/vr/ - Retro Games

>>4436963
Thief on an IPS monitor is suffering.

>>4437114
OM: Song of the Caverns
FM: Disorientation

Just finished the Sturmdrang Peak campaign, overall it was very good with a really high standard of quality to it. A lot of gameplay variety throughout the campaign ranging from an undercover-type "don't get seen stealing or going somewhere you shouldn't" mission all the way through normal human guard missions and finally puzzles, elementals, spiders and spooky haunts. Never really got boring at any point and was a lot of fun. The Beetle Egg things are great fun too.

I also enjoyed how it was scripted to have a persistent inventory across each of the missions, I ended up with a shitload of fire arrows by the end of it to rek all of the haunts with in the final showdown.

Best of all it doesn't suffer from autistic pixel hunting, tiny meme levers or shit like that for anything in the critical path to finishing the missions. Anything that involves a hard to see key or semi-secret area or objective is optional, thank fuck. Have to respect Nicked for having the sense for this kinda stuff when it comes to this campaign at least.

The only real complaint I have about it are the playstation-2-style higher poly models that the characters use, which will always feel out of place in the Dark Engine for me. It's like putting lipstick on a pig, I'd rather just look at the pig as it was in all its piggy glory. Tampering with T1/T2's art style is usually always just awful unless it's super stylized like FotPT.

>>4437114
Fave OM is either Song of the Caverns or Bonehoard, hard to say.
Fave FM is even harder to say because I literally haven't played any of them more than once, I've just been trying to plow through them all in an attempt to play catch-up. If I had to choose it would either unironically be Endless Rain (bit of a stock response) simply because it's so well built and "complete"-feeling or Midnight in Murkbell. MiM can be pretty obtuse at times but there was so much to it and the thing I love most about a good mission is its ability to deliver on gameplay variety.

OM: The Sword
FM: Gems of Provenance

>>4437114
OMs: Bafford's, Lost City and Song of the Caverns

FMs: Hidden Agenda, Eclipsed and Seven Sisters

>>4437534
Hidden Agenda, nice. Don't see that one mentioned often.

>Thief 1: Song of the Caverns
>Thief 2: Trail of Blood
>Thief 3: Wieldstrom Museum
Haven't played any FMs. Recommend me some based on my taste

>>4437114
>OMs
Bonehoard and Return to the Cathedral share the first place here. they both have a classic survival horror feel to them, with puzzle solving and resource management. Return to the Cathedral also has a great attention to detail.

>FMs
not sure. I'm not sure whether I've actually truly enjoyed any FM yet. I often appreciate cool aesthetics, but the actual gameplay tends to be pretty poor.

I guess I did like the two first missions from the Seven Sisters campaign. I have a soft spot for reused maps with story progression. and some of the "problems" the player was faced with felt very intuitive and fun to solve.

Was it difficult to come up with an original question, OP?

>>4437760
Heart of Bohn, Trail of Blood 2, Relic: Left for Dead and Godbreaker Mission 2 would be right up your alley.

>>4437797
What original question would you ask about Thief in 2017?

>>4437760
Oh fuck.
I uploaded that screenshot years ago.

>>4437835
Does Garrett consume alcohol?

>>4437835
Gee, what were criminal organizations like in the middle ages? Some questions about modding (how to make the Garrett skin from T2 more like Garrett from the T1 art, how to make motions, how to make FMs). There was also some talk about updating/changing the current FM lists and info to get starting at thief.

>>4437846
Only superior brandy.

>>4437889
I always thought that would come back up in the story. Like Garrett would get possessed by the vines or something.

How does Goalmaster apply to https://nickdablin.wordpress.com/2014/01/13/absolute-beginners-guide-to-creating-a-mission-for-thief-2-part-six/
I figured I had to export it, but to what folder? Shouldn't they be exported to the folder containing my current project?

>>4438052
goals.str goes to the intrface/miss20 folder. The command file can go anywhere you want but it's easier and faster if it is in your root DromEd folder.

>>4438052
>intrface/miss20 folder.
In the RES folder? patchedres? There's no miss20?

>>4438530
Create it yourself. This is also where the map goes.

how can I check the number of cells in a map?

To be a little more specific, the folders in red are the ones you can create for your mission. It's a good idea to open the corresponding CRFs within the RES folder to understand what they do (they're ZIP files). Here's a quick rundown.

Books contains all your readable texts (in .STR). You can use ParchEd to write them, which is useful since you can import the book arts and get a visualization.
Senpai is the folder in which you can add textures families. Don't add textures to the root Senpai folder, add them in a subfolder instead. e.g. senpai/mymission
Intrface is what it says on the tin: it contains all of the interface elements. This is where the objective text is stored, and where the in-game map is found as well. FMs usually are named miss20.mis when they're finished. That's why you will need to put your goals.str in intrface/miss20.
Mesh is where you can add AI meshes (.bin and .cal). The subfolders txt and txt16 are where their textures go.
Obj is the same as Mesh but for objects (.bin only). The subfolders txt and txt16 are where their textures go.
Snd is pretty self explanatory.
Strings contains item names and other things. This is where you can edit OBJNAMES.STR or TITLES.STR.

>>4438575
Fuck, forgot the pic like a taffer. Also lmao at the word filter.

>>4438565
When you optimize, you will see the CSGMERGE operation. This is the number of cells.

Has anyone from 4chan made a FM? If so, links?

Would you try Mynell's Spider Steaks™?

>>4439226
There's a certain notable Frenchman FM author that I'm 95% sure lurks these /vr/ Thief threads but I don't know if that's the same as "from 4chan" to you. There's also at least one more I suspect but I'm nowhere near as sure of it.

Has anyone tried something like this? I remember in the Bonehoard there's a teleportation trigger, which in theory could be used to accomplish somethinglike this. There are other applications as well, for example using clever teleportation to give access to massive spaces inside structures that are far too small to allow that. You just need to manage the player's ability to see some of the geometry, just like in the old pseudo-3d engines like Build and Jedi.

>>4439628
The mage's tower area in Fables of the Penitent Thief uses this a shitton. Every room in the tower is separated by multiple staircases and there are teleport triggers in each one that make it become a puzzle to find your way in and out.

Here's another example

>>4439631
Isn't that the whimsical cartoon comedy FM? I knew it was innovative but not that innovative.

>>4439639
Yeah. It's pretty fun actually. It also uses teleport triggers for just about every single interior when you click on a door, bit that's not really the same as the hallway/staircase example in the mage tower.

If I ever were to livestream some taffing around, what's the best time slot?

What's that FM
>black and white
>deserted city
>black creatures running around in the streets fast as fuck
>scary
>you have to escape the city

I'd like to play it again

>>4431051
I know its you, J.

>>4439735
>>black and white
>>deserted city
>>black creatures running around in the streets fast as fuck
>>scary
>>you have to escape the city
I'm certain I've played this before. I seem to recall that you don't even play as Garrett in that mission, but some woman. It's all monochrome including the HUD.

>>4439735
A Better Tomorrow

>>4439738

I remember you start in a cellar or prision of some sorts and during that time the city went to shit and everyone died or evac'd. Then you get out of the cell or wtv and there' a fucking black creature running around in the sewers and more on the street. Took me a lot of guts to move forward.

I think that's it >>4439742

This fucking mission. I dare any of you to convince me there's a scarier one.

Holy shit. Just played A Better Tomorrow because you guys were talking about it. That shit was extremely high on the spook scale and it's the kind of mission that makes you want to ghost it more than anything, because those fucks are everywhere and new ones spawn when you enter certain areas so you're constantly glued to the thickest shadows you can find.

It honestly felt like all the good parts of Rocksbourg's horror put into a mission without any of the shitty pixel/lever/glyph hunting. The location of the docks key was clued up perfectly fine and none of the food bags were too out of the way that they were impossible to find (I ended with 8, I assume there are 9 or 10 and a bonus objective or something, but I only needed 7 for Expert). The rare fulfilling DrK mission. I did cheesemantle my way on to the highest roof of the map and found the taffer bonus objective, too.

Pic related gave me a chuckle.

>>4439836
Garrett: "What the hell is a grubber anyway?"

>>4439886
Which mission does SlyFoxx say that in? Whatever it was I played it semi-recently and laughed a lot when that came up.

>>4439894
No clue, I had no idea he actually said that line.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXnZpl2rlVQ kek

>>4437328
Song of the caverns is great. Felt like a bridge in level design between t1 and t2.

>>4439571
I once clicked a youtube recommendation called "scariest moments in thief 2", and for some reason, it actually showed mynell's storage room. I bet this is the kind of person who hates T1 for being too "supernatural".

>>4439897
My bad, went and checked soundfiles of recent missions I played and it's actually a line from Death's Turbid Veil where he says "What the hell is a taffer anyway?" but I definitely do remember the "What the hell is a grubber anyway?" line from a readable in some mission.

>>4440024
I find it pretty similar to the bank design-wise, which is my second favorite mission in Thief 2.

>>4440024
My favorite thing about Song of the Caverns is the bait and switch aspect. The beginning caverns area with the Craymen is already great but then it gets you into the opera house in a really unorthodox sorta way. If Garrett had known that the water talisman was in the opera house from the beginning he would have just gone into the opera house through the upper floor windows or something.

The first playthrough of Thief Gold and progressing through that mission is an extremely memorable experience.

>>4440106
Now that you mention it, I can see that. All the vast tile floors with wood around the edges.

>>4440115
I agree. I remember after the first time I played the game, I couldn't remember whether those parts were from different missions or not. I liked the opera house area itself so I tried skipping through all the levels but I couldn't which level it was in since you don't start there. I thought I was going crazy remembering levels that never were.

ITT: times you acted like the Trickster
>somebody on /v/ asks for advice for their first time playing Thief
>tell them not to miss the bow upgrade in the Bonehoard
LOCK ME UP AT CRAGSCLEFT AND THROW AWAY THE KEY

>>4440146
VIK'S GONNA FREAK

Did Sperry ever release The Undercroft in some way or another?

>>4437114
My favorite OM is "Thieves Guild."

>>4440149
No, not yet.

>>4440151
MY HAMMER AWAITS THEEEE

>>4440151
I unironically think that Thieves' Guild is underrated.

>>4439735

Comfy Thief marathon night when?

>>4437141
It's the only game i'd highly recommend investing in a CRT for.

>>4440454
I actually did try out a CRT but it had a terrible sort of ghosting and I was too retarded to figure out why. I also didn't have a place to put it and it whined loudly so I probably wouldn't have kept it anyway. I should probably try another.

>>4440115
I remember getting so hyped to explore a cavern. Then I was disappointed that you were supposed to rob an opera house. I had a bad experience the first time playing it being so upset

>>4437924
The healing fruit you find in Escape is implied to be what the wine is made from

>>4440469
Hahaha, I feel you. I'd have liked to explore a big cavern/temple similar to the lost city but with a water theme as well. But the opera house section is really good too so I still loved the mission.

tk
tk
tk tk tk tk tk tk tk

You come home one day and this guy has destroyed all of your plants. What do you do?

Keep in mind he is The Builder's divine vessel on Earth, and he builds a lot of things (unlike Garrett)

>>4440753
I sic my 8-legged gardener on him. His name is Longdaddy and takes shit from no one.

>>4440753
>this lisping, ugly autist has an entire army of qts that worships him
how?

>>4440829
>the lisping, ugly autistic pscyopath that wants to kill all life is a progressive who padded the mechanist ranks with girls
really activates those almonds, terri

>>4440146
>bow upgrade
Any know of good FMs that include this as a reference or easter egg? I can only think of the brothel mission in Thief 2X in which you can find the "bow upgrade (broken)" and it's a junk item.

Also shoutout to Wicked Relics and the shadowjack (super blackjack that makes you invisible). I like it when FMs include silly secret stuff and don't take themselves too seriously.

>>4440946
Actually, now that I think of it, are there any good FMs with notable weapon changes? I guess there's no source code so the community couldn't really mod new ones in, but some missions do have changed or altered weapons, so there must be some way to do it. Thief 2X has the elemental arrows, not sure about any others.

>>4440946
I remember one FM having a hidden stash of fire arrows next to a plate that said "bow upgrade". I've forgotten which one it was, though.

>>4440917
>Progressive who pads the ranks with girls and wants to kill all life
Now come on. Not every progressive wants to pad the ranks with girls.

>>4440946
Inverted Manse has a bow upgrade of sorts, doesn't it? I don't think it's meant as a reference though.
>>4440963
It also has custom arrow types.

>>4440946
Afaik dromed actually allows a decent amount of customization when it comes to weapons/inventory items. A ton of FMs have custom arrow types or weapons with different functions. Mission X is a good example of that sort of stuff.

I doubt it lets you replace the entire gameplay with them (completely different fencing styles or whatever) but I'm not well versed in it.

