/vr/ - Retro Games

Okay. Thanks for sharing.

I personally didn't care as much for Tales of Sword Coast, but I was engrossed with Fallout 1.

It used to be okay, but only because we didn't get anything better at the time: nowadays we get amazing games like Dragon Age and Fallout 4 to leave the old stuff to dust.

Baldur's Gate and its peers are just hopelessly outdated now, with their clumsy mechanics and poorly written slog of a plot and characters.

>>4294324
stop

>>4294324
you're trying too hard, you'd need to be WAY MORE subtle next time

>>4294398
I wanted to bring up Witcher 3 at first but decided against it because it actually is a genuinely good game.

You're actually right, OP. I tried Baldur's Gate recently and came out with the same thoughts. Which is a shame, because I wanted to enjoy it and already was enjoying going back to other older RPGs.

>>4294606
It's a subtle kind of bait

>>4292790
People like Baldur's Gate because of the second game OP, it's much more open and not focuses around low level D&D battles. I never liked bg1 much either.

Also if you see Bioware on the cover and expect a good story, lol.

>>4294324
Quality.

>>4292790
Just play what you like. I hated Planescape Torment because the detail was meticulous to the point of being boring, and I didn't care for the combat. You might still like D&D and Final Fantasy is completely different.

OP sounds like he's trolling. Could be young. I'll post this for the elucidation of the greater audience. I say let's throw him a bone.

These old games are unafraid of fail states. Bad ones. Anyone can get gibbed--that's that. No more banter. I don't think OP got as far as experiencing inter-party banter.

The game is wide fucking open. There's a more or less intended path. If you don't vaguely stick to it, you'll fight monsters you have no business fighting. It would be nice if people town warned you. When I played the game, I had no idea how D&D works, so I had to learn to really enjoy myself.

But if a game doesn't have a complex ruleset, there's no possibility for discovery and mastery. Then again, a lot of complex rulesets are bendable, if not breakable. Pretty sure you can get through BG1 with a nigh invincible party if you know what you're doing. You really have to know what you're doing though.

I wish the game had denser encounters. I suppose that's why Icewind Dale has a special place in my heart. Perhaps BG would've been better if it simplified the combat or suppressed RPing. You can't have everything.

It would've been nice if the game had more outcomes to combat than living or dying. This is where things like persuasion, the game noting your strength, or completed quests, might be interesting.

I'm happy how the game came out. I'm fine with flawed, eccentric design if the makes the experience interesting. I'm not bashful about using a guide. If a game is truly interesting, you won't want to use a guide.

I just beat Watcher's Keep in chapter 2 of SoA with SCS installed

the boss was pretty underwhelming, I'm honestly having a lot more trouble trying to clear the twisted rune

wow this is funny, I just started playing this game myself and its totally sucked me into its world

Im wondering how ive gone 22 years without finding it. The writing is amazing, the characters are very memorable - and the game itself doesn't take itself too seriously.

Which is weird, because I always thought I would hate party based cRPGs... in fact i'm going to go play it now - without any sort of "graphical" update mods or enhanced edition

I will say when I was 16/17 I tried this game and it bored me, so maybe try again once you can legally drink ;-)

The thing I like most about the first Baldur's Gate game is taking on enemies that are way out of your league using clever tactics. It gives a real feeling of satisfaction, like you've "hacked" the rules of the game. Of course you haven't, those kind of eventualities are programmed into the game. Like the first time you meet a couple of ogres, one blow from their club splatters your warrior on the first hit. But then you use your one casting of Grease on them and use your warrior to run round the grease patch in circles so the ogres keep changing direction and never walk off the grease puddle, keeping them bogged down while the rest of the party pelt them with arrows, and miraculously on the 2nd try you down them both and everyone goes up a level. You feel proud that you've done something unexpected rather than go round killing rats and gibberlings until you've levelled up a bit.

Baldur's Gate 2 is a much better game than the first, but doesn't quite give that same feeling of satisfaction because you have so many spells and overpowered abilities to choose from that pretty much from the word go any combat encounter can be tackled easily as long as you can rest beforehand, unless you impose artificiallimitations on yourself.

