/vr/ - Retro Games

>>4301864
>ALT+arrows is strafe
= this is stupid, no retarded so your game engine has the technological capacity to have separate keys to strafe however you decided to add this strange method where its impossible to turn around and strafe at the same time.

Who uses this? Did you? Are you still?

Here is how I see it.
Hand on WASD (or TFGH whatever) A strafe left D strafe right arrows turn left and turn right and look up and down (I'm creating a mechanism for keyboard control only! No mouse, remember the limitations back in the day.)

I bind fire to SPACE because you will be hitting it all the time.

W is Jump and S is crouch.

Or you can copy modern WASD and make UP/DOWN arrow jump/crouch.

In what world is A for jump sensible?
How do you locate your hands in this impossible position, remembering that ,. are strafe left/right????

So without the ability to strafe and turn at the same time will the game not be x10 harder then it is?
Did you play it like this back in the day?
Was your hand moving franticly on the keyboard switching between shooting and strafing or trying to add a jump for this?

Oh how I love to see a lets play of (duke 3D; blood; doom) where there is a camera on the keyboard all the time during game play.
Explain this to me /vr/

PS:
Is there a way to assign mouse buttons in the steam version of blood?
it seams impossible to assign ALT-fire to right mouse button.
Yes I know that its detected by default however running by pressing right mouse button is useless.
While shoot on left mouse button is perfect.

>>4301864
romaro himself used mouse and keyboard

>>4301928
Witch strafe on PERIOD and DOT ????!!!!

>>4301864
>1) Where you a adult/ young adult when you played these games for the first time.
Those games are rated 18+ so obviously I was an adult.
>2)How did you control these games back in the day?
Default controls
>3)Did you change the controls into something else or did you play on the default ones?
Same question as 2).
>4) Do you think the default controls are smart or stupid or what?
They worked great in old FPS since you didn't have to aim up or down manually.
>5) How do you control these games today?
Default controls obviously
>6) what is your opinion on the default controls of duke; blood; doom and the like?
Same question as 4).

>>4301960
Thanks for the response.
>Default controls
So how is strafing using PERIOD and DOT?

Or do you not use strafe?
Would you mind uploading a lets play where there is a camera on the keyboard so that everyone can see how you move your hand from arrows to PERIOD and DOT.

How do you even use human hands to operate these buttons efectivley?

Default controls are the best with autoaim on. Fuck wasd.

>>4301968
You either play with keyboard only in which case you use ALT to strafe and you don't touch PERIOD and DOT. This was also the only way to play the really old games like the Catacomb series.

Or you play with keyboard+mouse. In this control scheme you do use period and dot (with the thumb of your left hand) to strafe left and right. It will not cause any problems since you don't need the arrow keys, ctrl or alt anymore.

>>4301960
Those games are rated 18+
Hold on for a second.
Did he originals in the 90s have a rating?

I think they predated the rating system and where simply not rated.
I did go to PEGI and they literally state that
http://www.pegi.info
anything before 2003 is not rated.
I'm checking
http://www.esrb.org
now.

Post the box with the rating on it or I don't believe you.

PEGI and ESRB fail to give a rating to
Doom2
Blood
Duke 3D

Link to the rating or I doubt it exists.
Of course they might not have included it in their website however I don't remember the boxes having any rating.

>>4301984
Quake was advertised as 18+ at least.

>>4301983
Now this is a solution.
>with the thumb of your left hand
Why?
Why not use 2 separate fingers?

Also did you not think back in the day
>Wish I can press these:
>Use item
>Interact
>Jump
>crouch
>Keys

Also where you not or are you not thinking that a WASD like setup is far superior?
How do you move back and forward?
Do you use the clunky doom style mouse movement or do you hold right mouse to move forwards constantly?
If YES how do you move backwards?

This looks clunky and I'm surprised the strafe and move back and forwards buttons are not next to another to be comfortable for humans in something like WASD.