>>4440965
That might have been Bad Debts.

>>4440917
I assume this isn't covered at all in the games, but what would the Hammerite and Mechanist stances on human sexuality be?

>>4441231
IIRC it is actually specifically mentioned with the 1 (one) Hammerite in all of Thief 2, he has a conversation in the second mission (Shipping & Receiving) with some civilian. The Hammerites are against females joining their order and all that shit and the Mechanists are the progressives and have popular support because they allow women to join, it's one of the reasons why the Mechanists eclipsed the Hammerites in power so suddenly.

>>4441231
>>4441245
OH, I just read your post as in sex (as in gender"-ism"), not sexuality as in hetero/homo/whatever. I think the setting is primitive enough that there wouldn't be any difference between the two factions and they'd take the old-timey christian stance on it. It's meant to be sorta like Catholicism versus Protestantism is how I always saw it. The actual gender thing of allowing females is pretty much entirely different.

What is it with Thief and the number 7?
>The Seven Sisters
>Seven Shades of Mercury
>The 7th Crystal

How much of this is based on canon sources?

>https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx15UpADleAPc1JiaVFHQVV3dE0/view

>>4441854
Looks to me to be about 85% just filling in all blanks with unsubstantiated fanfiction. The table of names near the end seems to be the most objective section, with most of the info taken directly from the games.
At least it doesn't seem to directly contradict things that have actually been revealed unlike pic related.

>>4441883

What is exactly is wrong in that pic?

>>4441905
A lot. First, it doesn't make any sense that the Lost City is this recent. Same goes for the Kurshok citadel. Second it was never mentioned anywhere at all, nor even implied, that the Trickster used the Eye to raise the dead during the incident; it is specifically mentioned in TDS that Pagans loathe necromancy anyway. The City Watch didn't even exist at that time. Third, Karras dissociates himself from the Hammers AFTER Thief 1, not while and not before. We have no idea when Thief 2 takes place, so that two-year gap is very arbitrary. Thief 1 has references to the year 34, but nothing like this is found in either Thief 2 or TDS.

>>4441948
>never mentioned anywhere at all, nor even implied, that the Trickster used the Eye to raise the dead during the incident

It's wrong to state it as a fact, sure, but it all points to some envolvment by the Trickster. Or is the Eye completely independent?

I agree with everything else, I completely missed those errors.

>>4441948
>We have no idea when Thief 2 takes place
Everything else you said is pretty much accurate but the time between Thief 1 and 2 has been established. On an early promotional website for Thief 2 back in something like 1999, it said that the sequel takes place 18 months after the first game. Which makes sense because Thief 1 concludes at winter, and Thief 2 starts at summer. One and a half years difference, and a seasonal change.

>>4441951
The Eye is in fact completely independent. It's a Keeper artifact with no allegiances to anything other than the Failsafe. It destroyed the Old Quarter because the Hammerites tried to exert their power over it, and Constantine had to use alchemical shenanigans to forcibly extract the Eye's power for his Dark Project. The Eye was never on his side. There's an unused voice line for it from an earlier version where it was on the Trickster's side but it was changed with Constantine's backstory.

>>4441948
The biggest flaws are the lost city and sunken citadel dates for sure. I'm sure it was indicated in TDS that the events described there for the sunken citadel happened at least 1000 years ago, or even "thousands" plural.

>>4441956
>keeper artifact

Then why was it found in the Esse mountains when the Hammers were building Cragscleft (supposing that's true and not FF)? Was it sentient before it became a Keeper artifact?

>>4437141
>tfw on OLED

>>4442002
I think you may be confusing the Eye itself with Constantine's research, because in his journals it reads that he found some rare flowering plants in the Esse mountains which contained an alchemical formula which can render sentient inanimates unconscious.
It didn't exist before it became a Keeper artifact. It was a keeper. A human person. When the Failsafe was created, five keepers volunteered to have their physical existence transformed to five artifacts that would power the Failsafe glyph. One of those people became The Eye.

>>4442035

Maybe. As far as I can remember, the Hammers found The Eye during Cragscleft construction (hence the undead in the mines) and brought it to the Cathedral. I was almost sure Cragscleft was on the Esse mountains (north of The City), maybe not. Anyway the point is: what happened to The Eye for it be found by the Hammers in a remote place? Seems like someone lost it.

>It didn't exist before... ...of those people became The Eye.
That's interesting, didn't know that.

Is it said where the bonehoard is actually located? Is it outside of the city itself like the mage towers and cragscleft or is that just an illusion caused by how isolated the entrance Garrett takes is? I seem to remember something about dock workers finding the noises from the zombies unsettling - so it's inside the city in a cemetery lot near the docks?

>>4442045
>didn't know that.
Conveniently Gamall stole all of the books referring to the Failsafe and the artifacts, so basically all of the information about The Eye and related stuff is found in Gamall's hideout in TDS.
I don't actually remember the backstory of where the Hammerites found The Eye. If it was found in some distant location outside the City, why would it have been stored in some random Old Quarter cathedral and not some more important and high security place like the main temple? Also I'm not even convinced that Cragscleft is in the Esse.
Pic related is from an old concept experiment of mine where I was trying to come up with intermediary missions to connect each TDP mission to the next. That one is Garrett starting his journey up the mountain pass towards the Cragscleft quarry.

/vr/ should make an FM together. There's an FM called Chain Project, where a bunch of different authors made different sections of a map independently and stitched them together in the end.
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113039
The end product is a mess of course but it could be fun to do the same idea here.

>>4442067
>If it was found in some distant location outside the City, why would it have been stored in some random Old Quarter cathedral and not some more important and high security place like the main temple?

But the Cathedral was not random. It was the greatest, most honorable and prestigious building the Hammers to show off in order to increase influence in The City and get more followers. It would make sense The Eye would go there to be studied and used (given that you actually see the military, scientific and library complexes inside the Cathedral in RTTC) after they got a hold of it, especially if they were intending to use its powers.

Meanwhile, I went and searched for whatever I read about Hammers finding The Eye in Cragscleft - found nothing. I'm either Mandela Effect'ing myself or I actually, at some point, made up some head canon stuff.

>>4442048

I remember something about it being located in Dayport. Also, Dayport is called DAYport because the workers would only work during the day, for fear of the undead, especially at night. Not sure if this is canon or not, but it's good for me.

Also in Dayport is the Necromant tower (T2 - Life of the party) belonging to the guy who was expelled from the Hand Brotherhood as mentioned in some papyrus in TG, The Mage Towers. Dayport sounds nice if you're into the undead.

>>4442098
Don't sweat the Mandela effect. I'm absolutely sure a promotional website stated that T2 takes place 1.5 years after T1 but I can't find that site anywhere.

>>4442086
How many FM creators do we even have here? I'm assuming almost everybody's at the never touched DromEd/made a room with a guard in it level.

>>4441427
>that post number
m8...

>>4441427
7 is somewhat of a magic number in western culture as well. In the Bible and many other religions it represents the union of heaven (3) and earth (the square), and it recurs in many places like seven days of the week, seven heavens, seven deadly sins, etc.

>>4442086
It would be neat to do a sort of paying-the-bills levelset, where every map is it's own contained thing loosely related to money troubles or dealing with some criminal element.

r8 my new map of the districts.

I guessed the locations of newmarket, new quarter and north quarter from the ward divisions (colour coded), and just put shoalsgate somewhere close to water, but for the remaining districts, every placement is pretty much canon.

>>4441251
I actually didn't mean gender equality nor LGBT affairs at all, I think I could have worded my post better.

I was wondering how they (especially Mechanists) would reconcile their innate instincts to court women and father children with their beliefs that biological life is blasphemous and a sin. Perhaps they would make the excuse, "If we father children, we will have more Mechanists to enact The Builder's Will, and so it is a necessary evil"?

>>4442398
The Hammerites just don't allow women in, so I'd guess it works just like how monks used to get new people in the middle ages: rich families would send most of their children to monasteries to avoid fights over property when they got older.
As for the Mechanists, I think they'd consider sex blasphemous as well, and that they only let women in to grow their order quickly in the short term. Does having children really matter when Karras' long-term plan is to have machines take over?

OM: The Sword
FM: Endless Rain

>>4442175
That's the thing, I think it would be a great way for people to get into DromEding since the end quality of the level wouldn't matter so much.

>>4442723
>tfw you make a mission with switch/key pixel hunts at every turn just to troll /vr/

I was thinking about how cool it'd be to have an FM set on a bridge filled with housing/slums/scaffolding/etc. like pic related and then I remembered this is literally a thing in Thi4f, right? I haven't played that game since it came out and basically just omitted it from memory so I'm not sure if this idea was just that sitting there in the back of my mind or just a general fascination with this sort of thing.

>>4442796
I haven't played Thi4f but I seem to remember reading that the bridge explodes during an escape setpiece.

>>4442816
Yeah it's all on fire and you basically just run through it all and use water arrows to douse fires in your way etc.

Thi4f is a fucking """"cinematic"""" mess of a game.

>>4442824
It really fucking gets to me when I think about it, Thief even with this archaic as shit engine is still miles above shit today.

And I am reminded of that fucking game informer video where those fucking philistines were talking trash about Thief with the thi4f devs.

I fucking hate Canada.

>>4442796
It would be a great idea for a level, problem is Thief has a problem showing big chunks of terrain.

Maybe a dedicated skybox would work?

>>4442839
The Thi4f devs berating the fans of the franchise they're working on for being nostalgic really set the tone of that game's release.

>>4442882
It's not 1998 anymore.

>>4442841
It would be somewhat feasible with fog I guess.

>>4442839
>game informer video where those fucking philistines were talking trash about Thief with the thi4f devs.
link?

>>4442839
>I fucking hate Canada.
Nobody hates Canada.

>>4442839
>Montreal
>Canada
We hate those frogs as much as you do

>>4443178
>hating the only people who differentiate you from americans

>>4443180
>Acadians
>Newfies
>First Nations Tribes
>Black Nova Scotians
>Hutterites
You don't know shit about Canada.

>>4443301
>acadians
>we hate those frogs
good going
>first nations
lol they're third world thanks to you

>>4442970
Are you sure anon?

>>4443178

Yes that Montreal Western game dev hub, where many triple A garbage are made nowadays, full of untalented, sjw worthless hacks.

>>4442723
I've seen similar projects fail, it's much better if you're sure there's gonna be a few people who *will* actually deliver something. I'm all for community things like this, but it's not easy.

>>4442970
There I found it.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrcFKLwhfbI

50 minutes of pure shit, and the end is golden they just give up and go play some retarded shit.

>>4442796
I recall seeing something like that in Thi4f, and there's a level with a similar theme in Dishonored as well, the one where you kidnap the inventor.

Does the setting of Thief 1 have horse-drawn carriages and shit like that (or horses at all? do burricks replace horses in thief? burrick-drawn carriages?) and are just never seen or spoken of because it's irrelevant to the game itself & not feasible in the game engine? If it's the case I imagine it would be a fucking nightmare to get around the city effectively with all its cramped streets and shit, but then real life medieval era cities and shit were all like that.

>>4443565
There's a carriage in Bafford's cutscene.

>>4443575
wow i guess my whole burrick theory got rekt then

rest in peace burrick-drawn carriages

>>4443565
burricks are too hated in the thief universe to be used as common pets. remember that everyone thinks ramirez is extra creepy because he keeps burricks.

>>4443565
Of course it does they appear all the time on cutscenes, the very first mission in fact you can hear galloping horses.

Unless you want to turn Thief into 70s sci fi fantasy coupled with two moons and hidden derelict starships with slumbering combat droids.

Which I am fine.

>>4443604
Ramirez did nothing wrong

>>4443610
he built a boring mansion

Happy birthday my dumb spurdo country!
Gathering at The Inn was actually made by a Finn.

>>4444296
finns are actually overrepresented in the thief community. isn't the greyfather gems campaign also finnish, or am mixing it up with something else?

>>4444352
Too many frenchfags as well.

>>4444386
At least Finnish FM authors learned to speak English and don't release missions in their unintelligible language.

>>4438536
Let's start from the beginning.
I have created the EndRoom, made the objectives and saved them as a .gml file.
So what now?

I've always thought I never had a problem with the Mage Tower and the Hand Brotherhood lore-wise. It seemed to me like an ok addition, something new but completely isolated from the City, which really added to the mystical atmosphere of the mission. Now I realize it kinda takes away from the overall theme of the game, where everything magical stays in the shadows, corrupting the City in devious way (or it's simply forgotten like the Lost City) and it's ultimately eradicated by a hero who simply relies on his wit and skills for personal gain.
I can always see it as some sort of expansion, I suppose, a detour from the usual City adventures.

is there any FM set just outside the sealed section barricade? it would be cool to see an interpretation of what happened in the surrounding area.