>>4295819

Hah, same here. Started the game a couple days ago, and I thought I would really hate the low-level D&D aspect of the early game, but I'm having lots of fun travelling with my party, fightings mobs, camping (and being ambushed during the night!), discovering new locales and talking to NPCs in towns, and most of all having to resort to clever tactics and always be on my toe when fighting tougher enemies.

Also I can't see how anyone could call the dialogue in this game boring, I'm having a lot of fun with the companion banter and quest dialogues.

>>4292890
>not liking Durlag's Tower
you_sicken_me.jpg

>>4296219
Man this is making want to play it again, I remember just being efficient and killing everything with damage spells while being sad that all the interesting stuff was barely worth picking. I had no idea grease was useful at all.

All I remember about BG2 is every late game fight starting off like DBZ with your team waiting around around patently until the wizards yelled enough buffs to hit SSJ2.

I like the low level d&d combat, except melee characters being unable to hit anything, all your characters dying in one hit, and ranged weapons being strangely ridiculous

>>4296219
>>4296732
I mostly just gave my assassin some boots of speed, then hid, backstabbed some enemy, ran away, and hid again once I was out of range. Then repeat.

>>4294708
>I wish the game had denser encounters. I suppose that's why Icewind Dale has a special place in my heart.
this
and this is what saves Siege of Dragonspear from being total shit. Forget about its crappy plot and garbage new characters: it's all about the combat. You'll be facing hordes of 20 orc warriors on the screen at once, backed up by a shaman buffing them. Just around the corner you'll fight 15 trolls and suddenly be flanked by 6 spirit trolls. You'll enter a very tiny spider cave where your characters are shoulder to shoulder unable to maneuverer while you're surrounded by 40 giant spiders, mostly sword and phase. You can fight a fucking adult green dragon and your party will barely be over level 10 assuming you have a full party of 6 up to that point. Even before then you'll have to deal with a lich who is immune to level 5 spells and oh by the way, the highest level of spells you can cast is level 5. Then by the time you hit the climax you will literally fight an entire company of mercenaries. Even with -10 AC, mirror image and stoneskin, there's so many fucking dudes on the screen they'll score critical hits and tear through your defenses. You won't be high enough level to use Protection from Magical Weapons and you can't use Protection from Normal Missiles because they mostly use +1 arrows or poison bolts.

Right now I'm going to plan a solo sorcerer run on insane difficulty; might post my planned spell progression here.

OP here

>>4294324
I agree, I'm playing Dragon Age Origins right, now that's what I call a real RPG.

I enjoy more DAO than any game you could mention, including their shitty secuels (DOA >>>> DOI >>>>>>>>>>>>> DO2), and the mods, man, thank the maker for all the MODS.

>>4294606
yep, witcher 3 is a great game. but I found the last battle and ending of wild hunt, well, how should I put it, little cold and simple. Now the DLC are clearly a superior matter, Hears of Stone && Blood and Wine are Top Tier.

>>4294629
rly, but the gameplay in BG2 is the same shit isn't, I was thinking when I was boring with BG1, I should stop and instead start with BG2, but I could even play more than 5 minutes cause, it looks like the BG1 with HD, same shitty in better pixels, fuck no.

>Bioware
Oh man, Dragon Age Origins is a cool story bro. I know the archdemon is not that top-boss bad ass enemy like I don't know, Sauron or Morgoth, but the Logain Arc and the story behind characters is cool enough for me yo.

>>4294682
what the fuck is suposed to mean that?

>>4294708
29 boy reporting you know. In my 90s I was a kid, I was deeply into games since Win95 man.

thanks for the honest answer, that's what a call a decent conversation between gamers.

Let me answer in other answer cause is interesting you POV.

If Baldur's Gate is too dated for you, do you get a seizure when playing an old-school blobber?
Don't be a child, these isometric RPGs are the easiest to get into. I guess you should just abandon the genre.

>>4294694
Actually I realized that I hate that kind of games, D&D style and JRPG are NOT what I thought it would be, is not my style, well I respect for all matter the taste for games, don't wanna get involve between a stupid taste-troll-meme-war.

Its just that I found that hype and cult about those games here, around Baldur's Gate, PlanetScape Torment and shit, I was really mad cause fuck no, fuck fuck sake how is suposed that people enjoy this shit? I found a book could be more interesting, I mean, you seriosly expect that I my "imagination" do the job?? what stupid argument to pretend is a great game cause the tons of lines about a bad guy that I could think is the fucking Medieval Akuma, but no, when I watch like a fucking cartoon in the screen.