>>4301864
>page up and page down look up and down
>home button returns you to where the camera was originally because page up and page down are too fast to ever stop correctly

>>4301996
I was talking about
Doom 1 +2
Blood
Duke 3D
Shadow warrior
redneck rampage

Also your advert is
1) Looks like a joke about the whole family with the picture
2) The rating system looks nothing like any rating system I have ever seen
3) Also this looks like a German advert, so do you have a link to their rating system website for:

Doom 1 +2
Blood
Duke 3D
Shadow warrior
redneck rampage

And Quack of course.

>>4301864
I prefer to play Doom with the Project Brutality mod and a Logitech F310 gamepad. I map the controls to that fucker and I'm good to go

>>4301984

>>4301864
I played Doom shareware by scooting the mouse around and no strafing. Later I used WASD (or ESDF, with something mapped to A for my pinky), and held down shift by placing a D-cell battery in my keyboard to always run.

I tried playing Blood for the first time just this last weekend, if you have a decent mouselook confit plz pastebin because those fucking rats are killing me. Also it looks like I suck too hard even for default difficulty.

>>4302017
Thanks.
Is this ESRB?

Why don't they have it on their website?
PS: do you have the same for doom2 and blood?

>>4302040
It's from the BBFC (British Board of Film Classification).

Every country used it's own age system before things like PEGI were created.

>>4302028
>because those fucking rats are killing me
Press I for mouse look.
For the steam version it looks clunky however its manageable,
The mother fucking rats are a nightmare and the worst enemy I use dynamite on them because I don't want to fuck around with them.

Also how the fuck are you not killing them by walking over them?
Video game logic right here folks!

>>4302040
Here are american and european boxes for Blood and Doom 2.

>>4302046
Unless you live in Poland, because
>What you are like a little baby, you think that because you can brutally kill and rape humans in this game its for adults?
>Na, computer games are for children and I don't give a shit how many woman you rape-
murder in them!
>Look at little baby playing its computer games.
>Do something adult like.

>>4302054
Interesting.
Why don't they have it on their website?
I'm not saying these boxes are fake however... where they to lazy to copy the rating into their website?

Or can someone show me the ESRB web page that shows these ratings?

>>4301864
Im left handed mouse has shoot and open doors
right hand is arrow keys CTRL, strafe, use, dive, etc and the rest on the numpad

get good

>>4302046
Am I bad that I think Duke 3D and blood to be ages 3+ and the majority of bloody games today to be rated 0 years old?
Meaning I give it to my kids.

The only thing I would say is 15+ are actual horror games so screamers and other things that will give them nightmares.
Also anything actually sex related, however the majority of 18+ games have no sex or its a blink it and you miss it screen is going to black
>pay prostitute screan gous black and you have -$100 in your pocket
or even only implications that a kid will misunderstand.
>look Kratos likes to batch with naked woman


Well I'm a Polak and the fact that my parents gave me every mature game like they are toys with this
>>4302070
attitude....
Do you think it changed me?
Or are these rating systems maned by oversensitive crybabies?

Or is it genetic to us Polaks?

>>4302092
Can you post your actual key binding setup?
I like to see what key has what use.

>1) Where you a adult/ young adult when you played these games for the first time.
I played Doom and Redneck Rampage at a young age, 4 or 5.

>2)How did you control these games back in the day?
At the time, i didnt feel like i had a issue because I was a little kid and didnt have a understanding of real 3D to compare it to.

>3)Did you change the controls into something else or did you play on the default ones?
doubt it. probably tried it with a joystick too. I remember Doom exclusively with the keyboard, not sure if I used mouselook in Redneck rampage or not.

4) Do you think the default controls are smart or stupid or what?

5) How do you control these games today?
WASD bmouse

6) what is your opinion on the default controls of duke; blood; doom and the like?
I loved Doom's default keyboard controls, it made the shitty AI actually challenging to a kid that didn't even know what strafe ment.

>>4302096
Here is my setup for Steam blood:
WSAD+space = standard
CRTL = crouch
Q = previous weapon (I can not map scroll wheel)
E = next weapon (I can not map scroll wheel)
R = USE
F = ALT-shoot (I can not map right mouse button)

I also use the mouse only I can not get ALT-shoot, any idea how to map it?
Post yours.

