/vr/ - Retro Games

>>4440560
It's good though I think the genre is varied enough to the point that you can find equally good games just in different ways.

I like Vampire Savior a lot for example. But, while I see its merits and why others enjoy it, I'm not a big fan of the Marvel vs style of gameplay.

>>4440560
Thoughts on Ultra Street Fighter II? Is it in any way a step back from Super?

Honestly Jojo is the best, not memeing

>>4440918

The game's biggest problem by a long shot is that it's on the Switch.

It removes random elements from the game, introduces throw teching, makes it easy to do specials as reversals, removes old versions of characters, rebalances current versions, slowed the game down well below community standards, and two new characters who are only weaker than Shin Akuma. Some people don't like that it is based on the HDR build of the game, including HDR backgrounds.

To be totally honest, I've only played it ten minutes before getting bored because I didn't want to play on pad, but I guess that just goes to show how uninteresting I thought the game was in the first place. The removal of random elements is great, but the rest is questionable. They shouldn't make reversal upper easy to do AND make throws techable, the game only needs one of those things if anything.

>>4440950
Way too unbalanced even for casual gameplay. But I'll give you that it's fun

>>4440959
If I get it, I'll be turning the graphics to classic mode.
You mention lots of things unfamiliar to me; random elements? old versions of characters?

Ultimately I don't pan to play online, just with friends with couch multiplayer, and see it as an alternative to SFIIT on virtual console for example

>>4440975
Not the same guy, but the 90's SFII iterations have a somewhat randomized damage and stun damage output for moves. It's probably the worst aspect of the games and not something that has been emulated in other games of the genre afterwards

And yes, you can play as some older iterations of characters in Super Turbo that don't have a Super but inputting some codes. Of these, Old Sagat is particularly infamous for being powerful

>>4440975

ST was the fifth version of SF2, the roster's balance is unique to ST, but you can input codes to play the fourth version of characters instead, from SSF2. SSF2 versions were very different because they generally had fewer moves, couldn't tech throws, but might have had special advantages. The 25th anniversary Street Fighter tournament's ST champ used Old Ryu because, despite fewer normal moves and no super move, Old Ryu's special moves are better. It just gave the game variety.

All versions of SF2 besides USF2 have random modifiers attached to damage and stun. This means sometimes moves can cause dizzy in one hit and sometimes they won't dizzy after three hits while somehow wiping out all of your opponent's life. The input timings on some combos can also be randomly altered (called cancel combos) because Capcom thought this would be "fun", so people only did simple combos most of the time. Nobody thinks this is a good thing but fans of SF2 have just learned to not care about the problem because they love the game.

>>4440959
I find it fascinating that they used the sprites from HD Remix. I was under the impression that Capcom was trying to disown/distance themselves from HD Remix since it was made by wide-eyed gaijins and was never even available for download in Japan. Then again, Ultra SF2 feels so cheaply-made anyway, like all post-Super Turbo iterations of SF2.

>>4441007
One other thing I dislike about these games is the slowdown when using some moves making it harder to input other moves afterwards, messing with your timings n shi

Still overall fun for the first of this style of fighter

>>4440882
Vampire Savior is an amazing game.
Easily on my top 5 fighting games

>>4441019
I’m not a fan of the HD sprites, but my understanding is that you can turn them off, right?

>>4441087
My top 3 are probably that, Third Strike and Garou MotW. But I enjoy a lot of games since this is my favorite multiplayer genre

I can acknowledge its significance for the time, and it is the 3rd best selling game of all time, but I honestly disagree. It hasn't aged incredibly well, and with further iterations (Street Fighter 3!), it's really begun to show its lack of balance and clunkiness.

My personal favorite though would have to be Capcom vs Snk 2, tons of characters and control styles (grooves), as well as an overly-excited announcer and energetic soundtrack. Good shit

>>4440992
why is ce bison so much better?

>>4441380
But SF3 is not particularly known as a balanced series of iterations either. At all

>>4440560
But that's not Tekken 4.

>>4441402
Retro?

>>4441420
It's 15 years old; just starting to drive. But if you want an older title, then it'd be Tekken 3. And if Tekken isn't to your liking, then I'd suggest either Samurai Shodown or KoF '95.

>>4441424
why '95 over '98

Someone call me?

>>4441454
Indeed, but >>4441424 somehow prefers '95

>>4441454
This is the correct choice, and yes I am mexican
To be honest I never liked fighting games, I only played Metal Slug and other stuff
But KoF 98 will always have an space in my heart

>>4440560
Either that, KOF 98, or Ultra 4.

>>4440560
it's certainly the best fighting game POSTER ever made

>>4440882
Found the casual. That game is only appealing aesthetically. I bet your other favorite fighting games are Capcom Jojo and 3rd strike.

>>4440918
It's a step back from Super and Super Turbo.

>>4440950
Typical jojobrony.

>>4440959
Ultra SF2 is not ST. ST is an arcadegame.

>>4440975
You're so casual those details won't matter to you at all.

>>4440992
>And yes, you can play as some older iterations of characters in Super Turbo
Every character has an old version besides Akuma. Most of them just aren't used.

>>4441193
You almost have every FG casuals claim to love, you just forgot Jojo and CvS2.

