/vr/ - Retro Games

>>4427345
desu I hear more people shit on it here than anywhere else. I guess it's just not everyone's cup of tea

>>4427345
You just answered your own question.

>>4427345
How come (contrarian board) hates (good game) but (video game enthusiast board) loves it?

>>4427459

You forgot to explicitly point out that nobody on the contrarian board has played Daggerfall.

I haven't played Daggerfall either, so I just don't talk about whether it's good or not.

>>4427345
I dislike it, as I dislike all clunky, boring, quantity-over-quality Elder Scrolls games. In fact, in terms of quantity over quality, Daggerfall may well be the worst of them all. But I don't go into Daggerfall threads to shit them up with my opinion. I'm only posting it here because you asked.

>>4427345
>why does a board that hates every game hate this game
Some mysteries just weren't meant to be solved by man anon

>>4427345
/v/ hates it cause they're meme parroting kiddies who are too retarded to handle setting up a game and configuring controls.

>>4427459
But /vr/ is the contrarian board. By definition /v/ is the normies loving shitty modern games. That's the standard. /vr/ is the board that prefers retro games which is abnormal. /vr/ is the contrarian board that generally hates bad games.

>/v/ is made up of shit kids with shit tastes
>/vg/ is made up of veteren gamers with actual good taste

>>4428043
>/vg/
>good taste

>>4427961
You don't know what contrarian means.

I think /v/'s general consensus is that it's a good game, just the random dungeon generation is horrid.

Daggerfall is great. /v/ are just cucks who can't go without the retarded Skyrim mods for one moment in an Elder Scrolls game. DF comes from a time when the tes games were about the actual game and not about what paintjobs you can slap on it.

>>4427345
I think it's more likely that the majority of them never grew up with pre-windows PC games and thus unable to fully wrangle with the type of mechanics Daggerfall uses. Swipe-to-swing, timed quests, cycling through interaction types, manually searching for locations by key word input, diceroll combat, things like these don't exist in modern gaming and as far as /v/ is concerned they're outright archaic. I think if you asked the average /v/ user to try and get out of Privateer's Hold in a blind playthrough most of them will end up getting killed by an imp not even thinking to experiment with different weapons.
You also have to consider the mainline games that came out after it, which feature true 3D interactions and far more interesting environments to explore than the Illiac Bay's endless flat plains and randomly generated corridors. Daggerfall's value hasn't diminished whatsoever but that doesn't stop it from aging over these long years.

>>4427345
>/v/

/v/ has shit taste which is nothing new.

I didn't grow up with this game or DOS games, so I don't want to chalk it up to nostalgia. That being said, this is still my favorite video game of all time.

>>4429695
>my favorite video game of all time

I take it your knowledge is significant, then. I know very little. Any secrets to share?

>>4429712

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Daggerfall

Go here - it has everything you need to know to have a great experience with the game. There's a lot to know, and this site has everything.

I guess they prefer morrowind

>>4427961
This, all I see is xenoblade get hype thread number 700 and wow those botw physics thread number 700 every time I make the mistake of seeing what's going on there. Their opinions have become IGN tier.

>>4428043
/vg/ is exactly like reddit, good for tutorials and tech support, abysmal for discussion

>>4427345
/v/ shits itself over every TES game though. They all have massive hatebases and fanbases, except Arena which has maybe one or two guys total who post about it. You probably got the impression that /v/ hates Daggerfall from the fact that Daggerfall is mostly brought up in the first place only to try to shit on the later TES games, and the fans of the later TES games will in turn criticize Daggerfall to defend their favorite. Ironically 90% of the time both the people praising and criticizing Daggerfall have never played a single second of it; it's just a tool used to to try to win arguments between fans of Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim. If you wait for the rare threads about the game itself rather than the series as a whole, you'll find the discussion much more favorable.

/vr/ on the other hand actually plays the games it talks about, and Daggerfall's got more than enough interesting content and mechanics to fuel discussion on its own.

