/vr/ - Retro Games

>>4310616
Because the Ultima games are the best RPGs and the Underworld spin-offs in particular were the most immersive of all the games in the series. I still consider them the best dungeons crawlers ever made.

Are there any mods or emulators like Nuvie and Exult for Underworld series?

>>4310628
Not that I know of, but DOSBox works perfectly fine once you get it setup.

>immersive sim
Forced meme. It's called a first person RPG.

>>4310616
>Why is Ultima Underworld one of the best immersive sims there is Anons?
Is not one of the best. It's the first one.

>>4310667
>Is not one of the best. It's the first one.
Bullshit. Things like Dungeon Master predate UW. And UW is damn good.

>>4310671
>Things like Dungeon Master
That's not an immersive sim.

>>4310867

Why not?

>>4310907
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersive_sim

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ImmersiveSim

>>4310616
I seriously had more fun with this than Skyrim.
It may have just been the sound effect and blood splatter when hitting enemies and timing of it all.

I remember spending like three hours learning lizard people language to solve that one puzzle on floor 3 or 4. Game was really a blast, would love for someone to make a modern version of something like this.

I never had a PC growing up until around 2003, but my friend suggested this game to me a few years back and it became one of my favorites of all time.

>>4311250

Arx Fatalis is basically the unofficial sequel to Ultima Underworld. Make sure you get the Arx Libertatis mod if you're running on a modern system.

>>4310920
>http://tvtropes.org

>>4310628
>>4310658
Some fanmods were made, but they all gave up or went netdead. I remember one that used the unreal engine and turned everything into 3D objects, and made all the people have small floating heads with fat bodies.

>>4310616
Im planing to play it properly after I finish System Shock. Im already used to controlls, so it should be a breeze.

>>4310616
>2965 stones free carry weight
>cheated strength
>immersive
okay

>>4310616
Immersive this? Give me good examples.

>>4314027
https://youtu.be/TpuTbxkaZ94
Watching some gameplay should give you a good idea.

Reminder that the guys that did this also did Thief 1 and 2.

>>4310616
I'm ashamed to say it, but I've been play System Shock enhanced edition with the mouse look.

Does Ultima Underworld have mouse look?

>>4317010
Ultima Underworld is played with just a mouse, save for a few commands (unless you're a weirdo who prefers to use the keyboard for normal shit). You can look up or down using the keyboard.

>>4310628
I recently found UnderworldExporter: https://github.com/hankmorgan/UnderworldExporter
It's the furthest anyone has gotten porting UW, that I've seen.

>>4317961
The best way is to combine mouse and keyboard.

Is there any way to use the mouse normally? I literally get headaches from lagging mouse.

>>4317961
Don't you have to press Shift and J to jump?

>>4318430
Yes, this is gross.

>>4317010
No, it only has partial mouse look. You can turn side to side by holding the left mouse button and move the cursor to the left and right in the view window, but looking up and down requires pressing 1 or 3 (or 2 to center) on the keyboard to tilt the view in large degrees at a time.

>>4318430
Both mouse buttons have to be pressed at the same time to jump. So, run forward with left mouse, then at the right moment hit right button to leap forward.

The controls of UW are one of the biggest barriers to enjoying the game for players of modern FPSs. Anyone who grew up using the now standard mouse look/WASD control scheme will probably find Underworld cumbersome. I would say it only takes a little practice to get used to it, but then again I grew up with the Underworlds and the control scheme is second nature to me.

>>4317990
>Unity

>>4317010
Taking half an hour to get adjusted to the controls of System Shock > the mouse look mod

Mouse look mod is pretty cumbersome by comparison

>>4318616
How's it cumbersome? All I have to do is press E and it switches from mouse look to menu navigation

>>4318221
The mouse shouldn't lag. Maybe it's a problem on your end like your computer being too slow.

>>4318430
You only have to press J to jump. Shift+J is a standing jump forward which is useful in platforming sequences.