>>4441380
SF3 is a completely different game with completely different mechanics. This thread is specifically about Super Turbo not whatever SNES port you played with your brother when you were five.

>>4441387
CE Bison is not in ST. Old Bison is and he's terrible compared to the ST version. Hyper SF2 the Anniversary Edition allows you to select CE Bison and he's the best character in the game barring Akuma. Great normals, huge chip and damage on psycho crusher, PC randomly can be a cross up on opponent's wake up, infinite block strings, etc.

>>4441424
Comparing 2d to 3d fighting games is apples and oranges.

>>4441454
Clunky and delayed inputs. 2002 is better.

>>4442037
Damn you're cool as FUCK bro. I bet you get so many girls every time you go 25-0 at the local meetup

>>4440560
good game, but I enjoy virtua fighter more. Its one of the few fighting games with a 3d arena

>>4440560
Also I like to play power stone more

>>4442037
Since you seem to know your SF2, is there anything particularly wrong with Hyper SF2 that make people prefer Super T over it?

>>4442037
>KoF '98 is clunky

Ohh /vr/, I've missed your fighting game troll threads.

>>4440560
Cammy isn't in it so I don't give a fuck.

Also Skullgirls is the best.

>>4442250
>Cammy isn't in Super Turbo
>Skullgirls is best

>/vr/ on fighting games

>>4442037
No, I don't play for aesthetic crap, I like the gameplay mechanics on those. Maybe I'm not a tournament elite or something but c'mon

About Vampire Savior I like the sense of speed of the game, feels very smooth. How it rewards fast matches.

Third Strike and Garou MotW I feel are very solid, I enjoy the parry / just defend mechanic (wow so casual. Though I also like games without, it's about spicing things up) and moveset of the roster

I also like the games you mention, the ones you like and dislike (except maybe JJBA 'cause as I said it's too unbalanced)

Calm thine mammaries, sire

>>4442037
>KoF2k2 is better
JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA

>>4442306
Pssssst.... he's just trolling

>>4442037
>Both games are fighting games.
>But comparing them is wrong since they're sooo different.

>>4442325
Dunno, man. I've been accused of trolling when I was expressing my true opinion here on /vr/ before

Anyway, sad that we don't see much discussion here without trolls if that's the case

>>4442327
They are different styles or subgenres, play quite a bit different. Haven't you seen how autistic people get over the "Smash isn't a fighting game", too?

>>4442316
Hey buddy, I want to get more into KoF and I'm choosing between 98 and 02. Why would you say 98 is better? I'm leaning more towards that one but since I'm not an expert I'm not sure

>>4442153
I guess some of the older iterations like WW Guile, dunno

>>4442250
The underage is strong lol

>>4442346
OP implied that SSF2T was the best fighting game ever made; not the best Capcom fighter, not the best 2D fighter, but the best fighting game period. It doesn't matter if the game is 2D or 3D. I'm not sure what you're missing here.

>>4442370
You've got a point. Then in that case it's more a problem with OP's premise since it's hard to compare this variety of fighting games

>>4442346
2k2 is a ugly, unbalanced mess of a game, if you want to play it, go for the updated 2002UM, it's on PS2 and PC.
98 also has a UM version, but both games are great on it's own, and if you're a newcomer to KoF, start with 98 since it has a solid roster and mechanics.

>>4442378
Could you go a bit deeper about the "unbalanced" part?

Do you mean overpowered/underpowered characters, too many cheap combos, bugs or something?

How does 98 avoid this to a larger degree?

>>4442376
It essentially boils down to what an individual prefers since a lot of quality fighting games were being released during that period. SSF2T is a fun game, but is easily eclipsed by so many different titles that released later down the line.

>>4442386
I also find it pretty funny that this edgy guy calls other casuals for their tastes while preferring a game with occasional huge swings due to damage, combo and stun RNG

>>4440560

Sorry OP, that would be me.

>>4442432
Not an expert AT ALL, but from what little I've played of Tekken 3 and the series I've always felt as if they are a bigger "rock, paper, scissor" than the Capcom style ones due to its block system. I also felt VERY slow while playing

>>4442462

Cool.

It's still lots of fun though. SF2 would be my second favorite fighting game though.

>>4442383
What you said pretty much sums up 2002.
Angel is fucking ridiculous.

>>4442545
Angel is a difficult character so back in the day the execution ceiling kinda balanced her out. Of course this is irrelevant with youtube and every kid ever having easy tutorials on how to do all her infinites

I always had a soft spot for the first two Samurai Shodown games, especially the 2nd one. Not sure why the series felled in popularity after II though. I remember not liking III or IV that much and never bothered with the series after that. ( did played Samsho 64 once though (is it even emulated).

>>4442561
3 sucked because the new roster was ass.
4 fixed that to a degree, and 5SP is cool.
I felt the series went way too anime after II, look at later characters like Iroha or Mina for example.

>>4442545
But doesn't 98 have imbalance as well?

>>4442582
All KoF games are unbalanced (well that's common in fighting games), is just that 2k2 is worse at that.