I'm OP.
>>4302112
> young age, 4 or 5.
Same here, I wanted to ask the actual adults who played it.
> i didnt feel like i had a issu
Same probably diffident understand a thing and only turned and walked forward with no idea of strafing, I remember having fun in duke. The interactions and shooting monsters entertained me the most I think.

>it made the shitty AI actually challenging to a kid that didn't even know what strafe ment.
Same.
only I was thinking are we making these games easier and where they designed to have shit controls and we are now playing on ultra easy mode because we improved the controls ?

>>4301864
Playing those games I was fifteen through seventeen. In my circle, we all used keyboard only with the basic doom controls. Alt to strafe, CTRL to fire, arrow keys to move etc. That carried on through Duke, Shadow Warrior, Blood and others.

At the time we found the idea of using the mouse to play absurd because our only experience with the idea came from enabling it and finding that it was used for forward and backward movement as well as turning. In our youth we thought that was all there was to it and for a long time were were baffled by stories of people who played with the mouse and would laugh about trying to get down a hallway by thrusting the mouse forward over and over again resulting in a series of bizarre lunges.

Even looking up and down was a seldom used novelty to us in those games; still we got through them fine enough.

The only game that vexed us was Hexen. At length one of my friends developed a wild system of keyboard control for that game. It did not use the mouse at all and instead required unique hand placement. From memory forward and backward were something like E and O and and looking up and down, jumping, magic, weapon changes and item use were all sitting perfectly under one finger or another. It was extremely strange, but some of us played with it for a while until it stuck. They completed the game that way and to this day they can still re-adapt to the 'Hexen Controls' on nights when they feel nostalgic.

That's how we controled our games back then.

>>4301864
>I like someone to show me a photo or video how a players hands are supposed to look when operating a keyboard on these controls

>>4302227
That's the method. Fits like a glove even after all these years.

>>4301864
>I needed to rework them into a modern way

For me it's the opposite. I can't fucking stand modern FPS controls. I can barely even handle using a mouse to this day. I have no idea how anyone can handle left and right being strafing instead of turning. It's so fucking counterintuitive. There's no reason your entire body should pivot when you move your gun. It's unnatural and doesn't make any sense.

>>4301864
1) Where you a adult/ young adult when you played these games for the first time.
little kid
2)How did you control these games back in the day?
with a keyboard exclusively if possible; definitely used a mouse for Duke because that shit's nearly impossible without one
3)Did you change the controls into something else or did you play on the default ones?
default
4) Do you think the default controls are smart or stupid or what?
better than modern shit
5) How do you control these games today?
as old school as possible
6) what is your opinion on the default controls of duke; blood; doom and the like?
they're mostly fine, could be better, not sure how though

>>4301864
>1) Where you a adult/ young adult when you played these games for the first time.
little kid
>2)How did you control these games back in the day?
with a keyboard exclusively if possible; definitely used a mouse for Duke because that shit's nearly impossible without one
>3)Did you change the controls into something else or did you play on the default ones?
default
>4) Do you think the default controls are smart or stupid or what?
better than modern shit
>5) How do you control these games today?
as old school as possible
>6) what is your opinion on the default controls of duke; blood; doom and the like?
they're mostly fine, could be better, not sure how though

>>4302204
Thank you a lot for this answer I love the insight you are giving.
>was used for forward and backward movement as well as turning.
True the forward and back on the mouse look stupid.
However is the turning with the mouse not super fast? Where you not interested with this idea?
Also was the mouse not a generic joystick type where it was intended to be used with a joystick that gave constant movement in one direction?

>Even looking up and down was a seldom used novelty to us in those games; still we got through them fine enough.
I understand this and know the reason.
Doom is actually 2D there is no true up or down everything is flat.
You shooting up is not auto aim its the fact that all the raised monsters are a illusion of the game engine that tries to show something that is not wolfenstein 3D. However under the tricks doom functions like wolf 3D.

I have no idea about duke and build engine however I think the devs added auto aim because they did not want people rage quiting with a unfamiliar 3D idea.

There is no real up or down in these classic 2.5D games.


Did you use strafe back in the day?
Did you strafe and turn at the same time?

I also love for you to show how your controls exactly look in the style of >>4302118

What was your awakening moment to the mouse?
Did you switch to modern standard WASD+mouse?
Is this modern system making old games ultra easy?
Where they more hard in the past do to the controls?