>>4430428
Non-Dungeon Maps suck
RNG Dungeons suck
Offensive spellcasting sucks
Talking to NPCs sucks
Shops having nothing to buy sucks
Vampirism sucks
Stealing/Lockpicking sucks
Main Quest sucks
Non-guild quests suck
Owning a house sucks

What else am I missing

>>4431456
Owning a house, stealing, and lockpicking are all pretty shitty in Daggerfall, but I disagree with the rest.

The city/town maps are sufficient to navigate. Locations are color-coded by broad categories and specific venues will get permanently labeled when you interact with them or ask NPCs where they are. The world/region map isn't great but you don't need to bother with it since you'll mostly be typing the names of where you want to go anyway.

Daggerfall's dungeons are one of the highlights for me. They lack variety, but what's there is good and the actual generation of them is solid. The common complaints of dungeons being built in impossible-to-complete configurations are massively exaggerated, if legitimate at all, since I've visited hundreds and never once encountered such an issue. They DO sometimes have traps and puzzles that can make it difficult to figure out how to reach certain parts of them, but invariably there IS a way to get everywhere a quest object could possibly spawn. I suspect most if not all of the people talking about broken dungeons are actually complaining about broken quests that never spawned the target in the first place, or couldn't figure out a puzzle involving a moving-wall, blocked door, teleporter maze, or other such trick which at first glance might look like some kind of RNG error rather than the truly hand-crafted puzzles they are.

The main quest is great, takes you to some of the best dungeons in the series (Direnni Tower and Mantellan Crux), and is full of intrigue -- it's my favorite TES main quest. The biggest problem is the pacing. It's easy to forget or fail parts of it and have your save fucked. It might be several in-game months before you figure out what to do next. It's definitely better on a second or third playthrough when you know what to do and can just focus on it.

I'm running out of time (and room in this post) but I'll comment on the rest later if you still care to discuss it.

>>4427468
Its good, but its complex... ish. You have to get used to the quirks and glitches of daggerfall. If you just start a new game exit the dungeon (if you can) and run in a direction, youre gonna have a bad time. You need to fast travel to a town ( yes fast travel, or else it would take literal days to walk from place to place). Dont worry the cities and dungeons are big enough to satiate your exploring needs. Find a guild or temple, join it, get quest,???, profit. After a while you get the hang of things, then try doing the main quest, but you have to meet lady bresiena (or whatever her name is) or you cant finish the main quest, which has some gnarly quests.

>>4428639
But.... dftools for unity is fucking awesome!

>>4429729
I second this, also download this version. Easy install with extra stuffs.

http://theelderscrolls.wiwiland.net/Fichiers/DaggerfallSetup-2.14.1.exe

I've tried to play Daggerfall 3 or 4 times now, and every time I enjoy the first dungeon, get to town, do a couple of town quests, then I get a quest that sends me into a dungeon and I remember why I don't like this game. The dungeons are way too big for the game's shitty map to handle. Privateer's Hold is small enough and was designed by an actual human, so you don't need a map because navigating it is easy without one. The random quest dungeons are so huge that you NEED a map, and Daggerfall's map fucking sucks.

I can't wait for Daggerfall Unity. That map's not perfect, but holy shit it's actually usable now.

>>4428494
You actually don't.


noun
1.a person who takes an opposing view, especially one who rejects the majority opinion, as in economic matters.

The majority opinion is retro games are shit because it's old and busted and newer means always better always. Check out my 9D graphics that you hold a single button down for 30 seconds to beat! GAME OF THE ALLTIME!

/vr/ takes the opposing view rejecting the majority opinion. Retro games were geared towards challenge and gameplay improvements in design and while lacking some newer input improves and the technical capacity they are still more often better designed games.

/vr/ is contrarian. It doesn't mean wrong opinion because I don't like it. It just means opposes the majority opinion. Which is often the correct position because the majority is often stupid and uninformed. Effectively everytime you start calling out contrarianism, a word you clearly don't understand but hopefully after this you'll get a clue, you're arguing for argumentum ad populum - an appeal to the majority. Many people believe it therefore it must be correct which is a logical fucking fallacy.