>>4294615
thanks man, is good to know I'm not alone in this. You tried Dragon Age Origns?

>>4295813
even a fucking wolf is enough to kill my entire party cause the stupid gameplay, is so confusing and stupid that I couldn't be interested in this game, is a game cmon. Is suposed to be enjoyable.

>>4295819
well, I have to say I wish you the best, I found the characters deeply boring. same lines and writing over and over and over again.

>>4296219
tactics, you mean, SPACEBAR and click an ICON about a spell and wait if you are lucky about the dice if tells that fails again and again cause is trying to simulate D&D rules? you call that a hack? you expect to believe there's enough satisfaction beating a lesser enemy with clever tactics as you put it with those shitty animation or those confusing habilities?? I mean, in those times I can say even Prince Of Persia (Dos Version) had a waaaaay better animation than Baldur's gate man.

>>4296763
yeah sounds like shitty games like diablo, click click click...

/vr/ got me into great games again, but with BG, seriously, NO.

>>4296768
yeah you are right, is just all the hype around here, made me test it, and how I love DAO, the so named "spiritual succesor of BG", you know what I mean...

The only thing I found annoying about DAO is the difficult, is so fucking easy even in nightmare level.

hey now that you talk about genre, you think DAO is different, is not part of RPG genre?

>>4294708
all right sir, let me answer, you have some good points to discuss

>These old games are unafraid of fail states...
guess you are right, in terms of retro, I can't think a game like Baldur's Gate Style in terms of Party action, maybe is just I got more into games like Age Of Empires, different style, but share the microcontrol thing about characters, perhaps is not about party, but I think is not that wrong to say that an strategic game like AoE share some points like single player campaings about story telling and have more interesting characters, I know there's a huge diference between gameplay style, and that's my point, is waaaaaaay better AoC GamePlay.

>The game is wide fucking open. There's a more or less intended path...
Open? not for me, I found the same towns over and over again, I know that is the same in all games, but I didn't feel like you are saying, is just repetitive to point of nonsense, when I understand the D&D System, I was like, what the hell, seriously??

>But if a game doesn't have a complex ruleset...
didn't have the patience to keep it on and got my party to the top, not even a decent party.

>I wish the game had denser encounters...
don't know what you are talking about, never played Icewind Dale, and I'm not gonna, another Baldur is gonna made me so mad that I could kick my screen.

>It would've been nice if the game had more outcomes to combat than living or dying...
yeah, that's what I found more annoying, charisma and persuasion skills are useless, like all the 1000 spells and other skills like that.

>>4296763
Here's my solo sorcerer list

>Lv. 1: Chromatic Orb (1), Shield (1), Identify (3), Magic Missile (4), Spook (7)

>Lv. 2: Mirror Image (4), Resist Fear (5), Melf's Acid Arrow (7), Knock (9), Glitterdust (11)

>Lv. 3: Melf's Minute Meteors (6), Skull Trap (7), Remove Magic (9), Vampiric Touch (11), Slow (22)

>Lv. 4: Stoneskin (8), Improved Invisibility (9), Greater Malison (11), Fireshield (Blue) (13), Emotion: Helplessness (23)

>Lv. 5: Sunfire (10), Lower Resistance (11), Breach (13), Animate Dead (15), Spell Immunity (28)

>Lv. 6: Protection from Magical Weapons (12), Death Spell (13), True Sight (15), Improved Haste (21), Chain Lightning (30)

>Lv. 7: Finger of Death (14), Khelben's Warding Whip (15), Mordenkainen's Sword (17), Spell Sequencer (22), Power Word, Stun (30)

>Lv. 8: Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting (16), Pierce Shield (17), Spell Trigger (19), Simulacrum (23)

>Lv. 9: Time Stop (18), Chain Contingency (19), Wish (20), Shapechange (25)

continuing >>4296802

>>4294708
>I'm happy how the game came out. I'm fine with flawed, eccentric design if the makes the experience interesting. I'm not bashful about using a guide. If a game is truly interesting, you won't want to use a guide.
I agree about your sentence about a game, if you are into, you are gonna enjoy a game like is a real world, you got involved so deeply that you feel you are in the world, no need for a guide, you explore and discover the game, you enjoy it, and have some good times with the quests and stuff like that.