How did you play them?
Is the modern circle strafe and turn while shooting or strafe while aiming and shooting to easy or something you never did back in the day?

>long time were were baffled by stories of people who played with the mouse and would laugh about trying to get down a hallway by thrusting the mouse forward over and over again resulting in a series of bizarre lunges.
Where the tournament players or whoever starting to use the mouse and what where their setups?
From who did you hear about this control mechanism?

>>4302227
Thank you so much.

The only thing that would make this perfect is if you recorded the screen and put it into one video so that everyone can see your reaction time to game events.

Also is the cramped left hand not a little uncomfortable?
I personally used a modified arrow setup(arrows are strafe left/right and back and forward; right mouse is jump left is shoot and CTRL, Shift,NUM_0, NUM_1 are used for other things) until 2003 when i was forced to use WASD and realized how comfortable it is.

Is my proposed setup not better?
Also do you prefer playing with no mouse? Why?
The main downside here is that you home and end keys are so far away, have you considerer remapping your arrows to the numpad?

Look I made you a graphic for it use 5123 like WASD and you have 78946 to do whatever you do with HOME END PAGE UP/DOWN only they are closer to you.
Also you can map shit to NUM_0 and the arrows (not movement) to operate with your thumb. Your pinkey finger can also pres enter so naturally.
Think about using it.

>>4302268
Whaaat?
>I can barely even handle using a mouse to this day
Really?
Maybe its because if I was a kid and played these games I think I always used a mouse from the start.
Also i don't remember if I ever used something else then strafe left and right on the keyboard.

>I have no idea how anyone can handle left and right being strafing instead of turning.
Whaaat? I don't even?
Modern control are on WASD or ESDF if you are fancy.
No one is touching the arrow keys. I don't even know what you are saying.

>It's so fucking counterintuitive
I don't see it this way. Step left or step right ultra intuitive want to talk about counter intuitive get something like QWER for movement
Q= Forward
E=Back
E=Strafe left
R=strafe right

Also I'm of the opinion that regardless how counter intuitive it is if its effective then its worth learning.
From my experience get duke 3D with that one update that gave improved graphics and 3D models and play on WASD to get the feel.
Its a safe environment to practice and you feel how comfortable it is to have your hand on WASD and the mouse is perfect.

>>4302276
> definitely used a mouse for Duke because that shit's nearly impossible without one
This might explain why i see no problem with the mouse since duke 3D was my first game that I played the shit out of and remember always using the mouse.

I first played Chex Quest at 5 years old and Doom shortly after. I used default keyboard controls but I never strafed. I was always playing with cheats so it didn't matter too much.

When I was 14 I discovered Zdaemon and other source ports. I played keyboard only, but with A&D for strafing. Right hand on the arrow keys. Left pinky on CTRL, left ring on shift, left middle on A and left index on D. That made circle strafing possible without a mouse.

>>4302098
Sure I'll send a post when I get home from work

i posted this in another thread, but for games with shitty/no mouselook i do this:
>turn off Y axis movement for the mouse
>bind look up to R
>bind look down to V
>bind center to F
the rest is WASD

>>4301864
1 I was 7 when Doom came out and I got the sharware disks...I still have them.

2 I used the defaults but used iddqd and didn't have to worry about moving fast and never strafed or even knew how to do it.

3 Answered with 2.

4 They were always shit but you had to account for the fact that the mouse wasn't used for games yet.

5 WASD and mouse look like any other FPS.

6 They're shit...even newer games like AVP in 99 still had ass backwards control schemes that needed to be completely changed if you didn't have god mode on.

rmb=+fwd Doom master race here.

I broke my brain finally to use normal controls but it always fucked with people in Quake who expected wasd dodging.

>>4301864
>>,. are strafe left and right
Yeah nah. The default controls were designed around using ALT as a strafe modifier, so you could only turn or strafe not both at once. It is this reason that the default controls were kind of poor. Nonetheless I did use CLOSE to the defaults in most games (anybody who didn't at least look at the keybind menu is a fool.) at one point before moving to mouse+keyboard around 1996. Took me a while after that to adopt WASD.

