/vr/ - Retro Games

Never seem the meme, but DKC1 had a lot of bullshit of you were a completionist. DKC2 is my favorite of the original 3.

>>4302815
I've never met anyone who legit thought it was bad, but it's common for people to parrot that Miyamoto despised it so they jump on the bandwagon. Afaik he never said those supposed remarks.

The only people I've know that says that DKC1 is bad are either contrarians or obnoxious dkc2 fanboys.

>>4302815
I don't think its bad but its visual style makes the edges of platforms and hitboxes vague and difficult to grasp, which is a pretty big flaw in a platformer imo. Wasn't a fan of many of the gimmick stages either, especially that flashlight one.

>>4302815

Not bad at all. 2 is just better but 1's fine.

>>4302815

who said it was bad? nintendo haters? what a surprise.

>>4302815
DKC1>2>>>>>>3

>>4302815
Incredibly avaerage for the first 20 levels so far. And some shit choices like crocs landing on your head out of no where.

https://www.vice.com/en_dk/article/exm9bn/donkey-kong-at-20-years-old-442
It's just so...empty and you only it because of graphics. Just admit it, dude.

I prefer it over 2.

2's aesthetic choices and its overuse of climbing stages turns me off.

>>4302815
it's /vr
tell me which game or console that isn't criticized and hated here

Because people like to think they are too sophisticated and elite to appreciate the smooth straightforward gameplay

>>4302815
I swear this gets asked so much that I should just make a copypasta answer.

So here's the story:

A long time ago, a rumor got started that Miyamoto had sour grapes over the success of Donkey Kong Country and remarked something along the lines of, "Donkey Kong Country is proof that people will tolerate mediocre gameplay if the graphics are good." He then went on to make Yoshi's Island with a "cutesy, crayon" artstyle as a way of thumbing his nose at Rare and DKC.

The rumor became so prevalent that Miyamoto was asked about it in a recent interview. Not only did he deny ever making that quote, but he went on record to say that he thought DKC was a great game. Of course, this didn't stop a bunch of contrarian hipsters and under-aged people from endlessly parroting the, "DKC has bad gameplay and was only ever considered good because it had good graphics at the time" meme.

That's it. It's all a meme

It's pretty good but nowhere close to its reputation. Most lazy-ass boss battles I've ever seen in a high-profile platformer. Second game is much better

>>4303197
This so much this. 2 is full of gimmick shit

People who were able to look past its style. The graphics were incredible when the game came out and the music was awesome, but now that the graphics are no longer impressive it's much easier for people to look at the game as it actually is and always was.

>>4302830
I can see that. All 3 DKC were great though in their own way.

>>4303689
And they see it as a fun and well crafted platformer on the SNES.

>>4303398
So everyone who levies complaints about the terrible jumping physics or the generally ugly aesthetic, are these people part of this conspiracy of willful ignorance or are they entitled to lodge actual informed criticism?

It's been my experience that many fans of this game might actually believe the former.

>>4303916
>terrible jumping physics
?

>>4303689

and yet it holds as one of the best platformers ever made.

>>4303905
>>4303942
Neither of those statements are true. Take away its visual presentation and music and DKC is an uninteresting and mediocre platformer on the level of things like Rolo to the Rescue and Bubsy.

The infamous and apocryphal Miyamoto "quote" that "gamers will put up with mediocre gameplay so long as the art is good" is an accurate description of the DKC series and always was.

>>4303208
Dreamcast?

>>4303916
>So everyone who levies complaints about the terrible jumping physics or the generally ugly aesthetic, are these people part of this conspiracy of willful ignorance or are they entitled to lodge actual informed criticism?

Almost everyone in present day makes fun of the "generally ugly aesthetic"; the sprites are based on 3D models which, like all early-90's 3D models, look creepy and have not aged well at all. That wasn't the opinion at the time when the game was released, but it's hardly a controversial opinion in 2017.