>>4429760
>Their opinions have become IGN tier.
>have become
/v/ was that way from the beginning. At least around a good three quarters of them until about a quarter got their own board called /vr/ in which case /v/ ended up being roughly one hundred percent echo chamber which made it worse when redditors and gamefags starting flooding in because then there was almost no one to correct misconceptions.

>>4432512
I recommend sticking it out through the random questing dungeons and investing in the recall spell to eliminate at least half of the pain of them by getting out quickly after your objective because I always found the handcrafted main quest dungeons to be quite good with some neat dungeon architecture and puzzles.

This is something the average skyrimjob licker totally misses when they go back and try to play Daggerfall, they just end up complaining about "muh procedural generation is worse than the skyrim dungeons which are literally a straight line from point A to point B" (protip they're not).

>>4432512
Daggerfall's dungeon map is definitely usable and I've found it quite invaluable. Just keep it in top-down mode and get used to the controls, especially right clicking stuff to hide them and left clicking to write notes. Webm related shows the system I used to keep track of the areas I've explored and the location of the entrance, which makes it impossible to get lost or looped around and a breeze to get back even if you can't cast Recall. The best part is that it's not just parts of the floor that you can attach notes to: literally every 3D object can be annotated, so you can even match up individual levers with the gates they toggle (it will be obvious since objects that can move like gates will update their position on the map automatically), which was a very useful tool in the Sentinel Palace dungeon with all those blue bars to get to the lich.

>>4432823
That's helpful, but I always thought the biggest problem with the map was the fact that you can only view a very small portion of the dungeon at any one time. It feels like I can't see the forest for the trees. Maybe I just suck at navigating.

>>4432604
You have no idea what you're talking about, jackass.

>>4432823
I think it would've been better if it was divided by elevation. Keeping it in top-down throws me off when there's higher floors overlapping the floor I'm currently on, I sometimes get confused by what paths are actually around me because of this.

>>4435773
That does sound nice, but I'm not sure it would work for Daggerfall since dungeons don't really have layers like Arena's do. These things are fully 3D and they use vertical space arbitrarily like they do horizontal space. Especially in the cave style blocks where nearly everything is sloped and going under/over each other. However, you can take advantage of the dungeon map's very narrow depthwise rendering by zooming in until your floor is the highest visible so nothing above you shows. You can also right click on parts of the dungeon to hide them if you want to stay zoomed out to see more at once. It varies by dungeon, but if you're using those techniques then the blocks that are difficult to work out on the map are fairly uncommon. And maybe you'll be more comfortable in the side view for those ones, though in my experience I've never not regretted switching from top-down.

>>4427345
Hey now, I hate it a plenty. Shithesda should've sticked to football and home alone.

>>4435956
Future Shock was pretty great too, despite the promised multiplayer patch ending up in SKYnet instead. I can't believe that Todd Howard's first game was so technologically ahead of its time yet now all he does is make outdated-on-release ones with a 15 year old engine.

Wait a sec, maybe he's just one of us after all.

>>4435956
I wouldn't say that, the fact that they were able to break off with a big new series of games that offered something you just couldn't find in any other game (even today, some would say) is what kept them afloat all these years. I don't think they could have survived for through the 90's if it wasn't for The Elder Scrolls, other companies were coming out of the woodworks to fill in their own niches; JRPGs were on the rise in Western markets due to PSX letting every nip pump it full of anime and FMVs, EA was starting to put its foot down to become the single biggest sports games developer in the industry, and this is not even mentioning how everybody was trying to figure out how to do true 3D games with Nintendo's flagship titles laying much of the groundwork needed.
You know Super Mario 64 came out like a month or two before Daggerfall? When you look at each of them at face value you definitely see how archaic and aged Daggerfall really was, but if there was one thing Mario didn't have it was the sheer scale of Bethesda's game world that you were allowed to explore as you see fit. Mario was fucking tiny in comparison.

There's no ultima underworld thread so I'll ask here. Bought som old games on gog UU including. It works fine but the controls are fucked up S button moves character forward and so does the W button. So I can move backwards only with a mouse. How to fix? Also daggerfall shows balck screen after the bethesda logo.

>>4437509
For daggerfall use daggerfallsetup

Morrowind is objectively better but it's still a good game