/vr/ - Retro Games

>>4463136
They worked good. It was pretty easy to move around without camera controls.
I liked it better than when the view changes and suddenly you are pressing in the opposite direction and your character starts running the opposite way.

I only found out people had a problem with them when I wet online. It was weird to see so many people make such a big deal about them (oddly enough they didn't seem to mind them in RE4)
never actually made a big deal over controls in my video games, I just got used to them
with that said, tank controls make more sense to me in a game with fixed camera angles than 2d controls

>>4463173
Ps2 gen fanboys complained about them. Re4 was easier to control with the camera behind your shoulder.

>>4463136
I loved them. It's basically fps controls but with the camera at cinematic angles. Once you get used to them it's the smoothest way to precisely move your character through several camera angle changes, which is important when you realize that running around the enemies is a hell of a lot easier than fighting them all.
RE4 fucked that all up with making it over-the-shoulder and adding the Castlevania shopkeeper following you around to sell you ammo because you have to kill everything. It's pretty much exactly the opposite of what made me love RE2.

>>4463136
it's a good way to feel immersed in a game where you play as a regular guy shit scared by the situation walking trough a fucked up place he doesn't know, probably abandoned, with all kind of shit lying on the ground.
And is a shitty control option in literally every other context

my only complaint about tank controls, and this stems from all the way back to Alone in the Dark 2, is that aiming your gun can be so fucking retarded sometimes

The idiots who cannot grasp tank controls don't even understand the game design decision to put them in and honestly think they are a archaic mistake by the devs lol.

When REmaster got a PC/PS4 release a few years ago it was one of the top games on twitch for a few weeks so it was interesting to see new gamers play the game. Most of them immediately switched to "modern controls" and were constantly running into walls/zombies and then screaming about the "stupid camera".

>>4463315
100% wrong

It's the only correct control option in 3D games with fixed camera angles. In the case of survival horror games, removing tank controls would practically remove most of the game.

Traversing screens and rooms should be thought of as a puzzle. It's not just movement between shooting sequences. You are very dumb

>>4463136
I like the precision they give you. In games where they are done right it's my preferred control scheme for 3D movement.

I was totally fine with them in Resident Evil until Code Veronica. I think they fucked up there by combining more 3D camera movements with the tank controls. With set camera angles it was totally fine.

I've been playing Kuon lately because of the FROM thread rumors and it defaults to absolute controls but it can be switched to tank controls. I must say that tank controls add something to the horror and not just "it's harder so it's scarier". They both feel fine to me as I've logged a million hours with both. Tank controls force you to visualize yourself as that character. Their left and right are your left and right. When an enemy pops up behind you, your thought is "there's an enemy behind me" but with absolute controls your thought is "there's an enemy in the lower right corner of the screen". They add another layer of disconnect and for me at least definitely make the experience less scary.

Like them or not, tank controls worked for those games, and they were part of forcing the player to get used to the environments they were in and know them like the back of your hand. This was KEY in the early resident evil games, where by endgame you could navigate the map crazy swiftly, knowing just where to turn, which areas to avoid, etc. and make your way around the map barely thinking about it because you know these areas.

They were not really that bad, once you got used to them you could stop being a crybaby and wishing you could step sideways.
Tank controls kept these games and buttons to learn simple. In bad games they were cancer, no denying that, but they were nowhere near as bad as they were made out to be.

Fixed camera angles with camera based controls are however, the stupidest thing imaginable and trying to "remove" the tank controls from the early RE games is a recipe for disaster, no question. You are just ASKING for a situation where you hold the stick in one direction, only to move back and forth across two camera angles like this Spoony bit: https://youtu.be/upCCGqSUPaI?t=14m24s
and THEN you die unfairly. This is not the game's fault, this is the fault of people who don't really know what is best for a game and demand shit like this because they played five minutes of a game and complained.
Honestly, shit like this is why Resident Evil: Revelations was barely decent instead of the good game it aught to have been. People who want action complained so half the game is a downscaled RE4 with initially more brutal resources, and then the other half is CHRIIIIS REDFIELD shooting shit with near infinite ammo with his sidekick who's vagina could pop out at any time.
Y'know, people do romanticize the early RE games too much, especially people who have not played them, but there were great parts to those games, and they were great games. Can we stop ignoring WHY they were great and which parts were a necessary pain for the experience to work?