>>4442591
Ok, thanks for your input

One of the harder aspects for me in this series and the reason I haven't gotten into it as of yet is that I feel having to at least learn 3 characters is quite a huge wall for a beginner

>>4442597
You can play 1v1, but really learning every character is important because even when you're not playing as them you have to know how to play against them. So in that sense 3on3 will speed it up. But on the other hand KoF has many more characters than an average fighter.

That's why Mark of the Wolves is so popular. SNK style but with simple command inputs and a small roster so it's easy to learn.

>>4442037
Hey cee, pull any rad new BMX tricks lately?

>>4442726
To be fair it has a different flavor with the Just Defend stuff. I see it more like a SNK's SFIII (which also made commant inputs easier, coincidence?)

>>4442769
Yeah there's that too. It's a little like SNK:easymode, but that's still what some want which is cool.

>>4442775
Would you say KoF'98 is SNK's finest? Of all time or just retro?

>>4440560

Although an amazing game, ST is not Street Fighter 2. Tech throws, supers and cps2 game engine makes it an entire different game when compared to it's cps1 counter part.

Hyper Fighting was the peak of Sf2 and is also a much more complicated game despite it's simplicity. It is arguably the most balanced Sf2 ever made.

I enjoy and play both religiously, but Hyper Fighting will always be better version imo. Comebacks haves to be earned in HF and you can't rely on a the damage inflicted by a super(boxer's being the most notorious).

>>4442432
tekken suuucks! Style over substance! Shitty hitboxes and flavour animations that serve no purpose and a character roaster ´too big to ballance just made to sell to all the wannabees... tekken is for people who eat candy for lunch

>>4442940
I also play Hyper Fighting from time to time due to what you say. I've always hated super moves / meters and stuff like unnecessarily long combos in some later games.

If only HF didn't have RNG and slowdown after some inputs I almost wouldn't even touch other fighting games

>>4442037
>It's a step back from Super and Super Turbo.
Care to go a little deeper here? I suspect it will come back to
>You're so casual those details won't matter to you at all.
Still interested in your thoughts

>>4442940
>>4443089
Can Ultra be set up to play like Turbo HF?

>>4443460
No idea, don't own a Switch and probably never will

Do you know of any other good fighting games without meter and super moves?

>>4443494
Weaponlord.

>>4443494
Ranma 1/2 Chougi ranbu hen
Sailor Moon S

>>4440560
The hacked SF2 Champions Editions were always my fave in the arcade. They were insane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp5PwdiniRk

>>4443542
That Sagat is too nasty to exist (as if some official iterations of that character weren't almost that)

Though thanks to these cheesy bootlegs we have Hyper Fighting, so props

>>4443460

No it cannot.

>>4443559

They got a bit silly with the projectile spam in some of them, but yeah special moves being performed in the air came from the hax now they are just part of the game.

>>4440560
Pretty close. ST is fantastic but 3s is the best fighting game of all time and still is the best competitive fighting game played today.

>>4440560
It is just best 16bit fighting game only.

Best DBZ fighting game coming through.
Hyper Dimension close 2nd.

Anyone remember these obscure fighting games:
Clay Fighter 1&2, and Brutal: Paws Of Fury?

>>4443850
Is there really any Dragon Ball retro game that is good ?

I mean, unless you're very interested in the anime, I found the games interesting or any good

>>4444182
Hyper Dimension is the best IMO. The RPG for snes that got translated is pretty good too along with Legends.

I grew up in arcades slapping quarters on glass all day. Even snagged up a few full size for my one day home arcade.

>>4444256
your console is haunted by the ghost of a bald man

>>4443504
good point

>>4444256
did you do the art on the vf machine yourself?

>>4442956

>>4444330
You've never seen a Virtua Fighter cabinet before?

>>4444397
Why is Akira a muslim?

>>4444813
He's a rejected character named Shiba that they forgot edit out from the cabinet art.

you all stfu, bloody roar 2 playstation + anyancelpoint the best

>>4444852
Sure if you like getting pummeled with if-I-touch-you-you're-dead infinite combos.

>How to beat the computer easily in Super Turbo?

I started playing seriously Super Turbo today and almost 1cc'd it at my first try, despite the horribly strong CPU.

The AI can't resist E. Honda's headbutt. Do it again and again and again until you win. You'll destroy non-fireball characters easily with this unique move (Bison-Dictator is especially comical as you can double perfect him just with spamming headbutts when he tries to get up).

Fireball characters are slightly harder, thus you'll have to mix up headbutts and buttdrops. That's it. Crouch, mostly spam these special attacks, and you're good against everyone. The harder opponent will be Vega-Claw as he's very fast; you'll have to diversify slightly instead of headbutting like a madman. All the other characters are just dummies.

>>4445338
That's the thing with playing the AI in fighting games, if you play it legit the way it was intended you will get bodied, but if you spam an exploitable move over and over again the CPU becomes your bitch.

Only people from USA think SF series are the best fighting game series because they have Crapcom dick shoved up to their brains.

You guys have absolutely no taste at all, and probably 90% of you havent been in an arcade in your life. Please stop posting.

>>4445338
I was once able to beat 98 Omega Rugal by spamming throws at the corner and I'm NOT good at these games.

