosting, and an unoccupied mansion is a good excuse to have less staff and less security for Normal difficulty players to succeed in ghosting. Casing succeeds in what it was trying to do, which is to have a ghosting mission that isn't too difficult for inexperienced players. It also prepares the player for the difficulty of the final mission where stealth is very important due to the lack of resources to incapacitate the powerful enemies.
However I do think the mission could have been made better with different goals. For example Garrett having to visit the mansion before the exhibit in order to acquire a security code that he couldn't get during the actual job. Or if he didn't know about the secret passage at all and would have to confirm or deny the rumours that the third floor is entirely inaccessible, which would mean that he would need to steal the masks and the cultivator before they are moved into the mansion. It also makes no sense that Garrett steals the secret key to the secret door, and the mechanist engineer chick in charge of it is not in any way suspicious as to why the clock was suddenly fixed by someone else.

>>4495463
That's an interesting idea. Like Viktoria needs Garrett elsewhere while Gervasius's mask show or whatever is going to happen, but Garrett has time to case the place in preparation for the Pagans' own (non-master) thieves to go in later, to make their job easier.

Then Garrett gets sent off to the necromancer's castle. RIP T2G.

How can the preparation of a burglary be more interactive?

thief is not a tactical game

>>4495505
I want a SWAT4 style game set in the Thief universe where you play as the City Watch.

>thief thread on /v/
>people are talking about what sort of environmental hazards can kill NPCs and fail the mission, i.e. drowning/burning etc.
>someone mentions that you can kill people by dropping fucking sandbags on their heads
What the fuck?? Can anybody confirm this? I would never have thought of that shit but knowing LGS's level of detail I can totally see it happening.

the T2 campaign can't really be salvaged by just replacing one or two missions, because only a few missions are decent in the first place.
>Running Interference
>Shipping and Receiving
>Framed
>Eavesdropping
>Blackmail
>Trail of Blood
>Precious Cargo
These are the good missions.
After PC, it all goes steadily downhill until the very end. To have the game end properly, Soulforge needs to be remade from scratch. I'm not against the building stuff part, that was fun. What wasn't fun was running back and forth through the abstract factories.

How to salvage SF:
Keep the entrance area as is: that part is fucking beautiful. Put the factory parts on upper floors or in basements, but try to have them superimposed on the main hall. This will add some much needed verticality. Preferably give the player some freedom of choice on how to travel between the floors, i.e. different lifts, ladders, grates for vine arrows, etc. Make more use of the spider bots. They fit well together with the greenery planted by Viktoria, and we almost never see them in the game anyway. Finally, put the rooftop part directly on top of all this, instead of having a completely different area.

>>4495531
well, you can throw hammers at people

>>4495536
>didn't list the bank mission

What's wrong with it?

>>4495531
I'm not sure about sandbags, but you can kill human npcs by throwing hammers at them.

>>4495541
>>4495545
Shiiiit, I never would have even thought about this. I've got some experimenting to do on my next playthrough.

>>4495542
well, I guess this is largely a matter of subjective taste, but to me, the bank mission embodies the change from a middle ages setting to a 19th century setting. it's the very antithesis of how the city looks in the cutscenes and the concept art.

>>4495531
can you even pick up sandbags in the original missions? I know some FMs (i.e. Inverted Manse) have sandbags you can pick up, but I can't remember seeing any in the original missions.

>>4495578
song of the caverns has some you can pick up

>>4495531
NPCs drowning due to you throwing their unconscious bodies in water is the only way drowning can fail your mission. If they drop down into the water by themselves it doesn't count as you having killed them. It's impossible for a knocked out body to end up in water without the player's direct input unless you somehow knock out someone who has somehow already ended up in water.

>>4495536
Life of the Party & First City Bank & Trust are pretty good gameplay-wise (stylistic issues with Bank aside), don't need to be a hipster about it.

>>4495718
Wow, that's pig disgusting that T1 is that low.

>>4495734
What are the advantages of modding for T1 over 2?

