/vr/ - Retro Games

Marketing

>>4306330
It was on PC too. Not just playstation. It was the first FF to be on PC and looked really amazing for the time.
I remember being really impressed by how clear the graphics for the summons were. It also sort of made RPGs cool

Before Final Fantasy VII I remember my cousin used to mock RPGs and would only play sports, fighting, or action games. But he was one of the first people to get hooked on FF VII and I think since then there has been less to no taboo about enjoying them.

>>4306330
The same reason why FF has always been a big name, marketing, shiny graphics, no entry barriers, an active pursuit of what's popular at the time, brand name power and whatever else, just like all big IPs really.
Mario's the same, the vast majority of the audience has always been casual players who're more susceptible to certain things than more "core" players.

>>4306337
The Ultima games came out first and were much more successful on PC.

I know it's hard to look back on it but seriously the game was sold on those pre-rendered FMVs. People were like "look at this holy shit" and bought the game on the strength of that alone, 8 year old me sure did.

It can't just be on "brand recognition" since it sold a million in Europe which hadn't had a FF game before and that was a huge deal at the time since PAL never got JRPGs releases.

>>4306414
Yep. That and I was really anticipating it due to FF6 being fucking awesome.

>>4306337
I like how you always have to remind us.

it's cool. it doesn't reek of weabbo like most every other jrpg

>>4306330
It came from the 'King' of rpg makers of the time? Squaresoft pretty much defined console rpg's for a long ass time. Enix too, but NA didn't get DQ1 (or Dragon Warrior as we knew it) 'till '89. Plus they were always in Square's shadow in NA. Japs loved them some Dragon Quest though (and FF). Don't really know which one they like more.

>>4306446
Also, Grandia is the only game rpg from that year I've actually played through and completed, so I don't have much to work with for comparison. It was good, but lacking in places. It had actual voice acting though. Good too, considering how early that was. I've started Wild Arms 1, but not done it yet. No comparison, btw. It's pretty rough, not shitty, just rough. Granstream Saga was a total top down action rpg so I'm not counting it. Never played Saga Frontier, heard good things though. The rest I never played or never known anyone personally that played 'em.

It made the PSX win over the N64, which is the reason Nintendrones hate FF7 to this day.

>>4306469
Not everything is a competition bro

>>4306330
The FMV/graphics were amazing for it's time. I can't say for certain but I'm willing to say it had the best graphics of any jrpg at the time of its release. The story was good enough to hook people. The materia system is easy to understand and master. The setting was interesting and neat. The story, although weird, was interesting enough to keep you playing.

It was a game that was very user friendly and seemed cutting edge.

>>4306335
fpbp

If you weren't a kid back in 1997 you wouldn't understand. Television didn't really play many video game ads and absolutely no RPG ads. So when your after school cartoons suddenly go to commercial and play:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru9zzFEdGWk

you absolutely lost your fucking shit. Everyone was talking about it before it came out and everyone was playing it when it came out.

>>4306405
No Ulitma game was ever considered “cool.”

>>4306520
This. I only heard of ultima because my 40+ year old D&D playing dad played it on our Commodore 64. Outside of that I've met no one who's played it.

>>4306508
But marketing can only take you so far. It can open the door and get you in but if the product is underwhelming/shit it's going to be remembered for that. That's not the case with FFVII though.

I agree marketing played an important part but the game had to do the leg work to make itself "the king".

>>4306330

Story, setting, and characters was everything right about 80's and 90's anime rolled into one. The designs are really phenomenal.

>>4306414
Not just that. Before release, we had a demo you could play through the whole prologue climaxing with the destruction of the Mako reactor or whatever. Characters had all their limit breaks and the Leviathan summon. That summon sold a lot reservations.

>>4306658
Summons were definitely what hooked me when I first saw it. It amazed me you could have this big demon dude who turned into a fireball.

I barely remember the cutscenes, but the prerendered backgrounds were amazing to me, each location feels special and I remember every town
summon animations, limit breaks, the soundtrack - it all just seemed so cool

>>4306681
and tinkering with materia was fun

>>4306439
I just barely remembered thinking back. Had always been a fan of RPGs, but before Final Fantasy VII they were seen for mostly nerds.

Blew my mind when I saw my jock cousin figuring out how to beat emerald weapon and coming up with special materia combos.

>>4306682
Materia is probably my favorite mechanic from Final fantasy.

>>4306694
>Blew my mind when I saw my jock cousin figuring out how to beat emerald weapon and coming up with special materia combos.
You mean empty except for counter and mime?