The "terrible jumping physics," however, is going to need further clarification because I'm not sure what you mean by that. Jumps feel fast, responsive,, and you aren't really bound by physics as you can control your jumps in mid-air. Feels like standard, solid 2D platforming controls to me

>>4302815
New gamer contrarians that suck at retro and usually only play graphic blockbuster games. Which is funny, because DKC was exactly that when it came out hahaha.
The boss battles could've been more inventive though.

>>4304178
The only reason they don't shit on the Dreamcast is because it's the only 6th gen console allowed and people don't want to be banned for 6th gen console war shit.

>>4304343
>That wasn't the opinion at the time
It certainly was mine. That's a snap judgement I admit, but it hasn't changed since its release.

And the controls feel extremely loose. You jump higher than other platformers but not as far, and you come down too quickly. I'll retract what I said when I said they were terrible but they are really really non-standard as far as platformers go. They're supposed to be a lot sharper and responsive, going from this to Super Mario World throws the sloppiness of DKC into sharp relief.

Furthermore I can't count how many times I've come down on an enemy and I'm the one dies because evidently the hitboxes and the models don't match up in a way that makes sense to me. Any questionable contact goes to the enemy's and never my favour. This is especially prevalent in boss battles.

I just honestly don't have the patience to learn these wonky physics over most other platformers with standard physics. Someone in this thread mentioned Bubsy and everyone seems to agree it feels off - that's precisely how DKC has always felt to me, and in a game with levels that are 90% bottomless pits this is immensely frustrating. I don't play it because I really don't enjoy it.

>>4303173
>Vice
Yeah I'm not reading an article by some trust fund kiddie.

>>4302815
DKC1 was good but DKC2 was the more polished version and I prefer it over 1

DKC was flawless at executing its design scope. DKC2 was bigger and in some ways better but falters a bit at drawing you into its world in the same way. DKC 3 much much moreso falters.

DKC 1 is the worst of the trilogy. I think it is a very good game though, but not great. Most of the levels are really enjoyable, but it has some bs secret locations. Also the bosses are pretty terrible. I think 2 is the best and I think 3 is like 2 and 1 went on a black out bender with Kiddy Kong's Quest being this sloppy beautiful mess that was left. So I don't get the anger over arguing DKC is the least of the 3. I could respect an argument for it being the best though I'd strongly disagree.

>>4304447


>Kiddy Kong's Quest


Man I should wake up more before I talk about retro.

>>4304148
Not them but it doesnt matter where you look when you're searching top game lists for the SNES, DKC is always in there. For such a 'seriously shitty game' with Miyamoto's "quote" that's evidently so well known which makes the game 'disliked' it really seems to find its way into the top of the SNES's games on everything. So, either those people pitching a bitch about the game are being contrarian according to people who were actually fucking there when the game was released, or they just don't know what they're talking about.

I'll give it to you, though, anon. You worked so hard for that post.

>>4304392
ur honestly just bad at games; you have full control of your character at all times and there's no delay. no one complains about the controls and no one decent at games dies enough in this game to find it frustrating.

Every new years eve, my buddies and I do a house party. It's not an established tradition that we bring two super neses over, with DKC.
The party gets divided into two teams, and the team that beats the game first gets a bottle of booze.

DKC has been literally the only game people get hype for. Kids, gfs, the occasional uncle that pops by. This game is a fucking classic.
thanks for reading my blog

>>4304392
Every platformer has different physics. And Diddy jumps further and comes down slower.
Jump slightly past the enemies and you'll hit them 100% of the time.
Come on man, I played all the Mario bros growing up and never had an issue with DKC

>>4304178
>>4304367
Dreamcast gets shit on here, too. It may be one of my favorite consoles, but even I have complaints about it. It was far from perfect and would have been much better had Sega decided to keep working with Voodoo for it.
Also, the controller is admittedly a little strange, not quite like the N64 controller, but somewhat similar in the fact that the controller isn't the most comfortable thing in the world. It had good and bad games, it gave rise to things like Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, which then sent Sega spiraling off into bad game territory with Sonic for the foreseeable future, until recently with sonic mania, but honestly that's more of a romhack and it wasn't even truly Sega.
There's plenty wrong with the Dreamcast. It's still a good console, hell, all of the consoles are good consoles, it just depends on what you want to play.