>6) what is your opinion on the default controls of duke; blood;
A to jump and Z to duck worked okay for default keyboard controls Perfectly playable but far from optimal.
Again, you never used dedicated strafe keys with the default controls.

>>4303621
>Yeah nah. The default controls were designed around using ALT as a strafe modifier, so you could only turn or strafe not both at once.
I was suspecting this.

>I did use CLOSE to the defaults in most games
Can you describe what you used?

>anybody who didn't at least look at the keybind menu is a fool.
??? Can you elaborate on this I failed to understand.

> before moving to mouse+keyboard around 1996
What was the adoption of the mouse like?

> It is this reason that the default controls were kind of poor
How do you control these games today?
are we now playing on ultra easy mode because we improved the controls ?

>>4303593
>I broke my brain finally to use normal controls but it always fucked with people in Quake who expected wasd dodging.

How? What are you even saying?
In like people tried to play Quake on your computer and got fucked by your control system?
Or what?

I got into FPS games around Quake 2/Half-Life. By that time mouselook was pretty much standard and I never felt the need to explore the keyboard up/down/center buttons. They still exist in Quake 3, IIRC. Can't imagine myself playing like that, though, all that extra time from changing your grip would be quite detrimental to one's aim and safety. Everyone would fuck you up in DM, lol.

My standard controls are WASD for forward/backward/strafing + Space for jumping + E for use + Ctrl for crouching. In fast paced games with a large weapon selection like Duke 3D I also usually remap weapons 5 to 9 to ZXCVF so that I can quickly switch to a certain weapon without stopping moving.

When playing in DOSBox I use BMOUSE or DeHacked patches to fix that dual axis Build bug. But I usually use a source port for raw mouse input.

Back a day the 2nd standard control scheme for DN3D was keyboard+joystick.

That is because DN3D has a glitch: you gain a speed boost of about 20% when you're strafing and running at the same time, but that speed boost is there all the time when using a joystick. Therefore it became standard especially for multiplayer.

Most people would use joystick + arrows, and use keys around the arrows for other things. This is very, very close to WASD+Mouse

So... ditching mouse is the new retro meme?

"If you're not playing your games at 320x200 on a 13" CRT monitor and a 486 machine running MS-DOS 5.0 with keyboard only controls, then fuck off back to /v/ where you belong."

>>4301864
>1) Where you a adult/ young adult when you played these games for the first time.
Doom and Duke at about 15, Blood came out when I was 16.
>2)How did you control these games back in the day?
Usually with a controller. 4-button SNES style at first, and later a Playstation-style controller that could be assigned keyboard functions. I never really liked using just the keyboard, but I could do it in a pinch. Mouse seemed out of the question at the time for reasons stated by >>4302204
>3)Did you change the controls into something else or did you play on the default ones?
I believe I left the keyboard defaults, but my preferred controller setup was (in terms of SNES buttons): Y = shoot, X = interact, B = strafe, A = run. For Duke and Blood, I assigned looking up and down, crouching, and jumping to the shoulder buttons. Come to think of it, I ended up having the Mighty Foot set to a shoulder button, maybe leaving crouch to the keyboard when needed.
>4) Do you think the default controls are smart or stupid or what?
Eh, it just was the best they could come up with at the time.
>5) How do you control these games today?
WASD + mouse (actually a trackball), or Steam Controller.
>6) what is your opinion on the default controls of duke; blood; doom and the like?
I'd never be completely comfortable using just the keyboard, so I can't say they're significantly better or worse than they could be.

>>4303939
That looks a bit like a dildo NGL.

>>4303997
Yes.

>>4303997
It's actually useful because some old ass dos fpes don't allow mouse look like exhumed/power slave or in pursuit of greed

>>4304207
I played Exhumed/Powerslave recently and it has a fan made patch that fixes mouse filtering (basically the same bug that BMOUSE works around), always on mouselook, always run, always strafe, so it controls like EDuke32 pretty much, you can circle strafe etc.

Please shill this patch some more, it's really a game changer.

https://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/PowerSlave#EX_.2F_PS_DeHacker

>>4304215
Forgot to mention in the other thread, you have to be very careful when using this patch.