Marketing, FMV and the anime boom of late 90s

>>4306725
I think he did something where he cast knights of the round over with one character. Forget how it was done.

>>4306593
Full motion vídeo did the part.
As a game it's alright but there isnt anything revolutionary, there were already many rpgs in the market by 1997

I honestly think it was more the setting that drew people in.

>mfw seeing the gold saucer for the first time

>>4306832
WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
god knows how many hours I wasted there

Because it's a really, really good JRPG that was pushed really hard at the right time. If the game was purely mediocre/shit on its own merits we wouldn't still be arguing about it today with such reverence/disdain.

Here's why I bought FFVII.

>played FFVI at best friends house on snes
>it was fucking awesome

>go on vacation and see FFVII for 19.99 at toyrs R us
>buy it
>its fucking amazing

>>4306875
>If the game was purely mediocre/shit on its own merits we wouldn't still be arguing about it today with such reverence/disdain.
Nice nonsequitur, except that mediocrity is constantly revered and is the standard for the vast majority of things, precisely because it isn't extreme in any way and is palatable for the vast majority of individuals.
Considering the environment of media, and especially videogames, where it's all basically a huge echochamber of aggressive marketing and branding ruled by a handful of big corporations, it's no surprise people still talk about it today, and since there aren't any serious studies about videogames as a medium everything can be easily dismissed as an opinion from both sides of the dispute.
It's the same logical fallacy as sales numbers used to prove the supposed quality of a product, popularity doesn't prove anything other itself, otherwise we'd be all reading and praising the NYT's book top lists or whatever.

*tips fedora*

>>4306885
same except
>buy it
>it's fucking shit

>>4306914

>>4306914
lol, I dunno how anyone could hate it personally, but your free to your opinions.

My favorite part of the game was Golden Saucer, battle arena. I would have liked it for that alone

>>4306330
>babies first 3d RPG.
>marketing, trailers were CGI-fest without any turn base gameplay so 90's normies fell for the trap thinking the whole game would look like that.

>>4306927
What great 3D rpg's were you and your friends playing before FFVII?

Dont go googling 3D rpg's that came out before it to make yourself look neato

>>4306927
The whole game does look very nice actually

>>4306908
The main thing is that people echochamber stuff coming out today, like capeshit.

This game is 20 years old and is discussed as much as Zelda and MGS from back then.

>>4306441
playing in the 90's when we didn't even knew or cared about anime and shit doesn't make it any less weeb. FF7 oozes weebness.

>>4306508
so even back then games were still sold based on ''muh graphics''.

>>4306726
an average game with high production values that came at the right time.

>>4306937
>the main thing is that people echochamber stuff coming out today
And I hope you realize you're writing this in a retro videogame board that is a huge circlejerk and echochamber for stuff that came out up to three decades ago.
Whether it came out twenty years ago or yesterday makes no difference, see Star Wars or whatever big IP you want, people still talk about the epic of Gilgamesh after thousands of years after all.

>>4306943
Back then "muh graphics" Actually meant something because it was the difference between cardboard figures and some actually identifiable leap.

Today they try to get everyone's dick hard by showing you how many pores you can see as if that matters because they don't know how to sell a game on its merit and prefer not to make one based on merits.

>>4306330
actual old fag here. it looked good and had the brand name. honestly think th 7 thing added a bit of a cool element. psx was newish too so it was good timing (people wanted a great rpg). i remember renting tobal 5 or whatever the fuck just for the demo disc the day it came out. up to this point the only really ok 3d rpgs were kingsfield i think. sure you can name otherones but i mean shit that was on the shelf at blockbuster video you autistic faggots

>>4306330
Marketing and exposure. The odds were with FFVII honestly. It was on the best selling console of that generation, appealed to the growing interest in "edgy" works, and was a pretty good game to boot.

Today though I don't think it deserves that title though honestly. It is a decent game but not THE jrpg. For ps1 I would say BoFIV is the best jrpg on the console, that game has aged amazingly despite being near 20 years old now.

>>4306978
>For ps1 I would say BoFIV is the best jrpg on the console
On what grounds?

because breath of fire, lunar and grandia are shit

I think one thing most people tend to forget is FFVII isn't like most rpgs of the time period, or even todays time period.

The materia system let you make combinations of your spells, create more through experience, boost stats, etc.

It was fucking amazing playing with materia and I wish more games utilized unique shit like that.

>>4306330
>>4306330
>>4306330
Because it was good as shit and it stuck with people
goddamn its good

>>4306986
>I think one thing most people tend to forget is FFVII isn't like most rpgs of the time period, or even todays time period.
I really hope this is satire.