That's a truth with any game.

And I have to say that's why in first place I got that feeling of deception with Baldur's Gate.

>>4296782
Dear lord, how can you comment on BG's writing when you can't even write properly?

>>4296815
sorry, I'm not that good with english, you mind if we tried spanish?

>>4296828
How can you expect to enjoy writing if you are not proficient enough with the language it's written in?

>>4296830
there's difference about reading and writting, Could understand what I'm reading, is just that I don't know all the verbs, adjetives and the notion for the right past-present-future sense in english, that's only one of the reasons why certainly I have mistakes in my writing, but you got the idea.

I can go around and read, and got a clearly idea, specially if I'm with a good game with an insteresting story, is just I didn't like at all anything about Baldur's Gate. in 90s I can think in really cool story, great scripts, great characters.

In terms of script, for me, you could I'm an idiot, but I found more interesting reading about the tales in Age OF Empires I & II. Metal Gear Solid, Zelda A Link To The Past... Even Monkey Island has a better writing.

Well is just I wanted to try something different, and now, I regret it.

sry for my english anon, not my intention to confuse you, is just I can't handle a 110% of a Language that's different of my birth country.

>>4296840
Well ok, you don't like BG or other RPGs or whatever you're saying, but what you're doing here is simply a rant. That's nice that you share your opinion but you are objectively wrong, as many guys here pointed out. I may be wrong, but if I remember correctly BG was prime reason new life was infused into cRPGs in the '90s. It's a great title regardless of the fact that not everyone likes it. Many such cases...

Only problem I ever really had with BG was the pathing issues.

Also fuck you guys, Dragon Age: Origins is on par with the first BG. 9/10.

>>4296857
>pathing issues
go into the .ini file and set pathfinding search nodes to 40000
the devs intentionally lowered it to something like 23000 (whatever the hell these scores mean) because 40000 requires a WHOPPING 300MHZ CPU to take advantage of advanced pathing

>>4296870
I did that, I'm pretty sure. Didn't notice much difference, it was still pretty bad.

>>4296806
Save or die spells are terrible in my experience. Otherwise excellent picks.

>>4296732
>All I remember about BG2 is every late game fight starting off like DBZ with your team waiting around around patently until the wizards yelled enough buffs to hit SSJ2.
my sides

>>4296806
>no blur
>no spirit armor
>no cone of cold
>no pierce magic

Mods bring BG to its full potential. Fights like Venduris in the Rogue Re-balancing are just amazing.

This piece of shit was released a few years ago, it's not even retro but mods have a bobner for this garbage and so does theyre cronies, dont bother chief

about to try that twisted rune

>>4297304
Keldorn and Mazzy in the same party with Viconia and Edwin? Has modding gone too far?

>>4297339
the only conflict there is keldorn and viconia actually

this was a pretty fun fight

>>4297351
I don't get her often but isn't Mazzy Good? And while mechanically the game might not punish you for having a paladin and an evil wizard in the same party I can't think of a single good reason to replay BG2 save for muh RP. Guess it's just me.

>>4297367
I've actually never finished this game

Mazzy is good for me because I made her a cavalier and have her dual wielding long swords and bastard swords.

I'll drop Edwin for Imoen because I don't really need the headache of 3 mages, and I'm probably going to start using Jaheira or Minsc.

Viconia, Mazzy, Keldorn, Minsc, and Imoen would be a pretty good feeling party

Should I kick Xzar and Montaron for Xan?
I like Xzar but I heard they'll try to kill Khalid.

>>4297428
>I don't really need the headache of 3 mages
But two pure mages (or one pure and one dual) and a cleric/mage gives you enough spell slots to avoid resting after every fight that's tougher than a bunch of orks.

>Jaheira
As much as I like her as a character, her performance starts to go down at higher levels. Even having another multiclass doesn't offset that well enough. But if you want to save party slots at the cost of arcane spellcasters you're going to have enough muscle.

>Viconia, Mazzy, Keldorn, Minsc, and Imoen would be a pretty good feeling party
Keep track of your reputation, unless you modded that too.

>>4297443
>Keep track of your reputation, unless you modded that too.
I almost always play the SMT style of True Neutral which means I murder all fascists and megalomaniacs. Reputation stays happily right at the middle.

