/vr/ - Retro Games

>>4390597

ikapooga

Since when do people hate Ikaruga?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vAO6akjqdg

>>4390613

Valid Criticisms + Contrarianism + Ikaruga being reasonably well-known amongst people who aren't in shmups = REEEE WORST SHMUP

...What if you were one of those who hated shmups but took one look at Ikaruga and said "I have to try that cool-looking shit!"?

Where is my line to stand in?

>>4390627
>Valid Criticisms
Lohohol, no. Most people who criticize Ikaruga for being a memorize recommend you chain in Dodonpachi for score which is an even worse memorizer.

>>4390627
>>>>>Valid Criticisms
Lohohol, no. Most people who criticize Ikaruga for being a memorizer recommend you chain in Dodonpachi for score which is an even worse memorizer.

>>4390652
I see people criticizing both of those games for their shitty memorization, actually.

>>4390597
I can't get past stage 2 yet

>>4390652
>Dodonpachi for score which is an even worse memorizer.
Only it isn't and unlike ikaruga has a personality.

>>4390597
>Is it because they couldn't get past stage 4?
Ironically it's those who can't play it that love it, actual shmup players all of which can clear it easily because it's an easy survival game think it's complete shit that goes for the japanese and chinese communities to.

>>4390867
t. pretentious "shmupfag" who has been only playing these games on emulators and jumped very late into the bandwagon.

>>4390613
since it became "rare" and expensive.

>>4390867
>Only it isn't
Are you fucking kidding me

>>4390867
>Only it isn't
Are you fucking kidding me, you need to memorize enemy spawns, how is it any different from color chaining in Ikurger?

>>4390875
Because Dodonpachi isn't as popular with "normies"! You don't get it pleb!!1!

>>4390867
Oh God, this must be falseflagging, nobody can be this retarded.

>>4390879
Dondonpachi is up there with the Touhou 5-7 as "babbys first bullet-hell" when it comes to getting into shmups.

>>4391302
dodonpachi is harder than doj bl, the japanese said so, don't argue

>>4390597

Because this game is better desu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZyokEM8hw0

>>4391342
Wtf is this gay shit.

>>4390865
TFW the boss always wrecks my shit

>>4391342
You mean this game.

>>4391345
>Wtf is this gay shit.
Ikaruga is basically the last shmup that isn't about robot schoolgirl maid waifus, it tried to save the genre but the faggotry is too strong

>>4391586
thats wong i mean pink bullets

>>4391586
Thanks to Touhou destroying the genre with its gay otaku pandering moe pantsu shit.

>>4391603
The only thing Touhou destroyed is my bomb timing because I seem to think I can press it right when I get hit

>>4391623
You shouldn't use bombs in the first place.

>>4390597
It's like this. Consider the SHMUP crowd a heavily drug addicted bunch, who have gone through so much substance that they need copious amount of the most foreign or most powerful material to keep going. For them, Ikaruga is an entry level drug. Talking about Ikaruga around them is like talking about how you once smoked weed as a teenager, in a group who eat pcp and acid for dinner and wash it down with methyl alcohol on a daily basis.

>>4390652
Ikaruga is only about memorizing because it is too difficult to play otherwise, you can't just watch your ship for dodging and blast away to clear the screen. If you do that, the junk pellets from destroyed ship will trap and kill you.

You need to think 3 steps ahead on which direction you want to move in, using which colour, while shooting which target, in order to use/dodge the junk pellets exactly the way you need to, to charge up your laser, which you then need to use in the correct colour, so you don't kill enemies with the same colour just as you are about to switch modes to dodge the next incoming laser, etc.

And this sums up about 2 seconds of actual gameplay if you just try to wing it.

So yeah, people memorize it instead, because it gets you more scores anyway.

>>4391586
>it tried to save the genre but the faggotry is too strong

Ikaruga brought more people to the shmup genre than any other shmup other than, I dunno, Space Invaders or something.