>>4306990
Which games have the materia system in 1997, and 2017?

>>4306978
lmao

The best JRPG of its gen was Final Fantasy IX

Even if we go with some kind of 'only sprites' rule then BoFIV is still worse than, say, SaGa Frontier 2

>>4306991
The materia "system" is literally a generic slot system like the thing they did with Espers in FFVI and countless other games like LoH's orbments.
There is nothing that makes FFVII stand out in technical terms, it is as cookie cutter as you can get, only stuff like Beyond the Beyond is below that.
>>4306993
>BoFIV is still worse than, say, SaGa Frontier 2
There is an abyss between the sprite art of BoFIV and SaGa Frontier 2, and I say this as a big SaGa fan, but the sprites for BoFIV are leagues above those of SF2, SF2 might look better all around due to the gorgeous backgrounds, but the sprites themselves aren't really that good, and the animations are even worse compared to BoFIV's crazy smooth and detailed animations.

>>4306982
''muh childhood'', same applies to FF7 fags.

>>4306982
I feel like it personally just is the overall most high quality jrpg on the system. Just my personal opinion.
>>4306993
Eh, FFIX is a good game but it always felt too slow in my opinion. I have heard that the newer steam version makes it move faster so maybe that helps.

The one thing I will swear by is BoFIV being the best looking ps1 game, it is fucking gorgous.

>>4307001
Have you ever actually played FFVII mate?
You don't just stick materia in a slot and thats it. You can combine them with 3 + other materia and get different results from each.


Cookie cutter my ass

>>4306993
Stop liking 9
It isn't good

>>4306414
>sold a million in Europe which hadn't had a FF game before

This, so much. No Crono Trigger. Word that Americans had played FF's 1 through 3. No idea what the game was even going to be.

Honestly I think the intro on its own is the key thing. Like every, EVERY kid who played the first half hour I was goddamn obsessed the next day. We'd all seen FMVs already. Other games were pulling that. But a seamless cut from FMV into gameplay, that presentation style, and it just being a great intro sequence, that made a word of mouth avalanche.

>>4307074
>people believe this

>>4306952
Yeah? And Star Wars and the Epic of Gilgamesh are great. Are you saying they're not? And I wouldn't say /vr/ is a big echochamber concerning this game since there is a divisive set of opinions even in this thread. So what's your point?

>>4306335
This. The game had a 100 million dollar marketing budget.

>>4307086
Holy shit I forgot about that. That seemless cut from FMV to gameplay was fucking perfect. It was also a little weird to have a bunch of cubes pop out after such a good introduction but it didn't bother me.

>>4306330
In Europe it was the first FF we got.

>>4307124
They couldn't take 10 mil and put it into the localization though?

>>4307124
Lmao the development and marketing budget was 80 mil you moron

>>4307146
Wrong. It was 145m and 100m of that was spent on marketing. Fucking google it.

>>4307154
I did you fucking mongoloid. Maybe you should hustle as hard as you hate and you won't sound like a dumb ass.

>>4307161
No, you clearly didn't. Literally the first fucking result backs me up. $45m development budget, $100m marketing budget.

What made ff7 a hit? Just a list of points from my humble opinion

>Large budget
>Action packed beginning
>3D RPG, a relatively new thing for it's time
>Swearing in a console game gave it a fair bit of shock value, felt "realistic"
>Beginning pacing through the entirety of Midgar was well done; hooked newcomers of the genre with relative ease, didn't feel like a traditional grindy jrpg
>Game was simple enough, but the materia system gave a large amount of depth and customization, as well as incentive to grind to go against some of the toughest end game content
>Plot twists: the disc 1 twist along with the unreliable narrator made things interesting and worth an additional playthrough for people to pick up on some of the 'inconsistencies'
>Minigames were mostly well done, rewarding in game, and challenging but not overly difficult
>Music and FMVs were popular, square did well on both accounts

I'd say the main gripes I have about the game were more about the second disc and how generally crazy the game became after Jenova-DEATH, but by then a vast majority of the playerbase were already hooked in and invested into the game so the fumbles were mostly overlooked

>>4307179
Fucking kill yourself you moron.

Tomoyuki Takechi
President and chief executive officer, Square

We used about $40 million [approximately $61 million in 2017, accounting for inflation] for the game’s development. We probably spent $10 million of that just on the computers.

Tomoyuki Takechi
President and chief executive officer, Square Just in the North American market, we probably spent more than $20 million on marketing. … Including Europe, probably $30 million. … Including Japan, probably $40 million.

https://www.polygon.com/a/final-fantasy-7

Maybe don't believe the first thing you hear you waterhead.

