/vr/ - Retro Games

BG1's early game is rough unless you know what you are doing. It's why I preferred Icewind Dale to it.

>>4350523
bullshit, Baldur's gate is easily of one the worst games with the shittiest combat system I ever met.

Fuck that kind of games, they are so terrible that I really felt a deep rage when I remember trying those games thanks to the hype of this board.

>>4350523
This shit again.
When Baldur's Gate came out, hardcore crpg players reacted with disgust because it heralded the whole genre being dumbed down and opening the floodgates to moronic normals who couldn't handle real RPGs.

Sure enough, within a couple of years the whole genre was ruined with oversimplification, hand holding, and betrayals of the core concepts of RPGs.

>>4350570

Tell me more.

>>4350589
>hardcore crpg players
Vince, Age of Decadence is really awful, go fuck yourself.

The Goldbox games were more fun.

>>4350610
This is exactly what I am talking about.
Baldur's Gate poisoned the whole genre and it wasn't long before shit like dialogue wheels and romance sub-plots started to be considered as 'rpg elements'.

OP, you are a complete shithead and a fucking cancer on this race for liking Baldur's Gate. You, YOU, activity contribute to the ruin of a beautiful genre, please fuck off.

I always found the Gold Box games to be more enjoyable, although their respective interfaces might feel rather clunky if your first experience with computer D&D adaptations includes anything that uses Infinity Engine.

I have too many gripes with the design choices made with IE games, like labeling stolen goods as "fenced," even though NPCs shouldn't have any realistic way of knowing whether or not a random item in your inventory were stolen in the first place. The designers evidently thought they were correcting a perceived imbalance in class design; these sort of "imbalances" were in fact intended from the earliest editions of the game. Thieves are supposed to be balanced out by having low hit points and shit fighting skills.

Part of what made Baldur's Gate work was that it didn't take itself too seriously.

It wasn't an orthodox D&D experience. It had silly shit, gratuitous crossovers, and some extreme personalities. A friend of mine remarked once that Gorion's voice sounded like a Saturday morning cartoon character's, and that's exactly what it all felt like.

On the other hand, the games' plots weren't dumb. Simple yes, but well-carpentered. The characters' motivations were straightforward and understandable, and the villains were intimidating.

Mechanically, it had a ton of issues. It took a long time for modders to work out all the bad scripts in the two games, especially BG2. It's a much better game now with fan patches than it was at launch.

>>4350619
Except there's no game master to put this shit in check and finding a fencer in Baldur's Gate 2 can be done without even moving out of the Waukeen Promenade, which means that you can hit 2 million gold without even hitting Chapter 2. Also, there's no "fenced goods" check for anything that you stole from a locked container, which is where most people find their use for a thief anyway. Pickpocketing still rewards you greatly even without any abuse, so I wouldn't say it's that bad.

>>4350615
Where the fuck do you get the transition from Baldur's Gate (or Planescape, or Fallout, or most fucking RPGs) dialogue lines to dialogue wheels? Would you prefer all RPG dialogues to be done in the keyword style of Ultima or TES?

This is retarded, it's like blaming Ultima Underworld for Skyrim.

>>4350634
>Part of what made Baldur's Gate work

There is no part of Baldur's Gate that 'works'. It does not reflect D&D, but that's not the point. It undermines RPGs as a whole. Consider how linear it is compared to a true RPG like Ultima IV or V. There is no challenge or enjoyment in following a linear plot thread and levelling up at almost predetermined points along the way. You might as well be playing pac-man: going down straight corridors, being fed the exact prescribed amount of experience, and going to the next level in time for the next set of corridors.

How can anyone say that Baldur's Gate 'works'? You are stuck with a set list of pre-determined, pre-written party members in a pre-written plot having a pre-arranged 'experience'. It's hideous compared to what RPGs could have and should have been had it not come along and had filth like you not suckled at its teat for twenty fucking years intil your so spoiled by its milk that you can't get nourishment from anything else.
If I met you irl I would hit you with a bat, i swear.

>>4350648
>pre-written plot having a pre-arranged 'experience'.
name a game that doesn't have those

fucking Ultima 4 that you love so much has pre-written party members, unless Iolo, Shamino and Dupre are somehow not some of the most iconic and recurring RPG characters in the history of the genre

>>4350646
The 'immersive' dialogue of baldur's gate is evidence of its linearirty and oversimplification of the RPG genre. This, in turn, needed to be simplified as the genre was laid open to deeper and deeper levels of cretin, which led to the wheel.

You think Skyrim came about by accident? That slime can trace its oily trail right to the foot of Baldur's Gate.

>>4350652
The only 'recur' in the shitty, later Ultimas. Funny, those came about when Baldur's Gate was in development... almost as if the very genre was convulsing in a desperate attempt to off itself at its peak.

>>4350653
>The 'immersive' dialogue of baldur's gate is evidence of its linearirty and oversimplification of the RPG genre.

I bet you suck Fallout's cock too when its dialogue lines were pretty much the same.