>>4495734
It doesn't make that much of a difference. For instance Unexpected Detour and Precarious Business were two decidedly T1-style missions for T2 this year. If a good number of people who say that they're going to enter the contest actually do, then the numbers should just about flip for this year.

When I portalize, no textures appear in the upper left screen. Not even jorge.

When I portalize, no textures appear in the upper left screen. Not even jorge.

>>4495786
Are you in Solid World or Solid World+Selection? What does MONOLOG say?

>>4495820
Well, at least Portalization works. I was thinking you didn't have the .cmds required to do operations like that.
Anyway, right click on the 3D view and select Solid World+Selection.

I'm such a goddamn idiot.
Three guesses what my FM is going to be about.

>when you boot up thief gold for the first time in forever and get briefly lost in fucking bafford's manor
that's something i haven't felt in a long time.

>>4495825
flipping tiny switches in pitch black rooms and finding 99% of all loot

>>4495825
Tiled floors only no moss arrows final destination and you have to cheese the entire level by nudging across the floor at a snails pace so not to make any sound.

>>4495825
Linear scripted non-stealth walking sim mission about the struggle of learning DromEd.

>>4495909
>>4495918
>>4495921
A nobleman called Ramirez a retard.
Ramirez put a price on it's head.
You could use the money.

>>4495935
but garrett is thief, not a murderer

So you create a different character.
One who didn't have the privilege of being trained by The Keepers.

>>4495935
>>4495943
I feel like there's potential in assassination missions. I never use lethal equipment usually so it could be fun, especially if the target was on a patrol and you had to take them out without anyone seeing. Sort of like Kidnap but hopefully good.

>>4495935
>ramirez offering garrett a reward after trying to have him murdered and then getting robbed blind by him
Unless you're like planning to make a non-garrett mission. I think the idea of an assassination mission could be pretty cool.

>>4495935
retard

>>4492217
Holy shit! That's the first one of those memes that actually made me chuckle.
All it needs are something about the inferiority of THI4F-rope arrows.

>he doesnt murder every disgusting woodsie subman

>>4496413
I will never kill an apebeast. they're too cute.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbCa-tcarjo

>>4492217
Why do so many people depict Chad as objectively superior even though the original meme is clearly a mockery of him? In other words when nuGarrett is depicted as the Virgin, he has redeemable qualities and when Garrett is depicted as the Chad, he's the clueless troglodyte. To me it's obvious that Garrett is the Virgin and nuGarrett is the Chad. For example:

Virgin Garrett:
-Hated by all of his peers
-Has to jump over obstacles and mind where he steps like a pleb. Doesn't even have magically silent swooping boots.
-Collects and recycles used rope arrows like a poorfag.
-Needs to stay hidden like a scared little bitch because his enemies don't forget about his existence 10 seconds after chasing him.
-Steals gold, jewelery and other precious items. Can't even maintain a lifestyle stealing desk bells and junkies' syringes unlike pro-feshunals.

Chad nuG4rrett
-Jumping is for amateurs. Exercises superior crab-sliding instead.
-Wants you to play as a thief, but doesn't force you to play as a thief
-Only needs one braincell for every action. Climbing, peeking and picking up things all use the same muscle response.
-Needs no shitty "real world" excuses for robbing people. It's just "who he is". Makes a private little museum of the things he's stolen.
-Doesn't need to go back. Points of no return are not a problem.
-Gets epic XP from headshots. Has badass Focus™ implemented into the lore instead of being an option. Choices are for pussies.

>>4496413
>first game tries to frame the hammerites as the antagonist before throwing a curveball and having it be the pagans, showing the hammers were right all along
>second game where its the hammer's turn to be the bad guys has only a heretical offshoot be the villains
>tfw the hammerites did nothing wrong

>>4495718
why so many in 2006?

>>4481174
So with all those things unchecked, what, if anything, changes in the final visual result between original vanilla versions of the games?

>>4496887
probably a lot of contests

>>4496812
Good Myth has this kind of property.

It writes correctly through wicked lines.