>>4307185
>Action packed beginning
>Turn based

>>4307187
Why do you call him a moron, dumbass, moron in every post.

Calm down faglord

>>4307191
Was referring to the story

>>4307192
>>4307179
>>4307154
samefag

>>4306335
>tfw modern games spend more money on marketing than on making the games actually good

>>4306681
Agreed, the backgrounds had pretty spectacular angles

that kid who picked tifa

>>4306330
ff2 and 3 were huge selling points for the snes

here comes ff7
every channel
every magazine
highlighted in many strat guides in the back
mall had posters, cutouts, etc
three fucking d graphics
tifa tits

and materia system was easy to grasp and manipulate to break the game
tifa tits
slap fight
oh god

must replay

>>4306335
Partially true. FF7 was marketed like mad at the time, I think it was the first specific game I ever saw commercials on TV for. Prior to that, if there were video game stuff showing up, it was usually to push a console.

I think what let it be pushed so hard in marketing was that it was an RPG that hit right at a new era in console games. We were moving up from sprite based 2D consoles in the form of the Sega Genesis and the Super Nintendo to 3D for the masses. FMVs could fit on CDs and play back video and high quality audio which added to the "wow" factor for a lot of people. CDs themselves were seen as "futuristic" compared to cartridges, as especially back then peoples' perception was that we were going to keep moving to tinier and tinier compact discs that would hold more data.

The game itself pulled players in with the CG opening FMV, the artstyle similar to anime, which at the time was just starting to rise in popularity in the US. It immediately placed players in the action both from a story and a gameplay perspective, plopping you in the middle of invading a public power plant storywise and having you fight off armed guards not more than 10 seconds after gaining control. From there, the sense of urgency only escalates while you continue to work your way to the reactor core, set the bomb, fight off the robo scorpion, and then attempt to escape while a time ticks down in big numbers on your screen. All of that within the first 30 minutes or so of starting up the game, which leaves a lasting impression on the player.

Pretty much all of Midgar after that was done in a similar fashion, slowing down at some points but still keeping the player on their toes and engaged even in safe areas by building tension on what you're doing next (Sector 7's return -> attack on the next reactor, arrival at the church -> mysterious strangers who give off bad vibes and pursue you), and culminates on an assault on the HQ of the most powerful corp on the planet.

it was the call of duty of the late 90's
it attracted all sorts of people
one of first toureee deee rpg on console

This game was amazing at the time but it was honestly more like a playable graphic novel to me than anything else. Especially playing it these days.

>played it my whole life since i was 6
>loved it
>beaten it multiple times
>did all the achievements
>now downloaded new mods for it

Idk why but i just love it.

>>4306330
man it really sucks that square forgot ff7 was anime inspired and are heading down the shitty path they are with the remake. i dont even like anime.

>>4306927
>underage detected

I think it's the 4 cds.
Wasting so much time on a game must have hit a nerve.

>>4308790
ff7 was 3 cds and the last cd is just the final boss and dungeon

>>4308790
>underage detected

>>4306330
It was huge in Europe, with tons of magazine covers and ecstatic previews. Between FMVs, CGI, being part of a series we only knew from import reviews, the buzz was real.

Console RPGs were a niche genre until then, with mostly English-only released on SMS/MD or a select few translated for the SNES. At this time, we didn't get any Final Fantasy (not counting FF Legend being SaGa) , Chrono Trigger or Earthbound.

So, as the Playstation was becoming more and more popular, everyone and their dog was playing FFVII, talking about the game during high-school breaks. It was the first RPG for a lot of my fellow students so the nostalgia factor is still strong.

>>4307086
>avalanche

>>4307007
Damn that looks good. From the interface to the smoothness of literally everything.

>>4306993
SaGa Frontier 2 is one of my favorite games of all time and because of that I would unfortunately have to disagree with that assessment.

Both games are extremely beautiful, SaGa Frontier 2 may very well be one of the prettiest games on the PS1 next to Legend of Mana. IF we only accounted for backgrounds. SaGa Frontier 2 has gorgeous backgrounds that help make the world incredibly vibrant and are pleasing to the eyes. However the sprite work of BoFIV is no contest some of the best if not the best on the system. They're fluid the motion of attacks are great, the abilities are all identifiable by on screen motions and the characters are different. Thinks like impact received pops out.

That said the best JRPG of it's gen was not FFIX. You may like FFIX and that's absolutely fine. But it has it's own set of faults, the same of the rest of the PS1 RPGs. It is not some sure win when other games have various highs and lows that are all either as good or better.