>>4445036
I had this idea that The Watchman's Grave would have a brother statue just outside the Wall, called Watchman's Stand. The Grave is where hundreds of soldiers fell defending the evacuees and The Stand is where they finally stopped the tide of monsters.

In dromed is it legit to start with just a gigantic air brush and then build inside of it?

does newdark for thief gold make lights colored by default (eg torches)? Also, does it make the ambient light brighter? I can't get the pitch black darkness from thief 1 without messing with settings in the editor

>>4445254
Oh, also. I watched Dale's tame the dromed beast tutorials and in the first one he said it's best to never build near 0,0,0 (the map's center) because of ghosts or some shit. What does that even mean? Is there an actual reason to not build near the map center? When I look at OMs in the editor they are all centered just fine.

>>4445254
I've heard that it's a poor idea.

>>4445274
It does make torches colored by default. Change saturation under LightColor to make them colorless. Not sure about ambient light.

New FM from a new author. It's a quite good, straightforward no bullshit sort of mission.
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148488

>when you realise you registered at TTLG a decade and a half ago and your shitposts and garrett cringe threads are probably all still there to be found

>>4445297
Just gave it a quick go (and I mean quick, the mission was very short and I didn't really explore everything).

The architecture and level design was pretty good for a guy's first mission, which I'm pleasantly surprised with. The outdoor city areas especially looked very detailed.

I found the crypt that the thieves were (accidentally) raiding, got the hammer loot and checked the opposite chamber, I saw a panel in the wall that looks like you can open it but I couldn't find a switch or anything after checking that room for a while so I just left and went back to the actual objective.

Found the manor, got in, grabbed all the loot and ended the mission.

>"Oh, but forgive me, you are, possibly,'friendly' with the Order of the Hammer?"
>"Yes..."

What now?

>"Oh, but forgive me, you are, possibly,'friendly' with the Order of the Hammer?"
>"Yes..."

What now?

>>4446145
>if constantine had just taken the eye (organic) from one of his followers and paid garrett properly, he would have succeeded with his plan

Just wanted to say to the guy who disagreed with me that a blackjack and a sap are two different things in the previous thread:
No, you're wrong.
A blackjack is and always was a short club, and a sap is and always was a small sack filled with weights. They aren't interchangeable and common dictionaries and encyclopaedias support that assertion. Anything you've read to the contrary was written by someone who doesn't know English.

>>4445309
You know, Razörfist was one of the most active members of TTLG back then. In fact he has two nicks there. xAcerbusx and Captain Spandex. iirc the former was an enthusiastic fan and the latter was the argumentative edgelord ie. the Rageaholic. He's also a great comic artist. We never reconciled our differences in whether TDS is superior to TDP due to TDP's overfocus on grave robbing.

>>4446145
>"I'll fill the cathedral with plants and you find the guiding beacon, then once we get the servants back into the cathedral, we'll get Karras to signal them and lock him in with them. Let's go right now!"
>"Ok."

What now?

Bumb for Bumblesons getting thrown out of the party we weren't invited to taffing Karras cunt

>>4446575
>rothschilds bow to the bumblesons

>>4446575

>Karras, the crooked nose leader of the liberal progressive offshoot of the conservative Hammerites, the Mechanists, doesn't want to invite one specific wealthy family to his party to be introduced and later given a Servant, in order to be killed during the rustgaslocaust
>that family is the Rothchilds

Got me thinking

>>4446637
Memes aside I'm pretty sure in Angelwatch you can find an invites list that says that the bumblesons were sent an invite but they never responded and it was marked down as possibly lost in transit.

>>4446745
Err, not the bumblesons. The Rothchilds.

In the ending cinematic of Thief 2, what is this brief vision at 1:00? Of a demoniac figure standing amid a growing tree with a harsh red fog, which with the sound would suggest anger?

My interpretation is Viktoria's spirit or soul or something sending a triumphant, boastful message to Karras psychically. You can see it rouse him abruptly from his thoughts.

>>4447064
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5SpLH5oDEs

>>4447064
>>4447069
Sorry to disappoint you but it's just one of the servants standing there releasing the rust gas.

>>4437114
T1: Assassins, The Sword, Song of the Caverns, Return to the Cathedral
T2: First City Bank and Trust, Blackmail, Life of the Party, Masks
FM: haven't played many, so dunno.

bout to install and play through Thief 1 for the first time
anything I should know before I start?

Just played T2FM Kingsbridge and that's really just Rocksbourg levels of ttlg fanboyism for muh atmosphere with a gigantic fetch quest full of autistic shit like:
>finding each and every anti-bug vial and applying them, usually found in secret places
>finding the dude in the tavern attic that you can barely hear the flies on and the attic ceiling panel is hard to spot)
and buggy scripting such as:
>throwing a flare down in front of a house that it's meant to go on and it not activating until you've tried it 10 times, and on the 11th time it finally decides to work properly and light up because it managed to be placed on the exact right pixel the game wanted it to be
>allowing the air arrows to dispel the bugs from the plague victims but you still need to use the anti-bug shit on them, so if you didn't have any at the time and you air arrowed the bugs away you have to go around figuring out which one is the right one, and it also lets you waste the anti-bug shit on guys you've already cured which means you can literally be left unable to finish the mission

Only this time it comes with the contrived illusion of choices and consequences because once you turn the cure into the cure arrows you've got the bad ending and you'll probably only realize this later when you find out you (for some reason) can't use the arrows on the fireplaces, and can't turn the cure arrows back into the cure to throw on the fireplaces. This also means the entire wanderer area is totally pointless if you're going for the "good ending".

The Calendra's Cistern style shops were cool, and I chuckled a bit with the rentable ladder because when you throw it down at the place it's meant to go it flies into place as if it's magnetic or some shit. The guards that come into the room if you try to take a painting without disabling the alarm is also neat. Unfortunately other than some cool scripting related stuff (when it's working) the mission has some really boring gameplay. Looks nice though, I guess.

>>4447486
Install TFix for Thief Gold, it fixes many bugs. Don't use any texture pack shit, just use NewDark (updated engine).

Play on Expert because it has the most objectives/most content/most fun and the game was clearly designed around it.

You can slash wall banners with your sword, sometimes wall banners are hiding secret passages, loot stashes or in the case of The Thieves' Guild mission an objective item. You might think this is a spoiler but if you didn't know this you might spend an hour running around looking for how to finish the mission, fortunately that's the only really obtuse mission in the game for a new player.

When you have rope arrows: Look up and look for wood often. Also recycle your rope arrows, generally it isn't worth buying more than 1 when they are available but that's up to you. If you miss a rope arrow it can be a pain but really just don't be afraid to quicksave just for making some jumps/shooting some ropes because if you miss you might just fuck yourself.

Your loot from each mission should be spent in the upcoming mission because it doesn't carry over further into the campaign. Basically: Mission 1 Loot -> Spend in Mission 2 buy screen

>>4447513
>Install TFix for Thief Gold, it fixes many bugs. Don't use any texture pack shit, just use NewDark (updated engine).
By that I mean pic related.

Link to TFix 1.25c:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7quQTgSRc9KSnR2ZkxCcWZkUEU

>>4447513
>>4447526
thanks anon, this is helpful
any reason to leave all those things unchecked? are they unfaithful to the intended look of the game?

>>4447540
Generally yes, along with Thief 2's art style being significantly different to Thief 1's. All those "T2 Style" options don't really fit T1 and the Enhancement pack is full of out of place high-poly shit that doesn't fit the look of everything else in the engine.

>>4447540
They're quite pointless.

>>4447540
Oh, one other thing. DEFINITELY rebind your controls. The default movement controls are pretty bad, there are a few alright presets to choose from but it's better to customize them yourself.

I just finished Thief 2 and I feel that Sabotage at Soulforge is one of the weaker levels in the game.

>>4447702
That's a rather common opinion. A lot of Thief 2's levels are decidedly mediocre and the quality spread a lot thinner than T1, the game is merely carried by the dark engine and T1's good gameplay.

>>4447841
I was expecting T2 to be better than T1 because every comment I read online or video I watched said that it fixed everything wrong with the first game by removing the supernatural levels. I didn't actually realize how much those levels added to T1 until I went into T2 and all the cool level variety was gone, there was the Lost City level in Thief 2 that I thought was going to be fun until I actually played it and saw that it was full of electric lights that made the level worse off.

>>4447841
>the game is merely carried by the dark engine and T1's good gameplay
People not liking Soulforge is common, this other garbage you posted thankfully is not. Thief 1 undoubtedly has more variety, but the mapping is much more detailed, elaborate, and most consistent across the board than Thief 1. You may think most of the T2 levels are boring but to act like they half-assed it and the game has to be "carried" by remnants of T1 is nonsense.

>>4447894
not him, but several maps in T2 just feel neutered compared to the ones in T1. everything seems so clean and in-place. all maps show the levels perfectly. and all city levels are perfectly flat.

>>4447894
Don't kid yourself, a large chunk of the levels are ass. Ambush and Trace the Courier are both forgettable as fuck and took the stuff that worked in T1 in small doses and dragged them out to the length of an entire mission. Kidnap is downright terrible because it's a recycled T1 map with completely out of place mechanists, bots and cameras plugged in that the level was never originally designed for, soulforge is xbox hueg with fetchquests that looks and feels totally uninteresting, framed is very clearly unfinished (third floor) and has le forced ghost objective, casing has le forced ghost objective AND le forced secret finding objective, masks is the exact same level repeated right after casing - just in case you weren't bored of crawling around the mansion yet.

Very poor quality gameplay on these missions, who gives a fuck if T2 has an extra couch or lamp in every other room now.

>>4448025
>framed is very clearly unfinished (third floor)
But Thief 1 has clearly unfinished areas in almost every mission. Cellar rooms in Bafford's, 2nd floor storeroom in Cragscleft prison, 1st floor and cellar rooms in Ramirez' mansion etc. I admit that something like the Shoalsgate third floor is a draft of a level, but I don't see equivalents spread across the whole game like that.
>Cameras and mechanists in KD
At least the mission is now designed for stealth and not with the assumption that players will be slashing burricks and dousing elementals. The Lost City has plenty of sections where stealth is clearly an afterthought and the game wants you to attack enemies.
>Framed is le forced ghost
The theme of the mission makes no sense whatsoever without it. How does the frame stick on Hagen if Garrett is just running around waving the incriminating evidence at cops' faces?
>Ambush, courier, sabotage
Those are all purely subjective opinions and I can understand why someone would feel that way

My biggest problem with Thief 2 is the accidental disconnect between the industrialization and relentless technological progress of the world and the warmth and comfort of the mood. Thief 1 does not support colored lightmaps or animated 3d skyboxes. This made all of the levels seem bleak and haunting, with nothing but clear cold skies above. Thief 2 has warm lighting and cloudy skies signifying a comfy summer night. Ergo the atmosphere of Thief 1 is a lot better than 2.

>>4448025
Casing the Joint is probably the most unfinished level. You can go right up to the next floor and steal all the masks before you're supposed to. It's not even like it's an exploit or anything, they're just there.

>>4448271
don't forget how the library ghosts are somehow back in Masks, completely nullifying any sense of accomplishment you could have from helping them in Casing.

>>4448271
Unfinished? What you're really referring to is "placeholder areas that you can get to by exploiting the level design". There's originally supposed to be only one way to the exhibits, guarded by a single guard, and alerting him will fail the mission so there should be no way to get there. But there is because LGS had such obsessive levels of design integrity that they refused to put up invisible walls, and it's possible to get by the guard you're not supposed to get by without failing the mission.
If you complain about that aspect of that particular level, you also have to complain about there not actually being a New York sized metropolis outside the level boundaries of Bafford's Manor. Clearly everything beyond those few buildings is "unfinished". When you stack up crates and get back there, there's just empty space.

>>4448290
>by exploiting the level design
Ah yes, that crafty "walking" exploit.
Don't kid yourself, you know the city thing is different. This would be more like if you rounded a corner and the street abruptly dropped off into the out-of-level void. That would certainly be unfinished.
The thing about Casing the Joint is that the masks aren't even supposed to be there. That was the whole point of finding the secret passage, so that Garrett could quickly steal them once they arrive - he says as much in the briefing. So it would've been easy enough to just not have the masks be there instead of trying to block off the level (I was never even under the impression that they tried to block off the level since I didn't have any trouble getting up there, it's nothing like climbing out of a level's bounds where you're clearly circumventing a barrier that's meant to be impassable). But as it is, you can steal the masks which aren't meant to even be in the mansion, and then inexplicably have to steal them again in the next level. I've heard that LGS had to rush Thief 2 out so they probably didn't get a chance to test the level that well. Hell, I've heard that's why you play the same level back-to-back in the first place. One of the missions planned for Thief 2 Gold were supposedly meant to be between CTD and Masks in the original game.