Ikaruga has a myriad of flaws I can't understand why people seem to ignore. Scoring system is frankly crap. Granted, it's not as bad as RSG's scoring where you could only kill 1/3rd of the enemy type per section, and at least it doesn't tie into your ship's power like RSG did (though playing Ikaruga for survival is extremely dull). But its chaining means you have to perfectly shoot in the order Treasure wants you to, unless you want to break your chain by shooting whatever you feel like (or the even lamer option of having to let enemies pass you by since you're afraid of getting a chain broken). So prepare to play like a robot if you ever want to score well in Ikaruga, where routes are even more strict and less free than Dodonpachi. It also has the infamy of being called super difficult because the game gives you absolutely no items once, so the only way to get extends is first learning the ins/outs of the game in order to score well. But by that point you should be able to no-miss Ikaruga, so what was the point then? Now the polarity mechanics are awful because swapping color invalidates practically all bullet patterns in the game, since you can just absorb everything in your way rendering whatever looks impossible meaningless. This seems neat at first until it becomes a chore to soak up all bullets on screen to raise your score, after you cope with it making survival play a boring cakewalk. Boss designs are rubbish save for the first and last guys. Mooks have no life to them; most don't even shoot at you and simply drift away. This plus the chaining has it feeling more like playing a puzzle game instead of an actual shump. Not to mention how it's grossly overrated due to its OST and graphics (if you dig sepia tones making backgrounds look like dogshit) by people who hardly even play shumps. Ikaruga is just a bad game that for some reason has a cult following that loves to bitch at you if you happen to question the quality of their beloved masterpiece.

Ikaruga has a myriad of flaws that I can't understand why people seem to ignore. Scoring system is frankly crap; colour-based enemy chaining means you have to perfectly shoot in the order Treasure wants you to, unless you want to break your chain by shooting whatever you feel like (or the even lamer option of having to let enemies pass you by because you're afraid of getting a broken chain). So prepare to play like a robot if you ever want to score well in Ikaruga, where routes are even more strict and less interesting than Dodonpachi. But hey, at least it's not as bad as Silvergun's scoring. It also has the infamy of being called super difficult because the game gives you absolutely no items once, so the only way to get extends is first learning the ins and outs of the game in order to score well. However, by then you should be able to no-miss Ikaruga anyways, so what was the point in learning? Now the polarity mechanics are awful because swapping colour invalidates practically all bullet patterns in the game, since you can just absorb everything in your way rendering whatever looks impossible meaningless. This seems neat at first until it becomes a chore to soak up every bullet on screen to raise your score, after you cope with the fact that it turns survival play into a boring cakewalk. Boss designs are rubbish save for the first and last dudes. Mooks have no life to them; most don't even shoot at you and simply drift away. This plus the colour-based chaining system makes it feel more like playing a puzzle game instead of an actual shump. Not to mention the fact that it's grossly overrated due to its OST and graphics (if you dig sepia tones making backgrounds look like dogshit) by casuals who hardly even play shumps. Ikaruga's really a poor game that for some reason has a cult following that loves to bitch at you if you ever happen to question the quality of their beloved masterpiece.

>>4391652
It didn't really "brought" anyone the same way Smash Bros didn't "bring" anyone into fighting games. People who got into Ikaruga played Ikaruga exclusively and never branched or tried out other franchises, just like Smash players never bothered getting into real fighters.
Ikaruga was pure and total cancer.

>>4391652
>Ikaruga brought more people to the shmup genre than any other shmup
source: your ass

>>4390613
They don't. Just because people don't like playing it for score doesn't mean they don't like playing it at all.

>inb4 there's no other reason to play shmups

I love shooters, but the shmup community is one of the cringiest. Fuck.

>>4390597
Probably because there's no waifus they can jerk off to in the game.

>>4392040
That's a flaw that applies to many games, it must be something more specific than that.

>>4390643

You're the casual who doesn't know about the criticisms >>4390627 is talking about, probably.

>>4392040
Did she appear in-game? Anyway I'm satisfied with this art. She's stunningly beautiful.

>>4392054
Treasure has the best waifus.

>>4392054
The console ports have an art gallery, but otherwise I don't think so. Ikaruga is very waifu-free.