>>4497497
>>4496812
>game's story is a proper archetypical tale of a reluctant selfish hero getting dragged into the eternal conflict of light vs dark and ultimately saving the day, done very well and presented in a unique manner
>meanwhile the vast majority of vidya stories are utter dreck and/or post-modern feces

Is there anything that Thief doesn't do right? Why was LGS so perfect and ahead of its time?

>>4496804
Meme creator here.
I thought about doing that setup but I was afraid that the joke would go over everybody's heads and the meme would then be overused by trolls to make fun of how dated the old games were and how they're only liked by virtue of nostalgia, which happens enough as is.
So I guess I ironically fell into the same trappings that SE and Eidos did in severely underestimating my audience. Go figure.

>>4497595
>postmodern feces
the whole idea of a reluctant, self serving hero is postmodern in itself, though. that's why it's so common in 80's hollywood movies.

>>4497764
the reluctant hero is literally a biblical trope
moses is an example

>>4497834
I can't remember moses calling his followers "crazy fanatics", only helping them so he can pay his rents, and then utlimately go back to being a sleazy bum who lives life one day at a time.

there is no good vs evil narrative in thief. garrett changes sides both left and right. and in the end it hardly matters. the trickster's return wouldn't have killed of neither humanity nor civilised life entirely, only set the development back a few hundred years. the world in thief is already dystopian, and it's clear that garrett doesn't pursue salvation for mankind in this dystopia. instead, he fights for his own salvation. even fighting the mechanists was ultimately to save his own life, as they were a threat to all organic life.

the recurrent theme is fighting to save yourself in a rotten world which can't be saved by a "grand plan" like in judeo-christian faith. this narrative is inherently postmodern.

I'm fiddling around in Dromed and I have a couple of questions.
1. Thief Deadly Shadows had this lock you could practice lockpicking with. Could I do something similar with a Lockbox in Thief Gold?
2. I have this rosary. Whenever I go in-game, I can hear the rosary fall on the table. Is it normal?
Also, I don't want the Player to interact with it at all.
Properties --> Engine Features
World Action: Ignore
Inv Action: Ignore
Tool Action: [None]
Correct?
3. What is happening to my scroll?

>>4497897
I wasn't the person you originally responded to, I was just stating that the trope of the reluctant hero is not a post modern trope. Also, Garret is not completely self-serving, he refuses to take lives if it may be beneficial to him, such as when hes stealing, and he never steals from the needy.

this fm is cute as fuck. I'm not nearly done with it yet, though.

>>4497923
I guess it could be possible to do what you're asking with the lock, but I have no idea how to do that.
The scroll is sinking into the table. Go to your scroll's properties -> Controls and select Location and Rotation. Do the same thing to the rosary.
There's a quicker method to make it impossible to interact with, select Metaprops -> FrobInert.

>>4498224
When I pick it up and drop it, it sinks.
Maybe it's better not to pick up the scroll at all.
I can figure that part out for myself.

And if I want a locked door that's impossible to interact with:
Engine Features --> Locked
Metaproperties --> FrobIner

http://web.archive.org/web/20071030160251/http://www.thief-thecircle.com/dromed/displaysubject.asp?titleID=85&title=LockPicks&sub=Objects
>I'm not sure what "Reset on fail" does.

>>4498301
Slightly decrease the vertical value of the table's bounding box, in Physics -> Dimensions, until the scroll stops sinking. It's the third value.

Reset on fail makes the lockbox return to its previous state if you successfully pick it with the wrong lock. King's Story did that with the front door to the castle.

>>4497764
Its only as modern as film noir and anti hero.

There is nothing post modernish about Garrett.

> tfw Bonehoard unironically my favorite
I just like the Indiana Jones levels

>>4499336
only problem is that the zombies are too easy to avoid. that's why RTC is my favourite undead mission. there you have a much stronger incentive to stealth.

>>4499339
【spoiler】I only just reached Opera. Thief finally clicked for me this year and better than 2. Yet to see the famous RTC 【/spoiler】

>>4499343
I regret ever phoneposting

>>4499336
>>4499343
Only true patricians like the spooky tomb raiding levels so you're on the right track at least. You'll probably love RTTC, that shit spooked me so hard on my first playthrough.