>>4448324
Your way of thinking about the level is completely unreasonable. LGS didn't bother going out of their way to remove everything when they converted Masks to a casing mission. The masks aren't supposed to be there, and Garrett is not supposed to go up there. Garrett's mission is to find the secret passage and leave undetected. There's no reason for Garrett to go exploring an empty exhibit space. The mission isn't unfinished. You're extrapolating a huge general design flaw from a few assets that the designers forgot to remove.
I haven't attempted to sneak into the placeholder exhibit area in probably a literal decade. I can't rememeber exactly how it's done. The first time I played Casing I was a 12yo non-native English speaking kid and understood perfectly well the idea of the mission, and the point of a guard staring at the only and well lit hallway towards an area I'm not supposed to go to. I shouldn't go there, and if I try I'll fail the mission. I'd be willing to bet that the patched version of the game makes it harder for you to get to the out of bounds area to really solidify the message into the brains of even the most severely mentally handicapped that there's nothing for you to see there and it isn't worth it.
Sorry to insult any 12-year-olds by implying that they might be just smart enough to maybe do what the mission objectives explicitly tell you to do

The worst missions of both games could use some more 6 months or revamp.

But even so both games have such incredible missions that it does not matter in the end.

>>4448205
Thief 2 has more colour but I dont think its a detriment. There are still places that remind you of 1.

In fact the alongside Thief 1 intro and end cutscene, Thief 2 cutscenes of the City maintain the look, and to me really show how the city actually looks like.

>>4448331
I don't see why Garrett wouldn't want to go up there. It's a good opportunity to survey the area before security tightens up (the name of the level is Casing the Joint, after all).
>Sorry to insult any 12-year-olds by implying that they might be just smart enough to maybe do what the mission objectives explicitly tell you to do
Because LGS games were always about doing exactly what you're told in a single way the developers intended, and nothing more.
I went there because it was an unexplored area and I wanted to check for loot. I'm not trying to say this one thing means the whole level is shit or whatever, but on top of back-to-back-to-back recycling extravaganza of Kidnap-CTD-Masks, it's just another thing that makes the final stretch of the game feel thrown together.
And while we're on the topic I always thought it's weird how the beginning area of framed is so simplistic and blocky, it's just free standing buildings in a flat lot. That's another area where I get the impression that they meant to go back and spruce things up but ran out of time. And I like that level.

Any recommendations for FMs that emulate how the city looks in the artwork and the cutscenes, while still using original textures and models?

I personally found the last mission in Calendra's Legacy to look very similar to the district in the ending cutscene in T1.

>>4448374
>the last mission in Calendra's Legacy to look very similar to the district in the ending cutscene in T1.
That's because it's literally the same street, complete with a homeless guy under a bridge warming himself by a barrel fire while a collector tower shines in the snowfall in the background.

>>4448374
Its impossible with the such an old engine. I imagine winding twisting streets, those weird magical lamps hanging on crazy places, strange gardens and mixed in industrial tubes and cables.

I say the dark engine already does a decent job.

>>4448205
>Cameras and mechanists in KD
>At least the mission is now designed for stealth and not with the assumption that players will be slashing burricks and dousing elementals. The Lost City has plenty of sections where stealth is clearly an afterthought and the game wants you to attack enemies.
That is not a level design related complaint about TLC, that is a complaint about the general design of the gameplay which had very different ideals from the devs at LGS for T1 than they did for T2. Being unable to pass through every area in the game without a first alert is not a flaw of the game, it's how the game was designed.

Garrett has immense agility to help him get away from attackers instead of coming into direct confrontation, using water arrows to take out fire elementals or broadheads to take out spiders isn't hard at all, you can blackjack everything that isn't undead or elemental and the game wasn't designed around the ghosting playstyle (something that literally only came into existence post-T1's release, and had a huge impact on how T2 was designed).

If you don't see the issue with taking a level that was designed from the ground up for one game with a very distinct playstyle to it and throwing it into a game that was basically completely redesigned as to what the game design goals were and plastering it with AIs and cameras that both do not fit the level design itself and make little attempt to even fit the theme then I don't know what to say. Kidnap is a lazy rehash of a level in every sense of the word, it wasn't even new to the series like Casing/Masks were. It'd be like porting the map Crossfire from Half-Life to Counter-Strike and expecting it to work because they're both FPS games and share an engine. Level design 101.

If T2-era LGS wanted an homage level to T1 then they should have picked one which had similar gameplay ideals to the core gameplay of T2, not the polar opposite and duct taping cameras and bots to everything.

>>4448406
>ran out of words
>>If T2-era LGS wanted an homage level to T1 then they should have picked one which had similar gameplay ideals to the core gameplay of T2, not the polar opposite and duct taping cameras and bots to everything.
Like taking Ramirez' mansion from Assassins and revamping it for T2's engine and art style, making it much bigger like they had originally wanted it to be for Assassins but were unable to because of the size of the rest of the mission.

>>4448374
There would need to be completely new post processing shaders for the engine. Things that add that tinted fog, which makes distant buildings look like those black silhouettes rising from the blue mist. A system that fades between visuals designed to aid gameplay in short range and visuals meant to replicate the cutscenes in long range. LODs of buildings that are 2d silhouettes in the horizon and fade into 3d geometry when approached.

>>4448395
You're wrong. A mission for the upcoming 20th anniversary contest looks just like that.

>>4448395
A lot of OMs and FMs manage to pull it off. That's why I used Calendra's Legacy as an example. Among the OM's, Assassins, Haunted, Shipping and Party all manage to pull it off to different degrees. My problem is that not enough FMs manage to pull it off, that's why I want recommendations.

>>4448391
Cool, I didn't realise that

>>4448415
Link?

>>4448406
Kidnap was obviously not only changed from the original Lost City but also playtested so the stealth works. The original Lost City was designed one way, with monsters and environmental hazards, and stealth or non-lethality were obviously secondary, just like the burrick and spider infested street in Haunted Cathedral that cannot be snuck through no matter what you try. Kidnap erased most of those challenges, replaced them with new ones and this time actually got playtested so it works in non-lethal stealth properly.
It may be a lazy rehash, but it works. TLC is the level with the brightly lit bottleneck hallways filled with creatures that scream when knocked out so literally all stealth tactics are out of the question. Kidnap is the level without those issues. The former is a Diablo dungeon, the latter is a stealth game level.

>>4448429
TLC's design is not a flaw. Thief 1's gameplay design is not a flaw. Not sure what is so hard to understand.

The game wasn't designed to be a pure stealth "ghosting is viable in every situation and every mission" game like T2 was. It was a stealth action horror game with its roots in Dark Camelot, a fantasy action game about fighting knights and ogres with your sword. This is not a flaw, this is just how the game is. Garrett is given sufficient agility to evade his foes even when he is caught, this is also primarily why flash bombs exist.

Kidnap was tested but it doesn't stop it from being out of place and an inferior experience to the original mission that the level geometry was designed for. TLC is not a Diablo level, it's a Thief level, a level with geometry made for Thief: The Dark Project, not for Thief 2.

>>4448415
Thats what I meant by already doing a decent job, but the low polygon count does not allow for curving streets for example.

>>4448428
It's only been shared in private circles for now, but it's perhaps the most industrial-looking city mission I've ever seen. It's downright sinister.

>>4448440
It absolutely does if you know what you're doing.

>>4448441
sounds really cool. I'm looking forward to all these OM-styled FMs

>>4448446
Anon dont be dense. I know it almost "does".

But its a fucking engine from pre historic times. Jesus fuck its not Unreal 4.

>>4448450
Be more specific then.

>>4448440
I'm not asking for perfect smoothly curved streets here. Diagonal streets are enough, as well as some streets with downward slopes, and of course, lots of towering buildings and underpasses.

>>4448472
>>4448451

My point was simply the dark engine cant realize the City the way a modern engine could thats all.

I TVRNED MINESELF INTO A GEAR CAVADOR
I'M GEAR KARRAS

>>4448337
>>4448349
I played through Casing yesterday and explored the upper floor in order to fill out my map and to be absolutely sure that there was nothing of interest there.

>>4448764
You know it may sound silly but I dont think Garrets footsteps and overall guard awareness is badly thought out.

First off before everything was rubber, footwear was noisy and even with modern stuff, its not that easy to be completely silent.

What I mean is that telltale sign someone is getting behind you, you wear the rustle of steps and clothing etc.

So in a complete silent hall like that imagine sprinting with big Garrett boots in the dead of the night, if you were a guard 10 meters away you could hear it.

Maybe Iam not making sense

>>4448790
It absolutely makes sense. If I walk up my stairs at night it sounds like fucking bombs going off.

>>4448790
No, you are right. The sounds are merely louder than people think / "tap-dancing shoes" to service the gameplay, for the ease of the player to hear what surfaces they/their enemies are moving on, this lets you pinpoint locations of enemies and let you know which materials you might have to be wary of coming up to those enemies.

Also makes perfect sense that Garrett wears leather boots instead of cloth footwraps because of how he approaches his targets and where he ventures to get them. He runs through sewers, makes big jumps over rooftops, runs across hot lava rock or sharp cave rocks when he's dungeon crawling, he needs them to be able to sustain friction against a wall after jumping to it and mantling up it.

"Why doesn't he wear cloth footwraps when he knows he's only robbing a house and bring his boots when he's going to the Lost City?" because that's stupid for gameplay and because Garrett always needs to be prepared for what he might face. Look at Escape, Song of the Caverns, Assassins, Ambush, Trail of Blood, Mage Towers - the amount of random shit and unpredictability that goes on in the City that he gets caught up can change his thieving activities in an instant so better to just wear the shoes that work for everything.

One of the worst things Deadly Shadows did was make it so crouching = totally silent.

>>4448790
IMO walking on vegetation should be much louder. at least walking on marble should theoretically be almost completely silent if you just do it slowly and carefully enough. with vegetation, there's no safe way to avoid the crunching sound.

>>4444691
Please help me.

>>4449020
But the game sorta already does that, there is the loud dirty sound from rough dirt surfaces and the more softer green turf.

Just played T2FM Morbid Curiosity, pretty damn good. Has a bit of fetch questy keyhunting to it but it's mostly optional. The biggest surprise is that even though it took me almost 3 hours to beat it didn't ever really get boring - it felt like two missions in one with tons of flavor and variety to it throughout.

The gallery/museum segment was absolutely perfect and came at the perfect time - just when I was starting to get a bit tired/bored of trudging around the city areas it throws that at you and reinvigorates the will to continue playing.

Highly recommend this one.

>>4449045
Dude, it's really not complicated. The .gml file is useful only for Goal Master. What you want to do is export it to a .cmd file by going to File -> Export, then run this .cmd in DromEd.

Would /thiefgeneral/ enjoy a game like Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines set in the Thief universe, in The City? That sort of "urban" RPG would work great in The City tbqhwy

>>4449156
>Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines set in the Thief universe, in The City?
isn't that basically just T3, though?

>>4449152
Don't belittle me. I am a beginner and this is difficult.
Especially when the use of Goalmaster is not addressed by Nicks tutorial.
The steps may be clear to you, but not to me. People after me who follow the tutorial they may run into the same problem. This needs to be explained clearly.

So,
Open the .gml file with Goalmaster. Export the file as Goals.str to the map 'miss20', a map I have to create myself in the compressed submap 'intrface' of the RES map. The map 'intrface' contains all of the interface elements. This is where the objective text is stored. Up to this point I have saved my progress in a different map, called 'Tutorial', that's in my general FM folder. What to do with that?
The command file, the .cmd, can go anywhere, but it's easier and faster if it is in your root DromEd folder. Select the Console, and type in [Run MyMissionObjectives.cmd] (or whatever you named it) and press Enter.
Then you continue with the paragraph [Quest Variables]?

>>4449152
Learning this program is difficult, especially when the use of Goalmaster is not addressed by Nicks tutorial, The steps may be clear to you, but not to me. People after me who follow the tutorial they may run into the same problem. This needs to be explained clearly.

So,
Open the .gml file with Goalmaster. Export the file as Goals.str to the map 'miss20', a map I have to create myself in the compressed submap 'intrface' of the RES map. The map 'intrface' contains all of the interface elements. This is where the objective text is stored. Up to this point I have saved my progress in a different map, called 'Tutorial', that's in my general FM folder. What to do with that?
The command file, the .cmd, can go anywhere, but it's easier and faster if it is in your root DromEd folder. Select the Console, and type in [Run MyMissionObjectives.cmd] (or whatever you named it) and press Enter.
Then you continue with the paragraph [Quest Variables]?