>>4350648
>If I met you irl I would hit you with a bat, i swear.

This makes me sad, my old 4chan folder was lost so many years ago and I just realized I haven't even seen it posted on 4chan in that whole time, I haven't had a chance to save it. So, I have to resort to
>saythattomyface.jpg

Ahaha, what a punk post from a chucklefuck.

>>4350657
No, fallout is an absolutely abysmal game and you are scum for liking it.

Besides many other points, it is one of the serious genre betrayals for bringing so-called post-apocalyptic settings into focus after Wasteland tried and failed to ruin RPGs by insisting that postmodern garbage genres should be considered for inclusion. There are only two true modes: classic fantasy, classic sci-fi. Anyone who thinks this is not true should self-terminate.

>>4350654
>shitty, later Ultimas
Ultima 5 you love so much literally fucking starts you off with Shamino saving your life from an arrow and you reuniting with Iolo.

There's also this screenshot from U6

Holy fuck you're retarded, make your own Ultima 4 thread since that's probably the only game you've ever played

>>4350665
Most ultimas are medium quality at best. Wizardry is the true series.

OP here

Jesus Christ some of you guys are downright retarded lol

I never said BG was perfect or better than the gold box games, just that I like it. Yeah I get it BG is entry level Crpg so what? It's still good. I've played the Ultimate games, Goldbox, Wizardry, realms of Arkania betrayal at krondor blah blah blah. If you want to talk about those games go make another thread

All of the hate in this thread masturbatory echo-chamber tier nonsense.

The best you guys can come up with is excuses for why Ultima 4 doesn't really poke an obvious hole in your awful theory because "BG was in development".

I'm not even in the thread to defend BG, just pointing out the detractors as narrowminded retards claiming to actually know a patrician choice when they see one.

>>4350648
Get a grip. This was '98–'00. It was tough enough to make the game that they did with the amount of content there was. Opening up the field means more variables and more things that can break.

And you know what? Linearity isn't evil. Some people like campaigns and static stories. And not every game that came after followed the Baldur's Gate thread.

>>4350672
>I like it.
There's your problem.

>>4350672
>If you want to talk about those games go make another thread
They are being used to discuss Baldur's Gate.

>>4350681

Not OP but clearly it's just your problem.

>>4350679
>Opening up the field means more variables and more things that can break.

Maybe they shouldn't have done it then? All that has happened is more so-called opening up and it's left the path clear for broken messes like skyrim that normals champion.

>>4350683
This is the price of progress. You can't always improve everything at once. Sometimes you can revamp the engine, sometimes you can upgrade the visuals, other times your publisher will let you run with your ambitious new ideas.

>>4350686
All I want is for Baldur's Gate to be seen as the trash it is.

And maybe for OP to feel a modicum of guilt.

>>4350687
You would be better off using your time to learn a new skill, broaden your general knowledge, or cleaning your residence.

>>4350690
You're right. As a Baldur's Gate player, the OP is hardly human enough to have an emotion.

>>4350687
So you're literally a STOP LIKING WHAT I DONT LIKE kind of person.

>>4350523
>Why are the games so good?
Question actually asked by the OP. That's the kind of person we're dealing with.

>>4350646
>Except there's no game master to put this shit in check

There's no need for proactively adjusting the contents of the game world. Just don't leave expensive magical items on NPCs early in the game.

And if you want to get technical, there's nothing stopping you from cloning and importing characters to dupe whatever expensive or overpowered items you've already collected.

It's a great game, op, despite what the hilariously autistic guy says and threatens to hit you with his michelin fat arms holding a bat.

Though BG2 was better in pretty much every other way, what I liked more in I was the sense of exploration of woods, areas that had nothing to do with the main story, and meeting various characters and creatures.

>>4350687
It's objectively one of the best things in the history of gaming, no matter how one feel about d&d or rpgs in general. Nothing personal little one but you're literally retarded.

>>4350589
What are the "core concepts of RPGs"?

>>4350589

>>4350648
>If I met you irl I would hit you with a bat, i swear.
you'd have to leave your house

>>4350672
he's clearly a troll or a shill, just ignore him

>>4350523
they have a good mix of freedom, detail, and structure, which is hard to get right

>>4350523
Does anyone happen to have the BG1/2 and IWD osts. iirc they used to come with the old discs, but now they're 10$ each on steam.

I'm not copping that.

>>4350664
You are a typical chan poster. You barely read the replies you get and the longer your reply chains go the less you make sense. The person you replied to never wrote they like fallout 4 but you somehow think just because they wrote the words fallout 4 that it auto means "super like omg don't stop plz"game.

>>4351684
>people who disagree with me are trolls

People can and do have differing opinions. Just because their opinion is different from yours doesn't mean they're out to get you.

I don't slam people for enjoying BG, but it definitely isn't a faithful adaptation of D&D rules. For that, it would have to be strictly turn-based. But that's not really the issue at hand. BG plays out like a poorly balanced campaign. The games heap you with overpowered magical items that make every character a munchkin.