>>4445346
what a badass

>>4445346
Haha you sure showed them, lacks a 56% reference though

>>4445346
What are your favorites, anon? I'm interested. And if you can say why they are better than SF at its best for you, then even better.

Not trolling, genuinely interested. I like getting to know different tastes, it can open my mind.

>>4445393
Mortal Kombat.

>>4442940
Hyper Fighting was just pointless, it was made JUST for the sake of fighting the taiwanese hacks like Rainbow Edition, and Super Vanilla was just a tech demo of Super Turbo anyways mostly cause they needed to have an SF to fight MK2 and Fatal Fury Special as well as Samurai Showdown.

The series might as well would have stopped at CE.

>>4445416
what's with these dumbass simplifications, in the other thread we had someone saying MSHvsSF was made solely because of norimaro

>>4443542
the color palettes and the scores look quite neat on this one.

>>4445413
This is the weakest bait I've seen in my life

>>4442940
I find it fascinating that Hyper Fighting is the most worshipped out of all five vintage SF2 versions in America, but the Japanese never cared much for it. It was the only one without a Gamest guide published for it and it didn't get as many home ports in its day as Champion Edition did (which was released for PC Engine and X68k). The only reason the SNES and Genesis got Hyper Fighting in the forms of Turbo and Special Champion Edition was because those consoles were actually popular in the U.S. and even then they still threw in Champion Edition modes for both games.

>>4445416
>Super Vanilla was just a tech demo of Super Turbo anyways mostly cause they needed to have an SF to fight MK2 and Fatal Fury Special as well as Samurai Showdown.
Pretty Super Turbo was made in response to the lack of turbo speed ans super moves in New Challengers

>>4445446
Is there a reason SNES never got Super Turbo? Is there a ROMhack for it?
Or a ROMhack that fixes the compressed sound of the SNES version of Super?

>>4445460
>Is there a reason SNES never got Super Turbo?
Declining sales, probably.

>>4445460
>Is there a reason SNES never got Super Turbo?
It came out in the arcades just when the 32-bit consoles were starting to come out, so I'm guessing Capcom decided to focus more on those than on the aging 16-bit consoles. The only console port of Super Turbo for a while was the 3DO version.

>>4445470
There was also a PC port, but I bet it was even more unpopular than the 3DO version.

what's the best port of ST?

>>4445478
Yes.

>>4445478
Dreamcast.

Is Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 better than regular Mortal Kombat 3?

>>4445460
Also I guess it wouldn't be that much Turbo on the SNES without some extra expensive chips

>>4445597
Yes.

>>4445437
The sad thing is, around these parts that likely wasn't even meant as bait.

>>4445650
I refuse to believe that, I need some sanity

>>4445340
And that's why playing the computer sucks and playing it too muxh is a good way to make you suck too.

>>4445685
Hang around long enough and you'll see a real serious MK fan go full retard. It's real funny when it happens.

>>4445704
A shame. This is why, though fighting games are my favorite multiplayer genre, I prefer shmups when playing alone.

Interestingly I hate co-op multiplayer in shmups, it's like they balance themselves out for me lol

>>4445714
Yeah fighters are one of my favorite genres, but I can't stand playing them single player. There's just nothing interesting about it to me, almost like it's a different game. Shmups I mostly just find boring.

>>4445739
I know this is a bit off-topic, but would you mind telling me why you find shmups boring? What is your experience with them? Genuinely curious here (not trying to convince necessarily, just hear other opinions)

For me it's 3rd strike, the one that doesn't revolve around unfun projectile memes

>>4445758
Not him, but until very recently I found shooters boring too, because I sucked at them. That's it really.

(Now I still suck, but not as much, and stuff like Varth is challenging instead of being instantly discouraging.)

>>4445771
For me it's a bit weird. I slightly dislike both projectiles and parry mechanics (by this I mean I'm ok with them but would prefer games without)

>>4445782
This is one genre I feel you need to forget about linking clearing a game with satisfaction and learn how to have fun getting as far as you can every try. Doing this it's more satisfying and you actually have a chance eventually (once you 1cc a game the general skills transfer and you can tackle other ones more easily than before)

>>4445758
I find a lot of games that are the same every time you play them boring. I also dislike pretty much all platformers as well for instance.

So typically with shmups for example, once I get so I can go through the first level perfect I very rarely want to keep playing it, and that's the same with each level. Till by the time I'm working on getting good at the later levels, if I know getting there means playing several levels I'm already good at then I'm bored before I even start.

There have been a couple I liked, Gaiares on genesis has a neat upgrade system that kept me experimenting that I kept playing it long enough to beat. And Fantasy Zone and Bangai-O which are sort of like shmups but with free range are some of my favorite games.

>>4445794
Although I can still have fun replaying games that are static unlike you, I recognize you have a very good point.

And even for me eventually the first few levels become a bit boring, though this can be softened by playing for score.

>>4445805
Yeah I've always been a little odd like that. I have always liked video games, but I like a lot of stuff and even when I was younger never felt like I had enough time. So I have to really love playing something to devote much to it.

That's partly why I think fighters are so rad though. Super fun core with an almost endless learning curve and set up for multiplayer.