>>4463463
I like two controls for horror games where you get direct control: Restrictive controls that make sense for games like the one you mentioned, work really well when they work. Devs can design solid scares out of that and good ones have done this for decades.

and for first person games, more free control and an actual reason for why I can't fight back. Amnesia's plywood furniture was a cop-out. The grunts look like a slight breeze could unravel their stitching. Penumbra's dogs were a bad example since you could kill them, but I like getting the option to fight and it not working a lot more than never getting the option for no real reason.
It's actually scarier and more immersive if you get a game like Darkwood where you have a tightly crafted experience that still lets you get creative and exploit the scary ass enemies from time to time.

>>4463285
Except, and here's the crucial thing,
>shopkeeper following you around to sell you ammo
You have not played the game in forever, but he doesn't actually sell you ammo, just guns and maybe herbs. The only way to get ammo from him was upgrading weapon magazine capacity which would give you a full mag of ammo.
RE4 still knew how to make the best of its restrictive controls even if it was more survival action, in certain points you did have to manage your rounds and watch what you used. Doctor Salvador with his chainsaw was a perfect flip of its use of controls because fight as you might, once he got close, that chainsaw turned those controls turned from an offensive push but a run for your life. Even once the game jumps the rails and throws three of him at you at once, female versions of him, or has him chain two saws together on fire, he is still the slowly walking equivalent of dread on the battlefield.
Regardless of what it drew shittier designers to later on, RE4 knew how to use its mechanics and perspective to still give scares and unsettle.
Yes it turned the series more toward the shooter method of dealing with enemies and resources, and yes the subtle dynamic difficulty probably threw off some pros who were expecting the same static difficulty and thought the game was "too easy" vid here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFv6KAdQ5SE
but that did make it a more accessible game anyone could play and plausibly beat, which is what the RE games feel like they were made for with their simplistic controls.
RE4 was a damn good game, regardless of what it did to the franchise, it still has that focus on resource management and atmosphere, as well as knowing maps.

>>4463517
yeah but nonetheless its still too easy

the game should have forced you to not be able to fight every enemy, forcing you to run into areas that don't have cover, navigate environments as you are being chased, etc

the mechanics support the things I jusy described but in the end you can just shoot every enemy to death, even in professional. and thats the biggest problem

>>4463547
Because it is not a game about the traditional resident evil, "do I use resources or try to avoid" sense, and that's kind of obvious.

It's not an early resident evil, a style of survival horror which has sadly died, it's a survival horror game with the structure of a shooter. This isn't really an issue of "is it good or bad" it's arguing an orange isn't an apple.
The real problem is what it did to the franchise, but that is largely because that with less talented designers, RE games with these mechanics become basically a Third Person dungeon crawler with set pieces rather than a game about managing resources.

>>4463619
Now it's a fps

>>4463173
It was never a thing, I never even heard of the word "tank controls" until years later on the internet. The concept wasn't part of the public conscious as far as I was aware, much less it being a problem. Back in the day I remember being impressed with Tomb Raider's control scheme, there was a lot of precision to the system which made getting through the levels one giant puzzle, later when I played legacy of kain I didn't like it specifically because you could just anywhere with the touch of a button, later I learned to like the game but the controls felt like overly simplistic, removing a layer of depth. I never knew of the tomb Raider control scheme as "tank controls" though and certainly never heard anyone at school complaining "how can you even stand to move her around?". People were in love with these games.

>>4463547
Play the game on hard then.

I actually LOVE the tank controls more than any other playstyle.

RE games are top of my favorites and the tank controls >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RE4/FPS controls anytime for me.