>>4306993
Ff9s battles are slow as molasses and plays like clunky dog shit

It's just genuinely a high profile game that pushes the limits of the hardware. Nothing like it came out before it. That's why it's so highly regarded. I just recently beaten it and I can honestly really understand the appeal. Even though it's slow as moleasses in the story department and the battles could be faster in my opinion.

The story itself isn't anything that impressive. I don't give a shit about 9 or so characters. They don't feel as fleshed out as say a Final Fantasy 13. Long story short. Modern FF games have great directing and truly feel innovative. They also push the fucking hardware. People shitting on FF15 requiring 100gigs need to fuck off and realize they're the ones that hold the industry back.

Maybe it's just me but the timing of the game's release and the rise of anime popularity in the West helped. I know I was drawn to the game like a moth because of the art style and at the time I was on a diet of nothing but Dragon Ball, Sailor Moon and Sci-Fi channel saturday afternoon anime movies.

>>4310173
>Sci-Fi channel saturday afternoon anime movies.
Are there even that many animated feature lenghts?

>>4310072
Ff9 really doesnt hold well anymore especially for our ADD society. Ill give it another run but even 8 is more fun to me right now.

>>4306335
This. The game was pretty good overall but was neither original nor innovative.

>>4306993
FF9 was slow as fuck and honestly wasn't that great overall. Grandia, BoF3, Suikoden 2, Legend of Dragoon and Legaia are all better.

>>4310205
>it's the society that's wrong
>not the games being slower than need be
I rather watch paint dry than play a game artifically pad out

>>4310208
>>This. The game was pretty good overall but was neither original nor innovative.
What games that came out before then where of this scale? What games used fmvs this way? How can you claim FF7 isn't innovative?

>DUDE FF7 WASNT INNOVATIVE GUYS, /v/ TOLD ME SO!

You need to go back

>>4310190
>Are there even that many animated feature lenghts?
Yeah there's quite a bit out there.

>>4310208
FF7 was innovatine for its time. The fmvs and an epic story feel. I guess final fantasy 6 (3) had similar stuff but that was in 2D and not as many people played it. FF7 also had a god tier soundtrack and just the right difficulty curve for the casual player.

I still mod it from time to time..i need to get involved in the community so i can improve/help the game.

For gameplay problems my only complaint is that they dont tell you all of the effects of the materia. I guess you're supposed to figure them out yourself and experiment with the status scren but still.

Also the magic is virtually useless besides cure but even than once you get w-item you just use megalixers.

Im playing a new threat might record a lets play of it. I beat the first boss amd its legit great so far. I played it sort of with my "perfect" file i did clean. With most characters lvl 99 amd all materia mastered and he seems to have put a lot of effort into it.

Idk

>>4310220
I'm all ears. Name them

>>4310227
>>Also the magic is virtually useless besides cure
Defense is useful. Regen is useful. Haste is the opposite of useful.

>>4310239
Cure/restore same thing. You get regen with restore.

Defense really isnt that important and even than you just used mighty guard. I replayed it recently and maybe it was because i was leveled up i really didnt have any challenges. Anger/ungermax and meteorain clears out the whole game with hyper.

>>4310245
>mighty guard
Is less useful than normal barrier because it drains faster

>>4310232
>I'm all ears. Name them
Not trying to be rude, but google? Unless you got something specific you want to see like drama, cyberpunk, fantasy etc. I could try and recommend.

>>4310281
I'm not asking for reccs. I'm simply curious as to what movies you're talking about because I'm simply not aware of such movies existing.

>>4310296
japan releases feature length animated movies yearly, studio ghibli is one of the most notable. plus there's like 100s of classic disney movies dating back to the 50s... you live under a rock my man?

>>4310309
>disney movies
Not japanese as far as I'm concerned
>ghibli
That's literally just one studio. A very sterile commercial studio that has not created a single product worth preserving at that. So you can literally only name a single studio. As suspected.

>>4310330
lol you didn't specify japanese, you acted like you were ignorant of there being any animated movies period. there's studios other than ghibli, I'm not going to be your personal google search.

>>4310336
>you didn't specify Japanese
Not him but that's implied when you mention Anime. What kind of mental gymnastics are you even trying to pull here.

>>4310354
idk I thought I was just talking to an autist that was living in a cave, there's plenty of those on 4chan.

>>4310336
>there's studios other than Ghibli
And this is where you are wrong. Japan doesn't into animated feature lengths. Their entire movie industry is pretty lacking come to think of it.

>>4310419
you're being an over dramatic idiot, there's plenty.

>>4310430
Nice ad hominem. Totally made me re-consider my argument. But after careful reconsideration I have concluded it to still be a righteous one.