>>4318653
it adds a layer of having to press a button vs being able to just immediately drag and drop anything on the screen at any time

>>4318653
>>4318664
It sounds like basically SS2 controls.
I liked SS2 inventory controls

>>4318656
Oh, no, definitely not too slow. But the problem which I'm talking about is inability to move the mouse up/down when it's already moving right/left or vice versa. So inability to move the mouse at a slope.

>>4318657
I have to say I really did like the games platforming sections and pressing shift+j was not a problem.

What's a challenge for UW1?
I'm considering playing the PS1 version but I'm not interested in another cookie cutter high STR+sword characters.

how is this different from might and magic?

>>4318525
Your point?

>>4320139
You mean Dark Messiah? Because otherwise it's nothing like Might and Magic.

>>4320148
the biggest difference is you have multiple heroes instead of 1 hero.
and m&m isn't a dungeon crawler, but the early ones were

>>4320140
That unity is shit

>>4311281
I honestly found Arx being bland and boring as fuck. Tried to mix UUW1 with Thief1, ended up being a mediocre mashup with a couple of pointless gimmicks (drawing, which is nullified via precast, and cooking, which is just pointless through and through). Layouts are somewhat okay though, I'd give it that.

>>4320134
Ive seen playthrough of STR+sword, augmented by magic build. It looked kinda bland. You may want to invest into magic or dex more.
Magic system is fun imo. Collect runestones and put them together to cast different spells, each rune corresponding to different attribute.
Also, if memory servs correctly, your first playthrough will be with unoptimized character, unless you look up walkthrough.
Its because of how game throws more specific mantras your way as you progress deeper and deeper.
So you will probably play twice, first time ending with unoptimized char in the end, second time knowing all mantras and being able to spec it exactly how you want to.
Besides that, I think its mostly exploration, talking with others, some riddles maybe? I remember part of the story being a huge fetch quest for different items scattered through the whole abbys that you normally wouldn't consider important.

>>4320280
Drawing and cooking was what initially got me interested in that game.

>>4320280
You can only have 3 spells in memory at a time, which makes a huge difference in some of the tougher fights. It's not a gimmick.

>>4314827
I saw the video and did not impress me. Looked like U7 but in 3D. I was expecting something more impressive.

>>4320367
I've played through the game half a dozen times including minimum strength and a stealthy approach.
I know the Abyss like the back of my hand and could probably beat the PS1 version even if I couldn't read Japanese.
I might try a no-magic approach but even that won't proof a huge challenge unless you completely avoid magic items as well.

>>4321108
Can you beat it without leveling up?

>>4321163
You automatically level up by reaching certain milestones.
Without training? There's only a handful of mandatory fights you should be able to win just with wands and scrolls. Lacking lore might make it difficult to identify things.

>>4321182
You would be able to test wands at least at the cost of a charge by just shooting them at something.

But I'm more dubious as to the ability to survive Level 7 without any training at all.

Do you guys - as fans of this game - agree with Spoony when he said you have to beat this game to be able to call yourself a true gamer?

>>4321232
I've gone through most of level 7 without battle as part of the stealth attempt with a Dex 30 bard.

>>4321251
Yeah, but you're going to face Tybalt, even if you can destroy his orb and reactivate your magic, he's tough and lobs a lot of nasty offensive magic, Granted, I don't go for the super hardcore sort of play, bit I've had trouble just rushing him, and usually lob a time stop to end his offensive magic.

>>4321238
I dont give a shit about this elusive 'true gamer' title, and care even less about some fagots hot opinion.

>>4321251
Beat the game with no training, naked and fists only.

>>4321290
Not to mention he's too retarded to play UW2 but feels entitled to make a video about it anyway, complaining about stuff that UW1 handled worse.

>>4321238
spoony is a faggot

>>4321291
Monk sounds interesting enough.
Trying to fight Tybalt, Rodrick or the golem without anything shouldn't work.
Shepherd is probably the most fitting class.

>>4321238
>Spoony
What is this?

>>4323524
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYTit60G6Hk

>>4323581
>playing for the plot

>>4323581
>that self glorifying intro
>that LARP parts
>all of that whining
Yeah, its your typical YT game reviewing celebrity, nothing new under the sun.