Powerslave was designed without the possibility to strafe and run at the same time... and strafe running gives a speed boost of about 20%, which in turn gives you longer jumps. Therefore, it is possible to sequence break in almost every single stage as the game is designed with the regular jump limit, sometimes you can even jump straight to the exit.

tl;dr don't strafe run jump

>>4301864
Well when I was like 7 when I played star wars dark forces, but I mostly got lost on the maps. I definitely didn't know how to strafe because I only learned that you could do that when I tryed to pick it up a few years ago.

It's weird because I had major problems trying to play it as an adult, but I managed to play as a dumb kid. The game isn't easy either, so I guess I just sort of learned it with out previous bias for mouse look.

>>4302098
Which game? The only game I struggle with left handed is Duke3D because theres so many controls to map (holoduke, inventory, diving, etc)

for doom its
Mouse - left fire right open doors middle jump(sometimes)
Keyboard
arrow key - move
Numpad0 - jump
Shift - use/open
ctrl-fire
\ key - map display
/ key - crouch

i have long fingers so maybe that helps

>>4301864
There was vertical auto aim, so you didn't need a mouse at all, until you got into playing deathmatch with mouse players. But that wasn't for years. I had no concept of circle strafing. I would strafe and then return to my original position to fire. I played with the keyboard. Right hand on arrow keys to move. Left hand on Ctrl, Shift, Space, and the numbers. Default bindings. Duke had basically the same controls. I used an IBM model M2 and I did kick myself eventually for throwing it out when new membrane keyboards came out.

>>4304615
and Alt of course to strafe. My keyboard was this exact version, and to this day I consider it the best gaming keyboard there was. Windows and menu keys are nothing but clutter to mess you up.

>>4304247
>strafe running gives a speed boost of about 20%
Isn't it the case in other Build games?

Anyway, turns out that patch got another update the last month. It now adds support for all Build resolutions, up to 1600x1200. The game runs fullspeed at 1024x768 for me and looks better than ever. Protip: type LOBOXY to see your frame rate.

Also the patch now restores the 3rd person view (Alt+C) shortcut (turns out there's a digitized sprite of some dude in tourist gear lol) and various dummied out cheat codes.

Somebody make a thread for Powerslave already.

>>4301864
1) Preteen and Teen
2) Differently. I used basically the standard arrow keys for Doom, for Duke I used the numpad 8456 movement with 7/9 look up and down, 0 reset view. Down arrow button for something, probably jumping. Forgot what right arrow was for and +-*/ probably items. Also used asdf for shooting and other mechanics, space to open. I did alright for myself on cases ladder. But it was nowhere near as good as I could be now.
3) sort of answered in the previous.
4) They were bad compared to what I used today.
5) I modified those duke controls so FASD is my movement since I got used to that configuration and mouse on the other hand.
6) you already asked that.

>= WTF! No seriously I like someone to show me a photo or video how a players hands are supposed to look when operating a keyboard on these controls.

There are two alts. One on the left and the right.
If you put your fingers over arrows keys on the right and lay your fingers over shift/ctrl/alt with the other hand and space that gets basic functionality. It ain't pretty but it'll work for basic usage.

>>4302416
Not that guy but I didn't even start using the mouse for FPS until at least 1997 really. I'm pretty fairly proficient for aiming these days.

>>4306240

>>4306241
hacks

>>4304405
JESUS Christ!
WTF!
is this a optical illusion how can you make your hand touch all these buttons?

I'm trying and my hand starts to hurt and feel like I'm about to split my hand in half.

Back to the subject of controls, arrows suck balls because you see all this wasted spade on top of them and you see all this space under your hand where the keyboard ends?