>>4302815
Basically DKC2>DKCTF>DKC3>DKCR>DKC1

>>4304392
How old were you when you first played? I was 9 or so, so none of these thoughts entered into my head. I just learned to line the bottom of my character's spinning jump up with the enemy's back or noggin or what have you. It wasn't an exercise in being pixel perfect. It was more like I'd automatically abstract the sprites into shapes and line those up. Also you learn where the cliffs are precisely because of the animation and voice when you're near one.

>>4304471
wow that sounds like fun and a way to keep the spirit alive

>>4304476
I had a pretty shitty experience with mine. Ended up getting Chef's Love Shack as one of the only games and it was awful.
Also remember the official Dreamcast magazine saying they were not going to abandon the system only for it to be abandoned next month.

It did have a few fun rentals like Jet Grind Radio. But ugh, nothing but bad memories with that system.

>>4302815

One is okay, two is the best, and three is usually skipped because of the changes made

3 is pretty alright

>>4302815
It's not a meme, it's an absolutely mediocre game with literally nothing special about it whatsoever.

>>4304657
I see nothing but buzzwords

>>4302815
I recently replayed it. It's not bad, but it doesn't really do anything very unique or special. It's pretty much the most basic platformer formula. Jump on enemies, collect 100 trinkets to get an extra life, etc. Some of the level design is frusturating, though. The zoomed in camera makes it very difficult to see what's coming ahead in some levels. The fish in Poison Pond are the worst offenders IMO.

>>4302815
Perfect storm, basically.

First off, two is seen as the best one, so there's going to be comparisons.

Then there's a certain set on the web who actually think that 8 or 9 out of 10 games are merely average, or even unplayable (yes, I have seen this. Mostly on gamefaqs though)

Then there's the revisionist history element, where games about the same level of popularity back in the day can be seen as worlds apart now. For example FFVII and OoT were on a similar level, but now FFVII is widely seen as a bad or mediocre game by a lot of youngsters, while OoT is the greatest thing literally ever that invented every gameplay mechanic ever and etc.

Lastly, a lot of noobs look things up on YouTube and base their knowledge of games on that rather than experience.

So you be a situation where a "le epic ye olde retrooooo gaymur" will play DKC and be all like "well 2 was mindblowingly amazing, and this is just an 8/10 game, so its literally unplayable! Just like my favorite youtber said!"

And before anyone gets anus twisted over this,grow some skin. Its the fucking internet for god sakes. I didn't break into your house and generalize about you to your face at gunpoint for fuck sakes. Have a laugh...

Its all true though. Young people are stupid.

DKC3 > DKC2 > DKC
fucking fight me

Same reason you see all the hipster bandwagoners going on about how SMB3 was actually a bad game because "You couldn't save progress!". They aren't getting "retro cred" among their friends for just owning retro hardware anymore, now they need to show they are more than the shallow Top 10 games on the console bandwagoners they are. So they look around for 8/10-9/10 games that aren't really remembered today or never got released stateside, and hold those up as being the GOTY for the console and the Top 10 games as being "actually flawed, it's just nostalgia talking when people say these games are good."

To put it bluntly, the hipsters have realized they have a great deal of company, and are trying hard to out hipster each other. And it's far easier to pick on a popular game you already know about then try to find a good game that doesn't pop up when you google "hidden gems for (x console)". One involves downloading and playing games and forming an opinion, the other just involves complaining.

>>4304672
I used a single word that could arguably called a buzzword, and even that's a stretch. I'm sorry your illiterate ass couldn't formulate an argument and instead had to smugly admit failure.

