/vr/ - Retro Games

So sonicmania has more frames and more detail

who would have imagined...

3 > Mania > SCD = 2 > 1

the sonic 3 design is way worse than the others

>>4353584
Indeed. What the shit is up with the big gloves?

>>4353584
Never liked that pseudo 3D look they chose for Sonic in S3K. The alpha used modified Sonic 2 sprites and it looked a lot better IMO.

Thankfully, nowadays there's a highly customizable version of Sonic 3 and you can choose to play with both S1 and S2 sprites.
http://www.s3complete.org/

>>4353570
im kinda tired of the sonic modding community worshiping the sonic 2 sprites
it made mania feel like a romhack

>>4353570
I absolutely hate Sonic Mania. That sprite is a complete betrayal of the classic sonic games.

Mania should never have been made. There is only one set of developers that make sonic games that this is SONIC TEAM. Anything else wrecks the Sonic lineage.

tbqh I like the Sonic Advance series more than the classics.

>>4353743

>>4353743
Yes!
Good man. These are the true versions for me. As far as I am concerned the real series is Master System Sonic, Master System Sonic 2, then the advance series.
Fuck you if you don't agree and/or if you think that other sonic games or the people who like them are in any way redeemable.

Holy shit I am so mad. The level of incompetence in the design teams of sonic games is simply staggering. How is it so difficult to make a Sonic game yet they fuck it up month after month. Major problems include inconsistency of the sprites, shitty recycled stories, and displaced focus from the best characters.

Once, I had a friend who said Sonic and knuckles was the best game of the series so on the day we were moving away I went over to say goodbye but secretly scratched a nail file over the contacts of his S&K cart while he was in the other room getting my going away present.
I don;t know if it worked but fuck him and fuck Sonic and Knuckles.

>>4353713
The sprite itself is fine, it's just the palette that's weird. Cyan Sonic? Wtf.

I never really liked the Sonic 3 sprite.

>>4353743
The first one was the only good one, but I thought they all had pretty decent aesthetics and animations.

>>4353713
I think that's a bit much.

>>4353753
Holy shit that is some raging autism, even by Sonic standards

>>4353763
>>4353765

At least I am passionate about what I like. I can't imagine what it would be like to live in a state of dull acceptance.

>>4353762
Advance 1 was good, Advance 2 was all about going fast, Advance 3 is the best game in the Sonic franchise.

You need to revisit it. I thought it was the worst too. Get past the initial bump of hating the hub world

>>4353814

I'm pretty passionate about what I like, and I don't really care for the hue used for Sonic Mania's sprite either, but you're having an aspergers meltdown over it.

>>4353814
Sure, whatever helps you going on with your life, sonic boy

>>4353872
Look, I've been a fan for years and years. I can't expect someone who probably didn't get into Sonic before the Dreamcast to understand it as deeply as I do so I'll give you a pass.

>>4353753

3 = 1/CD > whatever

Most importantly CD has the god tier propelling animation.

>>4353929
Sonic CD is awful. It's barely better than Sonic 1

>>4353932
Aww what's wrong? Marble and Wacky Workbench played with your peewee neewee again?

>>4353932
You say that as if Sonic 1's sprite wasn't the best one.

>>4353713
>complete betrayal
A complete overreaction.

>>4353713
Sonic Team hasn't put out a decent game in decades.

>>4353842
Okay, just no, the level design in SA3 is absolute garbage and I can't believe you'd consider it the best in the franchise.

The Advance series is the only modern-day Sonic I'd even *consider* taking a look at.

Now, fellow /vr/Troopers...Tell me why I should care about this "Sonic Mania" nonsense?

>>4353990
It's your usual classic Sonic goodness. Quality thins out a bit by the end of the game, but overall, it's one of the better 2D Sonic, often tied with Sonic 3 for many people.

>>4353753
Jesus dude, its one thing to be passionate and another to be a autistic fuck when you see someone liking something you dont.

>>4353570
I like spinballs 2d sonic best. Probably because the game is the most dark one, the sound effects are the best and the animations are epic.