>>4499504
What if I even liked exploring the Lost City?

>>4499650
If you have decent spatial awareness it's not any less enjoyable to explore than anything else.

>>4497923
The lock is probable doable with some kind of system involving linking the switch to a controldevice relay and then linking from the relay back to the lock, something like that. Might need an inverter in there somewhere

>>4499757
Meant to say lock, not switch

Human > Hammer > Undead >> Lost City > Beasts >>> Mechanist

>The perfect girl doesn't exis-

I officially have 100 hours in Thief Gold today.
>first bought the game in 2013
>still have troglodytes who don't even play video games trying to tell me that the only reason people like thief is because of nostalgia
lol

>>4500467
>steam says I have 50 hours in TG and 150 in T2
>haven't touched my steam copies in several years
I wish I could see my total, but at the same time I'm glad I can't.

>>4500452
>pagan spy
>perfect

>>4500452
>no strong city watch grill to keep the mangy taffers away from you at night
why live

>>4494220
Not much to say about Darkwalker, unless I'm forgetting something. It's a formula we've already seen, a mission more linear than what it seems where each room is a little challenge, so it gives the impression of facing a classic kind of level, with its enemies and goal, instead of exploring a building. This time I'm sure that the composition of the manor doesn't make sense, with the lord's bedroom right next to the entrance and in general a chaotic interior architecture.
The loot requirement seemed too high at first, but since most rooms are nothing but a way to proceed towards the Horn, it's easy to find the single piece of loot hidden in most rooms, since it's everything said room has to give. And, like it already happened with the Docks, the "caveau" room solved half of the problem. Another important room right in front of the entrance.
Small mission, small problems. I've found the switch disposition confusing at first, but the mission's dimension minimized the problem: I couldn't get lost even if I tried. Same goes for the shadows: the pitch black areas are a pain to get through, but they're just short hallways or the corners of a room. On purpose or not, the title of the FM sure makes sense.
Unrelated note, I was fighting in the atrium while the two guards outside the building just tried with all their strenght and spiritual energy to get past the gate to get to me by just running against it. And of course they succeeded.

I'm finally starting to hate spiders.

>get briefly seen by a guard, he runs over to investigate
>run into the other room and crouch down in a corner shadow to hide
>he's onto me and starts investigating the corner
>fire a noisemaker arrow across the room to distract him
>as he's walking over to the noise, run up and blackjack him from behind
>he doesn't go down
>W A H T
>shouts "SHIT! TRY STABBING ME IN THE BACK, WILL YOU?" and turns around to fight me
what the fuck? i knew that if guards are spooked enough they'd whip around when you tried to sneak up on them, but i wasn't aware that they could trigger invulnerability to backstabs/blackjacks.
what's even stranger is that it's possible to actually knock out guards even when they're in their paranoid "turn around when you get close" phase. anybody know what causes this? it probably has to do with performing a search routine.

>>4500812
The Thief AI is surprisingly poorly documented considering the game has such a devoted fanbase. I'm sure that's largely due to no (public) source code, but you'd still think some autist would do a million tests and write a wiki page about it. There are tons of forum threads about how to do something as an FM maker, there's very little about how the engine works,

>>4500812
It's based on whether they're in shadow or not. You can knock out even fully alerted guards that are chasing you if you run them in a circle hit them in the back of the head while in full shadow.

I've finally decided to sit down and really play through the first two Thief games (on hard). I remember playing the first two and a half missions of Thief Gold and getting frustrated with the amount of zombie/mutant things and this one really labyrinthine platforming segment in some weird cave. But anyway, I just finished the first mission and it was a blast. I got sloppy during my exit and ended up killing two guards on the way out but infiltrating the manor was some of the most fun I've had in a stealth game. Too bad I'm in the second mission and already facing the undead.