>>4445821
If only there were more people like you... Now we have too many that think length is super important for games and think as themselves as hardcore for playing a grindy no-challenge piece of shit 8 hours a day or something distorting the market.

Fighting games are indeed cool, though having to play on Fightcade because you can't find buddies to play where you live like in my case is a bummer.

>>4445830
Meh... I like what I like, but I think it's awesome that games are broad enough now that there's something for everyone and I'm delighted that people like the games I don't.

>>4442432
>best fighting game
>Literally Eddie Gordo: The Video Game

>>4445989
Not him and I don't even like Tekken, but c'mon, aren't pretty much all of these games unbalanced?

Street Fighter 2 Turbo is great but cmon boys Mortal Kombat 2 is where it's at. The grim, otherworldy aesthetics unlike the cartoonish look of SF. The tension that you're actually not just in a street fight.. but a fight to the death! A fight to save the world or destroy it, whichever side you choose. The story is way deeper too and that's something nobody seems to talk about, it's so good that it could almost be reality. That's why the MK movie was better than the SF movie, even though SF had Jean Claude Van Damme! The characters are more memorable and have more substance, an undead ninja back for vengeance, a hollywood action star that wants to prove he's the real deal, an evil warlock that steals the souls of his victims to become infinitely more powerful, cmon guys these are better characters than Ken and Ryu! The fighting itself is more satisfying and the moves are more creative and dynamic, blood flying everywhere just like in a real fight. Sorry but the kids I knew growing up that preferred SF were the kids that traded pokemon cards and the kids that preferred MK were the ones that traded baseball and hockey cards. Basically what I'm trying to say is MK is the game for real muthafuckin g's and SF is for soyboys with perogy boobs and little asian twinks.

>>4446104
THIS!

>>4446104
>>4446106
No way. Tell me this is a legendary-sized bait

>>4446108
Not even a contradictory opinion.

>>4446108
Not even a controversial opinion, kiddo.

>>4446104
this is like that kid at school telling you why mk is better than sf lol

Don't post about fighting games here, everyone is a complete / almost complete noob at them,

Retro gamers are NOT competitive, even if you tell me that a speedrunner is. That's a complete different way than having to beat a top team on games like CSGO, LoL or ANY fighting game (Melee included).

>>4446163
wtf is this retarded assumption based stereotyping? wtf is a "retro gamer" and how does coming here or playing them make you one and cancel out playing other things also? you're a fucking idiot. All those games you list are pleb bullshit for nerd virgin losers resting mouse arms on there fat gunts, come back when you learn about high level shmup play and we will talk about "retro gamers are not competitive" you stupid mong cunt. fyi i played 3rd strike competitively for 4 years.

>>4446163
I play Melee locally and some other stuff on Fightcade but sure, buddy

>>4446181
And yes, high level shmup is harder than all of these, no doubt

>>4446181
There's a solid chance that's the MK fan I mentioned. He might just be another rando crazy though, lots of them too.

>>4445446

From what I gather, it's only the real old heads that love HF. Virtually no one plays it as the majority people prefer ST as it is more popular thanks to Evo and the ST community which established itself in the early to mid 00s.

ST was not popular when it first came out. Mk2 and kof94 where killing it as the majority of people where burnt out from SF2.

New Zealand has an active HF community. Also, here in the states, Eighty Bar arcade in LA has a small competitive scene as well.

Most people who barely picked up ST will always prefer it because it's more familiar with it's fast pace, supers, tech throws and air juggles, which imo don't belong in a SF2 game and is more suited for the alpha/3 series.

>>4445416

Super was not a tech demo for ST. The only reason ST exists was because of the dumb decision to return to speed back to CE without having the option to increase it.

The hacks of SF2 where a mess, unbalanced and unplayable. But as one American adviser took notice, the speed of the game was something you couldn't ignore. After playing the hack and going back to CE, one couldn't help but notice how slow it was. There was absolutely no going back and SSFT2 is the perfect example of this.

>>4447295
>Super was not a tech demo for ST. The only reason ST exists was because of the dumb decision to return to speed back to CE without having the option to increase it.
This. If anything, Super Turbo is a glorified ROM hack of Vanilla Super, given how they didn't bother to record any voice samples for the new moves and how Gouki is just shoehorned into roster without even a proper name tag (which explains how they got away renaming him in the U.S.).

>>4447279
Does hyper fighting have tech throws? I'm too lazy to check

Is there any clean scan of this Hyper Fighting flyer?

>>4447386

It doesn't. They weren't introduced until ST

>>4440560
wrong

>Super Street Fighter II Turbo
>Mortal Kombat II
>Primal Rage
>Killer Instinct Gold

Any of the above are acceptable

>>4447554
shit taste

>>4447534
Doesn't he have a daughter?

>>4447378
They actually even converted unsold Super boards into Super Turbo boards.

>>4447554
Had forgotten Primal Rage. Good times.

>>4442037
>That game is only appealing aesthetically

vsav has a good neutral other than the toptiers

>>4445338
>ai in fighting games
retard

>>4442940
>Comebacks haves to be earned in HF and you can't rely on a the damage inflicted by a super(boxer's being the most notorious).
low forward into fireball is practically a touch of death in HF because of the retarded stun, that's much worse than any unga barunga super in ST

>>4447554
The western ones aren't as polished for me and I think to a lot of dedicated players of the genre, even on this board. Though I must admit I've never sunk that much that into the since they gave me such a meh first impression

>>4447819
>retard
Enlighten us, you divine one!