>>4353753

>>4353990
The new zones actually understand Classic Sonic as opposed to Generations, Sonic 4 or the Advance series. Would feel like a true sucessor if it didn't rely on nostalgia so fucking much.

>>4353982
The level design in SA3 is the best. But you don't realize this until you start to experiment with teams

>>4354029
Experiment all you want, it's still not true.

>>4354000
>>4354018

Fuck you guys. You don't have any real love for your hobby. At least I show a bit of courage when someone insults the games I love.

>>4354036
Yeah no, you're a faggot is what you are.

>>4354036

>REEEEEEE! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

>>4354036
You threw a hissy fit cause he said he liked a game you didnt. There's no justifying this.

>people ITT not understanding why mania team chose the colors they did
The game is intended look like a game somewhere in between the 32X and the Saturn, with the color palette being a reference to Knuckle's weird palette in Chaotix.

>>4354039
He didn't say he liked it, he said it was the best game of the series. This is Sonic and Knuckles we're talking about. If someone said that to you, you'd shut them down. All I did was do it creatively.

>>4354041
Fag

>>4354036
Mate, people like you are the reason why I can only enjoy Sonic in secret.

>>4354040
I thought it was just hue-shifting. Hue-shifting in shading (shadows having slightly different hue than lit area) is a thing in modern pixel-art, but wasn't that much of a thing in 16-bit era.
So Sonic is teal when in light, and blue in shadow - it looks better, and has better contrast, and makes him stand out from environments more.
Also a lot of environments and enemies are red, and red and teal are opposite on the color wheel.

>>4353713
>he thinks sonic team still makes good games

shadow the hedgehog, the storybook games, sonic 06, unleashed, lost world and all those shitty shovelware games like riders would like a word with you.

>>4354051
People like you, who aren't even proud of being Sonic fans, disgust me. People want to know why the Sonic community went to shit? People like you.

>>4354057

Exactly. If I were in charge of whatever sister's-cousin's-uncle's-nephew's-brother division of modern Sega (Sega-Sammy?) has authority over Sonic team I'd have disbanded it out of shame long ago.

That, or completely nuked the staff.

>>4354063

...Why would we be proud of autism?

I mean, Jesusfuck, *are* you Chris-chan? You're seriously starting to make me wonder.

>>4354065
I'm actually kinda suprised that they didn't get purged when sonic 06 happened. i don't even think there has been a sonic game worse than that since.

that said forces is probably their last hurrah since sales of maina vs forces are probably going to dictate the direction the series goes

>>4354096
>i don't even think there has been a sonic game worse than that since.
They're hold right to win instead. Boring as hell.

>>4354057
>>4354096

Sonic 6 wasn't bad because of the design. It was limited by the hardware of the consoles at the time which were not powerful enough to handle what Sonic team were trying to do. If the technology was better you would be hailing Sonic 06 as a major milestone in Sonic games and maybe even the first true 3D platformer.
Sadly it was not to be, but you can't blame them for trying, even if it did result in a terrible game.

>>4354104

I can totally blame them for shitting out the abomination that is Sonic '06, Anon. How the hell could I successfully count all the ways in which I could blame them? I'm not sure one lifetime is enough to catalog all the blame; I might need a new body or cryonics first.

>>4354104
>If the technology was better you would be hailing Sonic 06 as a major milestone in Sonic games and maybe even the first true 3D platformer.
let's not get ahead of ourselves.

someone ported 06 to generations as a mod and while the gameplay was improved tremendously it still has it's faults that can't be fixed like the story

>>4354103
>implying "hold right to win" doesn't describe most 2D platformers
the games shifted to focus more on finishing with the fastest time rather than platforming

i can see why people wouldn't like that direction (lost world is an extreme of that direction) but going fast is part of what makes sonic sonic

>>4353570
Why aren't his arms blue?

>>4354135
>the games shifted to focus more on finishing with the fastest time rather than platforming

I feel like a lot of people maybe didn't understand that. I think a lot of folk misunderstood Nights in a similar way in that its really easy to clear stages but its really about getting a flashy score.
I guess high scores were out of fashion in 1995.

>>4354057
Puyo Puyo.

>>4353753
DON'T

>>4354096
Secret Rings was way fucking worse than 06.