>>4296782
>You tried Dragon Age Origns?
I did. I have the opinion that Bioware got better with time up to about 2010 but that's not /vr/ so it's not worth talking about further.

w h e w

my Keldorn has like 200 kills and no other party member comes close. wtf are the other guys even doin

>>4297864
Is this EE? In original save vs. something worked on undead in certain cases too, they didn't simulate it with tons of damage.

>>4297882
>wtf are the other guys even doin

Toggle your AI scripts. The option is somewhere on the character status screen.

>>4297882
Near meaningless stat. They implemented a very simple system that doesn't count assists, and even then how do you count just buffs and debuffs alone? A party is a party. You can only gauge a member's effectiveness through staring at walls of to hit and damage rolls.

>>4296765
I'll be honest, I'm just trying to get you to play bg2 so that this gets stuck in your head for the rest of your life: http://www.youtuberepeater.com/watch?v=urunXKWr62o&s=11&e=18

>>4297884
Sunray actually does instantly kill undead if they fail saves, I have no idea why Lassal took over a thousand damage when every other vampire took damage in the 60-90s range

>>4298163
Probably some crutch to avoid making him undead mechanically. Perhaps he has to appear outside during what the game engine considers daytime for reasons.

>get book of infinite spells
>haha this joke item again
>turn page
>once per day level 7 spell turning on any character
wew lad

>>4297428
Main guy (wizard for me), Keldorn, Korgan, Viconia (yeah, they go to blows at times, but you can actually avoid it coming to that more often than not), Imoen and Edwin(occassionally exchanged with Minsc when I needed more front line meat) were my final party. Worked like a charm.

I tried to like Baldur's Gate, but my main gripe with it was that every battle is so fucking hard I'm save scumming so much that it sucks the fun out of it.

Fallout 1 I just play for a few hours and lose interest...it's just hard to play those old games when I cut my teeth on stuff like FFX and KOTOR...it's really hard to go any further back in Bioware's catalog than KOTOR for me.

Now Neverwinter Nights I enjoy...it's got the good qualities of Baldur's Gate but is nicer to look at and more forgiving in battles...would have been nice to have a party instead of AI co-op, but it's fine, I guess.

>>4292790
>, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

>>4299034
>I tried to like Baldur's Gate, but my main gripe with it was that every battle is so fucking hard I'm save scumming so much that it sucks the fun out of it.
You need to learn how D&D works and powergame then. The only reason BG1 might ever be hard for someone with IQ higher than Koko's is low HP and ranged weapons being OP but that's how it works in low-level tabletop, more or less.
Another minor but still annoying consequence of BG being an AD&D adaptation is your spellcasters shouldn't do much besides sprain their wrists lobbing bullets in regular encounters. Treat them like militaries treat their specialists - tools designed for specific jobs.
This is closely related to another typical mistake when playing D&D adaptations in general: your wizards aren't for just throwing fireballs left and right unless you _really_ know what you are doing and designed their "build" and the rest of the party around it. Their spells per day allotment is more often than not better spent on giving your warriors and backstabbers and/or archers that extra edge against a particularly big or well-protected "mini-boss". Which doesn't necessary mean buffing - debuffing can be just as powerful. You need to make a lot of educated guesses to succeed.

Second typical mistake those who started playing RPGs with railroaders like KotORs is not realizing when it's time to flee. Knowing how to pick your battles is one of the very few skills you must borrow from games like Diablo and the like.

OP, maybe Ultima would be more to your liking?

>>4292790
The second is the masterpiece. The first is a tech demo.

>>4299649
A lot of words more easily summed up by saying "lrn 2 skirmish scrub"

>>4301932
You're fiddling around with a tricycle when we're recommending a porsche.

>>4292790
I also didn't really like BG, although I did like BG2 much better. It was just so dissonant tone-wise. Here you are, chased out of your home by the EVIL MENACING FIGURE and there are PORTENTS OF DOOM. And right off the bat you're dragged into what actually is a very linear plot concerning the iron throne and their machinations. But if you want to spend a month in game wandering in the forest and beating up random monsters for loot and XP, there's no consequence. And it takes quite a while to scan the maps, especially if you want to eyeball strain looking for those hidden pixel bonus items like the ankheg armor in Nashkel or that ring of Wizardry outside the Friendly Arm Inn.