>>4447831
Not going to entertain a retard talking about the AI in a fighting game when it's literally worthless. You aren't mike watson and you don't know anything about ST so stop it.

>>4442545
you need to have godlike execution to play angel and do the infinite, try again

>>4442386
Not him, but let's not act like ultra combos and other retardation didn't swing rounds more than the (admittedly fucking retarded) random stun in ST.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZaFI_MgNeI

>>4442037
A lot of what you say is valid but vsav and cvs2 are legitimately good.

I wouldn't say o.bison is garbage either, he does have some benefits over n.bison even though n.bison is the obviously better character and you'd be a fool to choose o.bison.

>>4442432
you mean the one where ogre is retarded and electric wind hookfist does 50% life and rapes everyone? every serious tekken player thinks DR or tag2 are the best entry, but I'm not a much of a tekken player so I'm just going by what my friends have said

>>4447819

You have less room for error in CPS1 SF2 because of it, but it's not worse than boxers super that deals 65% damage from across the screen.

I get what you are saying though, but to me adding supers to SF2 is like adding super jumps to 3rd strike. It's just doesn't fit.

>>4447853
>but to me adding supers to SF2 is like adding super jumps to 3rd strike

...?

>>4447853
>>4447856
oh, misinterpreted your post, I apologize

I don't like the retarded safe supers in ST either but the game is more well polished than HF. Ryu has almost zero recovery on fireballs in HF and I'm pretty sure it has bigger reversal windows too.

I appreciate your opinion, I just disagree. Obviously rog ryu and chun have retarded gay aids supers. I like ST for what it is and accept the horrible aspects of the game.

>>4447803
I know, I didn't understand this guy's point. Though yeah, the rushdown of some of the best characters it a bit extreme

>>4447861

None of the arcade versions of SF2 have reversal windows. You have to frame perfect the move to get a reversal, that's why pianoing exists.

>>4447861
Well, no shit, Ryu is top tier in HF while he isn't in ST (more like high tier there)

>>4447880
>None of the arcade versions of SF2 have reversal windows. You have to frame perfect the move to get a reversal, that's why pianoing exists.

Uh... what. ST has a 1f reversal window. WW didn't have reversals.

>>4447893
Damn, ONE (1) frame, such a window lol
Still pianoing

>>4447893

Why can you not reversal in WW? All a reversal is is inputting a move on the first frame after leaving stun/knockdown.

>>4447910
>All a reversal is is inputting a move on the first frame after leaving stun/knockdown.

you could literally just keep jumping at people in WW once you got the kd and they were powerless to stop it

>>4447902
your execution being so bad that you can't hit reversals in ST doesn't change the fact that sf2 didn't have reversals until CE dipshit

In ww once you got a KD the round was over. Reversals as we know them didn't exist in WW.

>>4447927
I wasn't the same guy.

I think you mean by reversal a move that lets you be invincible at the start. So Shoryuken wasn't invincible in WW?

>>4447851
>a retard talking about the AI in a fighting game when it's literally worthless
HURRRRR WHAT ABOUT PLAYING TO MAKE THE HIGHEST POSSIBLE SCORE, LIKE ANY OTHER ARCADE GAME

>>4447931
Some games are more engaging for score than others. Cheesing some crappy AI... meh

>>4447931
Yes I'm sure you finding out how to get saggit in a loop on da super nintendo is no different from competing in the top scores in dodonpachi

>>4447927

I have been playing fighting games for years and, while I have never played WW competitively, I have never heard that you cannot reversal in that game.

Especially because that doesn't make sense. Inputting a button on a frame should mean that move comes out on that frame.

>>4447941
You'll just get hit out of the startup by their meaty.

>>4447941
As I said I think it may have to do with a lackstartup invincibility on those moves, so if they put an aerial hitbox before you can do anything you're screwed and they can keep doing this over and over again.

Maybe Capcom saw this and implemented the invincibility on stuff like Shoryukens. Let's see if this knowledgeable anon can inform us

>>4447948
>As I said I think it may have to do with a lackstartup invincibility on those moves, so if they put an aerial hitbox before you can do anything you're screwed and they can keep doing this over and over again.
>Maybe Capcom saw this and implemented the invincibility on stuff like Shoryukens. Let's see if this knowledgeable anon can inform us

You are correct.

>>4447951
Interesting. Man, WW is busted. I only got to the series at HF

It's understandable since as I've read even the combo system has some degree of being unintentional on WW, they didn't exactly know what they were doing from the start

So in other words, WW does have reversals, and has no reversal window (frame perfect is not a window), it's just that there's no reason to do them so they were essentially moot until CE.

You can reversal tatsu in any version of the game, too, it's just that there's no reason to do so unless the exact meaty setup your opponent is going for somehow gets dodged by tatsu's startup boxes.

>>4447938
He was acting like a dipshit, but had a point. Shmups are harder at high level play because it becomes an endurance game of going for a long time never getting hit. Moment to moment fighting games, even against AI take more skill.