>>4353713
>2 and 3&K were made by STI
nice bait tho

>>4353584
Is there a romhack that replaces it?

>>4353753
You sound like that Gold Box autist from the Baldurs Gate thread

>>4354036
>Secretly destroying your friends property is courage

>>4354357
i consider 06 to be the worst because of how broken & borderline unplayable it is.

granted i haven't played secret rings but based on my experience it would have to brick your console in order for it to be worse

>>4354391
what did they say? Forgotten Realms is a garbage setting

>>4353575

Where do you see more detail?

>>4354063
We're reaching levels of autism that shouldn't even be possible

So whats the consensus on Sonic Retro, should I just avoid it?

>>4353570
Sonic 2.
I don't have a problem with Sonic Mania though.
S3&K is the worst.

>>4353753
Trying to wreck your friend's game is retardedly autistic.

>>4354397
Sonic's controls fuck up about 60% of the time in 06.
Sonic's controls are flat out nonfunctional 90% in secret rings.

>>4353570
why is the mania sprite still genesis-scaled if it's running at 720p minimum?

>>4354429
Look at the shading. They're using more colors.

>>4354491

>>4353713

There's so much wrong with this post factually and logically, many people have already grilled you on it so I'll just add that you're either fucking stupid or baiting way too hard. It's fucking Sonic, the smallest things set people off, you don't need to try so hard man.

>>4353753
You can be a raging autist with poor taste, but don't impose it on others through tampering with their games.

I haven't played Mania yet. It looks fine, but why the need to make Sonic's color that bright?
I prefer the opaque look of Sonic 1's sprite.

>>4354041
If I didn't agree I would just say it rather being a bitch and trying to destroy a "friends" game without him knowing. You make all the chill people that like the series look bad. He'll I met some chill 30 something year old with a sonic shirt and kicked it off from there. You are irredeemable.

>>4354491
>>4354498
this pleases my autism

Mania is too light blue imo, but everything else looks good.
CD is the one i enjoyed the most, because of the animations Sonic had
And 3&K looks better in motion.

>>4354029
>clusterfuck that is Ocean Base
>Chaos Angel Act3
>some team paths are breakable walls for a shortcut
>enemy placement worse than Metropolis
>spike placement worse than any Sonic before
>ramps, boosters, damn rails rails and rails
>oh look! bottomless pits everywhere!!!!
>that amazing dimps design right before the goal with bottomless pits with platforming!

No, fuck you. SAdv1 was nice for a continuation of the classic in a different way and Adv2 had some fun stages but that game is hit-or-miss for many players. Not 3, 3 is mediocre at best.

>>4354810
I made one for walking animations too, but 4chan isn't letting me upload it. It's only 300kb so I don't know what the problem is.

>>4354386
S3K Complete, I think

>>4353753
Having a shit opinion is one thing.
Trying to wreck someone's cartridge for having an opinion different to yours is a whole new level of no. That's not just autistic, that's straight up dickish.

>>4353878
You really do sound like an autistic nigger who shat his pants when Adventure came out and Sonic had green eyes.

>>4353753
>I destroyed my friends property while he gave me a gift as a testament to our friendship as we would no longer see each other
You really are a nigger.

>>4354063
>People want to know why the Sonic community went to shit?
Because of you. Especially you.

>>4353753
Please don't reproduce.

Regards,
Humanity

>>4354491
Huh, I never realized Knuckles got tweaked between 3 and K.

>>4353743
I do too. Actually, not to say Mania is bad, but I would have preferred another Advance sequel over Mania.

>>4354040
No, Classic Sonic being cyan was established in Generations.

>>4355056
He was tweaked again for Sonic 2.
His grays and blacks are darker to better match the game.

>>4354840
Anyway I decided to just upload the lot to imgur. If you want to see the walking comparisons, they're there. https://imgur.com/a/pcmyE

>>4353814
>>4353874


Haha, sonic boy. Go fuck yourself in the ass... you gotta go fast!

>>4354002
I love it.

>>4353603

it's not pseudo 3D. it's called decent shading. something the sonic 1 and 2 sprites don't have.