Question: does anyone have a Thief 2 file with the TFix bindings or can I copy it into my T2 folder from my TG folder?

http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148570&p=2381246&viewfull=1#post2381246

And here's the first FM for 2018. Looks like a promising stock resource Thief: Gold mission.

>>4499757
Err, alright!

And the One they called Garrett did come.

A Mender was he, and Trickery and Stealth were his weapons.

Then Karras, the Brave, did SEIZE him! And then smote him right down, with the Venom of Truth, and the Mace of the Righteous.

PRAISE Karras!

>>4500467
>>4500485
I've played 100s of hours with FMs in both games at this point but steam doesn't track any of that shit even though I use the steam versions with fmsel.

>>4501170
Oh shit nigga, been looking forward to this one. It's going to be a good year for TG.

>>4500467
congrats, man. Beat the game on expert? Tried II?

>>4500485
>>4500467
Can you use Tfix and play fan missions on Steam copies without problems, and the game still registering?

>>4500467
Check 'em

>>4501871
Now show us your Deadly Shadows playtime.

I don't use steam, so I have no idea about playtime. but if had to make a guess, I'd say that I've spent around 15% of my total playtime on T1, and the remainder on T2. the difference is that the 15% on T1 is almost exclusively replays of the original game, while most of the T2 time is playing fan missions.

>>4501874
lyl

>>4501874
Less than an hour. I got through the tutorial and realized I'd rather be playing the originals.

>>4501874
I'm fairly certain that most of my playtime was trying to get around problems caused by the game's awful optimization and reloading lengthy sections of gameplay because i fell into the hovering glitch. I still enjoyed what there was and got a nice full playthrough out of it, I hesitate to replay it though.

>>4501871
jeez nigga
But I can see it happening

>>4501892
lul

>>4501892
You played T2 more than TG? Outragous.

whenever i alt tab thief 2, my colors go haywire on my monitor
I'm using a toaster with an integrated gpu, and ive installed tafferpatcher

Is it true that Thief 1 eventually devolves into really combat-heavy levels with lots of zombies and other supernatural stuff? I'm on the second mission and I ignored the zombies. They weren't even hard to run by.

>>4503251
No. The only mandatory combat happens on Expert only in one specific mission, and can be carried out 100% stealthily, assassin style.

>>4503251
Please stop listening to Thief 2 fanboys

what do you think about darkmod? is it good?

Where the hell do you guys get your ideas for architecture in Dromed? How do you make it look like an actual mansion/city streets?

I don't know if the hidden switches/high loot combo of death is worse in really big missions or small ones. Logic says the frustrating experience that the former can be, but nothing makes me feel stupid like obsessively checking the same rooms, nooks and crannies inside the same building knowing that, if there's something to find, it's in a place where I would check only out of desperation.
Mister Lambert provides a good example. There are a couple of golden plates hidden by the donuts placed on them. I didn't check carefully but I think it's impossible or really hard to notice them without taking the donuts first. Having food served on dishes isn't illogical or unexpected, and it's also a nice touch for a thief that wants to steal everything in sight, finding gold because you just grabbed some donuts. Having to forcefully enter that mindset never feels good though (especially since in this mission every piece of loot counts). When the challenge posed by the loot goes beyond the main objective, the nature of the mission feels distorted, the task that brought me there in the first place becomes secondary.
It's a shame, because the mission is pretty neat, atmosphere and gameplay wise. A mystery inside a mystery, a crime inside a crime, you do your job while also witnessing the unfolding of a tragedy. The idea of being just a passing shadow in the midst of great (or small) events is one of my favorite parts of the series.

>>4503315
>not kiting around almost all of the monsters in the mission to the area near the cloister gate and blowing them all to kingdom come with the Sunburst device

>>4503609
Good luck kiting haunts that run faster than you

>>4503946
When you've played the same game for 20 years you'll have noticed that they'll still have to stop in order to swing their swords.

What's the best fan mission manager/launcher?

>>4504172
I use fmsel, the one that comes with tfix/tafferpatcher. I never had a problem with it.

>>4503569
Corners, rims, edges, beams, windowsills, roof overhangs, doorframes, windowframes.