It's one thing to play Gradius for an hour and never get hit. Difficult, sure but plenty do-able. It would be another thing entirely to play an hour of back to back matches in Super Turbo and never once take a hit. That would border on impossible.

>>4447956

Cancel combos were a straight bug. Capcom thought the idea was cool and decided to make it an official gameplay mechanic in later games, but with more restrictions. Basically the developers got a handle on it.

Lots of cool aspects of games come from bugs, but fighting games in particular have gotten a lot of cool mechanics from bugs.

>>4447934
Most arcade "performances" are about cheesing the computer, when it's not mere pattern recognition. Think about shooters or beat'em alls.

>>4447938
Street Fighter was also meant to be played alone, with a high score board, 16 different endings, and a real challenge overall. Deal with it.

>>4447965

SF1 is garbage, SF2 very quickly became a competitive game.

One of the reasons SSF2 gets a lot of shit is because it was the only version of SF2 where Capcom didn't care about the competitive scene's opinion.

>>4447958
>WW does have reversals

I guess if you want to be semantic and say you can begin a move on the very first frame that you wakeup, then I guess. But there is no point. There is no startup invincibility. It's just the regular special move that would come out in neutral. So they can just meaty you to death. Again, round over after KD.

There were no special properties for what you now think of as reversals. It's in every other fighter, sure, but it wasn't back then. You got knocked down you basically got mega-cuckolded and the only way you'd get out of it was if they fucked up their setup or you got a lucky throw the second you got out of hitstun while they were trying to tickthrow you.

>>4447961
>It's one thing to play Gradius for an hour and never get hit. Difficult, sure but plenty do-able

Maybe in gradius. There is not a single human being that has done that in dodonpachi daioujou.

>It would be another thing entirely to play an hour of back to back matches in Super Turbo and never once take a hit. That would border on impossible.

Because it's a silly arbitrary criteria to try and make a non competitive mode more competitive. It's apples and oranges.

>>4447961
>He was acting like a dipshit
I'm not the one calling people "retards" and "not Mike Watson" because they talk about beating 1-player SF2, though.

Apart from that, I think that doing a 1cc run on Super Turbo is more satisfying than winning against a human opponent. I also like seeing the ending for each character, although we now have YouTube for that.

One other think I actually enjoy in HF over ST and other games is the lack of high ground moves or overheads. I prefer this neutral game

>>4447941
>Inputting a button on a frame should mean that move comes out on that frame.
Well, there's the problem. That assumption is not actually true. There are varying levels of lag before different actions start. For example normals come out with one more frame of delay than specials.

>>4447976
>overheads

crazy kicks and ryu's f+mp are overheads

jump back or forward roundhouse has been an instant overhead in every version of sf2

>>4447971

I don't know what you're talking about, most moves in most fighting games do not gain reversal properties. In fact the only large scale exception I can even think of is SF4 adding armor breaking. Other exceptions are usually character or move specific and might even be specific to a particular version of a move.

Reversal upper in ST isn't any different than regular upper in ST. The purpose of the reversal message on screen is just to help players recognize when they are successfully doing a reversal because it's so hard to do in the game that otherwise people would just not know.

>>4447969
>SF1 is garbage
Come on now.

>>4447971
I like those games but dodging stuff like the second loop bosses in those is pretty much bullshit

>>4447981

The fuck is that supposed to mean? SF1 being garbage isn't even a controversial opinion, it's the overwhelming majority.

>>4447979
f+mp isn't a move in HF, and the second one you're mention, even if instant, makes you jump

My complaints are about GROUND overheads

>>4447980
in ww gief could literally just spd you as a meaty over and over and over and there wasn't a single thing you could do to stop it so long as his timing was correct

it was like o.hawk's option select in that it's just "spd you to death" but it was even more retarded and it wasn't even an OS. just spd them as oki and they'll keep getting raped.

>>4447985
That is supposed to mean the SF1 reference is completely off-topic and bad faith desu

>>4447980
>Reversal upper in ST isn't any different than regular upper in ST. The purpose of the reversal message on screen is just to help players recognize when they are successfully doing a reversal because it's so hard to do in the game that otherwise people would just not know.

Not about the message. CE had reversals without the message. WW didn't have reversals programmed into the game and gief could just spd you as oki over and over.

http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Ryu_(HF)

Man, I was going to say "you're mentioning" changed my mind to say you mention and kept the 're, fuck me

>>4447990
>>4447993

And that STILL doesn't mean you don't have reversals in WW.

This is what the confusion is about, you don't know what that word means. Reversals are a purely mechanical aspect of the game. Yes you can still do them in WW, there's just no reason to most of the time.

>>4447992

No, it's pretty spot on and blows up your poorly thought out opinion pretty good.

SF1 was literally made to be a story driven single player game where players compare high scores. It's shit. Just like every other fighting game made in that way.

>>4447996
Shitty reversals without invincibility, end of the discussion

>>4448003

Duh, but that's not the discussion in the first place.

>>4447880
>None of the arcade versions of SF2 have reversal windows.