>>4354429
Look at his left foot and compare it with the first three.
I'm counting two extra frames.

>>4353580
3&K > Mania > 2 > SCD > 1


And I loved 1.

>>4353580
>>4355219
Nah
3&K >= CD > 1 > Mania > 2

>>4355240
>1 better than Mania
>CD better than 2
>CD even close to par with 3&K

This is bait; it has to be.

>>4355240
>>4355219
>>4353580
1 > 2=Mania > S3&K > CD

Mania > CD = 3&K > 2 > 1

>>4354739
Thank god for mods.

>>4356213
So is Sonic Mania worth it if i'm not an autisitc purist?

>>4354498
Nice

>>4356264
Get a pirated version, legit version has Denuvo which has plenty of allegations against it

>>4354040
Post an acceptable version in future.

>>4353814
It's one thing to be passionate about shit that matters. It's another thing to get into a sperg fit over Sonic sprites.

>>4354036
There's nothing courageous about destroying a friend's game because you didn't like his opinion. You will never know the love of a woman.

>>4353710
Mania IS a official rom hack!
Why do you think more than half the game is rearranged versions of old stages?

>>4356589

This. Fuck Big Media up the ass every time they try their DRM shitecock.

>>4358570

I gotta agree, after taking a look at it. Is it a step in the right direction? Certainly. Should there be some sort of 100% original followup in the same style? Undoubtedly. But this product, when standing on its own two feet, is just a for-pay ROMhack. Not quite enough that I'd drop coin on it, with how many "Oh, ALMOST!" moments the franchise has had, quality-wise.

>>4353580
Mania > 3&K > 2 = CD > 1

>>4358594
>Is it a step in the right direction? Certainly.

I disagree. It needs more original content and the levels need to be more arcade oriented, shorter and more action packed while still allowing room to explore. It used S3&K level design, but made it even more cramped together.

And the bosses were all ranging from annoying to full bullshit.

>>4358642
>It needs more original content and the levels need to be more arcade oriented, shorter and more action packed while still allowing room to explore.
That's exactly its level design though.
https://youtu.be/zk_svOcynJ8
The level design overall has less shit going on in it than S3&K, and I honestly think that's a good thing. Marble Garden is too fucking big and puzzle oriented.
>And the bosses were all ranging from annoying to full bullshit.
The bosses are the easiest of the classics. The only one remotely challenging is the Oil Ocean act 2 boss.

>>4353753

don't worry, anon. I know you were trolling.

>>4353713
Hey Chistine

>>4358570
As much as Forces is an official rom-hack of Generations then.

>>4357848
>There's nothing courageous about destroying a friend's game because you didn't like his opinion. You will never know the love of a woman.
this. is. truth. learn from this anon.

>>4353753
>Master System Sonic
>Being better than Sega Genesis Sonic
I know this is bait, but damn.

>>4354041
People say >Insert whatever Megaman installment here< is the best game, even if I disagree, it doesn't mean I should try to destroy their stuff JUST because they don't hold the same opinion I do.

>Hurr, I know everything there is to know about this, my taste is better than everyone else's and anyone who disagrees better not let me into their home.

>>4359817
Not the other Anon, and I haven't played Forces, but let's look at things like this, because the tone of your post is pretty sarcastic.

Sonic Mania is the nostalgia trip no one asked for. It's easy to see and if it hasn't been for you and some others, I'll lay it out now.
>Rehashing stages from previous sonic games
>Re-using gimmicks from previous sonic games (Sonic CD mini-sprites)
For the first one, Generations and Sonic 4 re-used maps from the original Sonic titles. This is okay, except for the fact that we've all already played those stages. Green Hill is tired and deserves to rest. Sonic Mania had quite a few maps from various original Sonic titles, however, it expanded on the already known version of the map and added some new paths. This is okay and all, I guess it leaves some familiarity, but it really doesn't change the fact that it's still a shameful rip of already well known maps.
As for re-using gimmicks like the Sonic CD Mini-Sprites, it's pretty obvious why that was done. Tons of people talk about how great Sonic CD was. This is fine as well, except for the fact that Sonic CD has been made available to everyone through multiple platforms. Steam is one of them. You can purchase the Sega Classic collection for a decent price and play Sonic CD on your PC, you can even go with original hardware, as expensive as this is, and enjoy it that way. I've seen people emulate it on their phones, etc etc etc. It's not a new thing. Now, they did use this in other instances and it was cool in Sonic Mania, but it's still very evident that the option was picked only because of massive nostalgia.