>>4310616
>Really, really loved this game back in the day.
>See thread
>Hey, lemme replay it
>Get down to level 6, decide I can't bother finishing it.
>Maybe UW2
>Broke through the first two worlds, cleared out just about everything in the prison tower and Killorn keep, now finding excuses to stop playing.

I'm not even sure what happened.

>>4323621
git gud faget.

>>4324058
>>>/v/

Why do we have three Ultima threads?

>>4325201
>Why does a critically acclaimed and very popular retro video game series have a lot of attention on a retro video game board?
Were your mother and father brother and sister?

>>4325362
I'm asking because I think we might discuss it better if we were all in one thread.

>>4325373
Quite the opposite.

>>4325464
This way people can't decide in which thread to comment.

>>4325485
People can reply to whatever post they want. They can even make a new thread of their own if they feel like it.
If they are too retarded to do that it's probably for the better if they don't post at all and should probably leave 4chan as a whole.

Is Underworld the most replayable Ultima and/or the one that's aged the best?

>>4320256
Unity is just a tool. Lazy programmers who can't finish what they start are shit.

>>4326721
There's more alternative approaches you can take. The main Ultima games don't have skills and little choice for character classes. Even if you answer the gypsy differently, select party members in a different order you won't see a big difference. I think U3, SE and U9 have the biggest replayability.
Underworld isn't well balanced so most players opt for similar approaches but it's easier to try something different for a second playthrough.
Shorter length also plays to its advantage compared to massive games like U7.

What'd they add/change in the sequel?

>>4311250
No you fucking wouldn't like a modern version of something like this. It was awesome when you were 12 and nothing different existed. Today you'd say it's bullshit that a game expects you to write your own notes and learn a fake real langauge and would just look up shit on gamefaqs instead of using your own brain even for a second and lots of other reasons. You wouldn't put up with stuff today that you did back then. You want something that works today, play grimrock.

>>4310616

I played Arx Fatalis recently and everyone says that's Underworld. I've never actually played any of the Ultima games.

Should I try one?

I don't need graphics, I love CRPGs, I just wonder if the game mechanics stand up.

>>4328728
I have played the Grimrock games and they were pretty good.
I liked how Ultima Underworld had platforming and jumping around though. Made exploring fun. You could also fly with magic and stop time.

>>4328708
The engine is pretty similar. The storyline is of course, very different, and at least to me, this is the biggest change and improvement: Ultima Underworld stands alone and doesn't fit all that well into the rest of the series what with the new races in the Abyss and mentions of a settlement you've never seen in any other game, nobody recognizing you as the Avatar even when you're famous, them getting the names of the virtues wrong, etc. UW2 is more or less a direct continuation from Black Gate.

Character generation is slightly different, with how stats and skills are divided. There are a few new item types added, like jeweled daggers and maces, black swords, some food types, etc. Bartering works slightly differently, and there's a literal source of infinite income in UW2 if you're willing to fight in this one arena a zillion times. You gain skills by going to trainers instead of praying at shrines; also, trainers for almost every skill are available right off the bat, so unless you really want to pump up your Acrobat or Tracking skills, you can customize right off the bat. In UW1, you found the better mantras deeper in the dungeon, and you had to decide whether or not you wanted to hold of on boosting your stats or just get something right now, even if it wasn't as good.

Which brings me to what is perhaps the most important point, at least in my opinion. They're very differently paced. UW1 very rarely requires you to backtrack (The Gazer on Level 2 being a very notable exception). If you're strong enough to get to level whatever, you're probably strong enough to face the denizens, but not so strong that you can blow them away. UW2 has much more of throwing monsters in an area where you probably can't take them just then, and having to run away and come back when you're higher level. A lot of the early worlds that you visit in the gem can be beaten with little or no combat, but there's usually that one fight that's *really* hard.

System Shock is my favorite game of all time, original control scheme included. Am I gonna have an easy time sinking into Ultima Underworld or is it pretty different? Just curious before I buy it.

>>4328919
I went the other way around, from Ultima Underworld to System Shock, but I never had any particular trouble.