>>4306330
I think it's because it's a lot of people's 1st rpg, and they were young when they played it, so they're nostalgic about it. Childhood nostalgia is one hell of a drug. I think that's why a lot of people get defensive about it. Also it's mostly a very specific age group, people who's first console was PS1. Because I'm a little older and PS1 wasn't my fist console and FF7 wasn't my first rpg, I don't have the same nostalgia for it that these younger millennials have have for it.

>>4306978
I'd say Suikoden 2 is the best PS1 rpg.

>>4306469
No what made PS1 win over N64 was:
>easier to develop for
>dev kits were super cheap
Because of these 2 things a lot of studios hopped onboard the PS1 train.
>games cost less
>affordable

>>4310256
I still dont even use barrier/mighty barrier and all my characters use hyper which is supposed to lower defense.

But even if you're right literally two magic materia out of 15/20 or so very bad. In the beginning of the game they are usefulish. The basic elemental ones like fire thunder ice.

>>4310464
I have a feeling DEMO DISCS were a huge part of its success also.

Imagine playing a demo of Superman 64.

I see that game everywhere, so many children got scammed for 60.00+ dollars

>>4308312

>>4310469
Dunno bout you but I used them plenty along with enemy skills and summons. I didn't grind though and rushed pretty much to the end so it might be that

>>4306936
good party taste

>>4310601
>putting the woman abuser with sweet aeris

fucking cruel, she has such a short life, she doesn't need CID's bullshit

>>4310545
Maybe after i do a run of this modded version ill do a low level run. I really need to start enjoying other games ._. Or learn how to mod ti create my own challenges.

>>4310330

Your posts in this thread are some of the lowest effort trolling attempts I've ever seen. The guy barely responded and you still jumped down his throat when he half-heartedly gave your dumb ass a studio. No-one is stupid enough to believe you don't know what anime films are, not even here.

>>4310436
your argument that japan doen't have animated films is factually wrong.

>>4310509
>Tiffen plz

>>4310720
Facts aren't trolling.

>>4310720
If the guy wants to admit to being a know-nothing dipshit, let him.

>>4306330
Final Fantasy was already a major name because of FF6, and FF7 marketed to hell and back with high resolution renders and shit. The FMV was also high quality for the time.

>>4306330
>Why is this game the jrpg 'King'?
It isn't.

>>4310208
Legend of Dragoon is overrated, don't get me wrong, its a perfectly respectable game and I enjoyed playing it, but saying that its better than FF9 is a hot take opinion, because it could be REALLY fucking mediocre at times, while FF9 was generally consistently great throughout, though I do admit I found FF8 a more replayable game due to FF9s plodding pace.

on the flip I find legaia underrated and is on par with the PS1 FF games imo, it gets points for not being an insultingly easy game, as well

>>4306330
FF7 actually tries to do a lot of things and does a number well. No other jRPG is good enough to even remotely compete in sheer VALUE FF7 represents. And i hate it vehemently.

>>4311428
>literally who game

Yeah all the weebs back in the day were cosplaying as Edge an not Sephiroth/Cloud

FF7 was a landmark in production value. The cutscene's were a bit thing, people talked about them, stuff like that was new. It was very long, being the first multi-disc JRPG anyone cared about.

The materia system is still one of the best forms of character development ever done offering tons of experimentation in way that is very intuitive.

>>4311546
Materia is le_cookie_cutter ;^)

>>4311514
Have you ever heard "pop culture"?
There you go. There is a great reason why is shit. And why quality isn't much appreciated.
And if you actually knew people who cosplay FF Saiven characters, I'm afraid you and they should be castrated. Just in case.

>>4311546
>The materia system is still one of the best forms of character development ever done

Let's not get crazy here skipper. The materia system is nice and fun but "best" is really stretching it.

>>4311623
Give me 7 systems better than materia.

>>4311637
This is all subjective but:
Front Mission (take your pick)
Suikoden 3's skill system
Class and skill slotting in the LUCT remake
deck building in Lost Kingdom 2
and Baten Kaitos Origins for that matter
Wild Arms 2 (unless you don't counter that) in which case
Wild Arms 3 gun skills and summons
Grandia 3 and up, which let you kit and strategize so well that you could do bosses without taking a single hit.
Tales of the World
This probably won't count for you but:
Bahamut Lagoon
SMT
If we're going on impact in game:
Dark Alliance/Untold Legends
Godhand

and damn it there was another game I wanted to include but I can't seem to remember it.