It's a Rom-Hack anon. It's a Rom-Hack by a fan who added in some new content and with not a lot of new content, people still consider it a completely different game.

>>4353570
Sonic 3 and Knuckles, to me, looks like what Sonic should actually look like.

>>4360571
So much wrong with this post, I don't even know where to begin.

Read up on Sonic Retro and the huge classic fanbase it represents, Taxman & Stealth, Retro Engine, mobile ports of CD/S1/S2, the original PC port of Sonic CD, etc.

Also lol @ you shilling the horrid emulator sold on Steam.

>>4354036
No, you're a vandal, an asshole, and a videogame addict. You're probably the guy who goes onto a forum for an old game on Steam and says "IF YOU DONT ADD ACHIEVEMENTS I WILL GIVE NEGATIVE REVIEW CHINK CHINK CHINK!"

>>4360632

>Read up on Sonic Retro and the huge classic fanbase it represents, Taxman & Stealth, Retro Engine, mobile ports of CD/S1/S2, the original PC port of Sonic CD, etc.

And all of that jazz is well and good, Anon. But like other people have pointed out in this thread; stop playing it so goddamn safe. Stand on your own two hind legs, and release a 100% original Sonic game. There's no reason to hide behind whole coat-closets full of nostalgia homages anymore. These guys appear to be the real deal and they need to be allowed to take flight.

>>4360645
>and release a 100% original Sonic game
You mean Freedom Planet?

>>4360645
>release a 100% original Sonic game
Taxman & Stealth aren't Sonic Team/Sega and can't do whatever the fuck they want with Sonic. They didn't even want Green Hill, the man on the pic forced them to do add it and the other remixed zones.

>>4360673

...And yet the criticism still stands.

Dude looks like the product of inbreeding, BTW.

>>4360632
>So much wrong with this post
Like?
>The huge classic fanbase it represents
Okay, yes, it does. Because it went back to 2D platforming, which is what we wanted.
>Taxman & Stealth
Not Sega or Sonic Team. They don't have full freedom with the Sega mascot.
>Retro Engine
Doesn't matter what it was done in, that changes nothing. As long as the game works, it's a game. Could have been done in UE4, Havoc, Build, whatever, it doesn't matter. As long as it still worked when I want to play it, the engine doesn't matter in terms of its originality. The engine is just the basis for what can and cannot be built. This has no baring on them remaking the original levels. No point in bringing this up.
>Mobile ports of CD/S1/S2
Again, what does this have to do with anything? I already addressed that the original levels are done to death
>Original PC port of Sonic CD, etc/ Shilling the horrid emulator sold on Steam
I wasn't shilling the steam version. I was talking about how easy it was get and play, which you've shown there are more ways to play it than I mentioned, hence why I don't care for the gameplay gimmick being reused in yet another Sonic RomHack, otherwise known as Sonic Mania.

On the same note, there was also some original content in Sonic Mania. But having a heavy amount of old content in it is what makes me call it a RomHack. Unless its all new stages, even with only the standalone genesis title's game mechanics, S1/S2/S3/S&K, it's still just another Romhack. I could see a few nods towards the old stages here and there, subtle things. But straight out copying the levels and then just adding some more paths? That's not a quick nod towards the classic series. We call that an Extended version or and expansion pack.

>>4360679
Do you know who these people are?

The classy dude on the left is Yuji Naka, the original leader of Sonic Team and the goblin on the right is Takashi Iizuka, the guy who tagged along since Sonic 3 doing random low level stuff.

Now he's in charge, since Naka left to do his own thing and continue to be awesome. Sonic's fucked and you know it.

>>4360743
>romhack meme

Please be retarded somewhere else.

>>4360763

>contrasting them so starkly

Anon, y u do dis?