That's what this was all about, why would you go off on a tangent about something that isn't even that important just because you don't know what a word? That is confusing as fuck.

>>4447971
>It's apples and oranges.
At this point, I'll take that.

>>4447969
>SF2 very quickly became a competitive game
Fun fact: in Yurop, credits were so expensive (like $1 for one credit) that the best value for money was to play fighting games in single-player mode, because who would want to pay $1 for one minute of gameplay?

So when you went to the arcade with your homie, you didn't play against him, but you were splitting the bill with him to play single-player SF2 (or SF Alpha, or Mortal Kombat...). And people were waiting for their turn for the single-player mode, too. It was bad etiquette to play randomly against someone, as you were stealing his hard-earned credit.

World Warrior literally does not have reversals. The game simply does not let you transition directly from the last frame of hitstun/blockstun/wakeup to the first frame of a special. There will always be a frame of neutral inbetween. This sort of thing is actually a problem that pops up often in Mugen as well.

>>4448002
SF1 is shit because it's shit, not because it's a 1-player game. Do you have other opinions? Because your current opinion sucks.

>>4448018
lol Mugen

>>4448016
Maybe in poor parts of Europe but I never saw anything like that.

>>4448019
This.

>>4448028
I was in the poor part of a rich country desu.

>>4448040
I guess that would make a lot of sense then. Interesting how cultures can change that. Any arcade I'd been to in in Canada if you're playing single player on a fighter it was assumed you were waiting for challengers.

>>4447861

You're right, Ryu has the fastest recovery on fireballs which is basically instant. His tatsu is also very hard to punish having no hitbox at the start up and finish.

Both have their fair share of bs, and I play both religiously. But to me SF2 is always going to be the bare bones game that it was in the cps1 system. SSF2 almost had it right aside from the speed issue. All the supers and tech throws should have been left for their alpha series, as that was the direction all their fighting games were going.

I love both and use Sagar exclusively. I definitely have a much easier time on ST with O.gat than his version on HF

>>4448069
O. Sagat is busted

I also enjoy HF the most. I prefer non projectile characters, particularly Blanka but some E. Honda too

>>4448074

Blanks is a beast in HF. You can't punish his rolling attack after it's blocked. I believe only sim can with his c.f. He totally owns Sagar in HF.

O.Sagat is beast, but his upper cut and tiger knee doesn't have a lot of priority. It will always lose to Ken and ryu's j.rh and plenty of other jumping normal attacks. Best zoning in the game though of course.

>>4448083
Yeah, that's why I pick Blanka, probably the best non-projectile user in HF. I mention E. Honda because I like the character as well but since it's hell to play against some fireball dudes as him I pick him less often.

Still, I think E.Honda may be the second best non-projectile character if we don't count Zangief since it's a different archetype as well (grappler). Still, one of the few bad aspects of the game is how projectiles dominate just a bit too much here.

Akuma kicks my ass every time.

Wat do?

>you can get to Akuma by using the 2P mode and beating everyone, btw
>don't let 2P go game over even once, just continue immediately and select the new character chosen by CPU, until you get to Bison
>funnily it doesn't work if you suddenly stop cheating in the middle and legit 1cc your way to Bison

>>4449023
Need tips to steamroll Akuma pls

Where are y'all SF2 wizards?

>>4449307
play the street fighter collection version for ss/psx. Difficulty is non existant

>the highest score ever in SSF2X is 4,111,000, achieved in 2005 by some Japanese with Ryu, according to another board
>4,111,000

Dafuq? How is it even possible? What's the trick?

>>4449417
I want the difficulty though! I'm not even playing 2X for this reason. It's too relaxed compared to 2T.

Street fighter was just a 3rd world copy of double dragon

>>4449427
Get 8 consecutive draw rounds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_2I1VUZKE0

>>4449459
Nice. Thanks!

Even with this trick, 4 million seems insane tbqh.

>>4449023

Download the training mode for ST. You can set the first level to dictator and you'll automatically be fighting against Akuma. It also has settings to have infinite time/health and you can set the difficulty on the fly.

>>4449540
Never heard of this before, thanks.

Uh oh, is 4chan frozen?

>>4442306
>Maybe I'm not a tournament elite or something
So shut up then and go back to Doom.

>>4447961
Just trying to not get hit in a shmup is actually low level play.

>>4443537
>no supers
>Sailor Moon S

>>4442814
'98 is among SNK's all-time finest, tied with Samsho2 and 5sp, Real Bout Special and Real Bout 2.

Last Blade 2 could've been as well, but it's filled with infinites.

>>4449976
>filled with infinites.
So is 98

>>4449898
I prefer fighting games, in fact I suck at FPS lol

>>4449905
Better than just credit feed but yes, scoring is the hard part

>>4449976
>>4449990
Yeah, I've seen '98's infinites. How are they justified?

can someone explain to me why some characters will do a regular throw, and others will take away half your fucking life with a single one

>>4450240
what do you mean, if the opponent backflips and lands on its feet, that's a tech, if they grab you and do a million hits with a nudge, slap, bite, etc that's just the CPU super fast button mashing abilities

>>4449990
But '98 doesn't have to ban them to make it more competitive.

>>4450240
Also, damage is randomized between a range in SFII