Anyways this is in a vacuum. Naturally as these conversations go you'll invalidate a bunch of my examples and that's fine. But this is without even mentioning alternative ways to influence player power such as PE's gun customization (which is not better than Materia), or Star Ocean's crafting.

>>4311623
I don't think it's very deep, but what materia does better than basically any other system around is letting you just play around with it. It's a game where you can restart from a savepoint with a tent and completely reconfigure your party just because you picked up e.g. a Nailbat. There's always light restrictions in terms of slots available and stat/limit break differences - but only enough to make you have the odd second thought. Should I really make Vincent a 255% ACC crit-machine for the next hour? Is that wrong? What the hell. Now who gets Cure3?

>>4311696
Stopped reading at front mission.
literally paper,rock,scizzors: the game

>>4311724
No part of the gameplay has anything to do with customization. Don't be obstinate. I specifically said take your pick so you could choose between 3 or 5 without listing the series twice.

>>4311721
Oh no it's absolutely an amazingly fun system. I like it a lot. And much like junctioning, once you've played through a few times you can really game the hell out of the system. But unlike junctions you can't outright break the game 2 hours in. I was really just doubling down that calling anything "the best" probably wouldn't be ideal since there are many things that are debatably """better""". That's the point.

The people calling it cookie cutter are idiots though.

Final Fantasy VII succeeded where other games had before in moving towards a mainstream audience. It did so for a number of reasons. First, it was accessible, and action-packed story that threw you right into the plot from square one. Second, it starred a singular protagonist, a strong man with a brooding past, which is immediately relatable and interesting for most male audiences. Third, the game was marketed well. Even as a young child, I remember a number of commercials that had my friends and I talking about it. And finally, and perhaps most strongly, Final Fantasy VII was perhaps the largest example of Square moving towards cutting-edge graphics CG to draw audiences into the story. One of the reasons that people were going nuts about the PSX over the N64 was because of the crazy big games with FMV and CG, and FFVII was all of that.

>>4311750
I watched a lot of tv as a kid and never saw any advertisements for the game at all.

>>4311765
I saw them every once in awhile. The tagline "If he fails, you can always hit the reset button," has been stuck in my head since.

Popular brand name
Huge amount of marketing
Deceptive advertising (video intermissions passed off as gameplay, movie-length ending, etc.)

>>4312753
>movie-length ending

Sephiroths Supernova spell IS movie length

>>4311750
Didn't hurt that it also had good mechanics

>>4312816
>mechanics
We arent fixing cars here

>>4312820
Yes we are

>>4306330
Baby's first JRPG.
/thread

>>4312824
I unironically enjoyed XV; the dungeon design was incredibly underrated

>>4312843
>le entry level=bad maymay

>>4312845
> was incredibly underrated
Only one dungeon was non standard. The rest were one way affairs with dead ends/drops and leavers. 5th gen RPGs crush XV's dungeon design.

>>4312854
True as that is, XV's design crushed 6th and 7th gen. The secret dungeon in particular (which had no reason at all to be secret) was a blast.

>>4312859
7th gen sure but 6th gen heavens no. You had the dungeon design of Wild Arms 3, Baten Kaitos, Eternal Ring, Lost Kingdom 2, Shadow Tower Abyss. Even DDS was above quality. It's just the later half of 6th gen had shit all for dungeons. Okage, Shadow Hearts 2, Star Ocean 3. Literal straight way Dungeons. So actually I guess I somewhat agree with you.

But yes the puzzle dungeon was indeed one of the best dungeons I've ever dealt with. They did a good job with it. It was surprising given the rest of the game's layout.

>>4312868
>Okage, Shadow Hearts 2, Star Ocean 3. Literal straight way Dungeons.
In hindsight FFX was also guilty as fuck with this, though it wasn't as obvious as it was in FFXIII, cloisters aside.

>But yes the puzzle dungeon was indeed one of the best dungeons I've ever dealt with. They did a good job with it. It was surprising given the rest of the game's layout.

You can tell it was probably designed earlier in development. Its layout (and some of the others) had probably been on the drawing board back when it was Versus.

>>4306335
This. Well known franchise, big marketing project, lots of sponsorship, etc. FF7 was the best RPG of all times even before it was released.

>>4306330
The death of Aeris/Aerith.

>>4311696
How is bahamot lagoon better? It has an average combat system.

>>4314649
He was talking about customization. BL's system is pretty basic in it's dragon rearing (hence it's placement in the "you probably won't count this) but it is indeed one of the more... less straightforward systems in RPGs when it comes to something like that

>>4311134
That's not what I said.