>>4360763
Not defending Izuka, but wasn't Naka a huge asshole who basically stopped Sonic X-treme because he didn't want baka gajins using his engine?

>>4360790
Sonic X-treme got cancelled because it was shit. The prototypes have been leaked, see for yourself.

>>4360790
Baka gaijins will believe anything and have a huge victim complex because they're baka gaijins.

>>4360790

Everyone is flawed and nobody is a saint. Naka has a fucking huge ego. But I'll still take him over ol' gooklum there.

>>4360926
Bullshit. X-treme could well have saved the series from its ultimate fate. It would have been ahead of its time. It may have been the inspiration for Mario Galaxy and as shit as that turned out it doesn't mean that it would have been that way for Sonic.

>>4360956
>Savage insane monster corrupted by an evil artifact still manages to maintain a bikini-top
Why are you yanks so scared of nipples? You use them to feed kids for fuck's sake.

>>4361094
can't tell if serious so I have to go with no

>>4360772
>Again not proving me wrong
Either show me where the logic breaks down or fuck off.

>>4360763
>>4360956
Naka had fuck all to do with designing the game though. He was the code monkey. And you can tell how well he did his job from the fact that Sonic games were always infamous for their collision bugs, as well as some other game breaking issues.

Plus Naka had an over inflated ego. Even in 1991 he thought of himself as the second Yu Suzuki. There was the development fiasco for Sonic 2 which caused the game to be developed in the USA, there's the X-treme thing, and so on. And he was busy building his Ferrari collection while not producing a good Sonic game since the 16bit times.

yeah, Naka can get fucked.

>>4360926
>>4361094
X-treme was a collection of tech demos to build a game out of, basically a bunch of attempts to feel out the hardware using Sonic as a placeholder graphic.

Saturn had no Sonic game, so suddenly this project got bumped up and the guys were told to make a game. They had no precise design document, no idea on how to make the game playable, they just had a bunch of "this could work pretty cool" concepts.

It got cancelled because of internal mismanagement, because it was never on track as a project at all, and because everyone expected it to deliver a 60fps 3d game like Sonic Adventure, when the hardware was extremely ill suited for that. They asked the team to start from scratch and throw out months of engine works multiple times.

The team was still working on an engine, and still had no game design document up until the last second when the lead coder got pneumonia from overworking himself. At that point they cancelled it and moved on to porting Sonic 3D, so the console can get a sonic title for 1996 xmas.

It would've been impossible for X-treme to became a good game because they never even knew what kind of game it would need to be, beyond "a 3d sonic game".

>>4360763
Naka literally threw a shit-fit so hard that he went to Sega of America to make his Sonic 2. I don't know how autistic you have to be to go to those lengths

>>4354036
it's imperative for my brain cells to keep working that you are trolling us right now.

>>4362430
Never overestimate the intelligence of someone talking about video games on the internet.

>>4354429
Highlights, more colors for shading

Fuck Iizuka, what a worthless excuse for a human being.

>>4363856
He was only trying to stop Mania team from going TROOOOOOOO FRAAAAARRRRR

Anyway what would you fags like to see in a Mania 2, other than all completely original zones of course.

>>4366251
Bosses that fun to kill without abusing the ring loss invincibility. And just better bosses in general, without all the bullshit chase scenes that take forever.

I hate how Mania Sonic looks like he's made out of the same shiny plastic materials as the characters in Sonic Adventure DX. Why did they make him so neon? And why was Knuckles pink?

>>4366251
Remixed Game Gear/Master System zones

>>4366251
Tails and Knuckles as AI partners at the same time.

>>4366251

How Iizuka held onto his series director job after Sonic 06 is completely baffling. How he still holds it after every one of his 'big ideas' to get a new audience into Sonic falls flat on its face is similarly odd. If Forces is the trainwreck it looks to be I would hope that would do it, but who fucking knows?

>>4366251
zones themed after modern Sonic games but with pixelated Mania flavour, and a playable classic Amy with her Sonic Advance moveset, like what E-122 did with romhacking.

Also this
>>4367809

>>4360571
>not a lot of new content

I mean, except for the level layouts. but who gives a fuck about gameplay right lmao i too only judge games by tilesets