>>4449262
I don't understand what you're trying to do and the terms you're using. What does RES have anything to do with this? Don't touch this folder. Let's make this simple:

>Name your mission miss20.mis.
>In DromEd, go to Editors -> Mission Variables -> Dark Mission Description, type 20 in "Mission Number" and type miss20 in "Mission Pathname".
>In your DromEd/Thief folder, create a folder named intrface. In this folder, create a folder named miss20.
>Drop the file GOALS.STR in the intrface/miss20 folder.
>Drop the .cmd in your DromEd/Thief folder.
>Run the .cmd in DromEd. It will create all the quest variables by itself so you don't have to do it yourself. You can check if it worked by going to Editors -> Mission Quest Data. The tree should have a bunch of stuff in it.

Has there ever been a better undead mission than Inverted Manse?

>>4448435
>The game wasn't designed to be a pure stealth "ghosting is viable in every situation and every mission" game like T2 was.
Nobody was saying that. In fact ghosting isn't viable in every situation in every mission of T2. That's the whole reason why First City Bank and Trust doesn't have a loot objective. But it's still possible to get all the loot and finish the mission without being detected and not killing anyone.
If there's one "inferior experience" to the original TLC, it's the Thief Gold TLC. Yeah a city sealed by the keepers centuries ago and exactly when Garrett finds a way in, a bunch of wizards find their way in too, so they can have annoying patrols and stand in the wrong place at all times. But at least they don't scream and alert everyone else when they're knocked unconscious.
This is subjective opinion regarding Garrett's motives but I do think it's a flaw in some of Thief 1's mission designs when some areas are impossible to get through without alerting enemies. Mind you that I'm not talking about sneaking past without touching them. I'm talking about Garrett's egomania. To Garrett, killing people might be for bad thieves who can't get a job done without murder, but being seen is worse. The game doesn't have a frag counter on screen, it has a light gem because remaining unseen is the primary focus. The game can have all the undead and monsters it wants as long as there is a way to get rid of them or around them without being detected. Flash bombs and swordfighting are for players who fuck up, not standard practice for getting through something in a level.
Sure, one could argue that being detected by monster doesn't matter because they can't testify against you, but it's not about a tactical advantage, it's about Garrett's ego. Avoiding murder has never been a moral problem with him. He just likes patting himself inn the back for being better at his job than others.

>>4449938
The mages on the lost city really annoy me.

No way to take them out of gold?

>>4449982
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140679&p=2160913&viewfull=1#post2160913
Not sure how far this mod goes in changing Thief Gold, as I haven't tried it. Let us know if it works.

>>4450202
Looks like a crap mod honestly. Just edited the mages out and put the elementals for fucks sake I dont want a pure TDP.

>>4450209
Just do it yourself then instead of whining.

>decide to finish up Chalice of Souls
>starts snowing IRL for the first time this year

>>4449938
Nice headcanon and all but I'm talking about the actual gameplay. There's a reason why killing the haunts in RTTC and bugbeasts in Bedfellows are objectives and it's not something to do with Garrett's ego.

Garrett isn't the ghost every mission never been seen master thief people seem to think he is, otherwise he wouldn't almost get killed in assassins, or almost get caught by the watch in ambush. People seem to think Garrett doesn't exist to people in the city despite the massive amount of notoriety he's gained.

>>4449938
Garrett kills someone in T2's intro video.

>>4450456
In T1's intro as well. However, based on the documents keepers have written about Garrett, they keep a close eye on him. Everything they know about Garrett was brought to the table during his trail in Orland's kangaroo court, yet the only canon deaths they could cite to tie Garrett to the concept of murder are the ingame mission mandated deaths of Constantine and Karras. I believe this is because during the 4 years of feedback Ion Storm got of the previous two games, they realized that the consensus was that Expert difficulty reflects the canon story progression through Garrett's missions, and they made it official with Deadly Shadows, even keeping murder out of the intro cinematic. If he went around killing people whenever he needed, Orland wouldn't have needed to dredge up the only two confirmed murders.
>>4450428
>There's a reason why killing the haunts in RTTC and bugbeasts in Bedfellows are objectives and it's not something to do with Garrett's ego.
Firstly, if you never harm the bugbeasts the objective never appears. Secondly, it's Murus who doesn't let you leave the Cathedral until you kill the Haunts. And here's the kicker... if you truly think that Garrett is a carefree killer and you do not consider Expert difficulty to reflect the canon, the Expert-exclusive haunt killing objective never exists either. You can't have it both ways.

can't it be argued that killing haunts sets the souls of the dead hammers free?

in any case, killing an undead creature is hardly the same thing as killing a human.

>>4450556
My point was that going around and making a racket (where need be/where it's almost unavoidable to get spotted) isn't non-canon because your headcanon says Garrett supreme ghosted every mission in the series.

Expert difficulty is widely accepted to be canon but is not the same as ghosting, you can get spotted by humans and escape, spotted by humans and flashbomb/blackjack or gas arrow/mine them, etc. and it won't put your Expert objectives in jeopardy apart from in a few missions in T2. Garrett is not the "master thief supreme ghost that no guard has ever seen the shadow of let alone got a look at" that people think he is, he uses his tools and gadgets to get by. If Garrett was that sort of person he wouldn't have been tailed at the start of Assassins and almost killed, and he wouldn't have gotten the notoriety he has with the Downwinders and other factions in the city.

Flashbombs, flash mines, water arrows, gas arrows, gas mines and the blackjack are all major gameplay elements and not non-canon for an Expert playthrough of Thief. Hell, even slashing banners for hidden loot and bashing in keyed doors with a sword could very well be canon, it's just never really specified.

>>4450591
That's a lot of straw you've got there for a man. The years I spent in TTLG I got the impression that the most common accepted canon is everything that you can prove Garrett did on Expert difficulty and because it's a stealth game, not being seen is the bare minimum considering how easy Expert is with blackjacking. There's kind of a hierarchy of priorities, I'll try to describe it in a nutshell because it's in no way any kind of an official list, just the summary of the goals of an expert playstyle:

1:Never kill anyone
2:Never be seen
3:Avoid setting off alarms
4:Avoid leaving evidence whenever you can
5:Leave only the loot you can't get without violating 1-4

Basically if you can't stay undetected without killing someone, you won't stay undetected. Which thankfully isn't represented in the level design. If you can't avoid an alarm without being seen, you have to take the alarm because at least you are still undetected and your identity is safe. If you have to leave evidence to avoid an alarm, so be it. And if you can't steal something without leaving evidence, you might want to consider leaving the loot if you don't need it.
Being seen isn't as bad as killing someone and getting an instant game over. Alarm is better than being seen because it leaves no evidence of your identity. Evidence is better than an alarm obviously...etc.

>>4450885
None of those are the goals of THE Expert playstyle, the one that LGS made and shipped the game with. Those are the goals of the ghost playstyle, ghost is a community made playstyle that was birthed after the game was released, not something on the mind of the developers of the game.

Ghosting is not the same as Expert, and the game is an immersive sim - the type of game that the devs WANT you to experiment with and try all their tools and gadgets to find your way through rough situations. They didn't put noisemaker arrows in the game thinking players would never touch them, in-fact they can be quite useful if you find yourself in a less-than-perfect shadow with a guard patrol coming towards where you are, however niche a use that is.

Expert is canon, ghosting every mission is not and has never been indicated to be canon, the most you get is "Garrett is a master thief" - which could mean just about anything when it comes to the game. Playing ghost is fine and that's the beauty of the immersive sim - it lets you approach the challenges and obstacles of a mission with many, many different mindsets, but to suggest that ghost is canon because MUH GARRETT HAS NEVER BEEN SEEN is just disingenuous as fuck to knowing what the genre is about.

The point is that it's not specified so you can play the game the way you want to play it (the entire point of the genre), but at points in Thief 1 where it's hard to pass by some monsters without making a racket it's pretty much guaranteed that Garrett either knocked them out, eliminated them or used his skills to evade them. If anything it's more likely that Garrett is the serial blackjacker that the vast majority of players play him as than the ghost autist that the extreme niche think he is.

>>4450954
In-fact, all you need to do is look at how Garrett approached Undercover as a mission to prove this. He could have easily gotten in over the wall into the courtyard and tried to sneak his way through, but he knew that it would be easier and more straightforward to just walk in the front door pretending to be an initiate to scout the place out, find the talisman(s) and find out how to obtain them while in disguise. He did this knowing that the heat would be on as soon as he grabbed them, too, he sets off the alarm and runs right back out through the front door after evading the hammers.

>Garrett walks up to the Hammer Temple front entrance, stares this guy in the face and hands him forged/fake Hammer novice credentials a mere half-hour before setting off the alarm, alerting every Hammerite in the building and making off with the air talisman
>Ghost rules have to make a specific mention of this event and exempt it from breaking the ghost rules because it is required to beat the mission

>Garrett was never seen by anybody guys, he's a shadow that doesn't exist to the people of the city and the hammers had no idea who took the talisman!
Mental gymnastics.

I like to see Garrett as being very cocky and, while very skilled, overestimating himself. This is pretty apparent in Thief 1.

>>4451081
Yeah, that's pretty much how the game shows him. It's the fans that went ham and made Garrett seem like some total mary sue that is some sort of myth to the people of The City, when it's not presented that way at all.

>>4451090
I always though it's funny how the thieves in Thieves' Guild sound pissed and call him by name when they see him.

>>4451045
This is what Hammerite novices wear by the way. There's no hood or hat to hide his face.

>>4451142
I think I just realised a slight oversight on the part of the devs. Novices are forbidden to speak, yet this one speaks freely.

>>4451320
I think that might just be on holy temple grounds or something. At Cragscleft/outside of the temple they might be allowed to speak. There's no other novices at the Hammer Temple apart from Garrett visiting, is there? Could be misremembering desu.

>>4451353
That's my guess as well regarding speaking. There's no novice in the temple except Garrett.

200 hours in paint how did i do?

>>4451142
>This is what Hammerite novices wear by the way. There's no hood or hat to hide his face.
Actually in the briefing of the mission you can see what Garrett actually wears and that outfit has a hood. And considering limited ingame graphics tech, the way a character visually appears in a cutscene is always more accurate than an ingame representation. So Garrett's face was indeed covered while he visited the temple. Too bad it's impossible to get out of the talisman vault to the surface without being seen by at least one hammerite. But they'll only be seeing that one novice running away from them anyway.

>>4451419
MAN CRAB SWOOP
>>4451426
Either way I doubt he went out of his way to hide his face and look suspicious as fuck to the guard at the front gate asking for his credentials. Plenty of people would have seen him walking around while they were non-hostile also.

To even suggest that Garrett went out of his way to ghost Undercover would just be total ass cheek, desu. If he was really that deep into it then he would have climbed the courtyard wall and snuck through the place.

>>4451419
100% taffed up. You got it backwards. The Virgin is supposed to have exaggerated downplays of his humble abilities that may or may not actually have some merit afterall when compared to Chad's empty promises.
The Chad is supposed to boast everything he is and does while being absolutely clueless that he's actually a useless moronic piece of human garbage that couldn't find his balls with both hands glued to his balls, and only has delusions of being able to do anything he claims to be capable of while simultaneously being unable to properly spell said abilities.
Virgin is Garrett, Chad is nuGarrett.

>>4451432
>To even suggest that Garrett went out of his way to ghost Undercover would just be total ass cheek
As I said, that's actually impossible. Unless there's some ridiculous AI glitch that causes all of the hammerites to vacate the sparring area, you will never finish the mission without being chased at least once. Forget about ghosting, you can't even use the blackjack. Taking out too many guards always causes an alarm before you even get near the talisman vault. And taking out guards would be the only way to avoid getting chased after the alarm sounds.
That's actually interesting... The one confirmed ingame instance where Garrett has to be detected and get chased by angry guards is the one time he's disguised as someone else.

>>4451419
I always thought a The Virgin Mechanist vs. The Chad Pagan starring Karras and Constantine would be funny

>>4451456
Yeah, what I meant by that was that if he's walking in through the front door in a disguise it's really highly unlikely he'd try to hide his face and avoid being seen by every Hammer inside during the non-hostile phase of the mission when the alternative is just jumping the courtyard wall and doing it the old fashioned way.

>>4451463
Or Karras vs Chad Hammer

>>4451465
I always pictured him doing the whole "head down humble" thing that lower castes of cults do in the presence of higher ranking members.

>>4450954
>to suggest that ghost is canon
I have never heard of anyone trying to suggest that ghosting is canon. The game teaches you to avoid being detected at all times and expert difficulty prevents you from killing people, but nothing suggests that non-lethal incapacitation should be off limits as well.

>>4452249
Well
>The years I spent in TTLG I got the impression that the most common accepted canon is everything that you can prove Garrett did on Expert difficulty and because it's a stealth game, not being seen is the bare minimum considering how easy Expert is with blackjacking.
Is certainly implying it. Never being seen + Expert is literally just ghosting unless we're talking about piling up 15 unconscious bodies in the dark corner as not being seen because they were blackjacked before detection.