I found that it was about 15% interesting stuff interspersed with a lot of boring stuff or stuff where you're literally just wandering in a forest and nothing is happening. And you need to do that wandering if you want to be high enough level and have the right equipment to face the main plot.

The tone just never felt right to me. I think that the old Vogel Exile games do that sort of thing better, balancing the exploration aspect with the save the world aspect. And I mean, I see what they tried to do, but for me, they didn't hit the right notes.

>>4294324
I know this is a "troll" and everything, but there's some kind of point to be made here. The actual gameplay of these games is a lot better than their ancestors for the most part. I mean, Fallout 4's combat mechanics actually function like a first person shooter. Take the original Fallout games, their combat is a farce. They try to mimic the XCOM style strategy combat, but fail terribly because there's no actual strategy. The same with the DA games. Origins had the best combat, but even the later ones were more fun than the constant cycle of fighting and resting over and over and over in Baldur's Gate.

Of course, the problem is that as these modern RPG series make their combat better, the actualy RPG stuff gets worse. FO4 is the best example probably. For the first time in the entire series, the combat is actually somewhat enjoyable. But they basically ruined everything else in the game. There's fuck all dialogue options because they shoehorned in a voice actor for your character. And there's fuck all unique towns and settlements because they wanted to play at being minecraft and add a completely unnecessary and poorly executed base building mechanic instead.

I honestly wish that we could get more games with the spirt of the classic CRPGs but with actual good combat mechanics too.

>>4297304
>Viconia 202hp as an evil Ranger

>>4302003
:3c

>>4302018
No really though she has good voice clips for combat.

Also Ranger/Cleric isn't really better in anyway than Fighter/Mage/Cleric, if I had made her a F/M/C I probably could have done everything with just two characters taking advantage of spell immunity.

Because I haven't run into a single fucking thing yet that drills through Spell Trap+Spell Shield+Immunity: Abjuration, Bhaalspawn finishes every fight with max hp now without ever taking a hit, mages are too op, mage hybrids are just ridiculous.

Maybe next time I'll make the BS a F/M/C and Imoen a F/M/T and install the Imoen romance mod for maximum lulz

Hopefully there is no next time this game is such a time sink

>>4302030
I don't understand the appeal of "I could do everything with two characters! ...(if I mod the game to give them the abilities of several other characters)"

>>4302059
You can make as many custom characters as you want in this game without modding it anon. Modding it just lets me retain the character themselves and their dialogue and interactions.

>>4301947
Go with that reasoning to the logical conclusion and we might just revert to grunts and gestures and go back to living in caves. I'm not saying brevity is not a virtue, but your way of summing up results in an endless stream of "but how tho?"

>>4301980
Are you retarded? Like the born of incest sort of retardation? Git gud scrub.

>>4301980
>And you need to do that wandering if you want to be high enough level and have the right equipment to face the main plot.
1. Go to those magic school ruins or whatever they're called.
2. Farm vampiric wolves (everything respawns once you move far away from its spawning point and/or lose vision of it).
3...
4. meh

>>4302030
>the Imoen romance mod
IIRC it had pretty decent non-romance content last I checked (but it was a very long time ago). Since then a dedicated friendship-only mod was created so I wonder if that one would be a better choice.

I think BG is overrated and I prefer Icewind Dale.

It was hard for a new player to get situated. It's easy to die early on if you don't know where to go to get the right equipment and what enemy encounters to avoid.

Also the game came with 5 CDs that needed to be swapped constantly.

>>4292790
The game is a meme and utter shit.
Nobody bought it when it first came out and nobody wants to pay a significant sum for it on the retro market. Speaks volumes, really.

>>4302709
You a utter shit

>>4296806
You need ruby ray of reversal to dispel spell trap and spell immunity abjuration.

>>4302626
Full install, nigga.

>>4302626
I want to like Icewind Dale, but dozens of attempts at playing through it have all ended on the second level of Dragon's Eye. No matter what you do, they pinpoint your location by some bullshit psychic power and all swarm over you at once. It's basically impossible and not fun at all.

>>4303135
It has the downside of only dispelling one protection, just like Pierce Shield. If you really need to deal with enemy spellcasters you need Spellstrike, but Sorcerers probably can't afford to give up a whole 9th level slot to learn it.