Try this:
WASD = movement
TAB = map display (is this not the default?)
space = jump
And here are more fantastical buttons ready to use and bind to all the things you want
CTRL = crouch or you put crouch on B or N (you can move your thumb from the space bar to this key essay)
Q
E
F
And
Z
C
R
X

Secure you can put holoduke somewhere on there.
how about this:
Q = previous weapon
E= next weapon
Z= previous item
C = next item
F= Use item
X = Interact (I don't thin there is ever a situation where you need to interact while fighting enemies contrary to the fact that sometimes you need to use a item during a fight)

>>4301996
>tfw centenarian and trying out this new fangled light box magic machine|
>box tells me I can't play it

>>4306409
I told you i have long hands bro between my thumb and pinky i can reach past an octiave on a piano

pic related isnt me but its what I can do

>>4304405
>doom
>jump

>>4302367
>However is the turning with the mouse not super fast? Where you not interested with this idea?
>Also was the mouse not a generic joystick type where it was intended to be used with a joystick that gave constant movement in one direction?

Turn speed was never a concern for us. It just didn't enter our thought process becasue we never used mouse control for more than a few swipes. As to joysticks, well, none of us had one save for the one fellow who was into flight sims and space games. We mocked him for not just using the keyboard like a real PC user but now we have to admit he was right all along, just like the mouse advocates were.

>Did you use strafe back in the day?
>Did you strafe and turn at the same time?

Yes to both. You would be amazed how fast and accurate you can be at both of these with just the keyboard. Even circle strafing was second nature and even arguable better since you never had to reset your mouse position while circling.

>What was your awakening moment to the mouse?
>Did you switch to modern standard WASD+mouse?
>Is this modern system making old games ultra easy?
>Where they more hard in the past do to the controls?

Mouse control did not come into play for us until Quake 2. I know it seems absurd, but we played Quake 1 with the same keyboard controls we always did. It never became a problem because quake didn't really take off amongst us - if we used a mouse it might have!
After that it was WASD+mouse for modern games, but we would always go back to pure keyboard for the classics.
It's difficult to say if the modern system makes games easier because I have only used it in classic games that are modded to accept such inputs without hassle. I can't really say the game is any easier with these controls. The gameplay challenges are the same and the movement limitations are the same (except were new stuff has been modded in which I ignore for the most part). So the only advantage is turning speed which never (CONT)

>not playing doom with a mouse with novert
mein gott

>>4307831
You know the original Doom shipped with mouse support, you don't have to play a source port to use one.

>>4302367
>>4307821
(CONT) Ahem, never really comes up in Doom. You just don't have to be precise or fast to be effective.
I don;t think games of the past were more difficult to control. Remember, full keyboard was the default control scheme. You could install Doom or Duke and lay your hands on the keyboard and be good to go.

>Is the modern circle strafe and turn while shooting or strafe while aiming and shooting to easy or something you never did back in the day?

To elaborate on the above, we didn't do the -modern- circle strafe. We did the digital variant which has advantages and disadvantages. One interesting quirk is that it would always be a perfect circle - or at least a predictable shape. We mastered this shape. We could walk into a room and know immediately if there was enough space to complete the circle. In deathmatch, we could never do it because we all knew the sweep of the circle and just were someone would be as they came around.

>Where the tournament players or whoever starting to use the mouse and what where their setups?
>From who did you hear about this control mechanism?

We only played locally or over the modem with each other. We were a fairly closed group so we didn't get exposed to some of the more advanced ideas. Sometimes we would play with other lads from other circles over the modem and only these days do I realise that they were probably using mouse controls. No wonder they were so hard to beat!

>>4307838
You know that is what I'm talking about... playing original doom with the novert TSR in DOS?

Wow, kids. Wow. Educate yourselves.

>>4307841
>To elaborate on the above, we didn't do the -modern- circle strafe.
Most people didn't. Some people did. The better players amongst the Doom crowd did. You can even find it multiplayer dem files from the era. It's harder to find but it's there. Just like how the main demos for Doom are actually done with a mouse as well. No keyboard only movement lets you move like that.

>>4308104
Aye, I'm aware of that now. We had no idea back then in our little group. We'd read in magazines about circle strafing and just assumed what we knew of was what they meant. It was a great time to play the game, in the hot era of multiplayer before it started to get weirdly anti-social in a lot of ways.

>>4307858
No, you're obviously talking about source ports because novert doesn't exist in the original software because Doom doesn't have any vertical aim.

If you are aren't trolling and actually are trying to talk about DOS Doom, you might be referring to disabling mouse forwards and backwards movement back when everyone used their mouse like it was a joystick.