The only conclusive things we do know are what is 100% = Expert objectives + unavoidable enemies that Garrett has to run from or incapacitate in some way. For all we know Garrett went out of his way to broadhead every spider in the game because he hates creepy crawlies as indicated by his disgust for the bugbeasts in the objective text.

The whole "Garrett is a ghost and has never been seen ever EVER" thing is literally just headcanon and paints him as some sort of superhero that is incapable of making mistakes (despite the many mistakes he makes throughout the course of the games that lands him in trouble).

And one last time: the developers didn't make Thief 1 with ghost mode in mind, because it literally did not exist yet. The game is filled with gadgets and tools that are never used in ghost but they get the job done. The game has unavoidable or nearly unavoidable encounters with enemies in Undercover, Haunted Cathedral, etc.

Not much else to be said about it.

>>4452350
>unless we're talking about piling up 15 unconscious bodies in the dark corner as not being seen because they were blackjacked before detection.
Now you're getting it. Ghosting is a very specific category that is a bust as soon as you harm a single person in any way. You are the only one talking about that. Yes, decking the halls with sleeping guards is preferable to being seen even once, because when you knock out a platoon, they know that someone knocked out a platoon. When you're detected and run away from guards, they know that YOU were caught trespassing. One is evidence of assault by an unknown assailant, the other is evidence of trespass BY YOU. Not much else to be said about it.

>>4452373
Yes, and in Undercover you walk right in through the front door after staring the hammer at the gate in the face instead of going over the courtyard wall, then proceed to trip the alarm and meet at least 1 if not a dozen hammers on your way out. Ergo Garrett isn't some autist that puts a higher value on never being seen over an easier route to the goal. Canon.

>>4452373
Also that's all just headcanon again, by the way. Because being caught by guards and evading them with flashbombs or simply running away doesn't fail Expert and Expert is the only mode that matters.
>The years I spent in TTLG I got the impression that the most common accepted canon is everything that you can prove Garrett did on Expert difficulty and because it's a stealth game, not being seen is the bare minimum considering how easy Expert is with blackjacking.
The second half of this is literally Garrett superhero fanfic and has no basis in the actual game's story or objectives.

The controls are so weird in Thief Gold. Why can't you sidestep?

>>4452405
Rebind them lol. Slide Left & Slide Right = strafing.

>>4452397
Garrett also mentions that doing it this way is much easier since he's hidden in plain sight. He specifically mentions that it's normally impossible to stay undetected for very long in the temple.

How could mere man... CONCEIVE DromEd!?

Heah... 'twas, THE BUILDER...

>>4452397
And if that's not enough, if I was Garrett I would be much, much more afraid of being identified by the hammers and having them get a good look at me than some random house guard or downwinder thief because they're literally the city authority figures in T1 and they'd throw him in cragscleft and chop his hands off for theft.

He valued the objective of the talisman so he could get his hands on the eye and get the money far more than his face or likeness being identified by several hammers he comes face to face with in the hammer temple while in the process of stealing a priceless artifact from them.

I really don't think he went out of his way to creep crouch across every marble and metal floor in the series when he didn't have a rope arrow on hand when he could just flash bomb the guard and whack him in the face, but obviously it's almost as much conjecture as the Expert+ semi-ghost theory (which is literally almost entirely debunked by Undercover's existence as a mission).

>>4452463
meh. Personally I think Garrett is a big enough egomaniac that he indeed would rather sneak than "flashbang and clobber a guard". In Assassins he goes out of his way to steal Ramirez' wallet off his belt. The reason he doesn't kill is because theft via murder is too easy. So is the flashbang face-whacking thing compared to finding a quiet way around.
Garrett has been caught several times no doubt. Undercover is not possible to do 100% stealth, despite the whole disguise thing. Garrett's informant walked him into a police trap in the Crippled Burrick. And Deadly Shadows has wanted posters listing "theft and assault" with Garrett's face but no name. So obviously the tagline from the Thief 2 box art that says "adventures of the greatest thief the world has NEVER seen" is just as hyperbolic than the idea of Garrett canonically using the Lytha method ie. alerting absolutely everyone but stealing 100% of the loot and dealing zero damage. The truth is somewhere in the middle, but it's better to err on the side of the "master" part of the "master thief" and assume that he's pretty good on the whole sneaking department.

>>4452494
>The reason he doesn't kill is because theft via murder is too easy.
Does he ever actually say that? I thought it was always because the amount of heat he'd get for murder is much, much higher than the amount of heat he gets for theft & clobbering people over the head with the blackjack.

>>4452507
Every mission with human NPCs doesn't just state the Expert killing restriction, but also the reason for it, which can be summarized as: "Kiling is for amateurs". It's not evil, it doesn't have negative consequences, it's just for scrubs.

This mission is SO FUCKING GOOD

>>4452560
for me, the bank embodies everything I hate with T2.
>fin-the-siecle styled architecture instead of the medieval/early modern architecture that made T1 great
>too bright and clear, no "mystery"
>boring, annoying robots everywhere

>>4452585


I dont like the Bank mission as well, the architecture is insane and stupid. But nevertheless its a fine mission.

I know what you are saying about the brightness but I actually like the style difference in Thief 2. Right in the beginning basso missions that mansion has such a weird vibe and atmosphere.

To me the peak of that ambiance and best Thief 2 missions is Truarts mansion which to me is unbelievably tense for some reason and Angelwatch.

Honorable mention to the Maw because I just fucking love the paranormal aspects of Thief and I cant believe those treants were a fucking thing, when I had a crt I didnt evne knew they existed, when I got jumped by one when I got my first flat screen I almost died.

All in all one of the best part of Thief is that it lets you play as your ideal kind of rogue and in the end the way you choose defines Garrett . There's some staples, like "killing is unprofessional", but the rest is up to the player.
After reading all these posts the idea of a dark fantasy Lupin who constantly ends up in fucked up situations and always gets away with it is starting to grow on me. Becoming a legend as a man rather than a shadow sounds satisfying.

I probably sound like a faggot, but I've always kinda hated how the game handled the whole "don't kill anyone" thing on expert by making me restart the level. I also fucking hated Casing the Joint because even getting seen made me restart. I dunno, It just rubs me the wrong way when a stealth game simply "game overs" because I wasn't playing perfectly.

>>4452959
The kill restriction could work in a different way I suppose. For example the debriefing screen berating you for failing an objective. Maybe even exclusive bonus content laterin the campaign that only unlocks if you complete all the Expert difficulty objectives. An extra mission that Garrett takes out of professional pride perhaps.
But Casing the Joint is a totally different deal. If Garrett were to be seen in the mansion before the exhibit, it very well may have been that the world would have ended. Gervaisius never brings his collection and Garrett never steals it, Viktoria and Garrett never figure out Karras' plan and everything dies. Casing the Joint was designed to test all players' ability to remain undetected. Not within the standard parameters of a mission, but very different ones. No loot objective at all. Very few guards and security systems. Simple objectives and optional objectives. The mission is designed to be ghostable by amateur players. Masks is a completely different mission with more classic parameters. Loot objective, a lot of security and guards, many mandatory objectives. Absolutely not designed to be ghosted by amateur players.

What textures do the lockpicks use?

>>4452990
Different anon here, but my gripe with Casing is that it feels like padding. Story-wise I get that Garret wanted to infiltrate Gervaisius manor and find that secret entrance. But we've seen Garret move into uncharted territory much less prepared and just improvising stuff as he goes along, for example, we don't see him casing the First City Bank and Trust to try to learn how the Vault security works, he just went into the Bank and learnt how the mechanism worked on the spot.
I also found the mission very boring, because I usually Ghost every level, so the difficulty took a big dip there, but as you said, it was designed to be Ghostable by an amateur player.
Masks on the other hand was one of my favorite missions in the game.

>>4453038
Well I also like the aspect of the mission that it's an unoccupied space that is simply maintained until needed, and they're at the stage of preparing for something. It's something you never see in the games. It's an eerie but comfy kind of emptiness. In other missions it's always a normal night at a mansion, or in the case of T2 not one but two aftermaths of big parties. Casing is also a change of pacing. You just came from a long dangerous journey in uncharted territory travling overseas and under the sea as well. An empty mansion with loose change lying everywhere is like a vacation after Markham's Isle and the KD Site.

Snow is finally falling irl, its time to plunder boys!

I have a soft spot for T2 because it was the one I played first so sticks with me more than TDP. Starting off in Running Interference with that rumble sound with the mansion looming in the distance...

Anywhere that has a quick run down of the plot lines for the first 3 games and how the missions run so I can get a quick rundown?

>>4452585
This, so much this! It put me off so much that i ditched T2 after life of the party and moved to T2 FMs made in classic environment of T1. It's perfect combined with quality of life changes in T2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIMzs5O3QWo
>a true 6D environment
What did he mean by this?

>>4453432
man LGS sucked at trailers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck7NY1-wDkc

>>4453458
This one always gets me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlmMu53tZw0
>NO ROCKET LAUNCHER...
Just a bunch of explosive arrows, apparently.

>>4453131
>quick run down of the plot lines for the FIRST 3 games
You'll have to be dangerously optimistic to think that Thief 4 has any chance of ever being made.

which kind of -punk is thief? people often call it steampunk, but imo it differs from steampunk in the respect that it actually IS punk, as well as the respect that it's not cringy garbage.

>>4454154
Should we tell him?

>>4454338
It's low-magic fantasy.

>>4454338

Its a mish mash of stuff that creates something new and its not really label friendly although most people call it steampunk to make it easier to describe. Unlike most stuff today which references pop culture instead of going to the source of real fucking Art.

You see film noir, german expressionism, gothic, neo classic, a bunch of ideas from various people in lgs back the probably just coalescing.

>Be FPS aficionado
>Veteran of Counter-Strike knife-fighting, renowned serverside as a 1v1 knife champion
>Years of combat maneuvering experience in all the great classics; Doom, Quake, Half-Life, Unreal tournament, Cube

>Hear talk of sword-fighting in Thief being notoriously challenging
>Assume it's just fanboys exaggerating, or that noob players are the ones at fault
>Fire up "Blackmail" in Thief 2 on Expert, with a user.cfg cheat to remove the kill restriction
>Die repeatedly in 1-on-1 sword duels starting at full health
>Struggle to ever kill more than a few guards, using full arsenal of stealth/arrows/blackjack/sword

Hats off to LGS for making Garrett a mere competent swordsman as opposed to fantasy Serious Sam. Even on Normal/Hard, getting into a sword fight is less like "Oh bother, another mook to despatch" and more like "Oh God, I better be careful". Makes for really tense moments when guards creep on closer to your hiding spot and you realize violent confrontation is imminent.

>>4454494

Are you kidding? A veteran thief player can run circles around multiple guards and kill them with the sword no problem.

Even haunts.

>>4454507
That's how I thought at first! In fact I even used to think the combat was trivially easy.

Maybe Expert makes all the difference, or perhaps I myself am ignorant of the 1337 Thief strats, but my previous conception bore no relation to my experiences just there.

>>4454514

Oh its hard anon, but not THAT hard, especially with multiple guards and archers sure.

But you can escape easily its just not as easy as today gaming standards, pick guards one by one with quick stabs, keep them stunned etc.

>>4454514
>>4454517
Just to complete this little triptych

>>4454519
Also, I'm typing sage in the options field but my name appears to be normal. Is this intended?

Payback is next on the list?
Sorry for the absence. Been busy on another board. I'll try to do it this week.

Lol anyone followind Daniel Thron on Twitter? He's going apeshit on Return of The Jedi describing how it's the worst movie even made.

>>4455056
Got a link?

>>4455056
So?

>>4455068
Oh he's merely the cutscene artist for the trilogy as well as one of the main voice actors, who has been having a successful career in VFX and cinema since then. Literally who indeed.

>>4455062
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvoE5bZMqWw&index=1&list=PLXevgN4L2qaIDCusM8uH59FPR_1Jbk_JD
>>4455068
>Not knowing who Dan Thron is
Clear outta here rogue, this is no place for you.

>>4455071
What did he do in Thief 3?

>>4455082
The cutscenes.

>>4454998
No worries. I'm not really propositive but I'm always here.
We already played Payback, The Living City is next.

>>4452990
>Maybe even exclusive bonus content laterin the campaign that only unlocks if you complete all the Expert difficulty objectives.
Why not. I was thinking about how some games do it, Mark of The Ninja and Shadow Tactics to be precise but I'm sure there's more: challenges instead of limitations. Every mission has side objectives to complete to 100% the game. It can be interesting and challenging (since most of them are adjusted around the specific level), and never forced on the player who wants to play the game as they like.
But Thief is based around the succession of missions, not replaying them until you nail them, so as you suggested giving bonuses to the meticulous thief could be a good replacement for a score. As long as it makes sense. Loot bonus if you do someone a favor, additional guard posts if you fail at going undetected through a delicate earlier mission, linked to the one you're playing.