The fixed camera was also great for creating an "unaware of the hidden" atmosphere which makes horror games more fun.

PS2 ruined that with and the controls weren't that good (RE Outbreak). Good thing they fixed it with the gamecube.

>>4463136
Tank controls are necessary for games with fixed camera angles because normal controls fuck everything about during transition. Anyone who played Devil May Cry knows what I'm talking about.

People who use camera centrics controls in the N64 version of RE2 and in the remaster versions of REmake and 0 have no grasp on game design.

These control schemes are a cheat. It's like you re-released Super Mario Bros 3 and put double jump in it because somehow double jump is a preferred standard these days.

Camera centrics controls in RE2/REmake/0 allow you to do things you're NOT supposed to be able to do, like instantly turning in any direction to avoid enemies. If the games were designed with those controls in the first place, then enemies would have different movement patterns, it all goes together.

Here is an example: how easy it is to bait zombies in REmake, effortlessly and with no danger, compared to baiting the intended ways. Spoiler: once you bait a zombie you can run past it with no danger.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl1yrt4Scec

>>4464414
>that 1 frame turn
Good lord.

>>4463136
>Did you like them? What do you think about Re2 n64 and re1 and re0 had having other options?
I'm used to the tank controls. I use the joystic control if I can.
>Did the 180 turn in re3 work for you?
Yeah, it's better than running in the same spot to turn.
>>4464414
>have no grasp on game design.
It's funny you say that and then have no clue the games are rebalanced for the new control scheme.

>>4463136
only literal retards have problems with tank controls

>>4464474
>It's funny you say that and then have no clue the games are rebalanced for the new control scheme.

Yeah no, RE2, REmake and 0 weren't rebalanced.

>>4464474
No.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bg6iWmfumWQ

>>4464507
>>4464563
Rebalanced doesn't mean exacly the same.
https://youtu.be/UB8Sc3YTFhs?t=9m1s

>>4464690
The game wasn't rebalanced to fit the new controls. It's easier with the new controls. There's many vids proving it's not rebalanced, as in one vid crimson heads being defeated in few secs.

Those new controls would work better if the zombies was speed up and more smarter like re4 ganados or even re 3 zombies. It's game breaking in some ways to use these new controls.

Tight hallways demand tank controls. The old zombies are more scary with them, now they're so easy to go around with the new controls.

>>4464739
>The game wasn't rebalanced to fit the new controls. It's easier with the new controls.
You didn't watch the video I posted.

>>4463136
>Did you like them?
Not really, I just tolerated them.

>>4464754
The video is bs. Did you play it my v faggot?

But is it balanced for lean?

>>4463136
Loved em. Backing up the other anons ITT who say they were perfect for the fixed camera games that had them.

I wish there were more games like that. RE, PE, DC.

>>4463136
Tank controls on dpad with fixed cameras have always been one of my favourite control schemes. Easy to use and the character goes where you want them to go

>>4465231
play Countdown Vampires

>>4463315
>it's a good way to feel immersed in a game where you play as a regular guy shit scared by the situation walking trough a fucked up place he doesn't know, probably abandoned, with all kind of shit lying on the ground.
Agreed

>And is a shitty control option in literally every other context
Nah you are wrong here. God Hand proved you can even do tank controls in a 3D brawler game and it works well.

>>4463136
I was excited to have such an option at the time, to me it fit like a glove to the gameplay. Can say that I have spedrun it and mastered it just the same as 1 and 2.

>>4463692
I played the tomb raider games when they came out and going back to them was a bitch. I slowly got used to them again, though.

>>4464760
>Calling bullshit the video because it let you without arguments is dumb.
>I'm not yours.
>Never been to /v/.
>I'm not a faggot.
>Yes, I played the game and changing the controls is optional and is not a big deal.

>>4463889
He said even on Professional which is a 2 hit KO difficulty and enemy bullet sponges.

Did someone say tank controls?

>>4463173
I got used to them on Desert Strike so I've never understood the fuss either.

>>4463652