>>4304789
>muh hipster boogeyman
>s-stop pointing out flaws in my favorite game!!

>>4304803
>got no argument
>better greentext and imply
Guess I hurt someone's feelings.

>>4304882
I don't think that blog post would hurt anyone's feelings. Maybe one of those 'hipsters' you talk so much about would be offended.

>>4304748
I think you're right

Hey, who started the whole "I suck cuz hitboxes" meme? Hit boxes wasn't a buzzword when I was growing up.

>>4302815
It's not bad, it's just not very good.

>>4303173
>vice
You can't be fucking serious?

>>4305172
1999?

people are bad at games/playing it on emulators with their xbox controllers/don't know you're supposed to hold the run button.

>>4302824
Not only did he not say them, he's specifically gone on record to SAY he didn't say them.

>>4307640
Damn that means he really did say it and is just trying to save face

>>4306474
No, no little one. I played this a month after it came out. Back when the casuals were few in number. We fought them off as long as we could, but their numbers proved too many...so many....I can still hear the screams of agony "my games, my games" is all we could say..... the air filled with the caustic smell of casual tears...."me too, me too!" they cried.......they cried....

>>4307992
Jesus christ...

the game is at best a 4/10, level design is abysmal especially near the end of the game. Luckily the issue is mostly resolved by the second game, and is completely fixed for the third installment.

>>4309165
The OST tho https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKAc3nYEatw&t

>>4304148
>opinions can be true or false

You can say whatever you like, but I still think it's a good game. Maybe not as good as the sequel, maybe not the best platformer ever made, but I still like it.

>>4303173
>that article

Jesus fucking Christ. I'm not a dkc fanboy but that author apparently has a huge chip on his shoulder about Rare for some reason. At worst, it's average - characterizing it as a bad game is bullshit.

>>4303682
90% of all dkc levels across all three games are gimmick levels. Especially for the time they were released (wow, muh setting sun! It's raining! Turning the lights on and off! Gas powered platforms! Roller coaster level! Hot air balloons! Making your own platforms! Pirates! Canada!)

>>4309236
soundtrack doesn't fix broken gameplay
>>>/mu/ >>>/out/

>>4302830

same, with the addition of genesis fans who never let go of the console wars

>>4303173
>It's just so...empty

Thats Donkey Kong 64.

What the hell is all this crap. The Dong Cunt games have some of my absolute favorite platforming controls. They are almost too good and it makes the games pretty easy (Dong 3 was pretty difficult though because it just threw so much weird shit at at you). You can roll around everywhere jump high, jump far, see you fucked up and fix your jump most of the game. Its just a joy man. I love it.

As much as I like Chillidong on the Wii U, it is a solid platformer, I feel those controls are closer to what OP describes. It's like every button press is 100% a commitment and you see yourself fuck up in real time but be powerless to stop it because you already committed the press.

>>4309291
The gameplay is perfect, stop playing with your emulator controller and get gud

The only bad DKC is tropical freeze and the 3ds port of CR

>>4302815
It's shit because the best BGM only plays in one level.

>>4302815
Because it goes to shit by the halfway point of the third world with countless bullshit gimmick levels? Don't get me started on the conveyer levels where you had to grab fuel tanks, I dropped that shit harder than a brick after that considering that I spent 40+ minutes trying over and over to beat Poison Pond and having to go back to grind more lives, only just getting past it with the skin of my teeth and then getting slapped in the face with another goddamn world and it's even worse with the fucking gimmicks.

>>4310579
How are they bad?

Aside from not having the Kremlings and no animal buddies they are awesome.

>>4310951

git gud

>>4310951
>I dropped that shit harder than a brick

What did he mean by this?

>>4310951
>people need to grind levels in donkey kong, a platofrmer with some of the most solid controls on a gamepad that's near perfect for 2d games.
can you newfags just preface that you're 10 years old and are playing with a potato before making these embarrassing posts?