I need an autistic fmission, hard, long, huge, retarded tasks and more. No Rocksburg

>>4455234
King's Story is perhaps the height of retarded FM design. Looks nice though.

>>4455234

Ruins of originia

>>4455261
That's no Keeper of Infinity. Now that one is 100% retarded and constantly punishes the player. It even breaks if you do things out of sequence!

>>4455279
I like Ruins of Originia. It is long and retarded but it's enjoyable.

>>4455291
I never tried Keeper of Infinity. Admittedly, I never got far into the second mission of King's Story ever. I was put off by the auto-failstate if you wander off the path through the mountains, but I dealt with it. Then I got to the part where you have to pick a tiny lock on a guard railing opposite a door, and then pick the lock on the door, and only once your through that door can you find a note that explains the bizarre lock mechanism that you just figured out by looking up a guide. Fuck that shit.

>>4455234
Boy have you come to the right place.

Golden Book campaign for T1.

>>4455308
>I like Ruins of Originia. It is long and retarded but it's enjoyable.

I love it and think it's an amazing mission, but it's pretty much impossible to beat without a walkthrough

>>4455291
>It even breaks if you do things out of sequence!
As do most things

>>4455343
The average FM maker at least makes their mission still completable if you end up doing something that wasn't planned, that's what beta testers are for — the author of Keeper of Infinity however is a retarded sperglord who thinks he's a genius and who was very happy that only about 20% of his testers even finished the missions. He has you do things in a very very specific order and if you stray from his obscure path you can't proceed forwards because you broke the fucking thing.

Just try it for kicks, it's by far and away the worst designed piece of shit I've ever played.

Anyone know if there's more good videos like these? Or like Warren Spector's GDC talk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0beVkxu--M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTRC_LHi_GA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbyTOAlhRHk

>>4455391
Not videos, but these 10 interviews with LGS peeps are well worth listening to. They cover all of LGS's games.
http://gambit.mit.edu/updates/audio/looking_glass_studios_podcast/

There's this interview with Josh Randall who did music and sound for Thief and SS2. Has some interesting bits, like the fact that Thief's main theme was inspired by DJ Shadow and that Randall himself was the reference model for Thief's cover art.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrIhMlPbhqk

And this isn't even close to what you were asking for but it's cool: a bunch of screenshots of the last game LGS was working on when they shut down, Deep Cover
http://95.31.27.16/projects/deep_cover/

>>4455409
>http://95.31.27.16/projects/deep_cover/
God why did you have to remind me this existed. It makes me so sad every time I hear about it.

>>4455409
Damn. Thanks, this is some great stuff. I was unaware of Deep Cover, too bad they didn't finish it. But at least we have NOLF and Death to Spies (and Alpha Protocol, minus the Cold War), which are somewhat similar.

>>4455432
Few more things:
Devs play System Shock 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LDiTZ89j-Q

Josh Randall's SC (not much but there's a very short unused SS2 track)
https://soundcloud.com/robotkid

Paul Neurath on the development of Ultima Underworld
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sh_DY28wl4

Mike Chrzanowski's documentation of Looking Glass's final moments
https://web.archive.org/web/20000823060800/http://members.aol.com/thief2metalage/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7tJpuluqQY
http://www.digital-eel.com/mc/may252000.htm

>>4455094
>We already played Payback
Ah, jeez. I need to pay more attention!
The Living City is not that big of an FM though.

Would you guys like an up-to-date "so you want to play some fucking thief" but a static webpage with links on it?

There's been some amazing missions that have come out since that was last updated.

>Immersive sims making a comeback

More like dead again thanks to Arkane triple A garbage.

>>4455919
Needs a total overhaul if anything. If you're gonna do a webpage then you need to do it right and sort that shit out. Linking to Rocksbourg and King's Story and Shadow of Doubt is just dumb as fuck and no new player is going to find those enjoyable without reading a guide 90% of the way.

>>4455926
it's not even a real genre

>>4455926
>One studio not making immerive sims kills immersive sims
Then what do all those other studios not doing that do to the genre?

>>4455926
Prey was decent, don't be gay.

Arx Fatalis 2 never ever because it'd directly compete with Elder Scrolls. RIP.

>>4455409
>>4455457
Here's also some gameplay with commentary from some of the devs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHITDn2qnhg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AcmmDeJS1k

>>4455926
Immersive sims were never alive, they are too expensive to make, so why would they do them if they could just make a new shooter with nice graphics.
And Prey was good, Dishonored, too, if only there weren't so many easy-mode skills.

>>4455919
the version I have seems to recommend the shittiest thinkable FMs (i.e. Power of Suggestion, Memebourg, etc).

>>4456042
Immersive sims would be cheaper to make if everyone didn't insist on the continuous increase in graphical fidelity with absolutely no intention of paying more for a product that costs more to produce.

>>4456080
Definitely true, but you can't expect too see that from games published by Bethesda or Square Enix.

>>4456078
There's two images of FMs that are posted and they are both a total mixed bag. Autistic pixel hunts that look pretty + a few FMs that are playable without a walkthrough. We need a new one without the garbage that will turn people off of FMs because they can't do anything without reading where the next key is hidden on ttlg.

>>4437835
Dillhole.
>>4455919
Tfixlite instead of Tfix?
Let me repost this from the previous thread:
>What can be said about Thief 1, and to an extent about Thief 2, is that you take on many roles that fall under the concept 'thief': a burglar, a grave robber, a tomb raider and a spy. I believe you said before that these FM lists had a bias towards city missions (Burglar), so what if you select a couple of FM's that complement other roles of a thief? Instead of listing the pros and cons of each FM yourself, ask the (new) player a couple of questions. Did you have a sense of mystery? Did you like the puzzles? Do you like the portrayal of The City? To get the conversation starting. Also, what about the FMs that are important in the history of the thief community, like Gathering at the Bar (http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49748)?

>>4456089
Power of Suggestion isn't even pretty. it's an ugly mission with shitty design. tiny levers aren't enough here, instead you have to hit a tiny button that you only know the general location of with an arrow from far away. the darkness prevents you from seeing your own arrow's trajectory, so you can't even adjust your aim.

>>4456101
Yeah, it's fucking ass. I had to open it in FMSel to actually see which one that was and I was instantly reminded.

The way I lined up for the button was by firing multiple water arrows up there and using the splashes to align myself, it's way easier that way. Still a fucking dumb mission with a bunch of dumb bullshit in it.

>>4456042
Phantom Pain is more fucking immersive sim than either of those two.

>>4456092
Why would you remove the filtering? Sure it looks better on high resolutions like Hexen 2 but fucks up the shadows.

>>4456136
That's some strange anti-fanboyism you have for Arkane there. Prey is literally System Shock 2 with shittier enemies and less weapon variety, Dishonored is literally a Deus Ex-like with more vertical level design (ala Thief).

>>4456136
That game is crap.

>>4456141
That is why I hate them.

No Arkane you are fucking not LGS.

>>4456145
I mean that's fine and all but they are not wholly bad games and they definitely are more immersive sim than phantom pain. They are decent, they just don't match up to the classics because Arkane unfortunately are tied to Zenimax/Bethesda shareholders and they demand profits (that Arkane have seemingly failed to meet with Dishonored 2/Dishonored 3 & Prey), Dishonored 1's success was a fluke and it let Arkane make a few more decent games at least.

>>4456147
No matter, they are dead now, Raphael left.

And Harvey Smith is retard of the highest order.

>>4456138
I posted the image, because there are three images floating around on how to play thief.

>>4456148
when is Raphael gonna join Otherside tho

>>4456157
No time for shitty indie studios, pizza is his life now.

I disagree on The Power of Suggestion, I think it's one of the best FMs out there.

>>4456182
Are you the chump with no standards that made the recommendations list?

>>4456182
it's not just the gameplay that's lacking. the map itself is also very bland and boring visually. the buildings are just square boxes standing in neat rows. you could argue that this is how dayport is supposed to look, but really, literally every other dayport FM (as well as Party) looks more interesting.

>>4456187
No.

>>4456192
I disagree. I had tons of fun exploring the largely interconnected cityscape which actually has you think for yourself a bit to reach some areas. Also LOTP looks better than this? Really? The Power of Suggestion has a lot more detail to it.

>>4456182
kek

>>4456201
Jesus, I'm no Thief 2 fanboy but that is reaching to say that PoS (Piece of Shit) is more detailed than LotP.

>>4456207
Have you played LOTP recently? I guarantee you The Power of Suggestion has a lot more detail to it than LOTP.

>>4456212
Ok so the guy put some air brushes in a few extra window frames and slapped a texture on it.


Power of Suggestion is fucking tons of long alleys and completely square buildings that are a block wide and have 1 door on them each with a handful of rooms inside and then you go through a sewer into the next area which is exactly the same, then you get a key and get into the next area which is exactly the same, then you mantle up some stuff and get onto a roof and have to get the stars to align to hit some fucking stupid button on an antenna.

The map is literally just cube brushes copypasted over and over with gated level design, Bafford's Manor has more complexity to its level design.

>>4456215
>Ok so the guy put some air brushes in a few extra window frames and slapped a texture on it.

Even if that was all he had done (it's not) it's still more detailed than LOTP, so your earlier argument is bullshit. LOTP is mostly squarish too. I didn't see you complain about that. Maybe that's the style the author was going for?

Can you show me exactly where that button on the antenna touched you? You seem to be super upset. God forbid there is a slightly more difficult than average section in a mission that puts you out of your comfort zone, and even then it's not that hard adjusting your shots by using water arrows. Did you cry in Undercover when you had to get out of the temple with the alarm ringing?

The level design is gated only at the start, where there is only one way you can go. Once you get to the other side of the water tunnel you're free to go anywhere you want.

Some of you guys are champions in bad faith. If you hate a well crafted and thoroughly enjoyable mission like The Power of Suggestion, I dread to imagine what your favorite FMs are.

>>4456225
t. uncadonego

>>4456201
it's also fucked up from a storytlling point of view. it was a while since I played it, so I might remember a few things wrong, but from what I remember it went like this:

you escape from captivity, and exit into dayport. your only objective is to find out more about the people who captured you, and you'll do that by thoroughly exploring the entire neighbourhood EXCEPT the building you just ecaped from. at this point, you have no lead at all.

then you break into some random flat, and in that flat you find a readable that informs you about the secret button on the roof. at this point there's nothing that tells you that this button is connected to the guys you escaped from. and there's nothing that connects the flat you broke into to those guys either. you only entered the flat because it happened to be in your way, not because you followed a lead from your captors.

at this point, the building with the button on the roof is just some random building with no connection to your objectives. you find some readables that hint toward the real plot, but there's nothing that suggests that this has anything to do with your mission. then, when you finally manage to hit the button, the mission suddenly progresses rapidly, the plot is revealed and you soon finish the mission after that.

my point is, all you've done in the mission is break into random buildings with seemingly no connection to your objective. and then towards the end, it just conveniently turns out that at least half of them were related to the guys you escaped from in some way. this makes sense within the internal context of the FM: when you explore an area in a video game, you expect the stuff to be related to the game's narrative, right? but it doesn't make sense when you explore a real world city.

I'm sorry if I misremembered some details, but I'm sure my main point still stands.

>>4456227
I'm not him and I don't even like most of his missions, but The Power of Suggestion is excellent.

>>4456230
That's because the person who conducts the experiment does it on several people in the neighborhood and has her underlings scattered around to observe it, and they captured you to try it on you as well. What you describe pretty much appears in every mission, even the OMs.

I don't know if many people play FMs for the story, though. You guys routinely shit on everything that gets released so I imagine story in FMs is the least of your problems.

>>4456238
I don't give a fuck about the story, but the main narrative of the mission has to make sense. if your "true objective" unfolds during play, it must happen in a believable way. it must feel like you've actually done real detective work and found valuable knowledge, not like you just stumbled upon the truth after breaking into some random flat.

>>4455231
I think Down the Bonehoard really did the difficulty correctly. Unlocking extra areas with different challenges depending on the difficulty was brilliant, imo. It rewards players who put in the effort to play the game on the hardest difficulty setting, and it also doesn't overwhelm the player who just wants to breeze through the game. I really would have liked to see that implemented more often

>you will never be a brother at a comfy Hammerite cathedral

>>4456250
does any FM feature hammerites with welding suits? T1's standard low-poly guard model should work well if you change the textures.

>>4456240
That's all find and dandy, but you find out the truth in two locations: first in the building with the antenna, which so happens to be the building that holds the device's mechanism in the first place. It's not a random building at all. And second in the boss' chambers which is the very end of the mission. Again, not a random building at all.