Anything that adds a little detail at first can go a long way when you look at it as a whole.

>>4503569
I'm not that great with city streets but if I'm designing a building, I typically think of what are some necessities the place would have, how the floors would be structured/laid out logically for easy access to everything, then think of what would be some fun ways to navigate the level.
I.E. what are you gonna see in a mansion? Gotta have servant quarters and a guard's barracks, but if you're a big dick nobleman who's inviting company over you want to keep that shit out of the way. Structure those off into some side-rooms or in the basement or something. How are you going to want to lead your guests through the manor? Do you need guest rooms? Just think of all the little shit you'd need to consider if you were actually building a fancy house for yourself and then wanted to fortify it off from thieving faggots.

>>4504520
This is also really good advice. It's easy enough to graph out a building, but it's all the little details you add afterwards that really bring it to life.

>>4500845
If you get a hold of the incomplete source code that was uploaded on the internet a while ago you'll find the AI code as well. It's in scripts/src/AI.SCR.
It's written in a very macro-heavy version of C++, but it's pretty readable and full of comments.

>>4503569
Open up other missions (both OMs and FMs) to see how they did it. Right now I'm working on some city streets and my first instinct was to make a big air brush and use solid ones to make the buildings, with the streets being the space in between, but after looking in some FMs with city sections that I liked, I tried carving out the streets with "stacks" of air brushes so that the buildings are the leftover solid space and it ended up looking a lot more natural and makes it easier to texture different levels of buildings differently, and you can still fill in more details with solid brushes. I'm going for a super cramped and claustrophobic style so it probably wouldn't work as well for a big expansive cityscape, and there are probably downsides I haven't run into yet.

>>4504798
The biggest downsides to that technique is cells. You'll reach the limit much faster doing that in a big map versus a big air brush and tons of solids.

>>4504876
That's what I figured. It also seems more time consuming. Is there a way to check cell count? monolog shows a lot of different cell numbers and I'm not sure which really count.

>>4504892
It's the one under csgmerge.

For the Steam version of Thief Gold, do I have to install GoldToDark before TFix? I get 14 checksum errors trying to install GTD on my TFixed install.

>>4506498
After trying this myself, which I probably should have done before asking, yes, you do need to install GTD before TFix.

>>4506498
Can you explain why one would prefer D to G?

>>4506617
not him, but the changes to the original campaign were pretty controversial.

Any FM editors here? What the fuck are these errors that say things like:

>Something on Player(1) (vec somebignumberhere) not in room!


I have a house, all floors are working normally. When I get into a window into the attic (two wedges connected into a "tent" and room brushed) the game turns slow and Garrett can't jump and all those messages show up. What gives?

Is it me or does it seem like more FMs these days are starting using the Dark Project aesthetic more than the Metal Age (or original pseudo-Victorian settings)?

>>4506498
Try this
>install GoldToDark
>backup GTD maps
>install TFix
>overwrite the maps with the backups
I find TFix adds Gold changes to TDP (fire shadows, Little Big World, Bonehoard texture changes, though The Lost City and Undercover still have 2 talismans)

>>4501170
>large empty underground compound with something extremely evil at its bottom that it's not even the mission's main objective
Where's my sweatinggarrett.jpg

>>4507014
Yeah, turns out I may need to do that since I'm on Mission 3 and the fire guy is still there.

>>4507014
>>4507798
Update: After doing the backup trick it seems like the Gold modifications to vanilla missions are still in the game. I'll try downloading a Dark Project ISO and seeing if the same thing happens.

>>4487742
>>4483884
majora's mask you downies

>>4508001
My last console was a Saturn.

>>4472780
is this game excellent?

>>4508246
Yes.

>mfw zombies can open doors
They're not even fast enough to be threatening and it still spooked me.