>>4311175
They're just awful at games. I beat DKC1 no problem when I was 6 or 7 years old.

>>4302815
Memes and misquotes are one part of it. But the reality is that the game didn't age well compared to DKC2 because a lot of the levels are very empty with slight variations on a gimmick. Most of it was variations on a theme. One level would be just platforming, others might have timing puzzles, the other might have barrel blasting, one might have an animal budy available. There were concepts but they were just used in different backgrounds and made more difficult while the levels that really stood out like the Factory and Minecart levels are still remembered for being good. Meanwhile in DKC 2, every level had a concept from world 1 on. They didn't fuck around. World 1-2, they push you immediately onto a vertical level. Then a water level. It's constantly throwing new ideas at you that every level is distinct and unique even when sharing backgrounds. That's why people feel the first aged poorly.

But then I'd argue Yoshi's Island aged terribly as well. That game is repetitive as fuck.

>>4311323
>the game didn't age well
Kill yourself

>>4310982
One of them is a 30fps port of a 60fps game.

The other is just cinematic garbage with irresponsible gameplay and blowing/pulling levers are an advertised feature in both games while they do not add anything to the platforming experience and are mostly used to stall for either loading screens or just in general pad gameplay. They also look like trash. They ape NSMB style in being as sterile and marketable as possible. The graphics are also worse than the original trilogy.

i don't think it's bad, i just think it's mediocre

>>4311384
Fifa 15 aged compared to Fifa 16
Get with the concept already.

>>4310951
They give you a buncha basic levels to cut your teeth on, then they throw in the challenge. I don't see the problem here.

Apocryphal or not, the Miyamoto quote nailed it
it feels like a crappy european platformer with then-fancy graphics, only now they look like vomit so there only thing that's left is a solid soundtrack to an extremely mediocre game.

>>4312496
that quotes been debunked ages ago. git gud.

>>4311970
The games themselves don't age, only the people's perception of them do

>>4307992
>>4307640
>>4302824
The primary source on Miyamoto saying DKC was "proof gamers would put up with mediocre gameplay in return for good graphics" (or something like that) is pic related by Stephen Kent, who describes an interview he did with Miyamoto and Tim Stamper where Miyamoto supposedly said that.

Considering that Miyamoto worked very closely with the Stamper brothers on the game, and that advising the art direction was his primary role, I am not inclined to believe he actually said this, especially directly in the presence of Tim Stamper as the book describes it happening. Either Kent's translator misinterpreted something very, very badly or it was made-up bullshit to begin with.

The thing is, this book is also the primary source for a lot of other common knowledge that gets floated around /vr/ circles, and it generally at least passes itself off as having good reportage. It makes me wonder how much of the book in whole is actually blatant disinfo.

>>4314223
Wrong.

>>4314240
Who cares what he has to say to begin with though?

>>4314793
It's very unlike Miyamoto to say something so directly negative about anything, least of all a game he's working and the general fandom to boot.

It should have been obvious it's fake/mistranslated given Shiggy always seems to strive to find something positive to mention whenever he's asked to give an opinion, so it's noteworthy that that quote was attributed to him for so long.

>>4314807
Yeah. Nobody in Japan can be critical about the industry because they live in a capitalistic society and produce capitalistic goods. So no quote like that would ever make it past the censors.

>>4314790
The games will never change, if you play them in 20 years from now they will remain exactly the same

>>4315131
also wrong. Plenty of games change.

>>4315298
Such as? You're just saying "you're wrong" without giving any examples or arguments

>>4315298
Nigga games dont change if theres no mods / new levels / etc
The data on the cartridge is the sams

>>4302819
What bullshit? There's like two or three bonus rooms in each level and you only have to enter them. KONG letters aren't needed for 101%. A level is 100% when it has an exclamation after its title.

>>4302830
I'm usually both but DKC1 is still one of my all time favorite games. I can't hate it at all.

so many bottom fraggers when it comes to dkc