Either way, go fuck yourself, you stupid twat.

>>4303939
I used to know a guy who played Quake with a joystick and a mouse.

ok /vr/

since we're talking about old fps' control schemes, I might as well ask for help

I've set up a dosbox+blood+bmouse..
everything is working fine (mouse aiming, sensitivity, inverted db default Y axis)
i've rebinded all keys to my liking, using the builtin dos-based setup.exe

i assigned fire,altfire,open to mouse1,Mouse2,Mouse3 respectively

so... WHY THE FUCK WHEN I LEFT-CLICK IN GAME, I JUMP INSTEAD OF SHOOTING?!?!

>>4308903
Check two things:
1) most of the times you can bind 2 keys to the same action
2) check the mouse settings too

go to setup.exe, not the in game setup

>>4308921
done everything, always by using the dos-based setyp.exe

here's my BLOOD.CFG
https://pastebin.com/y2XLDRuw

>>4309015
Why is it set to keyboard+external rather than keyboard+mouse ?

>>4309023
afaik it is supposed to be that way if you are using bmouse as a launcher/wrapper for the blood executable

leaving it to keyboard+mouse let the bindings work as they are supposed to.. but the mouse aiming works only on the x axis

>>4303859
>Can you describe what you used?
Sorry, I don't really remember the exact settings I used. Movement was all defaults, I think I used A to jump and Z to duck in Build engine games as well as possibly Hexen. I rebound the look keys to be consistant between Duke/Blood and Heretic/Hexen which had different look controls by default. I think pageup/down to aim was what I used.

Later when playing Quake with the keyboard, before adopting mouse control, I think I used A and Z to aim up and down and actually got fairly proficient with it I don't remember how I centred my view.

>What was the adoption of the mouse like?
Pretty awkward at first. I liked it because of the turning speed and accuracy but I used a terrible config that crippled my ability. I still used ALT to strafe at first with mouse2 to move forward.

>How do you control these games today?
With a pretty standard WASD layout plus a lot of quick weapon keybinds, for instance Shift is my rocket launcher key, CTRL is super shotgun, etc.
>are we now playing on ultra easy mode because we improved the controls ?
I don't really think using the same tools we had then more efficiently is really equivilent to difficulty settings. We're just a lot better at the games now. Learning to use controllers better is a part of getting good.

>>4309035
i've finally managed to fix this by deleting the cfg file and let the setup program create a new one
my guess is that the bindings should be listed within the file following the right order
my old cfg had some lines removed and and a different sorting

In all my dos first person shooters, I always use a little program called novert. It just disables forward and backwards on the mouse, so its not walking while you're trying to turn. Big help in Doom and Duke

>>4301864
>1) Where you a adult/ young adult when you played these games for the first time.
I was about 8 the first time I played Doom, 11 the first time I played Blood
>2)How did you control these games back in the day?
Keyboard only
>3)Did you change the controls into something else or did you play on the default ones?
I used Doom's default controls. I changed all the other games' controls to an equivalent of Doom's defaults via setup.exe, although they were very similar anyway (control to shoot, hold alt to strafe, fullstop and period to strafe without alt, etc). They were different in places of course, like in Doom iirc you used space to open the door while in BUILD I had space to jump.
>4) Do you think the default controls are smart or stupid or what?
I thought Doom's and Duke's keyboard only defaults were very good, didn't know any better at the time that you could use mouse. It wasn't until Half Life that I used KBM for the first time. I remember I had this one friend as a kid that was using mouse with Quake and I looked at him all weird. He was like, "this is how id software play the game!" Funny thing was he didn't even have +mlook on and was moving forwards and backwards with the mouse, kek.
>5) How do you control these games today?
Standard ESDF KBM controls of course, guns etc mapped conveniently around the keys.
>6) what is your opinion on the default controls of duke; blood; doom and the like?
Like I said Doom is good. I think Duke's and SW's were good, too, maybe iirc Blood was a little strange? But anyway I honestly don't know why this is a problem for you. Even as a kid I had no problems changing them in setup.exe (or even the in-game menu in Blood) so this was never an issue.