>>4501170
Very, very good mission for a first shot from this author. Simple premise, vast area to cover, the level is constructed out of these sort of mini-immersive sim areas with multiple routes through and towards your objective, but is ultimately linear with some shortcuts you can open if you want to backtrack to find some loot in another area. In that sense it's a bit like a BBB mission but the architecture is crafted with much more care and expertise (despite BBB having many missions under his belt and this author having none) along with the level design being a lot less mazelike in general.

There's a bunch of secrets but the Expert loot goal isn't outrageous at all and is easily beatable by just progressing through the mission (perhaps too easy), but this means that the autistic switch hunting is kept completely clear of the main gameplay of the mission and is only there for some secrets with a bit of loot inside.

The architecture and the style of the city level he's made is very reminiscent of some of Melan's missions, not quite Skacky style but still very good. Loved the Keeper Compound w/ the Book of Ash and all the other areas on the way to the main objective. Exploration is rewarding and there's no puzzle trickery to overcome, the exploration and construction of an alternate route to the goal is the puzzle.

>>4508621
I liked it overall but found the sewers extremely dull and the manor itself had way too much marble which made sneaking a bit of a chore.

>>4508579
I just had a zombie in the Haunted Cathedral mission walk out of a building through a closed door.

>>4500534
The front gate reminded me of Lord Bafford's Manor. Very obvious window you had to climb through. Loot is stacked in certain places, again. Big rocks! The guards are able to get inside the building when the gate is closed, but not the other way round?

The picture is is a cellar. It's a hideout of a thief. Should I mask it more? With brushes or a a transformer? Should the window be smaller?

No, the question is: How do I mask the window in such a way the Player can look at what happens at the street but still feel 'safe'. You don't get to walk on the street. You're stuck in a small room.

>playing that new first-of-2018 FM
>get into the manor, using the dumbwaiter to move between floors
>stop off on the first floor and hear footsteps, a servant comes into the room and stands in front of me
>jump out, smack him in the head with blackjack and pull his body inside
>mfw
just imagine being a servant and working after hours at this nobleman's place, you hear the dumbwaiter sound so you go to bring up whatever's inside
then when you get there a fucking shadow scrambles out like a spider and drags you inside
this is the last thing you remember before waking up in a haze the next morning stuffed into the kitchen fireplace.

>>4509989
I always try to hide knocked out guards and servants in the most considerate way I can, with beds being the best choice of course. Not that useful but conscience plays a big role here.

>>4508001

it's ocarina of time actually, forest temple

>>4483884
>>4487742
They're both having you on, it's a new game.

>>4510534
This game legit looks great. Quake 1 style gameplay done right with constant nods to 90s games.

>>4510772
And it plays just as great. I preordered it to try the first 2 episodes and they were fantastic.

Just played Balboa's 'When Angels Refuse To Die'.

Meh. The scripted cutscenes and shit look pretty and the starting setpiece with Garrett being a mechanist slave is pretty cool, but other than that it's just an autism pixel hunt.

The whole "flare sets gunpowder trail alight" in the beginning area thing makes sense I guess but I actually just didn't notice the gunpowder scattered on the dark/monochrome floor, despite the barrels being there. The switch in the viewing room for the secret (mandatory) doorway out is tiny and hidden. The switch for the secret room (the room itself is mentioned in the diary) is impossible to see in the eye of a knocked over statue. The final room with mecha Karras has these two boxes with wires keeping them shut. The wires are literally almost impossible to see and you would think the boxes are just random props. You need the wires and the red rust gas container to finish the mission here.

Bonus: Once you're at the end of the mission it's not possible to backtrack and get loot at all (if you need it, the loot total is only 750 on Expert and that is easily attainable, but in the event someone didnt' get it they would have to restart the entire thing).

>>4510534
>>4510772
>>4510881
Yeah, it's pretty good. I was playing some of Episode 2 today and I got a lot of Half-Life/Quake 1/System Shock 2 vibes out of it. That particular level in the screenshot is meant to kind of fuck with your head like The Sword in T1, so it fits entirely there, and the boss of the level is basically a Cyborg Midwife from SS2. The art style holds up really well and there is a ton of customization to it, you can make it look really gritty and cool like T1/Quake 1 with texture filtering off.