Not OP. I don't really like Baldur's Gate either. I don't know why. I like D&D and I like the first 2 Fallouts, so in theory I would like Baldur's Gate, but even after 10 hours of playtime, I couldn't get into it.

>>4303135
Actually level 6 Pierce Magic will ignore Immunity:Abjuration and dispel it instead, so the only purpose of Ruby Ray is to strip the outermost layer of spell protection that's blocking something like sunray or finger of death without having to cast a second spell. Most of the time, casting Pierce Magic followed by Warding Whip is the most effective tactic without blowing through higher level spell slots.

>>4302437
Telling them how is the same as depriving them of fun.

>>4292790
A common mistake people make on isometric party-based CRPGs is that they think that you should have a party. In reality, it is far more fun to just play solo (the exception is Planescape: Torment). Having a party means you will either be underleveled or forced to grind, both of which are undesirable. On the other hand, if you play solo, you will be stronger than the encounters, you won't have to worry about mass pre-buffing, and you don't have to worry about dying because you have all the best equipment. I've only ever really bothered with the NPCs on my first playthroughs just to see their dialogue and quests, and it definitely wasn't worth it.

>>4292790
the worst part is it's nothing like d and d.

>>4303381
Actual DnD would never work on computer.

OP HERE, I just want to say something, or maybe add a question?

how is that Shadows Of Ann is better?? did they change something?? same awful and disgusting gameplay for me, same shitty technics than the first one.

>>4297653
totally agree, bro, at least thanks to this thread I'm replaying the best RPG ever, Dragon Age Origins, well at least Bioware learned very well, and is really awesome playing with MODS, oh man, there's a lot of improves man, and watching morrigan naked, ohhhhh man, is wonderful.

>>4296857
Dragon Age Origins is way, I mean way superior than Baldur's Gate 1, 2 or Any Game, retro or modern game, Now that's what I call a masterpiece.

>>4303379
>isometric party-based CRPGs
Actually I found most or RPG (from west o east,is the same to me) than most of quests are fucking dumb, not only retro, but modern like skyrim or even fallout, WoW o LoL, Diablo I know is not fair to put all of them in one single group, but those kind of games lack of serious interesting characters, and with that, maybe the 70% of each game is pure boredom.

>>4302709
>MFW thinking seriously, could be truth

So does the first one not have voice acting and the second one does?

>>4303390
unless you're just using a computer to voice chat with 6 other people

>>4303447
>>4303459
I get bored of DA:O halfway through. Always quit after killing loghain.

Love BG and IWD.

>>4303356
In theory. In reality they'll just drop the game. Attention span and willingness to commit isn't the same as it was 15-20 years ago, not to mention earlier.

>>4303542
What? There's voice acting in BG1 - one of the minor recurring bugs was that Minsc would not shut the fuck up when using his infamous "go for the eyes" battle cry.

>>4303920
Only a little bit though, not every line has voice acting.

>>4303739
>halfway through. Always quit after killing loghain.

That's not halfway, nigga, you were like 90 minutes from the end of the game.

>>4303923
That wasn't the question.

>>4303923
Neither it is in BG2. Higher percentage of lines are voiced and there's significantly more intra-party banter in general, but it's still not Mass Effect.

>>4302626
ID has best combat.
PT has best narrative.
BG has best mix of both.

We've all been over this a million times before.

>>4303379
>Giving up on npc bants just so you can powerlevel
I seriously hope you guys don't do this.

There's more than enough quests to level a party to max, and most are creative and open ended enough that you'll want to try them anyway.

>>4303447
In the first half hour or so of the first one you're a chosen one cliche in a drab boring town doing inane collect shit quests before you're railroaded into avenging your master. You do this by pelting everything with rocks.

In the first half hour or so of the second you wake up you wake up from your soul being ripped out in a steam punk dungeon with talking brains in jars, djinni with riddles, portals to different dimension, secret bedrooms with nymph concubines, and some sort of war between vampires and assassins. Then when you finally make it out some seemingly omnipotent wizards tear your party in half with the deadly serious warning that if you cast any magic within city limits they'll fuck your shit to hell. By the way did I mention is probably the most beautiful city you'll ever see?

Better writing. Better characters. Better combat. Better settings. Better themes.