>>4392061

>>4390643
You have to 1cc a bunch of faggy pink bullet curtain games before you're allowed to like Ikaruga, sorry

>>4392171
Dunno about you but Garegga could really benefit from some pink bullets.

>>4391689

People ignore most of that stuff because in order to appreciate it you have to seriously get into shumps to some extent, and there's no way to do that without ceasing to be a person.

Ikaruga is a fun enough game for people. Whatever type of entity a hardcore shmup fan is can't enjoy it all that much, but does that really matter?

>>4391697
>It didn't really "brought" anyone the same way Smash Bros didn't "bring" anyone into fighting games.

Smash didn't bring anyone into fighting games because it is not a fighting game. It's a Nintendo all-stars party game.

Getting your dick cut off > Smash Bros

>>4392497
>>4392528
We get it guys, you're too kewl for pewpoolahr gayems.

>>4391338
>the japanese said so
nigger stop this faggot weeb shit, that list is just for general reference and shouldn't be taken 100% accurately, especially when points difference is small

>>4392497
Exactly. And Ikaruga isn't a shmup, it's a puzzle game.

>>4392562
It's more like a free-roaming platformer with puzzle elements.

>>4392562
all shmups are just puzzle games in disguise

>>4392570
You could say it's the Dark Souls of cinematic light roguelite-like-like free roaming sandbox on-rails belt scrolling shoot'em up score based shooter with light adventure elements.

>>4390625
Ikaruga fags btfo

>>4393248
>any game where you have to find a solution to something is a "puzzle game"
reaching pretty hard there, anon

>>4393762
If you think about it, real life is a big puzzle game that you've failed.

>>4393762
agreed
it's obviously a role-playing game, since you play the role of ikaruga

>>4393776
Nice projection.

>>4393839
You know it to be true

>>4393851

Why are people upset when someone points out that a game they like has only one real solution? If that's not a flaw in the game, then why do you feel the need to get upset?

Is it because the game offers two objective systems to measure performance so they know they can't hide how badly they're playing? The two goals of the game are to get the highest score and to not die. If you get a lower score than someone, or you die, then you're performing worse than that someone.

Super Mario Bros is also exactly the same every single time you play it, but nobody pays attention to that game's scoring system. Furthermore, nobody gets upset when someone points out that there's only one theoretical ideal solution to beat the game even if you are trying to get the highest score. Or the fact that there's other ideal solutions to other objective standards of play, like speedrunning.

But the instant someone points out that a shmup has one ideal solution in its normal mode of play, everybody loses their shit.

>>4393925
technically you can also play co-op so that makes it three solutions

>>4392051

...What's with the hate for casuals, my man? What, you you mean to tell me there isn't *some* genre you're considered a "casual" in?

>>4390597
Because CAVE exists and therefore there is literally no reason to play this.

>>4393969
cave's best games aren't retro, sorry

>>4393958

Frankly, I don't express interest in hobbies I don't actually have interest in. So no, I wouldn't be considered a casual.

If I decided to adopt a hobby and found out that there's some misconception I have about it, then I'd rather accept that my preconception was untrue than spaz out and defend it.

>>4393984

You do know that Ikaruga isn't retro either, right?

>>4392562
>And Ikaruga isn't a shmup, it's a puzzle game.

Ikaruga is a shmup that people play like a puzzler because they suck at it otherwise.

>>4393984
Their retro games are 10/10, but their newer games are 12/10.

>>4393969
>>4393998
You guys are just supporting the theory that much of the anti-treasure/ikaruga hateboner posting is done by autistic cave shills.
Please don't do it.

>>4393993

Frankly, you sound like you're on the spectrum to me.

>>4393997
Nah it's because chaining colors makes it feel puzzly. Also playing Iky for survival is piss easy, playing it for score (where the "puzzle" criticism comes from) is much, much harder.

I'm not a shmup buff or anything, I like em and play them. I liked ikaruga.

Maybe there are better games like it but I had fun playing it on Dreamcast. The whole flipping the color was cool - maybe it wasn't original but it was the first time I saw it.

Graphics were nice at the time when most were still 2d (not saying 2d is bad but it's nice to have variety )

Don't get the haters. Maybe it wasn't a competition worthy game but whatever.