The readable talking about the antenna and shooting in its direction is also a report from an unrelated person to another unrelated person. I don't see what's so outlandish about that? It's a clue for you. One of these people heard someone had seen a guy shooting in the direction of the antenna and that's about it. There are no specific instructions for you to do it. This is perfectly fine to me.

>>4456245
The only FM I know that does it to this extent and beyond is Hidden Agenda. Heist Society by the same author also has drastic differences depending on the difficulty, but not to the level of Hidden Agenda.

>spend forever trying to get a door open that didn't want to open wide enough to let me in in the wizard's tower level
>there was a cup on the ground that I missed because too dark

So this is the Dark Souls of Stealth games right?

>>4456490
Its the Castlevania of stealth games.

>>4456690
But Castevania is Dark Souls of Metroidvania.

>>4456931
But Dark Souls is the Ghosts 'n' Goblins of Metroidvania.

playing through Thief 1 for the first time
The Lost City makes me want to rip my hair out, I shouldn't have chose to play on expert

>make it all the way to the talisman
>assume that gap in the wall across the lava is a shortcut back but I don't take it because I missed a Keeper emblem
>backtrack until I find the emblem
>head back to the talisman tower to take that shortcut
>it's not a shortcut, any attempt to get across just kills me
>need to back track AGAIN through the whole level

why put a path that connects the very start of the level and the very end if you don't add in a way to cross that path from the end side
the "escape" objectives in this game are tedious as hell
the only way they could have made this objective worse was if they gave me another fucking unconscious body to carry back

Just finished lost city, does the low poly style and placement of all the buildings remind anyone of the town in wet dry world in Mario 64, feel like thief is an extension of that town with its own mechanics built around it

>>4458058

I love the feeling of isolation and exploration the glowing lamps.

And I have not played Mario since the 16bit era.

>>4458045

you can make the jump by climbing on top of the tower and bunny hopping across or just using a speed potion

What make Chalice of Souls so good?
It's my favorite fan-mission so far!

>>4458096
well shit, too late now
figuring that out would have saved me a bit of headache

so far my ranking of levels is
The Sword > Assassins > The Mage Towers > The Haunted Cathedral > The Lost City > Thieves' Guild > Bonehoard > Bafford's Manor > Cragscleft Prison

>>4458098
It's very good but I really think the double bookcase switch to open the sewer access key vault should've been better hinted at. I'm also not a fan of the second mission, it looks nice but the layout is rather wide open and boring.

>>4458105
Dont worry everybody forgets speed potions jumping potential the first time.


Also come on Cragscleft Prison trumps the mage towers easily on either level design or atmosphere.

>>4458098

Look at this shit. Low poly heaven.
Someone needs to revamp the original levels one day with teh same autistic care.

>>4458105
If you ever get around to a second playthrough you will realize how out of order that list is.

>>4439571
Was not expecting fucking spiders when I played this game. Those gross screeching sounds that fantasy games use for spiders always give me the fuckin creeps.

Either way really enjoying this game. The levels are wide open, it allows you to troll the fuck out of your enemies and even though it does feel like the story was conceived by a fedora tipping edgelord, it does have a nice atmosphere to it.

Much better than the first game that's for sure.

>>4458303
>Much better than the first game that's for sure.
You won't say that in a few years.

>>4454517
The main thing is to keep the blackjack equipped so you can move faster, then find a nice set of stairs or a ledge to jump around to confuse the guard, soften them up with the black jack by going around them and hitting them in the back, then finish them off with the sword once they are dazed. I know it's kind of taking advantage of the AI but it's also exactly what a thief would do in combat.

>>4458307
why not? give me a rundown. I tried the first game but didn't like the "muh zombies" shit so I stopped playing it. I picked this one up because I remember playing the shit out of the demo that came with my Tomb Raider game when I was 10, and I'm about 6 missions in and loving it.

>>4458315
Because taste improves with age.

Thief 1 is a much more balanced and with a more cohesive story than 2.

>>4458315
Cause Thief 1/Gold is a much better game and has been vindicated by history in recent years. Thief 2 was produced the way it is because of knee-jerk reactions about "muh zombies" and "muh tombs" which resulted in a sequel that stripped most of the first game's atmosphere and anguish.

Thief 2 is also a very samey game with very often the same premises and opponents while Thief 1/Gold keeps things fresh by being rather unpredictable and varying opponents ans situations frequently.

>>4458323
Thief 1 had a cohesive story from a pretty early point in development and the missions were all designed to support that story. Thief 2 only had a basic outline of major plot points and the final story was written around the missions that were made with gameplay as the absolute main focus.

>>4458329
>>4458340

I find recently that people have a hard time recognizing the balanced aspects and supernatural elements of Thief 1.

The supernatural creates a different play style and gameplay inversion that enhances the urban and more Thief style stealth element.

Thief 2 still has some of it in the return to the maw which I love thematically, but even Thief 3 is a game trying to find the dark project balance.

>>4458329
got it. I'll make sure to give it another go after I finish Thief 2. Kind of sounds like the situation with Fallout 1 and 2.

>>4458352
Yeah, it's similar to the Fallout 1 and 2 situation indeed. Don't get me wrong though, I sound negative with Thief 2 but it's still an incredible game. It's just that Thief 1/Gold is a lot better.

>>4458315
Because the ""muh zombies" shit" is literally part of the reason why Thief 1 is a godlike game with a gritty grimdark fantasy atmosphere and setting. It's a game about a Thief (in the D&D sense of the class name) in a story that takes him through every aspect of thievery (burglary, tomb raiding, grave digging, disguise & deception, etc.) in one way or another.

Thief 2 is neutered with a lot more of a victorian-era style and loses out a ton on gameplay variety and the maturity of the setting as a result.

The proof is usually in people that have played Thief 1 & 2 multiple times, like myself. The first time I played Thief 1 I was one of those kneejerk idiots who enjoyed Thief 2 a lot more (thankfully I never played T1 when it came out so there was no I could have influenced the negativity towards it that made T2 what it was, so no regrets to be had there), I played Thief 2 and loved it. Every few years I went back and played them again until I had beaten Thief 1 like 8x and Thief 2 only 3x (with a bunch of 1/3-2/3 playthroughs).

Thief 1 keeps me coming back because its gameplay variety is unmatched by Thief 2. Every time I try to play Thief 2 now I get bored before it gets to the good parts (around the middle of the game) or I finish the good part and don't bother with the poor quality of the later missions (Kidnap & onwards). Thief 2's start & end are both extremely varied in quality compared to Thief 1's consistent mystery and good gameplay throughout.

Thief 1 stands the test of time as this classic experience with so much more to offer than its sequel and has persevered through the years of people shitting on it for its supernatural elements that add this unique flavor you can't find anywhere else. It never became the "hurr kill the zambies" thing that people complain about it being, you were always a super fragile Thief where one wrong move could mean your end, even in the supernatural levels, and that gives it a unique survival horror aspect.

http://www.lytha.com/thief/survey/thc.html
>It correlates relatively high with the rating for the most non enjoyable mission (.17 **).
>That means: The people who gave the most non enjoyable mission a really bad rating, did not like THC.
>I have already analysed the group of people who rated the least preferred mission low in Training. No need to do it again (But they were in a short and harsh summary kiddies.)
>So, people who liked this mission were most probably mot very young. And they enjoyed the entire game more

http://www.lytha.com/thief/survey/rtc.html
>People who preferred the normal difficulty mode gave 'RTC' a lower score
>The preferred difficulty correlates with the number of times played (.19 **) (the more times played, the higher the preferred difficulty mode) and - most interesting! - with the education (-21 **) (the higher the educational level, the higher the preferred difficulty mode!)
>'RTC' correlates also highly with the number of times played (-.15 *) (the higher the number of times played the higher the rating for 'RTC').
>Now, a short analysis of the people who enjoyed 'RTC':
>They played the game many times. They had a high educational level. They gave the least preferred mission a good score. They, dear interested reader, could indeed be the people who replay the game for several times, and who enjoyed the entire game really much.

TLDR: undead haters are generally uneducated and/or underage, play the game on normal difficulty mode, and give exaggeratedly low scores to missions they don't like.

lytha doesn't mention it explicitly, but it wouldn't surprise me if undead haters also tend to play the game like an action game by killing everyone they encounter.

>>4458367
That explains a lot desu.

>>4458367
>Rowena's dead
>Lytha's last video is 6 years old, about recovering from surgery
There's a Thief fangrill curse.

>>4458408
There's also another female FM author who died this year (though she only made two minor, obscure missions).

Thief 1 introduces:
>1. Human melee (guard, hammer)
>2. Human archer
>3. Human civilian (servants, etc.)
>4. Human caster (mages, hammer priests)
>5. Zombies (slow melee, easy to dodge, can't kill without fire/holy water/flash bombs)
>6. Haunts (fast melee, undead-type AI)
>7. Ghosts/Fire Shadows (caster, undead-type AI)
>8. Pagan apebeasts (melee, beast/humanoid-type AI)
>9. Burricks (slow caster, beast-type AI)
>10. Craymen (melee, beast-type AI)
>11. Elemental (caster, freedom of movement beast-type AI)
>12. Bugbeasts (caster, beast-type AI)
>13. Small Spiders (melee-only, jump around the place)
>14. Large Spiders (can shoot at you and trap you in webs)
>15. Cragscleft Hammer periscope cameras (can be disabled with a broadhead arrow, show up very rarely)
>16. Frogbeasts (beast-type that jumps at you and self-destructs)

Thief 2 removes everything from 5 to 15 in all but a few instances (spiders found in a few places, haunt found in one place, zombies found in a couple of places, (non-hostile) ghosts found in a couple of places, etc.)

Introduces:
>1. Spider robot that shoots at you (acts like spider, also rarely seen)
>2. Small robot that runs from you and alerts people
>3. Large robot that shoots at you
>4. Mechanists cameras replace Cragscleft periscopes and are much more plentiful, can't disable them with a broadhead
>5. Mechanist auto turrets that shoot you when camera/alarms go off
>6. Ranged blowdart apebeasts
>7. Treebeast (very fast melee, heavy hitter beast-type)
>8. Guards/Divers with heavy helmets (can't blackjack them)

>>4458437
Err, shoulda reformatted that list. 6-16 with Pagan apebeasts above Zombies.

Oh zowie, another Thief 1 vs Thief 2 debate.
Can't have a thief thread without tiresome and endless debates!

>>4458456
You know both games are great when people think this or that game is the best.

How is this game?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUdTsd-OJ0M

>>4458456
it's not a T1 vs T2 debate. it's more like a "was T1 bad because it featured supernatural themes" debate.

The only reason it ever turns into "T1 is better than T2" is because of years of people saying to skip T1 and only play T2, which has got to be the most retarded opinion on the internet.

>>4458460
This. Once I saw someone say "gta 5 is shit". This proved to me that GTA 5 was a great game, because if even the contrarian, reactionary dullards of /v/ generally think gta 5 was good, and an opinion to the contrary has to be announced instead of being assumed as the consensus, then you know it's a fringe lunatic.

never played any of the Thief games. where do i start, /vr/?

>>4459225
The same way you start any new series. The very first game.

>>4459227
it was more along the lines of asking if there are any garbage ones not worth touching

>>4459232
Stay the fuck away from the 2014 reboot.

>>4458367
>>4458469
My problem with Thief 1 wasnt so much the supernatural theme. I just prefer level design that gives a feeling of place. I was fine with the beginning area of Cragscleft, and the entirety of The Haunted Cathedral levels, as they were clearly abandoned locations that are now haunted. Where as I couldn't stand Bonehoard, Lost City, or Maw of Chaos, as they felt more generic and bland.

>>4459232
Dont play the 2014 one at all.
Wait until you've played the first two before delving into Deadly Shadows

>>4459339
This. DS is pretty good though when you patch it up with fan patches. On release I still liked it, but it suffered a pretty bad case of consolitis for it's time. Stands up better now with mods/patches.

>>4459336
>Bonehoard
>generic
How the fuck you gonna call one of the best dungeons of all time "generic"

>>4456092
Wish there was a way to remove texture filtering without fucking with the shadows...

I've searched the entire place and can't figure out how to open these
am I just retarded

>>4459385
>one of the best dungeons of all time

>>4459423
>am I retarded
yes

>>4459489
you're right I just read through all the scrolls in my inventory and it seems I picked one up at some point describing how to open it
I kept thinking I had to do something with that hammer I took from the high priest's room

>>4459504

the hammer extends that red bridge you're standing on

>>4459504
>am i retarded
Next time ask handyman for assistance!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=261&v=hkQQGsOegv0

How do I introduce a friend to Thief?
I am scared he will be spooked by the controls and quit rather than spend some time rebinding them.

>>4460407
Its easy introduce him to cragscleft prision mission right away.

>>4460407
can't you export key bindings from thief? try giving him your own bindings.