>>4303390
This. The problem I have with most RPGs is that, despite the illusion of freedom I have, scripted computer games will never be as unlimited as a talented GM who can think on the fly. In many games of D&D and other tabletop RPGs I've played, if my fellow players didn't like the way our wonderful GM's plot was going, we could decide to do literally anything else and he could adjust on the fly. In one one off session, we were tasked with disrupting a cult in a port town, but we decided to leave and eventually we got tangled up in a pirate war that lasted for 4 consecutive sessions. Name me a game where you can do something like that.

>>4304146
This, solo is good only for second-third playthrough.

>>4304175
>scripted computer games will never be as unlimited as a talented GM who can think on the fly
This is not a problem, because all of the best, most enjoyable stories in the world are scripted. Tolkien wrote a massive, scripted campaign, just like GRRM and every other master fantasy and sci-fi writer.

Every single one of the best and most memorable campaign settings and adventures are "scripted", as is every good, enjoyable story in the world, whether it's movies, games, or books.

So, just throw that little complaint right out the window, because it simply laughable to think that Tolkien or anyone else could come up with a story as good as LoTR "on the fly". The best that could be done is a certain degree of flexibility within set story constraints, and that is the state of the best cRPGs.

>>4304296
You misunderstand the heart of my complaint. It isn't about good story telling, it's about flexibility. Sure, LOTR is a good story. But if I decide I don't like the way it's playing out, my only recourse is to simply stop reading. Same with RPGs. But if I'm in a campaign and I decide I don't like the way it's going, I can get the GM to completely change the way the story is going by making my character do something entirely different. The RPG is only limited by the collective imaginations of those playing it. Video game RPGs just can't compete

>>4304139
>We've all been over this a million times before.
>We
People come and people go. Most of those you've talked about this many times seems to have moved to other places or just plain died.

>>4304296
GRRM actually bases many of his plotlines on events from tabletop RPGs he has played with friends. So yes, if you cherry pick all the best parts of freeform play you can construct a compelling linear story.

>>4304168
sry what? I was playing like 5 hours of BG 1, I still could understand what's going on, really, it was like some stupid disney tale. Yeah I was like, run mufasa run, there goes the bad guy, oh he kill my daddy, I revenge him going to a fucking bar in tomorrowland where there's two morons waiting to change your fucking diapers...

I don't want to talk about BG 2, he was in prison, he got out cause, oh is a fucking miracle the bitch in the first game was in the fucking first place, but is awesome cause is BG.

>>4304175
that confirms it, never was into rolling dices, imagination my ass. For me, that was the fucking worst part of BG, trying to simulate that kind of system roll play, fucking dumb.

>>4304282
you expect to finish that agonizing, boring and overhyped pain in the ass?? got to be kidding...

>>4304296
you can't compare a game with literature, you could end talking bullshit like this guy >>4304927 and this guy >>4305021

>>4305008
or maybe are just retards

>>4305081
>I still could understand what's going on
sry, I mean that could NOT understand what the hell was going on

>>4304168
You just like higher level adventure more. Can't blame you, I'm the same way. Those who like BG1 more prefer wading trough endless forests filled with wolves, bears and bandits as opposed to demiplanes filled with liches and other highly magical bullshit.

>>4303886
Then them dropping the game is the correct thing that should happen.

>>4305089
I think it's more that you don't deserve to slay demons if you haven't even cut your teeth on thugs and hedge wizards yet

BG1 is like a beginners training course for DnD so you're not total shit by the time you get to BG2

>>4305107
It would make sense for someone unfamiliar with D&D in general, but otherwise the only thing that should matter is player's preferences. Unless you mean that the party should "earn" the right to go high-level adventuring.

>>4305140
>Unless you mean that the party should "earn" the right to go high-level adventuring.
if they didn't then they aren't really your party now are they

>>4305081
>"I dont like D&D or imagination and neither should you."
Okay, buddy.

>>4305469
oh my, hard to accept it right??

alright, D&D is imagination...alright.

>>4305081
>I was playing like 5 hours of BG 1, I still could understand what's going on, really, it was like some stupid disney tale.
That's what we're saying yo. Most of their the development time was spent on getting the engine down so scarcely had the resources for writing an engaging story. It still turned over a profit though so they were able to invest enormously on actually competent writers for the sequel.

>>4296806
no to simulacrum. use mislead instead.