>>4393993

I think he was just saying maybe if you're not super hardcore into the genre you can have fun playing it for a hour?

There isn't anything wrong with ikaruga, it's just maybe not a game worthy of tournament play.

Not all games are about intense competition some are just sorta fun to play? It's like smash isn't ment to be played competitively game isn't designed that way but it is a fun game to play for a few hours

>>4394287
Ikaruga has plenty potential for tournament-level play, only few people have scored above 30M in it.

>>4394295

Well I dunno that seems to be the only actual critism of the game posted so far.

>>4394267
I think Hard mode is on par with some of the Cave shit.

>>4390597

I cant get past 4. And i love ikaruga.

Treasure shmups are the antithesis of Cave shmups, and this is what bothers the hell out of Cave/STG fanboys.

Treasure shmups:
>unique gameplay ideas for the genre while borrowing similar scoring ideas between each other
>quality over quantity, there is much more design and thought put into a Treasure STG than a Cave one

Cave shmups:
>stale, cookie-cutter gameplay ideas while tweaking the scoring systems between each new game
>quantity over quality, many of Cave's games feel tired and rehashy, which explains why Cave died out

Iuchi understands the shooting genre much better than Ikeda does. No Cave shmup can come anywhere close to Treasure's.

>>4394371
Nice post. Keep dropping them redpills, man.

>>4390597
I love this game. Had it on DC, now on Steam and it's still plenty of fun.

>>4394287

Whose talking about competition?

>>4394169

Sweet, I win, you're left with some wild ad hominems and I get to call a casual a casual.

>>4394371
Guwange is better and more unique than anything Treasure shits out, not to mention that Cave practically created a subgenre while Treasure did nothing of note

>>4397169
What's so unique about walking on the ground and stage-long chaining?

>>4397203
>no mention of the shiki
>mentions of scoring only contain the very basics without the additional systems
Do you get your knowledge of Guwange based on meme videos or are you just dishonest?

>>4390597
I actually really like Ikaruga, I just don't like that scoring is incredibly punishing for the slightest misstep. Break a chain in the middle of a level and you cut your score down to 1/10th of what it could be.

It makes the game sort of something you wind up suiciding in to restart every time you miss a target or hit an extra one of the same color and mess up the chain. That's problem the only thing I'd change by game mode though, is simply adding another mode that's not based on exponential scoring and instead just provides a static scoring method (Chains give X score, but multiple chains in sequence don't give any more than the first). As it is, when you're competing against other novices, all scoring is irrelevant except for who can get a slightly longer chain than the other rather than who plays better overall.

>>4393257
Is it bad that as I read that, I attempted to conjure up a mental image of each word next and the game I had in mind kept shifting into an amorphous blob more horrifying with each genre?

I like shmups but don't give a shit about scoring, does that make me autistic?

>>4390597
Why can't Treasure make normal games? All of their shit relies on a particular gimmick to stand out.

>>4399263
Because fuck normalfags.

>>4399335
>implying normalfags aren't ikarugas biggest fan base.

>>4399263
What "gimmick" does Sin and Punishment have?

Ikaruga isn't hated but it IS overhyped.
go play mars matrix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbts2qTrbAg

>>4399540
>Mars Matrix
Looks neat. Any good "out-of-the-box" Dreamcast emulator? Each time I give it a shot I'm struggling to find the right bios/plugins especially for Demul.

>>4399540
That game is impossible

Because it's a puzzle game
And because people sucked at it

When I honestly examine the reason why I didn't like Ikaruga I have to admit that the reason is because 1) it is relentlessly unforgiving, a tiniest mistake can fuck you royally 2) learning the game is no fun, you need to grind for an eternity before you get good and reap the rewards

this is coming from a guy who loved some other unforgiving memoshit, like R-Type and Kaikan, but something about those other games made learning them fun, Ikaruga doesn't have that

>>4399593
Nulldc is the closest you're going to get but it's far, far from perfect. I did play Under Defeat, Border Down and Zero Gunner 2 relatively fine on it besides what seemed like glitchy sprite transparency. If you want to play Mars Matrix just do it on MAME.