>>4311165
Why are you so afraid of actually refuting anything I've said? This talking about me in third person is just weak

>>4311546
The cutscenes were so weird. Too bad it didn't mean anything in the end but it was truly kino if I may misuse that word. It had this unsettling feel to them.

>>4311726
okay. I pick SMT. The negotiation system is one of the worst things come up with in videogames. Random fusion elements too are pretty shitty.

Hi, I was 8 when FF7 came out. Let me tell you why the other kids and I liked it.

>exciting battle music
>Sephiroth seems badass
>cool you get to play as this big buff mean black dude
>and this weird talking lion
>and this audacious prick who swears all the time, and a vampire but not a gay one
>and the girls are hot
>pre-rendered backgrounds look good
>Cloud looks cool
>flashy limit breaks

Now, were many of these things actually cool? Maybe not, but the overarching theme here is "personality." You remember all of it. They got something right in the design. Cait Sith was always stupid, though.

>>4314804
1) The take your pick was next to front mission to be specifically applied to the front mission series for the reason I explained in the post you're replying to.
>I specifically said take your pick so you could choose between 3 or 5 without listing the series twice.

2) The negotiation system is a matter of your opinion and that opinion has no bearing on demon fusion and party composition which quite literally is near limitless in its application to the actual game. This isn't debatable.

Lastly the negotiation is not one of the worst things to come up in videogames. The stupid MAG system was.

>>4315062
>RNG beyond the player's control being good gameplay design is a matter of opinion
Nah

>>4315068
>if I can't 100% control a system it's bad
This is you. And I refuse to engage further in this.

>>4315071
Nice strawman

>>4315073
That's not a strawman.
My statement
>>4315071
>if I can't 100% control a system it's bad

Your post
>>4314804
>Random fusion elements too are pretty shitty.

You're playing catch the fallacy with me in some sort of odd attempt to win some argument instead of actually debating games. And your only point of contention is the element of randomness prevalent in every RNG in some shape or form to varying extremes.

>>4315078
It is in that case. I have no issue with it in something like smb3 where the treasure boxes contain something at random and still give you a choice

>>4315083
Except the element of randomness has always existed in RPGs. Your statement implies that because demon fusion has an element of randomness, it's shit. It's the same arguement somebody has when they're new to tabletop and they just want to pick and choose their stat modifiers instead of running a dice roll.

The "opinion" of it being good or bad is just that, an opinion. There is no absolute fact like you tried to imply with this post >>4315068 and videogame designers seem to agree because the element of randomness is the one supposedly archaic system that remains intact to this day.

>>4315092
Again. Read this part of my comment
>it is in that case
I'm not complaining about what you're pretending I am.

>>4312847
I didn't say it was bad, I said it was the majority of people's first JRPG experience so they're going to hold it in higher regard than anything else.

It's definitely not great, though...pretty good, sure, but it's kind of a basic bitch RPG that doesn't really do anything outside of the standard formula...Parasite Eve was the better version of FF7 but not as many people played that.

THAT muthafuckah off in the distance. Standing tall and challenging you to git gud at it's games so you can get access to most of the best shit in the game in one place. Can YOU get a Gold Chocobo?
*Dun dun dun dunnn, dun, dun, DUN d-dunnnnnn*

>>4306943
It's always been like that.

>>4315068
Negotiation isn't RNG, something like DQ5 recruitment is. You don't see people moaning about that either.

Modern games try to please everyone by including as many game mechanics as possible. FF7 did something similar with its story. It has romance, comedy, action, drama, horror, spirituality, existential dread, and a little bit of porn, and it pulls all these things off without coming across as schizophrenic. The protagonists are likable and the antagonists are memorably evil. It's just a crowd-pleasing story, and not much else in the PS1 era hit that balance.

>>4311570
>dismisses something just because pop culture
FF7 at least feels original. Does Panzer Dragoon? Honestly tell me.

>>4318069

Panzer Dragoon is extremely fucking original, have you looked at the dragon/character/world designs?

>>4318084
I haven't. Hence my asking. Looking at it a bit better it seems like a shitty jrpg based on a bland railshooter. You know things need to look good?

>>4318087

Panzer Dragoon crafts a beautiful Persian and Macedonian-influenced fantasy setting full of creatures that look halfway between organic and synthetic, clearly influenced by the works of Moebius, but with a style and flair all its own.

I'm not saying FFVII isn't original aesthetically, but to say Panzer Dragoon isn't, is retarded

>>4318092
Panzer Dragoon looks like absolute shit. FF7 pushed all the fucking limits. Pop culture 1-0

>>4318094
>I have no argument

k

>>4318105
My argument is literally right fucking there buddy