>>4328905
>UW1 very rarely requires you to backtrack
It's also a result of the layout.
UW1 is a linear progression of floors. Sometimes you have to leave out some areas until later but mostly you clear one level and then proceed to the next.
In UW2 you have a hub connecting to different worlds so the routes are shorter. The magic academy downright gives you an emergency exit in case you have trouble.

An important difference is the amount of skill points you can get. In UW1 you were lucky if you managed to maximize Attack, Defense, Sword, Casting, Mana and Lore while in UW2 you can learn twice that much.
> you found the better mantras deeper in the dungeon
I'm not sure if they were really better. Sneak and Traps are found on level 5 and those are useless.
The magic mantras are also only acquired on floor 5/6 but Mu Ahm does a decent job to teach those skills.

>>4329262
True about the mantras. I was mostly thinking of the specific weapon ones. You only get them on Level 4, and you might wander around a bit before encountering the Knights. You really want to specialize in something rather than spreading your points around.

>>4329297
You get Attack on floor 2 as one of the first skill specific mantras and Defense on 3 which are a good choice.
If I want to specialize I typically want to know what weapons are good before ending in a dead end with shit like missile.

>>4310616
I still think that dagger fall is better
Come at me fags

>>4329320
ES does a ton of shit that UU doesn't, but pound--for-pound UU is more interactive. I think that's what I prefer about it. There's more crammed into less space.

>>4330764
I like that there is not a ton of story like books and books of stuff that I will never read in game explaining the lore and junk.
I wish Bethesda would just make different worlds instead of using TES setting. I feel like since I haven't read everything from the start I have no idea what is going in the world and there is just too much to try and take in.

>>4310907
>>4310907
>>4310920
Immersive Sim, also known as "0451 style" is a style of 3D first person game set in a world that obeys certain discreet rules, and where player is left to their own devices to accomplish goals however they want through usually many possible means.

Player always controls a single character who is their virtual avatar, and there's usually heavy emphasis on immersion, simulation, realistic interactive environments and realism, while removing as much videogame abstractions (like points, combos, cutscenes or predictable enemy AI) as possible.
Ultima Underworld is usually considered the first, and later titles like System Shock, Thief, Deus Ex, Dishonored, Tacoma and new Prey have built on that foundation. They are also often pretty story heavy, and their stories often touch upon philosophy or politics.

Immersive sim isn't really a genre, it's more of a style of game design shared by some developers, and games in this style have been stealth games, adventure games and RPGs, and more.

Ultima Underworld is ALSO a dungeon crawler, but while some immersive sims are too (e.g. System Shock), it's not by any means necessary, similarly often are RPGs but don't need to be.

Dungeon Master is not 3D, you control a party instead of a single person, environments are non-interactive (there's no e.g. windows to open or flowers to pick) and they're EXTREMELY artificial - it's just a maze of stone walls.
Immersive sims are based around removing things that remind you you're in a game, and Dungeon Master reminds you all the time.

So no, Dungeon Master is not an immersive sim.

How is Arx Fatalis?

>>4332248
I see a lot of threads lately about this on /v/. What's going on with immersive sim?

>>4328747
Underworld 1 and 2 are spectacular.

6 and 7 (as well as 7 Part 2) are debatable on a mechanical level, though MINDBLOWING on a world building and interactivity level.

So Underworld is an okay starting point for someone who knows nothing about Ultima?

>>4333681
Not much of a starting point, you won't know much about Britannia or the role of the avatar if you played it. But you can play it without knowing much.
There's some references you'll miss but nothing major compared to Ultima 5-7 or Underworld 2.

>>4333681
If you're playing for story then you basically need to play the whole series in order. Otherwise Underworld is totally playable on its own as it really doesn't have anything to do with the events of the rest of the series. It's considered a "spin-off" for a reason.

>>4333709
>>4335231
My question should have been if it stands on its own or not, which I guess it does

>>4335283
It was shoehorned into the series halfway through development.
Some aspects like the virtues are strongly tied to Ultima but others like the different races are completely out of place there.

>>4333094
Astroturfing for Underworld Ascendant whenever it gets released?

>>4335356
>notsureifjokingorretarded.jpg

>>4333094
It's just an awesome style of game.